Tidbits: Statistical Milestones & Others Worth Mentioning
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 12:19 PM EST
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PrintIf you analyze the statistics for this season's Carolina Hurricanes, most of them will confirm why the team sits at the bottom of the NHL standings. We'll get to some of those, but there are also some surprising positive statistics and career numbers worth mentioning just past the halfway point of the 2009-10 campaign.
- Heading in to tonight's matchup against Tampa Bay at the RBC Center, goalie Cam Ward is just one win shy of matching Arturs Irbe's Hurricanes record of 130 wins. Ward has won his 129 games in 257 games played, whereas Irbe got to his total in 309 appearances. The bad news for Ward? He leads the NHL in losses with 17. If Carolina continues to struggle, it's conceivable he could surpass Kevin Weekes' franchise record of 30 losses from 2003-04. Despite the losses, Ward has a .907 save percentage — good for a tie for 25th in the league. He's also tied for the league lead in assists by a goalie with three.
- Here's some good news from the Rat Pack: Patrick Dwyer has no penalty minutes in 23 games (303:13 of ice time) and graduate Brandon Sutter has just two PIMs in 38 games (631:05). The Islanders' Frans Nielsen is the only player in the league who can boast a similar stat with just two penalty minutes in 42 games played (692:49 minutes played).
- Back to the career numbers, Eric Staal is just two goals shy of Jeff O'Neill's franchise record of 176 goals. Ray Whitney is also making a move up the career stats list. He needs just five points to match Sami Kapanen's 314 for a tie for fifth in Hurricanes history.
- Joni Pitkanen is not only putting together one of his best seasons, he could be on pace to make it one of the statistically best by a defenseman in Carolina history. Pitkanen is logging a league-high 27:00 minutes per game, and his 25 points are tied for 19th in the NHL among blueliners. His 23 assists are tied for 11th in the league — and just 15 shy of the Carolina record 38 Frank Kaberle had in 2005-06. Kaberle had 44 points that season, tied for most in franchise history with Sandis Ozolinsh (2000-01) and Sean Hill (1999-2000). Pitkanen has had two three-assist game in his past three, and if he can at least maintain his current pace — and stay healthy — he is in line to break the team record for points by a d-man.
- Injured defenseman Joe Corvo still ranks eighth in the NHL in TOI per game at 25:33, including logging 4:56 of power play (11th) and 3:37 of shorthanded (3:37) time. Pitkanen is tied for 20th in the NHL in PP time (4:18), while Tim Gleason is T-23rd in shorthanded time at 3:23 per game.
- At forward, Staal's 20:42 is 16th among forwards and his 4:18 of power play time matches Pitkanen for a tie for 20th among all players. Whitney is averaging 4:01 PP TOI, good for a tie for 29th.
- Rookie Brett Carson has proven he's ready to hold a spot on an NHL blueline. The 17:49 of ice time — though in just 19 games — is eighth among NHL rookies.
- Gleason's 62 penalty minutes rank fourth among NHL defensemen.
- Captain Rod Brind'Amour has performed better as of late, but he still ranks last in the NHL in plus/minus at minus-22. He is still among the league's best faceoff men at 58.4 percent (sixth). Staal, who has played more wing of late, ranks tied for last in the NHL in faceoffs (41.9) among those who qualify with Colorado rookie Matt Duchene.
- Staal is averaging .63 assists per game, tied for 23rd in the league this season. His 150 shots is tied for 28th in the league despite playing just 35 games.
- Andrew Alberts continues to punish opponents, ranking tied for 15th in the league with 137 hits. Fellow blueliner Aaron Ward is 30th (115) and is also tied for 18th in blocked shots with 93.
- Jussi Jokinen, widely considered the league's top shootout man, has four tallies in the shootout this season (T-sixth). His six goals in divisional games are tied for 20th in the league.
- Whitney has 13 goals outside of the division. That is tied for 25th in the league.
- Matt Cullen and Tom Kostopoulos rank among the best shorthanded scorers in the league. Both have two SHGs (tied for fourth in the NHL) and three points (tied for third).
- Zach Boychuk, who was just reassigned to Albany, is still searching for his first NHL goal, but he's tied for sixth in the AHL in game-winning goals with four. Boychuk and teammate Stefan Chaput each have 24 points, tied for 12th in the AHL in rookie scoring. Dwyer has been in Carolina for half the season, but his two shorthanded goals ranks tied for seventh. Jerome Samson, who was recently reassigned to Albany after making his NHL debut, still leads the league in shots with 186 — 34 more than Providence's Mikko Lehtonen.
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Hate to ask – Gleason’s 62 penalty minutes are 4th in the league, you say.
Would that be 4th best (least) or 4th worst (most) ?
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 18, 2010 12:47 PM EST reply actions
PIMs are deceptive though, more doesn’t necessarily mean worse. Fights come out a wash, as do a lot of misconducts, if the other team is getting them as well.
greaticepectations.blogspot.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jan 18, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
So we really just need to look at non-aggression minors…..? Bin there, done that.
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 18, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Fourth most among d-men. 20 of his have come from fights, plus two misconducts. I wouldn’t call all of those a wash tho.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
And aren’t 17 (or an equally ridiculous number) of those from that one fight against Philly way back in October? I seem to remember a little confusion as to why he got as many minutes as he did (on both his and the fans’ part).
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
Here’s a list of the Canes D-men’s penalties. Broke out the minors separately.
Pitkanen leads with 23 minors, the AWard with 21. Given the difference in TOI for those 2, I think we could call that even (or worse for AWard).
Timmy has 11 minors, and I’d bet a couple of those or roughing or instigating. Not so much the lazy ones like tripping, holding, etc that AWard seems to get nailed for (and Pits too).
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 18, 2010 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
Confirming – Pitkanen has 25% more TOI than AWard. So (cue Gomer Pyle voice) Surprise, surprise, surprise: AWard leads the Dmen for stupid penalties per minute on the ice…….
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 18, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Even “stupid” penalties aren’t always stupid. Also, Joni and Aaron are even in PIMs per minute:
http://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/5_on_5_pens.php?sort=9&mingp=&mintoi=10&team=CAR&pos=
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
I was focusing on minors/minute I guess. And the number of penalties in your link don’t match the ones at NHL.com…..so now I’m really confused.
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 18, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think you’re forgetting Joni missed a number of games. Minutes this season:
Joni — 1026:19
AWard — 825:28
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
also, you’ll see the above link is in even-strength time.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
did you read what I said about pits having 25% more TOI than AWard? Why would the penalty counts be different between the 2 sites? Why would minors/minute be affected by number of games played?
I’m not sure we’re arguing about…sorry.
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 18, 2010 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
BehindTheNet only is counting penalties taken during 5-on-5 situations. So the penalties they took 4-on-5, 4-on-4, 4-on-3 and 3-on-4 don’t count towards it.
Also, BehindTheNet is missing a game in their stats. Notice that Pitkanen and Ward both are listed as playing one fewer game than they actually have. There are usually a few missed games in BehindTheNet’s stats every year during the season that wind up being added towards the end of the year. This is because some of the game logs have errors in them and the site owner has to go back and manually tabulate the stats for those few games. So that might be part of what is throwing off the stats.
Gotcha. Thank you. I wasn’t sure which link Cory referred to that was only Even strength time (NHL.com or BtN). The TOI numbers Cory put up are very close to the ones for all situations at NHL.com. I saw the game tally was off by one, but that didn’t account for the much larger penalty tally difference. And I can’t see where it indicates at the Behind the net stats that they are ES penalties only….unless that is what this means:
Only Non-Coincidental Penalties are included.
I interpreted as coincidental “tripping/diving” leading to 4 on 4, as an example.
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 18, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Apologies are in order
Sorry if my frustration with inopportune penalties (bigger part of frustration with this season) came out as ridicule or unfair. Pitkanen and Aaron Ward have really stepped up their minutes since Corvo went. Having spent so much time analyzing penalties (quantity and distinguishing between the aggression vs the positional) in October, I may have overstepped in my assumptions about those numbers without really looking at the specifics of each call.
Didn’t mean to pick on anybody without really knowing what I was talking about.
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 18, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t really elaborate on it at all b/c it’s one of those that’s just a stat and that’s it. Some of the penalties were “good” .. some weren’t. It doesn’t change that he’s fourth in the NHL in d-man penalties.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
understood - not picking on you.
Very true – but we’re using the forum of the comments to explore/develop the numbers that jump out at us.
And for those of us with unabashed crushes on Tim Gleason, to defend him like he was our own brother….. =D
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 18, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
I’d like to think I was one of the few who LOVED the JJ-for-Gleason trade from the get-go. Many were happy to see JJ go, but thought JR could’ve gotten more. But I was on board from the beginning. That being said, just b/c I appreciate the player doesn’t make him free of any criticism or mean the numbers lie.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Seems to me like Gleason still hasn’t returned to top form since blocking that OV shot with his face. His recent TOI is lower than what it should be considering Corvo’s out.
That wasn’t in Cory’s Lemonade numbers, but I bravely toss that out there for all you Timheads to devour.
by drifterscape on Jan 18, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s b/c he hasn’t taken as much time on the PP. They’ve been using Cullen back there more often and Carson has been getting time on the point.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
No I understand that. I was just trying to point out that penalty minutes as a stat may be misleading as opposed to actual penalties listed on the scoresheet. Especially depending on the role of the player on the team (does he fight, etc.).
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
I agree totally … that’s why i just presented it as it is and didn’t elaborate on it. It is what it is. Kind of like Whitney having 13 out-of-division goals — I don’t think he’s played markedly better in those games … just a fun stat.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Stupid Penalties Statistic
What the various statistics aren’t able to provide in particular would be a category of “stupid penalties.” Not all penalties are created equally. Some penalties save goals. Other penalties deflate the team and result from laziness or lack of self-discipline.
Although Maurice takes an extraordinary amount of heat here and at other blogs, it is not a shock to me that the players with the most hockey intelligence and who are coachable don’t take many, if any, truly stupid penalties. On the other hand, what is shocking is how many stupid and unforgivable penalties were taken this season by veteran players. After all, the idea is that experienced NHL players would use their experience to make fewer errors than rookies or new NHL players. For the Hurricanes, the opposite has been true. Some of the worst penalties in terms of hockey intelligence were taken by the 32+ year old crowd.
There is also no accurate statistic kept for being slow as a sloth in foot speed and mental speed - that is being horribly out of position and either causing a goal to occur or killing offensive momentum. Again, not all +/ statistics are created equally. I would respectfully assert that Brind’Amour has fully earned through consistently wretched play his +/- 22; and he is not merely the victim of being at the wrong shift at the wrong time. Similarly, Aaron Ward’s +/ -15 is deserved.
It is a classic case where perhaps 90% of the team is playing well enough for the team to be in playoff contention; but the 10% who are horrible are so bad only a team comprised of Ovechkins, Malkins, and Crosbys could overcome their negative impact.
There are no players on pace for 30 goals, and I’d argue the only players playing above their normal level are Jokinen and Gleason, perhaps Pitkanen. Sutter is definitely improved on last year, but every other player is either playing up to normal standards (Cullen, Alberts for example) or underachieving — whether it be b/c they are struggling, fighting injuries, have been out of the lineup — whatever.
You can’t pin the issues on a few players.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Pinning the Problems on a Few Players
I respectfully disagree that the essential problems cannot be pinned on three players — Aaron Ward, Brind’Amour, and Wallin. I think it is clear that those three have by far the highest fail quotient — key mistakes per minutes of ice time. My perspective is that those three account for more stupid penalties, goals against, and lost opportunities by a staggering margin when compared to other players on the team.
This year those failures are more devastating because of injuries to key players and the lack of a margin of error. In terms of underachieving players prior to their injuries, I would put LaRose and Walker squarely in that category. I think Ruutu and Staal would have had better years if they were not injured. I think Cam Ward would have had a better year if he didn’t have injuries this season.
I think the Hurricanes could have weathered underachievement by and injuries if they did not have to deal with Aaron Ward, Brind’Amour and Wallin. Being on the ice 22 times more often when the opposition scores than when the Hurricanes score is a staggering number. To do that twice in two consecutive seasons is astonishingly bad. Even to be +/- -15 as is Aaron Ward when considering how many times he was in the penalty box when goals are scored is amazingly bad.
I simply don’t buy the idea that wretched players don’t drag down a team. On the contrary, I think it is completely unfair to tarnish the reputations and harm the careers of NHL players by holding them accountable for the disastrous play of their teammates. It is logical, however, to ask why the coaches continue to give minutes to players who are destroying any chance of success that the team has. There are different, valid perspectives on that issue in my view.
I suggest that if one puts oneself in the skates of the other Hurricanes, it would be extremely frustrating to watch the same old, slow players continue to get ice time when their play is significantly worse than the next worst player.
Also the way the team is structured
This team is still built like the 2005 team. The plan was clearly Staal/Brindamour/Cullen as our centers, in that order. When the guy who was a top notch number two center in the recent past turns into a bad fourth line center, that will screw up the whole mix. Cullen makes a decent second-liner, but has been forced to be the number one guy in Staal’s absence and struggles. Sutter is good, but he is no 2006 Rod. Yelle is what he is, a fourth line center. So here Rod’s decline messes up the whole mix.
Cam needs to patch a few of the swiss cheese holes and play with some consistancy beyond 3 games., Staal needs to get scoring and show up for 3 periods with some consistancy also, Constant injuries to our core players are just a few of the “blames” for the season. A Ward, Wallin and Brindy are the most obvious. The prevent d with a lead is a factor. If you bench every player having a sub-par year we would have nobody one ice. There is enough contributing factors to go around for the Canes disapointment of a season.
I agree Rod’s +/- is bad … but wouldn’t he have brought the team down last year, too (given your theory)? Has Nic’s play dropped off dramatically from last year (I’d say no)?
Personally, I would say my frustration with the stick infractions taken by Pitkanen is on par with Ward.
I don’t think you can come out and say “these three are to blame” and then say they’ve would’ve overcome it without injuries. Injuries are a part of it, and Staal, Ruutu, LaRose, Cole, ect. ect. have all underachieved in the scoring department. Compare it to last year when several players (Ruutu, Corvo, LaRose, Babchuk) had career goal totals (or at least their best season outside of 2005-06; see Cullen, Staal). None of those guys are on pace to come close to their career marks.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Cory, my perspective is that indeed Brind’Amour did drag down the team and but for Babchuk’s hot streak of scoring, the team would have missed the playoffs. The difference this year includes Aaron Ward’s atrocious play, Cam Ward’s injuries, Staal’s injuries, Ruutu’s injuries, Cole’s injuries, LaRose’s lack of scoring and injuries, Walker’s lack of scoring and injuries left the team without a margin of error. Wallin was not good last season and spent a reasonable part of last season either hurt or healthy scratched. Seidenberg was much more of a helpful teammate and contributor over Aaron Ward; so basically Brind’Amour’s flaws were not disastrous. Add Aaron Ward, a healthy Wallin, and voila, instant fail for this season. I still am convinced that even with all the injuries, the Albany Rats could have added enough positives to the team that the injuries could and would have been overcome. Clearly, it is a matter of opinion and reasonable minds can differ. I simply do not adhere to the concept that one can’t tell if a player is awful. I think there is a world of difference between Pitkanen’s play and Aaron Ward’s play even if both have taken unwise penalties.
I don’t disagree with the idea that Pitkanen has been better than Ward — I think Aaron would say as much — but I just don’t think anything could’ve overcome the maelstrom of things that have happened, esp. to the team’s top two players and other significant piece.
We could woulda-shoulda-coulda all day, ie. if Staal had 25 goals right now we’d be in the playoff mix. But like I said earlier, outside of a few guys everyone has been average at best.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. The reasons for such a FAIL season are varied and way beyond just three of the players.
Take them away and we’re still one pitiful team this year. The performance of the group, individually and collectively, is as JR has chosen to describe it, “disappointing”.
And, averaging four man-injuries per game surely has not helped.
IN THE BOX FOR GOALS SCORED
I had to look this up, and it took some time. Here are the stats for in the box when PP goal against is scored (43 in all — some 5-on-3 goals makes it not add up to 43 total):
Pitkanen — 5
Samsonov, Jokinen, Ward, Kostopoulos — 4
Cullen, Gleason, Whitney — 3
Bench minor, Alberts, Staal, Brind’Amour — 2
Corvo, Wallin, Ruutu, Samson, Walker, Yelle — 1
Worth noting: Two of Ward’s four came in the same game (vs. MON)
It’s possible I missed one or two, but I looked pretty thoroughly.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Pinning Blame on Aaron Ward, Wallin, and Brind'Amour
I just got back from the debacle that was the Hurricanes v. Tampa Bay game. From section 105, it was as if Aaron Ward, Wallin, and Brind’Amour felt compelled to prove my point. In particular, Aaron Ward and Wallin were indescribably terrible. Aaron Ward came within inches of hammering an own goal. Wallin was undressed twice by Saint Louis. Brind’Amour was again slow and generally disoriented. Once Jokinen starting centering the third line, the three lines had some continuity.
Toronto won tonight, so the Hurricanes gained important distance in the Taylor Hall quest.
Beware the Oilers!! Foes are everywhere trying to attain what is rightfully ours by pain of suckage!!!!!
A
Staals going to the Olymipics, BFD!
When will Staal learn that a wrap ain't really a shot?
When does last place become unacceptable?
Trade Staal for a real Super Star or a bag of pucks, trade him now.
stats
Note also that, according to behindthenet, Sutter also does a fair job at drawing penalties, though Ruutu still leads us in that department.
Also, are the massive TOI numbers for Pitkanen and the long injured Corvo a good thing? I think it just betrays our lack of depth on defense, and Maurice’s willingness to overplay his horses. CF Cam Ward.
I never realized O’Neil had the franchise record for goals, not Geoff Sanderson or Blaine Stoughton or perhaps even Francis or Dineen… Interesting stat. Thanks for sharing.
Just Hurricanes … not including Hartford.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
yeah … my bad. Just trying to not make every sentence sound the same. LOL
Overall, Ronnie is No. 1 with 264 Hartford, 118 Carolina (382). Rest are (Whalers + Canes = total)
Dineen 235 + 15 = 250
Stoughton 219 + 0 =219
Sanderson 189 + 7 = 196
Verbeek 192 + 0 =192
O’Neill 22 + 176 = 188
Turgeon 178 + 0 = 178
Staal 0 + 174 – 174
Brind’Amour 0 + 169 = 169
Ferraro 157 + 0 = 157
Cole 0 + 137 = 137
The top 10 have 1,860 goals … 103 fewer than Gretzky’s total number of assists.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
sry … my total omitted Ronnie … so top 10 should be a total 2103. So ahead of Gretz ;)
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Wow Cory, thanks, you didn’t have to do all that!
Staal looks to be about 2 blow up seasons to 4 regular ones from passing Ronnie Franchise. It’ll be a nice achievement.
Sylvain Turgeon sighting!
Not surprised that Stoughton and Sanderson are near the top. Sanderson was one of the best pure goal scorers and fastest skaters in the early 90s. It’s a shame he was one of the few guys who seemed to have lost his passion right after the team moved.
Stoughton still the only one with a 50-goal season, too (two of ’em). Mike Rogers hold the best single-season point mark with back-to-back 105s. Funny thing is he did it once with a plus-29, then followed it up with a minus-22. lol
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 18, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
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