Late Penalty Dooms Carolina: Leafs 3, Canes 2
by Bob Wage on Nov 7, 2009 2:02 AM EST
204 comments
Good teams find a way to win. Bad teams find a way to lose, and that is exactly what the Carolina Hurricanes did as they dropped their 11th game in a row, this time by a score of 3-2 to the Toronto Maple Leafs on Friday night at the RBC.
The Canes jumped out to a 2-0 lead in the opening period then watched as the Leafs tied things up in the second, a period which has been a thorn in the side of the club all season long. The Hurricanes have now allowed 22 goals during the second period this season, more than any other period.
With the evenly matched teams tied at two, they battled back and forth in the third period until Rod Brind'Amour was called for holding behind the Leaf's net. Then the usually reliable Carolina penalty kill allowed an opening and Jason Blake buried his opportunity, giving Toronto a 3-2 lead and the eventual win.
After that key goal the Canes would try and try but could not put the biscuit in the basket, regardless how open the net seemed. They poured 18 shots on goal in the third period and at times had Jonas Gustavsson faked down and out, but they could not lift the puck over the sprawled goalie.
"The Monster" did have a very good game though and certainly outplayed his counterpart, Cam Ward, at the other end of the rink.
The loss solidified Carolina's spot in last place in the NHL, at least until they can muster a couple of wins. But most fans are probably wondering exactly when that will happen.
Brandon Sutter scored again for Carolina, his third goal in the last four games. He's proving that it was a huge mistake sending him to Albany after training camp as he is now one of the leading goal scorers on the team. Sergei Samsonov scored the other goal, on a rebound opportunity.
The Leafs opened the second period on a mission as they held the puck in the Carolina zone for over a minute just like they were on a powerplay, until scoring their first goal of the game just 1:12 into the period. About six minutes later they scored again, this time on a rush as Nikolai Kulemin beat the Canes defense to the front of the net.
The Canes had a bit more jump in the third period, but again the Brind'Amour penalty turned out to be the key play of the game. After the game Paul Maurice stated that he was not happy about the call. There were only three penalties called in the entire game up to that point, but the penalty was called, the winning goal was scored, and the home fans went home disappointed once again.
After the game, lockers were being slammed and things were being thrown around the Carolina dressing room. But most players disappeared very quickly once the press entered the room.
Zach Boychuk and Brandon Sutter stayed behind and answered a few questions.
I asked Boychuk how he felt he performed in the game and asked him to describe the play where he intercepted a pass and broke into the clear for a breakaway. He said that he felt like he had a pretty good game overall and had several good scoring chances. The puck was bouncing on him a bit during his breakaway, but the goalie made a good stop on him as he got his shot off as best he could.
You can listen to that interview here: Zach Boychuk interview
Sutter said that the team is very frustrated. The video of his interview is at the bottom of the page. Both youngsters got decent ice time, (Sutter 17:29, Boychuk 15:11), so the coaching staff got the memo from the front office.
Zach Boychuk showcased his skills pretty well. He gives the team a lot of quickness and possible game changing speed as he showed on his breakaway as he out-skated two Leaf players who were initially even with him. The youngster led the team with five shots on goal. He is also not afraid to get into the dirty areas on the ice, despite his relatively small size.
The Canes will try to forget about the last 11 games and put themselves into the victory column with a win in Columbus on Saturday night.
Game Notes:
- Carolina went 35:37 without a penalty, the second longest span of the season for them. They were called for two minors, but the one in the third was the killer.
- The Canes were 0-3 with the man advantage, including just 23 seconds of a partial powerplay at the end of the game. They are now 0-25 in the last five games.
- The team has now given up two consecutive goals for the 15th time in 15 games this season.
- Their faceoff percentage was much better as they won 60% of draws. Brind'Amour won 100%, (7-7) and Sutter was at 64%, (7-11).
- Erik Cole led the team with five hits. The Canes out-hit the Leafs 29-19.
- Cole and Cullen kept trying to set up Boychuk for his first NHL goal, but it was not meant to be this time around.
When will the pain end? One thing is certain, it will not be easy for the team to dig it's way out of this hole.
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a bright spot
Sutters’s goal made #10 on ESPN’s Top 10 plays of the day yesterday. This is ESPN (Sportscenter), not NHL Network. The other 9 were NBA and College football. I’m looking for a video to link, but check out Sportscenter this morning and I’m sure it’ll be up every 30 minutes.
Well done kiddo!
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
here ya go Mrs Sutter:
Top 10 plays from Friday according to ESPN – they put it up a little while ago.
Of course, listening again, the announcer pronouced it Brandon Souter (like the supreme court justice.) Apparently, the spokesman for the the leading sports network is unfamiliar with the name Sutter in the NHL – so sad so sad. Mixed bag for the Sutters I guess.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Possibly. I thought of that too. But still – Sutter is hardly an unfamiliar name in the NHL. I actually thought that the shot was chosen as top 10 because of his pedigree. Until I listened to the voiceover.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Hmmm…I don’t know. Probably not.
If it were my mother, she’d find a way to get though. I don’t see Mrs. Sutter being any different.
Very true: I’m sure he has an uncle or cousin somewhere who can figure it out for her.
Are you channeling his joy and pride? Might be a relief from the overall depression. Find your moments of joy and live there till the rest sorts itself out.
Also – I was thinking that you may not be the only 20-something girl in a #16 third jersey soon. How do you get recognized for being among the first?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
Oh-I am very excited for him. I really enjoyed watching him (and Boychuk) play last night. It’s nice watching someone’s lifelong dream come true.
And as far as other bandwagon Sutter fans, I don’t know. I kind of liked the distinction of being the only one rocking the black #16. Maybe in my heart, I’ll have to know I was the first. Or maybe when I finally track him down long enough to sign it, he can add “first” to his signature or something. :) And I was the legit first order. They didn’t even have his number and letters manufactured yet. I had to wait until they became available.
I noticed both kids were ready to move on and go for a win tonight. That’s something.
Be interested to see what kind of ice time the kids get tonight. I thought they both played well. I think it’s becoming apparent the mistakes made early on, but just bringing the kids up doesn’t fix most of the issues. It does get the team to more of a run and gon O instead of the geriatric effort we’ve seen. I think the kids will help with some attitude issues, too. Then the buck stops.
Someone said Yelle had a good game, I disagree, I think he’s a barnicle on the ass of this garbage scow that needs to be scraped off and shit canned. Rod’s another one. Cam has lost his magic, I’d say two softy’s. So Cam wasn’t a wall and Rod’s penalty sunk the scow. Real shame, I liked the first period alot.
So wtf is up with the second period? Obviously we all want 60, but man I’d settle for not crumbling in the second now. First we were coughing 3 in the first, looks like we fixed that. Now it’s the second period. Yikes!!
Pits and Ruutu looked a little off the game I like to see them play. Not bad, but for this team to excel they have to play huge.
I’m thinking that the front office has said play the kids, for the most part that looked like a winning strategery. So can they extrapulate that this is the time to forget about PO’s and use this as part of the re building process, or will they keep kicking the horse?
My big question is when Ray and Staal get back what happens to the kids?
Man what a train wreck this is turning into!
A
Bob – I think you just made CGs morning…
:)
by Andrea's evil twin on Nov 7, 2009 8:06 AM EST reply actions
The loss solidified Carolina’s spot in last place in the NHL, at least until they can muster a couple of wins. But most fans are probably wonderingexactly whenif that will ever happen.
by Andrea's evil twin on Nov 7, 2009 8:09 AM EST reply actions
Bob, your first couple of sentences nail it. Not sure if the anger in the dressing room is a good thing. Those guys need inspiration, motivation… where’s that going to come from? Obviously not from Smiley Mo.
As many have already said, Sutter is the best player we have right now. He has 3 goals in 3 games. He MUST stay on this team, no way will he get sent down… ever… so somebody has to go.
One of the things I was thinking driving home was that last year, when the team had some energy, they tended to wear teams out by the third period and could score some late ones. That ain’t happening this year. We’re the worn out ones. Did Bayda really make that big of an impact? Or is their confidence so low that they just can’t get the jump?
P.S. – To all my fellow ladies, just watched the intro piece FSN did, and dang… Boychuk can stay!
SEE! I knew it wasn’t just me that thought that. Holy cow. I never in a million years expected him to look like that.
My recording started at 7:03. Kessel was the story. Must have been before that?
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
I was at the game last night with a handful of Maple Leafs in front of me. Sigh Any ways, am I the only one that thinks Ruutu has lost a step? He seems slow, afraid to finish his checks and clumsier since the incident with Tucker. I’m not a Samsonov fan by no means but he played a good game last night. Boychuck was awesome on the ice. We all know Sutter has played his way on this team. Four goals for the Canes in 3 games and 3 of those are Sutters. And Cam, oh Cam… why is he letting those soft goals get by him? My last thought, Aaron Ward SUCKS!
Live & Learn
I agree he has not been the same player since the suspension. But he is also fighting an injury, so that might be part of the problem. But Ruutu is not a dirty player, he does not want to hurt anyone. So the Tucker incident along with the suspension might have slowed him down a bit.
GM of CanesCountry.com
Q for Bob:
Mike M on his postgame passed along that there was a lot of anger in the Canes locker room. He suggested Gatorade bottles thrown and tables overtruned. He seemed to think “It’s about time!”. What’s your take on it? Was this anything you’ve seen before? if you had to guess, who/what was it directed at (themselves, the refs, the situation, Gustavsson)?
I guess I’m trying to figure out if this is something big enough to help be a catalyst get some dignity and fight back for these guys – instead of collapsing everytime the other team scores. I want them to be thinking – NO F*C)(G Way you’re getting this one you S((*T HEADS!. THIS GAME IS OURS!!! THe new A TImmy Gleason comes to mind.
I’m glad we haven’t had any fights since Conboy and Harrison disappeared. That was not a strategy that worked for this team and I think did more harm then good. Just didn’t fit, even if Mo seemed to encourage it.
I’ve dropped my expectations (as I’ve said often) but I am a huge fan of this team and these players. They’ll be a helluva team when they figure it out. (Or else they will all be in different cities trying to forget it ever happened). I hope it’s the first.
PS Anyone notice it’s Paladin and all the ladies here this morning? Guess the guys are sleeping it off. Or are cave dwellers till this gets back on course. (being from Mars and all)
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
Wow HM-that was some very un-momlike language there. Although maybe not so un-hockeymomlike. :)
And Bob, I second HM"s question about the anger. Good, bad or neutral for the team?
There comes a time when you need to drop the gloves and spell it out girlfriend. The boys need to let it fly (not with fists but with shoulders, churning legs and razor-sharp passes). I want them to look hungrier when the other team scores not whipped.
I may have lived in the south for over 25 years, but I was born in New Jersey.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
What did you think of Sutter almost scoring an empty netter at the end of the game against his own team. Five more inches and he would’ve never lived that down.
That was a bad moment. But I was more concerned with whoever was going back after the puck taking a year and a half to catch up to it.
And if Wallin can get over it, then so would have Sutter.
Wallin might of put it behind him but Canes fans remember things like that for ever. From where I was sitting I thought it was going in but I’m glad it didn’t go down that way.
I guess I have a shorter memory than other fans because I’ve let the Wallin thing go entirely; it doesn’t bother me anymore.
But yeah, it would have been a dark moment for Brandon.
Yea, if that was his only bad play…. Wallin just keeps ’em coming.
Sutter has three goals in 5 games how about Wallin….how does that compare the whole stinkin’ ass team?
A
I told you not bringing the kids up was a mistake...
I really don’t have an issue with Wallin’s game. But maybe it’s because I don’t expect more from him than he’s capable of giving. Are there mistakes? Yup. Do I think he’s the worst d-man in the league? Definitely not. Do I think he’s the worst d-man on the team? Nope.
Is he a member of the worst D in the league???
Arguably!
A
I told you not bringing the kids up was a mistake...
Do I think he’s the worst d-man on the team?
Then would you give that to Alberts or AWard?
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Um, frankly I was going to go with Harrison, but I guess since he’s technically no longer with us…probably A.Ward. Mainly because he should be heads and shoulders above most of these guys and he’s not.
I thought he looked good Vs FLorida. Better than he has in awhile. AWard seems to play with more phyciality than Wallin. He had 2 blocked Shots last night. Just my impression. ANd I like Nikki and usually defend him. He just seems slower and more likely to be the loser when there’s a battle in the crease this year. Maybe I should be happy he even goes there.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I guess my expectations for A.Ward were much much higher than what he’s given me so far. JR, and others, talked him up to be a jedi master of defense and all I heard about was how this would allow Pits to really open up his game. Blah blah blah. So far, I’m not seeing it. In fact, all I’m seeing is the two of them (Pits and AWard) fighting like school children on the way back to the bench.
With that being said, his game has gotten better and he’s certainly not the only one on the team not living up to expectations. I’m just really disappointed in him. So maybe it should have been the “d-man I’m most disappointed in.”
I hear ya. I think Pitkanen is a mystery to many. (someone used the word ‘Creepy’ ;) )
How many games have they been paired? AWard was worried about that with Pits missing the pre-season. With all the D injuries I’m not sure they’ve been paired together all that much. I think they’re both smart hockeyplayers and motivated and I’d like to think AWard will figure out how to make Pits work with him. I think Award is more compeitiive than Pits. Aaron comes across as a self-centered A** but I’d like to think he’s got enough people-smarts to work with our odd-ball Finn and bring out his best, once they establish some trust.
Maybe that’s too optimistic. ?
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I think they’ve been together in every game Pits has played, but I could be wrong. They may get their relationship (we’ve turned this into a soap opera now!) together some day and I think it’s going to be a great thing to see. So no, it’s not too optimistic. Well I take that back-it may be too optimistic for the current time frame.
And as far as our odd-ball goes-it’s Creepie (a noun). Creepy is an adjective. LOL. Speaking of which-did you see him staring off into space on the bench last night? He was looking up into the rafters with a classic “how did I get here?” look. My dog does the same thing when she’s watching lint.
I thought they were mixed some while Timmy was out. Like perhaps AWard was with Corvo? Or did they just put Wallin with Corvo with the all-7’s line?
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Hmmm…I don’t know. That sounds like a possibility. Let me do a little digging and see what I can come up with.
Ok from what I can find, Corvo and Wallin were paired together during Timmy’s absence (thank you CC archives).
Pits and A.Ward stayed together-maybe to work on that missing chemistry.
Oh god. My eyes!!!!
Counselor: “So Joni, you feel that Aaron doesn’t listen when you talk correct?”
Joni: “Oh ya.”
Counselor: “Aaron, what could you do differenlty to be more open to Joni’s point of view?”
Aaron: “Well in my experience, active listening is the most advantageous exercise. Perhaps, I should make a greater effort to reflect and repeat his points. I wouldn’t want to be thought of as a uncommunicative barbarian.”
Counselor: “Joni how does that make you feel? Joni! Are you paying attention…JONI!”
Joni: “Oh ya.”
Yeah I could see that working. LOL
And besides – the little chats as they skate to the bench definitely make it seem about like a love-hate relationship.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Aaron and Joni
I think this is indeed a tough pairing on the communicative side, but that any pairing with Joni would be so. Finns can sometimes think they had an extensive conversation with you when all they really did was use a few words, make a sympathetic or descriptive sound, and have a subtle facial reaction.
Pair that with Aaron, blessed with the gift of gab, and there could be some frustrations, at least on Aaron’s part.
I do know that when Gleason was our guest a couple of years ago at the We Love the Hurricanes lunch he seemed subtly apprehensive to me about his speculated-at-the-time pairing with Joni. Could just be new partner nervousness, but he also had told us earlier that he liked a partner that would communicate with him on the ice.
Perhaps Joni is more of the silent assasin type out there, inadvertently frustrating partners. But, back to point, who better to crack that nut than Mr. Talkative?
We all know you’re just here for the wimmin anyway.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
anger in the room
When we were walking down the hall to the locker room, we heard stuff getting smashed and things getting slammed. The team was preparing their gear to be moved because they were leaving soon for Columbus, so part of it was that they were throwing gear out to the center of the room, much louder than usual. By the time we actually got to the room, players were leaving quickly. (one reporter quipped, they are moving faster now than they did during the game).
I did not see any tables over turned, but I didn’t see the training room. Why were they angry? Probably a combination of things. When Sutter was asked about it, he just said they were frustrated, which is understandable.
I wouldn’t say it was “over the top” anger that I had never witnessed before, but they were certainly angry.
GM of CanesCountry.com
Grasping at straws here...
As long as it wasn’t directed at each other, I think that might be an ok thing. It’s better than them not giving a darn.
oh, and personally I think the anger is good. It’s much better than accepting the loss as just another game.
GM of CanesCountry.com
Not to push my pop psych metaphor but: Do you see this as moving past denial? or moving past depression?
I guess we’ll know after 60 minutes tonight.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Why were they angry? Maybe because the veterans are seeing the youngsters get it done and know their jobs are at stake.
by THE_NEW_CANES on Nov 7, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
A few items
1). Glad to see walker yelle and tko back as the fourth line. Paladin I’m not sure what game you were watching last night but that line took a number of shifts and held their own. They calmed the play down in the second by taking two or three shifts late in the period that gave the canes a chance to calm down and regain momentum.
2). Setting up boychuk is nice but it may have cost the canes a goal IMO.
3) I think boychuk will look great next to staal and cole. Those two should be able to get Zach open ice and feed him the puck.
4). It would be better for boychuk to go back to Albany. He has a lot of talent, but he made a few junior/AHL moves last night. He needs a few more games against top pairs in the A to hone his craft a little more IMO. I’d say he should be ready just about the Olympic break or trade deadline.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
by C-Leaguer on Nov 7, 2009 9:58 AM EST via mobile reply actions
The Line wasn’t bad but was unimpressive.
So lemme get this right, the kids first game, he makes great plays and a couple rookie mistakes but keep Yelle.
Must be nice Koolaid, you related to the “family”
Obviously not aware of what is and has taken place. That kid played like a top 6 forward (granted of this team) last night, you are wrong.
A
Thanks for the kind words P.
I said boychuk made some AHL moves, which he did. There were times he attacked the center when it was clogged. Times he had passes and shot instead. Its not a bad game by any stretch but just like staal and sutter benefitted from time in the AHL so to will boychuk. Juniors to the big league is two steps. Very few players can do that at once and do it well. Boychuk will benefit more playing angainst top pairs in the A and funding ways to make it work more than he will benefit playing against d men who will shut him down right now night in and night out. And before you use last night as an example remember that Toronto isn’t exactly a world bearer.
As for the fourth line, what more can you ask except a few chances, some dpendable minutes, and limited chances aganst. Fourth line players are role players. As even the Yankees have learned you need role players to win. The fourth line did its job last night.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
by C-Leaguer on Nov 7, 2009 1:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well Wylde had this position and we have been back and forth.
I think Boychuck did a great job and I think he was under instructions to not pass and shoot.
I really find it hard to believe you think he’d develope anything in a better way than what he was doing last night.
I still think you are way wrong, the family crack may have been abit much..
;-)
A
I told you not bringing the kids up was a mistake...
Yes, Paladin6, he had a nice debut. Incredible talent and I can hardly wait. But no question he would benefit from more major minutes before we expose him to the top D talent in the NHL.
Also, realistically, his slot won’t open up until just before the trade deadline. And, I agree with C-Leaguer that he will benefit from even those few extra months at the AHL level.
Yes, it’s tough to see such a pretty thing and not want it now. But, Patience will pay here. And I have the long term view.
That’s the best response ever.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
by C-Leaguer on Nov 7, 2009 4:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A few items
1). Glad to see walker yelle and tko back as the fourth line. Paladin I’m not sure what game you were watching last night but that line took a number of shifts and held their own. They calmed the play down in the second by taking two or three shifts late in the period that gave the canes a chance to calm down and regain momentum.
2). Setting up boychuk is nice but it may have cost the canes a goal IMO.
3) I think boychuk will look great next to staal and cole. Those two should be able to get Zach open ice and feed him the puck.
4). It would be better for boychuk to go back to Albany. He has a lot of talent, but he made a few junior/AHL moves last night. He needs a few more games against top pairs in the A to hone his craft a little more IMO. I’d say he should be ready just about the Olympic break or trade deadline.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
by C-Leaguer on Nov 7, 2009 9:58 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Boychuk mistakes??
I see Vets makeing alot more mistakes than he did. Rod’s been playing hockey 50 years and still pauses before he shoots.
I liked Harwood’s interview with him above. Refreshing break from the angst the vets are feeling. Just what we need.
I thought Cole trying to set him up was also just what the doctor ordered. Cole is not a shooter, he was the playmaker and had the speed strength and smarts to be perfect with Zach. Letting Cole focus on supporting Boychuk will be a great simplifier for Erik. LilChuk had team-leading 5 SOG. if they have the same lines to night, I predict that he will get his first NHL point tonight.
And did you see Zach fight it out on the boards a few times to successfully get possession? And he landed 2 hits in his 15 minutes – and they weren’t wimpy ones either for a little guy (a little Rosey in him) – Whitney’s had 3 hits this season in over 250 min TOI.
I LOVE Ray Whitney and I LOVE Chad LaRose, but Boychuk gives me something to think about. At his best he might be a great fusion of those 2 personalities. This will be fun to watch.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Do you want to talk about what boychuk can do or do you want him to do it? If you want him to do it then he should probably play another half season in the AHL. He will get there faster that way. Or he can stay up and be another Shane Willis or David tanabe.
Also sorry about the double post and the spelling. Just got a new blackberry and still figuring it out. I know what’s causing the spelling (user error) but not sure about the double post. Haven’t had that happen before.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
by C-Leaguer on Nov 7, 2009 1:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh yea, no chance he’ll be a Staal, Stamkos or tavares…
I say give the kid another 8 games with that many minutes and it will be obvious which one of us is wrong. I got beers on which of us it is…
A
I told you not bringing the kids up was a mistake...
You’re on. I will send you the address where you can send my six packs of duck rabbit milk stout. When boychuk has to play a team that’s not terrible and doesn’t give him space like Toronto did you will see that he is still relying in being more talented naturally than his opponents and that he isn’t yet thinking at the nhl level the way sutter is. When that happens those cold milk stouts are gonna be oh so tasty.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
by C-Leaguer on Nov 7, 2009 3:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So if he’s held scoreless then I can be declared the winner tonight? ;-)
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
by C-Leaguer on Nov 7, 2009 4:33 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hell, no. If, and I think he will. get’s 8 games in whether or not he’s made the jump. You all were saying the same crap about Sutter, now he’s got 5 games and three goals under his belt and everyone seems to think it’s a given he stays. Give Boychuck the same shot and I think he will earn his spot too. Mo drops him down to 4 minutes a night, then he’s just gonna waste the kids time and ours.
If your local, I’ll buy you a 6 pack next i’m down if you promise to share.
All I’m saying you keep feeding that kid and playing him like an NHL’er, he’s gonna respond like one. I agree he isn’t as settled as Sutter, but I think that’s also part of his game. Joni used to be able to hit anything that moved with a pass, we got a kid that skate with anybody, i think you give him real minutes, he’s gonna earn ’em.
With luck and no change in plan I think we may see what I have been hoping for. The kids ain’t the whole answer, but they will help and God knows we need speed. Boychuck is the fastest guy on the roster and in the wings.
A
I told you not bringing the kids up was a mistake...
Could and should
Those of us in slight disagreement as to the timing of his emergence to the NHL are simply differentiating between “could” and “should”.
Sure, he could play at this level now, with risk of limiting his development and subjecting him to injury from some guys that are paid a lot of money to hurt people.
But, we’re simply of the opinion that he shouldn’t. That there’s no use rushing things prematurely. The better thing for both Zach and the org is for him to spend a few more months in the AHL, playing top line minutes in all situations and getting a few more muscle-memory moves at pro speed.
His slot and time will emerge sometime between now and the trade deadline.
Patience. He who is time-constrained loses.
Canes v. Leafs
I agree with the comments that Brind’Amour’s penalty was the final nail in the coffin for the team last night. It was obvious to me from Row 105 as the cycling sequence began that Brind’Amour not only was out of gas but that the Leafs had targeted him. I was already cursing that Brind’Amour was going to lose the game for the Hurricanes, when alas he exceeded my expectations in that regard. The second period was not horrible; but Ward simply let the team down in that period. The Mitchell’s first goal of the season (and we seem to be a team that loves to help opposing players get the first goal of the season) looked like a simple play. In the second goal, Aaron Ward gave too much space in the corner, but Jokinen was in great position. The shot really should have been stopped.
Many of us have been adamant that Sutter and Boychuk needed to be up on the team. Both were excellent last night. This team desperately needs their explosiveness. I don’t know whether it shows as well on tv, but at the RBC it was clear Boychuk and Sutter are the two fastest skaters for the Hurricanes and Boychuk appeared to me to be the fastest player on the ice.
I liked how Samsonov/Jokinen/Ruutu played; even though I think Ruutu is banged up. Having Boychuk with Cullen and Cole gives the Hurricanes one line that is truly fast. It would work miracles for the team if Cullen and Cole could find their scoring touch. As for the defense, Wallin continues to be slow, dazed, and easily intimidated. Alberts made some puck-handling mistakes, but I don’t recall them leading to goals. Aaraon Ward still doesn’t seem to be comfortable with this system. LaRose is doing nothing this year for me. I like him, but two assists and no goals this deep into the year is really disappointing given the ice team he has received. Kostopoulos deserves for ice team. Yelle is a disappointment as well. I didn’t notice him being totally awful, but I didn’t see anything that looked even above average from him. To me the sad thing is there are fixes to the team that don’t require blowing up the team. I would (1) sit Wallin immediately; (2) move Brind’Amour to the fourth line immediately (the truth I would healthy scratch him for a few games and then move him to the fourth line); (3) I would bring up one of the defensemen from Albany — I haven’t formed that strong an opinion on who it should be; (4) I would search the waiver wires for an underachieving but affordable large-frame forward; (5) I would put Sutter and Boychuk on the power play to see if they can find the net and (6) I would give minutes on the ice based on performance rather than pedigree — if a player is giving it his all, he gets TOI; and those players taking shifts off would be lumped into a line where the watch much more of the game; (7) if things didn’t improve, I’d bring up Bowman as see if his scoring skills at the AHL level would translate into NHL goals. I would make other changes, but these changes can be accomplished with the players on hand.
I agree with most of this doug. I was wondering if my H1N1 infected children (now 3 for 3) could cough on some cookies before I send them over to the Wallin and Yelle households. Bring up Rodney. When Whitney comes back, sit Yelle, and move Brindy to 4th line. Give Bowman just a couple games like they did Boychuk last year – just to see how he looks in the NHL.
Could we swap TKO and LaRose a bit? Or is Rosey still doing his trade auditions?
When Staal comes back, it’s safe to say someone else will be injured and go on IR and they can trade.
Tangential question: How does Staal’s injury affect the Canes’ salary cap calculations? That seems to be a key piece for those closer to the cap.. like Philly or Boston.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Putting LaRose on the Fourth Line
I agree with hockeymomof2 LaRose should be on the fourth line and Kostopoulos should move up — although it gets complicated because Samsonov/Jokinen/Ruutu play well together and I don’t know that I would mess with one of the few lines that work well together as a cohesive unit. I think I would have a fourth line of LaRose/Brind/Amour/Kostopoulos (or Walker) when Whitney and Staal return. In my view, we sit whomever we need to sit to let Sutter and Boychuk stay on the first two lines. I believe LaRose will be traded within the next ten days; but that is gut instinct and not based on fact. The only fact I know is that given the time on ice that LaRose has received, no goals and two assists this far into the season and being a non-factor in virtually every game is a recipe for getting yourself traded. I think Walker will now be traded as well — due to his salary and his upcoming UFA status. I also am convinced that but for Brind’Amour’s pedigree his play is so wretched overall that he would have been put up in the stands to watch quite a few games. It has to be devastating to team morale to have a captain be a shadow of his former self and lack the self-awareness to know he is no longer an NHL quality player. It’s like watching an aging rock star become a caricature of himself.
No Trade Clause
You are correct, Walker has a NTC. He is also in the final year of his contract. A NTC does not end discussions about a trade. Given Walker’s age and the size of his contract, he might well prefer to be traded to a team that would want to re-sign him. I don’t know if the Hurricanes can afford Walker in light of the fact that Cullen is also in the final year of his contract. I have assumed that the Hurricanes would re-sign Cullen and possibly Whitney, but would not re-sign Walker, Wallin, Corvo, Yelle, Ryan, Conboy, and perhaps Aaron Ward.
Here are the NTC players:
NHL Trade Deadline Preview: Eastern Conference
By Alan Bass
Mar 4, 2009 – 11:55:44 AM
ALLENTOWN, Pa – With the NHL trade deadline approaching on March 4, 3PM EST, teams are gearing up for what could be a big day. With many pending pieces of trade bait available, you can expect some big fish to bite. Most of the teams will be making moves, with a predicted number of moves being more than twenty!
Here is a look at what we think might happen in the Eastern Conference.
Photo courtesy of Onfrozenblog.com
Carolina Hurricanes
Cap space: 5.657 million
No trade clause: Frantisek Kaberle, Scott Walker, Niclas Wallin, Ray Whitney, Eric Staal
He may agree if the team he goes to is willing to resign him, but even then I’m not sure. He has pretty strong ties to the area so I think it would take a lot for him to leave.
Walker and the Community
Scott Walker is such a great player to have on a team. He battles and he still has great wheels. My preference would be for him to take a pay cut and to retire with the team. I can’t think of a better fourth line wing; but I can’t see the Hurricanes being able to afford him unless the fanbase figures out that failing to show up for games really has consequences for the team’s budget. That is a discussion about budget and fanbase participation especially when the team is at rock botton is one for another day, I guess.
Mike Maniscalco went on for 10 minutes against benching Brindy last night when a post-game caller stated that needed to happen. MM kept saying that when you spend time in the locker room you realize how much Rod does for thsi team and how respected he is…It must be complicated. MM is so upset with the play of the team, he’s not pulling punches but he was adamant that Brind’Amour is not the problem.
Is this just loyalty? I can’t tell.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
I personally think Rods best years are behind him. It hurts to see someone want to compete but can’t keep up. He does get alot of respect in the hockey world but what do you do with someone that has lost their game. He needs to get sit with Dancin Granny since they are close in age (..Ok that was just mean but Rod frustrates me..).
I think Rod needs to do the honorable thing and pull a Dave Andreychuk; acknowledge that he’s toast and move on to management. If he hung them up tomorrow, he’d still go out a winner. Plus, when attendance drops below 12,000 (sometime in the next few weeks the way things are going), they can announce a “Rod Brind’amour” night and put a couple thousand more people in the seats for a night to watch them raise his jersey.
Manisackwasher can talk about Rod being a great lockerroom guy all he wants. But the game is played on the ice, not in the showers.
by East of Here on Nov 7, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
The Aging Warrior and Mike Maniscalco
I heard that exchange with MM and the Caller. MM’s tone was one where all logic was abandoned and he was no longer speaking rationally. There could be an argument to retain Brind’Amour, but MM didn’t make it as far as I was concerned. The very fact MM was so emotional spoke volumes to me. Brind’Amour is not the only problem with the team; but he is a problem that can and should be fixed. When the only argument given for a team’s captain staying on the ice is that he used to be a great player and he is a great role model off the ice, you have your answer. I agree that Brind’Amour’s time has come; and he owes it to his teammates and the franchise to let it go gracefully the way Glen Wesley did; rather than being carried off the ice kicking and screaming with fingernails scraping the ice.
Doug maybe he shoulkd watch the pig misery that was Stevie Y’s last year. Was a sad end to great career. I keep hoping Rod ponies up and doesn’t just become another one of the guys that just can’t give it up when it’s obviously over.
I thinks it’s obvious now.
A
I told you not bringing the kids up was a mistake...
Its obvious Rod is under achieving but that is with our team. He shows some life each game but he is in a super funk here. I can play 2nd or 3rd line for other teams. I don’t think the guy would be dumb enough to walk out on his contract. He will do what Francis did. Waive his NTC and contribute to another team with the option of returning to Carolina for retirement. Hopefully it will give us something in return either today or down the road.
by THE_NEW_CANES on Nov 7, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
He is one of the last guys I expect to waive his NTC (if he even has one-I can’t imagine him not having one, but haven’t found anything to confirm that he does) because of his personal situation.
He has a NTC. I know his personal situation but his ex- wife lives here I think. If not you are right. But if she does I’m sure he can find a team on the Atlantic coast. He would only have to relocate temporarily and not move his family.
by THE_NEW_CANES on Nov 7, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
She does live here (meaning Raleigh). And not moving his family (or rather not having the ability to do so) is why I don’t see him agreeing to a trade. That man is all about his family and since he can’t take his children with him, I doubt very much he’d be willing to pack it up and move away.
Brind'Amour and NTC
At least according the internet sources I found, Brind’Amour does not have an NTC (No trade clause: Frantisek Kaberle, Scott Walker, Niclas Wallin, Ray Whitney, Eric Staal — see article above). As a practical matter, I can’t imagine Jim Rutherford trading Brind’Amour without his consent given his role in bringing a Stanley Cup to the Hurricanes.
I’ve heard several times the main reason Boyman is not up already is his speed. Apparently he’s as slow as a turtle on ice.
I keep seeing that too. I thought he looked like an awesome skater during the training camp so I am confused. He really had a strength and power to his stride that caught me by surprise. Again, I was seeing him in group “B” so maybe it was just relative.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I did not see the game…. I was at a wedding (it was good)…..
I know that when the season started I was in favor of sending Sutter and Boychuck down to Albany….
I would like to now tell you all that I was wrong and I apologize!
Please keep them here…. we need them BAD!
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Nov 7, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions
Almost as painful....
With regard to the comment:
Mike Maniscalco went on for 10 minutes…..
I wondered if anyone else finds it almost as painful to listen to his postgame show as to watch the Canes lose 11 in a row. The guy loves to hear himself talk, just wish he had something interesting to say.
They are way too homeristic for my tastes, generally. You can tell that they pander to the official party line. I can understand Forslund having to be careful about what he says as he is paid by the team, but Manisackwasher isn’t (I don’t think), so you’d think he’d be more objective. But at least lately, they (even Forslund) have at least acknowledged that this is not a good team. But overall, my biggest gripe with “The Afterbirth” is all these idiots that think it is cute to let their 6 year old call in and babble on and on about whatever.
by East of Here on Nov 7, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
you're very right
but he gets paid to fill the air….and Harwood seems to think he’s pretty sharp. He has insight and he loves the Canes, though he is hardly concise. He and AWard together are excruciating.
But then he’s like pretty much all the announcers on Sports/Talk radio. Gift of gab.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
I still keep thinking of that moment from when the fluff local TV reporter asked him what his favorite State Fair food was and he answered: “I’m not univalent”. What planet is he from?
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
LOL that was a weird one-someone got a word of the day calendar as a prank Christmas gift I think. Safe to say that upon retirement, he will irritate a whole fanbase with his constant chattering during color commentary. Can you imagine him and Tripp together? Oh my god. It would be painful.
I want to see Timmy and AWard interviewed at the same time, with Forslund in the middle, moderating. Talk about a study in contrasts…..
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I just want to see Timmy interviewed ALL THE TIME, I think they should make that standard for every broadcast
You missed him last night. If Tripp had kept yaking any longer, I thought Tim was going to punch him.
now THAT I would pay to see!! I need to start Tivoing all the games I go to, I missed SOOO much just going to the darn game!!
there also must be some kind of “shirtless” rule, and let’s start that tonight…and since they should start tonight they can interview Vermette as well ;)
Yup. It was so funny how Timmy was trying so hard to be tolerant and TV-appropriate.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
quote of the night
The Canes need to fire Maurice, hire someone else, then fire him, then re-hire Maurice again, in order to save the season. from stayclassy.com
GM of CanesCountry.com
The sad fact is, that is not completely implausible, given this team’s history. Of course, given that JR pretty much came out and said (without saying it directly) that Mo is beyond criticism, I find it doubtful that Mo is in any jeopardy of losing his job in the next 3 or 4 years.
by East of Here on Nov 7, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
doubtful that Mo is in any jeopardy of losing his job in the next 3 or 4 years
Three years less 15 games to be exact.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds good – can Lavi be the middle guy again? JR loves re-runs.
Back to Mike M – he was recalling the season a couple years ago for the Caps, when they had a dismal start, then fired their coach and brought in Boudreaux at Thanksgiving and ended up going on a tear from which they haven’t looked back.
This seems like a relevant comparison. Too bad it won’t happen.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
We don’t have half the talent that Washington’s roster did (at that time). We could dig up Herb Brooks and it still would not be enough to motivate this team.
by East of Here on Nov 7, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Smart move. I won’t be watching this one so maybe that will be the key for them to turn it around. You watch, they’ll show Vermette, Timmy and Boychuk shirtless. Sutter will score a hatty. And Cam will post a shutout. And I will miss the whole flippin thing.
Clemson vs. FSU is a 7:45 pm start time. Apparently I’m not doing my collegiate duty by not going to a game so far this season and am being forced to go. I really don’t like football all that much, much less football in the dark and freezing weather.
Hahaha. I should have talked to you earlier! Too bad my roommates already saw me this morning. And they would probably make me go anyway.
morning sickness?
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
We’re just making this up. Maybe the other kids will worry that it’s contagious…
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Can you borrow someones’ smart phone and keep up with it on via cell? I doubt they will be posting scores on the Clemson scoreboard siderails…Or you’ll have Chip’s tweets!
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Oh good call. Check your inbox.
Although I had to learn to keep an eye out for shirtless hot things from somewhere… ;)
Not from what CG has said about her mom…
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Mo beyond criticism??
why is mo beyond criticism? his coaching, attitude, smarts seem to suck. sutter seems to be upbeat caues he’s young and hasn’t been on the hurricanes that long. he was doing well under tony up in albany but maybe even maurice can knock his talent out of him too? why does mo encourage physical play rather than finesse and skill and strategy? i think this is mo’s fault and jr’s. get all the young guys down here NOW for *%$#@ sake. bench brindamour and ward and others who are so-so. and let the newbies get comfortable with cullen, cole, cam…etc…then you will see things turn around. i mean sutter—3 goals in 3 games. doesn’t that tell you something? the fresh unjaded young guys ARE the future of the canes and need to be full time NOW goddammit! have mo give up his salary to pay them.
You're absolutely right about Mo.
But actually for Sutter, it was 3 goals in 4 games – but still 3 consecutive Canes goals. Kind of a Natural Hat trick, playing out in super slow motion over 7 days (saturday to friday).
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
by hockeymomof2 on Nov 7, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
fed up for %&$##@ sake
let’s turn this around!! we cannot stay 30th. i’m happy the players are revolting now. we cannot be the titanic anymore.
I think it’s time for the preview for tonight’s game. The torture continues.
So I'm guessing this would be "bottom"?
The view from the top
Before leaving this thread, just have to say a few words over last night’s game.
Haven’t reviewed the video coverage of the game just yet, but from my seats in the RBC (which are located right below John Forslund’s view of the game), it was evident that the Leafs came out in the second like a house afire and just blew us away. We did not respond well to that push.
Also, I’m curious to see the first goal against in slo-mo, but it sure looked soft in person. Yes, we were perhaps out-goalied last night, but honestly, our shots are just not that dangerous. Somebody needs to make wrist shots a point of emphasis. Elevate, guys! Hate the water bottle!
Boychuk is a phenom. Fastest skater on the ice, by far. I’m looking forward to watching him for years.
Separate topic for discussion elsewhere, but honestly, I believe this org has forgotten what a fourth line is supposed to do for a team.
Disrupt, cause chaos, frustrate, draw penalties, get a power play opportunity for the team, hit someone, hit several someones.
We have the pieces for just such a line. But, seemingly, are trying to use it for some other purpose (fourth “scoring line”?).
Team progress was evident. But, the results plainly speak to the fact that we still are nowhere close to being where we want to be.
I think this is what they call rock bottom- losing to the Maple Leafs :(
Dallas Stars 4 Life: Stars Blogging From Hockeyville, Iowa
by Brad_Richards_Rocks on Nov 7, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions
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