NHL Free Agency - Day One Recap and Discussion
by Bob Wage on Jul 2, 2009 10:47 AM EDT
141 comments
The biggest news around Raleigh, North Carolina yesterday was that Erik Cole re-enlisted for another two years on the Carolina Hurricanes. According to the Canes Country poll on the front page, an overwhelming 85% of you are in favor of that deal, although a very vocal minority is against it. For those of you who are unhappy, things could always be worse. Wait until we take a look at some of the other deals around the league. (see below)
Lost in the shuffle yesterday were the signings of Michael Ryan and Patrick Dwyer. Both agreed to a two-way deal, which gives the Hurricanes the ultimate flexibility. While both spent some time with the big club last season, they will most likely be spending most of their time in Albany next year. It's a bonus that both are NHL tested if needed though.
Also, there is a little matter of the signing of Chad LaRose, still pending. Apparently, Jim Rutherford was a little peeved late yesterday afternoon when LaRose's agent never returned a phone call. Rutherford was reportedly waiting on bated breath because he was in the middle of dealing with another free agent. Interesting.
We will see how that all works out, but don't count on LaRose being out of Raleigh until you see the official ticker that has him signing elsewhere. We will be watching for that news all day today.
Also lost in the shuffle was the announcement by ESPN magazine yesterday that the Hurricanes franchise was rated the second best franchise out of 122 sports clubs analyzed. Congratulations to Hurricanes management. We will investigate about this a bit later and run a more detailed article once we have completed some research and have more facts.
Now for the recap-
The most active team? Bob Gainey and the Montreal Canadiens. They wanted some new blood and that is exactly what they got, but at what price? After being laughed at around the league for taking Scott Gomez's outrageous 7.3 million dollar contract over from the Rangers, they went out and added even more expense. Check out these numbers- Mike Cammaleri, 30 million over five years. Brian Gionta, 25 million over five years. (WOW) Jaroslav Spacek and Hal Gill were also both added with multi-year contracts. That's a lot of bread, but they can certainly afford it. The Habs are trying to buy themselves a good team, but will it work?
The funniest deal? Martin Havlat to Minnesota. The Wild refused to re-sign Marian Gaborik because of his injury issues, but replaced him with another injury prone player. We will see what happens there.
The Rangers replaced Gomez's 7 million dollar contract with another one for Marian Gaborik. While the superstar can look like the most dynamic player in the league at times, he remains a walking groin injury. Can he stay healthy in NY?
The Sedins stayed in Vancouver, no surprise. Nik Khabibulin signed in Edmonton with a 50% cut in pay. Can he stay healthy?
Marian Hossa signed a lifetime contract in Chicago. Teams are beginning to figure out how to circumvent the salary cap a bit now, as they sign star players to long term deals, and front load the payments. Hossa's deal ends up only paying him a million a year in the final years of his 12 year deal. If Chicago decides to cut him or if he retires, it's at minimal cost to the team. Look for the future CBA negotiations to address these types of deals.
The Southeast Division got better as Washington signed Mike Knuble. Tampa and Atlanta both improved their defenses. Florida kept David Booth and is looking to make a splash today.
Chris Neil managed to get a four year deal worth $8 million from Ottawa. The price of agitators just went up.
Speaking of agitator, we will continue keeping an eye on the LaRose situation and will report as soon as we hear anything. Or perhaps Rutherford will sign the "other free agent" he is working with?
____
Let's compare Cole's contract to a couple of others.
Chris Neil, $8 million for four years. Last three years of production- 21 goals, 37 assists, 58 points.
Erik Cole, $5.8 million for two years. Last three years of production- 69 goals, 85 assists, 154 points
Brian Gionta, $25 million for five years. Last three years of production- 67 goals, 91 assists, 158 points.
If you compare Cole's contract with Gionta's and take into consideration that Cole is a more physical player, (look at the hit totals for each player), Carolina got a bargain.
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From the Puck Daddy Twitter aggregator:
thefourthperiod: Hurricanes close to signing “third-line type player”, I’m told
Luke DeCock was suggesting 6’-6" Antropov in his blog this morning…
Appropriately named the “NHL Soap Opera”
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Jul 2, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
He also mentioned Taylor Pyatt...
who brings size and a bit of scoring touch.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the comparisons on Cole’s contract to those others. I feel even better now. (And find the Canadiens to be even more of a crazy situation. Did they get a $10mil allowance above the Cap in exchange for hosting the draft?)
From the poll last night, 6 in 7 who answered felt “happy” about the numbers (easy to overlook that stat, if you read only the comments that went on through the night)
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
I think that poll was a bit slanted.
There was no option for people who felt like we didn’t grossly overpay him, but still don’t think we should have brought him back. Leaving only one negative option that’s very extreme is going to limit the answers to it.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
I assumed that people who did not want him back at any price would vote that he was being over paid. Seems logical to me.
Are you saying they did not vote at all or voted positively?
GM of CanesCountry.com
Yes, I am:
When the only choices are “we overpaid a lot and I’m furious” and “we overpaid (but not by a lot) and I’m happy,” that leaves a lot of middle ground that people couldn’t pick.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Not attacking you, either...
Just noting that response bias can have a big effect in the results of non-scientific polling.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, the comparison to Gionta isn't exactly apt.
Cole is a player whose numbers have been in steady decline for the last few years. After a big dropoff following the lockout season, Gionta’s numbers have been on the upswing since, and he’s younger to boot.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not like the Cole contract is anywhere near 5 year $25 mil either. (I’m agreeing with you, MP, that Cole and Gionta have different roles and different potential)
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Jul 2, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
upswing? his goal production has gone down the past four years in a row.
http://www.nhlpa.com/WebStats/PlayerBiography.asp?ID=6782
GM of CanesCountry.com
But his points have gone up in each of the last three.
Scoring goals isn’t the only way you can contribute on offense.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
How close do you see these budget projections?:
I posted this elsewhere a little while ago:
As of this morning, with Cole’s contract newly signed, we’re at $44.7. Add Babchuk at $1mil and estimate Ruutu at $2.5mil and we’re up to $48.2mil.
If we trade Babchuk, and lose LaRose, we have about $3mil to stay on PK’s budget. Can we use the young folks to fill in for Chad – hardly a ‘replacement" but something new and fresh? Can we get a higher dollar experiened D for $3mil? (If Seids and Babs are gone, and Kabs here to stay, I’m thinking a top 4 guy to go with Corvo, Pits and my personal fave, Gleason)
I’m just trying to broaden our horizons to the possibilities.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
That'd be a tough sell...
We’d have a hard time getting any value for him.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 2, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
+1 I personally cannot stand him and find him to be quite useless.
by PittsburghCaniac on Jul 2, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Grier could be interesting… talk about grit!
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Pyatt is 6’4, 220, age 27 and from Thunder Bay. We do have some positive history with forwards who are 6’4 from ThunderBay.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Jul 2, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
interesting…. :)
any word on LaRose yet? rumors of who he is talking to?
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Antropov, he gets 4 million a year for 4 years in Atlanta.
Recchi goes back to Boston for one year and 1 million. Bargain there.
GM of CanesCountry.com
Recchi is mostly a depth forward at this point in his career. I’m just happy he’s not in a Canes sweater. My guess is he plays 55 games this year at most.
I thought that about Recchi last year and he had 61 points in 80 games, plus more in the playoffs. Not too shabby.
GM of CanesCountry.com
I think for a guy like Recchi at this point in his career he has to be in a place that’s very deep on offense. Boston’s first two lines are able to wear out defenses. Recchi is able to come in against winded players and score. It’s very similar to the role he filled here when the Canes won the cup. I don’t think the Canes have enough depth to allow Recchi to play that sort of third line sniper role. He’d be relied on to do more in Carolina, which I fear would lead to too much wear and tear on his body.
There’s no doubt that he’s a heck of a competitor, I just think he doesn’t fit here.
Do we even NEED another 3rd-line forward?
I would imagine some of the Rats are about ready to cut their teeth, i.e. Bowman, Boychuck, Sutter, etc.
those guys are great for a 3rd line, but dont have much ability to move up to the 2nd or 1st if need be yet… if we could get a guy that can, it would be very good for the team.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to be late to the party on Cole's salary but . . .
Cole + 2 million a season = Havlat. At the time of the signing of Cole I wasn’t too upset at the time, but in comparison, Havlat on Staal’s right is a better use of money then re-signing Cole and, and it pains me to say this, LaRose.
Havlat had a good year last season, but I am not sold on him enough to shell out big bucks and a long term deal
GM of CanesCountry.com
He had good seasons in Ottawa before he was traded. The injuries are a problem, but are they any more of a problem then with Cole? I would say less just given the nature of the two players injuries. Also, he’s a true first line player who could really help create room for Staal. Add to it that he’s 28 and is only signed until he’s 34, a time he should still be fairly productive.
Adrian Aucoin
Signed in Phoenix, no news yet on terms.
I just want to see us get someone who can be productive. But I don’t see many options left out there in terms of scoring/power forwards. They don’t need a third line guy. Why is Jr going after third line talent when he needs to replace second line ability?
I hope that rumor is nothing but a rumor….
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
I also wanted to talk about the back-loaded deals.
I don’t see the NHL getting involved. To me, it seems like a smart way to use your cap space effectively. No different than NFL teams backloading non-guaranteed money so that guys have to earn it to stay on board.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
I was referring to front loaded deals.
Instead of signing Hossa to a 62 million contract over 6 years which would be a 10 million cap hit, they sign him to a 12 year deal and it is a 5 million cap hit. But then they pay him the bulk of the money in the first 6 years, (front loaded) and both parties can go their separate ways later with minimal loss. They are only paying him 1 million a year in the final years of the contract. It’s very easy to buy those out when the time comes.
It’s a smart way to circumvent the cap because it is legal now, but I doubt it will be in the future. I think that it takes away from the intent of the cap.
GM of CanesCountry.com
I dunno… With players aging, it would only seem fair that they would most likely be paid less near the end of their career, then the beginning due to decreased value?
maybe I am looking at it the wrong way?
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Like if Chelios had signed a 12 year contract 12 yrs ago(I know this would never happen, but for the concept) there would be no way a team would have him making more then 1mil in the last year, when he wouldnt be likely to put up the numbers he did in years 1-6 or so.
I am sure thought that teams would have to work out some kind of negotiations with a player that was still producing 10yrs into a front loaded 12 yr contract. Or else the player would demand to be bought out, or retire.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I agree with Bubba. Smart way to circumvent the cap, but I really doubt we’ll be seeing Hossa finishing up his career in 12 years as a Hawk.
I think it is within the letter of the law, but totally against the intent of the CBA
I agree that it is a smart way to circumvent the cap, and is against the idea of the CBA, but I think it makes since to front load contracts that are spread out for such a long period of time and it would be dumb not to. I think the NHL will do something about it over time, but I personally dont see whats wrong with it.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Wysh on his live chat:
[Comment From Alex]
Any news on Malhotra or Samuelsson?
Wyshynski: Some chitter chatter that Malholtra could end up on Carolina, but nothing solid.
Memorable quote: “A 3rd line center at best”. Don’t we already have about 6 3rd line centers? That seems pretty remote.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Jul 2, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
12:49
[Comment From Kevin]
Have the Pens shown any interest in Chad LaRose?
12:49
Wyshynski: He might be too rich for their blood, actually. LaRose is getting a lot of interest.
hahaha NICE!
GO CHAD! Too good for the Champs!!
Just come back home already!
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
lot of shoppers, but still no deal. Hmmmm.
And apparently they never returned JR’s call last night – even to reject the offer. Paul B on hurricanes.com TTS seemed to think this morning that both Chad and JR are trying very hard to work something out with the Canes that makes everyone satisfied.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Jul 2, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I cannot imagine the pens having the money to grab LaRose. The media is all about covering whether they can keep Scuderi or not up here.
by PittsburghCaniac on Jul 2, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Question for Everyone
Boston resigned Recchi for 1 yr @ 1 million. That puts them over the salary cap and they still haven’t reported Bitz salary, they have to resign or trade Kessel, and need one more defenseman. How the hell is that going to work?
Its probably been posted, but does anyone have any idea how much Rosie is probably going to get?
by PittsburghCaniac on Jul 2, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions
my guess… 1.3-1.6 mil. maybe a tiny bit more.
I think it depends on length of the contract. I dont see a team signing him for more then 3 yrs, but who knows.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
yep and yep. Thats exactly what I was thinking.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
From what I can remember, opinions here have been in the $2mil range…But many are wondering if a team like the NYR would fork up $4mil.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
I can see 2 mil… if he gets 4 the GM should be thrown off a bridge.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Then what the heck is our problem with resigning him? If we really want to keep him, we should be able to find a way to do so paying him the money that he deserves. We arent going to be able to short-change him, he is way too young to take a cut to stay with us.
by PittsburghCaniac on Jul 2, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
After that interview with JR, I think LaRose isn’t going to commit to any contract number until he’s heard all options. Like Rosey (or agent) considers this an auction on Ebay that hasn’t closed. Perhaps JR has “bid” the reserve number, but until it’s played out, Chad is happily biding his time (kinda cool to hear your name tossed around so positively on all the hockey news outlets – let him relish that awhile). From what I’d been hearing, usually JR wouldn’t accept being put in this position. He must really like LaRose.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
from Puck Daddy a few mins ago:
Wyshynski: Among the still-unsigned: Tanguay, Zubov, Kovalev, Koivu, Beauchemin, Scuderi, Mara, Sundin, Morris, Comrie, LaRose, Morrisson, Schnieder, Satan, Peca, Leopold, Bergeron, Boynton, Afinogenov, Bertuzzi, Boucher, Bonk and Marchant.
anyone you like?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
Sundin, Comrie, LaRose, Peca, Bergeron(but we already have Cullen to worry about concusions), Afinogenov(although he is just a lesser talented Cole I LOVE watching that guy play… it would have to be for DIRT cheap for him to be a Cane though).
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
and of course I realize that many of those are way beyond our price range… but I still like them.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you just compare Afinogenov and Cole?
No offense, but I think you are way off on that.
We already have our Russian that loves to dance with the puck.
they have the same lower the shoulder skate to the ourside move… same speed… same type of play against the boards…
Max does dance a lot more then Cole though… but I do think they are similiar.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Cole is a lot more talented obviously… but they are alike.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Beauchemin, Scuderi, and Mara on D, but it looks like the Canes are promoting from within the system to fill out the defense. I don’t like any of those forwards except for Tanguay, Comrie, and Koivu, but do the Canes really need another center?
…maybe. Cullen and Jokinen are serviceable but not top-notch second line centers, and who knows if Brind’Amour can still do the job. I sure wouldn’t mind seeing Tanguay on Staal’s wing, feeding him goals. Whitney’s getting up there…he’s not going to be an elite playmaker forever. Tanguay is only 29. Well, not “only” 29, but he’s got at least five years of good hockey left, right?
he played a ton of games in the minors this year- pretty much was a waste of salary cap space for the pens.
by PittsburghCaniac on Jul 2, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
So did Max for the Sabres… but I still like him. hahaha And whats not to love about the name Satan?!
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 2, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
If he goes to the devils, I still would HAVE to buy the jersey.
by PittsburghCaniac on Jul 2, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
apparently Beauchemin has 10-12 offers to choose from. I wonder if LaRose is in the same boat.
GM of CanesCountry.com
I still think he could be a viable option. Although I never considered Afinogenov as another option. He has the ability to score, but is he a size guy, or another Samsonov?
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
6"0"
191
He isn’t exactly a big guy.
I like to call him Crazy Legs. He can skate, but he can’t finish at all. Broken 20 goals 3 out of 9 seasons.
21 goals in 81 GP in 01-02
22 goals in 77 GP in 05-06
23 goals in 56 GP in 06-07
6 g 14 A in 48 GP last year.
I don’t like Afinogenov at all honestly.
I like him… but like I said, hes a lot like Cole.. he had the skates and the speed, but not the hands. Buffalo hasnt really given him much of chance this year though… they have basically thrown him away, on a team that dosnt have much star power. But I think in the right system he would be much better. Too bad Lavi isnt coaching anywhere.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 3, 2009 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions
afinigenov is good in th esame way samsonov is.
they both can finish at the same rate.
but they open up space. weve all seen it.
but that being i dont think we need another one.
Samsonov frustrates me too much. I agree with you now. We don’t need another one like that here.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Thanks for the heads up, I am at work today though.
I’m sure you guys will give us a heads up on what was said, or at least SOMEONE here will
You can stream it here:
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/999thefan/
Just hit the play button at the top right corner…
He was close to making a deal for a forward last night and backed off.
Talked about combining Babchuk and LaRose money (if both leave) to get a UFA Dman…(Didn’t I suggest that this morning…?) But it could be a while.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
That’s a great idea if he can get a solid defensive defenseman to pair with Corvo. Even with losing LaRose, this team is still pretty deep up front:
C: Staal, Cullen, Brind’Amour, Sutter
LW: Whitney, Samsonov, Jokinen, Ryan
RW: Cole, Ruutu, Eaves, Dwyer
I would like to seem them add some grit to the 4th line, though.
Aaaah!!! I knew I’d forget somebody. That was like, right off the top of my head and typed out in a hurry. The point is, the team is deep at forward without LaRose, and it would be a good idea to strengthen the D instead.
As for Conboy…I like him in the role he’s in now, a guy they can throw into the lineup for about 30 games a season. Is he a guy you can feel good about playing game in, game out? If Conboy was a straight up enforcer, I wouldn’t mind the fact that he’s got no goals and six assists in 47 NHL games. No, I’m not looking for 10 goals out of a 4th liner, as nice as that would be, but there’s got to be someone out there who can score about five, won’t kill you defensively, and take the body. Bayda would be great, but he already rejected the Canes offer and who knows what’s going to happen with him.
this will get you on Canes Country Twitter, then sign up with some of the people we are following
http://twitter.com/CanesCountry
GM of CanesCountry.com
Grabovski - LaRose comparison
Grabovski last year had 20 goals and 48 points in 78 games. He’s 25 and signed a 3 year deal giving him 2.9 million per. LaRose played 81 games with 19 goals and 12 assists for 31 points. Now Grabovski is a center and Rosey a wing, but the point totals are similar especially when you factor in Grabovski got power play time and had better finishers on his line most of the season. Makes you wonder what salary Rosey, who also kills penalties, will be able to get.
Grabovski - Ruutu
Would like to see what Ruutu is worth in this comparison.
wow- If you look at the last three years, LaRose has better stats than Grabovski, and has a better plus/minus. The Canes would never pay him that much though.
GM of CanesCountry.com
That's what a high profile market will do for you
If LaRose played in Toronto, everybody would have known his name before this year’s playoffs.
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