Taylor Hall, Cam Fowler Don't Emerge From WJC’s As Clear-Cut Top Pick
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 6, 2010 1:00 PM EST
130 comments
Sometimes you don't even need to look. Ask John Carlson.
Without even taking a glance toward the net, the Team USA defenseman ripped the game-winning overtime goal past Canadian goaltender Martin Jones to give the United States gold at the IIHF Under-20 World Junior Championships. The 6-5 victory snapped Canada's five-year run as the world's junior hockey mega-Goliath, with Carlson's no-look wrister serving as a slingshot projectile worthy of David.
You can bet the Carolina Hurricanes’ brass was looking — closely. Tuesday's gold medal game between Canada and the U.S. was a major event in the hockey world, but also offered Jim Rutherford & Co. a chance to watch top draft prospects Taylor Hall and Cam Fowler face off one last time before the June 25 NHL Entry Draft in Los Angeles. From now until then, they resume being teammates for the powerhouse Windsor Spitfires of the OHL.
But for those who only look at the stat sheet from the instant classic (reairing at 6 p.m. tonight on the NHL Network), Hall’s three-point performance may affirm his status as the frontrunner to go first overall. But the Carlson no-look doesn't work in this instance.
Hall’s night included scoring the goal that tied the game at three apiece and two assists, while Fowler was without a point — though on the right side of the final score. But in watching the game, you didn't notice Hall any more than Fowler. Hall's second-period goal was the definition of soft and led Team USA coach Dean Blais to yank starter Mike Lee in favor of 17-year-old Jack Campbell (more on him later). Hall's assists — on Windsor teammate Greg Nemisz’ first-period goal and the first of Jordan Eberle’s two third-period markers — were secondary assists, neither of which showcased his considerable skill.
And there's no denying that skill — Hall is fast, shifty and slick with the puck. But he was far from dominant — not Tuesday and not in the New Year's Eve meeting between the same two teams. Were there flashes of brilliance? Not really, unless you're mesmerized by fancy stick work.
Fowler, on the other hand, has a Chris Pronger way about him. No, he's not out to decapitate his opponents, but there is a poise in both ends that is beyond his 18 years. Fowler, like Hall, was good but not great last night in Saskatoon, but his composure — as an underdog on a big stage against a hostile crowd — is worth filing away. He also seems bigger than his listed 6-2, 190-pound frame, whereas Hall seemed much smaller despite giving just an inch and five pounds to his OHL teammate.
If anyone thought Hall would be the physical force Eric Staal desperately needs on his wing, there was no evidence to that in his play — he more resembled Canes top prospect Zach Boychuk than any kind of power forward, not that that's a bad thing. Hall seemed content on the outside, dangling with the puck and looking for any kind of hole to pass or shoot through. Compare that to Team USA captain Derek Stepan, who was a physical force throughout the tournament without sacrificing his offensive production. You'd never guess Stepan is actually smaller than Hall.
Nitpicking? Perhaps. While neither Hall nor Fowler propelled themselves to the top of the heap during the tournament, both fared well against older, more experienced competition. But what you want — and hope — to see is an elite player seizing the moment and proving his dominance, much like John Tavares did last year and Eberle did each of the past two World Juniors. Look at Campbell, who helped his draft stock by stepping in for Mike Lee in the gold medal game and stabilized the U.S. in net. Or Las Vegas forward John Zucker, whose physical play and speed opened eyes throughout the event.
Hall and Fowler didn't hurt their chances at going first overall, but I don't know that they helped them either.
But maybe Tyler Seguin deserves another look.
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Yup,
Hall didn’t look like anyone’s savior.
Like I said, wishing for the #1 loser? That’s not something to be looking forward to IMNSHO.
Happerry Chrisolkwanaka
“Don’t know if they helped”???
Yea 3 pts….
Come on Cory. Hall kept his marble in the draft box. While he didn’t dominate with physical bashing, 3 points on a big night speaks volumes.
Agree there other fine players, but I think Hall looks like he’s the guy.
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
I got to agree here. Hall was hardly mentioned last night, other than the announcers mentioning how he wasn’t taking over or was being kept off his normal side on the PP by the US defense.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
LOL!
So Cory, 2 assist a night is all we can ask from the 6 million dollar Staal, but Hall has an off or at least un-dynamic 3 point night and he’s a slouch.
You guys slay me!!!
The kids first drivers lic is still warm from the friggin’ laminater. A goal and 2 assists is NEVER a bad thing despite anybody’s opinion to the contrary. Maybe he did exactly what he was supposed to and stay to the outside rather than get beat up in the slot?
3 points for Gods sake. What else do expect from the guy? Maybe a couple failed wrap arounds or lay on the ice looking for a call? I’d much prefer a quite 3 point game any day.
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
Did you watch the game?
I never said he was a slouch, but he did nothing to take a hold of the situation and say “I’m the best guy here.” In fact, he deferred to Eberle.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 6, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yup, it’s on again right now, too.
The guy has an off game, Gets three points and gets panned. Unreal. Anybody watch the previous game he did perform well in, to throw the point back?
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
The new years eve game, yeah I did. He was invisible. The rest of the games were like NHL teams playing qmjhl teams so I don’t really credit them much. But again no one is panning him, just saying he did not impress like earlier top rated picks like Tavares.
by wylde4canes on Jan 6, 2010 8:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Would that be his first, second or third year?
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
I ain’t saying he ain’t good, just saying the hype that he is a surefire #1 and better than Tavares werent proven at the wjhc
by wylde4canes on Jan 6, 2010 9:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Compare apples and oranges and yup. think everybody sees Tavares 3rd year and Halls first.
This kid may smoke Tavares when he’s that old.
Are you getting that? Tavares, the guy that don’t shave yet, is way older than this guy. Give him the same amount of proving ground….
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
No it’s apples to apples. Performance on the wjhc the year of his draft. I understand what you are saying, but at the end of the day one of the questions as gm you ask yourself is how quick can this kid be in our lineup as an impact player. His wjhc performance may put him a year further out than people suspected prior to the tourney.
by wylde4canes on Jan 6, 2010 9:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I also watched that New Years Eve game and have to agree with Cory. He was certainly good (weren’t they all?), but not any more noticeable than other talent on the ice.
But, I do have an asterisk by these WJC games, as players playing for country surely accept roles that might be different from ones they play on their own team.
This glimpse of him is just one data point among many we will undoubtedly gather pre-draft. A good one, but not all we need to know before it’s time to choose.
A hat trick against Slvakia, 3 points against USA.
I don’t get you guys. You stick up for Staal in his most pathetic year since the lockout but a kid that score more goals in a 5 game stretch ain’t the real deal?
Read and view. I don’t think we are watching the same kid.:
http://watch.tsn.ca/international-hockey/clip250571#clip250571
No Forsland but the kid seems savvy.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/juniorhockey/article/744055—taylor-hall-s-hat-trick-sparks-canada
Color me whatever but I agree this kid is the real deal. Only re-enforced by Elskers dislike of him. been wrong on everything else, just add this to the list.
In all honesty what do you want from this kid? His numbers are great. he’s dam near the youngest guy on the ice, yet has more skill than about all of them. Couple more years and this kid will probably smoke Tavares. Yet 3 point in the USA game, a hatty in the ass end of December aren’t good, aren’t great?
WTF?
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
Whoa, there. You’ve overshot the mark.
Please read Cory and my assessments again. Where do you get “dislike”? I like the kid. But, he was not a world-beater. That’s all.
Jury’s still out for me.
I reckon it started with Cory saying the kids 3 point night didn’t help his draft potential. It went on, or morphed into the kid wasn’t performing to “expectations”.
I gues I understand your position and frankly I am in the same boat. Give the kid a year or two and see what we get. I’d say draft his ass, so we can help and watch better and reap the benifits I think he will bring.
End all? Who knows? Vastly skilled? Hell yea. Does that make a great NHL’r? Again, who knows.
I just find it pretty hpocritical for any Cane fan to be even marginaly negative on a kid that performs like this one. If our 7 digit guys played like this every night it would be something. The kid is a couple dog years younger than many of the USA guys, yet was target number one. 5-6 draft eligible guys on USA, Taylor Hall stands alone on team Canada.
I am just very surprised that an obviously very talented guy, that is in the position to be had by our teams vast failure.
Isn’t looked at with a little brighter optomism.
Me, optomism.
What’s wrong here?
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
I didn’t say he didn’t perform to expectations. I’m saying he didn’t make everyone say “Wow, there’s the first overall pick.”
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 6, 2010 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
I won’t jump on the obvious there, but just say that I wonder what were your expectations, what was the medias, what were his coaches and most of all what were his? Mine were met.
If first overall pick were a single game it would be meaningless. A great junior career capped with a 3 point losing effort seems like puncuation.
To make another Stall anology, if Staal scored 3 in every losing effort we’d all but have the Presidents trophy…
I give up. I mis took your article. I used the situation to point out issues with the team and Staal specific like.
I’m done.
’night.
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
Again WTF does staal have to do with this? I know u think he is over payed and under performs, fine. But noone on here except u is making this comparison. Also you call him a whiner, which you’ll have to prove to me.
by wylde4canes on Jan 6, 2010 9:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Whiner= Staal laying on the ice looking for a call. If you have missed it look at about any of the first 30 games.
As for Staal being relevant, he’s the 6 million dollar man (with an 8 and a quarter cap hit). His numbers are like 4th on the team. Pretty much ‘splains the rest. He’s the litmus test for the canes.
The Sedin twins make tabout the same. Henrik is off the chart, but Daniel that some here refer to as a Binky has 33 points in 25 games. Hmmm, Staal the Carolina monster is weak and needs to step up or step out. Taylor Hall in a 4 game stretch has better points and dam near as many goals as Staal all year. Game against peers. The Carolina Hurricanes need a performer. Hall has been one for his teams. Crosby has for his. Staal has not. My point is we need a guy that can.
I’d hope Hall is the guy. Maybe he is, maybe he ain’t. This year’s draft pick is the best we are probably gonna get. (I hope?) So pick carefully. I feel Hall is the best in the talent dept. This team is obviously going into rebuild mode. I want everyone to keep in mind, maybe Staal ain’t the guy that fits here. Maybe he’s more valuable as a trade item.
Do I think it will happen? Probably not. If I were GM for the day and I could swap him for Henrik Sedin? I’d buy Staal a house in Vancouver to get rid of him. I’d like to see people think a little outside of the 30th place box. What if? Maybe could?
Staal has been inserted as the lynch pin by the org. I feel that was another in a long line of mistakes. It appears to be working out. Staal is no longer the gifted one to be annonted captain. I am waiting for the realization that he’s just a talented supporter. A Matt Cullen. What this team needs….and deserved this year by money spent is an animal assassin. I think Staal the main money maker is not that guy. Maybe Hall could be.
That’s whjere that comes from.
That and Cory pissed me off awhile back defending him. And then the SOB (Staal, not Cory) scored 2 points a couple games. Hard to argue with that…
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
He’s having a bad year, no doubt. But I think you opinion is short sighted. Remember his clutch stuff in the playoffs last year, and his domination the year we won the cup. People have off years, don’t make them sob’s. I think Staal is the whipping boy for some of u on here, but this is a team sport. They win as a team or lose as a team. If you think sedins over staal, that is fine, how many plaoff series has Vancouver won since the lockout?
by wylde4canes on Jan 6, 2010 9:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Full circle. Maybe Hall had an off game. He’s been a dynamo all year. He made it to first overall contention, has a 3 point game and…………now he’s not as good…..
You hit it. Think about it.
Screw the Sedins (unless we can get them) They just happen to be in Staals tax bracket and eat him.
As for the whipping boy. when you are the highest paid polayer on the team, there are certain respo’s that come with the check…
Staal in the Cup year=A OK
Every year since has been a down fall. Evcen the 80 year isn’t where he is being paid.
I’ll even give him the point he doesn’t have a huge supporting cast. I still think he comes up short.
Think outside of what will be and imagine what that 6 mill could be…
Brodeur
Elias
the Sedins
Datsyuk
That kind of money get’s some return in the NHL.
As for win or lose as a team. I agree/disagree. I agree that a team in it’s complete form is better than the parts. I disagree Staal is part of any team other than team Staal.
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
There’s no denying Hall is having a great year. Seguin has been as good on a lesser team, tho … and in the end that is Hall’s competition (with Fowler as a long shot). No one here (I hope) thinks Hall is a bust-in-the-making. For me, I’m saying he didn’t solidify himself as first overall. I wrote an article before the game saying it was a chance for him or Fowler to step up and be the dominant player on the ice. Neither were. I don’t know where you get I’m saying he stunk. He was fine, just not great. He has the rest of the season and the Memorial Cup to prove himslef. Nothing is set in stone.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 6, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think I took your remarks wrong. It seemed as if you were presenting a scenario that was Halls to make or break and and he fell short. The “they didn’t hurt, but didn’t help” comment seems to be pretty pessimistic for against a guy that has scored his ass off, led his team, and been the center targeyt for every opposing team.
and Staal sucks..
Sorry couldn’t resist!
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
Na … it wasn’t “this is his final chance.” It was more “this is a chance to leave everyone with no doubt.” He comes out of the WJC’s the way he came in, IMO: the frontrunner but not the definitive No. 1 as of right now. But right now he’s still the top guy.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
Then who would be your #1?? I’m confused?
Tyler Seguin didn’t even make Team Canada… I’m also tired of hearing “Oh Seguin plays on a worse team and gets the same points so he must be better”. You might want to also note that Seguin plays 20+ minutes a night while Hall gets 10-12 minutes.
Hall is far and away the #1. You could make the argument for Fowler… but Fowler looked even less impressive to me than Hall. Hall scored 3 points in the gold medal game, without him it wouldnt have even been close.
It should also be noted that Tavares played on the first line last year in the WJC and had 2 years of experience on the team. This was Halls first year and he played on the 2nd line. Comparing them would be comparing apples to oranges.
In fact, in Tavares’ first WJC, he scored a very uninspiring 5 points in 7 games, much worse than Hall’s 12 points in 6 games which was good for 3rd overall scoring leader in teh whole tournament.
And in my opinion there has been no defensemen in the past 10 years good enough to be taken number 1 over the top forward. Look at the history and I think you’d agree that even when someone takes a D first (such as Erik Johnson in 2007), the first overall forward always plays out to be a better choice (Patrick Kane that year).
Defensemen develop and become franchise players later in their career, usually right near when their RFA status is running out. In my opinion this makes them less desirable to draft.
Doughty > Stamkos. Believed it then, believe it now.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Well, being a huge fan of Doughty I would say they are about equal… However Stamkos is still developing and after a rocky start to last season he has scored goals like there is no tomorrow. Doughty was the same way, he has emerged much more so this season looking to be a franchise guy. Plus he is kind of a freak of nature along with Bogosian, the good majority of D don’t develop until they are 25ish.
You can’t disagree that Stamkos is an amazing talent and has brought many many goals to Tampa.
I’d disagree … Doughty’s a prodigy. That kid is absolutely amazing. Stamkos is very good, but Doughty is spectacular.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
And in my opinion…
Doughty >> Fowler
What did Fowler even do in the WJC to make people so high on him here? I watched all the USA games and while he made a few plays, he was largely a ghost… Especially in the Final. Pietrangelo looked to be 5 times the player Folwer did.
No doubt … Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo are prolly all better than Fowler. That has the potential to perhaps be the best D draft ever. Schenn too.
I thought Fowler was very good .. poise beyond his years, confident, great passer, assertive on the PP. Points aren’t everything.
Also, why does Hall get the “he’s young and at his first WJC” pass from you (as a forward — much easier to play) and Fowler gets nothing? Fowler was huge is shutting down opposing teams top guys.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Because on a team that has been dead last in the league in scoring multiple times in the past 5 years, we need some goal scoring. Big shut-down D are great, but what makes Doughty, Bogosian, and Pietrangelo great is that they are very offensively skilled D.
I guess I just didn’t see enough offensive talent or flare out of Fowler to put him anywhere near Hall on the hierarchy of players that could help this team the most.
I don’t think he’s just a shutdown D. He’s a total package guy. Like you said, guys like Doughty, Bogosian are freaks. Give Fowler a few years and I’m sure he’ll be putting up some offensive numbers. More important than points for d-men, IMO, is the ability to make the first pass. Fowler’s already elite at that, from what I’ve seen.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
also, it’s not just about Hall vs. Fowler, it’s about Seguin, too. And again, I’m not saying Hall < Fowler/Seguin … I’m just saying it’s not cut and dry yet.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
You forgot Tyler Meyers in that list as well for the 2008 entry draft.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
I think everyone’s a little surprised at how good he is so fast. Throw in Teubert, Karlsson, Carlson, Sbisa and Del Zotto as well.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
The entire point of the article was that no one stood out and made it clear they’re the definitive No. 1. I didn’t say “Hall’s not ranked No. 1 anymore.” I said instead of sealing the deal, it’s open for debate still.
As for the five points in seven games for Tavares, that was the U18s, not the U20s (Tavares played in the U20s twice, not three times), and he was 15 at those U18s.
While Seguin plays more than Hall (tho not twice as much), there is boatloads (literally) more talent on Windsor. They had six guys at the World Juniors. That is a scary good team.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Paladin there is a long way from slouch to first over all material. No one is saying he is the former, but what everyone is saying is, this performance did nothing to cement the latter. And the other point being made is his impact on the stat sheet is misleading. He was the recipient of two points for being on the ice with impact players and got a softie. Hardly makes you consensus first overall material.
And I don’t know how any of this conversation has anything to do with Staal. You and a few others have a hate on for the guy because JR decided to pay him well.
Taylor Hall
I can understand why Cory has reached the conclusion he did; but I respectfully disagree. Game after game, Taylor Hall came to play. He has great speed, excellent acceleration, and goes to the net with authority. My inclination is to look at the physical abilities and mental toughness of athletes along with the performance. Taylor Hall would be my first pick. Cam Fowler is going to be an excellent NHL player, but if I were Jim Rutherford, I would pick Hall if available and then Seguin if available.
he is young so maybe this changes but
to me it looked like physical play took him out of his game…also took some of his teammates out of theirs as they felt compelled to retaliate….even though the hits on Hall that I saw were perfectly clean.
Well Hall is not known for being a hulking power-forward… He is known for blinding speed and being a natural goal scorer. Most every superstar forward coming out of the Canadien Juniors system will be that way (Stamkos, Tavares, Crosby, ect.)
Staal was the same exact way when he came to us, we just had to bulk him up a little bit.
As often happens, I disagree P!
I thought if anything, last night showcased some of Hall’s deficiencies. He did not fare well against the physical game, disappearing whenever USA put the heat on him. He also turned over the puck resulting in a US goal as well. Do I think he goes first overall still, probably, but I don’t think he’ll have many people, other than stat sheet surfers, using his WJHC performance as proof he deserves to be the first over all.
On the flip side, Campbell just saw his name go up the board by a considerable amount. I’d like to see him still available early in the second round.
On this point, Canada — as the designated home team — got final change and made a point to keep Fowler off of Hall (and Eberle). Eberle was spectacular, but Hall was more a spectator.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 6, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Well that sucked. Was gonna watch again and pay more attention to young #4 and made it to 2-2 and the power went out (again) jusy came back on in time for the 3 on 2 rush for the game winner.
That sucks. I’m sorry I can’t enlighten you all with more wisdom…
;-)
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
Whatever the NHL Network channel is on your provider. Same channel that carried the original and the first re-broadcast.
2 PM on 215 if anybody else is interested.
I gotta watch again and try and understand why you all are panning this guy.
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
No one is panning him Paladin. All anyone has said is that he wasn’t as god-like as the media made him out to be.
There’s a difference between not getting what you expected and hating him. I think most people here fall into the first category.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
Maybe I didn’t get the gist of the article or some of the posts.
Just a friggin mongolian cluster puck when I’m trying to be Joe glass hlaf full (and A Dog) and everybody else sees one game and says he ain’t helping his draft chance with 3 POINTS!
I dunno, whatever. I’m glad I got power back. Wicked cold out again.
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The Canes are like a box of expired chocolates......
Hall had 12 points overall and Eberle had 13. Jordan Eberle was on the first line playing first line minutes while Hall was on the second line playing second line minutes. Granted Eberle had 2 huge goals to come back and tie the game late in the 3rd, however Canada would have never even been that close if it wasn’t for Hall’s 3 points he got ealier in the game.
Everyones going nuts about Eberle… He was good but I think it should be noted that Boychuk was just as good and hyped up when playing for Canada last year and he isn’t some superstar today. The fact that Hall had one less point playing on the 2nd line proves that he was just as great. Hall was also sustained a knee injured in the pre-tournament games which analysts said slowed down his play in the tournament.
Do you really think so? Hall didn’t do anything special on those goals. Like I said, they were about the quietest three points I’ve seen. Fluke goal, couple secondary assists. I thought he made better plays on situations that didn’t result in a goal.
As for Eberle, this is two years in a row that he took his entire team on his back and carried them. Hall wasn’t as good as him. He was good, but Eberle was amazing.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Boychuk, Hall, Eberle
I think the point is well-taken about Boychuk not yet being a superstar. I would say that players like Boychuk need nurturing, but they have the talent, will, and personality to become NHL superstars. I thought Eberle was very, very impressive, but I don’t feel confident his style will translate to superstar status in the NHL. He will could become the next real deal; but my take is that Boychuk has equivalent talent and potential to Eberle, if not more. Boychuk has superb speed and amazing hands. Once he learns when to use that speed against the bigger NHL defenders, he will be a scoring machine. Similary, I think JussiJuice is correct in pointing out that Eberle already has been in the WJCs and had first line minutes. Eberle did carry the team; but frankly I thought Hall carried the team as well.
I was very impressed with Hall’s presence on the ice and his willingness to go wide open throttle in tight spaces even when he was taking physical poundings throughout the game.
In the end, many of these players are excellent and there are really no bad choices — only good choices and excellent choices. It’s a great problem to have trying to figure out which talented hockey player to add to the Hurricanes.
Eberle has more Claude Lemieux/Max Talbot potential … just makes plays when they need making (not the Claude dirt hits part). I agree Boychuk is more talented.
Eberle did this last year too, in his first U20s. Just a clutch guy.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Playing basketball, we called it money time. I assume it was like this (and still is) other places than South Carolina and that is what the term means universally. Some of the outdoor games were played with people (including spectators) betting on the teams. Money time was when the game was on the line and people had their week’s gas money resting on the outcome. You could tell who wanted the ball and who became invisible. Eberle does possess that quality that he wants the puck on his stick when the game is on the line.
Whitney, Staal, and Jokinen have all disproportionately made great plays when the game was on the line. Some players are pure and simple winners. Eberle is that kind of player, I think.
I think Hall is the guy. He didn’t have a dominant tournament, but as well as he played being the youngest guy there is impressive.
Also, if you watched U.S.’s celebration after the game, as the camera went past some of the players the kid standing next to Cam says “Cam Fowler, #1 pick overall!” I thought that was funny.
greaticepectations.blogspot.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jan 6, 2010 1:25 PM EST reply actions
Puck Daddy just put up this video from the USA locker room after the win. Must see – to the end.
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
Loved it. I also found the anthem singing in case anyone missed it. It takes a while to load, but it’s worth it.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
As one of the most gung ho Hall supporters, what I saw in this tournament worried me. That said, he is a year younger than most of the players in the tourny, and some of the things he lacks you can teach. Some of the things he can do with the puck, though, you can’t teach. Fowler was just fantastic. It’s a real shame that Seguin didn’t make the team so we could have seen all three.
Fowler’s first pass is, IMO, already NHL ready. Every single one: tape to tape.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 6, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe this is Cory’s admission he thinks the Canes should pick Fowler first if he is there.
by hockeythoughts on Jan 6, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno yet … but certainly something that shouldn’t be ignored as an option.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 6, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously Cory, please don’t get my hopes up for Fowler. I’m not going to even talk about him until I hear JR say something about a willingness to take a defensemen early in the draft. Not to mention, imagine if we have first pick and swapped that for the second to take Fowler and were able to pick up another pick later in the first.
I think it spoke volumes about Fowler that Canada kept Eberle and Hall off the ice when he was on the ice.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
I said early on that Fowler would make a great consolation prize, if we’re not picking first.
And, after just a few data points picked up from watching games during this tourney, I’m not sold completely on Taylor Hall as being a consensus #1 either.
This is why I’m pretty relaxed about how this season may play out. If we’re not picking #1 at the draft, I’ll be fine, as long as we’re picking top 3.
Lots of talent to be had somewhere in that top 3, and each team’s needs will be situational in nature if there is not consensus #1, so we should have an excellent chance at acquiring whoever we have identified.
Fowler brings another plus to the table
He’ll likely play juniors next season. That means the team won’t burn a year of an entry contract on a rebuilding year and it would help the team to earn a high pick next year.
Again, not getting my hopes up here. Until JR says he’s willing to take D early I’m not putting too many eggs in this basket.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
It’s hard to tell the value of any player based upon just a couple of games, or even a full tournament. But USA used specific strategy to be physical on Hall, and the strategy worked. Hall is going to face much more physicality in the NHL.
I was telling Cory this morning he reminds me a bit of Boychuk, but how many Boychuk’s does the team need?
GM of CanesCountry.com
And Boychuk was/is better than Hall I believe. Of course, Hall will be playing for Team Canada again next year too. (2011 WJC in Buffalo!)
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
Physical they were. They were nailing that kid every chance they got and it shut him down.
I was kind of on the fence about this. Hall had a pretty good tournament overall, but I think we need a D-man more than another forward. I think Fowler would be more NHL ready even thought he’s a D. If you pick Hall you’re probably going to have to wait 2 years for him to get to his NHL weight, otherwise…….well see my 1st 2 sentences.
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
In my view the team needs as many 6’1" 190 lbs Boychuks as they can draft, trade, or sign. There are only a handful of players with that kind of speed, quickness, soft hands, and desire. If Boychuk were 6’1" 190 lbs, he would be talked about as a prodigy. As it is, Boychuk, I think, is going to be a fantastic player for the Hurricanes once he gets used to the pace of the game.
Just getting the feeling that this will end up being a draft where the best NHL player will not be taken first… because it’s not clear yet who the best player will be. At least, with the way things are going, the Canes will end up with a high 2nd round choice. I hope our scouts are doing their homework.
First off, I have to admit that I didn’t follow the WJC too closely, but that’s a product of not having the NHL Network more than not caring.
However, I wasn’t blown away by Hall last night (or the other two times I was able to catch a grainy bootleg feed). Maybe all the hype colored my perception of him unfairly. It may be a tad too early to purchase the #4 Hall jersey because I could see the team going in a different direction.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
I watched the tourny last year purely for the fact that they were touting Tavares as the next Gretzky. I expected to watch a player head and shoulders above his competition,dominating every facet of the game, and that wasnt the case in my opinion. He played well and put up points but didnt live up to the hype I perceived. I think this is the same case with Hall.
I agree, for the most part … thing is Tavares took over the USA-Canada game when Canada was in trouble. There was another gear that he switched on. That’s what impressed me there.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 6, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I saw where Eberle was a hometown boy too. Pretty inspirational. if Canada had won the gold, they’d probably name a Saskatoon rink after him. =D
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
Just a rink? If Canada had won (and he was the one to strike in OT) there would have been an annual Eberle Day and he’d never have to buy a drink cup of coffee soda ever again.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
na … he did this last year and didn’t get an Eberle Day. ;)
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 6, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Ah yes, the famous 1999 draft where Zetterburg was taken in the 7th round.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Odd that Pavel Brendl was selected 4th overall…..
The Rangers would have been in good shape if it were a pie eating contest…..
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Jan 6, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s Bruce Peter’s (who writes for PuckDaddy blog) opinion on who the top draft picks are based on the tourney. He’s loving Hall. But I think it depends on what kind of lenses you’re looking through. (back to the how many Boychuks do you need comment)
Taylor Hall, F, CAN
Well, he was looked to as No. 1 to begin the tournament, so he couldn’t have gone up any, but there was debate between him and Tyler Seguin for the top pick. It’s safe to say that Hall’s performance has given him a stranglehold on No. 1 for now.
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
I dunno if I’m sold on Bob’s Boychuk comment. I’ve always seen Boychuk as more of a playmaker (although he can certainly score), while Hall is a pure goal scorer. This tourny was actually kind of interesting because Hall acted more as a playmaker, which is abnormal for him. Boychuk is quick and crafty, but I don’t see him as a game breaker like Hall has the potential to be.
That may be a good thing, from the scouting reports Ive seen, they said he needs to work on his vision/decision/playmaking abilities. That could be a part of his game that he’s worked on and wanted to showcase. I thought the same thing.
As far as the Tavares comparisons from the junior tourny, Tavares was a 3 year vet. I would bet that if Hall returned to juniors next year and played again he would dominate like we all kind of expected this time around.
What about trading the #1pick? Maybe some Canadian team would overpay for a chance to draft Hall
Still not a crook!
Hmmmm
I like it in concept. Unfortunately we need the entry level salary for a few years to make this re-build work (or at least that’s how others have explained it ot me).
Gleason for the "C" :
Just what do we need to do to make this happen?
I would not trade the #1 or #2 pick. I think Hall will be the #1 pick and that he will be an excellent NHL big, fast, scoring wing. How many players his age can control the puck and shot at full stride? Of those handful who can, how many are 6/1"? I think very, very few.
Chip just tweeted that Samson is being called up for the game tomorrow night. I’m really interested to see him play since I don’t know much about him. I know he’s the leading scorer for the Rats, but haven’t heard much talk about bringing him up to the big club until now.
Still not a crook!
Samson
In watching the Albany Rats on AHLLive, I have been impressed with Samson all-around game. He is intense, has decent size, skates well; and is one of those players who never gives up on a play. I had him projected as a fourth line player next year; but he has the potential to have sufficient scoring ability to make a run at time on the third line.
As others have pointed out, once Samson gets time at Carolina, it will be clearer whether his game translates well from AHL into the NHL. My guess is that people will be pleasantly surprised with Samson’s combination of grit and skill.
Hope you’re right. Hard to imagine your leading scorer in the AHL not being able to produce in the bigs, but it does sometimes happen. Looknig forward to watching him play tonight.
Still not a crook!
go down the list of AHL leading scorers. I think you’d be surprised at how many don’t make it (Corey Locke, Keith Aucoin, ect. ect.). Hopefully it works for Samson.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Skills that translate from AHL to NHL
Keith Aucoin is an excellent example. Some players size and skill sets don’t translate well from the AHL to the NHL. The NHL has more speed, skating, and physicality and the cerebral part of the game plays a very significant role. Aucoin was not big enough to muscle into the inside game, and lacked the speed, and soft hands, and decision-making to make the transition as well as one would hope.
Samson has the size, grit, hands, and speed to be a very good NHL player; but as Cory points out, the only way to know for certain is for Samson to take advantage of his opportunities when at Carolina. He will be playing with some familiar players, so if he can relax, play hard and play smart, he could be a great addition to the team (particularly next year and beyond).
Perfectly said Doug … my concern with Samson (and maybe the reason he hasn’t gotten the call until now) is there is no standout skill in his toolbox. He’ll need to be good at every aspect to translate.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Taylor Hall and Phil Kessel
So I’ve had a day to mull this over, and I’ve got a few thoughs.
Is it possible that, like Phil Kessel in 2006, that Taylor Hall has been talked about so much that he can’t live up to hype? (Pay no attention to the fact that the four players picked before Kessel in the 2006 draft are at least as good if not better. Fact is no one got more scrutiny than Kessel and he lived up to it for over 18 months as a very young man.). Here’s my question: If Hall and Seguin were neck and neck in the eyes of the scouts going in, as opposed to Hall being above Seguin, wouldn’t the WJC have put Hall over the top? Fact is, there might not be a true generational player at the top of this draft. Doesn’t mean the players aren’t great, just means these guys aren’t likely to be winning Richard trophys.
Also, isn’t it possible that were comparing Taylor Hall to the recent past of #1 over all picks (from 2001 Kovalchuk, Nash, Fluery, Ovechkin, Crosby, Johnson, Kane, Stamkos, Tavares)? Those are all perennial all-stars with the exception of Stamkos, who may still prove me wrong.I’m guilty of this when it comes to Seguin. One of my knocks on him is that I’d rather have Duchene. Problem is, that’s an impossible comparison.
Fowler brings in an interesting wrinkle, but until I here JR say he is willing to take a D that early, I’m not going down that road.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Hockeys Future Article on Top 10 in OHL
This article is well done and is interesting.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/11747/top10_ohl_prospects_for2010_draft/
If Cory’s point is that Taylor Hall is still likely to the be #1 pick,but if Hall had been able to totally dominate the WJC tournament he would have sealed the deal without any doubt, I don’t have too much quarrel. I felt Hall had an excellent tournament and if he played that well in the Stanley Cup playoffs, he would be receiving massive praise.
For his age, the WJC is a similar stage as the Stanley Cup playoffs. If I were Rutherford, I would be excited to have the chance to draft Hall and would do so in a nanosecond. In my view, Hall is one of those hockey players like Patrick Kane who makes everybody on his team look better and makes the team better. The Hurricanes need to be faster, bigger, and better offensively. Hall adds that dimension as far as I am concerned.
Here’s a short quote from the article above: “Hall finds a way to put up the points because of his blazing speed. He is constantly moving his feet and finding open ice for himself. He’s also got highlight reel stickhandling skills, which he can sometimes overuse. His wrist shot is especially lethal as well, with a quick release and the ability to find corners from improbable angles.”
Hockeys Future lists Taylor Hall as # Height: 6-0; # Weight: 178 lbs
At the Windor Spitfires website he is listed as :
http://www.windsorspitfires.com/roster.php
Position: Left Wing
Hometown: Kingston, ON
Birthday: November 14, 1991
Shot: Left
NHL Status: Eligible in 2010
Height: 6’1"
Weight: 185
Yeah … exactly what I’m saying Doug. He didn’t seal it, but Fowler didn’t steal it. But that still leaves Seguin out there to cast doubt — and no one has a better gauge on Seguin than the Canes, given the Plymouth thing.
i think your comparison to Kane is fair (tho I don’t know that he was or will be as good — but who does?), but part of the issue I had with Hall throughout the tourney is he played like Kane’s size (undersized at 5-10ish) instead of playing big or even to his size (like how I compared him to Stepan).
Now, flip side … Crosby plays — and is — smallish (crouched down, shifty) too, but goes to the front of the net and takes a lickin’ and keeps on tickin’. So maybe that is just what our expectations should be, that Hall will be willing to get in those dirty areas from time to time. But for me, I wouldn’t look at his frame and say “oh, he can grow into this and be a physically dominant force on top of being a scorer.”
This is all nitpicking and there’s plenty of time to decide who the best guy is (and if the Canes even get to chooses said “best guy”). Right now I’m sold on Hall’s skills, just not ready to make the impulse buy.
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 7, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
He didn’t seal it, but Fowler didn’t steal it. But that still leaves Seguin out there to cast doubt
Exactly. Nice data points gathered, and Hall is probably the leading candidate for me at the moment.
But fortunately we do not have to make our choice now. There’s lots to see before we will have our time at the podium. Whichever turn that is.
Although, I have to admit I had some serious coveting for John Carlson going on way before the GWG.
Fowler’s listed a couple of inches shorter, but could certainly develop a similar frame. We are sooooo missing something like that amidst our D-corps.
Maybe I’m still looking his way and hoping Fate makes JR’s choice easier to make.
I’m one that thinks Taylor Hall is a type of player that this organization needs. Seguin or Fowler will also turn into real strong players, but I believe Hall is above them in talent and potential. Like I’ve said before, I believe he’ll start the season on the 3rd line and move up as the season goes on.
If you don’t feel Hall is the clear #1, there is always a second option. After the season is over, the Canes could trade the #1 pick to Pittsburgh for Jordan Staal. Both the #1 and Jordan would have similar cap hits. I also think that Jordan could be better if he got a little more opportunity. He gets overshadowed and rightfully so by Crosby and Malkin. Also, I’m sure Crosby would love a fast scoring winger like Hall to play with over the next 6 years.
Again, I think Hall should be selected by the Canes if possible. But if there are reservations, I wouldn’t mind in the least getting Jordan Staal.
by PackPride17 on Jan 7, 2010 11:11 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The cap hits would be similar, but the Canes are more concerned with $$$ paid out, and there’s a big difference in those (b/c it’s hard to hit all the bonus triggers).
by Cory Lavalette on Jan 8, 2010 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
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