CAN THIS NEWEST VERSION OF THE HURRICANES BEAT PITTSBURGH?
by KenRab on Jul 28, 2009 4:17 PM EDT
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PrintIt is a simple question. The team plays to win the Cup. We go to the games to see our team raise the Silver Chalis. The current champs hail from Pittsburgh and they won the cup this year in impressive fashion. More to the point, they won by ripping our team. Clearly, we had some key injuries. Pittsburgh was healthier but that really underscores our lack of depth and to a larger extent our problem matching up with that team. Jim Rutherford said after that series that he liked our chances against them if we were healthy. While I agree, that the series would have been closer, I still believe that Pittsburgh would win that series(even if we were healthy) 7 out of 10 times. So, what needed to be improved to make for a better matchup against Sidney Crosby and Malkin?
First let me say, I do not believe you can completely stop those guys if they are motivated. Second, they are a team that can be beaten. To beat Pittsburgh, you have to be nasty, tight on defense, fast to the puck, finish off Crosby and Malkin every time they touch the puck, great on special teams, get team scoring that is fed by the defense, and intense back checking from the forwards.
OFF SEASON TASK LIST FOR JR
- INCREASE NASTY- addition of Aaron Ward, Kotstopolous, and Alberts.......grade A.....mission accomplished.
- TIGHTEN UP DEFENSE-Babchuck out, Aaron Ward in, Alberts in, Seids out......grade B+.....mission accomplished.
- SPEED TO THE PUCK-We already have the speed guys, they just need to have a little more time(created by the Nasty defense finishing checks).........grade A.......resign Ruutu, Cole, LaRose.....mission accomplished.
- FINISH OUR CHECKS-Added Kotstopolous(most hits for Montreal), Added big hitters in Ward and Alberts............grade B+...........mission accomplished.
- SQUEEZE MORE FROM SPECIAL TEAMS- special teams seems to be about chemistry and positioning.......jury is out on the chemistry part, I am confident the coaching staff will continue the improvement ,we saw second half of last year, into a full season. grade B.....Mission PUSH.
- DEFENSE FED SCORING- We still have Corvo and Pitkanen. With a couple of stay home defensmen. Balance baby...........balance.............grade B+ ...........mission accomplished
- INTENSE BACK CHECKING FROM THE FORWARDS.......we got the bodies back to do it. We have seen Cole, Ruutu, LaRose, Sami, Eric all do it............they can do it again with special emphasis from coaching staff.....................grade A.........mission accomplished.
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What JR did was not to make his team better, he built the team to beat Pittsburgh. He liked his chances before, now I think he would bet on his team. So, can the Canes beat Pittsburgh now? My answer, ................................on paper......................absolutely...............
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What do you guys think?
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great poll. Its never too early to plan for next April!
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 28, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions
I think the team last year could have beaten Pittsburgh had they not been worn out. That said, that was before Fluerry gave up only two goals over the final two games of the Stanley Cup finals. For all that the Canes have done, and it is a lot and very good, if Fluerry has made that step from not just top ten goalie to Vezina Candidate, it will be difficult for anyone to beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs. At the very least JR has helped the Canes stay even.
That’s exactly what I’ve said. The Canes came into the playoffs on a roll, but had to play the two most physical teams in the East before they met the Pens. The Pens meanwhile got better as the playoffs went on. If the Canes had played the Pens in the first round, I think the Canes win. In the second round after having played NJ in the first, it would have been very close and could have gone either way. In the third round after having played two grueling 7 game series against NJ and then Boston, the Canes simply had nothing left in the tank to compete with the Pens. They would have lost to anyone they played that round most likely. Probably even Montreal (and that’s bad!).
That’s where I’m loving the improvements here, though. The team is getting bigger and tougher. That’s what we need to be able to play those tough games and come through in better shape.The Canes are no longer the soft team with a bunch of small skill players that will get pounded on every game. They are now the team that will do the pounding. Candy Canes no more. This is the Nasty Canes.
There’s going to be a lot of fans of other teams shocked when the Canes play them this year when they realize we’ve changed more than they thought.
by Pirate Caniac on Jul 30, 2009 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget the playoff mentality they played with for the last 2-3 months. So did the Penguins, and I can’t say for sure we would have won if the players hadn’t been exhausted, but I can’t see it going in a sweep.
The Pens were a strong team – they beat Detroit. Will they be as strong this year? Time will tell. ButI do believe the Canes are as strong as they’ve ever been. Another forward or a big jump from the prospect pool would be icing on the cake.
BTW: 64 days 10 hr to to Oct 2
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 30, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
The Penns have lost a several players from their D corp, arguably their best two D men in the postseason
Two straight deep playoff runs is bound to take a toll at some point.
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 30, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, the Pens didn’t come limping into the playoffs, but the Canes were far more in playoff mode than the Pens were when they started. The Pens were actually dropping down to where they almost fell out of playoff contention before a push in the end. It took them awhile to get worked up and going at full speed. Playing their two biggest rivals did that before the Canes.
I’m not saying that the Canes would have rolled over the Pens. It would have been a close series, probably 6 or 7 games. Just I feel the Canes would have been much more likely to have won then because they had the fuel still left to dig deep down and use to pull out the victories they’d need. Their speed would have been more equal like in the regular season where they split, rather than a fast Pens team against the slow, beat up Canes that we saw. They had none of their magic left.
As for how strong the Pens will be this year? It’s hard to tell. As Swenksta said they’ve lost a few, added a few. You would think they will make the playoffs again, but then who would have thought they would have come close to missing them this last year only to squeak in then turn around and win it all?
I kind of prefer the Canes being an underdog, though. So much more fun to leave fans of other teams wondering what happened.
by Pirate Caniac on Jul 30, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll always root for the Underdogs! (Even those with a Stanley Cup ring)
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 30, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too! It comes from being originally from Cleveland, and all the years of cheering for the Browns, Indians, Cavs, and now Canes. So many times so close over the years, but also lots of time in the basement. The Canes are the only ones that have delivered a championship for me during my lifetime (so far, at least).
by Pirate Caniac on Jul 30, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Cardiac Kids
I went to high school north of Akron and like veryone at the time, Iwas a huge Browns fans (the Cardiac Kids) around 1980. Brian Sipe, Lyle Alzado, Gregg Pruitt…For baseball, I was born into a family of Yankee fans, going back to 1920’s. Don’t follow them so much now like I did in the 70’s. (the Reggie Jackson era)
This past playoff season for the Canes reminded me so much of being a Browns fan back then.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 30, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Awesome! I lived there in the late 70’s and 80’s in the suburbs east of Cleveland, in Painesville. Was a huge Browns fan and followed them very closely until the move to Baltimore. That really killed pro football for me even though the NFL gave a team back, besides all the other BS you see anymore.
Remember the Indians having a special event where Springsteen played a concert before the game around his Born in the USA era and people could stay for the game for free. Sold out concert, but nobody stayed for the game.
by Pirate Caniac on Jul 31, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha...
That last part is really sad.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I also agree that this team was really worn down. Had Pitt played Boston, Crosby would have been in the fetal position half the time. But in reality, I think this team could beat them if:
1) The refs call a fair game: I cannot recall how many times BS penalties were called against us for the guins.
2) Good special teams (PP & PK): When on the PP- SCORE!!!!! And kill a very lethal Pitt PP, which is hard to do, but with a guy like Aaron Ward, he immediately adds physicality and brains in the equation, which can help in covering a guy like Malkin.
3) The Canes have at least home ice advantage, and not play two 7 game series in a row against NJ and Boston: This is self explanatory.
4) Hockey God’s Luck: Ours ran out against the guins (remember game 1 where Staal couldn’t tie the game by pushing the puck in? Yeah, that’s what I mean).
If we can do that, we can beat the tuxedo birds. By the way, nice post Ken.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
I agree with all of the above.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose this is the only forum to talk about the officiating without someone getting suspended...........
I really try to be impartial when it comes to the way the games are called. I found myself singling out the calls and lack there of during the Boston and Pittsburgh series. I, for the first time, thought perhaps the league was influencing ….. To me, Hockey is the only great professional sports league that doesn’t have ……….steroids, cheating, and everyone saying it is a business all the damned time. These guys play at a high level nearly every shift. Show me that in the NBA….or MLB….
The big concern to me is that the outcome of a hockey game can really rest on a no call or a bad call and most fans may not even notice the blown call. Hell, like Malkin and Sid need any help…..
Good points all……..
Like I've been saying
Cindy, Muttenhead and the rest got the cup.
I will never say they won it.
If money's the root of all evil then why do so many
churches brow beat their members for more?
Too close to call
I think in order to beat Pittburgh in a 7 game series, Staal needs Crosby’s Malkin. Staal can’t provide the scoring in a 7 game series on his own. This team still lacks a legitimate second scoring threat. Those who do not realize that this team could have just as easily lost to NJ in 6 games rather than make it all the way to the ECF are kidding themselves. Heck, without the late season push, they might have missed the playoffs entirely. I think JR has done a great job at making this a playoff team for next season, assuming they stay healthy. But to put them right up there with the Stanley Cup Champs is a bit much. IMO they will need a little more lady luck (albeit a bit less than last season) to pull off the same feat.
I think the wild card in all of this might be the coaching staff. Maybe a full season with this coaching staff will put the team in a better position down the stretch and thus not wear the team down so much at the end. If that is the case, JR will have the opportunity to add extra scoring punch at the deadline much like he did in 2006. At any rate, the pressure will no doubt be on beginning October 2nd to get out of the gates early in what I think is a much improved Southeast overall.
To some degree, the need for the "push" could well have hurt us...
To the extent that the team played “worn out” towards the end of the playoffs, one might imagine that a few extra “rest games” for our best players (whether they suited up or not) could have done them some good. Instead, we had to push 150% every single night for the last half of the season. What did Cam have to do, 34 games straight? I understand the guys need to keep playing and stay sharp, but I bet locking up a playoff spot quicker would certainly not hurt.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 29, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting....
I am not one of the people that think that we have to have another big scorer. I am sure that if you ask people in Tampa how successful StLouis and LaCavallier have been…you would hear a lot of people saying get rid of that scoring duo and get a team. I am very interested to see how we matchup physically now. Like in baseball and football, I have always thought a good defense could neutralize a good offense. Just my 2 cents…..
Gotta believe that late season push took something out of our guys.....
I think JR was right……..if healthy, we had an equal or better team.
beat pitt?
well, of course we could! many reasons, we’re better, tougher, and deeper! but we have
another advantage. they’re not as good! also, it might not be the right question. the chances of meeting them in the playoffs, are pretty slim. any thoughts on beating the caps?
Not to mention the home-ice advantage we have. I don’t care what anybody says, ours is better.
by InfectedFerret on Aug 9, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Cane's
Cane’s are gonna do it this year baby.
robert
Improvements: will any of the prospects make the team?
My take on this depends on if JR adds another D or FW b4 the season starts. if we add new
FW- boychuk or bowman still could make the squad (i really liked their games, and they’ve
had some time to grow and get better…) if we don’t add D Carson WILL make the team (i
think???) what do ya think?
chemistry chemistry chemistry. I think this Canes team is built a lot on chemistry. Think about it, were never picked to be as good as we are. Players typically have their career years here. Most of our players were aquired by having bad years elsewhere, or career not taking off like it should (ruutu for ladd), or for whatever reason. Whitney, i believe he was either waived or bought out at some point. “uh oh corvo”, “you cant win with pitkanen”, weve heard it all, but the core of our room works No one ever bitches on this team (exclude babs….thats another argument), everyones always “professional” about it. Thats the hidden value in playing a guy like Brindy when everyone else is calling for his head. His points at the least even out the +/-, he brings faceoffs, smarts and chemistry. It shows a loyalty to the players and the players all seem happy or again “pro” about their position. Management deserves a lot of credit. We all seem unanimous that JR is a genius. The locker room is a tough thing to measure when asking if we could beat pitt or not. Up till the first game of the series no one thought we could beat Boston. A lot of teams change their core year after year, anything can happen but I think Montreal has a long way to go. It takes years to build a core. Here its been Staal, Cole, Brindy, Whitney, LaRose, Wallin, Cullen, Wesley and Kabs for at least 4-5 years. Thats a core thats measured by friends……chemistry.
Can we beat Pitt? I dont know, its why we play the games…….But I know im not scared of anybody in the league!
sorry bout the long post…..kinda ramblin here!
I don't disagree with most of this...
But points have a chance of helping out your +/-. Unless you’re getting tons of garbage points on the PP, they all go into the black side of that ledger.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
You forgot to mention Ward
Two points: if Ward doesn’t injure his back in game 7 against Boston and if Staal doesn’t shank the puck off his stick in game 1 of ECF we have a good chance against the Penns. Remember Rutuu was a non-factor in the ECF, and although he didn’t light up the scoresheet in the playoffs, he does a great job at finding ways to contribute on the ice. No one was able to make that big hit to get our guys on their toes and we spent the entire series on our heels. Not to take anything away from Malkin and Crosby, but all our mistakes ended up in the back of the net as Cam wasn’t able to bail us out.
I certainly feel confident that we could make a better showing if we had been healthy.
There is going to be a great rivalry for years to come b/t The Penns and the Canes. Ward vs Fluery, Staal vs Crosby, Staal vs Staal, etc. I think now we have the size and grit to lean on the Penns forward more as they come in our zone. We will definitely be a less pleasant team to play against. I wouldn’t be surprised to see several fights early in the season, just to send the message to the league that we will not be pushed around.
by SouthernHockeyFan on Jul 30, 2009 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t mean to stir things up, but I know for a fact Alberts can’t skate with Malkin and I don’t see Ward slowing him down either. But it ought to be interesting to see.
Really I think Carolina’s first target should be Washington in the division, that’s more of a regular season target. No guarantee that Pittsburgh and Carolina will see each other again, but you guys will have plenty of chances to de-throne the current kings of the Southeast.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
I agree…
However, can you really say that the Canes are not better off then they were last year? If we ARE better off, are we good enough to beat the Pens? Caps? or hell… even the Panthers?
I think so…
by packpigskinfan25 on Jul 31, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I also doubt Alberts could skate with Malkin, but I still think Ward would be able to tie him up. I think many are discounting Ward, but the guy had a great year and was very good in the playoffs.
While he isn’t young, the guy can still play a little D.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Honestly...
I don’t think we’ll be hoping to have our third line on the ice too much when Malkin is out there.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
One would think….
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 31, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think we’ll be hoping to have our third line on the ice too much when Malkin is out there
Good point.
In that case, the Canes top 4 defensemen got burnt by Malkin and Crosby and haven’t significantly changed/upgrade and I don’t see any of them neutralizing the Penguins’ big guns.
I understand Carolina had some fatigue by that point in the playoffs (something I’ve seen in the comments here a lot), but everyone’s tired/banged up by then. Pittsburgh just played 6 games with physical Phily and 7 games with a tough opponent in Washington — so it’s not like they were 100% fresh either.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Sorry.
Washington is soft. We got our asses kicked in the early rounds) particularly by Boston. We didn’t win so much as we surprised.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
* third pairing
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I was feeling pretty good about our chances against the Pens until I found out they signed Wade Brookbank today.
You’re kidding, I take it? Is he going to drop gloves with Scotty Walker or Chuck Norris? Maybe Tommy K?
That’s a strange signing for them. Must be cheap.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 31, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He was definitely joking, hockeymom :)
Brookbank will be in Wilkes-Barre and barring an apocalyptic string of injuries won’t sniff the NHL ice in Pittsburgh.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Actually, it’s she. But I wasn’t kidding, at least not about the part where I said they’d signed him. ;-)
by Jamie Kellner on Jul 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Excuse me on the he/she issue, ma’am. (I was born and raised in the South too, gotta display my manners, huh?)
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Okeydokey. Enjoy. (We traded Brookbank and another loser to TB for Jussi Jokinen in Feb, if you like to keep track of player’s provenances. JR scored a nice one there.)
Any chance you guys are looking for a RW in Pittsburgh? Bertuzzi’s apparently in discussions with 3 East conf teams, all US.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Jul 31, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Any chance you guys are looking for a RW in Pittsburgh? Bertuzzi’s apparently in discussions with 3 East conf teams, all US.
Well Talbot is hurt (bum shoulder that he played through) and will be out for the first month or two so the Penguins could use a Top 6 forward.
But I think there’s about a 0%chance the Pens turn to Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi has the reputation of not being a good teammate, not having a good attitude and just his personality wouldn’t fit with the young, hard-working Penguins.
Plus Pittsburgh doesn’t have too much room under the cap and they want to keep a little cushion to pick up someone at the trade deadline or give the freedom to make a trade if someone gets hurt if they need to.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
and perhaps his statement about these discussions with 3 teams are in the same category as “the Rangers are eager to get Babchuk”, according to Babchuk. Smoke and mirrors.
Let's go Canes!
Hakkaa Paalle!
by Carolyn Christians on Aug 1, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 31, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
i really like
what jr did this off season. tk and alberts seem like hard nose players, and i love having ward back. i think we were much too soft on the pens in the ecf, albeit with ruutu out. if the canes can be much more physical against the pens, then yes we can definately beat them home ice or not.
by brass bonanza on Aug 14, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel we proved that during the regular season…
During the off season it just so happened to be two of the hottest teams in the EC beating up on each other, when the Canes had more of a beating then the Pens.
Not to say that the Pens won just because of that, but it IS a factor into the equation that causes “flukes” in all championships.
Not to say that the Pens Cup win was a fluke… but it def was not a strong favorite going into the playoffs.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 15, 2009 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I meant regular season... not off season.
by packpigskinfan25 on Aug 15, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions
i was just thinking that when ruutu went down and cole was injured the physical game almost disappeared. if we see the pens again in the playoffs and there are injuries, god forbid, there will be other “nasty” players to take their places. i know that the canes handled them in the regular season, but ruu was there and healthy. i really think his play disrupted the pens stars game to the point of almost neutralizing their skills due to having to look over their shoulders for him. that was why he was targeted in game one of the ecf.
by brass bonanza on Aug 15, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
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