Jim Rutherford Flexes Muscles Once Again
by Bob Wage on Jul 27, 2009 8:00 AM EDT
65 comments
Peter Karmanos is a lucky man. Why? One reason is that the CEO has one of the best general managers in all of professional sports running his NHL franchise for him. The former two-time NHL executive of the year, Jim Rutherford, had another great offseason this summer and he claims he is not finished yet.
This has been a busy month for the Carolina brain trust. What exactly has the GM accomplished since July 1st?
- Signed Erik Cole to a two year deal
- Signed Chad LaRose to a two year deal
- Signed Tom Kostopoulos to a three year deal
- Signed Andrew Alberts to a two year deal
- Signed Tuomo Ruutu to a three year deal
- Traded Patrick Eaves and draft pick to Boston for Aaron Ward
Not too bad for a general manager who claimed he was going to wait until August before he dipped his toe into the free agent pool. And the most amazing part of all of this? After the completion of Frantisek Kaberle's contract buy out this week, (now confirmed), the Canes will be almost right on their self-imposed budget of 50 million dollars.
Not bad at all.
Even the most pessimistic of fans could argue that Rutherford has now assembled one of the strongest, most balanced lineups in franchise history, including the 2006 championship year. All the key components of the imposing front line group which dominated games late last season return. Keep in mind that when the Canes acquired Erik Cole in early March, they finished the season with a 12-3-2 record, one of the best in the league during that time frame.
One can mix and match the forward lines anyway you see fit. Flexibility is the key here.
- Staal, Ruutu, Cole
- Cullen, Whitney, LaRose
- Brind'Amour, Samsonov, Jokinen
- (Sutter), Kostopoulos, Walker
The defense has a balance of speed, puck-moving skill, and toughness.
- Corvo, Gleason
- Pitkanen, Ward
- Alberts, Wallin
Cam Ward, one of the league's top goalies, will return between the pipes. Michael Leighton will back him up.
But not only has management beefed up the club's starting roster by adding a couple of badly needed big bodies to the mix, the franchise now has better depth than ever before. Tough guy Tim Conboy has a one way NHL contract and will be kept close by, just in case the team needs his services.
Several players have two-way deals and are borderline big league players who could easily fill in if needed. Michael Ryan, Steven Goertzen, and Patrick Dwyer each have NHL experience and are capable forward fill-ins.
The defense is deeper yet. Recent acquisitions Jay Harrison and Zack Fitzgerald could be NHL ready. Prospects Brett Carson, Bryan Rodney, Casey Borer, and Jamie McBain will each be fighting for a spot in Raleigh as well.
And let's not forget youngsters Zach Boychuk, Drayson Bowman, Chris Terry, and Matt Pistilli. Each of these athletes were stars in the junior leagues, but now have something to prove at the next level.
The franchise undoubtedly looks stronger from top to bottom, than ever before. On top of all that, management has helped to create an overall positive environment, one where players are happy. Raleigh has gone from being an obscure NHL city to a place where professional hockey players desire to live and play.
The club is receiving more and more accolades from all across the sports world and as we pointed out before, was recently named by ESPN Magazine as being the second best overall franchise in all of major sports. The primary driving force behind it all? Jim Rutherford.
Some fans disregard the fact that the Canes are a small market team with less revenue than the big city, higher populated centers up north. They would like to see the team spend closer to the top of the league imposed salary cap. But even if a team has unlimited funds, spending to the cap limit has proven to be an unwise strategy in the past.
History has shown us that more often than not, big name signings on July 1st have become more of a burden than a boon for teams. Look at the clubs in Chicago, Ottawa, Philadelphia, and Boston, just to name a few. They are struggling to keep under the cap and they are making some decisions based more upon how it affects the cap, than what the team actually needs. For instance, if you leave yourself room under the cap and your team needs a more physical presence, then you can find that player and sign him. But if you spend to the cap limit every year, you could eventually end up running out of room to sign your own players who are due a raise when they come up for a new contract. (see Boston and Phil Kessel)
Rutherford seems to have mastered the "capology" aspect of managing a franchise, as he showed in this most recent deal with Boston. Somehow, he got Boston GM Peter Chiarelli to accept Patrick Eaves in the Aaron Ward deal, when the Bruins had no intention of keeping the young forward. The Hurricanes were able to add the physical presence on defense that they needed, as well as deduct the final two years and 3.1 million dollars that Eaves was owed.
Perhaps the most important reason a team should not spend to the cap is because they might need help later on in the season. Sometimes a key injury will derail a good team's chances to make the playoffs. Sometimes a new weakness will present itself during the year. But when the team has already maxed out the cap, it makes things very difficult to improve later in the season.
If the Hurricanes spent to the cap limit at the beginning of the 2005-06 season, they would not have had room to sign Doug Weight and Mark Recchi before the trade deadline. And if Carolina did not have the services of Weight and Recchi, they most likely would not have advanced past Buffalo in the Eastern Conference Finals, let alone win the Cup.
With 21 players presently signed for the roster, the Canes have a cap number of just under 54 million, (and a cash budget number of just over 50 million). That gives them some room to make another low cost addition or two, and save some room for a trade deadline deal later in the season if necessary.
Rutherford seems to have the roster and the team's finances exactly where he wants them.
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Great article.
It’s miraculous that every year with the Canes I get to sit back and enjoy every single move this team makes. They may not make sense to me when it happens, but then January rolls around and that decision makes sense.
As a paranoid sports fan anything that satiates my frequent ‘freak outs’ at moves the Panthers or Bobcats make helps, thank you Canes and thank you JR for giving me a ‘crock pot’ of a franchise. Each off season I set it and forget it only to be given a brilliant team every fall.
Look forward to seeing you at the RBC as many times as my wallet allows Hurricanes!
by James The Aussie on Jul 27, 2009 9:08 AM EDT reply actions
Thanks for the morning read, Bubba. No mention of the “pimp hand,” though :-)
Does the buyout process take several days and they just need to submit paperwork for it within that 48 hour post-arbitration window, or did this happen under the radar?
I look at Hossa and Chicago and thank goodness we didn’t make any huge moves like that. I don’t know who’s more to blame, Chi-town for not getting a physical or Hossa for not disclosing the fact.
He didn't disclose the injury?
I heard they were aware of the injury and chose not to force him through a physical, hoping they could heal him through rehab and rest.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
They didn’t give him a physical until after he signed, then determined he needed surgery. I think Hossa thought he could rehab it and be ready to go. Chicago decided on surgery.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 27, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The other thing to consider in this situation is how loaded Chicago is with forward talent. They’re probably better off with Hossa having surgery regardless, being out for a known quantity of time at the beginning of the season and healthy at the end than with having Hossa try to manage with just re-hab, decide at camp he needs the surgery (a.k.a. the Stillman/Kaberle route) or having him be 80% all season with a chance of not being available come playoff time.
I’ve got to find my pitchfork!
You sure have done your part to make this a great July in the Caniac nation, Bubba & Cory. thank you!
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Jul 27, 2009 9:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Great job Bubba. This afternoon I’ll have some more on this, specifically how Rutherford’s moves set the team up for success not only this year, but down the road.
I really don’t understand the people who think JR does a bad job.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 27, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, what gives?
There are a couple of regular bloggers here who are always trying to say JR is ………. not good at his job…..I’ll be damned if I understand that.
The Hurricanes have had depth at the forward position since the Cup season, but with the addition of Ward and Alberts, along with the guys coming up from Albany, they’ve got a pretty deep blue line now, too. I like having Kostopolous and Walker on the 4th line—guys who can actually play—and Conboy as the extra forward you can dress when you need to exercise the nuclear option.
“I really don’t understand the people who think JR does a bad job.”
+1. I don’t like the guy, but he sure knows how to run a hockey team! He’s the perfect GM for a team like Carolina. He’s so good at finding those guys like Whitney and Stillman (guys who score 60-80 points without ever getting noticed) and he seems to know which players to take a chance on, like Corvo and Pitkanen. Sure, Belanger or Eaves didn’t work out here, but those gambles work for him more often than not.
JR isn’t the most snazzy dresser…. (but not everybody can be Magic Juan ) But it is really hard NOT to like the way he has run the team lately….
They should let JR ring the Hurricane Warning Siren on opening night…..
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Jul 27, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Let’s not forget that eaves and belanger where part of deals that landed us corvo and gleason. And now you can add in aaron ward to that. That’s half our blueline. The only thing we gave up was a rental player (I thought Stiller would come back) and a primadona blueliner that doesn’t seem to be a team player no matter the team. In addition it got commies freshly inked and over inflated deal not to mention another contract off the books.
Those guys might not have worked out but he managed to make something of it
by CarolinaCanes on Jul 27, 2009 11:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You certainly covered the more mundane business aspects of the team and make it sound more appealing. As someone with a business background, I feel that most fans either overlook that aspect of the team or deride it. I think someone here called the Hurricanes a “budget team” with the implication that we cannot have a consistent, winning program because of it. But, that same “budget team” aspect and mentality—running the team as a business that must make enough money to be able to pay for itself in the long run so as to keep operating—has brought a Stanley Cup and two deep playoff runs within this decade. And it has done so while keeping ticket prices reasonable (I remember talking to some guys down here from Canada who said the ‘cheap seats’ at a Canadians game cost $110), and therefore, affordable to people like me and chrissy who probably couldn’t afford lower level seating with most other successful professional sports teams.
That would be three deep playoff runs by my count ncdavid,lol. I agree with everything you said, most people do not thimk of the business side of sports. Luckily JR does.
by CarolinaCanes on Jul 27, 2009 11:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think I also said Stanley Cup which should be considered a defacto long playoff run. But however you want to count it, I believe we’ve had a good measure of success.
by ncdavid on Jul 27, 2009 11:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
YaY I can post again but now I have nothing to say that hasn’t already been said. Go figure eh? =)
Live & Learn
Lol. Beats the alternative though ;)
by CarolinaCanes on Jul 27, 2009 11:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good thoughts. And I especially enjoyed the secret message that shows up when you mouse over the picture.
by hotchipsnsalsa on Jul 27, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions
Good article.
We do have a lot of depth. I was kinda hoping I’d get a chance at seeing some of the young guys play, but I’m sure there will eventually be an injury that allows them some playing time. I’m worried about Cole’s productivity for this year, but I do feel that Jokinen is going to have a great year. Ward should be serviceable if he stays healthy, but I honestly don’t think he’s at the level of a top 4 defenseman.
My one question: Babchuck wasn’t listed here. Do you think we’ll be able to trade him? Or is he going to play over in Russia or something?
"...Jim Rutherford, had another great offseason this summer and he claims he is not finished yet."
Did JR say there is something else coming as well?? Or is this the Kaberle buyout? Maybe a Babchuck trade to get a draft pick back.
The only thing I can see would be a depth defencemen. Unless he is talking trading for a top 9 guy??? I don’t know what eles can be done.
by CarolinaCanes on Jul 27, 2009 1:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks for the comments everyone. To answer the earlier questions-
C1026- I don’t know the particulars about the buy out, only that the club confirmed it will happen this week.
Pancanbra- Good point about leaving out Babchuk. He is still an asset, but if the team trades him for a pick, it’s a do-over. Hard to say exactly how much of an asset he is at this point until we see what happens.
Briney- In this interview, JR states the following-
"We could stop now and I could feel pretty comfortable going into camp and the start of the year," he said. "But now is the time where some funny things happen. Certain players kind of become available because the first month of free agency has almost gone by. Sometimes there are some veterans that may make some sense to give you some depth or that have won somewhere else.
"It gets to the point where it’s musical chairs," Rutherford continued. "If a player doesn’t jump in and grab one of those chairs by the time the season starts, there may not be a chair left. Some of these players are going to have to take a lower salary than they thought, so there may be a player who pops up that we like and can fit in."
He might have someone in mind.
GM of CanesCountry.com
I wonder who though…
It would seem like our roster or at least the depth chart is filled. Perhaps another D man?
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Hey Ivan
Just wanted to say…..I read every blog entry on this site. Your comments are always right on target. You know your hockey. Nice job……….keep it up. You too Pittsburgh Caniac.
Perhaps a D-man who could fit a 4/5 role to spell Ward and have Wallin as a healthy scratch or able to play to let someone with a minor injury sit out a night to heal rather than having to play?
by ncdavid on Jul 27, 2009 4:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would guess a fourth line center
Someone solid who could fill in on a higher line if need be and give Sutter the ability to play in the AHL all year next year. Mike Peca could be the guy. JR went hard after him a few years ago only to come up short at the deadline. Haven’t kept up with him too much since he went to Columbus, so I’m not real up on how well he played last year or if he’s in any condition to play this year. If not Peca I would say someone in his mold (defensively solid center who can play some PK and get about 8-10 minutes a night while not being a defensive liability).
He's probably healthy enough to give you the same kind of line he has the last 3-4 years.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not too keen on giving JR that much credit. while I do think he is one of the top 5 GM’s in the NHL, i think he also has alot of luck and situational karma on his side.
1. Injury has a cap caveat, so I disagree with the “wisdom” of saving room/cap space. you can afford a player that will help, sign him.
2. This so called success in the market has almost nothing to do with JR. the marketing of this franchise sucks. the promoition of this team sucks. the publicity we get and network time is dismal. about everyone here and many all over have agreed in the past that we have a shit marketing machine. the great hidden 700# gorilla? Is us, the fans. Also mostly raleigh itself as a fanbase. while I know and agree that there are fans from elsewhere, face it. raleigh butts fill the seats. There just isn’t any marketing to draw from charlotte or even Greensboro/triad area. It’s the raleigh Caniacs that keep this team on the map and the seats occupied. JR has jack to do with that, he got lucky with a pretty ravenous fan base….WHICH COULD BE VASTLY EXPANDED AT THE DROP OF SOME NICKELS!!!!
3.Players like the area for the same reason the rest of the residents like it, not anything JR has done. JR could pay me 3mill a year for 3 yrs to live in North Dakota, but North dakota will still suck and I’m moving at the end of the contract.
4.The draft has historicly been bad for these guys. Last 5 yrs or so they have done very well, maybe luck, maybe they have finaly learned how to work it. Time will tell.
So, bubba, my brother, i respectfully disagree. I would say JR is by far the luckiest GM alive, ever. I would say JR is among the top 5 active GM’s in the business. I wouldn’t place all the credit for the planets seemingly aligning on his shoulders, though. I like the enthusiasm, but is kinda my point. It’s the fan base and the area that made this team work out as much as good hockey. Even when this team sucks and dam they have sucked bad for stretches the last few years, we the fanbase still show up. JR trades for Anson carter, we still show up. Through it all we the fans give the life blood of money to this group. we keep it going.
BTW, is it me or would Seids name look just a whole helluva lot better in the line up instead of Wallin?
Keep up the cheerleader work, i’ll throw the cold water when I can.
A
Wow.
Last I checked good businesspeople make their own luck.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude I think that is a record for the use of the word suck in a CC post!
P6 maybe the coldwater should be direct upon one’s self?!?!
Lucky is winning the lottery. Even when this team has been bad the last few years we have missed the playoffs by only a few points. Think that several fanbases in the league would trade their experience for ours in a heart beat.
JR’s job is to have on-ice success. The team has done that as well as any low-rev team over the past decade. I don’t know how you can call a top-five GM (your statement) lucky.
As for Seidenberg … it would’ve been silly to pay him a lot on a multiyear deal with so many players knocking on the NHL door in Albany.
Also, fwiw, I’d rate JR No. 2 behind Holland.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 28, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Gee, cory, two of the best in the business.
Also, both very, VERY lucky. Jeezuz, Holland has the Bowman dynasty handed to him. scotty was a God as a coach, if he worked for your team, you were lucky and thanked God.
As for JR’s on ice success, he got ;lucky and put a weak team on the right path ahead of everyone else and got a cup. Awsome insight, lot’s of luck. Then the league caught up and we got pummeled the next couple years and set loser records second only to the Detroit Lions for christ sake. Last in my not so humble opinion again was alot of luck combined with a good vision. he lucked out on some recycled players and a couple trades. they worked out better than anybody could of hoped, thank God, because our frnchise guy Staal was puny and a none force at times and the captain flat out sucked (again with the “S” word). So again, JR get’s the gift of luck and the team plods on. since you mentioned him, Holland has the gift of being the GM of the top franchise in the NHL, your a stat guy, it’s undeniable. JR doesn’t have the resources Holland does, he’s been gambling since they got here. Outside of Mo’s first run JR did a pretty crappy job on hedging his bets and his gambles rarley paid off. Primeau is interesting in that we got rid of him before he went Tannabe on us. Again, luck. Just before the lockout, things started get a good luck streak going with the draft and then some good trades. I still don’t know that the Stillman/Commodosre for Corvo/Eaves was any stroke of geniousness. I’d of swapped brindy for Stillman at any point this year. Anyway, JR has been getting the benifit of the Hockey Gods last several years. sorry for those that this offends but THE CUP WAS A FLUKE. We got lucky. Hey, I’ll take it and it was an earned luck from the guys. Bottom line, we wern’t the best team that year, we were the winners. the next two years prove it and without doubt this team is far better than that team, don’t mean we are going to the big dance though. the biggest issue was that the system that worked in ‘06 was a trick play. It worked and we won. Lavi never got it through his moronic head that the team didn’t win on skill, they won on a game style that couldn’t work again. So the cretin kept at it and the team was pummeled into the place they actually earned on skill……….not in the top half of the league. so this year after an agonizingly long time JR get’s it. the coach is brain dead and has no clue what to do with this team. After two years this hardly qualifies as geniousness. Brings in Mo and shit starts to get better once the team realizes that we have to play a little def, too. so JR I think is thougtful, has vision and understands the business and the game. I also believe that he wasn’t lucky he’d be a bagger at Food Lion.
As for Seids, yea, way too much coin, but i liked him playing for us.
next three or so years will either solidify JR as a great GM or he will get stomped. I think the SOB has a genie and will do alright, which means our ‘Canes will do all right. So I gotta say, i wouldn’t bet money against JR or Holland any day of the week.
A
"Set loser records?"
What the hell are you talking about?
If we have Stillman instead of Brind’Amour, we don’t make the playoffs at all this year.
And no, I’m not willing to buy that we weren’t the best team in ‘06. In a single-elimination tournament, maybe. But we won four consecutive best-of-seven series. That can’t be a fluke.
At some point, you have to give credit where credit is due. Success doesn’t happen by accident.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Only team to ever not make the PO’s 2 yrs in a row after winning the cup. It’s disgraceful and a whopper of a loser record. Also shows just what a fluke the cup win was.
Like I said, sorry to not preach the gospel here, but it’s the way I see it. As well as a fair amount folks outside of Raleigh, like the rest of the hockey world.
Hey i’d rather be lucky once than consistantly bad, like Toronto or the Isles. The idea of being lucky may seem bad, but it isn’t. I’m actually not trying to be negative, just realistic.. You create a whole new rule set after the lockout, one team will be better at the new game than the rest. Once the other teams catch up and parity is restored you see where the teams stand. we played the new game out of the gate pretty well. Then we bought some awsome exper. in recchi and weight and rented them for a few months. Anyone that thinks getting Recchi and Weight wasn’t luck is blind. without them, the team doesn’t go all the way. So the team, isn’t good enough with out buying in some help and it was just enough to win. the help leaves, the cretin coach stays and these guys set a loser record. Not sure what you disagree with, ’em’s the facts.
I’m glad as hell for the cup win. I just thinks it’s a pretty loud statment when you can’t even finish above 500 the next two years running. that’s the veryt definition of fluke.
A
No, the Recchi and Weight deals weren't about luck.
They were about working the phones and trading one type of assets (draft picks) for another (veterans.) If you’re going to discount the successes of any team that makes a trade once the season starts, you’re gonna count out a LOT of championship teams.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
43-33-6 is a losing record? That was their record in 2007-08 when they missed the playoffs by one game. They were incredibly lucky that year too. :-)
Why is being smart enough to rent Recchi and Weight considered luck? Any team in the league could have rented them, but we did. If Buffalo would have gotten them instead of us, who wins that series? I suppose Buffalo was just unlucky that they were too cheap to sign a rental player before the trade deadline. what a crock.
There is some luck involved in every championship, and there is some hard work and guts that go into it as well. I doubt Kevyn Adams, who played with a broken hand, and Doug Weight, who had a dislocated shoulder, and the other injured players who put their guts on the line during those playoffs felt like it was all just luck.
As far as the rest of the hockey world agreeing with you, some outside entity calling itself ESPN reported that this was the number one franchise in the NHL. So obviously everyone in the outside hockey world does not agree with you.
I have no problem with your negativity and hate and that is well and good if that is the way you see it, but some of what you are calling “facts” are way off base. Plus, you can’t have it both ways. If all the success was just luck, then all the losing times were just bad luck.
GM of CanesCountry.com
+1000000
Oh yeah – take that, AP!
signed,
Little Mary Sunshine
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by hockeymomof2 on Jul 28, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Bubba, you are absolute like correct. so either you all left the door open as you got off the little yellow bus or i ain’t ‘splainin’ it right.
Last try:
Pick up Weight and Recchi……what are the odds two players of that caliber are available and both are gettable by the same team=luck
Liken that to drafting crosby and malkin=luck
lavi is/was a pos. he is now an unemployed pos. His method has never gotten above a mear PO appearence, he has never duplicated any success he has had and he has alienated every team he has ever been with. riding a loser coach to the cup=luck
he still ain’t got a job, the guy is a schmuck.
So we are in violent agreement that luck IS a factor. I am just saying that it is a key factor.
As for ESPN saying that the ‘canes are the #1 franchise… how? Most sellable? They aren’t the number one grossing franchise, they aren’t the cup winners, they aren’t an original 6 with a history, they have shit for marketing, what cretin came up with that little stat? Last i heard hockey was dead in the south………that was from the same assholes at espn, btw. The same crew that didn’t schedule any extra games in ’07 for the previous cup winners.
So in closing, we agree on most of the basic facts:
1- there is always luck involved in a good trade or a cup run.
2-to some extent carolina has dam sure gotten it’s share of the lucky shamrock.
3-The team has worked it’s ass off with the tools it’s got at it’s disposal.
Where we disagree is that i think that that is the teams legacy. The point you were making is the point of consistancey. the ’Canes have none, i defy anyone to counter that.
if this team can put it’s luck/success on the ice in a consistant manner, they will move beyond fluke and just got lucky. Until then, I respectfully disagree, the cup was a fluke and JR has been lucky as hell as of late. This has not always been the case with JR.
Witrh all that hateful angst aside, the team they have assembled is by far the best team this franchise has ever mustered. while there was the usual bit of luck, there has also been a consistant drum about the moves. The recycled players turned into term contract players, the draft finaly has turned into a positive. The venu is contractually locked down dam near forever (maybe a double edged sword, but….), the fan base is ravenous just waiting for some marketing to expand. There is alot of positives, I am not a death talker. I just know that consistant, methodical progress always works. Until recently this franchise has not been consistant in any way, shape or form.
make a PO run 3 yrs in a row, follow up a cup win with at least a respectable showing, market the best dam team in the league when you can claim that honor, expand your fan base at every possible opportunity, do more than make risky trades, do more than follow a simple budget.
Look, believe it or not, i am a rabid ‘Cane fan. Been a diehard NHL fan for 40yrs. was a Detroit fan for most of them, so I know a loser when i see it and was also given the chance to see winners. I moved to this area a couple years before the ’Canes moved to the Triad (man Ice Caps hockey was a dismal substitute for NHL hockey!!!) So I ponied right up upon the arrival of the reformed Whale and claimed them as my home team. I critique them as I would any other team I sunk money into. I’m hard on the franchise, they are inconsistant and deserve it.
May help, may not…..
A
I’m sorry, but I just don’t get your logic at all. Would you really suggest that a monkey could pick roster moves and coaching hires and draft picks just as successfully by being lucky?
Pick up Weight and Recchi……what are the odds two players of that caliber are available and both are gettable by the same team=luck
It’s not about “odds.” It’s about a knowledgeable GM who fostered a relationship with other executives and saved enough future assets to acquire multiple present assets. This happens every single year, and it happens with better players than Weight and Recchi. Much better, even.
Liken that to drafting crosby and malkin=luck
Wrong. This is about something called “scouting.” Had the Penguins drafted Bobby Ryan or Jack Johnson or Benoît Pouliot instead of Crosby or Cam Barker or Andrew Ladd or Blake Wheeler instead of Malkin, I somehow doubt they end up where they are today.
lavi is/was a pos. he is now an unemployed pos. His method has never gotten above a mear PO appearence, he has never duplicated any success he has had and he has alienated every team he has ever been with. riding a loser coach to the cup=luck
Wait, really? Didn’t his “method” win a Stanley Cup?
As for ESPN saying that the ‘canes are the #1 franchise… how? Most sellable? They aren’t the number one grossing franchise, they aren’t the cup winners, they aren’t an original 6 with a history, they have shit for marketing, what cretin came up with that little stat? Last i heard hockey was dead in the south………that was from the same assholes at espn, btw. The same crew that didn’t schedule any extra games in ’07 for the previous cup winners.
The eight major categories that make up the Ultimate Standings were created based on feedback from fans about what they want most from their favorite teams (click here for a more detailed account of the method to our madness.) The categories:
Bang For The Buck (BNG): Wins during the past three years (regular season plus postseason) per revenues directly from fans, adjusted for league schedules.
Fan Relations (FRL): Openness and consideration toward fans by players, coaches and management.
Ownership (OWN): Honesty and loyalty to core players and local community.
Affordability (AFF): Price of tickets, parking and concessions.
Stadium Experience (STX): Quality of arena and game-day promotions as well as friendliness of environment.
Players (PLA): Effort on the field and likability off it.
Coaching (CCH): Strength of on-field leadership.
Title Track (TTR): Championships already won or expected in the lifetime of current fans.
Oh, and ESPN couldn’t exactly have scheduled any games for the Hurricanes in ‘07…they haven’t had TV rights since ’04.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
While I do not really agree with Paladin on most of his points- drafting Malkin and Crosby had a lot more to do with luck then scouting. You did not need a scout to tell you those guys were the best picks.
At the time Weight and Recchi were great experienced players at the time we picked them up. While I think its off base to say luck alone brought them to us(obviously being under the cap, having assets in prospects, good contacts by JR, and of that JR savvy did a lot), some luck was involved.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 29, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Really?
So you think they just stopped at the NHL Scouting rankings and picked ’em up? I somehow doubt it.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
thats not what I said
I said you did not need a scout to tell you what the pick was- its was obvious. The Penguins getting both those players was more about luck then scouting.
No one in their right mind would have picked Ladd over Malkin or Johnson over Crosby. Now if you want to argue THAT point- then fine… go right ahead, but you know what I mean by what I said. Quit being so nit-picky and actually try to understand the words that you read. It would save us all a lot of reading and typing.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 29, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I did read what you said.
You said they simply got lucky in selecting the “obvious picks.” I’d say that there is never an obvious pick in the draft. With the entire pool to choose from, I’d say not only is it easy to make a wrong choice, and it’s happened over and over. Look at the Hurricanes’ drafting. Plenty of good players we missed on.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I never said they simply got lucky in selecting the picks… I said some luck was involved. That is the problem here- you attack based off of one point or one word without looking into what one might actually be saying.
If you know anything about the history of the 2005 draft you know exactly how they got lucky there. Whats the chances of 2 high caliber players on the level of Malkin and AO being there in 2004? Some luck involved again… They trade up to #1 and got Fluery because they thought we would pick him over Staal(aside from the astute GM points we have pointed out in the JR discussion… still ) SOME luck was involved there.
The Hurricanes have never had a #1 pick. Most of the “obvious” picks are #1’s with the exception of Malkin. It was very easy to not make the wrong choice here… and it was obvious. You can think what you want… but if you really would have wasted resources vigorously scouting out Ladd when you knew you had the #2 pick, then you deserve to lose the money.
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 29, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Gee MP, I like the the little closed world u live in and think only espn can have broadcast rights. real fancy quotes and dissection, but you apparently left the door to the little bus open. find it, go home.
A
As an explanation anyoner that disregards the pick up of weight and Recchi not as alucky fluke is an idiot. so yes, i am calloing you ablind idiot. Most moves involcve some luck, that move in particular involved a ton of luck. was JR smart enough to pounce? Yup! But there was years of things in action to set up the situation for that trade that had squat to do with anybody, it was a lucky thing period. If you are too shallow and blind to see that, you are not capable of an intelligent conversation about any of this. I would suggest you may appear to some as a troll. I’m negative and a prick, you aren’t negative.
A
no problem A, someone has to keep us chuckleheads in line. :-)
I won’t argue with him being one of the top 5 GM’s. That’s pretty good I think. I also agree that marketing could be better, as we talked about a lot here last year.
A lot of the success is based upon luck? I don’t know about that. The Canes have had a ton of injuries the past few years, you could say that they have also had some bad luck.
be cool.
GM of CanesCountry.com
Checking in from my home base at last. Confirmed I have games 4 – 7 vs NJD waiting on the DVR. Watched the AWard press conference from Friday. He’s a regular chatty cathy, ain’t he? And quite proud of himself too – For instance, I thought it was “generous” of him to let Cam keep Wardo. I’ll admit he looked very GQ (in an appealing way) with the soft eyes, beard shadow and the tan. But then the shirt was maybe one shade of yellow away from Dwight Shrute. All he needed was a bad clip-on tie. Mixed signals everywhere!!!
(And who was it that thought the last day or so that JR deserves ciriticism for the way he dresses!!! Holy cow – he’s like my uncle who worked for Westinghouse for 40 years and takes about 2 years to wear the new clothes in his closet. It’s so endearing! Gives him a teddy bear mask to cover the shark-brain that’s working between his ears.)
So now that I can read this dialogue in living color – the coolest thing is the ability for the SCOC folks to stop by and argue their point of view on this intriguing deal w/AWard. We saw a little of that when Alberts and TommyK signed earlier with their fans.Nice job by the SBNation crew to set the network up to really facilitate this kind of cross-pollenated fan discussion.
66 days 21 hrs and change
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
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