"Bin" Sinnin' some more: A progress report on the Hurricanes' penalty problem
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 25, 2009 7:24 PM EDT
73 comments
Two weeks ago, the Carolina Hurricanes were five games into the 2009-10 season, and the blame for the team's weak start was, to a great extent, blamed on the plethora of penalties the team had found itself killing off, over and over again. Here at Canes Country, our story analyzed these penalties to see if we could better understand the cause of our woes and perhaps even uncover a way to reduce them.
In that analysis, the Penalties in Minutes were divided between Major and Minor penalties. Then, the Minor minutes, which made the team so frequently short-handed on the ice, were further differentiated into "Aggression" types, which we characterized as "Good" or "Worth It", and "Positional" types, which we considered to be "Bad" or "Lazy".
You can review the original story, its reasoning, and its conclusions here: "Bin" there, Done that: Uncharacteristic penalties trip up Carolina
So folks, here we are two weeks and five more games (and five more losses) into the season, and after hearing the dreaded whistle ten (count'em, ten) times last night in the OT loss to the Minnesota Wild, I've repeated the exercise. Let's take a look at what is now 10 games on the books, to see what's changed, what's improved, and alas, where the Canes just can't get it right.
FIrst off, here is the break down of total penalties in minutes:
| Game (opponent) | TOTAL CAR PIM | Majors and misconducts (minutes) | Minors (minutes) |
| First 5 games | 122 | 40 | 82 |
| PIT | 8 | 0 | 8 |
| NJD | 13 | 5 | 8 |
| NYI | 11 | 5 | 6 |
| COL | 47 | 35 | 12 |
| MIN | 23 | 5 | 18 |
| Second 5 games | 102 | 50 | 52 |
| TOTAL for 10 games | 224 | 90 | 134 |
The first 5 games we had 82 minutes in minor penalties, (the ones that lead to the disruptive and exhausting penalty kills) or over 16 PIM/game . Good news: Until last night, we stayed at or below 12 PIM, and averaged less than 11 minutes per game over the last 5 games. That's a reduction of over 30% - well done!
Next up, let's see how those minors break down between aggression varieties (roughing, cross-checking, elbowing) which we've asserted are acceptable and those that are caused by being out of position.
| Game (opponent) | Minor penalties called | ||
| Minors | Aggression | Positional | |
| First 5 games | 41 | 8 | 33 |
| PIT | 4 | 0 | 4 |
| NJD | 4 | 0 | 4 |
| NYI | 3 | 0 | 3 |
| COL | 6 | 0 | 6 |
| MIN | 9 | 3 | 6 |
| Second 5 games | 26 | 3 | 23 |
| TOTAL for 10 games | 67 | 11 | 56 |
This is not-so-good news. For the first five games, 20% of the minor penalties fell into the "Aggression" column. For games 6 through 10, while the number of minor penalties dropped - great! - we see a jump in the proportion of those that were "positional". Nearly 90% of the minor penalties the last five games accomplished nothing but cold feet in the sin bin and one remarkable goalie forced to work like a madman to keep his team in the game with these 23 additional and unnecessary short-handed scenarios.
Remember seeing Sergei Samsonov's name at the top of the heap 2 weeks ago, with 10 minutes in bad penalties? I am glad to report that Sammy has turned that around and has not been to the box once since then. And remember the kudos I gave to Aaron Ward for his smart penalty-free play? Forget that now. Take a look at the current breakdown:
| # of positional minors | |||
| Player | 1st 5 | 2nd 5 | Total |
| Eric Staal | 3 | 3 | 6 |
| Jay Harrison | 4 | 1 | 5 |
| Joni Pitkanen | 2 | 3 | 5 |
| Stephane Yelle | 2 | 3 | 5 |
| Sergei Samsonov | 4 | 0 | 4 |
| Rod Brind`Amour | 2 | 2 | 4 |
| Aaron Ward | 0 | 4 | 4 |
| Matt Cullen | 3 | 0 | 3 |
| Ray Whitney | 1 | 2 | 3 |
It is important to remember that the man at the top of the bad boyz list above, Eric Staal, leads all forwards with 220 minutesTOI. And Aaron Ward is fourth in that category with 188 minutes, but has significantly less ice-time the last 5 games than the first 5, when he was penalty-free. It seems that our man AWard has some 'splainin' to do. And how's about Joni Pitkanen tied for 2nd above? His lingering knee "discomfort" cost him a lot of ice-time, putting him way down at 15th for total TOI on the roster, with 118 minutes for the season. That's disappointing to see him so high on the list above, when his offensive and defensive acumen has been so outstanding since he returned to play in the game with the Devils last week.
Six players have made two trips to the box for positional minors in these 10 games: Andrew Alberts, Jussi Jokinen, Niclas Wallin, Chad LaRose, Scott Walker and Tuomo Ruutu
Two players have been there only once for "laziness and/or bad choices": Joe Corvo, Tim Gleason Corvo is especially remarkable with his team-leading 271 minutes TOI and just the one hooking call, way back in the mayhem in Boston, October 3rd. Wow! Nothing "uh-oh" about those numbers.
So who's left with clean play? Erik Cole and Tim Conboy have less than 40 minutes TOI this season and neither has been called for a penalty that has lead to Penalty Kills (not often you see the term "penalty free" associated with Tim Conboy, eh?) Good enough - but here's a hockeymom glove-tap to Tom Kostopoulos, with the most totally penalty-free minutes (over 91 minutes TOI in 10 games.) Not bad for a new guy.
So is there anything else we can feel good about? Let's look at the remarkable improvement of the Penalty Kill:
| Game (opp) | W or L | Score (Canes first) | PK% | PP goals allowed | ES goals allowed |
| First 5 games | 2-3-0 | 14-17 | 78% | 8 | 9 |
| PIT | SO-L | 2-3 | 100% | 0 | 2 |
| NJD | L | 0-2 | 100% | 0 | 2 |
| NYI | SO-L | 3-4 | 100% | 0 | 3 |
| COL | L | 4-5 | 71% | 2 | 3 |
| MIN | OTL | 2-3 | 86% | 1 | 2 |
| Second 5 games | 0-2-3 | 11-17 | 88% | 3 | 12 |
| TOTAL for 10 games | 2-5-3 | 25-34 | 82% | 11 | 21 |
| (2 on SO) |
This is definitely something to build on. The Canes took a ho-hum 78% Penalty Kill rate the first 5 games and brought it to a top-shelf success rate of 88% these last 5 games, with 2 of the 3 goals allowed against the league-leading power play squad of the Avalanche. And while the first analysis after 5 games showed 47% of goals allowed came short-handed, that ratio the last 5 games has dropped to only 20%. I, for one, am impressed. Once again, we owe this success in some measure to D-man Joe Corvo who leads all skaters in short-handed minutes by a wide margin.
However, let's also hold up for careful consideration the fact that the primary backbone of "The Kill" these 10 games has been the Canes' workhorse in goal, Cam Ward. And the question I have, after all this: How much more can and should the Hurricanes ask of Wardo for the remaining 72 games before this season completely falls apart?
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I think a lot of it has to do with the skating ability (or lack thereof) we’ve shown so far this season. We just don’t have many strong skaters on the team. Turnovers that should be giving us odd-man rushes are quickly caught from behind. The same bad skating is what is causing guys to grab and hook when they get beat on defense. We beefed up during the offseason, but instead of pushing us around teams are just simply skating around us this year.
Still not a crook!
First of all, what a tour de force, hockeymomof2.
Very impressive compilation of statistics, presentation of information, and analysis of the data.
Going back in for a re-read, but just had to remark on the content of the post before moving to analysis.
when you look at the 1st 10 games and think we’ve had a total of 79 penalties for 224 minutes (minor & majors) WOW, just WOW…something has GOT to change. There have only been 2 games with less than 5 penalties, some serious disciplinary issues. I think some of it just boils down to frustration, especially from Staal, he wears it on his sleeve. Good job HM!!!
Well, nice job.......
This is very enlightening. It goes to show our entire team….just about…..is lazy.
Ok, not the case. I would be interested to know what proportion of the penalties are no doubters …… questionable ….. then phantom. I would like to believe it is the team and that is an adjustment. I hope this is not the calls on the ice. Tripp and John keep eluding to phantom calls and hhhmmmm. I didn’t see that one. I agree with them. I know that is a lot of work but I would like to see those stats. Nice work. I am impressed.
Veterans
Not only are we a half-step behind (see lack of collective and individual jump referenced in other posts), but old habits die hard.
Some of our vets just cannot seem to help themselves when caught like that. Their stick comes off the ice, goes parallel, and reaches for that skater like it had a mind of its own.
I see them catch themselves at times, but sometimes too late to avoid the call.
The interpretation of the rules have changed (for the better!) about what constitutes interference. And, unfortunately, it exposes lack of effort, such as ours.
Good Write-up
The PK is doing it’s job pretty well, and we’ve had some good short-handed chances, but it’s pretty much impossible to win a game 4 on 5. I just don’t get what’s happened to our discipline. Ward’s not the problem, the D has quirks but isn’t fudge-ing up royal. I think Mo should go to a pure merit based system for the forwards. Show me a Samsinov, Cullen, Jussi first line (and notice their penalty numbers), just anything to knock the Canes out of this funk!
Passing seems to be an issue too
I swear we can’t seem to complete a nice clean tape-to-tape pass to save our lives. I don’t know if we can’t pass because no one is in position, or if no one is in position because we can’t pass for crap. Or maybe we’re just slow. But we seem to be chasing the puck all the time which leads to never beeing in position, which leads to frustration, which leads to these positional penalties, rinse and repeat.
- being in position, not beeing, although I wish we were buzzing a little more.
HM, excellent analysis! (as always)
Oh, and one more thing… the picture you chose – that’s my jersey!
It’s from Glen Wesley night, you can see the number 2 on the left shoulder under the flag logo. I won that jersey on NHL Auctions.
2 minutes for holding Chara. hahahahahaha
I saw that! I really wanted a picture of AWard or Pits or even Staal headed thru the gate, but no google searches turned that up. I actually believe Ruutu deserved better – it hasn’t been a good weekend for the Finn.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 25, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
But Ruuty has sisu.
sisu? is that Finnish word or a lady friend?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 25, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Sisu
Sisu is one of the highest compliments you can pay a Finn. It means a combination of bravery and courage and will to an almost absurd degree. And it describes our Ruuty quite well.
It does – what another great Finnish moment with LTD.
(Gee – I was kinda hoping to see what a Ruu-GF looked like).
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 25, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure you’re “all over this”, LTD but Chip just put up some comments from Ruutu about the hit from this morning. (via Canes Now)
“It was a bad hit by me,” Ruutu said. “I wasn’t really worried about the suspension. I was worried about the guy. It looked pretty bad. It just happened. I think he’s doing better. I’m so sorry about what happened but everything happened so quickly. I wish I could get it back but I can’t. I’m happy that nothing really serious happened,”
Ruutu said. “I talked to him and I was glad to hear that he was doing better. He was really good to me and that makes me feel a little better.”Ruutu said the suspension did not surprise him, that he sensed the league would “send a message.” “It is what it is,” he said. “They make the decision and I’m fine with it.”
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 26, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Manning up just like I expected he would. And he was business as usual at practice today, working hard and staying late.
Yep, I wasn’t sure either but asked around. He’s allowed to practice with the team. He skated 4th line for most of the drills with Yelle and Kostopoulos, and did a few drills with Jussi. Stayed late and practiced shooting drills until past 12:30 when they ran us out of the RBCC. Tossed a couple of pucks over the glass. Got a big hug from Staal and lots of taps of encouragement from several of the players and coaches.
I twitpic’d him a few minutes ago (Brandon too).
That one of Ruuty is so good I imported it here. I didn’t know he’d look so hot in orange:
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 26, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya gotta plan? I’m in.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 26, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
No offense taken. The scar is perfect.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 26, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m dissappointed all the way around. Yes sisa is a waord and as described.
The example are paltry
I would submit to any of you two words to submit to the cretins over at wikpedia. For if indeed the word came from WWII, as I expect it was for these two short words:
Samo Hayha
He was the “White Death” and if you past the Enemy At The Gates, you were only second best, because he was and is the best that ever was.
You want to talk about heroic Finns it starts and ends with him.
PERIOD.
Lesson is adjurned.
A
Thx for the heroic Finns lesson...
now time for your grammar and spelling lessons?
:)
OK, so if I go get tickets tomorrow for blues, shall I get one for you too?
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 26, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Only if you get the game moved up a day. I’m pretty sure it’s on Wednesday, but yes, I’d like that. I’ll go beat some clothes on rocks down in the stream redneck laundry style.
email me havenofvirgina@gmail.com
iron out the details.
BTW, if you do get the game moved up, I’m good then, too. The spelling on the other hand is tough. I type phoeneticly with maybe 4 fingers, sorry. Hey, i’m using paragraphs now at least. Baby steps!!
See ya,
A
LOL, no I was going to go to the RBC-C tomorrow, watch practice, get tickets… game is still Wed…
Good luck with your laundry, though…
:)
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 26, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Good question! from here:
Of the 11 Short Handed Goals allowed,
1 came when the Canes were down 3-4,
2 were 3-5,
8 were 4-5.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 25, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
he said he’d be off here for a couple weeks, I think… he pulled a Staal-esque tantrum the other day and I think put himself in the sin bin for a week… at least that was my impression
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 26, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea, I just found out last night. I’ve been burning up his email and got a respo. at last. I am now shaming him into coming back, I hope. I’m going to keep pounding away at him until he returns to defend his honor. I miss his posts. Shoot if we exiled people for outbursts, life would be dull.
A
I defended Yelle in a thread a week or so ago, but wow. How is this guy taking so many minors when he is only on the ice a couple of minutes a game at even strength plus some penalty kill time?
Same here … there’s value in what he brings, but he looks like 2007-08 Whitney with all the obstruction minors.
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 26, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m with ya. Holy cripe man, how’d you get that tid bit, I can’t find it anywhere yet? I figure we have to pay half so someone will pick up Yelle this afternoon for a song.
A
Looks like the storm front may be here…?
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 26, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Man I hope so. I’d run another rant about the lack of forethought, pre-season, etc, but figure I’ll wear the letters off the key board by hitting the same ones over and over and over…
LCD is in pretty good spirits BTW. Sassy as ever! He says it’s a double minor, not a game misconduct so he’s urking around and will be back in several days.
He feels bad at taking umbrage to something not even directed at him and cussing.
He seems like a pretty good guy, I figure he’s back soon…..maybe that means Cole goes on waivers???
;-)
A
skating is key issue
in addition to all the penalties we’re taking because we don’t skate, look at how the lack of a speedy winger like cole is holding us back from forcing other teams to take penalties. the mo style is killing us so far this year; i’m not saying pinch-pinch-pinch like lavi, but at least put one speed guy on each line and outlet the pass quicker on his tape and let him fly. sick of seeing rosie pinned against the boards at center ice and losing the puck, he either needs to speed up or give up the puck quicker, he’s too soft on the puck.
argh
headline from espn ticker:
Carolina Hurricanes’ Teemu Ruutu banned 3 games for hit on Colorado Avalanche’s Darcy Tucker
I wonder how you say Rodney Dangerfield in Finnish?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 26, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Defending Yelle
Yelle was brought in to be the fourth line center and a penalty killer. He was expecting 8 to 10 minutes a night with I’d say about a third of that being PK and the rest being even strength. I’d be curious to know how much PK time he’s taking because of the exceedingly large number of penalties the team is taking. If anyone knows a site where you can get a TOI breakdown by PK vs PP vs ES, let me know.
I think a lot of the problem is that he is being asked to do more than he can because of the penalties from the rest of the team which is leading to his penalties? He’s 0 on the +/-, so he’s not a defensive liability when he’s on the ice. He’s decent in the faceoff circle. He’s also cagey and makes opposing teams defenses do things they don’t want to do.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
You then need to select Team: Hurricanes and the Report Type: “TOI” and then the resulting spreadsheet is sortable by clicking on the column heading of your choice..
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 26, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the link
Kind of shocked to see so little PK time vs ES time, but with only ten games I wonder how much of that is being skewed by the Florida game which was his highest TOI game.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
+/- doesn’t count against you while you’re on the PK – that’s half his TOI right there.
Looking at HMom’s link – he hasn’t even been a top PKer.
My only gripe is he’s been a non-factor aside from his penalties. I know your 4th center is rarely if ever going to wow you, but I use to always noticed when the Adam’s family was on the ice. Now it’s like “whotf is #18? Oh yeah…”
Hmph – Yelle and Brindy are the only 2 above 50% on faceoffs…
I think part of the reason he’s been a non-factor has to do with Conboy being on that line. While Conboy has played well within himself, he’s not even what I would call a fourth line player. The time Yelle spent with Walker and TKO on that line he worked well.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Richards hit on Booth
Is there a reason the Flyer’s Richards gets no suspension for his hit on Booth? It certainly looks more malicious than Ruutu’s as Richards appears to be gunning right for Booth’s head from the get go. Just an honest question if anyone has any insight on why Ruutu is slapped with a 3-game suspension and Richards gets no disciplinary action.
Steve Ott and somebody else with low hits......
The league dropped two more suspensions today seems like they are trying to make a statement this season.
The other one was only a fine, I think…
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 27, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
true, it was technically legal. I’m curious though – where were the other two hits (Ott and Scuderi) on the technically legal scale? I don’t have a sense of these things.
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 27, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t either really. The whole thing is a little murky, especially the hits to the head part. I’m guessing since Scuderi’s only earned him a fine it’s less illegal than Ott. Although Ott has a reputation so maybe that is what got him the suspension instead? From what I’ve read/heard/seen, the Ott one was the worse of the two (but not as bad as Ruutu’s) because Colaiacovo was seriously hurt whereas Chimera (the victim of Scuderi’s hit) wasn’t. Also Ott’s hit was late which adds a whole other level of “illegality” to it.
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