Moving Eric Staal to Wing: Good Idea?
by Bob Wage on Nov 23, 2009 1:08 AM EST
54 comments
Carolina Hurricanes All Star center, Eric Staal, is on the road to recovery and could rejoin the lineup within the week. The question of the day? Where exactly does Staal fit in when he returns and what will the lines look like afterward?
When Staal joined his teammates for the pregame skate Saturday morning, he was skating as a winger on Brandon Sutter's line. There has been some talk that the team might try moving their leading goal scorer for the past four years, to wing.
Should they risk it?
This is a move that should not be taken lightly. Staal has scored 153 goals over the previous four years for an average of 38 goals per year. Only Alex Ovechkin, Ilya Kovalchuk, Jarome Iginla, Vincent Lecavalier, and Dany Heatley have lit the lamp more times in that same period.
But the center has not been able to match his career best numbers he put up in 2005-06, the year that playmaking forward Cory Stillman was on his line. Could he have even better results playing alongside a prototype, playmaking center? Would it be better for the team if he moved?
If you examine Staal's game, his skill set seems to match those of a scoring forward more than a typical center. The "prototype" center usually is a playmaker, along the lines of Sidney Crosby, Joe Thornton, and Jason Spezza. These players usually have considerable more assists than goals. But Staal not only leads his team in shots on goal, he is also a league leader in shots and was second only to Ovechkin last season. Most of the time he looks for the shot first while the pass seems secondary.
This "shoot first" philosophy appears to more closely resemble that of wingers like Rick Nash, Marian Hossa, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, and Heatley. And there is nothing wrong with that. Every team needs a sniper who is looking to score. But usually these "goal scorers" need a playmaker alongside them in order to excel.
Ray Whitney would be the teammate who could come closest to fitting that description, and while he and Staal have had some success on the same line, things could be better because Whitney's speed is not what it used to be.
Now with the recent emergence of Brandon Sutter as a scorer, this might be the perfect time to rock the boat and try Staal out on his wing. Of course there is risk involved. Maybe the change will hurt Staal's game more than help it? Maybe Sutter will cool off from the hot streak he has been on since his recall?
Sutter was not necessarily known as an offensively skilled player with scoring instincts, up until recently. While he has nine points, (5G 4A) in 13 games this season, last year he finished with six points in 50 games. (1G, 5A). Although in fairness to the youngster, he played fourth line minutes with no powerplay time last season. But even in juniors, he was not known as a prolific scorer.
Sutter has shown some passing ability as he perfectly fed Tim Gleason for an excellent powerplay goal against Toronto, and also had a nice pass to Ray Whitney that just missed. But 13 games does not a superstar make.
One of Staal's biggest attributes is that he can control possession of the puck behind the net because of his long reach, and then can either try wrap around chances or can feed to players cutting in front of the net. If he changes positions, would he still be able to use that skill set as often?
If Staal is moved to wing, here are some of the possible line combinations:
- Sutter, Whitney, Staal
- Cullen, Ruutu, Jokinen
- Yelle, Samsonov, Cole
- Brind'Amour, Kostopoulos, LaRose
or...
- Sutter, Cole, Staal
- Cullen, Ruutu, Jokinen
- Yelle, Whitney, Samsonov
- Brind'Amour, Kostopoulos, LaRose
When Scott Walker comes back, it opens up another can of worms.
If people were to ask me what my guess is, (and they have), I would say that after some experimentation, eventually Yelle would get moved to the press box. I don't feel that he is a long term option for third line center. Staal would move to first line center and Sutter would anchor the third line.
- Staal, Whitney, Cole
- Cullen, Ruutu, Jokinen
- Sutter, Samsonov, LaRose
- Brind'Amour, Walker, Kostopoulos
Paul Maurice has stated that he is very happy with the Cullen line and it's doubtful that group gets changed anytime soon. But eventually, the team would like Jussi Jokinen to center Ruutu and Samsonov, remaking the "All Euro" line which was so effective during the playoffs last year. The coaching staff really likes Jokinen at center.
If Brandon Sutter can continue his surprising scoring abilities, it could make for an interesting time ahead. Can you imagine the speed and skill of a future line comprised of Sutter, Staal, and Zach Boychuk? That might be the quickest line in the NHL.
What do you think? Should Staal be tried at wing? How would you set the lines?
_____
We will have a game day preview up for tonight's game after lunch.
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Staal's Return -- Sutter should stay on the first line
My guess is (1) Staal of course will be on the first line; (2) Sutter will stay on the first line; and (3) the Jokinen/Cullen/Ruutu line will remain intact as the second line. With those three assumptions, formulating the first and second lines becomes complicated. My prediction is:
* Sutter, Whitney, Staal
* Cullen, Ruutu, Jokinen
* Yelle, Samsonov, Cole
* Brind’Amour, Kostopoulos, LaRose
When Walker returns, I think Walker and LaRose will alternate as being healthy scratches if the experiment works. Based on my assumption that Walker and LaRose would alternate on the fourth line or perhaps Walker, Larose, Kostopoulos might possibly alternate as healthy scratches, it increases the likelihood of a LaRose trade.
I put a separate post on potential lines in 2010-2011 that provides some hypothetical lines that could have application to this discussion.
Yelle would be a healthy scratch first in a Mo coached team.....
Mo prizes loyalty and as loyalty is more or less longevity the order would be Yelle, Walker then LaRose.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Any particular reason?
Personally, I don’t care only that whatever position he moves to makes it better for the Canes.
Do you think he’s too much of a center? I have no opinion buy I’d like to hear yours.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
we all love this sutter train,
but he doesnt need to be in staals place onthe first line,
if anything move sutter to the wing and play him with cole and staal.
cullen whitney larose line 2
then staal could take more chances i nthe FO cricle,
sense he has a replacement if he gets kicked out
queasy thinking about this
i get how good staal and scotty are, but the boys have compensated so well now without them and are clicking, i wonder if bringing them back in will mess up the dynamic going right now. that sounds really wrong of me to say, but sometimes other players will step up their game when the “star” players are missing like you’ve even seen legace and the “D” do without ward. now i’m feeling like if we shove staal and scotty in somewhere just cause they’re good, it will actually mess up the dynamics of how we’re playing now which would really suck. but who knows. i’ve played on enough great soccer teams to understand how nuanced it can become when returning players who were injured who are great and all could in fact HURT the team that’s figured out how to play without them. anyone with me here? and mo needs to stop with so much loyalty and focus on who is the most effective at that time.
Come on Now
Lets not go crazy. We have won two games in a row but beating the leafs in a shootout and beating the bolts is not exactly winning the stanley cup. I believe Staal has earned the right to play on the top line. The team will be better off with two great centers just like the cup year when Brindy was in his prime.
This would be the perfect time to try Staal at wing. The team’s got little to lose, Sutter’s used to 1st line center minutes.
I’d rather not have Ray with them. I feel he’s too slow.
Staal/Sutter/Cole
Imagine for a moment how the team dynamic changes if that line worked and the Boychuk were brought up after Thanksgiving:
Staal/Sutter/Cole
Jokinen/Cullen/Ruutu
Whitney/Boychuk/Samsonov (small third line with amazing quickness and puck-handling)
Walker(LaRose)/Brind’Amour/Kostopoulos
I think Yelle over Boychuk
for the third line. No, not as quick but it means squat if he’s not a center.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Boychuk as Center
Boychuk was drafted as a center/forward and is listed in Albany as a center:
11 Zach Boychuk C L 5-10 180 Oct 4, 1989 Airdrie, AB
His scouting report has him as either a center or a forward. The Sbnation scouting report is below. I don’t know if Boychuk will be able to play center in the NHL. I also don’t know about putting together a line without a power forward. On the other hand, it might drive defenses crazy to have that much puck-handling and quickness on one line and might wear down the defense very quickly.
Here’s the sbnation report on Boychuk:http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/players/54249/Zach_Boychuk
Zach Boychuk
Carolina Hurricanes #11 – Center
Born: 1989/10/04 Age: 20
Height: 5-10 Weight: 185
Place of birth: Airdrie, Alta., Canada
Seasons: 1
Drafted by: the Carolina Hurricanes in 2008 (1st round)
Year Team GP G A P +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG GTG SOG
2009 Hurricanes 2 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 6
Full Career Stats "
rss Posts about Zach Boychuk last updated Nov 23, 2009 10:57 AM EST
110 Canes Send Zach Boychuk Back To Albany
by James Mirtle from From The Rink on Dec 18, 2008 1:55 PM EST
Scouting Report
Assets
* Is versatile enough to be used in any game situation, and at any forward position. Has scoring potential, grit and hockey sense.
Flaws
* His lack of ideal size for the pro game may hinder his ability to produce points on a consistent basis at the NHL level.
Career Potential
* Versatile top-six forward.
Sutter at Wing
It seems like a very reasonable time to experiment on the first line. It isn’t as if a game or two with Staal at wing some of the time and Sutter at wing some of the time on the first line would cause the earth to stand still.
It might be interesting as well to try a Sutter/Staal/Cole line to see what happens with the fast and tall line out there for some shifts. If Cole could ever play a game or two with hs pre-injury fire and intensity on a line with Staal and Sutter, it would be an amazing sight to behold.
Cole has been looking better the past few games. Remember he’s coming off that early season injury, so he’s probably just getting back to 100%.
I would go with the Sutter/Staal/Cole line, they’d be pretty hard to stop.
by CanesFanFromLI on Nov 23, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
For a non hockey player, and If it is not too difficult to explain, does someone mind telling me exactly what the job of the center and a winger entails? I suppose having a left handed or right handed shot has some determination which side a winger plays. Why would it be difficult to move from center to wing and vice versa?
by hotchipsnsalsa on Nov 23, 2009 10:29 AM EST reply actions
A center has more defensive responsibility, for one thing. The wingers stay up high and cover the points, and the center plays down low with the defensemen. He probably covers more ice than anyone else. Moving a center to the wing frees him of some of those responsibilities and allows him to concentrate more on offense. It’s why we’ve seen Brind’Amour on the wing from time to time: he seems unable to keep up with all of the responsibilities of playing the position.
Also, centers are usually playmakers, setting up the goal scorers on the wing. Think Gretzky (although he also scored more goals than anybody else), Lemieux, Ron Francis, Adam Oates, Steve Yzerman, guys like that. Your goal scorers—guys like Selanne, Jagr, Shanahan, Kurri (played with Gretzky)—are often wingers. I don’t think this matters as much, though; there have been plenty of centers who were primarily goal scorers, like Phil Esposito, who had Wayne Cashman feeding him goals.
by nomadologist on Nov 23, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks. One more, on a break away with a center and a winger does the center try to gain control of the puck as soon as possible and try to control the flow or does it matter and what ever the positioning of the offensive and defensive players on the ice dictates how the break away flows?
by hotchipsnsalsa on Nov 23, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
You mean when they’re breaking out of the defensive zone, or like when there’s a 2-on-1 sort of thing? Coming out of the zone, the winger on the side of the ice that the puck is on should be along the boards, waiting for a pass from the defenseman. The center should be near the middle of the ice so the winger can quickly get the puck to him because most of the time he’ll be pressured by a pinching defenseman. As a right-handed shot, I prefer playing the left wing because I can make that pass out of the zone on my forehand.
On an odd man rush I think it really depends on the positioning of the players. You might criss-cross with the other guy to try to confuse the defenders or to get on the side of the ice you have a better shot from (another reason I like playing the left side: a righty can one-time easier from the left side and a lefty can one-time easier from the right).
Maybe someone who has had actual coaching and practice could answer this better—though I’ve been playing for years, I’ve only ever played in wide-open rec hockey leagues and pickup games, where half the time people don’t even know what position they’re playing, let alone stick to any planned breakouts and the like.
by nomadologist on Nov 23, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
This brings to mind Mo’s comments in the Spring about when he first arrived last year and started off by working to giving the Hurricanes forwards take a much more responsible defensive role (I think we all remember that – it was great advice and worked well for a few months there). He spoke of Staal feeling the pressure to score for the team and therefore “cheating” (not a pejorative term – just a positional strategy), meaning he wasn’t down low with the D, but cheating a little to the high side of the Canes zone, looking to get that breakaway and get some much-needed goals for his struggling team.
Mo went out of his way to make it clear he wasn’t criticizing Staal for this, but that it just didn’t work well enough to be worth the consequences of a weak D.
Staal does not always seem to be an enthusiastic defensive player (like obvious d-centers Brind`Amour or Datsyuk). Maybe it’s because of all the injuries and those physical battles are brutal. But I do think allowing Staal to go with his instincts may just be a god-send for him. Kind of the hockey version of Do what you love; love what you do.
Hurricanes Hockey: Never for the faint of heart.
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 23, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
No for a couple reasons
1) Staal doesn’t skew that much for me towards pure goal scorer. His career stats, and Hossa’s for that matter, are pretty well rounded, unlike Nash.
2) If your best player’s natural position is center, they should by default be the #1 center.
3) I didn’t notice a difference in Sutter’s play when he was on the wing, so may as well put him there
4) Staal, god and myself love him, is streaky as hell. Do you want to put him on the same line as Sutter, who has been very consistant over 13 games this year?
Did you put Whitney on the same line as Yelle? There should be laws against that…
Third Line Center -- Yelle
As I went through various alternatives, having Yelle on the third line and then keeping LaRose and/or Walker on fourth line seemed, well . . . odd. It made me wonder if there is a Corvo trade in the works that would bring a third line center into the picture. I could imagine a Corvo for Peter Mueller trade. Rumor is that the Coyotes want to move him. I thought he had played all forward positions; but I may be remembering incorrectly. For Sutter to stay on the first line, there is the need for another true third line center.
Peter Mueller — Phoenix Coyotes
Phoenix Coyotes #88 – W
Born: 1988/04/14 Age: 21
Height: 6-2 Weight: 205
Place of birth: Bloomington, MN, USA
Seasons: 2
I’ve been a fan of Mueller for some time now, so I actually really like this, in theory. I believe he’s mainly played C/RW.
My only reservation is our defensive depth.
do you think we could get
Mueller and Michalek for Corvo? That would be a steal :-)
Mueller
I would really appreciate your take on Mueller. I didn’t follow his play until I read about his situation in Phoenix.
one of the few guys to leave the USNDL for the CHL. He played really well for the US Junior squad in ‘04 – the World Juniors Team that year was realy good.
two generic knocks against him are his lack of physical game and poor skating skills, but I really liked him in the shootout last year and you’ve got to have some feet for that. He’s got plenty of upside and still pretty young. Though I think the Yotes shouldn’t have rushed him into the NHL, he should have played in the AHL after his overage year in juniors, imo.
No … they wouldn’t do that. Michalek is huge for them (one of the game’s best shot blockers, plus — like Gleason — untapped offensive potential) and Mueller scored 20 as a rookie. He actually might be one of those guys who is targeted for an offer sheet this offseason, b/c PHX is unlikely to give him a big-time deal based on his struggles this year, but I bet a lot of teams would love to have the guy.
I, too, like his game a lot.
by Cory Lavalette on Nov 23, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I like them both … both very good, young players. Michalek is UFA after this year, so maybe they’d move him if they thought he’ll be leaving. The thing is … will he want to go play with his brother in Ottawa?
by Cory Lavalette on Nov 23, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
No 3rd line center
I agree this whole excercise crashes with Yelle/Brindy as 3rd lne center. They’re both marginal 4th line.
by drifterscape on Nov 23, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
I voted to try Staal at wing-why not, but I wonder if all of this is not jumping the gun a little. Which Staal will we see? I expect to see a wiser Staal who is also considerably more capable (less injured) than the Staal who finally allowed himself to stay out with an injury. His level of fight was high enough that we didn’t realize how injured he was, without the injuries he will return to his old ways.
I hope that Staal comes back as the Staal we have been expecting. Too many Canes seem to have forgotten themselves somewhere between Boston and the ECF.
I could imagine Staal on the wing for a limited time, and maybe in certain situations, but not permanently. He’s been out for quite a while; it might take him a few games to get his timing back. Putting him on the wing would allow him to ease himself back into the swing of things, although he might struggle there if he’s just not comfortable with the position to begin with. I wouldn’t think of moving him permanently to the wing, though.
Paul Maurice has stated that he is very happy with the Cullen line and it’s doubtful that group gets changed anytime soon. But eventually, the team would like Jussi Jokinen to center Ruutu and Samsonov, remaking the “All Euro” line which was so effective during the playoffs last year. The coaching staff really likes Jokinen at center
.
then save it for the playoffs.. ‘till then, just leave things as they are, if it ain’t broke, then don’t fix it! we gotta streak going and the last thing we need to do is shuffle lines and create more inconsistencies!
by 3yrsnoplayoffs? on Nov 23, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions
why did i write that? jeez.. long day!
by 3yrsnoplayoffs? on Nov 23, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
After a few of the epics I've written,
I blame it on alcohol.
Either too much or not enough.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Staal-Cole-Whitney
Sutter-Ruutu-Jussi
Cullen-Sammy-Walker
Rod-TKO-Rosie
Yelle will find his way to Albany when Staal and Walker come back. Although I’ve been impressed with Sutter I’m not convinced his ready for the first line full-time. If he stays consistent in scoring then we may take a second look at the lines. For now Staal has nothing to prove we know he’s an all-star.
So, all my teams suck!
After the start to his season Staal has a lot to prove. Of the two stars this team has on the IR right now, one played well the first ten games of the season, one did not. If Staal was that injured to start the season then he should of sat. There’s no telling what he cost this team by not being able to produce to his level.
Staal has a lot to prove when he comes back as he has to take a lot of the responsibility for the slow start.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
What I mean is for the most part Staal has been consistent with his stats. We know we will get X amount of goals from him. Sutter, I hope can prove he can also contribute to our offense.
Staal has scored 153 goals over the previous four years for an average of 38 goals per year. Only Alex Ovechkin, Ilya Kovalchuk, Jarome Iginla, Vincent Lecavalier, and Dany Heatley have lit the lamp more times in that same period.
A TRUE CANIAC......YES I AM........
But (to canescup) that messes with the top 2 lines that Mo says he wants to keep intact….Otherwise, I think that’s pretty good. Did you think Staal could/should play first line wing?
Hurricanes Hockey: Never for the faint of heart.
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 23, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
I know Mo and JR say they don’t want to mess up the first two lines but thats crazy talk. When Staal comes back we all know he is going on the first line. Playing him as a wing I personally feel its more his decision to make. I think Staal will be an all-star player if he is on the wing or center. I still would like to see Sutter and Staal on different lines giving us more scoring depth.
A TRUE CANIAC......YES I AM........
Building NHL Teams Through the Center and Coast to Coast Hockey
I think by next year Staal will center a first line, Sutter will center a second line, and Jokinen will center a third line. I think NHL teams are built around a first tier goalie and then through the center.
As a hockey convert after playing basketball forever ago, I see similarities in the theories behind the game. As a high school kid who thought he was a hot shot, I had a college coach who was coaching a summer league of college players and prospects explain to me that I was absolutely nothing unless I could take it coast to coast. In his words, as long as somebody else had to help you get it to the hoop, I was … well, nothing (he used more coarse language). In watching and playing basketball, I realized how that simple concept really explained a tremendous amount about hockey and basketball.
In the NHL, I believe every line has to have a player who has the speed, skill, and finish to go coast to coast. Staal and Sutter are the Hurricanes two coast to coast players. Cole has the speed and skill to go coast to coast; but hasn’t done so for some time. Boychuk already has shown he has the speed and quickness to take the puck coast to coast.
If the Hurricanes choose to go with Staal, Sutter, and Jokinen as the centers, and if therefore Cullen is traded, I hope that Cullen will be traded for a forward who is similar to Staal and Sutter in being a tall, fast, and able to impose his will on the opponents; and when he takes the puck out of the corner and takes it himself across the blue line and scores, I will hear Coach Eddie Williams, saying, “that’s what I am talking about, coast to coast and to the hoop.”
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