Manny Legace or Michael Leighton? Who Stays?
by Bob Wage on Dec 6, 2009 6:41 PM EST
86 comments
The Carolina Hurricanes have a tough decision to make within the next day or two. Franchise goaltender, Cam Ward, is expected to return to action Wednesday for the game against the Devils. When he is reactivated, it will give the team a total of three goalies on the roster, one too many.
So, who stays and who goes. Michael Leighton or Manny Legace?
It could be argued that Legace has been the better of the two. He certainly has the best stats. Not only is his GAA and SV% better, he has three of the team's six wins for the season, one more than even Ward has.
Legace ended up playing much more than Leighton did since coming to Raleigh. The coaching staff never did seem to have much confidence in Leighton and played him sparingly over the past two seasons while he has been Ward's backup.
When Ward was first injured the Hurricanes immediately went outside of the organization, then signed and played Legace the very first chance they could as they apparently assumed the newcomer, who had a losing record in the AHL at the time, would be better than their seldom used backup.
In Leighton's defense, he started to play better when he was given a chance and was getting into a groove before suffering a groin injury at Montreal. He's a bigger goalie and takes up more room in the net.
But there is more to this decision than stats, size of the goalie, or wins and losses. This could come down to money.
Michael Leighton has a guaranteed one way contract which pays him a total of $600,000 this year, whether he is assigned to Albany or stays in Raleigh. Manny Legace has a two-way deal which pays him $550,000 at the NHL level and $105,000 otherwise.
If the team tries to waive Leighton and send him to Albany, they still have to pay his current salary. Keep in mind, they are already paying Tim Conboy his one way deal of $500,000, which is major league money to perform for a minor league team.
If you think a bit more about this, it gets even more complicated. The plan was for Mike Murphy and Justin Peters to share the load for the River Rats, with the better goalie perhaps getting the lion's share of the work. If either Leighton or Legace get sent to Albany, Murphy would probably get shuffled to Florida, possibly altering his development.
Or, either goalie might be claimed on the waiver wire, never making it to Albany. There are teams in the league pretty desperate for affordable goaltending. Again based upon statistics and contract status, Legace would appear to be more attractive on waivers and might be more apt to be claimed, then Leighton.
Maybe the Canes want one of the goalies to be picked up on waivers and will make their decision based upon that criteria?
People seem split about what might happen. Some, like John Forlsund, think the decision is a no-brainer because of the contract differences. Forslund said on 99.9 The Fan's Aftermath with Mike Maniscalco that he felt Legace would be waived because of his contract.
Dave Droschak has a different opinion. He thinks the team has more confidence in Legace and they might keep the more experienced netminder. At this stage of the season, the Canes would only be saving about $300,000 in salary anyway. Plus, you never know how Ward will do when he returns.
Could he aggravate the injury? Could he be rusty after missing a month of game action? The team should certainly not over-play him, they should try to ease him back into the swing of things, meaning they will need the more reliable backup.
It's not an easy decision, what do you think? Should the Canes keep Michael Leighton or Manny Legace? Should they keep the tandem of Murphy and Peters in Albany or move one of them to Florida? Do you think Legace or Leighton will get picked up on waivers?
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Branecky’s TTS post this afternoon was similar to Forslund’s “all about money” take.
That should force the Canes to make a roster decision on Tuesday, when Manny Legace or Michael Leighton will find themselves as the odd man out. Despite playing very well after allowing a soft goal in the first period Saturday, Legace is probably the safer bet to be waived and subsequently reassigned due to his two-way contract, which would pay him less at the American League level. Leighton would still earn his NHL salary in Albany.
It is my very strong and less-than-humble opinion that Mo has (unprecedented) confidence in Manny as back-up and that gives Ward a chance to not be asked to play 99% of the remaining games this season. We really really need a goalie who Mo (and Ron and Tom and Tom) likes or Ward will be dead by March.
I hope Branecky and Forslund are completely mistaken. But if Harrison got called up today to replace Rodney, I really don’t get what’s going on at Edwards Mill Rd.
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
Legace
I suspect that Leighton will be waived because Maurice seems to have very little confidence in Leighton. The way Legace is playing, I would guess he could or would be claimed on waivers. It is possible that Leighton might be claimed off waivers.
Who should the Hurricanes keep as their back up?
IMO they should keep Leighton, he’s never really gotten a fair shake here. In all honesty I don’t think that is what will happen, I think Legace gets the job which may be a good thing for Leighton in the long run, I kinda feel bad for him… :(
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
Practice
I believe MLeighton hasn’t gotten a chance in games because he hasn’t earned it in practice.
I got nothing to back that up.
Just feel like if ML had impressed Barrasso or Mo or the team in practice they would have given him a better chance. His struggles in games is nothing new to them.
Manny Legace
M=More conficence
A=Allstar ability
N=Not Leighton
N=Needed experience
Y=Yesterday’s winner…what has Leighton done lately?
what has Leighton done lately?
The same can be said for any of our goalies being Manny has the most wins with 3… not necessarily a reflection of their performance, but WOW that is a scary stat.
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
I want to know what Cam Ward has done lately?
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Dec 7, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
that was my point, but quit bashing my Cam, I know where you live… ;)
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
All I know is
I’m glad I’m not JR or the coaching staff. Money or season? I agree ML really hasn’t gotten a good chance to prove his worth. Wasn’t it last season (or maybe the season before) when he was with the rats he had some amount of time without giving up a goal. Sure, it’s the AHL, but, still,…..
On the other hand, thats what backups are supposed to do, go out on the ice at a moments notice and perform.
Nope, don’t wanna make that choice.
Question...
Help me out here. I though when someone had a two-way contract, they bypassed waivers when they’re sent down, like Rodney. So wouldn’t Manny bypass as well, or am I missing something? This is just a question, I voted for Manny anyways.
I think the point is if they place Legace on waivers they hope for someone to pick him up rather than send him down, and then have to move Murphy/Peters, one less on the payroll?
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
Maybe I missed it,
but how keen is Lavi on Leighton?
Aren’t the Phillies phloundering phishing phelons phrom their goalie position?
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
? not sure, I think there is more than one team looking for a goalie about now…
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
What I was wondering is if Lavi would take Leighton
as wasn’t he the one who wanted Leighton as the backup goalie?
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
I’m not really a baseball fan, but I think Phillies are in pretty good shape…they made it to the World Series this year and won the year before that.
by nomadologist on Dec 6, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think there might be an age (or years in league) restriction on two-way contracts. But I don’t have the CBA in front of me right now…
13.4 Exempt Players. Players who meet the criteria set forth below are exempt from Regular and Re-Entry-Waivers:
Code:
GOALIES SKATERS
Years from Years from
Signing NHL Games Signing NHL Games
Age –NHL Played –NHL Played
18 6 80 5 160
19 5 80 4 160
20 4 80 3 160
21 4 60 3 80
22 4 60 3 70
23 3 60 3 60
24 2 60 2 60
25+ 1 - 1 -
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
Since the comments don’t accommodate formatting in tables (it just doesn’t believe you mean to put all those spaces between words), I interpret this to day that players over 25 yrs old need waivers to move up and down? Dwyer is 26, and Rodney is 25 1/2. They have a few NHL games on their records. They have 2-way contracts.Important: neither required waivers. I’m not sure how the other columns work above. Cory – help!
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
Goalies, that's a little better
age _________ years from signing____________ Games played
18_________________ 6 _______________________ 80
19_________________ 5 _______________________ 80
20 _________________ 4 _______________________ 80
21 __________________ 4________________________ 60
22_________________ 4 _________________________ 60
23 _________________ 3 ________________________ 60
24 _________________ 2 _________________________60
25+ _________________ 1_________________________ -
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
Much better. – are the #’s way different for skaters? I guess neither Dwyer or Rodney have that many games…
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
Exempt Skaters according to the CBA
18____________5_________160
19____________4_________160
20____________3_________160
21____________3_________80
22____________3_________70
23____________3_________60
24____________2_________60
25+___________1_________——
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
I’m of the understanding that both Legace and Leighton have to pass through waivers when they are sent down or recalled from the minors, but I don’t know if that qualification is based on age or games served or combination. The one-way versus two-way contract status affects how they’re paid once they’re there, but not whether or not they have to pass through waivers.
SISU
by LTD on Dec 6, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
How long is the "waiver period"?
Is that like 24 hours? If they need to move Cam off LTIR by Wednesday, when do they need to make the call for waivers for Leighton or Legace to get them moved to Albany and keep the roster under 23 players? ( side note: My friends who don’t follow the Canes closely are so confused by how similar those 2 names are).
Also – related to Salary Cap conversations, with one of our highest plaid players on LTIR (Corvo) we have some room technically fro some $500,000 players, if the cash is there in the interim – but again, sometimes this gets too confusing for me.
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 6, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
1. Both of these players would have to clear waivers in order to be sent to Albany.
2. Other teams have 24 hours to claim the player if they want him.
This is very similar to the situation with Stephane Yelle earlier this season. Being put on waivers does not necessarily mean the player has to be sent, it’s the beginning process.
There are other options, like re-entry waivers, but we will talk about that later.
GM of CanesCountry.com
also, the two way contract has nothing to do with the waiver process. As shown above, it has to do with the age and number of games the player has played in.
Younger players can get sent up and down several times without clearing waivers. Older players have the chance to get picked up by other teams. Leighton has already been through the waiver process several times and claimed by different teams before the Canes got him from Montreal.
GM of CanesCountry.com
Leighton’s contract ends this season. Given the situation for Leighton in Carolina, he is best served by either being traded or waived. He is likely not going to be re-signed by the Hurricanes.
couldn’t the same be said for Manny? (thanks for the update on Bayda on the other thread)
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 6, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Leights still has a chance to become the #1 goalie
look at Thomas and where he was at Leighton’s age.
Manny is looking for a team to be with for a while and leave more or less on his terms.
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
It’s just a guess on my part; but it looks to me that the Hurricanes prefer to have Legace’s experience for another year until they feel Peters or Murphy will be able to handle the back-up role. If the Hurricanes’ coaches love Leighton and want to build up his confidence, they have an odd way of showing their love.
Thanks, boss – I was trying to search through articles you wrote a year ago when Lavi was here and playing Leighton more than he ever saw with Mo. At one point after only 4 or 5 games in the season, it seems Leights was considered the hotter goalie (btwn him and Ward). It was a very strange moment indeed.
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
by hockeymomof2 on Dec 6, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks guys, I understand a bit better now. I still say send Leighton down and risk still paying him. Hopefully someone’ll take interest.
I'm really torn about this
On one hand Leighton deserves his turn. Also, I think a good deal of his stiffness in goal is not being aloowed to play as often as he should and over playing Cam.
On the other hand, we have Legacy who is far more confidence in goal and has that “been there/done that” (though I think the state of the Canes even tests that postulate) attitude.
Can we keep them both and get rid of Mo?
When all else fails, read the instruction manual.
The sad thing is
Cam’s stats aren’t much better than Legace’s. In fact, they are pretty much a wash (with Legace having a better win percentage…). What this should tell you is that it doesn’t matter who we have in net. Our defense sucks like George Michael in a public restroom. We couldn’t win consistently with Brodeur and Luongo as our tandem…
Let me preface this by saying that due to our cap position and the need to be concerned about the budget, Legace will unfortunately be the odd man out and get waived.
Ideally however (and for the sake of argument), I think you have to look at this in terms of “what is your long-term plan for Cam’s back-up?” If you think Leighton is your guy (which I’d say most likely not), keep him.
However, if Leighton isn’t in your plans after this year, I think you drop him down (maybe he gets picked up) and give Legace a reasonable amount of starts. Hopefully he continues to showcase himself as a solid backup and you are able to get anything of value for him at the trade deadline. At that point, you can bring up Leighton and have him finish out the season. It just seems like a waste for a guy who might have some value to just to be tossed aside.
Leighton makes $600K per year and Legace makes $500K per year. It would be cheaper (and better) to keep Legace. But Legace is on a 2 way, so it may be that they can’t move Leighton down, due to the fact that Leighton is on a 1 way and nobody in their right mind would pick him up.
In a perfect world, it is a no-brainer that they would simply waive Leighton and keep Legace. But that may not be possible due to the fact that nobody will take Leighton, and therefore, they are forced to send Legace down.
It’s a difficult situation for sure. I think that given this organization’s philosophy, where you have an undisputed franchise goaltender who is going to be start every game possible, the better backup situation is a veteran go-to who is comfortable in the backup role and can be counted on to come in sporadically and perform. I think in that scenario Legace’s a better fit, absent the cap/salary considerations.
SISU
Either one comes off the books if sent to Albany, so I don’t see how the Cap issue is relevant. (like East pointed out above). It does affect cash flow in that Leighton makes 5X as much in Albany than Manny would.
On the flip side of the equation, I think if Manny gives us a better shot at winning games (with his experience and with the likelihood that they won’t ride Cam into the dirt) that I think there might be a few more tickets (and beer) sold to make some of that up..eg $300,000 (prorating for 3/4 of remaining season) at $50/ticket = 6000 tickets. That’s only about 200 more per game for the remaining home games…Maybe I’m over thinking but i think a cost-benefit analysis is relevant.
Either way, if neither gets picked up (I did think Vancouver might give it some thought), I really feel for Murphy and Peters….
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
I tend to think the Hurricanes are grooming Peters and Murphy to be the back-up goalie for Cam Ward. Peters had a great game this afternoon against W-B Scranton. It will be interesting to see what happens. I am guessing Legace sticks with the Hurricanes for a season or two.
Definitely Murphy and Peters are in the running to replace Leighton – next year was the likely plan with Leighton’s contract expiring. The introduction of Legace was a real wrench in the works. But it may well work out well…He’s not going to last forever either.
Hurricanes Hockey:
Never for the faint of heart.
Nor for the weak of stomach.
Maybe I am off a bit here, but...
Are either of those 2 guys really the answer? I rather think that Ward would play better with an older veteran behind him. Someone like Legace can still teach him things. And, the older veteran guy can push him a bit (for starts, if not the job). But, I don’t see where a young nobody AHL’er can have any effect on Cam’s play whatsoever. Plus, Mo will never play such a young, unproven guy much anyway.
I know Cam wants to be an “iron-man” like Marty Brodeur, but I just don’t think he’s got what it takes to shoulder that kind of load. Thus, we need a backup who can take 18-20 games, and still give us a chance to win in most of them. I don’t think Murphy or Peters can do that. (Just my humble opinion…)
I think that if I were Murphy or Peters I would pray to be traded to a team where they might get a real shot at being the #1 guy…. I’m not sure if Peters will ever get there… but Murphy has the talent… would be a shame if he were Cams backup for the next 15 years (or however long that contract extension is)
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Dec 7, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe that’s the truth in the garbage. If you compare Peters, Murphy and Leights. None are going to command much, leights will command several hundred grand. So I would guesstimate as a trade deal Leights, as always, is the odd man out. I tyhink Legace has the most value mostly due to exper., but the 2 way don’t hurt either. Though I can’t fathom the how’s or why’s this org. go by. I also can’t believe they will harm the developement of either Peters or Murphy.
That tlusty trade still has that odd duck smell about it. Now there is a goalie issue. The D has serious issues as well as our forwards not doing much scoring. Think maybe package A. WArd with one of the goalies is worth a draft pick or a 4th line D guy, maybe a box of Cracker Jacks?
It really seems like JR has to widdle something down and get some breathing room from the cap. It seems like offing A. WArd and then solving the goalie issue would be the best plan A.
The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
I was talking about in the future…. But in the now works too… Good point.
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Dec 7, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions
Great photo
Great photo LTD.
I bet P.Kessel’s mom would like it too. With Legace for perspective, makes little Phil look like Bertuzzi.
Hrm...
I really hate to see Leighton go, but Manny when I watch him in net plays a great deal better. Despite a few soft goals on occasion that go through…
I am hoping to see how Cam does when he comes back though.
Legace stays for the rest of the season.
Leighton has been a huge let down ever since the Canes signed him to a two year 1.8 millon dollar deal a season after he had a great season in the AHL. Legace is a proven vet that is way cheaper then the under-performing Leighton as well. Legace stays and Leighton gets put on waivers for another team to claim which somebody will and they can have him and his contract.
Murphy is going to be the backup next season anyway and if not him then Peters.
Go Canes can I a guy get a winning streak this season plz.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 6, 2009 9:33 PM EST reply actions
and his top corner coverage (o9h wait thats not possible)
so basically if a good shooter can find the corner above his blocker, theres nothing he can do
He “fixes” his corners by skating out…. Same thing Irbe used to do…..
The times this doesn’t work are the times when he doesn’t have the correct angle to the shooter….
or when the Defensive skaters are out of position…. which is all the time….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Dec 7, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that last thing is a killer for us.
Manny doesn’t have the Detroit Red Wings defense in front of him here.
yeah….. maybe we can work on that trade…. LOL….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Dec 7, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
It’s the truth…. The goaltender takes the shooter and the d-men cut off the pass…. it’s so fundamental that even Tripp Tracy knows it…..
Except our d-men are always eating a sandwich somewhere else…..
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Dec 7, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Seemingly that pass can be made every time.
We have to be the league’s worse in preventing the 2-on-1 breakaway pass. We seem to be too deep, no matter who is covering, so it seems like a system thing.
System and/or plain old inability. Like Mateos said, it’s kind of fundamental. I guess we are lucky they know which goalie to shoot at.
A
The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
Thoughts anyone?
I know Cam is close to being cleared to play, but I have concerns. It appears that we have a habit of rushing players back too quickly and I dont want this to happen to our “franchise” goalie. The season is already crap, and Cam coming back serves no purpose if he is not truly ready. And since his return was pushed back from the Vancouver game originally (if I remember right), to the Devils game, seems to me another week to 10 days woudn’t hurt to make sure he was 100%, because after all, he will play 99% of the games remaining this season. And as all athletes know, if you are injured even slightly, you are likely to compensate for the injury and possibly injure something else.
This season would be really tough if I didn't drink the misery away.
I'd prolong his "recovery" as long as possible.
We don’t want to upset our draft position.
by East of Here on Dec 6, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Did you check Wards stats before he got hurt? If you want to protect the draft position I say bring him back as soon as possible….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Dec 7, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks to Bob for clearing up the 2-way contract confusion, it was my understanding that a player having a 2-way deal meant he could go from AHL to NHL and back without passing through waivers, I had no idea that experience was the determining factor there.
Also, going back to when Cam first got hurt and the team immediately signed Turtle, he played the first 2 or 3 games, showing that Mo apparently had no confidence in Leights, but when he finally got his shot he strained his groin against the Habs, I remember someone mentioning that it was an injury that he had been nursing since before Cam was hurt.
My mind may be making things up, but if this is true it puts an entirely different spin on things, it shows that they were keeping Leights out of the lineup to give him time to mend, not because they didn’t have confidence in him.
That said, as much as I like Leights, he gets extremely rusty when lacking starts, and his positioning is horrible at times. Turtle has been solid, and he seems to be much more stable with his mechanics than Leights, especially now that he isn’t rushing out to play every puck that comes across the blue line.
In my opinion....
With regards to the future I think Manny is the more valuable trade bait (teams might want a veteran back up, or even starter in Washingtons case, whilst making a run at the cup come the trade deadline), therefore we should not risk him being picked up and us getting nothing back in return… we might be able to get a semi-decent prospect or some kind of draft pick.
I don’t see many takers for Leights if we put him on waivers and even if he does its not like we’re losing anything because the coaching staff were so obviously reluctant to play him anyway.
Then come next year we can sign a decent backup goalie who the coaches will believe in so as not to affect Peters/Murphy’s development in the A.
I really like Michael Leighton. He’s probably the most friendly guy on the team….
but Manny has played better than both Leighton and Ward (before he was injured)…. Not that he has been great either…. I’m just sayin’…. I hate it for Leighton… but Manny has to stay. (and Start until Cam can play better than he was…)
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Dec 7, 2009 9:05 AM EST reply actions
Well another “kick a mitsubishi” day is here. Maybe today is the day which will live in infamy and the mother of all trades. Eric Staal and A. Ward for Jordan Staal.
Yup you heard it here first kids, Eklunds got nothing on me boys and girls!! I just add in a line of crap about a source from pucks a tanny, New Mexico or something and I’m there. Man I wany Eklunds job, this is fun!!
A
The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
E. Staal and A. Ward fot J. Staal (E6 and a quarter)
PIttsburgh is high on Aaron Ward for his goal scoring acumen and ability to read the play. Sources say Eric Staal has already ok’ed this trade and is willing to use his brothers old jerseys.
My sources also say the Anaheim Ducks are looking to add a large physical presnce in the form of Danny Briere, to put them over the hump and in the playoffs.
I am also hearing that Mats Sundin is coming out retirement to joining the Peter Forsberg Maple Leaf Oiler Habs. No terms have been discussed but it is believed that he is willing to com back for a decent hair piece and some meatballs.
In my next blog I will mention 5 large market teams and speculate that Vinny Lecavelier will sign with all of them at once…….
Ek is a joke.
Manny
Even if Manny won’t be staying, the Canes need to make Ward take lessons from him on how to play the 1-on-1 shootout.
Report: Leighton Put on Waivers
http://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie
Bob McKenzie is reporting Leighton was put on waivers.
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