Nothing New Regarding Ruutu Negotiations
by Bob Wage on Jul 20, 2009 5:56 PM EDT
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This afternoon I gave a quick phone call to Bill Zito of Acme World Sports, who represents Tuomo Ruutu in his ongoing contract negotiations with the Hurricanes. Mr. Zito informed me that there was nothing new to report regarding the issue. While "things are fine", he indicated that there were "no updates". After the conversation, one could surmise that an agreement is not on the immediate horizon.
With the arbitration hearing scheduled for next week Thursday, July 30th, it would seem that the time for compromise is fast approaching.
I asked Ruutu's long time agent how he typically went about determining the value of a client during these types of contract disputes and he answered that of course he could not speak directly about any specific ongoing negotiation, but generally speaking there is no "cookie cutter" method to determine a player's value. Each player is different and it depends upon a wide variety of factors.
"A player's value could be based upon his statistics, his leadership, and his overall character. Sometimes it is even based upon a particular team's need for a certain type of player. For instance, a player who does not score often could have a higher value for one team than he does for another, simply because he fits well within that team's system. And if that team needs him in order to be successful, that could drive up his value."
Zito also stated that clubs look at players the same way. Budget concerns might be a factor, but that does not necessarily affect the monetary worth of a player.
While no one wants this to go to the arbitration hearing next week, it sure would be fascinating to sit in on that meeting. Canes Country will continue to follow any developments closely.
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Well, that comment from him is kinda off base in my eyes.
If a player is only valuable to one team……to fit within their system in his words, how does that drive his value up at all? His value to that team yes, but if noone else wants said player, where does that help him?
Well I see it as them saying if a player like Rutuu helps our team by being the biggest hitter on the team (which sometimes can make the stats look lower for a player) which opens up opportunities for the other players on his team to score and we don’t have another player like that on the team, then he is more valuable to us than a team like Detroit who already has players that are big hitters and they don’t need another hitter on the bench so he wouldn’t be as valuable to them as he is to the Canes. I think that’s the jist of what they are saying and that would be true. Rutuu was our biggest hitter in the NJ and Boston series which was a key reason we won both those series. That is why the Pens most important agenda was to take Rutuu and Cole (who was 2nd in hits) out early which they accomplished, which I wll always believe why they won the series in 4 games. No one will make me feel different about that.
I remeber last year at this time we were going through this with LaRose and just days before the arbitration hearing they made a deal. Hopefully history will repeat itself.
C
If that player's stats put him at being a league minimum player...
Then they’d be willing to pay more for him to avoid having to compete with other teams. Just as an example.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for going the extra step on this question, Bubba. Works as an interesting follow up to your print media piece. (Has the N&O curtailed long distance phone calls too?)
Knowing that Ruutu’s not talking to other franchises, I think JR is working on other pieces of the puzzle so he can offer Ruuts as much as possible and try to get the longer-term contract. I have complete faith that JR will make this happen even if he can only sign Ruus to a 1-yr deal. I see that as worse-case scenario, which is acceptable if not perfect.
Great photo LTD ! – very nice with the beard & practice jersey.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 20, 2009 6:51 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks! (tons more where that one came from)
That picture is actually from the pregame skate before ECF Game 4. Sadly, according to the clock on my camera, he left limping two minutes later and that was the last time we saw him on the ice for the season. :-(
It’s obviously in the JR’s best interests to lock him up for a few years if he can, but that particular memory is one reason why I don’t think one year is in Ruutu’s best interests either.
And echoing the kudos to Bubba for picking up the phone.
by Jamie Kellner on Jul 20, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s cool – the last time Ruu took the ice during the season (trying hard, but hurting and disappointed). Makes the photo that much more appropriate to tell the story. (Good choice, Bubba – but don’t forget to tell us these things!)
I think in this case, his injury wasn’t so much from physical (risky) play as much as a “slew-foot” of a Penguin. When you’re a key player, you have a target on your back (or lower body). From what I’m hearing, if we’ve got a couple guys acting as enforcers (Tommy K and Andrews), the theory is that we won’t be so vulnerable. (Have I got that right guys? This is an entirely male area of expertise, so far as I can tell).
(I’m sorry, another stupid question: but what the heck is a slew foot???)
Last item: 73 d, 21 h, 10 m.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 20, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Slew Foot
From the horse’s mouth:
http://www.nhl.com/rules/rule91.html
“Slew-Footing” is the act of a player using his leg or foot to knock or kick an opponent’s feet from under him, or pushes an opponent’s upper body backward with an arm or elbow, and at the same time with a forward motion of his leg, knocks or kicks the opponent’s feet from under him.
And yes, while in this instance it was someone else’s action that caused the injury, Ruutu’s style of play (and past injury history) leaves him vulnerable to not only injure himself but also to be injured by the way others play against him (legal or illegal in this case being debatable). Erik Cole is the same way. Which gets back to C59’s point above. And which is why if I’m Ruutu I lock up long term now when my stock is high, not later.
by Jamie Kellner on Jul 20, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I see what your saying, and I do agree… however I can also see why Ruutu’s personality and ‘never say die’ attitude would lead him more towards a one year deal with the chance to bank even more next season.
The guy is going to get paid… lets just hope the check says Gale Force on it.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 20, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said, and I agree with you as well, and share that hope!
by Jamie Kellner on Jul 21, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't possibly imagine...
That a business would not have long-distance paid for, hm…low blow.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 21, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Heard Carson and Rodney got deals….
Come on JR, snag this guy, give him what he wants and has earned!!!
A
How much exactly has he earned?
Ryan Clowe, who Cory pointed out is about the best comparable player, signed a 4 year 14 million dollar deal. Is Ruutu worth 3.5 million a year? For our budget he probably slots in closer to 2.75. Is 3 a year for 3 years a good compromise because of the injury issues? Is he as valuable for his hits now that Kostopoulos and Alberts have been signed?
Stat wise maybe, but steel to ice and rubber to stick, Flesh to board, Ruutu is the superior pick between the two.
A
steel to ice and rubber to stick, Flesh to board
Can I use this sometime? Very nice visuals.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as PK makes us a " Budget Team "...
…we are going to have to deal with crap like this. As long as the owner is not willing to spend anywhere near the cap, we risk losing guys like Ru for no good reason, success will be fleeting, and we will see the feast or famine that we have for the last 7 years as far as playoffs.
by Douchebag St John on Jul 20, 2009 8:40 PM EDT reply actions
For what it’s worth, we are actually going to be fairly close to the salary cap this year due to some of our backloaded contracts.
What is fairly close?
Unless something changes we will still be 4-6 million under the cap.
In our organization that’s another entire line and d pairing. I seem to remember that we were 22nd against the cap among 30 teams last year, we may be slightly higher this year, but not by much. Another thing to keep in mind is that the cap is speculated to come down for the 2010-2011 season.
IMO the only way we get close to the cap any year is by adding pieces at the trade deadline for another cup run, ie Recchi and Weight in 2006. Although is we go to at least two rounds of playoffs for several seasons PK might be inclined to spend a little more.
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 21, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
We are at $51.033 right now with 20 players. After we re-sign Ruutu and if we pick up another defenseman (which I expect), we could be close to $56 million. That would put us a little over $1 million under the cap.
Don’t confuse actual spending for cap hit.
Not confusing cap and salary
Our cap hit is listed as $51.033 and $51.8 million on two separate sites. Admittedly I misspoke when I said 4-6 million under the cap. Forgot about the Staal hit starting this season. Hopefully after we sign Rutuu to his one year deal and buyout Frankie we will have some $$ left under the cap. Does Sutter’s contract count against the cap if he plays in Albany next year? Between him and trading Eaves we could save about 2.6 million in cap space and salary. That would definitely bag us another d-man.
PS DC thanks for keeping me accountable.
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 21, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The best place for Canes specific salary items is the salary chart right here on Canescountry. The Canes stand right now at 47.7 million in salary commitments next season with 21 players signed which includes both the 2.2 for Kaberle and the 1.4 for Eaves. Buying out Kaberle would get the Canes down to almost 46 million, which would leave 4 million for Ruutu and a 2nd pair d-man (D Seidenberg). Buying out Kaberle, signing Ruutu (3 million) and Seidenburg (1.75) as well as carrying Rodney at the NHL level (550 k) gets the Canes up to the 23 man limit at a total salary commitment of 51.5 million. Trading Eaves and carrying Goertzen at the NHL level brings that number down to 50.6 which is just slightly over the 50 million desired budget. That’s assuming the estimated #’s for Ruutu and Seidenburg are in line with any deals they may sign.
The discussion started about budget concerns and salary cap
C-Leaguer the numbers you put up are salary numbers not cap numbers. There is about a $2 million difference b/t the two. Otherwise your points are will stated, and well taken.
Again, I’ll ask if Sutter plays the whole year in Albany does his salary count against the cap?
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 21, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe we pay for what Sutter played last season.
That’s $394K
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't Be Surprised
I would not be surprised to see a Kaberle buy out and a Ruutu/Babchuk trade for a Briere type scorer….maybe not. I would like to see Ruutu in a Canes sweater for a long time.
Trade maybe...
…but not Briere! Ugh! I can’t stand that whiney little baby! I’ll never forget him basically saying that he and the Sabres lost the ECF without any credit to the Canes. He is way overpaid as the Flyers are now finding out.
Tanguay then? He must be getting nervous….
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Briere is due 7-8 million for the foreseeable future. Plus he is soft
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 21, 2009 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Briere isn’t a franchise face-type, not imo anyhow. you pay a premium for that. The NHL loves the Staals.
ES is also 7 years younger, more D upside, bigger, and he’s of Dutch immigrants.
Can’t say I’m familiar with the strong and noble tradition of hockey in the Netherlands – at least not since Hans Brinker
Look! It’s Eric, Mark and Jordan! Skate, boys, skate!
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
signing draft picks
Unrelated question:
I’ve been reading about the signings of the kids drafted 1st round (Tavares, Hedman, Duchene, and now ATL’s pick, Evander Kane, age 17). Why are these guys signing now and/or why aren’t we signing Paradis?
Are the signing teams expecting this year’s draft picks to play at the NHL level this season? Obviously “yes” for Tavares and Hedman – but Kane??!! Paradis has got to be more ready than Kane (age and size). Is Atlanta really ready to throw Kane out there?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 8:10 AM EDT reply actions
Good Question...I don't have an answer
Except that these teams need these players right now. We have the luxury of letting our prospects develop. That being said if Paradis has an excellent camp and pre-season who knows?
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 21, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
They've got the Boychuk exception, right?
Doesn’t he have a handful of NHL games he can play before he has to go back? 10 or so?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Boychuk is eligible to play in Albany this year.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 22, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I meant Paradis.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
But my point was made based on Swenksta's premise that...
if Paradis has an excellent camp and pre-season who knows?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
HM, you are correct. The players who have a chance to play in the NHL this coming season are being signed. There is no reason to sign Paradis at this point. If he comes to camp and plays his way on the team, then that is another story. But in reality, with so many veteran forwards already signed, his chances are slim to none.
Atlanta has more room for Kane to make their line up, regardless of his skill level right now.
GM of CanesCountry.com
No AHL Eligibility
Players who are under 20 and have not used up all eligibility for Major Juniors are not eligible to play in the AHL. Since all those guys just drafted have a year left of eligibility for Major Juniors their only options are to play at the NHL level or return to Juniors. A player can play up to ten games before being returned to their junior team, but if they stay on the NHL roster past the tenth game they cannot be returned to their Junior team and as such must play the rest of the season in the NHL.
Sometimes players get contracts that don’t kick in until after ten games have been played. If the player fails to make the team and is returned to their junior team the terms of the contract shift a season. I believe this is what the Canes did with Boychuk last season.
Interesting point on Sutter. He played 50 games for the Canes last season (08-09) at the ripe old age of 19. He turned 20 on Feb 14, 09 and then went to Albany on Feb 25 (playing only 2 games with 8min TOI after his birthday). Sounds like he was stuck in Carolina till his 20th birthday – using C-Leaguer’s explanation. I hadn’t heard that before.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Rutherford said that spot was his for the taking before last season. When Jokinen came over, played well at center, and Bridny continued to have issues, that made sending Sutter down to the AHL a no brainer.
I’m not sure if Sutter’s eligibility in major juniors was up. Most players play three years before they are eligible for the NHL draft, however, some only play two. Not sure on Sutter’s case. It’s hard to tell because of his age.
I just hope we don’t trade any of them or lose them. Sutter, Boychuck, maybe even Dalpe have a reasonable expectation at playing. You can only keep them down for so long until they get Babchuckitis.
A
I can't believe you would even make that comment about those players.
All are recognized as character guys, something Anton has not and will not ever be described as.
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 21, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Those kids are also Canadian/American. Babchuk is Russian. Playing in Russia means he gets paid more to play in his home country. The kids in our system aren’t in that boat.
At least none of them have JackJohnsontivits
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Another point to remember regarding signing some of the prospects is that they are still playing in college and subject to NCAA rules.
by ncdavid on Jul 21, 2009 11:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
right … sign as an NCAA guy and you’re done with college. That’s why those guys can’t come to training camp and have to pay their own way to conditioning camp (like Dalpe did the past two years, and Dumoulin did this year).
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 21, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Can they not come to training camp? I thought they could so long as they paid their own way, but this is one area where my knowledge is pretty thin.
Michael Procton mentioned that Dalpe is thinking of dropping out of OSU and turning pro sooner than later. But I never asked him (MP) where he’d seen that. What have you heard?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
He told me he’s going back this year and basically “we’ll see what happens” next year.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 21, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds good. Now if we can just move our AHL franchise to Hillsborough so I can go watch them every night, life would be perfect.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It was in the interview.
From my interpretation, he seemed to be open to the idea of playing here if they’d really have him.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure if they said “come play in Carolina this year!” he’d do it … but that won’t be the case, and I think he’d rather be at OSU than Albany this year.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 22, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
JR Video Interview
http://hurricanes.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=684&id=45138
JR just posted a video interview on the Canes site. Pursuant to this situation, he says the contract discussions with Ruutu are going “as expected” and that they are a “little bit apart” on what he thinks the deal should be for a one-year and a three-year deal, which is his preference. JR also says he hopes he’s not a player whose salary we won’t be able to fit into our system long term. And, of course, for all intents and purposes he’s signed at least for next year
Dennis Out
I was surprised to hear about Seidenburg being out of the picture. Interest in him must have picked up recently. JR’s says that he’s looking to trade for a veteran defensemen to play with Pitkanen.
Good stuff … tho they spelled Bryan Rodney “Brian” in the gfx.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 21, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
JR’s says that he’s looking to trade for a veteran defensemen to play with Pitkanen.
This is encouraging.
JR was pretty specific in the description of what he’s looking for – experienced, give ya a lot of minutes, big and strong [heck – sounds like someone in a match.com posting…..sorry. ] – like maybe he’s already got one or 2 trade targets identified. He didn’t seemed too concerned about the budget needed to pay for an experienced top-4 D-man. More than $2mil I’d think? (would that be $1.5 from Kaberle buy-out and $1mil from Babchuk).
Any way to speculate on who might be available? We already picked up a Flyer. How’s about the Rangers, Boston, Hawks – who else has cap issues and would prefer offense and a couple of our prospects (I shudder to think who)?
And at the end, does he suggest it might be also be a free-agent pick up (cheap close-out prices) in August? And then Babchuk isn’t part of a trade and goes to Russia?
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, maybe we can get a recycled Anson Carter, you know how well JR does that……
Don’t hold your breath, they have to shed some pounds before they get to feast on a good D-Man. Seids is one of the better ones out there. Oh well, I’ll miss Bab’s cannon of a shot, man if he ever gets around to aiming he may find himself in a good spot. I figure he’s russia bound within a few weeks. Seids probably is ahead of him and has his house up for sale. Next is Wallin and Kaberle. They gotta go, then we find out what they have to spend. I don’t see much of what JR likes on the FA list, i think he’s looking at a trade, so who else goes to get a D-man?
A
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