Ex-Hurricanes Update
by Bob Wage on Dec 15, 2009 7:00 AM EST
70 comments
Not only are the Carolina Hurricanes wallowing in last place in the NHL, but many of the team's players have put out less than acceptable individual statistics. For instance, Rod Brind`Amour has 8 points and is -19 in 31 games, Chad LaRose has 6 points and is -14 in 28 games, Tom Kostopoulos has 5 points and is -3 in 32 games, Scott Walker has 4 points and is -1 in 22 games, and Stephane Yelle has 3 points and is -1 in 30 games.
On the other hand, there are some familiar faces no longer on the Canes doing all right for themselves and for their new teams.
Last night, Patrick Eaves scored a shorthanded goal for Detroit and was given first star honors for the game as the Red Wings defeated the Coyotes, 3-2. Eaves has battled injuries this year as he always seems to, but he has scored more goals (3) and has more points (9) than any of the players listed above and has done so in fewer games, (22).
Remarkably, he is also +7 on a Detroit team that has struggled this year. In comparison, Todd Bertuzzi is -6, Dan Cleary is -8, Jason Williams is -5, and Valtteri Filppula is -6. The Hurricanes do not have a single player in the plus column at this point in this season.
Eaves was a throw-away in the Aaron Ward deal during the summer. After the trade, Boston immediately bought the forward out, making him a free agent. He signed with Detroit and looks to be making a name for himself again.
Of course the Hurricanes just put Ward on waivers Monday, but the defenseman who he replaced, Dennis Seidenberg, is having a great year so far in Florida.
Seidenberg is second in the NHL with 96 blocked shots, something he also excelled at when he was with the Hurricanes. His 84 hits lead Florida and he is third on the team averaging more than 21 minutes a game on the ice.
The German native has scored one goal, has 12 assists for 13 points, and is a +4. He has played in all 34 games for the Panthers and presently has better stats than any of the Hurricanes' defensemen.
____
Fans were pretty happy last March when the Hurricanes re-acquired Erik Cole from Edmonton and the winger was certainly instrumental in the team's successful run to the post season. But Justin Williams was sacrificed in the process.
Both of these forwards have had plenty of injury issues in the past, but let's compare how they are doing so far this season.
Williams has a better supporting cast to play with, but he has been the healthier of the two so far this year. One thing for sure, Cole needs to shoot more.
_____
Anton Babchuk decided to play in the KHL, but he's also having a good year. He leads all Avangard defensemen in scoring with 5 goals, 9 assists, 14 points and a +12 rating in 27 games.
Will the ex-Hurricanes continue to do better than their counterparts who were retained by the team?
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I think everyone would agree that Seidenberg would have helped this team more than AWard this year. As for Cole and Williams, their stats are pretty similar prior to this year (Cole about 70 games a year and 330 points in his career, Williams about 65 games a year and 343 points) and we get Erik for $1.2 MM less this year and next. I’d call that a wash.
Babchuk’s numbers really don’t have any context because of the league he’s in.
All in all, not a ton to be sad about (I was a big Seidenberg fan and wanted him for the alt home jersey; good thing I waited to see if he got signed). It’s not as if our castoffs are setting the league on fire.
In other news, the LHC is up and running. I propose we use it to send Bob or Cory into the future and give JR some tips about setting the roster for 2010-11.
I’d argue that Williams has more value beyond stats. He’s a fantastic defensive forward.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 15, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Good point. Yes we all know what mistakes been made by JR and he also knows and already started fixing them. Good for X-canes, glad for them, hope things will get better here. Next season :(
All above is my personal opinion.
Thanks,
Andy_S
by Andy_S on Dec 15, 2009 8:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is depressing. But I’ll relegate it to the “grass is always greener” file, and not think about it. Or maybe it’s under “hindsight being 20/20.”
Building on what max creek said, hockey is so much about confidence and momentum (as we’ve seen in many a post-season), and in this case, It’s not so much about the player (except maybe Seidenberg) but the team, that causes these stat comparisons to look so pathetic.
I imagine those in Toronto were a little green when Tlusty netted that goal against the Caps Friday. the ‘hawks have probably wondered about the Ruutu trade on occasion (but they’ve got so much good to dwell on, probably only for a nano-second). And the Kings on Gleason and of course, the mother-of-all-trades for Jussi Jokinen…
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
Williams is not just playing on a good line, he is playing on a line with Anze Kopitar. For those of you not familiar with West Conf players, Anze is 4th in overall points and is one of the top offensive producers in the West.
Seids and Babs were mistakes, but at the end of the day I don’t think any of it would matter. This team has no “gel.” It may be because we have too many veteran voices in the locker room, the old too many cheifs not enough warriors syndrome (no offense to my native american friends intended).
Still don't think not signing Babs was a mistake...
…I kinda feel that his attitude would be bad for just about ANY team. He’s got a bomb of a shot – and I feel that he would make this bad team worse – although better than A Ward has played. But who saw that coming (besides Paladin)? The KHL is a much different league than the NHL, so it’s an apples to oranges comparison as to how he would’ve played this season. He was either awesome or terrible. Would’ve liked Seidenberg back though…
Still feel like Williams was the proper time to make that trade. I was impatient with the injuries as well – always seemed to miss more than he played.
His attitude was always an issue, and you have to wonder how he would have responded to the adversity of a season like this for sure.
I agree on Williams a hundred fold. He may have the tools, but man you never knew game to game when he would break again!
by wylde4canes on Dec 15, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
His “attitude” was only ever brought up by Rutherford… Noone else ever mentioned anything other than great things about Babchuk including the coaches and players. Rutherford had a personal vendetta against him because he didn’t want to play in the AHL and would rather have just played in Russia (mostly because Russian players feel the KHL is actually better than the AHL).
Hopefully Rutherford has been humbled by making such a bad decision and Babchuk will be back next year.
I don’t think Babchuk was ever outwardly negative or a distraction for his team. However, he clearly had some growing up to do (refusing to report to Albany) and is now suffering the consequences of it (not having arbitration rights). Is JR still mad? Yeah probably. Should he be? Eh, probably not. Those hard feelings got in the way of negotiations IMO.
However, I don’t think Babchuk would have been the make or break addition for the team this year.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
I would say failure to report to your ahl assignment is an attitude problem. If The franchise thought he would be better developed playing in the K, then they have the option of loaning him there. The fact he has bolted twice to the KHL and failed to report to the A says he has an attitude problem.
by wylde4canes on Dec 15, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
No kidding.
I believe a manager of any kind can hold it against an employee that doesn’t want to do as he is told.
by Iggy Reilly on Dec 15, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
I will say it one last time, I don’t understand why people have a problem comprehending it.
Russian players like developing in the KHL, they think it is a higher skill level than the AHL and feel that playing in the AHL would be a negative step in their developement.
From every report I ever read from the coaches, players, media, ect. EVERYONE except for Rutherford, Babchuk was a stand-up young guy who was developing well and a positive aspect of our team. Forgive me if I just do not follow what JR says blindly, he can be wrong some times as seen in our team makeup this year.
Look at the minutes that Mo gave him last year. As the season went on his minutes went up. As his minutes went up, he began scoring. He did make defensive mistakes, but at his age that has to be expected. This was on a defensive corps much more effective than this year’s.
And while the medical situation in the KHL may be a little suspect, the players do make more money. While American players are brought up with the fact that if you play in the NHL with a two way contract you will make significantly less money when playing in the NHL, I cant help but feel that many of the players who prefer the KHL do so based on the wages per game. And they happen to play against some of the NHL’s best players from the last decade. And they are closer to home in a culture they understand. Once the players likely to be in the AHL for two or more years figure out that there is another way to mature in to an NHL caliber player while making more money, the AHL will be in a bind.
It doesn’t matter how he felt about the AHL. He could have thought it was the 7th ring of you know where for all I care. He was assigned there by his job and should have gone no matter how he felt about it. We all do things that we don’t want to do, but that we have to do. Babchuk should not be an exception. By not reporting, he made a mistake that he’s now paying the consequences for.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
It was a costly mistake but I would still rather see him around here scoring goals and making our dismal powerplay better than being punished for past actions. I’m in to winning and developing an annual playoff contending team not revenge. Like it or not he was a big reason for our success in the second half of last year when we relied on him heavily as a PP quarterback.
I am not convinced that he would be helping us that much...
…with all due respect. He was never consistent & has not proven that he could be a consistent goal scorer. One or 2 good runs with goals clumped together is not indicative of future play. Yeah, he’s young & it would be nice to have a D scorer with that potential, but JR’s mandate last year was to get TOUGHER on D. “Tough on D” is not a label that gets hung on Babs all that often. I agree with JR still on not signing him – not tough on D, inconsistent – not worth the pay he wanted. Maybe at a lower price – or an incentive filled contract (if they are still allowed to do that).
Babchuk would have added to other teams scoring short handed, fumbling feet and no speed eventually spells disaster.. when asked to do a job , you do it , no questions asked. Brindy was a healthy scratch, he is the captain.. no questions I will do what is asked..we all like to watch a winner and be fans of a winner but his attitude would eventually be more of a detriment than anything. Enjoy your time in Russia we will work around you.
and what you fail to comprehend is that the KHL is VERY different from the North American game. It is much easier for the offensive minded (i.e. babchuck) to thrive on the larger ice surface. So his time there does very little to help him develop. Second thing you fail to comprehend is that as an employee of the Carolina Hurricanes, whether he prefers to develop here, there or Tahiti makes no difference. It is his job to report where they tell him to report.
I could care less about JR’s appraisal of Babchuck, I make my own based on the fact that when it does not go his way, he bails on his contractual obligations.
Excellent point about KHL v. AHL play.
The issue of him not reporting was a couple years ago. I think that’s water under the bridge.
But when JR got a whiff of Babs/agent going to play hardball for more salary than JR thought a half season of good play was worth he moved on.
If what JussiJ says is true that Babs admitted to JR he made a mistake, than I wouldn’t be surprised or disappointed to see him back.
by drifterscape on Dec 15, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I know it’s different. I never said that I thought it was a good idea for him to do that. I am just saying that I do not think because he did not report to the AHL means he has a bad attitude. I think that is just a common thing for a Russian born player to do.
I expect to see Babs back next year, if only for the last year of his rights belonging to the Canes. I think he is too good of an offensive asset for the Canes to simply pass up on.
I still blame Rutherford
He should have worked harder to keep at least Dennis Seidenberg. He and Corvo played great together. Although Joe has played a lot of minutes this year, I just don’t see that sparkle in his eye so to speak when he played with Dennis last year. :(
Damnit! My time machine broke…. I was going to go back in time and stop those guys from leaving…. or stop JR from sending them away….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Dec 15, 2009 9:50 AM EST reply actions
That sorta sums everything up.
Nice cheery article, Bob.
It’s really sad when they put the plus/minus leaders up on the Jumbotron and it’s a zero or negative numbers.
I sure didn’t like the Williams for Cole deal at all. I don’t think anybody had any doubts that when/if J. Willy got healthy he’d be a contibuting member of any team. I imagine he is loving life and playing with Kopitar.
We have some good things going on….I think…
A
The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
here is some positive in the other direction
dont forget about the guys who are so much better now that they are with us!
Post Hoc Ergo Procter Hoc -- Babchuk and Seidenberg
Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Latin for “after this, therefore because (on account) of this”, is a logical fallacy (of the questionable cause variety) which states, “Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one.” It is often shortened to simply post hoc and is also sometimes referred to as false cause, coincidental correlation or correlation not causation. It is subtly different from the fallacy cum hoc ergo propter hoc, in which the chronological ordering of a correlation is insignificant.
While, it is an over-statement on my part to make a point, and although I strongly advocated the Hurricanes making enough compromises to keep Babchuk in particular, I don’t think the absence of Seidenberg or Babchuk played as much a role in the Hurricanes demise as some other factors. At the time, I thought Aaron Ward would be an improvement defensively over Seidenberg because I saw how the physical teams manhandled the Hurricanes during the playoffs. I realize no defensemen is perfect, but Seidenberg made some very critical mental errors during the playoffs.
The presence of Aaron Ward on the ice has been a tremendous burden on the team. In my view, it is less an issue of Seidenberg being the best defenseman on the planet, than the fact that Aaron Ward was atrocious.
Clearly, the lack of an offensively effective defenseman with a rocket for a shot has hurt the Hurricanes’ power play. Although opinions are tremendously varied about Babchuk as a defenseman, I think his absence has been felt. Even so, the collapse of the Hurricanes doesn’t seem to me to rest on the differential between Alberts play and Babchuk’s play.
Eaves at $500,000 a year is a bargain; but Eaves at $1,500,000.00 a year is untenable; and I don’t see Eaves’ absence as having any impact on the team’s overall play.
With the power of hindsight, as far as I am concerned the most pertinent negative factors that caused the Hurricanes to implode are: (1) Aaron Ward’s dismal play led to far too many goals, penalties, and loss of momentum; (2) Brind’Amour is done as a top 9 player and his play on the top 9 lines with far too many minutes on he ice killed the team’s flow and confidence, particularly Samsonov’s self-confidence, (3) the power play has been and continues to be wretched; (4) Cam Ward, Staal, Cole, and Pitkanen had early season injuries and Ruutu had injuries and a suspension, and now Corvo has a serious injury; (5) Walker and LaRose were fighting injuries and couldn’t score goals; and (6) Wallin was too slow-footed and non-physical to get top four minutes under Maurice’s/Francis’ defensive style of play; (7) as a result and in combination with 1 – 6, the team stopped skating and stopped believing in themselves.
In short, as far as I am concerned , the Hurricanes go where they are for reasons other than the failure to sign Babchuk and Seidenberg. The quickest and most feasible path this season back to being a team that can win close games is to fix the power play.
Fixing the power play is not rocket science: put natural scorers on the first unit, move the puck with authority, take shots on goal, and crash the net. Given the abject failure of the power play thus far, and assuming Tlusty is playing; but Tlusty, Ruutu, Sutter, Jokinen, and PItkanen on the first unit and keep them on the first unit. Let them sort things out and get time working as a unit. Yes, it means some key veterans are coming in as the second unit; but these key veterans have already had plenty of time to show what they can do and we see the results.
I don’t think that Bob Wedgie (is that the correct pronunciation?) was trying to say that this year is this bad because of Eaves et al (LOOK! LATIN!!). There are a dozen things wrong with this team that go beyond losing those three, and abramsdoug your post addresses that.
During the playoffs last year there seemed to be a consensus that teams had figured out how to stop Babchuk’s torrid play in the spring…pressure him when he has the puck and he turns it over. I don’t know if he would have been able to adapt to that this year, but he disappeared in the playoffs and I don’t think we’re worse without him. Just my opinion, tho.
Another nice post, btw :)
Even if Babchuk was broken down by players putting pressure on him during the Powerplay, his presence alone drew the attention of every opposing player and created wide open opportunities for everyone else. If two of the opposing players on the ice are focused on shutting down Babs then there should be two of our guys wide open.
Babs will be back next season, count on it. Our team failing horribly probably only compounds those odds too, JR will swallow his pride and realize some times it is about the team succeeding and not personal feelings. The last exchange between Babchuk and JR that I am aware of was Babs firing his old agent, apoligizing to JR, asking for a spot back on the team, and JR telling him they had already spent the internal budget.
“Semper ubi sub ubi”
I think the list of failure goes far beyond that one.
JR’s arrogance in building this team is my target numero uno. I think the list you made was more of an aggrevating (in many, many ways!!) set of things. Rod’s been done for awhile now, bringing in Yelle, even as cheap as he is was stupid. The single most critical failure was losing speed. This team is nothing without speed. By relying on veterans that have lost that, they lost everything. The limited success the are having now is due in part to healthy skaters and younger faster skaters stepping up.
My opiony anywho.
A
The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
Leighton to Philly
Michael Leighton has been claimed by Philadelphia Flyers – according to the Canes Twitter account.
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
Guess we're stuck
With Ward and Leighton time has come and gone for both. Funny how I haven’t even heard that they’ve cleared waivers.
A TRUE CANIAC......YES I AM........
by canescup on Dec 15, 2009 12:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Nevermind.
A TRUE CANIAC......YES I AM........
by canescup on Dec 15, 2009 12:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
A. Ward cleared waivers
A. Ward cleared waivers. It’s great for everybody concerned, including Leighton, that Leighton is now claimed by Philadelphia. Now if A. Ward could find another team.
Maybe on re-entry waivers?
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
Wouldn’t be surprised. Wonder when that will be. For $1.25 mil he might do somebody some good. Bet he never saw this coming when he was at Fenway Park last summer the day they announced the location for the Winter Classic.
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 15, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
And I certainly didn’t see this coming on July 24th when he was traded here.
And in an effort to be fair, check out this stat from NHL.com:
Leads the Hurricanes with 59 blocked shots this season… Was tied for 23rd in the NHL in that category through games of 12/11
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
Practice tweets
While we’re looking at twitter feeds, Gleason sat out practice today (again) but Samsonov was back. As ice_chip said regarding Sutter’s line: Sutter, TKO and a forward to be named later.
Wonder if Gleason had some plastic surgery Sunday (hope so – sooner is better I believe). Also wonder whether he’ll be back tomorrow night to take on the grudge match against Dallas . I’m not sure what I’d hope for there. But with the big plastic visor, he should be pretty safe if Morrow or Ott decide they want a reprise. Not sure Timmo would want to be perceived as hiding behind that though.
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
Don’t think there’s any doubt that Timmo will be on the ice tomorrow.
In a side note, Mrs Gillimus and I went to the season ticket holders event last night. She wanted her Jussi jersey signed, and AWard was at the same table. He was, in her words, “sullen.” Feel bad for the guy on a personal level, but as a Canes fan get him out.
Doesn’t shock me about A.Ward. This has to be a serious blow to a guy’s ego and that man has quite the ego.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
Bigger they are the harder they fall….wonder what happens henceforth to the Aaron Ward show on 99.9 the Fan.
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 15, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
LTD posted some photos in the fanshots (las a link to her Flickr site). AWard signing the “Jussi is SOOOOO Sexy” banner was a little poignant.
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 15, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know about the plastic surgery. I’d be surprised if a) he cared enough to go get it done and b) if the doctors would OK surgery on Sunday and playing on Wednesday.
And I think that’s why he didn’t want to wear the visor in the first place-it’s a sign of weakness in his mind. If someone challenges him or goes after his teammates, I’d bet my entire Christmas budget on him stepping up to fight. That’s just the way Timmo is.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
Just figured that he would need some repair beyond what ever they did with the staple gun in the Ottawa first aid room. It’s a rather important part of the face functionally and maybe those muscles need to be reconnected a little more elegantly.
According to Chip, no decision yet about whether he plays tomorrow night. I can’t imagine Tim missing it. They’d need a tranquilizer dart set on “elephant” to keep him away. As for the face-shield….?
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 15, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
From Branecky’s piece just now, quoting Maurice on Gleason:
"[Tim Gleason] took a pretty good shot there and we want to make sure he’s all clear before he goes," said coach Paul Maurice. "We’ll see how he feels tomorrow……We’ve got make a good call based on the information in part that he supplies to us," continued Maurice. "Unless it’s a severed aorta … then he’ll just want to play five-on-five."
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 15, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
It would take a lot for him to sit out, especially against Dallas (I think he’s got some unfinished business with that team).
He may very well need additional surgery, but I don’t see him doing it purely for vanity’s sake.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
maybe re-constructive surgery (not plastic) would have been a more apt term for what is required when you take a puck off an Ovechkin slapshot to the lip….
Agreed, vanity is not in the Gleason vocabulary.
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 15, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
No way those three would make a difference. Williams SUCKS period.
A TRUE CANIAC......YES I AM........
by canescup on Dec 15, 2009 2:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Every time I see you guys call him Timmo, I think of Flyers D Kimmo Timonen who has gone by that nickname for years.
Maybe by this time next year we can call him Captain Timmo, and then you won’t be confused….?
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 15, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
Ward to Chitown
This works for me. Maybe the Cam Barker salary dump is still possible. I would give him for free minus our half of his salary during reentry. By the way: Kopitar has been in a serious slump over the past 12 to 14 games. He scored his 1st in 12 over the weekend. Let’s all move on from the past. Get the Rats up here, trade for picks and maybe a sleeper and rebuild this baby. Also: don’t forget to move Maurice to a consultant position.
by Caniac233 on Dec 15, 2009 12:54 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Erik Cole needs to shoot more..
He definitely does! It’s driving me crazy that we aren’t taking shots! It seems like we are passing the puck entirely too many times when we could just take the shot. I’m all about passing when you need to, but if we don’t shoot we can’t score.. And dump in after dump in…either carry it in, or try to at least aim for the net when you have to dump it in-what’s the worst that can happen? Especially since most of the time on the dump in we don’t seem to recover possession of the puck, we may as well try to get one by the goalie while we’re at it. Cole, Brind A’mour, and A. Ward are my favorites, and I hate to see them getting dumped ON! Come on ’Canes!! SHOOT THE PUCK!
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