This is a perfect summation of the “true” problem with southern hockey, it is the elitist additude that it doesn’t belong in the south. As long as these elitists continue to be close minded about the growth of their sport, all new or small market teams will be problematic in their eyes.

While hockey in Raliegh does indeed compete for the attention of the local populace with a number of other sports, it’s influence and popularity in the area continue to grow every day. I can understand from Mr. Tychkowsky’s view, living in an area where everyone is born and raised on hockey, it may seem that the south is no place for his country’s favored pasttime. I also find it funny that he decided to lump Raliegh in with Phoenix and LA, after all the great one himself chose Phoenix, and did well in LA. And perhaps he’s forgotten that 2 of the last 4 Stanley cups came out of Florida and Carolina. Unfortunately, I think the heart of his argument is the sour taste that is still left in his mouth from 2 years ago, when the Oilers lost the Cup to Carolina, which changes the whole tone and meaning of his article. The truth of the matter is that it’s not because the NHL shouldn’t have moved into these smaller market areas, its that his home team is finding it more difficult to succeed in a league that is no longer catering to just them.

Finally, well said. I am not sure what is up with those hockey happy fools in the north. If anyone is not familiar with this attitude, just go to www.tsn.ca and read what they have to say. None of it really speaks to the US market at all. Its like they think there are two leagues, NHL-CA and oh yeah….nhl-us. Pathetic really….nuff said, err eh….

I’m tired as hell of being put down by the rest of the hockey world. But I am equally as tired of native southerners here in Raleigh with the “you couldn’t pay me to go to a hockey game mentality” We need to change the attitude of locals before we can expect “Canadians” in particular to give us a break. In the past 2 years I have taken 7 different people to their 1st game by offering to buy them a ticket (I am a STH) and their 1st beer. 6 of them are now fans the other moved away and I have no contact with him.

haters!!!

Those kinds of articles coming out of Edmonton have EVERYTHING to do with the 2006 Stanley Cup.
They’re going to hate everything about us until they win another Cup. That’s just the way it works. Or until they lose in the final again.

Yep, I’ll agree that part of this is probably coming because of the Stanley Cup win, but these types of articles certainly existed before 2006. As a matter of fact, I think there might have even been more of them before then.

Hurry up and move that pathetic franchise from a city in Raleigh that should have never gotten a franchise in the first place. Having a team in North Carolina is the reason the NHL is thought of as a joke.

I’m with Chad: you can make the case that moving to Phoenix or Miami was bad, but Tampa’s drawn the 2nd, 3rd and 6th most fans over the last three seasons and for the NHL to not expand to LA, the second biggest market in North America, would have been stupid. I also think the fact that Anaheim played to over 100% capacity this season indicates hockey is going just fine when the team does well (for the record: Last year Anaheim played to an average of 17,193 fans and 102.6% capacity. Edmonton played to an average of 16,828; 98.4% capacity.)

Also the “might as well be played indoor soccer” crack was pretty stupid, since indoor soccer averages about 5,000 a game….

@ Jason:

that doesn’t make sense. If anything the NHL has historically lacked a high profile and the same stature as other major sports because it’d only been played in a small part of the country. By getting teams all through the country (even in Southern markets), more people become familiar with hockey, more people play it and more people become NHL fans (and consumers).

I just have to say, OF COURSE Cole said he’s excited to play there. He probably is, but even if he’s not excited, doesn’t Mr. Tych think it would be the stupidest thing Cole could do to not to sound excited? They’d HATE him!
So, I agree. Let’s see where Cole signs next year. Then we’ll really know how excited he is about Edmonton.

Also, I seem to remember during a game here last season a comment that hockey was really taking hold and getting a good fan base. Apparently there was a basketball game between 2 of the three local colleges. I don’t remember which teams, I’m from upstate NY(don’t worry, I am NOT a Sabres fan!)and couldn’t care less about ACC basketball. Anyways, they said that the Canes still managed to have a full house despite the basketball game.

oh god… a link from a Edmonton article- this could get interesting.

The funny thing about the sniping back and forth between Edmonton and Carolina sports writers is that both cities are essentially in the same boat. NO BIG TIME FREE AGENTS WANT TO PLAY IN EITHER CITY, at least at this stage of the game. However, going forward, I’m betting Edmonton is much more attractive when I compare the young talent on both teams.

As well, the last time I checked no MAJOR free agent campaigned to play for the Hurricanes either so to say the Oilers have to overpay for a free agent is out of line. Ron Francis, Glen Wesley, Tom Barasso,etc. were either drafted by the ’Canes or traded there so that arguement is a wash. To continue that way of thinking lots of retired players live in the Buffalo area but nobody is rushing to sign with that team either!

Also, it is arogant for ‘Canes fans/writers to claim to be a hockey market when everyone knows otherwise. I have family who lived in the area during the ’Canes ’06 Cup run and I was told most fans down there don’t understand the game. Those who do are East coast Americans or Canadians who live in the area. The simple fact is NASCAR, NCAA sports, football and basketball all rank ahead of hockey in North Carolina. If you do play pro hockey in that state you do get lost in the shuffle.

As a pro athlete I would want to play in a city where my sport is #1 and in the Raleigh area hockey is not #1. So if I’m Eric Cole the idea of playing in a hockey mad market is appealing to me because the fans care about the game.

Robert Tychkowski has every right to express his opinion about “failed” markets in the NHL. Phoenix, Carolina, the Florida teams, Columbus, etc. have had their struggles, despite what the NHL, tells you. Anyone can doctor the books to make a team look profitable. Say what you want about Edmonton but the team survives to this day because the fans wanted it to. Thats right fans, the EIG and Darryl Katz, stepped up to purchase the team because they love the game. Would the same thing happen in Caolina? I severly doubt it. The Edmonton Oilers have gone from a “have not” team to one of the most profitable teams in the NHL, so they must be doing something right!

With all due respect to the writer of this column it was the wives of Mr. Pronger and Nylander who did not want to live in Edmonton. I cannot speak for Mr. Nylander but Chris Pronger, Mike Peca and others who ultimately moved on have said that playing for the Oilers was one of the greatest pure hockey experiences they ever had. Regardless we all know that Pronger and Nylander must be completely stupid to agree to a contract without talking it over with their wives and would you really want to play in Anaheim or Washington?

Yes, Edmonton is a northern market with along cold winter and a long travel schedule. It cannot compete with New York City or Los Angeles or Toronto in regards to off-ice activites but in terms of hockey experience and being number one the city is likely only behind Montreal or Toronto. Funny how nobody wants to play in Edmonton yet it was fine for Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Coffey, Fuhr, etc. to ply their trade and prosper their for 8-10 years of their careers. All of these players will tell you they loved being an Oiler and “once an Oiler, always an Oiler.” Can the same be said for a ’Cane? NO.

Will Eric Cole remain an Oiler beyond this season? I don’t know for sure but at this point I will take his word when he says he wants to stay. If he chooses to leave as an unrestricted free agent so be it. The ONE thing I would bet the farm on is IF Cole does leave the Oilers he won’t be hurrying back to Carolina to be a ’Cane!

Oh….one more thing….good luck with Pitkanen….by this time next year you won’t want him on your team either!

While I see ’ski’s point in his article I see Bubba’s side, too. I was born and raised in Detroit.

“There is only one sport, thou shall not worship any false sports”

I also have grown up and now live here. I support my local team. I also like our team and the crowd. I also still like the Wings.

Caveat, disregard any posts I make on Oct. 14, may still be under the influence..

Anyway,

Anybody remember a little dude name of Gretzky? He was an oiler and now he’s in Phoenix. How do they feel about Wayne?

Here’s an ugly little truth. I used to be into racing, nascar specific. Then they grew up and became the fastest growing national sport for many years running. They are turning out uber money. They lost me as a fan of sorts, just not much fun anymore. Point being they spread out and started making money hand over fist. The NHL is looking to do the same. I think they are succeeding. If you all recall it was not too long ago when the Canadian NHL teams were all but done. They were losing money hand over fist, not able to keep up. Canadian hockey (most of them anyway) teams are back in the saddle. Why? The expansion and the lock out. Two of the rather more nasty things to happen in hockey. So it’s from the ashes and out of the fire, comes Phoenix. When Wayne went to LA I was stunned, like most of us. When he bought into Phoenix, I was proud he got back into the game. Hell I root for Phoenix just cause I want to see them succeed. I think we have a great opportunity going here in Raleigh. Fair fan base, but talk about a target rich environment for fans. I agree witha previous poster, take a friend to a hockey game and you probably have shown them the light and created a new fan.

With the previous blog about that pole around here, the insanity of the ncaa crap and nascar, what is the ‘Canes place around here? Maybe they are working as hard as they can and it’s our fault they franchise isn’t a bigger name.

I was the guy several years back with the sign that said “I’m gonna take a crapital and wipe my jagr” when the craps came to town. The best way to shut up any other team, the town they come from and the fan base, is on the ice. You smoke them every time. THAT’S what talks and what it’s all about. Pouring your nickels into gear and tickets, showing up when times are good and bad. Most of all having a home team. You don’t get respect here or anywhere else, it’s gotten on the ice.

’ski was doing his job, maybe a little misguided, but maybe a little painful truth, too. Bubba, same story, a little more to my liking, though.

We all have to remember it started with 6 teams.

A

The Canadian media (most of them) can suck It! When was the last time a cup was awarded to a team north of the border? Jealousy has a way of tinting your judgement, The Canes have been in existence for ten years…we have gone to the Cup finals twice and watched Roddy lift the cup in ‘06. Truth is most teams would kill to have had the success the Canes have enjoyed this decade. Aside from Montreal, whom we dispatched from the playoffs in ’02 and ’06, all the Canadian teams could stand some improvement, both in ticket sales and in on ice performance. I think our ticket sales are respectable, especially considering the presence of the Tarheels, Blue Devils, and Wolfpack football and basketball games for most of the season. Everyone here knows what happens when the Canes make the post-season, all these fans unite to fill the Big ATM. If anyone in Edmonton has any questions or doubts, just pop in a copy of Game 7 from ’06. I remember distinctly being asked by Edmonton fans (who were very classy) “Do you guys always stand for the entire game?” They had never seen anything like it before. That’s what happens when you bring Collegiate enthusiasm to professional sports. Mr. Tychkowski….how you like dem apples!

Swenk, when you say all the Canadian teams could use an improvement in ticket sales….Toronto has sold out every game in the last 60 or so years, if not longer, and Montreal has been sold out since 2002 or 2003.

In any case, once again, the Canes fans have been riled up by a sportswriter in the middle of summer who has no good news to write about his shitty Edmonton team and so he decides to take an easy shot at a team who’s fan base is far enough away to be unable to respond.

You guys took the bait again!

If I got upset everytime I saw the AMERICAN media talk about Canadians living in igloos, hunting moose, eating hockey pucks for breakfast, I would never get out of bed. Yes, this article is ridiculous. Does it reflect the opinions of all Canadians? Assuredly not. Should I think that all Americans think that Canadians live in igloos and drive snowmobiles to work because I read it in the newspaper?

I think we in Carolina are so fortunate 1) to have a great hockey team and 2)Canes Country blogger Bubba who in sticking with his pen name is showing The Hockey News and all its readers that the South IS knowledgeable about hockey. I’m proud of the Carolina Hurricanes and being a true hockey fan. And Bubba, as always, love your site. Don’t despair Caniacs, we’ve won a Cup already and more are yet to come…

I wonder how many Canes fans are relocated northerners, half or more? I wonder how many more will continue to come down here and support the team. I wonder if Karmanos took this into account when moving the team here, that would be yes.

Mark, for me you hit it right on. We had a few places on the short list to move to, and this area ended up being the place because it was announced at the same time that one of my favorite teams was moving to the area. I would say that the team that I play on for fun is also made up of 65% relocated Yankees. The rest are natives who learned to play. There are more than twice as many rinks here now, and the number of teams that we play against has quadrupled.
That being said, I agree with repenttokyo that we “took the bait” on this one. I have found that fans here like ALL sports and are willing to learn about “new” ones as well. There is actually a long history of minor league hockey in Carolina. I feel that Carolinians that say “we don’t need hockey” are as much in the minority as those “hockey doesn’t belong in the South” Canadians. They are just trying to be heard and have to speak louder than everyone in order to be heard because they are in the minority.

“Shitty Edmonton team?” Now, I’m all about taking what I dish out, but how could anyone call this season’s Oiler team shitty? The additions of Cole and Visnovsky and the emergence of young, talented players has this club poised to challenge for the Northwest Division crown. I don’t see anything in regards to the ’Canes that makes them any better than Edmonton this coming year.

Hockey in the South will always be scrutinized, so get used to it. It’s a foreign concept to many people below the Mason-Dixon and a lot of the progress we’ve seen in the Southern states can be attributed to the Northerners who migrate south and from the actual NHL players who make this region their new home. Until the likes of Florida, Texas, North Carolina and what have you begin producing NHL talent on a regular basis and develop more than just an arena-filling fanbase (it’s not hard to sell out an 18,000 facility with millions of people in the area), then the criticisms will continue.

I don’t agree with Tychkowsky smearing the reputation of the Piedmont and the Carolinas in terms of their hockey prowess, to be sure. I have family down in Wilmington and Charleston and the game has already spread that far south. But it’s hard to argue that Cole didn’t step into a brighter spotlight in Edmonton simply due to the place of hockey in the grand scheme of things in the Alberta capital and throughout Canada. It’s paramount there, just as in NC it’s NASCAR (born in Rockingham) and college sports (Wake, NCST, UNC, Duke, ECU, etc.).

Sure, hockey isn’t as big in the Triad as it is in Edmonton. Hell, few cities can compare to Edmonton in terms of hockey prestige. In fact, Edmonton is among the top 10 in the world in professional hockey players produced. Obviously, it’s comparing apples to oranges. Rob shouldn’t have made such comparisons because there is none between the two in terms of hockey and the NHL. Night and day.

On the flip side, where does the author of this entry get off with the criticism of Kevin Lowe’s RFA sheets? It’s well within the rules of the CBA. And as for not being able to sign prominent UFA’s, Marian Hossa chose the Cup champions over the Oilers and specifically stated that Edmonton had his interest throughout the entire negotiating process. It’s not like Edmonton is the perfect hockey town and it’s not like Raleigh and the Carolinas are dead to the game (Canes, minor league teams, youth programs). Both sides ought to take a step back and heed the “glass house” advice that the author advocates.

Go Oilers. Best of luck this season to the ’Canes and Joni Pitkanen.

Hmmm, I’m interested as to why some feel the fans don’t know the game? I’ve been to about 100 and watched most of them. Our fans seem to cheer at the right point, boo at the correct point, help the ref’s when they make mistakes, just like most of the other hockey markets. I think the only crappy fans I have come across are the buffahoe fans, they just suck. Other than that, the rink doesn’t have a bad seat in the joint, the parking kinda sucks, but I’ve been to other venues and there isn’t a good way to shuffle 18K people. Always room for improvement. I’ve met a couple folks that have had ST since the team was in The Collosium. That’s pretty dang loyal. When you get down to the comparing of the ncaa, nascar, etc. The only “Pro” sport around has been nascar. Withe great schools around here you’d think there would of been a stable B-ball team. The Panthers I think are still around (grin), but went with the “Carolina” moniker to include south carolina, I don’t belive any such intention with the ‘canes existed. So why would the league approve a franchise here? Why would anybody want to own a team here? Maybe we are in the middle of one the more stable markets, not much “pro” sports competing for air time. Locates well for east coast play. The demographics of the area are pretty solid, too. When get outside of the fact that we have the highest number of PHD’s per capita, we also make pretty good money, don’t have much else to do around here and dang sure love sports.

I think there is tons of potential. I also think evreybody has a favorite team. I don’t really care what the oilers think about me or us. I do expect the ‘Canes to go out and try and pound them into the stone age at every meeting…….just like every other team. Don’t need an opinion on goalie pad size, who’s the best left winger or face Roddy off guy. Don’t even need to know how to skate to enjoy the team and the game.

Maybe the oilers know too much about hockey and can’t believe they got a good player like Cole and when they look at the locker room wonder if maybe this year they do something. We on the other hand know enough to enjoy what’s coming up. Another season of the greatest sport.

Don’t need to know about any other teams or cities to enjoy the competition coming to town.

So I just don’t get what it is one needs to know?

Don’t play with the white puck in the pisser?

A

I sent the following email to Mr. Tychkowski

Dear Mr. Tychkowski,

Ron Francis
Tom Barrasso
Glen Wesley
Steve Halko
Bates Battaglia (owns a bar in Raleigh)
Robert Kron
Aaron Ward (stated he will most likely retire to Raleigh)

Dear Mr. Tychkowski

This is a list , and probably not a complete one, of players who have either retired to Raleigh or have off-season residence in the city despite being traded or signing elsewhere. Perhaps being a "rock star" is not as much of a perk as you think it is. I’ll put it this way, I sometimes attend the same church as Ron Francis and on one occasion sat next to him and exchanged pleasantries. I knew exactly who he was and his standing in the history of the game. I’ve seen Cam Ward and Frank Kaberle at the local mall. Several players, including Eric Staal, used to live in the same apartment building that I lived in. In Raleigh, we see these guys around town and we treat them like neighbors, like members of the community; not like rock stars. And it’s not because we don’t recognize them, it’s because we have southern manners and courtesy. The fact is, the vast majority of ‘Canes players, past and present, love Raleigh. Of course, Erik Cole is not going to say to the Edmonton media that he’d rather be back in Raleigh. I’m sure he’s excited to play for such a storied franchise, but I would bet that if he ever gets the chance to come back, he’ll be much happier and excited about coming back here, than he is about going to Edmonton.

Bill Stokely
Native Carolina Caniac

Some very good replies here, for sure.

GSC- To answer your question about my criticism regarding the offer sheets, I never said that Lowe didn’t have the right to make them. He has every right. The reason that I labeled them “absurd” and “ludicrous” was because of the dollar amounts.

Do you really think that Thomas Vanek is worth 60 million over 8 years? Not only did Lowe do an excellent job of screwing up Buffalo’s internal budget for awhile, he inflated the value of other RFA’s entering their 2nd contract as well. (as Brian Burke already said).

Now having said that, I guess if a GM were to make an offer sheet at a fair or reasonable amount, the other team would easily match it. The only way to have a chance to make an offer sheet work, is to make it absurdly over-priced. That’s why you don’t see many made, I guess.

Who cares what canadiens write or think! The US is better any way!

I find it interesting that the writer in Edmonton would critique Raleigh as playing third fiddle to NCAA basketball and football. So what this guy is saying that since hockey is not as popular compared to those sports here, we should move the team? Ok, how bout we move the NY Rangers, or the Islanders for that matter, or the Boston Bruins. With all the love for the Yanks and the Sox and the Patriots and the Giants, there couldn’t possibly be enough love for those teams. Let’s pack up the Stars, cuz the The Cowboys are too busy screwin up in the playoffs. Move the Blackhawks, cuz the Cubbies are in the playoff hunt. Capitals? C’mon, Skins season is approaching, and don’t forget, that guy in the White House, how could any of those guys get treated like a rock star, even when one of them won the MVP. Hell, let’s just move every team to Canada, since they don’t have any other sports to contend with anyways, they got plenty of time. Maybe we should wait for the CFL season to get over with first, before we move everyone up there to those wonderful cities. Call me when someone in Canada gets to hold the Cup again. I won’t be holding my breath for that call.

To the person who said the Canadian franchises are flourishing because of the lockout and expansion, they are doing so much better now because the Canadian dollar is now on par or close to with the american dollar instead of around 60 cents to one american dollar like it used to be. And i know what i dont like about these southern markets with poor fan bases is that some come from hockey crazy Canadian cities like winnipeg or quebec city who deserve a team but as long as gary buttman is around will never get one back because its so important to him to spread the game in the south while ignoring the main fan base back up here in Canada.

GSC, while agree with some of that. I think every team compares every night of every year. Oilers and Islanders were dandy back in the eighties, Detroit has done pretty awsome in the regular season over the last 15. If you erase the past and compare apples to apples, I think it’s fair. For instance, the Wings. On paper they look like another Presidents trophy to me and would stack up against any team favorably. Which is good for them, the ‘Hawks are looking for some action, Stars will be back, etc. They are going to have to earn it. On paper, we have a pretty neat collection of folks. On a said day, they play thier A game, they are going to play great, not good, great hockey. Oilers, too. Who’s gonna play all 80 the best? Our guys have as much right to try as anybody. I love the history of the NHL, don’t get me wrong. It’s just there were certain defined era’s and I don’t think they have squat for bearing on todays teams except legacy. Montreals cup wins against “unopposed” Detroits Norris years have to be taken with a grain of salt. Start at the 60’s expansion and the NHL becomes more tangible, the last 20 have seen a great awarness and profit. Start from the lock out and everybodies playing with the same deck of cards, some just have more chips. I think it’s going to be a fun run until the times up in what 2010, from the lockout? I’d like to see what happens to the oilers if the NHL goes back to the way it was. I’d think the Charlotte Oilers has a ring to it. You may not respect what it takes to fill arenas, but that’s what the NHL business side is all about. So if it goes back to he with the most nickels wins, Canadian hockey will lose. The Habs will live, probably Toronto, so the 6 is still safe, but after that, I think enough money could pry about any other team outta there and there isn’t anyway Canada holds it’s “historic” position except in history books. If it wasn’t for teams like the southern group and the lock out crap, you folks could be on the edge of not having NHL style hockey. It all looks peachy now, but think back to the turn of the century and most of the Northern teams were in financial distress. Winning didn’t mean you made money. So call the southern teams what you will, just remember to thank the hockey Gods for us at night time prayers.

Yea, the Charlotte Oilers, I wonder if John Belk wants a team….

A

Masterfully written article. I especially liked the part where you say that guy has probably never been to Carolina and then deride a place that you’ve most certaily never been to. Great stuff.

FYI, if you claim to understand the game, then you certainly realize that offer sheets are a tool available to each and every GM in the league. And what exactly does “RFA” stand for if free agents won’t sign in Edmonton? I only ask because I assume you have some special insider information that no one else on the planet has access to regarding RFA’s not being free to reject an offer sheet? Is that a new rule?

GSC – you are dreaming in technicolour if you think that the Oilers are going to be challenging for anything this coming season.

repenttokyo – On what grounds am I dreaming? Give me specific reasons why they won’t challenge for the Northwest division or at least a playoff spot? Don’t just sit there and make claims without providing some evidence to go along with it.

Paladin6 – Let’s not forget that a good fraction of the Southern/Sun Belt teams (Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix, Nashville) are in financial distress. I have a very hard time believing that the likes of Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, and Ottawa will be shipped to the States because of financial problems. The clubs have billionaire owners who have the capital to deal with a recession and drop of the Canadian dollar should it happen again. Besides, if these markets survived pre-lockout in what was absolutely dismal financial conditions ($1 US = $1.50 CDN), why couldn’t they hold water in the future? The expansion/relocated franchises were placed in the Southern US because of growing populations. The NHL figured that they could attract enough fans to fill up a building and create a following. Problem is, the talent pool was also diluted and the league took the one-time expansion fees as a source of revenue.

Canadian NHL hockey isn’t going anywhere. It’s ridiculous to suggest that the current Canadian markets can’t sustain a recession or a drop in the value of the CDN dollar and that the league would become almost exclusively American. To see you resort to such claims is disappointing, to say the least.

And the “Charlotte Oilers?” Are you serious?

Talk about taking away from a fanbase in Raleigh…This isn’t Toronto where another team could wind up in Hamilton or somewhere in the Golden Horseshoe and do just as well as the Leafs in terms of ticket sales. FYI, the waiting list for Leafs season tickets is well over 20 years. And this certainly isn’t New York City, where shear size allows for 3 teams in the vicinity.

I posted an article on my blog about this. He truly doesn’t understand the meaning of SOUTHERN HOCKEY.

where did he “deride” Edmonton? He based his comments off of what numerous players have stated about the team and city. I will reserve judgement until I take a vacation to Edmonton, are the golf rates cheaper in january like they are in raleigh?

Mr. Schneider-

I don’t believe that I said anything that “derided” Edmonton. Actually, I like Edmonton. I certainly didn’t say that dog fighting was more popular than hockey is up there, now did I?

Oh come on, as Rambo would say, who drew first blood here? L

You make a good point about the ability of RFA’s to turn down offer sheets if they please. Although what fool would turn down an offer sheet from Lowe that would pay a player double what he would get paid from his previous team? You think Buffalo was ready to pay Vanek 60 million before Lowe entered the picture?

Don’t be hatin on L.A. we have the most loyal fans in all of hockey…we come back every year even if the kings suck! edmonton is just bitter at L.A. because we stole the great one…

As a Canadian (from Montreal, not Edmonton) I just find it funny that a writer from the Edmonton Sun is referred to as “the Canadian media”. The Sun is a tabloid style newspaper that isn’t even the biggest newspaper in Edmonton. That’s basically the equivalent of referring to someone writing for a third-tier newspaper in Nashville as “the American media”.

Maybe some writers from relevant newspapers up here also take shots at Southern hockey, but I’m just making a point.

Edmonton does not have a single player who will crack 70 pts next year. They do not have solid goaltending. Hemsky has no one to play with. Souray was a huge disaster. Meed I go on?

“Edmonton does not have a single player who will crack 70 pts next year. They do not have solid goaltending. Hemsky has no one to play with. Souray was a huge disaster. Meed I go on?”

Hemsky: 71 PTS last season WITHOUT Horcoff for 20+ games

Horcoff: point per game until a shoulder injury sidelined him some 50 games in

Garon: 26-18-1, .913 save percentage, 2.66 GAA

Souray: Injured, hard to say what he can and can’t do. I don’t like his signing either, but it is what it is.

You’re making it very easy for me to call you hockey ignorant. You’ve absolutely ignored the stats and all relevant information pertaining to this subject. When Ales Hemsky scored 71 PTS last season and was without his #1 centre AND played with a rookie for the final part of the season, you’re foolish to suggest that he 1) can’t crack 70 points, and 2) has no one to play with. Same goes for Horcoff.

Do you rteally think Horcoff will play a complete season this year? I don’t.

Hemsky squeaks in with 71 points? I guess you got me there!!

Garon has played more than 60 games a season exactly once in his NHL career. Are you really going to try to convince me that he is a bonafide NHL number one? He is unproven, with potential – and roloson is a goalie who should be considering retirement.

As someone who watched Souray play under a microscope in Montreal, I can tell you what he CAN’T do without the Mtl powerplay – and thats score anywhere near 20 goals.

I’m not ‘foolishly’ ignoring any stats. Your are ‘foolishly’ thinking that past performance indicates future performance. Hemsky has never lived up to his potential, and I don’t see Edmonton as a team which has improved from last year to this one. Gagner might put some more points on the board, but he is far from ready to shoulder a heavy load with the team, and he is not a saviour in any case.

You’ve got Hemsky and then what, exactly? A slew of 50 pt players, injury prone players, and rookies who are not ready for prime time yet. Vis had a lot of trouble putting the puck in the net last year – will that magically change now that he is in Edmonton? Lowe is running the franchise into the ground.

As for calling me ‘hockey ignorant’, I’m actually in the middle of reading ‘The Game of our Lives’. Have you ever read it? Do you even know what it is?

BTW, is 26 wins the new standard for NHL excellence? If so, I had no idea.

Try being a St. Louis Blues fan. Watching great players leave to other markets and go on to win cups with other teams, regardless of Canadian or US teams. I remember people hated Pronger here because he was traded for Shanahan. I got to see Rod Brind’amor as a rookie. It was fun watching the finals in 06 because I got to see good hockey with players I enjoyed seeing here in St. Louis. Hell, I’ve enjoyed every cup final I remember seeing because it was HOCKEY!!! I love hockey no matter what, southern, Canadian, midwest, in Arab nations. Who cares.

The game is great where ever it is played. The bigger it expands, the better for the game. Why call Carolina a third tier market. Hell, hockey is considered a 4th tier sport to Baseball, Football, Basketball, and probably even Jai Jahlia (that wicked sport with the basket hook and 120 MPH flying ball). So instead of criticize the other markets, we need to support them all.

I don’t get this Canadian elitism. I mean, if they look down on the US markets for taking “their” sport, why are there not anymore Canadian teams? The original six only had two Canadian teams. I don’t believe there was ever a time where there has been more or even Canadian teams than U.S. Teams. So why hate the U.S. markets, southern or not, for expanding the sport?

I only played hockey for fun, in competitive and recreational leagues. I was never, and will never be a pro, and that is ok. But I bet there are plenty of young, talented, and eager young Canadian men who would die for the chance to play in Carolina, Florida, or LA just because it is the NHL. Forget the elitism and just love the sport.

Well as a transplanted Canuck living in the the NY area I know that it isn’t simply a Southern US issue. The Devils play to half full buildings and the Islanders are lucky to hit 5 figures in attendance.

I can tell you that most Canadian fans have a hatred of US hockey instilled in them thanks to Gary Bettman. His aggressive expansion, even into areas that had failed in the past, hurt hockey’s growth for quite a while. Bettman is only concerned about the size of the television market and not the long term stability of a franchise. As Winnipeg and Quebec lost their teams for Phoenix and Colorado it seemed like the NHL had abandoned its roots. (ex. glowing pucks and slapshot speeds)

Hockey is the best sport in the world but it will never catch on in TV land in the US. There are too many other options on TV to watch. As long as youth hockey continues to grow in the South and you see outstanding American hockey players the game will grow whether it is in Raleigh or Tampa (Nashville the jury is still out on). Hockey fans are made by exposure to live games. HD Hockey on television is amazing but to get people to watch you need to get them into the arenas and at $100 a pop that isn’t too easy any more.

As a true Habmaniac I salute the fans of Raleigh for supporting your team…well everyone but Justin Williams:) Saku forgives but he doesn’t forget!

The Game of Our Lives, eh? Did you read the ad in hockey news for it or what? Just because you’re reading a damned book about hockey doesn’t mean you know the game.

And you’re going by what exactly in evaluating Oiler players? Hemsky an underachiever? He’s posted 70+ PTS twice in his young career. Horcoff played 78, 80, 79, and 80 games after being permanently called-up from the AHL with the Oilers up until last season. What makes you think he can’t play close to every game again? And what leads you to believe that he and Hemsky won’t thrive on the 1st line? The last time Horcoff scored 70+ PTS (2005-06, 73 PTS) Hemsky scored GASP! 77 PTS. It’s been done before, it can (and likely will) be done again. You’re going by what exactly as barometers for Horcoff’s health and Hemsky’s failure to meet his potential? By the way, how many Canes reached the 70+ Point plateau last season? One, same as Edmonton.

As for Gagner, well no shit he isn’t going to do much heavy lifting. He’ll continue to work on the 2nd line, but has proven that he can take on some 1st line and 1st PP minutes if need be. I already agreed on the Souray signing, what else do you want? My point projection for Sheldon? I’ll gladly provide it: 9 G – 18 A – 27 PTS if he plays 60+ games. I’m well aware that he won’t reach 20 goals with the Oilers…what’s your point? He isn’t the only offensive defenceman on the roster.

Garon’s record is indicative of a solid goaltender, as is his GAA and Save %, wins be damned. He was injured for a brief stint at the end of last season, otherwise he’d likely come into this season with 30+ wins. I’d say that’s a fine season for a guy who wasn’t put into the #1 role until midseason.

Visnovsky managed 40+ PTS on an absolutely horrible LA team. He was also LA’s leading scorer on defence. He’s a clear upgrade over Joni Pitkanen, who didn’t produce anywhere close to Lubomir last season. That’ll magically change with the Canes though, right?

As for Lowe running the Oilers into the ground, how do you figure? This team nearly made the playoffs last season without Horcoff, Souray, Ethan Moreau, Raffi Torres, and Garon (for a stretch) and with the majority of those bodies back and Torres being replaced by Erik Cole (a clear upgrade), why shouldn’t the Oilers be at least a playoff team?

And yes, I’m calling you hockey ignorant for a damned good reason. I came on here to make a civil comment to this entry and I get an unfounded claim that I’m “dreaming in technicolor” if I believe that the Oilers are a playoff team or will challenge for anything this season. What evidence do you provide for the Oilers missing out again?

GSC,

You don’t get it and that’s fine and understood. Just as a last try, your great white billion dollar boys 10 yrs ago dropped a tax bracket because most of Canada has squat for money, morons in the government that think universal health care is a good idea

Try me on that one!

and hockey is all you have up there. They aren’t going to go from billions to millions or less for a venture that can’t at least sustain. The Canadian teams were not able to financialy compete. Read that, not on the ice, but in the bank and they had an exchange rate advantage.

Here’s the bottom line, north or south, you don’t make money nobody will keep a team. Selling season tickets for a thousand years is not the whole picture, though I agree Toronto and the Habs ain’t going anywhere. You gotta admit that there are far more large areas down here than up there and money talks. If you don’t get that, you never will. I hope you master flipping burgers in an American franchise.

BTW, “charlotte Oilers” was bait, just landed your fat pasty butt. Happen to know John and he ain’t lookin’ to buy the Oilers, but there are about 20 folks down there that could. Raleigh just crested into the top 50 cities down here. The top 50 cities in Canada compared to the top 50 in the States, hmmmm which has better prospects for supporting a team financialy, which has larger fan bases, which has better weather to get to the dam games?

From a business aspect, you couldn’t pull off the NHL only in Canada, you could without them.

Sorry if that stings. No that’s a lie. On your knees and bow to the forces that allow to survive. If not for the teams south of you allowing and changing everything to allow you to survive, you wouldn’t have. So ride your little wave and remember what was ten years ago and fear what could be.

I would hate to see a “Charlotte Oilers”, that was to piss you off. The Canadian economic system is not what the States have. That is apples and oranges. Don’t really care how much money a small group has. They want to keep or grow it. If the league didn’t step in to throw the Canadian teams a bone, you’d be down to maybe 4 teams and 2 would have ugly fat greasy copious bids for them.

Talk all the junk you want. The dollar still rules and it ain’t squat to what it was 10yrs ago. And it’s the only reason Canada is still in the NHL.

How strong is your little ice house of cards? Wait until 2010 and renegotiations start up. Canadas team will cry like little girls to keep the current deal. Otherwise, they will have to go by bus or dogsled. Don’t think that’s gonna float.

So wrap around the big stiffy of fact. If not for the last expansion, most of the Canadian teams would of comprised the expansion and be down here. Thank what ever you want that they made room to allow lesser achievers like the Canadians teams to remain and not get swallowed up.

I guess that would make the Canadians whores, just being used to supply fresh meat for the American NHL and the Habs and Leafs.

MMMmmmmm, that’s a warm fuzzy.

A

Wow Paladin6 as baiting goes that certainly stirred the pot but you can’t seriously think the NHL would function without a Canadian presence. I mean ESPN couldn’t even be bothered to carry the sport anymore. (Not even on ESPN 2:))

Players are just like everyone else. Some guys want to live in a sunny place, some guys want to be heroes wherever they go and some guys like to blend into the woodwork. Players choose teams for a lot of reasons.

BTW Universal health care rocks. What I used to get for free I now pay $6000 a year for. Kind of takes away the tax differences.

Paladin, you are way out of line about Canada.

Regarding Canadian and American economic systems – you are right they are radically different. This is why Canada has a solid economy and no credit crisis, due to the fact that you can’t buy get a 300 000 dollar mortage making 5 dollars an hour ;)

Oh, and billion dollar budget surpluses every single year.

This is rapidly becoming an entirely different conversation.

I think everyone needs to look at this for what it is Canadians are arrogant about hockey but you have to realize Canada only has 35 million people and our sports expertise is slightly limited compared to our Southern brethren who are essentially good at every sport (except maybe cricket but that game should be abolished anyway i mean a 3 day game that still ends in a tie come on) but if you look at where most players from the league come from i bet half still are Canadian born so we hold the game in very high regard and make no apologies about and i think our media gets a little to carried away sometimes because they can’t understand it when their sport is not number 1 somewhere and posting an article like the one the Canadian fella did only really seemed to upset the true Carolina fans anyway. i mean not all sports are popular everywhere look at Basketball in Vancouver yikes!. And as far as fans not understanding the rules i don’t buy that anymore that excuse has been going on for years now their fans know the rules.Oh and as for the Oilers and Hurricanes you both actually suck with the Oilers sucking worse. Rod Brind-Amour is a true hockey hero and Go Vancouver Canucks Sundin is ours Canes see you in the finals

oh and gsc dude – why would there be an ad ANYWHERE for a book that was published in the early 80’s.

Paladin6 – For the record, I’m an American. But hey, I’ll play ball. Canada has “squat for money?” How about a stronger dollar than the US for starters? Not to mention, Canada is the single largest importer of Oil to the US. And if universal health care is such a horrible idea, why does every other civilized nation provide such a service?

As for your city size argument, size of a market means nothing unless the population is genuinely interested in the product. But let’s go ahead and compare Raleigh and Edmonton in terms of population since you seem to firmly believe that the NHL is destined to migrate from Alberta, BC, and the Capital and land in the US.

Raleigh: City 374,320; Metro 1.5 MIL
Edmonton: City 730,372; Metro 1.07 MIL

Edmonton is a larger city while Raleigh has a bigger metro population. It’s a wash. Not to mention, Edmonton is a proven hockey hotbed. Apparently, it’s “all they have” up there. Hockey plays 3rd wheel in the Piedmont, whether you want to admit it or not. According to the 2007 Forbes team valuations (http://www.sportscity.com/NHL/Forbes-NHL-Team-Valuations/), the Oilers had a $9.9 MIL operating income. And what did the Canes have? $-7.5 MIL. In the red, and yet supposedly since Raleigh has more people in its vicinity it must be a more viable market? Jim Rutherford had this to say in April of ‘08 when the Canes failed to make the playoffs: "We’d have had to go at least two [playoff] rounds to get to close to being in the black." (source: http://www.newsobserver.com/796/story/1035448.html).

Thats sounds an awful lot like some of those struggling Canadian teams during the pre-lockout era. If money talked and the “far larger” areas got what they wanted, the Oilers would’ve moved to Houston by now. Portland, OR would have a team over Ottawa. Kansas City would be the home of the Flames.

But let’s keep going, let’s compare the 4 Canadian cities to the largest US cities without NHL markets…

Houston, TX: City 2.2 MIL; Metro 5.6 MIL
San Antonio, TX: City 1.3 MIL; Metro 1.9 MIL
San Diego, CA: City 1.25 MIL; Metro 2.9 MIL
Jacksonville, FL: City 800K; Metro 1.3 MIL

Calgary, AB: City 1.04 MIL; Metro 1.16 MIL
Edmonton, AB: City 730K; Metro 1.07 MIL
Ottawa, ONT: City 812K; Metro 1.16 MIL
Vancouver, BC: City 650K; Metro 2.2 MIL

And yet, why don’t those American areas have NHL franchises? Clearly there is more people in most of those cities. Because it means nothing if you have the population but a disinterested fanbase.

Yeah it’s the same, basic reason why baseball failed in Montreal, a city with a metro population of over 3 million – because no one cared. That and the fact that the ballpark was in the middle of nowhere.

and of course, the strike that killed the Expos pennant season.

wow, I never thought the conversation would digress to politics…L

Nice to see all the new faces, GSC, Josh, Joe, Nate, Habmaniac88, Kris, Doug, and even Rob Schneider. Don’t be strangers. (and anyone else I missed)

Nice to see the familiar faces too.

I have some mixed feelings about this article. You make it a point to highlight Mr. Tychkowski’s generalized ignorant comments, yet you make your own by calling out an entire country based on one person’s remarks.

I’m Canadian, and I live in Montreal. This city eclipses Edmonton in every hockey-related aspect. But the big difference is, we love hockey so much, that we love every city that offers it. I had a great time watching our habs play the canes multiple times in the playoffs.

Yes, “up here in the north”, we’re really passionate about the sport but it doesn’t mean we’re all elitists.

Impatiently waiting for the next season to start…

I do not blame you guys for being pissed one bit. That article was pretty ridiculous and the writer embarrassed himself. That paper is becoming a joke and tabloid like.

The writer of the article deserves to be called on it and deserves what he gets. Defend your city and fans against what he said no one could blame you for that.

Having said all of that. Taking shots at Edmonton as a city, the organization and by extension the fans of the Oilers. Just means to me you sunk down to his level and does that not make you just as bad? I would say so yes. Attack the writer of the article and no one else. He is the only one responsible for writing that tripe.

Somehow “I’m going to throw a couple of stones back at Mr. Tychkowski’s glass house.” quickly turned into attack all things Edmonton and Oilers.

“Just ask Chris Pronger, and Michael Nylander, two NHLers who refused to play there.”

MORE LIKE THEIR WIFES YOU GOOF.

I think anyone who enjoys the game should be welcomed as a fan. I’m still learning. This will be my second year as a STH (only the mini plan unfortunately, can’t afford more). I am from Upstate NY, and I can honestly say, I never watched hockey up there. I actually had to come to the south to become a fan. I was brought to my first Canes game in 2001 by friends. They were like me. They had lived outside of Chicago, but never went to a game because it was too hard to get tickets.

If you think of it that way, hockey in they south is a good thing, since it makes it more accessible and increases the fan base. Almost everyone I’ve taken to a game has enjoyed it and gone to more.

As for the the other NC sports, I couldn’t care less. I got bored at the Panthers game, and Syracuse basketball never comes to NC, so why bother.

Now theres a good thread.

Habmaniac, was just chumming. I ain’t gonna get into the healthcare issue here.

I love Canadians and hockey and they are as predictable as the English in a bar. Arguments abound.

Thanks for the thoughts gang!!

A

It’s July and we’re talking hockey. That’s awesome.

As an Edmontonian, let me say that this is an over-reaction. Is it not true that Hockey is a 3rd teir sport in Carolina (correct me if I am wrong). Also, let me tell you that when Erik Cole was up here (in the middle of July!) he was front page news. So, we do treat him as a Rock Star. Let me also say that this is rather pathetic. We are pathetic in our love of hockey. I don’t even know if the Sun article really was proud of this. Its such a problem that many of the Hockey Morons (those people who boo their own goalie when he has a bad game) actually cause a lot of grief for the team as it is harder to attract players. Yet, I also remember many Carolina players who were in Awe when they played here during the Stanley Cup – It was insane. I was actually at Mecca once during the Hajj (pilgrimage – I was really just there as an atheistic tourist) and I tell you, the feeling in Edmonton was close to that. It was insane.

On another issue. Your gov’t has managed your economy terribly, one crisis after another due to poor management. Sub-prime mortgages are essentially illegal in Canada – yes, its a lack of freedom, but we protect idiotic people from themselves. We also protect the rest of us from them. On issue after issue, global economists have warned the USA to better manage their economy, but short term thinking is the norm there. It is because of this that the Can $ has managed par. We have had almost 16 years of Budget Surpluses, and we have done this with Universal Health Care and similar tax levels to the USA (look it up). In fact, if you are an American who pays for health coverage (or your employer does), you pay much more in total (taxes plus health coverage) than your Canadian Counterpart. I should also note that your country has Higher infant mortality, lower surgery success rates, more medical errors, and equally long wait times. Your system is managed by Beurocrats (who work for insurance companies), ours is managed by Doctors. Nobody has to approve a test for me if my doctor says I need it.

Anyway, I don’t know what my point is, but I have managed to avoid doing my work for another 20 minutes or so.

“Anyway, I don’t know what my point is, but I have managed to avoid doing my work for another 20 minutes or so.”

That’s all the justification anyone will ever need in regards to everything. Nicely done.

Repenttokyo – For once we agree, the Expos leaving Montreal had everything to do with people simply not giving two shits about baseball. It’s a shame, too. They had some halfway decent teams over the years but no one came out to Olympic Stadium to support them. Oh well, DC got a team back out of it so I guess it works out. Much like the Nordiques move from Quebec City to Denver, from one solid market to another.

It’s been fun talking it up with you folks, helps the time to pass between now and training camp. As I said before, best of luck to the Canes this season.

Bob- I hear that hockey bloggers get paid more up there as well….where do I sign up?

peace all.

Bob- I think you made point of this already, but I dont see why us Americans(especially the Carolina fans here) should be upset that hockey is a “3rd tier” sport here. I think some of the ‘Canes players actually love it. It really is something when Commie could go out to the bars every weekend and not get swamped constantly. Sure some players might enjoy not being able to leave their houses(maybe not so much after bad games) they are so popular, but they all don’t.

Maybe Canadians should learn to enjoy a few other sports rather than JUST hockey. Hockey is tied with the NFL for best sports in my opinion. College Football a close second than College Basketball- from there it is a huge fall off.

Hockey in Carolina is on a steady trend up, and will continue with smart moves by our front offices.

skinfan: our summer is only like, 90 days long – makes it hard to enjoy sports that don’t involve ice and snow ;)

OK lads, turn down the anti-Canadian rhetoric. Just because one Canadian tabloid idiot said a lot of stupid things about Carolina there’s no need to get upset at anyone but him. It is fine that hockey in not close to being Number 1 in Carolina and just as fine in that is almost a religion in Canada. Carolina is a beautiful place and so is Alberta.
We had a great Stanley Cup Final a few years ago and your fan support was great. The Duck Pond sounded like a morgue but your building was really rocking and I think a lot of people in NC realized what a great game hockey can be. As a season ticket holder here I guarantee you our barn went completely insane and a great time was had by all, although winning would have been nicer! Losing hurt but it was nice to see classy people like Brindamour, Weight and others carry the Cup. So congrats.
Yes, some Canadians wonder about the long-term solidity of NHL southern franchises and note not unreasonably that apart from bizarre financial issues (like when the CAD dollar fell to 62C U.S.) Canadian franchises are guaranteed to be successful and supported and there should be a few more.
As for Carolina, as long as you support your team, why should anyone question the franchise? I don’t and no hockey fans that I have heard discussing this on local radio or blogs do either. Some other southern franchises I’m not so sure of.
By the way I think you are right that some players prefer to play in a city where they are cheered on the ice but can walk around the area and rarely be recognized. Others like the feeling of living in a hockey mad environment.
Anyway, I could never get a hate up for Carolina during the Finals and I don’t want that kind of rivalry with Cane fans either. We hate Calgary and Vancouver and any team connected to that fat blowhard Brian Burke. As long as you don’t bring him to Carolina, let peace reign.
I think it’s terrific that in the heartland of college basketball there are sports fans who appreciate another great game.
Good luck this year and I hope Joni P gives you more thrills in the offensive zone than chills in his own zone. Hopefully Cole will play well, love our city and sign a long term deal.
By the way our local quality newspaper blogger wrote about this controversy and certainly is sympathetic to your very understandable reaction. Just don’t overreact. Good luck this season and spare a thought for us as we freeze our Canadian butts again this winter.

Tom from Edmonton

@Ken: You didn’t happen to notice the last couple of letters of that URL, did you? TSN.ca? It’s Canadian-centric because it’s the website of a Canadian sports station.

@RepentTokyo: you are dreaming in technicolour if you think that the Oilers are going to be challenging for anything this coming season.

I would be inclined to agree that on paper, this is not a division titlist. But then anything’s possible, especially with at least three, if not four, Northwest teams taking steps back, and the Oilers taking definite steps forward.

Do you rteally think Horcoff will play a complete season this year? I don’t.

He played 78+ games in each of his four full seasons before the injury. I’d bet on it.

Hemsky squeaks in with 71 points? I guess you got me there!!

Again, you ignore the actual context. He played without his centre for 30 games, and played through a wrist injury for half the season, and still put up almost a point per game. I’d call that pretty solid.

Your are ‘foolishly’ thinking that past performance indicates future performance.

Good thing I have this Goddamn crystal ball that’ll tell me what the future really holds. If we can’t predict the future based on reasonable extensions of the past, in one direction or the other, what the hell do we predict it with? Our hind ends?

@The forum in general, particularly Paladin6: You know, all the jingoism that seems to kick up whenever a Canadian sports writer takes a crack at the southern markets really gets tired. I mean, fine, Canadian sports writers taking cracks at the southern markets also really gets tired, but come on. Is fighting douchery with douchery really the answer here?

I’d feel bad if I knew what “jingoism” and “douchery” was…

;-)

A

@ Bob,

Hate to dive into the whole Canada/America thing but to say that the countries have equal wait times is absurd. Granted I haven’t studied it in several years, but I know there was never a time when a routine knee surgery in the United States meant a wait time of more than a year.