Unfortunately, Trading Ray Whitney Makes Sense
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 29, 2009 5:07 PM EDT
297 comments
The Carolina Hurricanes are 11 games into the 2009-10 NHL season, 11 games filled with frustration, penalties, poor play and ... well, more penalties. It's hard to point the finger in any one direction. A combination of offensive ineptitude, special team struggles and untimely defensive errors have all sunk the Canes at different moments in this still-young campaign, with the mistakes coming from all corners of the locker room.
Coach Paul Maurice has tried just about every trick in his repertoire: shuffling lines, repositioning players, focusing on avoiding ill-advised infractions, preaching defense, praying for offense. Nothing is working. So it's time for Jim Rutherford to step in — and boldly. It's time to trade Ray Whitney.
Rutherford has tried subtle tactics to motivate his team, including sending newcomer Stephane Yelle through waivers and calling up Brandon Sutter from Albany. The first was a warning shot to every veteran on the team. The second was a reminder that there are young, hungry players waiting for a chance. Neither seems to have worked. If Rutherford wants to save the season, he needs to make a move that will rock his team the core. Enter Whitney.
There's no denying that Whitney has been one of the players holding up his end of the bargain this season. Like last season, he's atop the Canes scoring leaders with four goals and four assists. He's had several momentum-shifting goals, tallies that mostly failed to get his teammates to rise to the occasion, but nonetheless provided hope. He's been a leader and producer for Carolina. and horribly underrated — look no further than The Hockey News leaving him off the list of the NHL's top-20 left wings, behind inferior players like Ryan Malone (15), Scott Hartnell (16) and fellow underappreciated forward J-P Dumont (20).
But while the Canes have struggled, Whitney has continued to play like a player a decade younger than his 37 years. He skated in his 1,000th NHL regular season game Oct. 21, a milestone few would have expected from a 5-foot-10* winger who filled the scoresheet in juniors but lacked the size to make NHL scouts drool. (*generous listing)
On Sunday, the Canes will honor Whitney's achievement at the RBC Center prior to the team's game against the San Jose Sharks, the team that selected Whitney in the second round — 23rd overall — in 1991. So you give Whitney the honor he deserves. Then you thank him, and send him to Chicago on Monday.
In the final year of his deal, Whitney makes sense for the cash-strapped Blackhawks. With Jonathan Toews, Duncan Keith and Patrick Kane all due new deals following this season — and each should get at least $5 million a season, if not significantly more — Chicago needs to prepare for the inevitable: you can't keep everyone.
Departed GM Dave Tallon made several mistakes in assembling this team: he overpaid Brian Campbell, a very good offensive defenseman, giving him No. 1 d-man money for a No. 3 guy; and he screwed up in signing journeyman goalie Crisotal Huet to a four-year, $22.5 million deal to be his No. 1 netminder, a job he has yet to firmly grab a hold of. Then, Offer Sheetgate, with Kris Versteeg and Cam Barker earning big paydays (more than $3 million annually each) because of a paperwork error that would've kept the two emerging stars on the cheap for another season. Sprinkle in the signing of injured Marian Hossa and several other players looking for new contracts after this season, and you have, simply put, a mess.
Acquiring Whitney could alleviate some of the money problem while improving the Hawks' chance at winning the Stanley Cup this season. First off, he's in the final year of a contract that pays him $3.55 million annually. Second, he's an upgrade at left wing, where ex-Cane Andrew Ladd is the only natural playing in the spot. On top of adding a left wing, the Blackhawks would get an elite passer up front, something they lack outside of Kane. In return, Carolina could get back one of the $3 million-club youngsters (Dave Bolland, Versteeg, Dustin Byfuglien or Cam Barker) or sniper Patrick Sharp, who is set to take up $3.9 million in cap space through 2011-12.
Bolland, frankly, is overpaid. And while Sharp's scoring prowess, Versteeg's creativity, Byfuglien's size would all help the Canes patch up an area of need, it's Barker who would add the most to the Hurricanes.
Barker would add offensive punch to a struggling blueline, and also serve as the long-term replacement for Joe Corvo, whose deal expires following this year. At 6-foot-3 and 213 pounds, Barker has desirable size and isn't afraid to use it. His ability to play the point on the power play — he had six goals and 40 points last season — would allow Eric Staal to return to the front lines with the man advantage and free up fellow point patrolmen Corvo, Joni Pitkanen and Matt Cullen. Plus, Barker' is no slouch in the point shot department himself.
With a $3.083 million cap hit through 2011-12, the Hawks may need to offset more cash, perhaps in the way of recent waiver claim Andrew Ebbett ($500,000 this year). They also will likely want a premium for the talented Barker, who was chosen after only Alexander Ovechkin and Evgeni Malkin in the 2004 Entry Draft in — you guessed it — Raleigh. A draft pick and/or mid-level prospect (Bryan Rodney? Nick Dodge?) might be enough. Or maybe a swap of Brent Sopel (too pricey at $2 million this season and next, $2.33 million cap hit) for Andrew Alberts ($1.05 million cap hit this year and next) would be desirable to Chicago?
The Canes could then carve out a more significant full-time role for Brandon Sutter or even Zach Boychuk — a player Whitney himself said would take his spot one day — while shaking up the team and adding a valuable piece for now and the future. Chicago would improve their chances at a title this year and, though lose a valuable young asset, clear cap space to re-sign Toews, Kane and Keith.
With Campbell untradeable, Seabrook valuable and Keith irreplaceable, the Hawks simply can't afford to shell out more than $3 million a year to Barker as a No. 4 defenseman. And in Whitney they'd get a winner, a player who knows how to overcome the odds and spur his team to victory.
And the Canes — despite losing an important and admired player and man — might just turn things around.
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I would hate to see him go… but something (anything) needs to be done to light a fire while the season is still at a salvageable point….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 5:11 PM EDT reply actions
Unless Cory knows something we don’t Whitney isn’t and will never leave Carolina. Plus he isn’t one I would throw out there for trade bait.
I don’t see this either. Another great candidate for being sold at the deadline. Joe Corvo has shown zero indication during his stay here that he intends to come back here at the end of his deal.
Here you go......
Harrison
Conboy
A.Ward
Wallin (not sure he can be, but it would be nice)
Leighton
Cole
Rod
Thats all I’d give up for now…………later in the season maybe I could add to the list.
Although this is his last year on his contract so I’m not sure how that will work unless we just let him walk after the season (which is what will happen).
I think that's what will happen.
I’m pretty sure Nic’s feeling is either retire here or go back to Sweden. So unless he has an outstanding season and JR resigns him, I don’t think we’ll see him in the NHL after this season.
Wallin has a no trade…. and is a “lifer.”
I know I am the only hurricanes fan who likes him… but I am in favor of keeping Wallin….
Joe Corvo on the other hand can get lost any day now… it is obvious that he hates being here and is not having fun (ever see him smile? He is even a buzz kill at the STH Party…)
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Corvo is just like that.
I think he’s just really shy which comes across as arrogance and disdain. He’s clearly uncomfortable being the center of attention-which is when we’re likely to see him (interviews, STH events, etc). Plus, I would get frustrated with people standing four inches from me while asking me the same 4 questions over and over again.
I’ve seen him smile/joke around a few times, it’s rare, but it does happen. And it’s always with Tripp or his teammates (which are the people he probably feels the most comfortable with; well Tripp maybe not so much, but I think he was laughing at Tripp, not with him).
You’re not the only one who likes Wallin. He’s just been the black sheep of many Canes fans since he used his NTC two years ago.
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry he’s not a lifer his contracts up after this season and I don’t see them resigning him.
by canescup on Oct 29, 2009 9:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wallin is one of my favorite players. I always catch shit for it too. I want a #7 jersey but am unwilling to pay the extra $$$ for a personalized, and you can’t find Wallin jerseys on the rack…….
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
Wallin is slower than I'd like
but he’s not a liability in any other situation. He’s controlled and measured. What’s to dislike about him?
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Go ahead and tell me who in their right mind would give us anything for Harrison, Conboy, or Leighton.
Corvo and Whitney are the most tradeable because their contracts run out after this season.
Rental players are what most teams are looking for when getting over that hump.
See: Doug Weight, Mark Recchi 2006.
If you are willing to throw the rest of this season away, then trade them. I’m saying it’s to early to let some of our best players go.
On that point we agree. Closer to march deadline ideally.
by Iggy Reilly on Oct 29, 2009 5:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
There’s no market for any of these guys.
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 29, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice to know half our team is garbage nobody wants. But I guess we knew that already.
by canescup on Oct 29, 2009 9:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Really? What’s the market?
Harrison — Borderline NHLer
Conboy — Borderline NHLer
A.Ward — Was basically a salary dump this offseason, and is playing poorly right now
Wallin (not sure he can be, but it would be nice) — NTC clause that he’ll use
Leighton — Borderline backup
Cole — pricey and hurt
Rod — pricey
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 30, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions
This is funny, Corvo has shown zero indication he wants to stay? How would you expect him to indicate his desire to stay? Run for mayor of Raleigh?
Whitney is a prime candidate to get traded.
The same way that every other player that has re-resigned here has.
In addition to running for mayor of Raleigh, he could say one positive comment about the area or the team or the fans, or he could even not act like he is completely miserable and hates life every time he is interviewed.
I’m not saying he hates it here, just that he doesn’t seem at all like the type who is going to be taking any sort of discounts or signing a new deal before July 1st. I fully expect him to play the market.
he’s done all of the above, well except run for mayor. Not everyone has teh personality of larose and whitney, give the guy a break.
Joe Corvo… as much as I like him… he just seems like a murder-suicide waiting to happen… he doesn’t even smile when he scores a goal… he has serious and obvious confidence issues… and just in general acts like he would rather have his face raked off by a calico cat than play one more game in Raleigh….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Heard him speak about how much he likes it here on more than one occasion.
Admittedly, he’s not much of a smiler, but that does not mean he’s unhappy.
And everyone feeds the safe line to the media and press…..
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, are you being sarcastic? As much as I appreciate what Corvo has brought to the table in the past his game has been lacking so far this season. Whitney is the asset that has the most value right now, and if JR can get the right return he would be stupid to not move him and give the Wizard another shot at a ring.
However, I don’t see him being moved for at least another month, and if things stay the same I hope JR doesn’t wait until the deadline. At that point it may be too late to salvage the season.
Just like Erik Cole, Justin Williams, and Mike Commodore right?
I don’t think Whitney will be traded now, but if this team still sucks on deadline day, you can GUARANTEE Whitney will be traded. If he isn’t then Rutherford simply isn’t doing his job right.
Justin Williams was always a waste of payroll…….Erik Cole can be hot and cold he can go…….Mike Commodore that didn’t really surprise me either.
At this point I can do without Staal in my life too…. he is playing sloppy and uninspired… and throws Sid Crosby Crybaby Fits on the ice… Done with that guy until he shows up in January….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
If They traded Glen Wesley (Toronto 2003… I think) and Ron Francis (Toronto 2004…I think) Then they WILL trade Ray Whitney (Toronto 2010… I think)… And then (if he doesn’t retire as Ron Francis did) they will re-sign him on July 1, 2010…..
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Just for the record I think Cory is 100% right.
I would rather see Corvo go, but we can always sign Whitney this summer if we trade him. He is a big boy, I don’t think his feelings would be hurt.
If Cully continues his generally decent play we might get something out of him, but I think Whitney and Corvo are the two we look to move.
Talking about trading Corvo is crazy talk he’s one of our best defensemen, which might not be saying much right now.
He is also the most replaceable. His contract runs out after this year, so no guarantee we see him in a Canes jersey next year anyways.
Got a few young guys willing to step into that role next year. I see no reason not to move Corvo if this season continues the spiral downward. More like a freefall really at this point.
It will be a cold day in hell when a defenseman like Corvo signs for less money. He will get a nice raise, and I suspect it won’t be from us.
What dale said times ten.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
by C-Leaguer on Oct 29, 2009 9:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Corvo will not be back…. He is the most unhappy person I have ever seen….
I would bet on Keith Premeau coming out of retirement to play for the ’Canes for FREE before I would bet on Corvo making it back to Raleigh next season….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I used the word shy, but you may be closer to the truth. I guess I was trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
No, I've always thought kinda the same thing.
But on the other hand, I think we forget sometimes that not everyone on the team is a Chad or a Whitney. Some of them are a little more low key and reserved. We may see (whether rightfully so or not) it as unhappiness or lack of personality or them being jerks. But for some of them, that’s just the way they are. I know that’s the way I am (reserved except for with people I really know) and I’m not in the public eye, so I can only imagine what it’s like for them with everyone wanting something from them.
My perspective
Just my opinion… I think Joe Corvo is a very introspective guy. He does not favor the spotlight at all. I think Ottawa was pure torture for him. I actually think he enjoys this team and this area. He’s mentioned that he and Erik Cole are good friends, and he was visibly enthusiastic when Cole was traded back here. I had a chance to spend a few minutes with him at the Jimmy V tournament. Some friends and I were at one of the back tees with no one else around us, he had to hold up for the foursome in front of him, and we chatted for a while and he was quite pleasant. He even mentioned that earlier in the morning when the pairings and gallery were bunched up to start the event it felt like a hornet’s nest. I just think he’s one of those guys who is fine in a one-on-one situation but not great with a crowd. Again JMO. And quite frankly I always liked Eeyore as much as I did Pooh or Piglet (or Roo).
I just think he’s a different kind of guy. That being said, the team has McBain, Rodney and Carson in the wings, and Corvo will be 33 in June. This is probably his last chance to cash in. He’d be foolish not to.
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 30, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
As much as this team needs a wake-up call it may be a little too early to pull the trigger on this kind of move. Also-I think Whitney has a no trade clause (everything I’ve ever heard said that the W’s + Staal had NTC). If he does, it will make things a little trickier for JR to move him.
For what it’s worth, I think you are right.
I’m in the 90-some percent confidence bracket that I have read in more than one instance that Whitney has a NTC, along with Wallin and Brind’Amour.
JR was handing them out like candy to trick-or-treaters after the Cup run.
I also heard Walks had one, but am less certain on that one.
Then Staal got one with his contract extension. Maybe Cam did as well?
NTC's
On a pretty knowledgeable fan board, I find numerous references to Whitney’s NTC. Wallin’s NTC is well known, due to the incident of them trying to persuade him to waive it last year (or was it the year before?).
I also see a 6-27-07 post that quoted Forslund as saying earlier that day on Chris Clark’s radio show that the Walker got a NTC with his contract, so I think you’re absolutely right.
Cam's NTC
Also see confirmations of that rumor being out there as being part of the recent contract extension.
It’s an interesting concept Cory. Monday morning would be too early to do something like this, (IMO), but after another month………..
Cullen might be another option. He is playing well and the team has an abundance of centers. But again, for my tastes I would wait a bit longer to pull the trigger.
GM of CanesCountry.com
What about offense?
I understand the desire to add defense but where are the scoring threats these days?
by HurricanesInsider on Oct 29, 2009 5:55 PM EDT reply actions
I dont think its TOO early...
It is early in the season, yes… but I dont think Cory is talking about a move that has the Canes tanking the rest of the season.
It sounds like this move would be a necessary fire under everyones ass. “You better start playing better… or else you may get shipped out!!” And for those who doe have NTC’s or are just untradeable- they see their friends(even the ones that are performing) leave the team.
by packpigskinfan25 on Oct 29, 2009 7:00 PM EDT reply actions
Especially not if that key player is leading the team in scoring. Talk about kissing your offense goodbye.
No we have Ray. Offense implies more than one person. Although Jussi is doing ok for himself so maybe we have “off”.
NO- I mean our team sucks so bad that that they can’t win the face-off to get the puck on the other side of the ice, and our defensemen are so slow they can’t seem to beat the puck back to the net to prevent Cam from having to TRY to stop a puck 20 seconds after they scored the first goal
Cam is off his game right now basically he sucks. As a goalie you have to put goals behind you and move on. There is no D in front of a goalie in a shootout and you still have to stop the puck (oh yeah Cam let’s those pucks in also, especially glove side high). SO WITH NO D OR SORRY PLAYING D IS NO EXCUSE NOT TO STOP THE PUCK.
by canescup on Oct 29, 2009 10:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
maybe it’s the rest of the teams SUCKINESS rubbing off on him, apparently it’s as contagious as the freakin SWINE FLU
maybe it’s the rest of the teams SUCKINESS rubbing off on him, apparently it’s as contagious as the freakin SWINE FLU
Yes. It’s the ‘canes-flu’. Symptoms include no vital signs and general overall suckiness… and it’s a bad one this year.
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 29, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
If it's the Swine Flu,
let’s kill stormy and have a pig-pickin’
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
John says “Ward says yes!…..wait Ward says yes again”.
by canescup on Oct 29, 2009 10:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Do we really even have a team anymore? It’s looking more like a bunch of individuals who just happen to wear similar jerseys and share a stat sheet.
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I ABSOLUTELY think we do, it’s just a matter of finding what is going to make them “click” I don’t think trading Whitney is the answer, but I am not sure if anyone, especially MO has an answer
No argument from me on trading Whitney (or anyone else, unless there’s someone causing some locker room problems we don’t know about). Though until somebody can figure out what exactly the problem is and find a solution, it doesn’t look like much will change.
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I belong in the “glass half full” group, Never giving up..frustrated hell yeah, but I love my CANES!!!
“I have not yet begun to cheer!” — John P.C. Jones
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, there is no such thing as dumb questions. Only dumb answers. :P
Are you from the Greenville area, too?
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
That I wouldn’t know much about, other than I have seen a couple places around here. College crowd keeps them busy.
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Very cool! There’s a lot more Caniacs around here than most would realize.
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Tattoo?
I find almost all females have great looking skin.
Putting on a splotch of ink that is pretty much permanent disrupts the natural beauty.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
tattoos are a form of self expression, fortunately for me I have a job where I am not allowed any visible, otherwise I’d be covered. And with the right tattoo artist, just as beautiful
I’m not allowed to have “visible” tattoos at my job… but I get away with it because I’m “artistic.”
Otherwise I would be seriously screwed!!!
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 30, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
well… yeah…. no way I could get away w/ being covered in Tattoos that say “billy was awesome in prison” or “momma” LOL…
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 30, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
What about "Henne"?
that goes away and when one gets older, the problems like the “Battleship” turning into a dingy or the Unicorn turning into the Clydesdales on the Budweiser Beer wagon just won’t happen.
Not that it would happen to YOU in any case. ;-D
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Oh, very cool. :)
We’ve talked of trying to get Caniacs together to watch games up here for our own little Cool Bars. Will have to let you know when we do so you can join us if you’d like.
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow! A fellow Caniac from New Bern! I didn’t know anyone else over here even knew we had a hockey team!
by caniac4ever on Oct 29, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if Caniac4ever is the “other” ’Canes fan who keeps taking your car magnets…..
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 30, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah… I would officially be a Devils fan if Ovenchicken ever polluted a Hurricanes jersey… I do not care how good he is… some things just can not happen based on principal….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 30, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
And why Calgary is dead to me (Bertuzzi)
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 30, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Asset Management
In general, anything that JR can get for a UFA this season is okay with me.
Sure, Plan A is to take a team of vets on a deep playoff run, hoping to catch lightning in a bottle, augmenting that talent with late season call-ups and/or trades. But, Plan A isn’t looking so viable right now.
The trade of a UFA forward for a RFA D-man is interesting, as a fix-it-on-the-fly move, but trading Whitney would take a waiver of his no-trade clause, which seems unlikely (unless he’s sick of the mess here, that is). Cory’s suggested trade certainly makes sense for both teams.
But, my guess is that Ray and/or the wife vetoes this idea. I expect to see Ray making himself available for a one or two year contract to try and stay here at the end of this season…but, he’s right, Boychuk looks like the spitting image of him on the ice.
But, I also believe the org had at least a Plan B from the very beginning of the season. They’ve stockpiled free agents that would fit into anyone’s locker room and I do expect to see quite a bit of dealing before the trade deadline.
And, if we’re not going anywhere this year, the best thing for the org is to try to change as many contracts as they can into picks and prospects. Done properly, this could set up this org for a decade.
If we’re going to build around a core (Staal, C. Ward, and Pitkanen), and throw money at them to keep ‘em, then we have to go young (read affordable) with most of the other moving parts. That means lots of entry level contracts, constantly feeding the base of the pyramid through successful drafts and trades of vets for young’uns.
So, much as I was looking forward to this cast of characters actually being something and hating to wish failure upon them, if they ARE going to fail, then it is actually a very good opportunity for the org to improve our long-term assets.
In a few more weeks, we’ll know which way this will go.
But, my guess is that Ray and/or the wife vetoes this idea. I expect to see Ray making himself available for a one or two year contract to try and stay here at the end of this season…but, he’s right, Boychuk looks like the spitting image of him on the ice.
I hope your right. The wizard is one of my favorites, and aways has been!!!! We need him to help get Boychuk off and going.
by 3yrsnoplayoffs? on Oct 29, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ll know where this team is really going by the fifth game the tenth game twenty-five games in Thanksgiving Christmas the new year the Olympic break the trade deadline… Well, maybe we’ll just keep them all together and see if they can pull off a miracle run in the end…
One never knows where a team is going. Not until they get there.
Witness the Penguins being out of the playoffs prior to the break and winning it all. Witness the ’08 Canes making a terrific run at the end of the season…and then inexplicably blowing it all in the last couple of games.
So, we’re never going to know at any of those struck out milestones. The org makes decisions based on best available data at the time, the brain trust’s projections and gut-feelings, and what’s out there that’s available as an alternative.
Nobody’s saying keep them all and let’s see how this mess turns out. But, who to trade and who to trade with takes another partner who has decided it’s time to do so, bare minimum.
Not panicking and exercising a bit of patience pays. Because he that is time-constrained loses.
That’s pretty much what I was saying, in a very sarcastic way. Everyone keeps mentioning these milestones, that if we don’t improve by…
My attitude is pretty much anyone and everyone that can be should be on the trade block. The only measure of whether a trade should be done is if the Canes get back enough to warrant the trade. When it happens doesn’t matter, tomorrow or the trade deadline. I’d prefer that they look long-term rather than a quick fix. I don’t want a trade just for a shakeup, though.
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re in total agreement, then. I don’t want a trade for the sake of a trade, even as a “shakeup” move either and I’m ready anytime JR says it’s go time.
Manage the assets. Improve the long-term pool of those assets. Be opportunistic.
JR has shown a remarkable patience in knowing when to pull trigger in the past. I don’t expect him to lose that talent this year.
Yep. Total agreement. A shakeup move would probably do more harm than good in the long run.
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally,
I still think this is a Mo vs Lavi style that is screwing with the Canes.
I hope Mo goes back to a attack style with a little more emphasis on defense, which is what I thought they were doing with the addition of bigger players on the blue line.
I am still hoping Mo learned that the NHL is faster and the “dump and chase” crap is a way to ensure losing.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Amen to that! Can’t count the number of times I’ve grumbled about the “dump and chase” crap.
by NCHockeyGal on Oct 30, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Enough of this depressing talk about the Hurricanes…. Let’s talk about Fish Tanks s’more :-) Pleeeeeeaaaaassssseeeeee…….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 8:59 PM EDT reply actions
Mine all died.
To make it worse, they were too small to make sushi out of too.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
We have one fish in Casa Caniacgirl. His name is Pepito and he was a hand-me-down. I guess we’re his foster home.
Since you asked...
recent hung out in the army tank, because she can’t take bright light is now stuck amongst the foliage wishing for sunglasses.
My son posed this question: Is it possible that Cam Ward the problem with the Cane’s locker room this season? His shrimp has turned our tank’s hierarchy completely upside-down.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 29, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
somehow a bunch of that disappeared with all the posting you all kept doing making my screen jump.
recent arrival Cam Ward shrimp has disappeared into the sunken Galleon. The Galleon has been the habitat of the never-seen and imposing pleco (all the “officials” were plecostomi) that we call “Toronto”. So, evicted from his home of the last 30 months, Toronto has taken over the smaller Army tank. This has forced the beautiful large eyed Zamboni fish who resided in the army tank, to hang out in in the shrubbery, because she can’t take bright light is now stuck amongst the foliage wishing for sunglasses.
It appears that Mo keeps checking on Toronto to see what’s up. Stormy the frog also ventured in, but once swish from Toronto’s prickly tail and he came right back out.
My son posed this question: Is it possible that Cam Ward is the problem with the Cane’s locker room this season? His shrimp has turned our tank’s hierarchy completely upside-down.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 29, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn’t agree more. It looked so pretty – not aggressive. Maybe theres’ something to this shrimp we need to address and soon.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 29, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Enough of this depressing talk about the Hurricanes
Let’s go back to figuring out who the hotties are.
;-)
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
For the "Hotties"
I vote for all the “Women of Canes Country”
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
I've been trying
and trying, and trying to get on all your “best sides”. ;)
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
I mean…. I could name storm squad members… but I would then have to fear for my life :-)
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah,
some of them are actually quite nice.
I was talking to one of them and she confided the worst part of the job is walking around the RBC with some pervert following them, drooling. Yet she still talked to me. jk….
I guess that is another reason why they are so aloof. The other is perhaps some feel their $#!+ don’t stink.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Saw that. I was hoping for new meat, actually.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 29, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
what do you mean?
the picture of me with Paladin and Dr. Evil is gone so how could you have gotten a picture of me?
Do I have an “Avid Fan”?
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Well, I'll sign autographs, no problem.....
on whatever part you want me to sign.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
He's not my "Avid Fan"
he’s my “Wingman”, or “Winger”.
My only fear would be you ladies being jealous of each other but don’t worry, I can be there for all of you…..
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Speaking of the Wingman,
Where are you Paladin?
I’m here and you’re not!
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
That's not me.....
I’m the one on all fours with the discipline ball…..
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
I don't know which one of the ladies you are looking at
they all got their turns as “Mistress”
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Didn’t scare me off. I had to change the water in Pepito’s bowl. But next time you see a certain Cam Ward “avid fan” share my message with her. :points down:
My browser,
or specifically my being able to read this style of blog leaves much to be desired.
Speaking of something desirable, I would really like to see you in that “high heels and whip” picture.
Could you email it to me? Or can I take my own? ;)
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
And how does one get an invite?
I think it would be great to be one of the selected few.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
I don't doubt that.....
but I haven’t gotten an invite or even a “how to become one of the few lucky stiffs” yet….
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
I doubt the mental picture I have
would do justice or even be in the same league as the real thing.
(okay, I’ll stop now)
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Proud and slightly disappointed all at the same time.
That being said, I should NOT be the subject of your next photoshop.
If you do Jenn,
just send it to me if you feel the need to share.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Well, I’ve only seen a pic of the backside of CG, so it’s kind of hard to tell.
Oh, you weren’t talking about the female posters here? ;)
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m just trying to add a little testosterone to the thread here…
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I’m no Cam basher, so I should be somewhat safe…
by Pirate Caniac on Oct 29, 2009 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Get his name right its ‘2goals20secCam’ all one word.
by canescup on Oct 29, 2009 10:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
While the trade could work – why now? You can get basically the same thing now for whitney as you could at the deadline. One player (whether that’s whitney or not) IS NOT going to fix our problems.
If you are trading in hopes that a new guy would infuse some energy and the rest of the guys would suddenly start giving a shit, well that is a huge risk for JR to take and highly unlikely. You have a proven guy that can play here in whitney, and even if you bring in a frolov, versteeg, sharp, barker…there is no certainty said player would work here.
I agree – this thing just doesn’t look like it is going to turn itself around without something major happening. But I just don’t think that something major needs to be trading whitney.
Now, if we had already brought up Boychuk and McBain/Rodney/Carson to join Sutter (who I hope to god is finally here to stay) and we were still having the same struggles, then YES, that would be the time to trade Whitney. Remember, these young guys are supposed to be good – but we just don’t know yet. If we can figure out what we actually have in these young guys, JR could feel much more comfortable trading Whitney away this early.
Guys like Samsonov need to find somewhere else to work. Why are we even paying this guy? All he does is get to fancy with the puck, and finds a way to screw a good play from developing. He is a waste of money and a roster spot. A guy like Boychuk (who from watching preseason, I honestly wasn’t impressed with), a least needs to see the big time, big games, because next year HE WILL BE playing here, no matter what.
Ship Samsonov anywhere for anything. He is doing nothing for this team, and is contributing to their horrid offensive play.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
I am going to the game in Phily on Saturday…. I’m likely to get killed (they throw rocks at Santa Clause)….
Can I PLEASE get Canes Country points for being there?
Note: I did not get Canes Country points for being at the now-famous game in San Jose last season…. while another un-named Canes Country member DID get Canes Country points….
I just hope we don’t get killed my the jerk squad in Philly….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 9:53 PM EDT reply actions
tomorrow night…. I’ve already gone and activated a “membership” at “Broad Street Hockey” to beg them not to murder us for wearing our teams colors….
it is not safe… not sure what got in to us…..
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s Halloween, maybe they will think you are just Flyers fans “dressing up”.
GM of CanesCountry.com
They might want to be Flyer fans after we lose again. That game is going to be baaad.
by canescup on Oct 29, 2009 10:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As a loyal Mets fan…. I am required to hate everything about Philadelphia……
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I do not want the Yankees to win…. and I do not want the Phillies to win…. the only thing that could make it worse is if the f-ing Braves came up to play a game…. Baseball season is officially over…. we all lose!
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Oct 29, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, how I'd feel about a Cowboys Broncos
or in my lexicon, a Cokeboys – Donkeys Superbowl. I’d hope for "sudden death, ie a large asteroid hitting the field during the middle of the 2nd period. That’ll put them out of our misery.
For you Mets fans:
Jersey is the place for those who can’t handle New York.
Philly is the place for those who can’t handle Jersey…..
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Where the "Garden State" pumps all the sludge
from where they refine the crude.
I know.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
The deal makes sense Cory, but I just don’t want to see it happen. Ray is really the only guy on the team right now (outside of Sutter and Wardo) who I am really pulling for in this already dark season. I think many who do not read this blog or visit here would be horrified at the thought of Whitney leaving. I am reading this and I too feel bad at the thought of this.
True the team needs a shakeup, because frankly, they will be a bottom feeder come March. But trading Whitney may make this team perform even worse. He is really the only one producing much in terms of scoring. If you take him out of this scoring equation, who takes his place? Cory’s idea of Barker wouldn’t help because he is not a forward, and no matter how much of a scorer he is, a 40 point season from him will not save this team. If anything, they would need a guy like Sharp in return, and Chicago will want a lot for him. You have to replace him with another scorer. Will Boychuk may be his second coming, he seems a long ways away from stepping into his shoes. There is simply nobody else here to fill that large and empty void.
They cannot afford to trade Whitney, because I honestly feel like he is the last bit of glue holding the team together. If he is traded, they may never recover: offensively or mentally.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
I also agree that trading Whitney would essentially be waving the white flag of surrender.
Doubtful we would replace his points in offense (although it’s goals against that’s killing us right now!). But, more importantly, I view him as the closest thing we have to being able to immediately fix a line or break out a stagnant scorer.
He’s the best playmaking assist guy we have…at least at the moment.
Thank you Cory
for this great read on a topic that would have never crossed my mind. but as far as a return value, i would see Versteeg come down here then Barker. I like the way Versteeg plays and his creativity with the puck. plus, aren’t we kind of loaded with offensive defenders waiting for their time?
on a lighter note, whose all going to the game on Sunday? I want to start meeting some fellow Canes Country readers! lol
-Jason
Hey – you got a name!?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Oct 29, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I basically agree with everything you just said. I suppose I’m supposed to write +something instead of all of these words?
We’re seeing the results of signing older players to extensions and not devloping our farm system for several years. We’ve built up our prospects, but we still have a lot of expiring contracts that can get us some value until the kids are ready. Deal a productive vet for some up and coming young guys with NHL experience like Baker of Versteeg who can already produce to build a young nucleus. Despite some of the opinions on here, Cam and Staal are elite players who won’t stay down for long, they just might need a swift kick in ass.
You don’t want to be the oldest team in the league ever. The Red Wings are a glaring exception to the rule.
Still not a crook!
Staal is elite. My problem with Staal is that he doesnt seem to be just “in a slump” he seems to not even care. Everything he does has looked half assed. Only thing hes got going for him is his shot from the circles and his wraparound. He loses the puck every time he crosses the blueline. He leaves his little drop passes when hes surrounded by the other teams D and no one is coming to pick it up. His passes seem so uninterested. Another problem I see is puck movement on the PP. We only seem to pass around the perimeter. No passes across ice to move a goalie from post to post. I’ve seen plenty of openings that are not being taken. And I dont think this falls on the D or “the point”. Their job is to shoot from the top, and/or make a pass to a wing. Its the wing thats not creating on PPs. What happened to pucks with eyes that get under opposing Dmen’s sticks? No risk = no reward. Sometimes you have to make a few real passes and all our players seem to be late with em. Another problem I think is sticking with your plan. Too much line changing. Whitney and Cole should never leave Staals side. If Cole is out it should be Ruu. I think the D is feeling pressured to produce and is getting caught cheating. I think the D will be fine though, it will come with confidence. A combinatino of Gleason/Pitkanen, Ward/Corvo should be plenty of D in our top lines. They provide plenty of punch with Pits and Corvo, and Gleason and Ward are just fine in the shutdown role. Alberts, and Wallin are acceptable 3rd pairings.
Wow, sorry bout the long post/rambling here, kinda typing with no real direction!
In conclusion I think the problem lies in 2 areas. First and mainly is confidence. Were simply scared to make the pass/play. 2, Staal has to play like he cares. For the money hes making he cannot turn into an uninspired 60-70 point guy. He did this last year til Cole came back and he’s doing it this year. If this is gonna be how he plays then I say trade him. Just because he’s touted by the org as “the” franchise player shouldnt make him untouchable. Bench his ass at least!
Staal’s a scrub…period…I think all tht money we pay him is weighing him down
by RU4RU on Oct 30, 2009 12:38 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
rebuilding year
so let’s get rid of the dreams of another stanley cup this year — if JR was serious about that, he would’ve brought talent onto the team to help staal, et. al. instead of simply replacing a few d-men here and there with other d-men of questionable skill (i’m talking to you, jay harrison and aaron “i still have a house in cary, you have to love me” ward).
if we can just wrap our brains around making 09/10 a rebuilding year, i think that would actually engergize the fan base to want to watch the future of this team who, when called up, will actually bust hump to try and make the playoffs, not act like the overpaid vets (i’m talking to you, chad larose) with long-term deals trying not to get hurt.
trade whitney, who i love, and larose, and jokinen, and a-ward, and brindy (to a cup contender for his leadership), get some young talent back in return or one big name to put on a line with staal and cole, then bring up boychuck and everybody else and roll with it.
i’d pay $60 a ticket to see a few games with guys who give a crap rather than watch a bunch of has-beens skate around trying not to get hit.
Cory This article sux
Becuase it makes to much sense and I would hate to see Whitney anywhere else. Perhaps MO should print out this article and tack it up in the locker room and say, if you guys don;t turn this around, we are gonna have to get rid of the wizard.
I’d hate to see him elsewhere, too … that being said, it does make sense.I’m not making him a scapegoat — far from it. I’m saying he has value and can get a legitimate return. Also, I believe the team can win without him — it may be harder, but it’s possible — and infusing Barker (or one of the other guys … Barker’s just my choice. The Hawks have plenty of options) could help now AND later.
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 30, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I certainly hope we can turn things around before it comes to that, though. But say we don’t. Isn’t this supposed to be a relatively shallow draft year? Who is on the radar, and is anyone likely to be nhl Ready?
Yes … the draft is not good. That being said, the guys at the top are good. Taylor hall will probably go first, Plymouth Whaler Tyler Seguin is a top-five guy .. and their are a bunch of Euros (Russians, mostly, I believe) that score out high. Thing is, even if the team doesn’t turn things around to compete for a playoff spot, I doubt they’re a bottom five team. Consider how bad they’re playing .. there are still three teams with worse records (Wild, Panthers, Leafs).
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 30, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. I do not see us falling to the top five category by the end of the season, so elite talent is probably not achievable.
However, I will take the multiple picks in the second and later rounds that trading UFA’s can bring. Two swings in the second round is bound to produce some NHL-worthy talent, especially now that our drafting prowess has increased.
We are bottom 5
I only see the Panthers worse than the Canes right now. I’ve watched a bit of the Leafs this year and they have a decent team that just needs to gel. The Wild beat us. The Islanders beat us. The Avs have turned it around. LA looks good this year. Habs might be worse than us.
Oh and I forgot
Even the Coyotes are a better team right now. You have to admire what they have been able to accomplish in this young season. If any players had NOTHING to care about other than pride, it’s them. I wish the Canes had half that amount of pride.
I say wait
This team may not be going anywhere, then again things may change when Cole and Rutuu are both back in the lineup.
We’ll know for sure in February and if it looks like we’re not playoff bound we can probably make some good deals with other teams that want a player(like Witney) that could put them over the top. We could bring the younger players in for the last month of the season to prepare for 2010/2011. That would also be a good time to look for a better coach.
Here is a wake up call for you. How about the All Effort Canes lineup.....
First line: Walker, Cullen, Whitney
2Nd Line: Ruutu, Sutter, Cole
3Rd line: Boychuk, Staal, Kostopolus
4th Line: Samsanov, Brindy, LaRose
Defense: Corvo, Pitkanen
Gleason, Carson
McBain, Conboy
Everyone else sent to the friggin minors or released. I would rather see heart that loses than lack of effort. This is ridiculous. I am going Sunday and will bring paper bags. Nothing worse than a good team on paper that cannot get their crap together. Tom Rowe should be coaching. A system please…..Anyone….Anyone……..what was this coaching staff doing this summer? Anything??? Hello, you play to win the game!!!!! I want winners!! Not even wins….just winners…guys that leave it on the ice. This is …… not acceptable.
awesome lineup! remember how well cully played when brindy got hurt last year? he wants to be a top-line center….
by Capt. Stinky on Oct 30, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I see what you are trying to do here, I just hope you now that this would make us look even worse. Cullen is great # 3 Center, playing against the other squads depth defensive pairings. You think Cullen’s game is gonna look the same against an oppositions top parings? Sutter on the second line is a pretty dangerous both short and long term. You want to build up your young guys, not throw em to the lions. I wont even touch that blue line……….
by wylde4canes on Oct 30, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand that he’s listing an “all effort” lineup, and not necessarily advocating that we use it.
But, do agree with your point about being wary about moving centers up a line, exposing them to a much better quality of opposition than they normally see.
“Cullen, meet Pronger/Ovechkin/Crosby/etc.”
Same misgivings about Sutter. I believe he can handle third-line duties easily with his current weight/conditioning, matching up to other’s third lines and second/third defensive pairings. Not sure he’s ready to stick his toes into the upper-echelon waters just yet, although that hopefully is his destiny.
It's NOT the time to panic
I couldn’t disagree more. I fail to see any benefit from trading away your leading scorer and assistant captain. This team made the conference finals last year. Juggling the lines the way that Maurice has is just as indicative of poor coaching ( too many men on the ice) as poor play. I think they have looked and played arrogant so far this season. As if other, supposedly lesser teams i.e. Isles, Wild, Blues, should just concede defeat and get it over with. Trading away Ray solves none of this other than losing a vocal, heart and soul player and leader who just happened to lead the team in scoring last year. Jim Rutherford didn’t bring in Ward and Yelle to start a rebuild. It’s early enough to turn it around.
A lot to be said for character and gile........oh and it is cheaper too.
We have lost 7 in a row with no end in sight. The young guys are as ready for the next step as the next guy. I just want to see effort for 60 minutes. That team may not win but they will compete. Someone else earlier in this blog said….they would rather see young guys with a burning desire than a bunch of old guys trying not to get hit(I am paraphrasing)….that says it all. Lose by one or lose by 3 while competing and building for the future…. What doesn’t look good is a lackluster bunch of bums going out there and representing our area. They forget what hockey is…it is not soccer, it is more like football. Hardnosed and toothless. It isn’t GQ. Seems like a wakeup call is in order. This organization cannot survive a prolonged period of this kind of effort. A big statement will go a long way. Matthew….errogant is a good word…..
PLAYOOOOFFFFFSSSS!!!! PLAYOOOOFFFFFSSSS!!!! We can’t score a goal…
Reality,,,,,it is not practical to change the team this drastically. It is up to the coaching staff to put this team in a position to win. If they are not capable of doing that, they will be the change. My comments are for shock value…someone needs to kick some butts.
I no longer think of the Hurricanes as a ‘skating’ team like under Lavi and the rest of last season under Maurice. Lots of reaching, as evidence of the penalties, and not a lot of skating. While I do think that not playing very many preseason games hurt our start, I also don’t think the trading of skating for size has been what everybody hoped. In Yelle you have an older, slower Ryan Bayda, in Alberts you have a bizarro Babchuk, great shot on Anton while Alberts fans on a lot of passes, where Babchuk would get deked out of his skates, Alberts will tackle a guy. I wasn’t crazy about Ward coming back, I felt we should of kept Seidenberg and tried to get him to quit doing that silly backhand pass in his own zone. That move alone cost us several goals last season. All in all, a gain in size is a loss in skating and a gain in penalty minutes from what I’ve seen.
I have the same issue as you.
Did we fix one of our weaknesses in that we got bigger and stronger?
Or did we just build this team around Mo’s style of play (cause we all know how awesome that ended up last time)?
by Iggy Reilly on Oct 30, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone go to practice today? Was it a happy skate?
I’m bored, I need to be entertained until happy hour starts at 4:30
It’s my last day here!!!!!
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 30, 2009 2:02 PM EDT reply actions
I mean in this lab – not on this site…
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 30, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The other day he was in a grey jersey, and only doing the drills, not participating in the scrimmages – maybe it’s part of his suspension…?
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 30, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Outside of the one day he was in grey, which in the coach’s practice system is usually an indicator of which line he practices on, he’s been in regular gear the rest of the week. This was the first day in no contact gear. JMO it’s not related to the suspension :-( But nothing has been reported about it yet (that I can find).
Although he, Cole (who was also in no contact today), and Gleason (who was NOT in yellow and IIRC refuses to wear it) did skate the full practice plus the extra skate drills with Kevin McCarthy since they weren’t traveling with the team. They were still on the ice when they ran us out of the RBCC today.
Yep, that’s what I read too.
Congrats!!
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 30, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I always liked that name…
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 30, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
We already had a, er, "working lunch"
it was a “strategic decision meeting”.
…urp….
So where’s you’re watering hole?
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
The boys are scheduled to leave in about 5 min… (can you tell that I’m bored?)
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 30, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions
Oh, hey CG – did you get the link to listen to the sutter interview from the other night?
It’s here
by Andrea's evil twin on Oct 30, 2009 2:15 PM EDT reply actions
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