Canes Country Exit Analysis: Anton Babchuk
by Scott Cason on Jun 21, 2009 3:06 PM EDT
72 comments
For Anton Babchuk, the 2008-2009 season was the best of times, and it was the worst of times. Back in the dark days of the 2006-2007 season, Babs was ordered to report to Albany for a conditioning stint. He refused. His next stop was the Russian Superliga. When he got there, Anton had this to say in an interview with the Siberian Geraldo Rivera, Oleg Malitsky:
Oleg: Leaving North America and returning to the Super League – it’s a serious step. Was it difficult to make this decision?
Anton: No it wasn’t difficult. Simply, at my age, I need to play, not ride around with the farm club.
You see, Anton was just not gonna be part of some bush league AHL road trip posse. (full interview here)
Anton Babchuk Stuff
GP G A P +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG GTG SO PCT
2008 - Anton Babchuk
72
16
19
35
13
16
9
0
4
1
127
12.6
Despite this demonstrated propensity for petulance, JR took a flyer on re-signing the blueliner who put together a solid season with Avangard Omsk in Siberia very near Kazakhstan…is very nice.
The Good:
Babchuk had a great regular season in his return engagement in the sightless eye. Anton outscored both Chad LaRose and Joni Pitkanen this season, and those 35 points earned him a top-40 point total finish among league defensemen. A year away didn’t reduce the awesome power of his Flak 88 slap shot, and his nine power play goals reflect his value as a weapon with the man-advantage. I also like the way he mixed up howitzer shots and back door pinches on the PP this year.
The Bad:
When it mattered most in the playoffs, Anton Babchuk became Manute Bolchuk. A big ole 6’5" traffic cone of indecisiveness. It seemed as if the game suddenly moved to fast for him. The minute somebody penetrated his happy place, he’d spit up soft passes along the boards, misfire with his slapper or lose the puck in his feet. So has Babchuk learned from this experience, or is he doomed to go Jake Delhomme when the going gets tough?
The Money:
As a restricted free agent, the Canes have first dibs on re-signing or trading Babchuk. If I read the regs correctly, the Canes can extend Babchuk a minimum offer of $1,050,000, or they can sweeten the deal in the hope of keeping him. History shows that Anton tends to hold himself in higher esteem than the rest of the hockey world, so who knows how salary negotiations will go with him. Of course he can reject any offer and stay an asset in the Canes system…probably back in Siberia. And another team can tender an offer which the Canes can match or take a 3rd round compensation draft pick. Not sure if even the Rangers would take a Dustin Penner-type risk on a mercurial player like Babchuk.
This is one of the tougher calls for JR and team. Do they think Babchuk is still a player on the rise? Does he have the mental toughness to perform in the most demanding situations? It’s one thing to launch blueline bombs on a power play in Atlanta. It’s another to try and control the point at full strength - in the conference finals - with Gino Malkin closing on you at flank speed.
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"is he doomed to go Jake Delhomme when the going gets tough? "
I dunno…does that imply he’ll end up being the leader of several playoff runs and win more games than he loses you?
Erik Cole would certainly have been a better example.
As for the compensation if he leaves, it depends on how big the offer is:
If his minimum is indeed more than $1 mil, he’d net at least a 2nd-rounder. If somebody decided to go crazy and offer him $2+, it’d be a 1+3.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
Delhomme is a joke.
He’d be a great back-up for any team. As a starter though….. eh. It doesn’t help that he throws a fit like Danica Patrick every time something doesn’t go his way.
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
Yeah...
He’s such a joke he’s got the 5th-best winning percentage of any QB in the NFL.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 21, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
What's his winning percentage in the Super Bowl?
I think your idea of several and mine are two different things. He’s actually had 2 playoff runs, which is precisely 1 more than Kerry Collins had in a Panthers uniform. Now there’s an accomplishment! Maybe if he spent less time whining to the refs and playing ball, he could actually win something besides an NFC Championship trophy. Don’t get your panties in a bundle. You’ll find I’m not as much of a pushover as some of the other more passive people on the boards.
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
So who exactly would you prefer as a non-"joke?"
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 21, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
someone who actually wins games for their team, and doesn’t " Manage " games.
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
OK...
So who won the game @SD last season? Who won the game @NO? Who won the game @GB? Who won the regular-season game vs. ARI? Who won the game vs. ATL?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 22, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m no Delhomme hater, but I think its a valid point… and also some of that “we can pick on our own… just dont let anyone else do it” humor.
Delhomme has led the Panthers on 2 great playoff runs… but has also been one major reason for our demise in two playoff games.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 21, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope you're not talking about Seattle?
Do you not think that had more to do with being down to career special-teamer Jamal Robertson as our primary running back for the last 50 minutes of the game? Or maybe you think there’s another QB who could have won a conference championship with 36 yards of rushing?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 21, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve heard you argue that before… thats fine and great and all… but he still threw REALLY BAD throws. If he was more athletic, maybe he could have run the damn ball!!
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 21, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
AND I said “ONE major reason”
meaning there were others.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 21, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Are we making excuses for losing in the playoffs 3 years ago?!?!?!? Wow, this cut runs deep!
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
No, I'm just tired of one of the best 10 QBs in the league being blamed at every opportunity.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 21, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
and its not just the playoffs… he consistantly has 2 regular season games every season where he plays VERY poor.
Like I said, I am no Delhomme hater… but you cant sit here and tell me he is in the top 5 in any one of these three needs in a football player- Skill… Talent… Athleticism.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 21, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
If you want to get technical....
He’s not even in the top 10 QBs in the league. His QB rating has never been good enough to break the 12th spot in his entire career. Winning percentage doesn’t mean anything on an individual basis, especially when your defense wins the majority of the games for you.
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
I totally agree. But Jake does have SOME good qualitys. But I fully undstand why some fans are sick of the whole damn thing. I will never understand why you would just want a “game manager”, when so much more is out there and available to your team.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 21, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea game management doesn’t mean anything if your QB can’t get the ball to one of the best receivers in the game. I feel bad for Panthers fans, they have never had a good QB. When your two best are Collins and Delhomme there are problems.
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
And Delhomme clearly can't get the ball to Smith...
He led the league in receiving yards per game by throwing it to himself.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 21, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I could throw the ball 4 yards to Smith and watch him run 45 yards after the catch,. Does that make me one of the " Top 10 " QBs in the league? Also, I like the fact that you completely ignored the fact that I stated that he was a whiner, and you had no retort. Guess you can’t find that stat on Google, huh?
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
He's a whiner?
Whiners don’t come into a press conference after a terrible game by an entire game and take all of the blame. Whiners don’t take a team down to its sixth-string running back to a conference champinship.
And if it’s all Smith, how exactly did Muhammad lead the league in yards and TDs in ’04 with Smith out of the lineup?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 22, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Because we can pay Delhomme $6 million to win more games than Marc Bulger and David Garrard do for 70% more.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 21, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right...
I’d rather have Jay Cutler or Marc Bulger since they have such good stats. Look at all the success their teams have had!
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 21, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Like the Panthers are really that much better off? They miss the playoffs every other year…
You put a guy like Marc Bulger and Jay Cutler on a Panthers team and we would be about leaps and bounds a better and I dont know how in the world you could even argue against that.
Stats and Google cant answer every question. Some answers have to come from common sense and reality.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 22, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Bulger and Cutler don't win. Period.
I guess you’d rather miss the Panthers miss the playoffs every year.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 22, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
and how good have the Rams and Broncos D’s been over the past 4-5yrs?!
come on man…REALLY?
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 22, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
couldnt come up with something smart ass to say, or any stats to google to debunk this MP?
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 23, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The Panthers haven't even been in the top half of the league three of the last five years...what's your point?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The Rams and Broncos have been horrible of D for the past few years. Their offenses have been just fine. To say that Cutler and Bulger “dont win. Period.” means nothing. Thats my point. If you cant figure that out… you might want to go to a doctor and get your head checked out.
I know your smart enough to know what I am saying… your just an argumentitive homer.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 23, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh...
And who is it exactly that led the 19 4th-quarter comebacks we’ve had since Jake became the starter after the defense put us behind?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 21, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny, then...
That there was a football reference in the post.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 22, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
references are one thing...
actually it was an analogy. I appreciate the comparison, just wish that the post wouldn’t deteriorate into a pissing contest with stats to support. Even if you are a casual Panthers fans you know about “Good Jake” and “Bad Jake”
Eugene Robinson's Take
I once heard Panthers radio commentator, Eugene Robinson, say there were two Jakes-“Safety Jake” and “Danger Jake.”
Just as with any QB...
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
2007-
Week 15: 14-27, 140 yds 1 INT
2006-
Week 9: 20-35, 201, 4 INT
Week 14: 12-25, 78, 2 fumbles.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
There is a difference in having a bad game against a good Indy D, and consistantly having two different personalities on the feild- that has lost games for you against bad defenses.
Brady has had 4 games since 2004 where he has thrown more then 2 interceptions. ONE was in the PO’s, and the Pats still won.
Jake has had 7. Two of those were in the playoffs and the Panthers lost both.
Tom Brady also throws the ball a LOT more then Jake Delhomme.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 23, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't worry about being accurate or anything...
But those games came against:
The Jets (19th in the league in defense)
The Colts (23rd in the league in defense)
The Dolphins (5th in the league defense)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
But I'm sure that the performance of those bad teams doesn't tell the story, right?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
excuse me for not being a google hound…
Indy’s D wasnt as bad as STATS say they were… they had many major injuries. Like I have said about 100 times- STATS DONT TELL THE WHOLE STORY.
I still stand by my argument that Brady dosnt have many bad games… and Jake does. You know what your getting with Brady 90% of the time. With Jake its more like 65%.
You can disagree… but there is no need to be arrogant. Some people are just not in love with the guy. Get over it and stop whining every time someone says anything negative about him.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 23, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
So, wait...
You’re arguing that because the team had major injuries, it was better?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m saying that the defense was better then it looked like on paper… yes. When they had players healthy they were a good defense.
I personally dont remember that game, so I couldnt tell you if that is the case or not… I am sure you would be glad to google it though! ;)
hell… they won the SB the next season… had an aweful D for a good part of that season too, but then had the best D in the playoffs.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 23, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
But the "Week 9" part implies...
It’s a regular season game.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 23, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
ok… so who knows…
neither one of us wants to look up to see how the defense lines up that week.
was the D in good health or not? you look it up. Im not a google fanatic. I call it like I see it. Have fun with that.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 23, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
They were without two starters...
Rob Morris (LB) and Montae Reagor (DT.) Bob Sanders also played hurt (it was his only game in a 10 week span), but well (11 tackles, 1 INT, 1 PD.) So yes, the D was relatively banged up, and Brady faced a weakened pass rush (0 sacks against an average of 1.5 for the season.)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
ok then… I Think its safe to say the Colts basically played a cover 3 for most the game since they had no real pass rush, but might have had a boost from having their leader on the field for the first time in a while.
Who knows. We are so far off topic now, I dont think it matters anymore.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 24, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I see the stats, but I still dont think you have ever heard ANY Pats fan say “I sure hope GOOD Tom” comes to play today and not BAD Tom!"
Stats dont tell every story.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 23, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
OR we just cant score till late in the game wich is usually the case for the Panthers.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 22, 2009 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Cole vs. Delhomme
I chose the Delhomme route because of the mental meltdown angle. I don’t think Erik Cole’s problems included a brain freeze.
The sliding compensation scale part of this could be interesting. If another team decides to make a play for Babchuk, they’d probably make one that the Canes would want to walk away from.
What to do, what to do, what to do.....
This was the toughest one so far. In my opinion, JR should let him walk unless we can sign him for the minimum. I’m not convinced he brings anything unique, and I can’t count how many times I groaned in the CC live-thread when he coughed up yet another turnover at the blueline (yielding a breakaway) during the playoffs. (thus, I smiled at the Delhomme analogy)
Babs seems to have a some complicated “head issues”, and if this past season didn’t set him on the right course, he needs a different brand of Voodoo than what Mo & Pals offer. As I’ve said here before, I think he’d be happier with more Russians to hang with (though I sure can’t see PIT or WAS coming through with big offers).
New subject:
Once again, I need some help here. Please, Scotty, exactly what does this phrase mean?
or the Gerbil assumes room temperatureI’m guessing a movie reference, but not my genre… (though we count 4 hamsters amongst our household).
Thanks for another great write up.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
Cute; poetic even. I’ll catch on, if slowly. Thanks for spelling it out.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Jun 21, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d give Jake Delhomme a B+ awesome QB. Should of had that superbowl ring a few years back. Damn, I hate New England just about as much as the Red Wings.
good grade for Delhomme.
He’s an average QB at best when it comes to skill/talkent/athleticisml, but his great leadership and game managment make up for that.
I think he deserves to be the starter… but I think the fans deserve to have a better back up in waiting(or at least a coach who will go with the backups they have when Jake is having one of his meltdowns, and thats NOO dig at all on Fox. I love that man).
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 21, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Babchuk gets a B from me simply because he scored a ton of goals.
As for the Rangers throwing money at him…he would get booed out of town after about two games, no matter how offensively potent he might be. Nobody hates European defensemen who don’t hit more than Rangers fans (just see how they treated Marek Malik, Michal Rozsival, Dmitri Kalinin, or Christian Backman). Besides, they’ve got some great defensive prospects coming up.
Nice write-up
I appreciate the sarcasm and wit in contrast to Bubba and Cory’s style of writing. I could live with Babchuk for anything less than 1.5 million on a one year deal. His slapper is awesome, and yes he has found nice opportunities to pinch in. Good point about lack of mental dexterity, I wonder if this will prevent him from ever being a top 4 guy? I would be fine with him playing in the third pairing and the PP and putting up 30-40 points a year. Babs needs a stay at home guy to be paired with, that being said he seemed to play the best when paired with Joni?! Come to think of it everyone was paired with Joni at one time or another during the season.
You know what? There are a lot of great players in the league that dominate the reg. season only to disappear during the playoffs. Joe Thorton comes to mind….heck until last year several members of the winged wheel had that distinction. I’ve made this point before, maybe only to myself, what Babchuk lacks can be fixed by coaching, working out, and maybe some visits to a sports psychologist; what he does have cannot be taught large frame, incredible slapper, and taste for alligator shoes.
Stay off my boy Delhomme and the Panthers, as far as Babchuk sending him packing I want to see Borer, Rodney, Carson and others finally get their shot at the roster, and we can spend that money elsewhere to resign our unrestricted free agents and later our more important restricted free agents such as Jussi.
However I would still keep him of Frank Kaberle any day.
We will see how all of this shakes out soon.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jun 22, 2009 1:19 AM EDT reply actions
Love the caption under the picture!!! LMAO!!! Chukie get’s a B from me for regular season play (not for his “cough, cough” playoff performance)
++
Didn’t see the caption until you pointed it out! Brilliant!!
I actually gave him an A- . He exceeded my expectations and showed us his potential, which could be a top 4 D-man if the right coach can get through to him. He is still young for a D-man and has huge trade potential. If JR can sign him for 1-2 years near the minimum, he could be used to acquire a nice piece to the puzzle at the trade deadline next season.
I went B as well. There’s immense potential as a PP threat (as shown this year), but even-strength — especially when things get tight, like in the playoffs — he shies away and loses confidence. He’s still young, but I think the big nut to crack is whether he can handle the pressure. I’m curious to see what Rutherford does with him.
Great job Scott.
I gave Anton a C. I felt like he had a great regular season…. to the point where (going into the playoffs) a lot of the talk was about “ya gotta watch out for that Anton Babchuck… etc…”
But… as we all know… something happened to him during the playoffs…. not sure if it was the pressure of his nerves or if his body just gave up on him…. but he was not the same player at all….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Jun 22, 2009 9:29 AM EDT reply actions
A year away didn’t reduce the awesome power of his Flak 88 slap shot,
I believe the Flak 88 was a German gun, but whatever. I give Anton a B. He showed some good offensive instincts pinching in at times and 16 goals for a D-man is pretty awesome. Though the guy did get a lot of ice time down the stretch of the regular season, I’m just not sold on Babs as a legit top 4. He needs to get better and more comfortable in the defensive zone and for crying out loud don’t be afraid to use that 6’ 5" frame to punish opposing forwards from time to time.
One of my favorite memories from 08-09 was the overtime clincher vs. PIT that put us into the playoffs. But even on that play when Babs pinched in aggressively to hit Orpik and keep the puck in the zone, if Malkin doesn’t lose the puck in Anton’s skates, then the Pens would have had a 2 on 1 going the other way.
He is great at shooting the puck. He just needs work in just about every other area of the game. I hope he gets better over the summer because a big strong defenseman on the right side is just what this team needs.
The Flak 88
A German gun with a wicked muzzle velocity and nasty striking power, but a dangerously exposed profile on the battlefield…kind of like Jake Delomme!
(Scott then goes into rope-a-dope mode in anticipation of the inevitable pummeling)
Dagummit Scott!
now we will have to endure another seemingly endless exchange between MP and PPF25! Prepare yourselves for one-sided stats and backhanded rhetoric.
Wish they could find a private chatroom so the rest of us don’t have to scroll down for pages to find somehing we care about reading.
They clearly revel in the banter. Kind of like they’re flirting.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Jun 24, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
It's really not that complicated...
If you’re going to talk shit about my quarterback for no apparent reason on a hockey site, I’ll defend him.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 24, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
“your” quarterback?! I knew you were in love with the guy!!
Sorry folks… I’m just tired of the dudes arrogant attitude. No one else around here ever seems to need to make smart ass comments to everyone and trying and make everyone look stupid.
I know Im not the only one who feels this way… I guess I am just the one who is feeding the troll for now. Like I said… sorry.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jun 24, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
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