Guest Feature - Fight Fire with Fire?

my opinion:
it doesnt take an enforcer to answer a questionable hit.

im not saying they should have done anything overly stupid, but maybe im saying do something just a little bit stupid to answer a hit like that, take a chance..

this is your star rookie,
and as ive said before the sutter, larose, bayda line is the best looking one on the ice.

rutuu was the only one who even remotely answered that hit with his own, but that was just normal play for rutuu.
you gotta stand up for sutter more than just a couple punches after the play. they all gotta bring it to there gameplay after that

im not arguing against your post
sure laviolette could have helped.

but i dont even think the canes were all that angry about the hit.

it doesnt matter what weight’s “intentions” were…
the hit happened, so there has to be answer in more than one form.
example: every guy on the bench saw sutter knocked out on the ice, and it wasnt an accident. it didnt seem to get under their skin the way it got under (probably) every fan’s

maybe im an idiot. but i wanted to see at least an attempt at consequences..

who knows though, maybe they did the rigth thing thouhg, we did win the game afterall.

-c

Wow… Very well stated! And I agree 100%

I have always wondered why our coach has such a strange view on fighting… when it is called for it is called for… no questions.

Over the summer (I believe it was on ESPN.Com) a list of coaches was posted on the internet and some coaches were given “elite” status and on down…. and I remember ’Canes fans being irked that Coach Ruff in Buffalo was given a better status than Laviolette… But can you imagine what would have happened if Doug Weight did the same thing to one of Ruffs players in Buffalo? Yeah… I think we saw it back in 2007 Vs Ottawa.

The Flyers wouldn’t have put up w/ it…

Detroit is the best team in the league…. and if this happened to one of their players Mike Babock wouldn’t have stopped any of his guys from enforcing “the code.” He would have wanted it….

But our coach has been this way ever since he got here… and all he ever says is that he tells our guys not to fight unless it’s absolutely necessary…. Well… who’s career has to end before it’s “absolutely necessary?” What (in coaches eyes) warrants such action??? Eric Cole had his neck broken and NOBODY took on Brooks Orpik until Cole did it himself LAST SEASON!!!! Not only is that not acceptable, it’s bordering on disgraceful!!!

I don’t get it… and it’s not just because of the Sutter thing… I’ve never understood his view on this issue…

I have to disagree with this argument. I was at the game too. After the Sutter hit point we were trying to win the game. You can’t just say, well send out brookbank or lacouture and have them take retribution. Especially from the way the game was being called, we would have just gotten more penalties and probably have given up the lead. Furthermore, Doug Weight isn’t going to fight one of those big guys if you want to go after him and if the guys who would fight for Isles normally weren’t even seeing ice time by that critical part of the game just like brookbank and lacouture weren’t. So to me, this argument that it was Laviolette’s fault not seeking retribution right away with a 1 goal lead and 10 minutes to play does not hold water. If the Canes really want revenge, they will have to wait until the next time they play the Isles – but it still will be hard to get it on Weight because he is not a fighter.

Great blog/comments C-Leaguer. I thought last year was a wake up call for Lavi with the Cullen injury when he finally let us retaliate against Orr at that classic game in January which was the start of us turning around our dignity and which ended our losing streak. The team and the fans had chemistry again that continued for several games. However, it seems that Lavi is back to his old ways “no fighting”, which in turn means no teamwork and no fanbase. Obviously it’s true that Leopards don’t lose their spots, Lavi hasn’t changed a bit. He lost a great deal of my support to keep him around last night.

Having said that, I hold some blame with the players who were on the ice at the time of the hit. Now we all know the players can’t leave the bench to fight, but you had 3 other players who could (not counting Bayda). When Bayda went for it, no other player joined in to support him in his retaliation. I realize this would have resulted in penalties and may have lost us the game, but who would have cared at that point. I’m willing to bet that there are some upset players with Lavi after last night, especially Brookbank not being able to send our message for the team.

You said it best C-Leaguer, we won the battle, but lost the war on this one. Shame on Lavi and the other players for not supporting their teammate Sutter.

Lou, you are EXACTLY right. Still, I would have liked to see a little lip from some of our players.

Sadly, or maybe not, we were after those 2 points. Seeking retribution at that point in time would have been costly. As it was, Bayda gets a penalty (go figure) and they got a penalty shot.

None of it makes sense, but I believe your theory holds water on this one.

As far as having to wait until Sutter gains 50 pounds so he can hold his own and seek retribution against Doug…forget it, Doug will be long gone. I was glad when Erik got the heads up on Orpik, but it was a little anti-climactic. Not much of a fight. I was disappointed that Erik wasn’t able to really knock the crap out of Brooks.

So growing up, my favorite team was the NY Islanders. Aside from Weight’s hit turning me off of the Islanders completely as my second-favorite team, I am reminded of one of the key players during the Isles’ Stanley Cup run of years gone by.

Clark Gillies was an absolute beast whose job was to hit people very hard as they crossed center ice and beat the crap out of anybody who messed with Mike Bossey and company. His attitude — backed up by goalie Billy Smith’s hatchet of a stick — rubbed off on the whole team which played gritty and with a lot of heart.

Coach Lavi is strictly an x’s and o’s coach who is enamored with his grasp of offensive strategy. Having missed the playoffs the past two years, he has not changed one bit with his approach to team chemistry or toughening-up this team. The hit on Sutter ABSOLUTELY should have been dealt with by Brookbank; screw the two points in October, for crying out loud.

Retribution for Cherepanov

thanks Dougie Weight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meDcW5YYe4M

Screw two points in October? How many points did we miss the playoffs by the last 2 years?

Thanks for contributing C-Leaguer.

Here’s some thoughts:

• I think the focus was “get the two points.” An instigator for fighting could’ve led to the Isles making a comeback.

• This may sound odd, but this is one of the big things we miss about Justin Williams. While Justin’s not a dirty player at all, he does get under the skin a bit — he’s a tenacious forechecker, and his stick does get up from time to time. But the fact that his skill has to be respected and makes teams game plan a little differently. LaRose tried to be a bit of a pest the end of last season, but really there’s no one in that role.

• I think we need to back off on the idea of sending LaCouture out there to fight. He’s not an enforcer — he’s more of a less-skilled Scott Walker: a guy who will fight for his teammates and play a gritty game. But let’s not confuse him with someone who’s out there for pugilism.

I don’t necessarily feel that the ‘Canes need an enforcer, they seem to need that tenacity and toughness that forces other teams to keep their heads up. The ’Canes have enough guys that will fight, but the guys who will lay out hits and are hard to push around are given 4 minutes a game – if they’re lucky. LaCouture has proven that he won’t be pushed around – and can score a few goals. Guys like Conboy play with tenacity. If Rutuu and Walker are two of a few guys who can play gritty & get any ice time, of course they are going to hurt their hands in fights, or get banged up and miss a few games.

Also – wasn’t JR trying to send a message to SOMEONE when he signed Hordichuck? Maybe Darcy knew his role would be extremely limited on a Laviolette coached team, and that’s why he refused to play here?

I also feel the ’Canes started the season well, but the good start may erode due to, once again, injuries. I do have faith in the Rats to come up and energize this team as we lose more players – seems to just be a forgone conclusion, now.

I agree that someone should have stood up for Sutter, clean hit or not. Even 18 year old Luke Schenn took on Chris Neil Sat. night. You think his teammates didn’t appreciate that. Of course I am a Lightning fan and can say our players didn’t make contact with anyone Sat. night, even on the boards. Glad Sutter has been released and regardless of what the fans think of Laviolette, I think he has done a good job with all the injured players he has had in the last two seasons. I will gladly swap you Melrose for your coach anytime and will throw in any 6 of players.

I understand the “get two points” thinking. It’s not a terrible strategy. My point above though is what is the long term effect of such a strategy. Stinky said “screw the two points in October” to which Lou had the fantastic response “[h]ow many points did we miss the playoffs by”. My response to that is could we not have gotten two more points with a healthy Matt Cullen in the lineup from December to the end of the season? Was there no time that a healthy dynamic center would have altered the course of a game such that the Canes came away better with him than without him?

I’ll grant that LaCouture is not the best option, but he is what we have.

After the Isles goal on the PP after Bayda’s penalty the score was 4-3 with 9:26 to go. That’s still a score that’s likely to get a point as long as the Canes don’t take a major penalty. Furthermore what’s to say that starting a fight doesn’t spark the rest of the team?

As Rutherford said on the article on TSN the Canes have seen four players take hits to the head. It’s known that you can take liberties with this team. The best extended play the Canes have had since winning the Cup was last year when Brookbank was allowed to police things. Overall I think Laviolette is on heck of a coach, but he’s dead wrong on this issue. What’s worse is that he seems to be ignoring the evidence pointing him to go in a different direction.

Even Cam was quoted in saying in the N&O yesterday “Dougie’s a good guy.”. Weight levels Sutter, then gets a +1 on the next powerplay and then nearly ties it up on a penalty shot.

I mean thanks Weight for nearly costing us the Cup with a bumbling penalty, taking millions in rental pay for a few months work, getting your name on the Cup and riding into the sunset.

“but it still will be hard to get it on Weight because he is not a fighter.”

True… he doesn’t usually fight…. but (possibly changing the subject a little bit here) didn’t Doug Weight fight against the Crapitals when they came here because one of their guys had gone after Staal?

He probably wouldn’t drop the goves w/ Brookbank… ummm…. that wouldn’t be very smart on his part…

I guess the over all point is that too often these things go unanswered…. and our “passive” nature seems to hurt us more than it helps….

Cory, Bubba, C-Leaguer, and Lou, great job on this one.

Seriously, the Canes won the game, and did not take stupid penalties for trying to exact some sort of revenge. I think the NHL should penalize head hits, but Weight’s actions were not outside the boundaries of good play in the league. It is terrible that Sutter got hurt, but it isn’t even comparable to the Orr hit on Cullen last year. That was a marginal hit by a marginal player, not a clean hit by a respected veteran.

What exactly do you guys think would have been good here, Brookbank trying to pound a turtling Doug Weight? That’s the kind of move that would have made the Canes look really classy.

Jeffrey,
I don’t think too many people are asking Brookbank to go out and pound someone. The problem, I feel, is that the Canes are known to be soft – step up the hitting, and the Hurricanes will crumble. It is a gameplan that has been used against the Hurricanes over and over, and one that Weight & the Islanders were probably subscribing to when going into the game. I think most fans want the team to toughen up in general – not “go out and exact revenge,” but there is a need for other teams to realize that the ‘Canes are tough and won’t be pushovers. So far, too many teams have taken too many runs (legal or not) at too many Hurricanes players, resulting in too many injuries. It is a problem that has been compounding for a few seasons.

Would be nice if we had a Lucic on the team. If Doug knew that a guy like Lucic would be lining up on him as a result, he would have definitely went fishing for the puck instead of finishing Sutter.

That’s what I’m talkin’ about, Wylde.

Why is no one talking about Gleason as a possaible enforcer? He will fight for his team when needed.

I totally agree the Canes need to be much tougher to play against physically, but I still fail to see, in the Sutter-Weight situation, what Wade Brookbank could have usefully contributed. Now if he could go out there and throw some devastating (clean) hits and give our team that kind of presence, great, but I don’t think he is quite that talented. Again, the sentiment in this thread seems to be a call for frontier justice, which in this case is silly.

McCoy — Gleason is a blood and guts guy, and old-time hockey player. If you heard any of his weekly interview on XM, they asked what he said to Weight, and Tim said something like, “That better have been a clean hit, because I’m going to watch it again.” Doug responded with, “It was clean,” and Tim fired back with, “It better have been, because we play three more times.”

Now, Tim’s prolly the baddest SOB on the team, but he has too much value to be the designated fighter/enforcer. But you’ll notice he is the first guy on the ice to come to a teammate’s aid (like him going after Nate Thompson after the attempted hit on Whitney). Tim handled the Sutter-Weight situation the way it should be handled. He didn’t overreact, but he let Doug know that the situation was going to monitored.

And guess whose dad also played on that Stanley Cup winning Islander’s team … yep, Brandon Sutter’s. Brent’s totally right about what would have happened to any guy making a hit like Weight made on Brandon back when he played though. His life would have been a living hell every time he faced off against that team! The guys would catch him in the corners and feed him a little bit of their sticks … some nice hard checks every time he touched the puck … anything and everything they could do to make sure he knew that they HADN’T forgotten what he had done!