Karmanos Blasts Laviolette
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 15, 2009 3:02 PM EST
26 comments
I'll let everyone make their own assessment of this post over at Canes Now., but here's some snippets of what owner Peter Karmanos told Chip Alexander about ex-coach Peter Laviolette:
- "I didn't like the old coach. His public persona and private persona were two different things."
- "We had the perfect storm in the year we won the Stanley Cup. We played this all-over-the-ice kind of style of hockey. It took about three-quarters of the season for people to catch on. If everybody remembers, the last part of the season, even the Stanley Cup year, we had a pretty tough go of it. We had a goalie who stood on his head. Martin Gerber had a career season with us and kept us in games, but pretty soon as the other coaches got used to the new rules and they figured out ways of defensing us, we didn't change much."
- "Peter would make, I think, too quick an evaluations of players. From time to time we had players who Peter, when they first came into our organization, would say, 'Oh, this guy is a fourth-line center.'"
OK, I actually can't just leave this totally alone.
- This seems like a personal attack, one that does no one any good. Nothing but raising eyebrows is accomplished by this.
- To me, this is an insult to the players that accomplished the feat. To say it was basically smoke and mirrors and a hot goalie is, to me, a slap in the face to everyone who had a part in the team winning the Stanley Cup.
- I can't speak to this because I'm not in the room when decisions are made. But seeing this is the first time Karmanos has spoken about the change, he's not in Raleigh enough to be in the know either. If he's relaying information told to him by GM Jim Rutherford, then say so.
Of all these, No. 2 bothers me the most. The personal criticism of Laviolette could maybe be chalked up to sour grapes, the boiling-over disappointment of an owner who's forced to pay someone who is still not with the organization. Alexander even reports that Karmanos called Laviolette a "nice person," so I'm willing to somewhat write off statement No. 1.
But to say, in a nutshell, that the Cup victory was a case of lightning in a bottle is not only an insult to the players and Laviolette, but also Rutherford and the entire organization. It's easy to pile on when things go bad, but Karmanos signed off on Laviolette's extension in the summer of 2006. If he saw a coach unwilling to adapt with a changing game during a Stanley Cup run, what did he think would happen if things didn't go so well? He also met face-to-face with Laviolette this past May to discuss the team's struggles the two previous seasons, with Rutherford — who was at the meeting — saying, "They had a really good meeting. Everything is the same. [Laviolette's job security] became a bigger issue than it needed to be."
So if we're to believe Karmanos that he felt teams were catching up to Carolina three-quarters of the way through a season when they won a championship, why did it take more than two years to make a change?
The 2006 extension? Even if Karmanos was against having Laviolette return, it would've been a brutal public relations move that a small market team can't afford. But if he was so skeptical of Laviolette's ability to lead this incarnation of the Hurricanes, there's no excuse for allowing him to start this season behind the bench.
Karmanos wants to have it both ways, but he can't. If he wants some credit for the glory, he has to take some blame for the shame.
(Update)
Joe Ovies has a bit more about this on 850 The Blog.
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One thing about the owner, he usually speaks his mind in an interview, even if less than diplomatic. Remember during the lockout, Gary Bettman had to put a gag order on him. (The rest of the owners as well, but he was one of the more outspoken).
Cory, I can see your point about the Cup run and Karmanos was certainly being harsh. But on the otherhand, what has this team of Cup champions done since the run? Maybe they all had career years in 2006, not just Gerber?
As the person who is currently paying this group of under-achievers, maybe this was a shot across the bow to the entire team, and deservedly so? Is Brind’Amour earning his 4 million this year? Is Cullen earning his pay? Are any of them? They can’t even put together solid portions of periods of consistent hockey, let alone entire games.
If the team just caught lightning in a bottle, then he and Mr. Rutherford greatly overpaid for the team’s services with all of the bloated contracts signed during that summer.
Maybe Karmanos is looking at the value he has received since the players signed those lucrative contracts and feels like it was indeed “lightning in a bottle” in retrospect. Who can blame him?
The interview might have been more of an indictment against the players than it was against Peter Laviolette.
(edit) Having said all of that, I still do not agree with how he threw Lavi under the bus at this point.
by Bubba on Jan 15, 2009 3:22 PM EST reply actions
Cory, you are en fuego here!
I read this on Chips blog and was so disgusted, I just navigated away. If Karmanos is so concerned about the club winning, then he would open the coffers a litte more and help get this club to the post season, generating more interest in the team from fans and businesses alike and generate himself some revenue, or at least break even.
by wylde4canes on Jan 15, 2009 3:25 PM EST reply actions
No class, no class, no class.
This is an insult to every member of the cup team from the
players, to the coaches and staff, and yes even the fans.
What could possibly be gained by airing these sentiments in a
public forum? Why throw the (former) coach under the bus? An example of juvenile behavior by someone old enough to know better.
I am ashamed to be a Canes fan today.
by JohnS on Jan 15, 2009 3:41 PM EST reply actions
poor form, poor timing, poor desicion. Hmmm for someone so rich, that is a lot of poverty.
by wylde4canes on Jan 15, 2009 3:54 PM EST reply actions
I’m pretty disgusted with his comments too. Let’s hope Bubba’s right and he’s just trying to stir up the pot a little and ignite a fire under the players. But if that’s the case, then what’s the point of trashing Lavi? It just seems like a shitty thing to do for absolutely no reason.
Geez, and I thought Florida had no class after that Jokinen-under-the-bus incident. Well, no, I still think that’s worse.
by Andrea on Jan 15, 2009 3:59 PM EST reply actions
What a classless ungrateful pr*ck.
Look at the way Lavi conducted himself after being fired compared to this. He has more class in his pinky toe than Karmanos has in his whole body on a good day. EMBARRASSING.
by Shut It on Jan 15, 2009 5:19 PM EST reply actions
Calling their cup run a perfect storm certainly taints it doesn’t it? Maybe he needs to look a little closer at the tight little family he keeps. Rutherford, although the master of a few good moves, was not consistently better than lavvi was. Every good move you can name for JR, there is at least one sour one to go against it. Rutherford is a .500 GM, and no better. His team is basically a .500 team, and no better. They are a blue collar team that has trouble playing such a skilled game. Invest in blue collar players, and that’s what you get. A team with great chemistry, but it does take a perfect storm for them to win it all.
Unfortunately, once again, they are destined this season to fight for the 8th spot in the playoffs, not the top seeds.
What will he say if they just miss the playoffs again? I guess he can say it was Lavvi’s fault,for not getting the team off to a better than .500 start, but its more than likely, that Maurice will not have done much better.
So does that set the stage for the latest family member to step in? If I were Francis, I’d think hard about taking the job if offered, because if they don’t make the playoffs, he will be stepping into an unbelievable pressure situation. Not to mention working for an owner who has now demonstrated how easily he is willing to toss his coach under the bus, and blind himself to the other troubles in the organization.
by Bruce on Jan 15, 2009 5:40 PM EST reply actions
I am really disappointed by what PK had to say, the time he said it and the way he said it. There is no reason to throw Lavi under the bus at this point, especially in light of how classy he was after he was fired. I agree with the previous posters (and you Cory) that by calling the Cup run a fluke, he is insulting everyone involved with the team at that time. If he feels that current players aren’t living up to their potential, or earning their pay, then that should be addressed individually and in private. A little tact and class go a long way and comments like these are going to get this franchise in the news for all the wrong reasons. This team, and its fanbase, does not need these negative comments right now. Things are tough enough without rarely seen owner fueling the fire.
by caniacgirl on Jan 15, 2009 5:41 PM EST reply actions
I guess I can look at it two ways here, Or i guess find some good in an otherwise horiable statement. PK atleast speaks his mind and is not afraid of the back lash.
That is about the only good thing i can say about that.
PL IMO is a good coach, there were draw backs of coarse. He kinda stunk up the joint for two years, but i think alot of that has got to be put on the canes belife in having on freisen on the med staff (as we have talked about in the past) injuries galore would be the title of the book writen for those two season.
I think that PL is the type of coach that will work out very well for a team for two or three years. He would be the guy that would take a talented team that under achieves and bring a cup (or atleast a run) to said team. But I do beleive that He is of the mold of a Larry Brown or a Parcels. Meaning that his best years will be the first few, afterwards the team will need another voice to take the next step. (this is my vote for PL to coach the us hockey team,lol)
Basically what PK said was the same thing that jerry jones said about jimmy johnson. “any number of 50 coaches could have won a championship with this team”. I lost alot of respect for him today. I dont know if I will ever look at him the same, atleast Jerry Jones was drunk when he made his comments.
Now im willing to bet that PL will have more class than to respond harshly (with in reason) to these comments. I still wish him well and hope that he can throw this back in the face of pk (and i guess canes fans) on the ice.
To say the least im not very pleased at the moment.
by Charles on Jan 15, 2009 6:33 PM EST reply actions
1) Very surrpising to read this. We suppose Lavy won’t be replacing Maurice. ; )
2) Whats the purpose of saying anything at this point? It serves no greater good to pile on a former employee. Its not like peter has been doing a melrose and bashing the Canes, right?
by fauxrumors on Jan 15, 2009 6:58 PM EST reply actions
I think the truth hurts, gang. PK is right on. Lavi shit sneaked most of the way through. Lavi and JR had a pretty good plan, just shy on talent. They over came that by making the whole team, believe. The Herb Brooks thing. That team and obviously every one since couldn’t match any of the subsequent winners. That’s why we haven’t even been to the PO’s since. Whine and bitch all you want. That team wasn’t the most talented, they were in the best position to play a new game. That said, they did, they went all the way and within the rules. But a dick of a coach in Lavi, lack of major talent from top to bottom and we have had short seasons ever since. Take the emotion out and look at the facts. We came in and played a new style of game. we adjusted the fastes t and best. As soon as that little trick was figured out we have been a non factor. I also agree that Lavi made crap choices on who played and who left. I would of canned him the year after the cup. You may agree or disagree, but the fact remains he did squat after that.
here’s the facts:
You can win all the battles and lose the war. Lavi is living proof, he had some dismal seasons with fair talent. I’d say Mo did more with less, except this eason.
next, what, you guys like losers? The Canes have been losers since the cup.
PERIOD. You don’t make the playoffs, you are a loser. Go chuck back your Ritalin or Lithium and face facts.
Next, PK owns the team, if you are small enough to say he has less of a say than a loser of a coach, you are playing very well into my fear of chasing this team away.
Anyone that thinks Lavi should stay needs to get back on the meds, that guy was a cancer and we are still trying to fix the damage.
Pull your head out, get off your knees or whatever.
PK was Johnny On The Spot.
Anyone hear Gleason in the first intermission? That was first sign of life and fire. ’Course we are two down now.
maybe you can’t handle the truth, but this team is far better without losin’ lavi. He was a conceded, non leader, that got canned because he sucked and fucked up a potential having team.
Going against the GM and Owner and missing the playoffs is a death nell and should be.
A
by Paladin6 on Jan 15, 2009 8:35 PM EST reply actions
Like I said, lavi deserved to get fired, no bout a doubt it. i just really thing that there is a better way of going about it. Is he expected to take the TB job or somthing, why in the hell do you bring it up now? I think that this team is short on talent and on heart. that is what the problem is, and i dont even think that herb brooks (god rest his sould) could even fix that.
by Charles on Jan 15, 2009 8:59 PM EST reply actions
Or Scotty Bowman.
Sutter is the best center tonight, Cullen is second and Stall is third, Rod’s a waste of sweat. It’s 4-0, I’m done.
this sucks. This could be better. If would of kept Rod down, i think they would be playing better. Staal has to produce more, period. Bouncing the wingers around only messes them up. Not sure why the D has been so bad, just no chemistry.
You think PK and JR are watching the game or making plans?
A
by Paladin6 on Jan 15, 2009 9:05 PM EST reply actions
Phone dying – must post more later!
Karmanos: classless, embarrassing, ungrateful, disrespectful, arrogant, condescending, dismissive, egotistical, petty…and of course – cheap.
Excellent post, Cory.
by Sunny on Jan 15, 2009 11:09 PM EST reply actions
Karmonos is an idiot. Yesterday just proved it. “This is a playoff team” — maybe in the AHL, not in the NHL, dude.
by Capt. Stinky on Jan 16, 2009 6:45 AM EST reply actions
This team is in disarray & needs to be rebuilt. There are a few players I do like & hope they get to stick around, (Gleason, Rutuu, Pitkannen, Walker, LaRose, Sutter & most of the Rats) but otherwise, this team should have been in rebuilding mode last season.
by marc on Jan 16, 2009 8:35 AM EST reply actions
With how the poor the team is performing on the ice, why is that coming out now. The coach is no longer here and and to insult your own team for winning the Cup is just ludicrous to me. While to an extent, some of what PK says is true, why is it being said no. The timing of it is horrible. With that being said, I think expectations have been too high for this team. Yes they won the Cup, but that wasn’t because they had the best talent, everything just worked out for them that year. They were healthy, got some career years out of some players, made some key trades, etc. The truth is they are a “blue collar” team that will struggle every year. I think when Staal had that 100 point season, most people believed that was what he would do every year. Hate to break the news people, Staal is not that player. He has the ability to dominate every game but don’t think he ever will. He is more like that 75-80 point guy (if we are lucky). So in some ways maybe PK is trying to light the fire, but I don’t know if I like his approach.
by Adam on Jan 16, 2009 8:43 AM EST reply actions
well…. I can buy into some of the things he said regarding the former coach… There was a reason he was run off of long island before he came here…
But still… I’d say “pick your spots.” There is no point whatsoever in saying these things in front of the audience of the Raleigh Sports Council. Or in the news papers… or on the TV… he should have kept it to himself.
Maybe: (1) he is saying that this is a playoff team so he doesn’t have to feel bad about not paying to put an actual playoff team on the ice. and (2) by going public he may know that he is pissing off the fan base therefore making it easier to completely destroy the fan support for this team and making it easier to back out on the lease in two seasons and send it packing to Toledo for the 2011-2012 season.
ahhh.. he should have just kept it to himself….
by Mateo on Jan 16, 2009 9:20 AM EST reply actions
Do you all really think that he wants to move the team? Have there been any credible talks about this?
by Jonathan on Jan 16, 2009 10:53 AM EST reply actions
I would not be surprised if Karmonas has some inside info on an interview that Lavi has done that will be coming out soon throwing Karmonas under the bus and he beat him to the punch. Just saying…
With the results of the last 2 seasons and so far this season, I agree with Bubba, what have these players done for this organization since the cup run except lose the seasons? Sometimes the truth hurts, if the players feel bashed then they need to grow some balls, get off their asses and play some hockey otherwise they should just go to their golf courses this summer, get traded and get over it. Since they don’t seem to care about how they are playing for this organization and it’s fans, why should we care about their egos being challenged. What goes around, comes around.
Right now the team I have been supporting have been nothing but an AHL caliber team with the way they have been playing.
I need hockey, so it will just have to do for now.
Go Canes.
C
by Caron on Jan 16, 2009 11:05 AM EST reply actions
If I were PL or any of the current ‘Canes players or staff, I wouldn’t give a rat’s behind what PK says. How many times has PK laced them up in the NHL? So what does he know about winning one game let alone a championship? I would say EFF him, let’s go win some hockey games.
Maybe this will turn into a situation like in the movie “Major League” where the team rallys against the owner to put together a winning season. I just hope there is no lifesize cutout of PK that gets a piece of clothing removed every time the Canes win.
by NoVa Caniac on Jan 16, 2009 11:17 AM EST reply actions
I don’t really BELIEVE he wants to move the team…. No… but at the same time… IF HE DID just up and move them… it would not shock me. I love the Hurricanes… but by most accounts the team owner is a grizzled and seasoned bastard… I mean… veteran of hockey team ownership…
by Mateo on Jan 16, 2009 12:27 PM EST reply actions
NoVa is the early frontrunner for funny comment of the year … can’t shake Karmanos cutout image from my brain, but instead of “You guys stink!” in the speech bubble it says, “That other Peter stinks!”
by Cory on Jan 16, 2009 12:33 PM EST reply actions
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