Hurricanes Still in Market for Top Four Defenseman

by Bob Wage on Jul 21, 2009 4:36 PM EDT

Carolina Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford hit the airwaves this afternoon with a plethora of news. He was also a guest on 99.9 The Fan at 3:20PM. Here is a summary of subjects he touched upon:

Very happy with the draft picks
Extremely happy with the free agent signings, both for depth and for the Canes
Negotiations with Dennis Seidenberg seem at an impasse and they are moving on (uh huh)
They will probably try to trade Anton Babchuk for a prospect or two
Negotiations with Tuomo Ruutu also seem at a standstill. As a last resort, they will accept the one year salary handed out in arbitration.
The team still wants a top four level defenseman to play alongside Joni Pitkanen. They seem willing to trade a forward to achieve this.

Now who is the top four blueliner they are interested in and who will be offered as trade bait? Caniacs need something to discuss during the offseason, no?

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I just finished posting this under the Ruutu comments when your tweet came through on this exact same question:

JR was pretty specific in the description of what he’s looking for – experienced, give ya a lot of minutes, big and strong [heck – sounds like someone in a match.com posting…..sorry. ] – like maybe he’s already got one or 2 trade targets identified. He didn’t seemed too concerned about the budget needed to pay for an experienced top-4 D-man. More than $2mil I’d think? (would that be $1.5 from Kaberle buy-out and $1mil from Babchuk).

Any way to speculate on who might be available? We already picked up a Flyer. How’s about the Rangers, Boston, Hawks – who else has cap issues and would prefer offense and a couple of our prospects (I shudder to think who)?

And at the end, does he suggest it might be also be a free-agent pick up (cheap close-out prices) in August? And then Babchuk isn’t part of a trade and goes to Russia?

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 4:40 PM EDT reply actions

I’m going to do some homework before I speculate on D men. It would seem that Patrick Eaves is the expendable forward though.

GM of CanesCountry.com

by Bob Wage on Jul 21, 2009 4:43 PM EDT reply actions

Eaves has been the consensus amongst the all-knowing bloggers here, for sure.

I listened again to that last minute or so. What he said, I think, is that when we trade a forward to pick up the new top-4 D, depending on who we give up, he would either replace that offensive opening with a FA pick-up in August or maybe have one of the young guys come up as a regular forward from Albany. He’s not talking about giving up any prospects from our side is he?

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions

“puts on insane trade hat”

Eaves + Babchuck + whatever is needed

to CHI

for

Duncan Keith

“end of insane trade”

by Iggy Reilly on Jul 21, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions

How about Eaves, brindy, wallin and kaberle for Nik Lidstrom.

Who’s your daddy on the insane front!!!!

by Paladin6 on Jul 21, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions

if this were nhl 09 brindy would def be the best to move, cause hed be like a 91 and soon to retire.
brindy for phanuef (who is on the cover) which means your team always wins..

by chrisj on Jul 21, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions

But really...

What could we legitimately expect to net for him. A 6th-rounder? Is clearing out his salary that important?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions

clearing out his salary is very important. Him, Babs and a prospect would clear a lot of salary and could give us a decent D man. There are teams out there that would give him a chance… just not many of them. If nothing else we can move Babs, a prospect, and a pick… and scratch Eaves if need be. I still have faith the guy can work out though.

by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 22, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Yes, but how do we feel if he goes 15-45 and remains a defensive presence...

And all we got back was $1-2 mil in salary space and a late-round pick?

Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

like dookie… thats the risk you take.

But if we get that space and gives us more to spend on a D man and Ruutu…. then that will help us a lot.

This team needs to win NOW. It will look completely different next year.

by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 22, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

And on the more serious side....

Dandenault may be a good fit or one of the other montreal crew. Fedoruk and Hale just went to tb for vrbata. I was thinking if I could be GM for a day who would I pick up? That’s a pretty hard question, i knida feel for JR, for once. Somebody that is an assassin like Kronwall or perfect like Lidstrom or Rafalski is all well and good, but how would they fit in here? I think the prospect has to be younger than 31, established as a skater and hitter with great hands and hockey sense. That wipes out my examples except Rafalski when he was younger. I wonder how they are going to fill the need. While I hate the bastard, pronger is what I think JR wants. I don’t see us getting that level or style of player.

My .02

brindy-phaneuf, yea man!!!!

by Paladin6 on Jul 21, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions

Ehrhoff

by Killswitch on Jul 21, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions

Jason Smith

Ottawa is currently over the cap and might not actually deal heatly. Enter Smith: a 35 yr old veteran defenseman with good size (6’3" 220 lbs.) and can play big minutes on the right side. Doesn’t this sound like what Rutherford is looking for?

A couple of factors bring the asking price down: Smith’s season ended early in February when he sprained his knee so there are injury concerns; Ottawa currently has a glut of players signed at the NHL level and needs to get rid of someone; and finally, Smith didn’t really have a great year (only 1 G and a -3) before the injury and only has one year left on his contract after which he becomes a UFA.

As for what would be going the other way? Hard to say. Ottawa doesn’t seem to have any specific holes to fill at the NHL level. This could be the bargain that Rutherford is looking for.

by Sluv on Jul 21, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions

Didn’t we get Eaves from Ottawa? Hmmm. Well, the boomarang plan has certainly worked out well here.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Interesting idea, but I am not sure this fits the mold of who we want. If he becomes a UFA next year, I doubt we would want that extra contract to deal with next season. We already have Corvo on that list this year, and I doubt JR wants another contract like that on his table.

I’m not saying it is a bad idea, I just don’t think that JR wants another contract issue at the end of the season.

Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader

by Ivan459 on Jul 21, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I still think we will sign Seids and Babchuck to a deal in the end, just my gut feeling. Both sides are playing “we’ll look at it and get back with you”, hoping the other one will give in.

What to do about Eaves? I agree with I think it was HM2 who said, who would want him?
Sounds like we will see his name on a ‘healthy scratch’ list quite a bit next season.

by c59 on Jul 21, 2009 7:05 PM EDT reply actions

i agree with this,

i see babchuk coming back.
he is a carolina guy,
i think he should grow up and mature with this team.

by chrisj on Jul 21, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I hope Babchuk doesn’t come back, he was too much of a liability in our own end during the playoffs. Not only that, but when teams figured out how to contain his shot from the points, he was pretty much voided out. Plus he thinks that since he ended up with a +/- that he should be crowned King of the Hurricanes. I think you could tempt a team that needs some goals from the point well enough to muster a trade, but the question is, who will bite? should be interesting to see what happens.

by get_A_name on Jul 21, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with you there. After all the Canes have done for Babs, bringing him back and giving him a second chance after he burned us a couple of years back, you would think the guy would be respect towards the Canes and work with JR on something. But no, he has to act like an ass over everything and like you said, act like he is the “King of the Hurricanes”.

I hope JR can trade him for something, because I don’t think we need to deal with this guy’s attitude anymore.

Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader

by Ivan459 on Jul 21, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Not sure I said it first, but I agree Eaves will be tough to trade. But then there seem to be some Flyers fans glad to be rid of Alberts. Eaves has potential from all accounts, but maybe the Canes don’t have the right “system”.

I watched playoff game 2 vs NJ last night. Eaves had the puck and was driving to the net at least 3 times to score and then was easily stopped. Not sure he ever got a shot off. He wasn’t looking ot pass (maybe on the 4th line no one there?..). Not sure what the problem was.

Babchuk looked so awkward and uncomfortable for much of the game (esp’ly within 20 feet our net) . My son suggested Babs looked like he wished he could play hockey in tennis shoes so he didn’t have to deal with skates.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 22, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions

someone may have posted this but

http://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=223

about a week out of date, but the article estimates Siedenberg will cost $6.5 mill over 3 years. To me, and i’m a raving fan but still a hockey neophyte, that seems a reasonable number and could fit under the Cane’s cap if they buy out Kaberle and move Babchuk.

by Gillimus on Jul 21, 2009 8:44 PM EDT reply actions

Interesting how Seids is expected to earn so much more than the other 4 “top 5”.

3 yr/$6.5 mil would be something like $1.9, $2.2, $2.4 mil.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions

3.Negotiations with Dennis Seidenberg seem at an impasse and they are moving on (uh huh)

Did you all catch the part in JR’s interview on 850 the Buzz last week where he explained that sometimes the only way he can “talk directly” to the player, without the agent running interference, is through the media? (Bubba has a link under fanposts) He was referring to his comments about calling it quits with Rosey. If it worked once, he certainly might try it again.

Uh huh.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 21, 2009 10:05 PM EDT reply actions

I talked to Cory about this early but I’ll let him give his opinion on some guys we talked about. As for what has been mentioned here, no interest in Jason Smith. He is past his prime, IMO, and really can’t play the big minutes that he used to in EDM. Plus I would think Rutherford would want someone that he can use beyond next year since we have some other D coming off the books.

As for Seids, Denis Grebeshkov just signed a one year, 3.25 mil deal in EDM. He is younger and may have more upside but that could drive Seids asking price up a bit. I’d think Seids is in the 2.5-3 mil/year range but with this signing not sure. Also for the record, I’d love to see Seids back.

As for who is still out there, if the Canes can move Eaves to ???, trade Babchuk, and buy out Kaberle, do you think there could be enough money for a guy like Derek Morris. Still pretty young, can play big minutes, plays physical, and can chip in some offense. He might be out of the price range depending on what moves could be made.

Other than Morris, anyone else would have to be via trade and I’m not sure where the Canes look. There are some teams with cap issues (PHI, CHI, NYR, SJ) but I don’t see any of those teams moving pieces yet. Though I would love to get Seabrook, I don’t see CHI moving him unless it’s for a king’s ransom. SJ may be willing to part with Errhoff but I’m not sure he is what we’d be looking for. Just my two cents.

by sticker on Jul 21, 2009 11:46 PM EDT reply actions

“Negotiations with Dennis Seidenberg seem at an impasse and they are moving on (uh huh)”

So this means Seidenberg is definitely going to re-sign, right?

by nomadologist on Jul 22, 2009 12:58 AM EDT reply actions

Possible Trade Teams M STAAL Coveted

Chicago, NYR and Ottawa are the 3 most likey teams that may need to shed cap. Ottawa, as someone mentioned, is not likely to want Eaves back. I like the mention of Keith from Chicago and although the Rangers claim to want to keep M Staal, I do not see how they will be able to afford him after 09/10. Could we see Eaves, Borer, and Babchuk to NYR for Staal?

by Caniac233 on Jul 22, 2009 7:04 AM EDT reply actions

Mark S would be in our budget. He’s at $765,000 then an RFA next year. Babchuk claimed the NYR were interested (if that’s true).

However, not sure if, at 22, he qualifies as “experienced” even if he did grow up skating on the sodfarm with a couple Cup-winners.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 22, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Keith and M Staal

Both of those guys are “untouchables”. That is why Tallon is out in Chicago. Next year is the big UFA year in Chicago, and they don’t have much to work with., but they won’t deal him.

by xlwino on Jul 22, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions

Tallon blew it with the Campbell contract … that’s an anchor on their necks. Think mean RFA year, but yes … Toews, Kane and Keith all up.

I know they want to keep Keith …. but I wonder if Seabrook could be in play. That being said, they’re more interested in moving a forward (Sharp foremost) than a D.

CanesCountry.com: An Eye On Carolina Hockey

by Cory Lavalette on Jul 22, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions

Using Cap Central here, so bare with me

Cap Central has the Hawks about 4.5 million over with 25 players on the Roster. Take the lowest D (Aaron Johnson cap hit 540K) and lowest forward (Colin Fraser cap hit 700K) and you take them down to just 3.32 million over the cap. That means that if/when they trade Sharp they can take back only 580k in salary. Someone is going to be able to buy Sharp for 3.9 million. Tampa needs to pick their heads up here and try and do just that. 3.9 million is less than they are rumored to be willing to spend on Tanguay.

by C-Leaguer on Jul 22, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Oops

I mean buy Sharp for a first round pick, not 3.9 million.

by C-Leaguer on Jul 22, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Sutter Not Mentioned

Has anyone noticed that Brandon Sutter has not really been part of anyone’s conversation? What will happen to the once “shoe in” future top 2 center? Boychuk and Bowman are oft mentioned as possibly making the team. Yesterday JR had nothing to say about Sutter or the two B’s.

by Caniac233 on Jul 22, 2009 8:09 AM EDT reply actions

I thought he said at the end of tthe Canesvision release, that if we trade a Forward to get a new D-man then,

1 – he might pick up a UFA forward in August (not sure if he used the word “cheap”, but that was implicit)
OR
2 – he would see if one of the prospects (which I read as Dwyer, Sutter, Boychuk, Bowman) could make the team at Camp, to fill the open slot. (he also hopes Bayda will be back if he can’t find a 1-way contract elsewhere))
OR
3 – start with a prospect and see how our needs develop during the season and do something later.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 22, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions

but you’re right he didn’t state those names specifically. Patty Dwyer did get a nice mention.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 22, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Columbus needs some offense

I have heard a lot this offseason about how Columbus has a number of dmen but is in need of some goal scorers. I am not sure if they or anybody is going to give up a top 4 dman for Patty Eaves but packaging Eaves, Babchuck and/or a prospect might do it. We all know how JR likes to recycle. WELCOME BACK MIKE COMMODORE.

by dgoose on Jul 22, 2009 8:24 AM EDT reply actions

I like it. =D

Except that 4-yr, $14.45mil contract he’s got, might be a problem…not sure there’s that much left in the tank.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 22, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree but how about Jan Hejda

Columbus blueliner Jan Hedja is 31 yrs old, 6’3" 229 lbs and was a +23 and make 2 mil a year.

by dgoose on Jul 22, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Wow that was some bad grammar.

Sorry for the grammar it’s still a little early for me. Let’s make that he was a +23 last year and his salary is 2 mil a year.

by dgoose on Jul 22, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Hejda’s not a bad suggestion … I just wonder what it would take. They won’t give away a 20+ minute guy who has a good contract for Eaves.

CanesCountry.com: An Eye On Carolina Hockey

by Cory Lavalette on Jul 22, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions

That would work. Those sure are all the right numbers.

Add to that, he had 168 hits, 157 blocked shots. Seids was 146/160 in reg season – so those are comparable.
He avg 22+ min TOI/game.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 22, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions

That sounds really interesting!

by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 22, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions

Good one. This trade actually benefits both teams. Babchuk could even develop his D (and attitude)under Hitchcock. Although Commodore was usually 2nd, as I recall, for BJacket d-men TOI . So they might value him more than we think.

by drifterscape on Jul 22, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Columbus has a wealth of young talent coming … Filatov, Mayorov … plus Brassard will be back from injury.

The two teams with the deepest D are Colorado (a staggering six guys earning at least $2.75M this year, plus Kyle Quincey) and San Jose (seven guys making at least $1.7M this year).

While JR seemingly covets Erhoff, he’s not really a defense-first, physical guy, IMO.

I have someone in mind … but I’ll wait until Bubba or I do something more on this.

CanesCountry.com: An Eye On Carolina Hockey

by Cory Lavalette on Jul 22, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Stop teasing us! You’re as bad as Rutherford!

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 22, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions

It’s forthcoming … Bubba and I each have weighed in on the best option.

CanesCountry.com: An Eye On Carolina Hockey

by Cory Lavalette on Jul 22, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Too bad Mike has that contract…. I would love to have him back.

by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 22, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions

No thanks. Mike is a great hockey personality, but not a great hockey player, or at least not great enough for the cost.

by C-Leaguer on Jul 22, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

One thing I would be curious to know is if our first round pick for next year may be in play. As I see things right now there are three teams from the East definitely out of the playoffs: Islanders, Thrashers, and Leafs. There are another three teams likely out: Buffalo, Ottawa, Panthers. That leaves nine teams and 8 playoff spots. I’d say the Canes should be better than the Lightning, even with the additions, and the Habs, who will likely struggle at times with the new pieces, and on par at least with the Rangers and the Devils and quite possibly the Caps. So, if we slot the Canes in at 5-7 in the east then they pick somewhere between 16 and 20. Lower if injuries occur or a few teams surprise, higher if other teams get injured or the Canes go deep in the playoffs.

The first round pick would be quite valuable to a team like Chicago, Philly, or Ottawa with cap issues because it doesn’t bring back any salary and it can be used to pick someone up at the deadline.

Add to it the Canes look pretty strong in the minors for the first time in forever. Additionally, if they make the trade now as opposed to at the deadline they can have a top tier guy all season, get out to a good start, not have to expend so much energy late in the season and potentially pack in a couple 100 more fans for 41 home games as opposed to the 15 home games after the deadline.

One last thing to remember: The Canes were in the black last year, but not until either game 6 of round 2 or game 3 of round 3. Packing in a few hundred extra fans over the course of a season could help this team turn a profit earlier in the playoffs, or be much closer to turning a profit even if they only get three home games from a first round playoff.

by C-Leaguer on Jul 22, 2009 9:43 AM EDT reply actions

Well thought out C-Leaguer. You’re points are excellent.

I’ve learned that Rutherford is a patient guy that seems to operate very well under the radar.

by Canes Pucknut on Jul 22, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Ouch!! I meant to write: Your points are excellent. Early morning brain cramps. Sorry!!

by Canes Pucknut on Jul 22, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions

No worries

What I don’t know is if Rutherford would even consider this move at this point in the season. First round picks are like gold for small market teams especially in hockey where entry level contracts are maxed out at 850K or so. I think it’s possible given what I put in the post above, but I still don’t know if JR would do it. They’ve been pretty lucky with guys like Terry and Bowman and McBain turning in to real finds in the second round.

by C-Leaguer on Jul 22, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions

Interesting to focus on the draft pick in the package. FWIW, last week ESPN.com’s Terry Frei picked the Canes to finish 5th in the East. I didn’t post t a link earlier because he intro’d his rankings with the comment that he picked the defending 3 division winners to win their divs again next season: BOS, WAS and PIT. SInce I remember it as the NJDevils winning the Atlantic Div (not PIT), his credibility unfortunately took a nosedive in my books.

JR had an extended interview on WRAL.com last week which was pretty dull, but he did comment that season ticket sales were down and corporate sales too. He did seem concerned about revenues. If sales are down after last season’s success and excitement, even with the 0% financing deal they’ve offered, then I suspect this year it will be tougher to break even.

In contrast, I think I saw the Capitals have something like a 3000-name waiting list for season tickets.

Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!

by Carolyn Christians on Jul 22, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions

I would think he tries to package some of the current roster. Teams realize in this (likely) declining salary cap world that draft picks are gold. If he trades some salary cap space ( ie we take on a bit more salary from a team that needs to shed some), we get the better player in the deal but the other team gets some needed cap space.

Another point, I have always believed that the best investment a team can make is in their scouting department. That is how teams like Detroit have remained so competitive for long stretches of time. It is even more important for teams like the Hurricanes to make the investment in scouting because we can’t afford to chase big name (high priced) talent. We need to bring alot of it up from within the organization. Perhaps we can find gold in Finland the way, say, Detroit seems to find gold in Sweden.

by Canes Pucknut on Jul 22, 2009 10:43 AM EDT reply actions