Acquisition Of Jiri Tlusty: More To It Than What’s Been Said
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 3:29 AM EST
173 comments
The Carolina Hurricanes cannot hit the reset button on their 2009-10 season, but perhaps their newest player can get a reboot on his career.
Jiri Tlusty, who was acquired from Toronto Thursday for 2009 first-round pick Philippe Paradis, knows the pressures of playing in Toronto as well as nearly anyone.
As a rookie in 2007, he found himself in the middle of a media maelstrom over some racy photos that accidentally made their way on to the Web. The Toronto tabloids had a field day, splashing some of the pictures on their front pages. He never really outran those 200-point headlines in Toronto. In coming to Carolina, he will not only get the chance to shake away his rough introduction to life in the NHL, but will likely be afforded more of a chance than he ever received with the Maple Leafs.
With four days off between games, many thought Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford would be wheeling and dealing to try to shake up his team, be it for the future or the present. What no one expected was for Rutherford to deal the player he selected in the first round less than six months ago for an unproven — albeit talented and promising — 21-year-old former 13th overall pick.
Tlusty has played parts of three seasons with the Maple Leafs, but has spent most of his time with the AHL’s Toronto Marlies. The Czech-born forward is not an unknown to the Hurricanes — coach Paul Maurice was the bench boss with the Leafs when the teenager played 58 games in the NHL in 2007-08, registering 10 goals and six assists in less than 11 minutes a night. As for Paradis, we hardly knew ya — he was in Raleigh for prospect conditioning camp this summer and gone just a few months after joining the organization.
Both Rutherford and Toronto GM Brian Burke gave their respective reasons for the move, but in both cases there is much more than meets the ear.
Burke told the Toronto Sun that Tlusty was unable to perform despite repeated chances at the NHL level, while Rutherford said acquiring him gave the team a prospect further along in his development and closer to contributing.
Rutherford has, at times, shown an impatience with the development of prospects. But not this time. It's clear this move is about one — or more — of three things:
- Carolina realized they missed the mark with Paradis and wanted to cut their losses before his value was diminished.
- Rutherford has had his eye on Tlusty for some time and, with Paradis struggling with Shawinigan, saw an opportunity to get a player he coveted. Look no further than the acquisitions of Justin Williams and Tim Gleason as examples of Rutherford targeting a player and, eventually, getting him.
- This is the start of something bigger.
As for Burke, it's tough to understand how he could claim Tlusty was given a fair shake in Toronto. Yes, he got a 58-game showcasing in 2007-08. But, as mentioned earlier, he was just a teen and not afforded much ice time. Since then, Tlusty's chances have been limited. Last year he played just 14 games, nine of which came before Burke joined the Leafs. In a five-game January recall, Tlusty had four assists — including three Jan. 15 6-4 Toronto win at the RBC Center — in around 13 minutes of ice time. This year he played two games the end of October, going pointless in about 12 minutes a night. That's seven games Burke saw Tlusty in the Leafs blue and white.
With the Marlies, Tlusty has been dominant at times, scoring 43 goals and 60 assists in 105 AHL games. Want more proof? He was the AHL’s player of the month last February, registering a staggering 12 goals and 11 assists in just 11 games, including this five-goal effort:
But with Phil Kessel in the fold — at the cost of first-round picks the next two years, with next year’s looking like a top-three choice — Burke has little use for a skilled forward who doesn't bring the pugnacious style he prefers. Does Paradis provide that? Time will tell. Paradis can certainly be characterized as a project, probably closer to five years from getting an NHL shot than one or two. More than anything, this is about Burke restocking his cupboards with young talent that doesn't need to be paid (Tlusty will be an RFA at season’s end), something the team is lacking because of the Kessel deal and pre-Burke wasting of draft picks. Paradis also adds size, which Burke loves and he's sorely lacking up front on his current roster that sports its share of sub-six foot players.
For his part, Tlusty isn't undersized — the Hurricanes list him at 6 feet, 209 pounds, roughly the same size as Tuomo Ruutu — but he definitely is more of a skill player than Paradis, who was projected as a third-line, gritty forward heading into last year's draft. Tlusty, as Rutherford said, has the skill set to play among the top-six.
For now, Tlusty is expected to join the AHL’s River Rats. But with Rutherford searching for deals that can help reshape his team going forward, Tlusty’s chance should come sooner rather than later.
Picture that: a chance at redeeming yourself.
* * * * *
Trade Me Toronto .... PLEASE!
Since 2000, the Leafs have dealt away five of their seven first-round picks (only the last two, 2008’s Luke Schenn and 2009’s Nazim Kadri, have survived), with the Leafs coming out on the wrong side of all five.
- 2000: Brad Boyes, 24th overall — The Leafs dealt Boyes, Alyn McCauley and a first-round pick (2003, became Boston defenseman Mark Stuart) for Owen Nolan. Nolan played just 83 games in two seasons with the Leafs, getting just 26 goals and 34 assists. Boyes, now with St. Louis, had a combined 76 goals and 132 points the past two seasons.
- 2001: Carlo Colaiacovo, 17th overall — The Leafs gave up on the injury-proned defenseman just more than a year ago, sending him and Alexander Steen (more on him in a second) to St. Louis for Lee Stempniak. Colaiacovo has been much improved in St. Louis, getting five goals and 33 assists in 79 games since the deal. Stempniak has 16 goals and 26 assists in 87 games.
- 2002: Alexander Steen, 24th overall — Steen hasn't thrived in St. Louis, but when you couple him with Colaiacovo, it's another clear loss for the Leafs. Steen has seven goals and 19 assists in 72 games with the Blues.
- 2005: Tuukka Rask, 21st overall — Rask was traded to Boston at the following year’s draft for Andrew Raycroft. Rask has become the clear successor to TIm Thomas in Beantown (he is 7-2-2 with an impressive 2.02 goals-against average and .930 save percentage this season). Raycroft fizzled out in Toronto, then Colorado, and is now the backup in Vancouver.
- 2006: Jiri Tlusty, 13th overall — Traded Dec. 3, 2009, to Carolina for Philippe Paradis.
* 2003 first was part of the Boyes deal; 2004 first was part of a package that sent to the Rangers for Brian Leetch; 2007 first was part of a package sent to San Jose for Vesa Toskala and Mark Bell
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It’s interesting how so many prospects either do poorly or aren’t given a fair chance in Toronto and thrive elsewhere. It will be interesting to see if Tlusty can be an impact player away from the bright and scrutinizing light s of Toronto.
greaticepectations.blogspot.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Dec 4, 2009 3:45 AM EST reply actions
Hoping to be Hossa Like
We need some euro flash…for the future. Hoefully this is a good move and we will get to see Jiri, Zach, and Drayson up sooner than later.
Makes sense to me
Toronto traded two of their first round picks to Boston, so they need to compensate for that by getting players of Paradis age.
As far as Canes go, Tlusty may be ready next year (at least more ready than our other prospects) thus making the rebuilding easier. The only problem is that Mo is the wrong coach for dealing with young players. It was, of course, him, who played him on 4th line in Toronto. His numbers in AHL are decent enough, this has to translate into NHL sooner or later.
I do like this trade, I did not follow Paradis much, but he was not expected to be a first rounder, for him we get a more skilled player with decent size.
What the Trade Says to Me
Jim Rutherford is both direct and subtle. When he says he is committed to transitioning the Hurricanes to a younger set of players, he means it. When he says he has never been as disappointed in the performance of any team as he is with the present Carolina Hurricanes, he is being open and candid.
I didn’t mind the Paradis pick due to his long term potential, although I had lobbied for Zach Budish — knee injury notwithstanding. I continue to hope the Hurricanes will use this rebuilding time to get the rights to Budish. Given the choice of adding Paradis then or trading for Tlusky, I would have taken Tlusky because I would know what I was getting. Paradis is a diamond in the rough. If he develops to his full potential, he will be a Ruutu-like player with a hugely powerful shot. Tlusky has all the skill sets for an NHL power forward, and is ready to play in the NHL this year. He is also a natural scorer with size and speed. If he can play on Staal’s line as the scoring power forward, it would be a tremendous help to the team. Additionally, if the Hurricanes can obtain Taylor Hall for that line, suddenly Staal is one a line with big wings who can score and who can also bang around the net.
There is a clear message to the veterans with the trade for Tlusky. It’s not merely writing on the wall, it is a neon billboard; and the message says in flashing lights: those veteran players who are under-performing have put their NHL careers in jeopardy. In short:, t’s house-cleaning time for high-paid veterans with low productivity and a low fan excitement level.
Remember the margarine commercial that said, “it’s not nice to fool Mother Nature”? The by-line of this story could be: “It’s not nice to aggravate your team’s veteran loyal General Manager.” I view Jim Rutherford as a patient and quietly determined man. Some veterans have made a critical mistake in testing both his patience and his resolve.
Tlusty with two t's
he’s skilled yes but he’s not ready for the NHL.. if he were you better believe he would have made our team this fall (see: matt stajan, rickard wallin & the rest of our marginal nhlers).. he’s shown promise of NHL level skill set but he’s certainly not there yet, he’s closer to being ready than paradis is yes but he hasn’t progressed much since we drafted him, hopefully you have better luck with him
Leafs to Keep:
^ 6 F- Kessel, Grabovski, Hagman, Ponikarovski \/ 6 F- Kulemin, Orr
D - Beach, Komi, Finger, White, Schenn, Gunnarsson G - Gustavsson
Do with the rest what you will, give them to the -coyotes- poor
by AkiSchennberg on Dec 8, 2009 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
What happened to getting bigger?
I Tlusty is listed about the same size as Ruutu, but in the scouting reports I’ve seen I’ve no seen any mention made of him being a banger or a hitter. I thought the plan was, both long term and short term, to get bigger and stronger? This move seems counter to it. I’m not that terribly upset. I’d prefer a more skilled team. There’s a reason I watch the blackhawks a lot and it’s not just because I was born in central Illinois.
I’m not down on this guy, on the opposite, I’m looking forward to him. A point per game player with a depleted Marlie team can’t be that bad. I’ll be interested to see how he does in Albany with some talent around him.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Plus there’s still plenty of big from last year’s draft.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
Bigger by Degrees
At 6’ 209 lbs, Tlusky is one of the Hurricanes’ larger forwards; so assuming that LaRose, 5’ 8" 165 lbs and/or Samsonov, 5’8" 175 lbs, are no longer on the team — via trade or waivers, the Hurricanes are getting bigger, faster, and more physical. Still, it’s obvious the Hurricanes need a power forward the size of a Greyhound bus, with a tough, physical streak. Does Ruutu have a younger brother or a cousin 6’ 4" 240 lbs?
I’m not denying his size. He’s not described anywhere that I read as a physical player.
Vasicek was listed as 6’5" and 214, but he didn’t hit. LaRose at 5’8" and 165 hits harder and more than many players with size, or did until this season.
Size is a measurement, physicality is a style of play. Size helps physicality, but it’s not always a must have.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
I think JR adressed your concern in one of his interviews. He said that size and physicality is useless if the team cannot score goals.
by Killswitch on Dec 4, 2009 2:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
to add, JRs major concern during teh offseason was that the team was worn out physically going into the ECFs against the Pens. He wanted to add size to offset the punishment that comes with playoff runs. There are no playoff runs for teams that cant put the puck in the net so that physicality that comes with size isnt needed.
Great write up Cory – you know your stuff, bro. Thanks for the inside take.
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
the first piece
of the puzzle that JR is trying to fit together. Tlusty gives him a ton of flexibility to replenish the Rats if a forward is called up, bring him up to the Canes if a forward is traded, or have an attractive piece to trade. Although it stings to give up our #1 pick, Paradis was at least 2 years away from being ready for the NHL and Tlusty could lace em up tomorrow for the Canes if necessary. Stay tuned…
For my money, it doesn’t sting if you trade a #27 pick for a #13 pick. Not to mention Paradis was a stretch at 27. Plus, Paradis was one of those high up-side likely bust players.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Cane's
Can’t say much about this deal/ maybe it is the start of something good though. I mean things can’t get much worse now can they.
robert
Could have been worse. Maybe: “There’s more to Tlusty than meets the eye.” (sorry – it is so hard resist these comments). You can ban me for a week I guess.
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
I had to change it … that’s what I get for finishing an article after 3 a.m.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
I saw that posting time. Eegads.
You changed it from what? ( I have several more ideas but I’m trying to behave this morning)
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
Why? Most people start turning over a new leaf AFTER Dec.31
As it’s only Dec. 4th, you still have 4 weeks.
Wait, are you trying to be good for Santa? Are you trying to be real good to get that “special present” under the tree?
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
Up at Leafs’ log PPP they have several links about this deal, buried in a bullet point at the bottom of this piece entitled “”http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2009/12/4/1185108/i-need-a-cigarette" target="new">I need a Cigarette"
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
once more that would be:
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
After reading your previous posts
I’d say you do…..
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
But seriously
I hope the guy’s highly-publicized teenage antics will go away, for his sake. Sounds like he’s much more talented than that anecdote for his primary Wikipedia claim-to-fame . In contrast, if you search for a Google image of Philippe Paradis, three of the first 5 photos were taken at the Canes Prospect camp in July by the very gifted LTD (who I must add, celebrates her birthday today!) and were used to headline stories here at Canes Country. (try it yourself)
Let’s hope a year from now there’s been a transformation for Jiri, and that LTD’s good eye and sharp lens and the Canes Country writers can do the same thing for this kid’s web-rep. It sounds like he deserves it.
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
speaking of NEXT YEAR
this shot is AWESOME
th article from mirtle is about the canada worl juniors,
but the picture is awesome.
http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/12/2/1182606/canada-names-world-junior-camp
JR needs to be at that tournament with the entire scouting department.
Good catch on the no Paradis, btw.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
funny, b/c I remember how pissed Burke was when LA took Brayden Schenn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDkvuuBtf8M&feature=player_embedded
I think he only took Kadri b/c Ottawa wanted him and he wanted to turn the knife in Brian Murray:
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2009/6/29/929004/brian-burke-at-the-2009-nhl-draft
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno, to me it still boils down to a wasted first round pick, again.
Plus, I don’t see this as addressing an organizational need in either our big club or the farm system. I agree with Abrams that what we need is a hulking power forward who can bang bodies and clear space.
I also disagree with the assessment that we need more skilled players, to fix our offense. I think we have lots of skilled guys, the issue is that there isn’t enough space and time for them to do what they need to do. What we need are guys who will park in front of the net and screen, guys who sit outside the crease and eat chops to the back while waiting to pick up rebounds. Guys who can control the game better in the corners and along the boards. We need guys who can skate into the zone without being bumped off the puck, so that the skill guys can find a piece of open ice to make their play from.
I also think that we need to be looking at PMD’s again, unless Corvo is coming back. Rodney should always be a guy getting limited minutes, hes a specialist. That leaves only Joni as a pure PMD. I also worry about the D in general moving forward. Corvo, A Ward, and Wallin are all potentially gone at the end of the year. That is half the blue line. who in the system is ready to eat those kind of minutes? Carson? Bellemore? McBain? Perhaps Casey Borer gets healthy,or we start back to the on again phase of our on again off again with Babs, I dunno.
All I do know is that Tlusty does not help with any of those. He may be a good player, he may contribute greatly, but I don’t think he adresses our primary concerns. I aint saying JR should fix this thing in one fell swoop, but it would be nice to see him put first things first.
His addition, IMO, lessens the chance of one of the UFA forwards coming back. For the sake or argument … if Sutter, Boychuk, Tlusty replace Cullen, Whitney, Walker, that’s a lot of coin available to add a forward via free agency, if needed.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
That’s an interesting though. Combined those guys make 8.85 mil. Sutter, Boychuk and Tlusty should make a combined 3 million. A Ward, Corvo, and Wallin make a combined 6.975 and will be replaced by Rodney and McBain making 2 million.
Total thats 15.825 million being replaced by 5 million. Wallin can stay at 1 million per year (a.k.a. The Glen Wesley Special), and that brings the total up to 6 million and a savings of 9.825 million.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
I was figuring only two rookie defensemen on the team next year. I’m considering Rodney a rookie no matter his age and experience. I think three first time NHL defensemen limits how much any of the new defensemen can progress.
My 2 cents on that.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
I’d vote Carson ahead of McBain … it’s give Jamie the chance to be the No. 1 in Albany, and Carson is def. ready.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, plus I would love to see McBain get EVERY chance to develop before hitting the bigs so we can get the most bang out of him. I think if developed right, he could be a key piece for years to come.
The reason I suggested McBain is because he is a puck mover, which the team will need when/if Corvo leaves and he’s got more upside than the other two IMO. You make a good point about Carson being ready and McBain getting the chance to be the #1 in Albany (or perhaps Charlotte next year).
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
But if the Rats are any good they will be making plenty more soon enough. So you can’t go out and spend big unless it’s a short term deal.
Carolina Hurricanes...2011 Stanley Cup Champions
by drifterscape on Dec 4, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
They won’t for a while, and when they do they’ll be RFAs. So long as JR (because he will be the GM then) doesn’t screw up and not get them qualifying offers on time this team should have a reasonable payroll for a while, and would be able to add a top talent free agent.
Not sure if they will do it or if they should. Honestly who knows what free agent this team will need next season or the season after. Who has any idea how the young players will pan out or what wholes will be left in the team.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Adding the Skilled Power Forward
Following Cory’s thought of saving the money from Cullen, Whitney, Walker, remember that Florida seems determined to trade Nathan Horton who is a highly skilled big forward and who is also young. Horton has a pretty long-term contract.
you forgot that he’s an underachiever and overpaid. ;)
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
UnderAchievers
Most teams don’t knowingly trade overachievers. The Hurricanes have a history of taking players who were felt to be underachievers and working with them. Ruutu, Jokinen, Samsonov, and Whitney (when he was waived) were all at one point or another described as underachievers. Horton is definitely overpaid for his present performance. When Horton focuses and plays with fire, he is amazing. There are not many highly skilled, tough 6’4" 230 lb NHL forwards; and of few that exist, most teams won’t willingly or knowingly give up a superstar if they can help it. The Hurricanes forte is taking players who have not been nurtured and helping them achieve.
Skilled guys can beat a defender 1 on 1, I don’t recall one player on this team doing that this year besides maybe cullen.
by Killswitch on Dec 4, 2009 2:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You are absolutely right. I was coached in basketball that it was called taking the ball coast to coast. In every contact sport, football, basketball, hockey, lacrosse, soccer, etc., the highly skilled players can take the ball or puck coast to coast and score. Cullen this year has taken the puck coast to coast. I thought Jokinen also took a puck coast to coast during a power play when he got a great pass from Pitkanen. Sutter also has gone coast to coast. Other than that, it hasn’t happened.
In the new NHL, teams have to be able to take it to the net. Check out Jordan Staal’s move last night. He owned a defender and the goalie.
Samsonov can skate coast-to-coast-to-coast and back again.
Carolina Hurricanes...2011 Stanley Cup Champions
I would say pure skaters can beat a defender one one one, but being a good skater does not make you a skill guy. Hedican comes to mind as a guy who could outskate anyone but had hands like concrete. Besides, Coast to Coast is not what we need. What we need is prolonged offensive zone pressure. It isn’t that we aren’t getting in to the zone, it is that we are not staying there long enough to make our chances count. Instead we are in just long enough to put it on the opposing goalies crest and skate back out.
I am thinking you are right, too. I go back to the Little Feat song that says, “If I had to choose between love and money, I’m not fool, I’d choose both.” The point is very well-taken about the lack of sustained pressure and presence in the offensive zone. The spark Sutter has given to the team with his one on one play is also important.
btw, exchanged e-mail with Jesse Eisenberg, the media relations guy with the Rats, and Tlusty did not make it to Albany for the the morning skate and he wasn’t sure if he’d play tonight. I’m going to try and catch up with Jeff Daniels tomorrow (once he’s seen Jiri on the ice) to get his opinion on him with the Rats and what he’s seen of him with the Marlies (this and last year) and with the Leafs (when JD was still with the Canes as an assistant).
Just a travel thing, i assume. Jesse mentioned calling JD tomorrow after the skate b/c he will have seen/talked to Jiri by then. So I don’t think they expect any funny business.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
cool, thanks for being on top of this stuff as always. BTW Are you still around ATC? If so, maybe I can buy you a beer down at Tyler’s as a thanks for all you do, one day.
Yeah … I’m right above Tyler’s, actually.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
maybe we can meet up for the next Canes Corner they do here in Raleigh.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
New rumor!! The Carolina Hurricanes have traded GM JIm Rutherford and coach Paul Maurice to an LA team for a second round draft pick!!
Eat your heart out Eklund.
A
The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
Yes it’s a crock, i’m just chomping at the bit and hoping the team does something today to start dumping salaryand dead weight or at least try and put together a team that will play watchable hockey.
A
The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
That's funny ^
As much as I’d like to see something done right now for this team, I think the best return we’re going to get it to wait until the deadline. Cullen, Corvo, and Whitney can all be moved for good return then. Cole could be moved at the draft (not saying he will, just that he can be). Moving a piece right now won’t bring the return back that it can in a few months, and it’s not like this season is salvagable. There’s no use screwing over the future to move up from #30 to #28 this year IMO.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
C-
You keep pushing Cullen as being moved. Why? In my mind, he’s the one we keep. Versatile forward, face-off % just under 50% this season, speedy, and I don’t see him asking for huge raises. He’s been there, done that, and it burned him.
That said, if Chicago is willing to let go of some of their players, it’ll be interesting.
Go Canes!
other than the raises part, that is why you see him out the door, you gotta give something to get something, and he is one of our best bargaining chips. Am I high on Cullen, you bet, do I think he is one of our best chances at grabbing something good in return, you better believe it.
I wonder if Cullen is one of the players Rutherford was calling a core player who only would be moved if there were a special deal and a special reason to move. I could see him as being a player that Rutherford would reluctantly move if he could get a younger and equally talented player in return. Other than a hulking beast forward, the Hurricanes seem to be in good shape as far as forwards go.
I dunno A Dog, howabout a scoring forward? Seems we a little shy on them…
A
The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
I think it just seems that way. The scoring forwards ( Whiney, Staal, Ruu, and scecondary guys like Cullen and Jokinen) are being neutralized because the opposition does not have to worry about garbage goals, because we have poor net presnce, and because we don’t have the kind of forwards playing in the top 6 to pull the puck out of the scrum and get it to the scoring forwards. Also, confidence is at a low, and I think scoring at the NHL level is as much about confidence as it is skill.
Scoring forwards:
As presently constituted, it seems unfortunately that some of the forwards are in that slump where they couldn’t hit the ocean with a rock. With the new Albany kids and Tlusty, I am cautiously optimistic that Sutter, Staal, Ruutu, Jokinen, Boychuk, Hall, Tlusty, and Bowman (and perhaps Cullen) will be scoring machines.
“Hall”? A little optomistic, or is that a peesamisstic view of this season?
A
The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
What else do we really have to look forward to? The only real thing about our team that gets me real excited anymore is the fact that if we continue to suck this bad we will pick up a future superstar in the draft.
don;t get to pumped, remember yesterday’s move was only necessary because this organization has trouble at the draft table.
I’m sure they would take Seguin because they are suckers (really an understatement) for homegrown talent. Both players are pretty evenly matched, Hall has more speed while Seguin has a better shot.
Can’t really go wrong, however personally I’d take Hall as he has had a extra year in the minors and has been highly scrutinized as the #1 prospect for years while Seguin has improved amazingly in one year and could possibly still have room to grow but has been less pressured as a top candidate. Reportedly the pressure of being the #1 rated prospect in the last Central Scouting report has effected his game negatively over the past few weeks. Is quite similar to the Tavares/Duchene situation.
You’re right they probably could screw it up and not take the superstar, but 2nd or 3rd best is still pretty damn good.
An Optimist or a Pessimist or Self-Delusion
I can’t tell if I am an optimist, a pessimist, or just in a frenetic state of self-delusion due to the poor performance of the Hurricanes (or perhaps some combination of all of the above). I suspect Los Vegas has a betting line on whether the Hurricanes get Hall. Really, Hall, Seguin, or Kabanov would all upgrade the team to an amazing degree.
See I am drinking your kool aid on that one bro. I think with one or two tweeks this team takes on a different dynamic and establishes and identity. Yout put in two larger bodied forward in our top 6 who can play the kind of role a Tomas Holmstrom does in Detriot, or a Byfuglin in Chicago and the teams can start to utilize the skill that is already there.
Filatov as a Trade
What do you think about Filatov as a scoring forward?
I would never underestimate the power of a high dollar offer from another team, especially since Cullen already bolted for it once with the Rangers. Unfortunately we are stacked at center with more centers waiting in the pipeline. I agree he is one of our best players during this slump year but unfortunately that means he probably has the best value and could be our best trading chip for a long term solution to a position we are thin at (Defense anybody??).
You have to give up good players to get back good players, we aren’t going to trade away Larose and Wallin for a top-4 defenseman.
Cam Barker. He will be traded to clear space before next season and they need a #2 center like Cullen as theirs will be injured likely for the rest of the season.
Signed for 3 years, young, offensive, an underperforming third overall draft pick by the Blackhawks in 2003. That’s definitely the kind of trade I’d be willing to give up Cullen for.
Would love to have Cam Barker, but he’ll take more than Cullen to get out of Chicago. Cullen and a pick should get it done, but I don’t know what pick. Also, Chicago can wait until the deadline, so that would be the time to do it.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
word is that Sopel is the odd man out in Chi town and not Barker. Spector is saying the word is most who have asked about Sopel are wanting Chicago to sweeten any deals by throwing in a pick as well.
I don’t like Sopel’s deal. It’s not too bad (3 years @ 2.5, 2.5, 2), and it runs through 2010-11, but he’s too old, for my money, for a re-building team.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
I am not that interested either. My point was only that Chicago is planning on using Sopel, if they need to clear cap space, as their trade bait. However, I am not as high on Barker as others are. I would like to see Byfuglin if we are shopping out of Chicago. He has a certain mean-ness to him that I admire!
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8470834
for those not familiar with him ( btw I know I killed his name twice, but it is a tough one)
Dustin is the prototypical Greyhound bus that Abramsdoug mentions!
Dustin is a beast and is very high on my ever-lengthening list of Greyhound bus forwards. Check out Bryan Bickell as well. He has a tough (mean) streak a mile wide and is a mountain of a man.
Bickell Videos
Here are a couple links:
http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8471254
Also Bryan Bickell searched upon youtube. The link is really long and I can’t figure out how to embed the hyperlink into the post.
Bickell
Here’s a link to some stories on Bickell:
He is likely to be a victim of the Chicago cap issues. He is being brought up and sent down to the AHL affiliate like a yo-yo for cap reasons.
I feel like if we picked up him we would have to get rid of Cole. Cole fills the same role but worse in my opinion and they are both possible 1st-2nd line wingers. Cole, Ruutu, and Buff would be too many guys trying to fill the same role.
I’d rather have a sniper like Versteeg. I can’t think of anyone on our team I would consider a sniper, maybe Ruutu/Cullen (and before this season Staal), but not any real impressive ones.
Granted if we dumped Cole I’d love to have Byfuglien.
I personally don’t put Cole and Ruu into the same mold as Buf. Cole and Ruu are expected to be score sheet contributors. Buf is expected to screen, be in the corners and on the boards, and to bang bang bang. He does add some secondary, at best, scoring but not at the same level as you would expect of Cole and Ruu.
Granted, Cole and Ruu fill that void as best they can on our squad, but I think it could work.
Assume a Cullen Rosey and a 2nd for Buf and Sopel (salary dump for Chi), these lines are not bad
Staal – Cole -Whits
Sutter – Buf – Ruu
Jokinen – Sammy -Walker
Yelle -Roddy – Tommy K
On Cullen being traded
Cullen is 33, and reasonably priced. I don’t anticipate this team being competitive next year (and I don’t think JR did either even before this season started). So that means two years before the Canes can compete, at which time Cullen will be 35. Add to it that by then you’ll have Staal, Sutter, and Jokinen as the three centers and it doesn’t look like there is room for Cullen on the roster.
That being said, I love Cullen, and if the team could compete next year without moving him I’d be all in favor of keeping him. I just don’t see that happening. If Anaheim gets things going and aren’t trying to move Sake Koivu at the deadline then Cullen will be the top center available. The GMs are already talking about this draft being weak, and if that’s the thinking Cullen (as well as Whitney and Corvo) could yield first round picks or prospects ready to play in the NHL soon.
When I look at the return, and who is on the roster now (not to mention Dalpe, who may also be a center, but likely a RW) it just makes the best sense for the long term to trade Cullen and part ways.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Didn't factor age
C-
I see your argument…I didn’t factor age. Heck, he’s a Cullen, I thought they didn’t age? (j/k)
Go Canes!
Matt does have a vampirian widow’s peak.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Booooooo
Just boo. boo boo boo boo. Any reference to Twilight should be an instant lifetime ban. booooooo.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Dec 4, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Any thoughts on whom Jim Rutherford will keep of the UFA forwards Cullen and Whitney? Any thoughts on whether Cole, LaRose, Samsonov will be kept or traded?
Whitney can stay if it’s on a one-year low cost deal, although I don’t know if he will. Pittsburgh could be a great fit for him. Look at what Crosby did for Bill Guerrin. Not to knock that guy or anything, but if Crosby can do that for Guerrin, what can he do for Whitney?
Corvo – Traded. Brings too much back at the deadline. Will get a good contract from someone else that doesn’t make sense for the Canes to match while rebuilding.
Cullen – See above, but I think will get moved at the deadline and not brought back.
Cole – I can see Cole getting moved at the draft. He’ll be on a one-year deal then. A GM will take a chance. Chicago or Detroit could be suitors. Philly too.
LaRose and Samsonov likely stay because the return won’t be worth shipping then out (likely a similar player but with a longer contract). Samsonov may be upping his value enough right now that he may be tradeable, but I don’t know about it yet.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Thanks. Great points. With the Tlusty trade, I wondered if trading Cole was more likely. With all these trades in the works, Cullen, Corvo, Whitney, Cole, or some combination, there should be some good players coming back or the trades won’t be made. I am not busting LaRose’s chops and love his hustle and attitude; but at his salary, he might be moved as a component of another trade — like the Eaves trade or was that a nightmare and not a trade.
I’m still curious if because of this move if a top six forward will be moved shortly. This deal may be a set up to move Whitney right now. Not sure to who, but Tlusty could fill that LW slot now and Boychuk could continue to develop down in Albany.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
no denying that there is a huge glut of forwards.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno. Either way, Boychuck and Bowman both should eb up next year, I am afraid if we leave them down to long they will “spoil on the vine”
Next year there will be plenty of spots. Cullen, Whitney, Walker and Conboy will no longer be under contract. Samsonov, Cole, and LaRose will be on the last year of their deals and potentially tradeable. Space next year for these guys is not an issue.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Just got back from practice — no Leighton. Ward practiced for about half, then went in and they had the equipment manager guy in goalie gear for the rest of the practice.
How did Jokinen seem to be skating? I suspect the forward who gets healthy scratched will be feeling somewhat vulnerable and nervous about his future with the Hurricanes.
Because the forwards have clearly been the problem...
Shouldn’t JR be trying to terrify the D corp, in particular A " I start fights and then whine when I get my ass kicked " Ward?
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Dec 4, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
with just 6 d men, hard to get too “terrifying” on them. the boys in Albany are just not ready. they are certainly not dominating at that level. and with no cap space, trades are tough. I think you are stuck with what you see for awhile.
GM of CanesCountry.com
Nothing an axe....
….or a " bizarre gardening accident " can’t fix.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Dec 4, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
I thought he (jussi) looked strong. He tossed a puck over the glass to some kids – seemed comfortable. He wasn’t last out by any means though.
Longer practice than I’ve seen in a while. Ran past 12:20, when Staal, Gleason, Tommy K were still banging pucks. Brindy lingered a while too. Alberts was sitting by the bench having a long friendly talk with Tom Rowe when they shoo’ed us out.
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
If you don’t get the Canes Country twitter feed, Harwood tweeted some potential lines. It looked like Cullen was back between the Finns. Walker, Yelle, Brndy on the 4th. With LaRose there and uncertainty who would sit it would be hard to call Staal’s line or Sutters line.
Here was his observation:
lines look like 12/13/26 8/15/14/36 (mix and match) 16/59/29/ 18/17//24/ we will see who sits later.
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
Aaron Ward has trade bait written all over him sweater. I think it will be later in the year; but I can’t imagine he will be kept. If they can trade Aaron Ward, he will be gone, gone, gone, I think. If not, he will not be re-signed. I suspect Rutherford is in touch with Babchuk’s new agent.
They should never have let Babchuk go.
He played great the last month of last season then looked bad in the playoffs. He was a great scoring threat from the blue line.
by CanesFanFromLI on Dec 4, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Babchuk
I know that Jim Rutherford liked Babchuk and felt the fans were way too hard on him. Rutherford faced a difficult choice. Really it was a Hobson’s choice and was a classic lose-lose scenario. Under the CBA, Babchuk had forfeited his right to arbitration. Babchuk didn’t seem to understand the CBA and was acting as if it didn’t exist. If Babchuk had not gone to Russia to play the first time, he could have gone to arbitration and cashed in on his success. When he went to Russia the first time, he lost that right.
Jim Rutherford realized he needed to follow the CBA procedure for every player because if it ignores it once, every player thereafter will feel he deserves to be the exception as well. It’s how the rule of law works. It’s also part of the inherent make up of Jim Rutherford. He is a person who really thinks about fairness and values fairness and fair dealings.
On the other hand, it was obvious to Jim Rutherford that Babchuk’s shot was a critical part of the Hurricans arsenal and would be missed. In the end, it seems inarguable in hindsight, or at least clear to me, that Babchuk’s role on power plays was critical to the team’s success — despite other flaws in Babchuk’s play and his slump during the playoffs. In the end, Babchuk was immature and hurt his own NHL career and the Hurricanes. I hope both the Hurricanes management and Babchuk’s agent can figure out they need each other.
If Babchuk was so critical to the teams success why was he a healthy scratch in both game 7s in the playoffs and 3 of four games against Pittsburgh?
Babchuk always had a shot, but he couldn’t hit the net. This meant that he was left wide open on the point on the PP to take shots because as hard and inaccurate as he shot letting him shoot often led to a clear. He scored some goals last season, especially late while the team was rolling (7 of his 19 in the last 11 games, many in garbage time). Only four of his goals were game winners, and three came late in the season. He was guarded closely on the PP from then on. Had he just not been able to get a puck on net it would of been fine, but he started turning the puck over as well.
He ended up -5 with 1 point in the playoffs.
I wouldn’t say it’s “inarguable” that his role on the power play was critical to the teams success.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
During the regular season, Babchuk got hot and during that time period when he was scoring, he was a tremendous help to the team. He flopped during the playoffs. His playoff performance was dismal; but his scoring during parts of the regular season was outstanding. Some people felt teams figured out that they needed to put pressure on Babchuk and that he was not able to skate around them.
Thank you for all that.
You left out that his shot could be so wild he hurt his own players. And didn’t mention his, uh, stay-at-home defensive style.
Carolina Hurricanes...2011 Stanley Cup Champions
You are right. He was a hazard at times to his own teammates; but every hard-shooting defenseman is a potential hazard to everybody on the ice. The very wildness of his shots helped gain space around the net. Nobody knew where his shots were going and the opposing team couldn’t turn their eyes away from Babchuk. His footwork was often dubious as well. I would point out that he often was able to use his reach to deflect passes or shots and was at times able to overcome poor skating. He definitely had more than his share of flaws. He also had a cannon of a shot, albeit perhaps a loose cannon at times.
“only four game winning goals” was third best on the team last year and he also led the defense in plus/minus. (+13) While nothing is inarguable, I think his skills were underestimated by many. Also, the team’s powerplay was 10% during the playoffs, certainly not acceptable. You can eventually teach him to fake and pass or move and get his shot off. You can not teach someone that rifle shot and how to score 16 goals from the blueline in a year. Remember, Corvo had 14 goals playing in nine more games and lots more average ice time and that is his strength.
I bet JR tries to get him back next year.
GM of CanesCountry.com
I certainly would welcome him back, if only to watch the players scatter on his backswing.
Carolina Hurricanes...2011 Stanley Cup Champions
Also, he was a young defenseman. A couple of more seasons and he likely would have been much better defensively with that rifle shot. If you look at his toi, it increased markedly under Mo.
He didn’t do well in the playoffs, but neither did Boston. It is not unusual for people to underestimate the difference in playoff hockey verse the regular season. Bringing up that he was scratched against the Penguins? DIdnt we o down in four straight? I don’t even remember us playing a decent game after the first one.
A stupid agent with a misunderstanding player running into a GM proud of his pimp hand resulted in some KHL team having Babchuk this year. I’d certainly like to see him back again.
Point out the many goals that were in garbage time. I seem to remember Babchuk scoring many important goals. “Only” four game winners? Come on. Aaron Ward and Andrew Alberts will be extremely lucky to combined for four goals TOTAL.
Alberts has only scored 2 goals in his entire NHL career…
by Andrea's evil twin on Dec 4, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Couple that with his piss poor attitude
And he can rot in Russia for all I care. He’s got a million dollar shot and a 10 cent head. Good riddance, as far as I am concerned…
What?
There are PLENTY of RFAs every offseason who get significant raises despite not being arbitration eligible. It’s not CBA procedure to refuse to negotiate past the qualifying offer….
Patrick Eaves was not eligible for arbitration and got $1.4M/yr for three years from Rutherford—significantly above his qualifying offer.
Cam Ward also got $2.666M/YR from Rutherford despite not being eligible for arbitration.
The RBC Crowd
One consideration in bringing up the new players that I don’t recall being discussed is the RBC crowd. At this point, the energy level of the crowd has been low — for obvious reasons. When Ruutu arrived at the RBC, it was magic. The same was true for when Jokinen came for his first game as a Hurricane. Sutter has felt the big love of the crowd as well. Boychuk mentioned the crowd reaction in an interview. That kind of unconditional support does bind the player and RBC crowd and helps everybody get through the bad times.
I would hate for a young, new player to face the somewhat less welcoming RBC crowd at the moment. I’d much rather his first impression be of the RBC caniacs at their best and most energetic. This season is not likely to be the last time a Hurricanes team flops. It’s the memory of the magical times and the thundering crowds that keeps us all, including players, mostly sane when all the tires go flat at the same time.
This season is not likely to be the last time a Hurricanes team flops.
Don’t count on that. We have heard that song before.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Dec 4, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
ummm I think you read him wrong, he is saying that we are going to flop again, at elast that is how I read it.
You are right I did.....
……its called "j$%king off " at work, which prevents proof reading sometimes.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Dec 4, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I just posted a link in FanShots to an article on THN about the trade.
greaticepectations.blogspot.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Dec 4, 2009 2:14 PM EST reply actions
Correct. I am absolutely positive in my own brain that at some point yet again the Hurricanes’ team will pull a gigantic, ugly, excruciating flop; and we will once again be in the throes of an unexpected, but thoroughly miserable, year.
Let me guess, Mo will be brought back for the fourth time and that will happen?
Sounds like the new Battlestar Galactica “All this has happened before and all this will happen again”
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
TAYLOR HALL
This is the guy we want #1. Lose out boys….ahem, just keep up the good work!!
It’s tough to see how trading Steen & Colaiacovo for Stempniak is a “clear loss” for the Leafs. Colaiacovo frequently injures himself and Steen doesn’t produce. Stempniak is a marginal scorer; yet is still only slightly worse than Colaiacovo and Steen put together. Isn’t it a good thing when you can have 1 player make the same contributions as 2 players would (Stemp has 12 points this season, Coloaiacovo and Steen combine to get 13 so far.)?
by Belligerent Burkie on Dec 4, 2009 4:58 PM EST reply actions
but they make less, combined, than Stempniak this season ($3.1M to $3.5M)
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 4, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
doesn’t that make sense if he can put up the same amount of points as 2 guys combined?
by Belligerent Burkie on Dec 8, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Well, one’s a d-man, first of all. Secondly, Stempniak’s been a huge disappointment for the Leafs (I think they expected the 27-goal guy, not the 15ish he’ll put up this year), whereas the Blues are pretty happy with Carlo, from what I’ve heard.
Steen, while a disappointment as a first-rounder, is still a good role player, IMO.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 9, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Those would need a bigger box than most, that’s for sure.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Dec 5, 2009 5:07 AM EST up reply actions
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