Babchuk Wants Three Year Deal
Interesting interview with Anton Babchuk, translated by "Eggy" over at CH.com
_____
Have you really declined $1mil contract from Carolina?
Yes, i did. I think i deserve better than that. and i am ready to argue my point of view. Look at my statistics. I am 4th d-man in NHL in scored goals and best in Carolina. I am best defenseman in Carolina in "+/-". I don't know why management didn't take all this in consideration.
What if they give you 2 mil contract?
I wouldn't want to talk about numbers at the moment. I had certain wishes and my agent worked with the team. Carolina, however, had other ideas. Last week my agent is working on possible trades with other teams.
What are the potential teams where you could play?
I've heard from my agent that 7 or 8 teams were interested, including Rangers and Vancouver. I am optimistic with my future
What did Carolina said where you refused?
Quite alright. It's a business. Management wants to get the best possible player at the least possible price. Player wants to get paid as much as he can.
Do you think you'll continue your career in Russia?
Nothing is impossible, but honestly, I'd like to continue my career in NHL. I'll try to demand to have at least 3 year contract.
Why did you play so poorly early in the season and started playing much better the second half?
Lavi trusted me much less than Maurice. Maurice gave me ice time and if Lavi did the same you'd see my statistics much better earlier in the year.
((UPDATE- To clarify any possible confusion, these gray colored posts are called "Fanshots". They are not original writings, nor are they meant to be. They could be quotes, links, videos, and audio found around the net. The link to the original story is simply found by clicking the title. My opening sentence said that the article was translated by Eggy over at CH.com. In other words, the article was translated over at CH.comby Eggy. I originally thought this was pretty self explanatory, but apologize if anyone got confused))
over 2 years ago
Bob Wage
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I don’t even know where to start w/ Baby McChucky…. geez….
The interviewer should have said “don’t you think you screwed yourself when you broke your first contract?”
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Jul 13, 2009 4:39 PM EDT reply actions
I need evidence of consistency rather than 8 weeks of flash in the pan…..Huge question mark for me.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 13, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
i LOVE babchuk,
dont get me wrong
i want him back,
i think hes worth at least 1.5 for three years
but he has to talk about what went wrong in the playoffs sooner or later
I agree, but I’m not willing to throw a guy under the bus as many people seem to have done for struggling in the playoffs at the age of 25 in his first ever playoff experience.
I think this is more about his attitude and running off to Russia....
Plus, he didn’t just struggle, he flailed. Over the course of a full season teams figure out how to play you (rush you when you have the puck so you make mistakes), so Babchuk at this time represents a PP specialist with top tier shot and good upside. But his “entitled attitude” may prevent him from ever being a great player.
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 13, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know how broadly this story will get noticed, but if it gets any legs in the NHL, I can imagine an urgent phone call from Babs’ agent to Russia telling him to keep his mouth closed till he has a deal.
By the way, the link to the story in the Russian language was kinda cool. (Did anyone else look at it?)
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 13, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
“By the way, the link to the story in the Russian language was kinda cool. (Did anyone else look at it?)”
Да, я читал Статью.
by nomadologist on Jul 14, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm – does that mean you speak the language? If so, was the translation fair and accurate?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 14, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
No Cyrillic on my keyboard
but:
Ya gavaru nee pa-ruskie
Knowledge is Power!
Power Corrupts!
Study hard,
Become Evil!
which means…..?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 14, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I speak no Russian
Used to, many moons ago…..
Knowledge is Power!
Power Corrupts!
Study hard,
Become Evil!
I guess I had assumed the fences were mended over that when he was brought back last season. Maybe it is best for his career to be traded because it seems like that one mistake is going to haunt him here.
He's clearly not willing to acknowledge it as a mistake.
If he were, he’d shut his mouth, sign his deal, and leave after one year. But for some reason, even though it was us who gave him a second chance at the NHL, he thinks we owe him something.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
How about for trying to hijack the NHL CBA and its rules for achieving free agency?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't matter...
That’s all we have to offer him. He can take it or leave it, and if he’s truly worth more, he should go out and get an offer. I haven’t seen one yet.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
This is so odd to have this kind of discussion when he has no contract. Can you imagine Ruutu personally announcing his expectations and declaring who is courting him (without the agent acting as go-between, saying nothing with tired cliches)? Or if we’d had this discussion with Erik Cole around 1pm on July 1 or Rosey a couple days later when he was sitting around the living room with his fiance waiting for the Canes to call?
There is something “off” here and for me, that is the crux of the problem. It may be language or cultural issues, but he just marches to the beat of a different drum as far as how he handles his off-ice (career) decisions, and that doesn’t help my ability to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 13, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions
Cole and LaRose were not restricted free agents, and Rutherford didn’t tell either of them that they could either find someone interested in a trade or take a hike back to Russia.
you have a point on Cole and Rosey, though JR did say that the discussion with LaRose were done (later shown to be a clever ruse by JR – or at least a misunderstanding).
Still, is there any other unsigned (RFA or UFA) player out there publicly naming teams and contract terms before they’ve signed something? How do the Rangers and Vancouver react to this statement that he’s optimistic. Didn’t he just make it look like they’re his faves and they can then adjust thier offers downward? the best negotiating strategy is to keep your cards in your hand. These frank answers, without even the benefit of an agent giving him some subterfuge, strike me as very unusual in any business negotiations.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 13, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Ummm, yes he did.
Rosie is told take it or leave it
This is how JR operates. Babchuck is getting as fair a shake as he deserves. He has plenty of potential but he has showed plenty of potential as a headache to this franchise as well.
They didn’t need a trade…. and they obviously didn’t find anyone else interested….
I totally back JR on this… If Babchuck would have played by the rules then he would have arbitration rights and would be in a much better situation….
He screwed himself and still refuses to take the blame….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Jul 14, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
THIS
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t JR required to offer him at least 10% above last year’s salary? Did he do that?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 13, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions
Yes, he did.
Babchuk should have the ability to go to arbitration, but he forfeited that right when he ran to Russia in violation of a signed contract.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
i think we make a big mistake if we let babs go
He’ll go somewhere and put up big numbers at a very reasonable price. I mean jeez, how do you offer him no raise? What kinda slap in the face is that?
It's kind of like the one he gave to us when he ran off to Russia in violation of a contract he agreed to and signed.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
You keep mentioning Babchuk running off to Russia in violation of a contract. Clearly I am missing something, because Babchuk was a restricted free agent when he signed with Omsk. He did not skip out on a contract.
Babs went AWOL during the middle of the season....
He refused to take his demotion to the AHL, which was being done purely as a roster move due to the amount of injuries that we sustained that year on the blue line. Yes, he finally did report but again his attitude was detrimental to the team. Heck I LIKE Babchuk and his game, think he can be an everyday contributor from the backend, yet his talent and potential completely outshine his attitude and work ethic. Maybe he would benefit from being around some younger Russian speaking players and having a larger Russian base in the community that he plays in. I wish him the best, but think he will never be more than a 5-6 d-man and PP specialist.
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 14, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Why aren’t you guys speculating on who the Rags and Nucks could send back our way?
If he is outing them as interested. Who are the other teams as well?
Great idea!
Can we follow this question now?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 13, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought it was weird that the Rangers would be interested in him, because Rangers GM Glen Sather has stated that he wants to go with their own youth on defense, and they’ve got a billion good prospects on defense in Hartford and elsewhere: Bobby Sanguinetti, Cory Potter and Mike Sauer in Hartford; Mike del Zotto in juniors and Matt Gilroy, who they just signed out of college; one of the guys they traded Gomez for was Montreal’s top defensive prospect. They’re going to need to go with these guys, too, since they’re cheap and a lot of them are ready to make the jump. So if the Rangers end up with Babchuk, I would expect one of those guys in return, probably Sanguinetti or del Zotto.
by nomadologist on Jul 14, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Word on Del Zotto ad Sanguinetti is both aren’t living up to expectations to this point.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 14, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
We really need to sign Babs up and give him a raise. He’s got the 4th best stats in the NHL for a defenseman, what is JR thinking? It’s time to let go of grudges and do the right thing.
If teams in the NHL based their decisions on resigning players after their performances in the playoffs, there would not be a lot of players signed back in the NHL. It is common for good players to fall off in the playoffs, Look at Malkin last year, he was almost non-existance in the playoffs for the Pens. Look at Green for Washington, one of the best defenseman in the NHL, he was non-existant this year in the playoffs for Washington by his standards in the regular season. It is frustrating when players lose their way in the playoffs, but it happens to a lot of players, especially when their young and their 1st playoffs.
We are dreaming if we think we can get a top D-man for little money. Resigning Babs would probably not cost us a lot of money in the long run and he is going to just keep growing and becoming a better defenseman in the NHL. It sounds like he is more concerned about a 3 year contract for some security than he is a big paycheck IMO.
C
Hey, to be fair to JR, he seems to have not made any big missteps this off season.
We only know the deal that Babchuck says he won’t accept. We have no idea what his agent is offering as a counter offer sort of thing. It would help me out a lot in deciding whether JR is being too stubborn for his own good to know what Babchuck things he deserves.
Green put up over 70 points last year..
after signing a big contract last off-season. Yes he did struggle, but at least he was visible and was not scratched. Babs may be a one trick pony…PP specialist with good offensive instincts. Yet, his defense remains offensive. Plus, we have Corvo and Joni to move/shoot the puck. You can always find success with a forward at the point on the PP, but you can’t put a (good) forward in a defensive pairing, that is unless your name is Federov. And, we have Rodney waiting in the wings that can play a similar role as Babchuk
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 13, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The 4th-best stats? No.
He had the 4th-most goals, and more than half of those came on the PP. Were you clamoring to sign Jeff Hamilton back?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions
One Good Year !!! I Guess that makes a career NOOOOT !!!!
This is exactly what is wrong with about every professional sport today in the U.S. The nerve of Anton, give me a break 1.5 mil for 3yrs. You are out of your freaking mind. Go back to Russia, give me Hedican back as old as he is, at-least he would play for the team. This guy is a joke, went back to Russian League an gave up his arb. rights so he made his bed now he has to lay in it. YOU ARE NOT THE BEST D-MAN in Carolina b/c your not a team play ANTON; you not a team play due to your interviews an comments like the above posted. Great interview post, what a douchebag, ANTON I mean !!!
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jul 13, 2009 7:34 PM EDT reply actions
Wow.
Yes, i did. I think i deserve better than that. and i am ready to argue my point of view. Look at my statistics. I am 4th d-man in NHL in scored goals and best in Carolina. I am best defenseman in Carolina in “+/-”. I don’t know why management didn’t take all this in consideration.
I don’t know why you didn’t take THIS into consideration, Babchuk: YOU ran away to Russia. YOU forfeited your arbitration rights. This is the way the financial system works in the NHL. If you don’t like it, I’m sure they’ll take you back home.
Also, the notion that simply giving him more ice time improved his play is ridiculous. It’s just that Maurice, unlike Lavi, is willing to force forwards to cover for deficient defensemen like him.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
thats unfair, the club brought him back what he did the year before was forgotten,
now that he is wanting more, we cant just shove that in his face,
talk about his play, but let the russian league go.
imo
Sure is forgotten as far as he's concerned.
But the fact is, he shot himself in the foot when it comes to these negotiations. All we had to do was offer him a 10% raise to retain his rights. If that upset him, he should not have left (so he could take that to arbitration) or play somewhere else. That’s how every other player in the NHL has to earn their money.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 13, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
They all know the rules. They’re all making plenty of money. I would say to Babs that he needs to pay the price for a risky decision (going to Omsk), and then use the next season to prove you deserve more.
If he’s that good, in another year or so, at 27, he’ll be in his prime and he can name his price (just like Seids is trying to do). He’s not going to starve in the meantime. (after all it’s pretty cheap to live in Raleigh)
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 13, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
As my daughter calls him
“Atom Boomstick”, his attitude and me-first style will be a major issue in the locker room, especially if he wins. As for Babchuk running off to another NHL team, unless there are a lot of NHL GMs who just woke up yesterday, Babchuk’s “stunt” cost him in reliability points.
Babchuks best opportunity is to take a two contract plus the raise that JR gave him and play his heart out in the 2009-2010 & 2010-2011 seasons. THEN and only then can Babchuk negotiate from a position of strength.
Others have found out (I think Seids is the latest pupil) the $$$$$ aren’t really there in the NHL.
Knowledge is Power!
Power Corrupts!
Study hard,
Become Evil!
Here is some more of that interview:
- Would you consider continuation of your career in Russia?
—Nothing can be ruled out.. But honestly, I would like to continue his career in the NHL In doing so, I will insist that a minimum term of my future contract is three years. If I return at this time in Russia, the losers remain "Carolina"; in two years I’m 27 years old and I’ll be a full free agent. Thus, "Hurricanes" will not receive any compensation for my next move to another NHL club. Therefore, for now "Carolina"’s best option if they are not ready to raise my salary is just to trade me.
- You, like most of your colleagues did not notice the effects of the financial crisis in America?
At least in the restaurants all the time people were eating and they were full. I was surprised to read in Russian press that NHL attendance had fallen. How then could the league have beaten last year’s reord attendance? But a family trip for one game NHL is costly. Still, out of 30 teams only 3-4 – such as "Atlanta", "Florida", "Phoenix" – did not get sellouts. And there is not in financial crisis here, it depends on the geographic location of teams – it is too southern city.
— In Russia, real estate prices fell. Have apartments for rent in Carolina also gotten cheaper?
— No. I Rent a small three-room apartment with furniture and parking. I pay $ 2800 a month in rent. A couple of years ago, the same apartment rented for $ 2200. Raleigh is a small town, the price of housing rent moderate. In New York, for the same apartment would have to pay five times as much. But the discount cannot be credited to the economy.
— After a successful second half for you championship, do you hope that your statistics will interest Coaches Team Russia?
— I am already accustomed to look philosophically at these kinds of things If I am called now or in the future to play, I will be be pleased to come. And if I don’t get the call, I’ll be just as happy to go to relax. So far though, no one has contacted me. At the end of a tense for season in Carolina, I went with my girlfriend Natasha to Greece. We have started to prepare for the future potihonechku (???) season. I’m headed to the gym.
Dude seems WAY out of touch.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
What exactly is “out of touch” in that interview?
-It is in our best interest to sign him or trade him? Correct.
-NHL is doing well despite financial crisis? Correct.
-Housing is more expensive in New York than Raleigh but can still be expensive here? Correct.
-Babchuk would like to play for Russia in the Olympics? Well I guess I can only take his word on it that he would enjoy that.
- He’s trying to play like he has the upper hand and the Hurricanes have dones something wrong. They’ve offered precisely what they were required to under the CBA. It’s in our best interest to sign him for as inexpensively as we can. If he wants more, that’s too bad, he lost his chance to get it.
- There’s no financial crisis because restaurants are full? 12 teams had under 90% attendance last season, and “only 3 or 4 teams” don’t get sellouts? Raleigh is too far south to have suffered from the economic downturn? What about Charlotte? Totally insensitive for a guy making hundreds of thousands to play a game.
- Again, for a guy making the money he does to play a game, whining about three grand a month on what I’m sure is a fantastic place just doesn’t cut it for me when people are living paycheck to paycheck and suffering worse than they ever have before.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotta argue with this stuff. Anton hasn’t been defiant … he’s just saying he deserves more. He prolly does, but JR is w/in his right not to comply. That’s where we stand. On your bullet points …
• Neither has an upper hand … JR hold the cards for negotiating, Babchuk holds them for playing. JR doesn’t gain anything in this standoff, neither does Babchuk.
• He’s right … there is no crisis b/c the team has a budgeted spot for a defenseman. The economics of the U.S. have nothing to do with this. This is about the Canes having the right to offer him a certain amount while retaining his right, and Babchuk wanting more.
• I never like this argument. He is an elite athlete who deserves what he’s worth. What is that worth? That’s up for debate. But your argument makes it sound like he should play for $100K and he happy about it. A player’s window to earn is small, and he wants to earn.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 14, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
OK...
So it’s unfair that 1st-round picks are signed to entry-level deals at the league minimum? Too bad. That’s what the player’s association and the league have collectively bargained and agreed upon. Babchuk is not above the league’s financial systems, he just thinks he is. If you really think he’s not out of touch with his comments on finances, I’m glad you’ve been blessed enough to have found financial security in these tough times when millions (if not billions) are suffering around the world. And yes, he should take $100 grand and be VERY happy for it. But, fortunately for him, he has a chance to earn far more (the minimum is what, $500K?), and he’s been offered seven figures to, again, play a game. I’m terribly sorry if he has to spend $25K on a place to stay when that’s about 2% of his income. I’m sure most people would love to only spend 2% of their income on their mortgage or rent, yet all he can do is complain. Simply put, I’ve never seen a single shred of any emotion from Babchuk but entitlement. Not disappointment when he didn’t perform this season, not gratitude to JR or the team for reviving his career, not appreciation for the fan support. Last I heard, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Maybe he should try it.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I liked Babs to, but lets face it: the guy isn’t coming back. We don’t need a guy who whines about not being paid top two money when, like everyone said on here, all he is is a one trick PP pony.
I would rather pay Mathieu Schneider 1.5 to 2 mil a year than pay Babs that same amount of money. Schneider is proven, while Babs could stab Carolina in the back and run away after his paycheck back to Russia. After all the guy has done, it wouldn’t surprise me to see that happen.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
one trick pony
yep. I think once it became obvious to the entire NHL that if Babchuk gets the puck at the top of the right circle on a PP, he’s going for his signature monster slapshot-on-goal, he became pretty easy to defend. Sorry, but was there anything else he could do better than half the starting D-men in the league?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 13, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Comparing Kovalchuck to Babchuck is not a valid offensive comparison.
Kovalchuck has more in his bag of tricks offensively than a booming shot.
by Iggy Reilly on Jul 14, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
babs (apologies in advance for a ridiculously long post)
Obviously there’s a lot of hurt feelings, indignation, stubborness and vitriol (at least from a few of the posters here) involved on all sides in this situation.
Babs thinks he deserves a raise based on his performance on the ice, and he is probably right (if said performance was considered in a vacuum, which unfortunately it is not). IF he WERE eligible for arbitration you can bet he would get a fat raise, but that would be one nasty arbitration hearing, OF COURSE he gave up those arbitration rights by sulking off to Russia for a year (ironically the ice time he got playing in Russia probably helped him develop more, at least from a confidence perspective, than being the 7th or 8th d-man at the time in the NHL or a year in Albany), and now Rutherford and the Canes are using their leverage to low ball him in the interest of keeping their budget in check. As is their right, and to a point a savy business move. For the short term. But looking at the long term, should Babchuk come back into the fold and be forced to play at (what he sees at least) a low ball rate, and should he continue to develop his game on the ice, you can bet he will be in a hurry to hit the road for greener pastures as soon as possible as a free agent. There would be to much choppy water under the bridge at that point from both sides (if not already).
Plus, my take from the interview (and we should all remember that the interview was done in Russian, and context can sometimes be lost in translation, not only in the answers, but also in the questions, no matter how good the translation may be), it was not so much the low-ball $$ offer that was the problem but the fact that it was only a 1 year deal. My sense is that Babs would be willing to take a bit less money (a smaller raise) for a longer term deal (3 years). But maybe I’m missing something in translation there myself? I’m always wary of translations, especially on verbs like “ask” and “demand”.
And sure, perhaps there’s a good bit of immaturity (still) on Babchuk’s part as well – you just do not give this sort of interview in this sort of situation, unless you are Keith Primeau. Of course, he might have not even considered that this particular story would be translated for the purpose of blog conversation by Hurricanes fans. Who knows? And I’m sure he is well aware of the hard line stance and less that flattering things coming from the Cane’s end as well. Either way, not a smart move on his part. Just makes him seem impetuous.
Bottom line: Babchuck’s play on the ice this past season showed great improvement, in both zones.
While he is still prone to mistakes from time to time (who isn’t on this d-corp), and needs to work on his overall positioning to make up for his lack of foot speed, I think any neutral observer would say that his defensive zone play improved by leaps and bounds this past season. He showed improvement. Which is why he was getting top 4 shifts and ice time. Will he ever be a shut-down defenseman in this league? No. That is not his game. But he made great strides in Paul Maurice’s “team defense” system, which helps cover for the mistakes so that a player can play with confidence and not in a shell of “I’d better not fuck up, not even once, or I’ll be spending the next week in the press box”. (We could probably ask Denis Seidenberg what a difference that makes as well)
Offensively he is a solid puck mover, not flashy, with a huge shot from the point. But his game expanded/improved in the offensive zone as well. Contrary to what some of you seem to want to insist, all of his goals were not just random blasts from the point. Some of his biggest goals came when he played with confidence and intuition, and read the play and snuck in from the point for a back door or rebound opportunity. In fact, I would say that it was in the playoffs, when his confidence was shaken from mistakes made in the defensive zone (getting caught out of position and being tentative with the puck) that he reverted to his old “I’ll just close my eyes, bomb it from the point, and hope for the best” predictability.
Granted he had a horrible playoffs, but I’m not willing to forget the progress he made, in his all around game, throughout the regular season. I’m willing to chalk the playoffs up to youth, inexperience at that level, and a still fragile psyche.
To be honest, I think the Canes could have gone a long way towards helping to develop that part of his game, that fragile psyche, buy at least offering him a good faith offer with a decent if not extravagant pay raise and perhaps a multiple year deal to award him for the hard work and improvement. To show that they wanted to keep him, to meet him somewhere near half-way, and not just take a hard line, stubborn position just because they could.
The thing to consider is that Babchuk, right now, today, is not anywhere near the defenseman he has the potential to be. To the same end, he is a much better denfenseman right now than he was last year at this point. Seems to me those are the types of guys you want to keep if you can.
I’m still hoping that something can be worked out to bring Babs into the fold. But a lot has to happen before that can be a reality. The Canes have to see how things shake out with Ruutu, whether or not Kaberle can/will be bought out of his contract, what other veteran defensemen are left out there at that point (Seidenberg?) and at what price – and both sides will have to swallow a bit of pride and and eat a little crow.
That might be a tall order.
-m
Cool
You just saved me a lot of typing. I could not agree with you more. The one point that I might add: JR and management were not happy with the Russia situation and I think that they look at it as a potential threat to the league. They may be trying to make a bigger point here. They may make an example to the players. “If you sign a deal with the Canes(or any NHL team), then bolt for another league, you will get the same treatment. Don’t do it, don’t even think about it……remember what happened to that Babchuk guy.” Pissing of JR is not a good career move.
JR, set your feelings aside, get him signed to a fair if not better than market deal………
What purpose does it serve us...
To sign him for more than the market dictates?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO JR has offered him a fair market deal
Consisting of a good raise from last year’s salary, it seems to me it’s the length of the deal that is the sticking point
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 14, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely.
For an RFA with his OVERALL resume and experience (not just the 72 regular-season games last year which account for approximately 38% of his career games), it’s perfectly fair.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's my one problem with this logic:
Babchuk has already shown a propensity to take his ball and go home when things don’t go his way. Regardless of whether he gets paid what he thinks he should (Double the offer? More?), he strikes me as the type that’s never going to give us a Jokinen-esque hometown discount. When he hits UFA, he’ll probably go to the team that offers him the most money, and if we had it, I bet he’d come back. He clearly doesn’t let sentiment interfere with his logic. He’s looking out for number one above all else.
I don’t think the complaint is about the length at all. I think he’s just desperate to get paid through the end of his RFA status so he can leave, regardless of whether his performance now or moving forwards merits it..
Are you really going to celebrate the fact that our coach is forced to use a system that covers for our defensenmen’s deficiencies at the expense of our offense? Yes, it worked better, but if players like Babchuk weren’t coughing up the puck and misplaying loose pucks, it wouldn’t have been anywhere near as bad in the first place.
Giving him everything he wants is not “meeting him half-way.” They’re not taking a “stubborn” position “because they can.” They’re taking a prudent financial position because they need to to build a competitive roster within their payroll limitations. In no way have they shown they don’t want to keep him. They simply don’t need to overpay for him. Again, it was nobody’s fault but Babchuk that they had the opportunity to make him the offer they did with no recourse for him. Sympathy for his mistake won’t win us games or leave payroll wiggle room to bring on a contract at the trade deadline.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the post Bubba- I am really surprised by his answers. He was either being “honest,” or “angling” for a better deal. Not sure. But I also find it quite uncanny to receive such answers from a player in the middle of a contract negotiation. I am sure that the 7-8 teams interested are really 3-4…he boasts numbers like a teenager…..
by PittsburghCaniac on Jul 14, 2009 12:32 AM EDT reply actions
Dynamics of a Babchukian Relationship
These post iterated a fair assessment of Babs’ talents and weaknesses. I think it is clear from the history of the relationship that JR is not trying to “stick it” to anyone. If anything, this team and GM have shown an ability to offer second chances to players with potential, sometimes hidden, and who have a history with the team. Maybe Babs is again failing to hold up his end of an opportunity and just wants too much. I would assume that the 1 mill offer had some slight upward flexibility and that the puck is on Anton’s blue line waiting for a response….oops he’s bobbling it again…and there goes Malkin and Crosby in for a tick tac toe brake away score leaving Cam out to dry….
It is also obvious that, unlike 2 years ago, this team is looking for the shut down D-man element rather than the puck moving offensive blueliner. This is evidenced by the Kaberle buy out possibility and the Anton situation.
Anton Babchuk seems to have a really inflated sense of his own abilities. Or maybe he’s right on about how good he is and how good he can be. Potential stars need that ice time and they need coaches who are going to groom them and put them in important situations and forgive their mistakes—and a player Babchuk’s age is going to make them (and I’m talking about on-ice mistakes). This was his first ever NHL playoff experience. Players struggle to acclimate themselves to the speed of the NHL game, and it’s even faster in the playoffs. I would be willing to give him a pass on his playoff performance.
Part of the thing with Babchuk is that he doesn’t display the humility we’re used to from hockey players. For instance, Rod Brind’Amour, a 1000+ point player and future Hall of Famer, is always talking about how terrible he played in interviews, even when he has a great game; you know he knows he’s one of the all-time greats, but he’s probably too humble to boast.
When Babchuk says, “It’s a business. Management wants to get the best possible player at the least possible price. Player wants to get paid as much as he can,” he is absolutely right. For some reason we love it when GMs play hardball with players and tell them to take a hike and their demands are outrageous, but when players try to do the same thing, we hate them for it. He’s just trying to play the contract game, trying to get as much money as he can. He may be overstating his value on purpose. He’s haggling!
That said, I doubt he has another 15+ goal season now that he’s made a name for himself around the league. The pressure is going to be on, and if he’s really that confident in himself, he’ll take a one-year deal, finally prove himself with a killer season, and then sign somewhere for the big money. But I understand him wanting to lock up a multi-year deal right now.
Nobody is saying we should begrudge him his playoff failure...
But ignoring it isn’t a reasonable solution, either. I don’t hate it when players leave for more money from other teams. It’s a business on both ends. If he refuses to play for us at the price we’ve set as his worth, that’s his prerogative, but he’s so far yet to produce anybody else willing to pony up the big bucks he seems to think he’s entitled to. So if you’re saying you doubt he can produce another good offensive season (since scoring goals is pretty much what he does), why would we jump at his demands like he has the upper hand?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 14, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You hit the nail on the head: we’re used to nice, stoic hockey players and Babs’ honesty and realistic (albeit inflated) point of view is a-typical. While honestly is the benchmark of a Boy Scout, it doesn’t make me like him. I used to think his (vocal) ego was forgivable what with his potential. However, I grow “weary of his insolence.” We can talk about potential all day, but unless he shows some potential maturity and swallows his 6’5" pride, I could care less and less. That’s why I thank god twice a day we have Timmy Gleason instead of Jack Johnson.
I was looking at Vancuver’s roster and the only guy I liked was Edler. No way we get him for Babs.
Personally, I thought Babs’ middle name was “Stoic” …. lol
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 14, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions

















