Dangers of the Dreaded "No Trade Clause"
by Bob Wage on Feb 3, 2010 7:00 AM EST
250 comments
There has been a lot of talk around the league about what a great addition Ray Whitney would be to any team looking to help themselves down the playoff stretch. The winger's name has been mentioned almost every day in a variety of possible scenarios.
Yesterday, Bob McKenzie from TSN reported that Whitney was almost traded to the Los Angeles Kings, but when he was approached for approval because of the "no trade clause" built into his contract, he demanded a three year contract extension.
"The Wizard" is known for his practical jokes, but no one was amused with his request. Many thought the 37 year old would be reasonable when it came to doing what was best for the team, but if what McKenzie is reporting is true, then that obviously is not the case. And really, why should it be?
Whitney is in the twilight of his career and is most likely looking to exploit the situation. One probably should not blame a player for doing that because they only have so many years in which to make the millions that they make.
But one might ask the question, why does he have the "No Trade Clause" to begin with?
It would seem that these types of clauses, which give players so much control and literally tie the hands of general managers, would be few and far between. But not so with the Hurricanes.
For instance Niclas Wallin also has one, and has used it in the past when the Hurricanes tried to trade him previously. It's been reported that the franchise would like to try to trade him again right now, and there has been interest by other teams. But why would he approve the deal?
Players who request "no trade clauses", probably want them because they do not want to move. So it would also seem logical that once they have acquired that right, they would usually be unwilling to waive it, unless the perfect scenario presented itself.
That is probably the case with Whitney, as he might be looking for the perfect scenario, one that would guarantee him a multimillion dollar salary until he's 40 years old.
In the meantime, Jim Rutherford's kindness, (or short-sightedness), could end up costing the Hurricanes the best possible prospects because Whitney is not going to make his decision based upon what is best for the Carolina Hurricanes, he's going to make a decision which best benefits Ray Whitney.
While rumored acquisition target Colten Teubert would be exactly what the doctor ordered to bolster the organization's defensive depth, the Hurricanes might end up with a lower rated prospect because a player has the final say on a trade, and not the general manager.
Hence the danger of the dreaded "no trade clause".
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Exactly.....
This is what I was trying to say yesterday but you said it much better. If this goes the way it looks like it will opinions of Ray might just turn south. If a long term contract is all he wants chances are he may have to put a different sweater on for the remainder of his career. Hate to see him go but I would not sign him with the Canes long term.
Staal + Jussi = GOAL
by canescup on Feb 3, 2010 7:15 AM EST via mobile reply actions
The Biz
This is why I do my best to separate the business side of the NHL with the on-ice side… I hate when contracts and money get mixed in with personalities and production.
If I’m Ray Whitney, of course I look for a long-term deal. You can’t play hockey forever, and while he’s made good money over time, when he retires he’s going to want to take care of his family with whatever he can bring home financially.
Its just tough, because like you said, at age 37, Rutherford probably shouldn’t offer Ray a multi-year deal. Just doesn’t make sense. And so what probably happens is the fans lose out on this one. He very well may retire outside of the Triangle, which would be a shame.
opnions wont change that much
people will still want him at the deadline.
just cause its not working today doesnt mean it wont work at the deadline.
thats why 50 trades happen on deadline day
People will still want him, but HE gets to decide where he goes.
Let’s say team A is offering a 1st and a decent prospect. Team B is offering a 2nd and some mediocre prospect. Team A says there is no way they are signing him long term, while Team B agrees to do so. Whitney waives his NTC for Team B and the Hurricanes get the lesser return.
We got screwed by Wallin’s NTC a few years back. If the “rumor” DeCock mentioned back then was true, we either would have had Pitkanen a year earlier or Christian Ehrhoff. Either would have been massive improvements both short-term and long term over Wallin. We probably were throwing in something else substantial in that deal, but unless it was something ridiculous it would have improved the team. Instead we sit through a beyond terrible season from Wallin and miss the playoffs.
Now we potentially get a lesser return on Whitney for the same reason. The nightmare scenario is that he pulls a Sundin and refused to waive his NTC to go anywhere and then signs somewhere else in the offseason.
Oh, and Scott Walker has a NTC as well. Scott Walker! WHY?!?!
This is just JR’s blind loyalty coming back to bite him again.
Remember he's THE WIZARD.
Ray is a smart guy and he has the upper hand. Demanding a long extension could be nothing more than leverage for getting JR to lock something down for him here. JR has basically said as much.
I could be totally wrong but I have a feeling he doesn’t want to move.
Prediction
Ray gets rented for some prospects, he comes back here in the summer and signs a two year extension. That works for our team, it works for the other team, it works for Ray, it works for his family.
by TOS on Feb 3, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
I think when it comes down to it, Ray wants financial stability, and stability in general. I’ve heard he loves it here, wants to stay if possible. I agree that these talks with LA and other teams may just be him laying groundwork for a Canes deal.
I’d love nothing more than another couple of years of the Wizard in a Canes jersey, but if he sits here than signs elsewhere in the offseason — that would be a big loss of potential prospects
Whitney as a Rental
I think Whitney will be a rental. It could be two years as TOS predicts; but I am guessing it is only a playoff rental. As much as teams would like to be able to dictate the terms of Whitney’s trade, I think Whitney and Rutherford realize they can create a win-win situation. After all, Whitney is a hockey person; and it makes zero sense for him to burn bridges with the Hurricanes or for the Hurricanes to offend him.
Ray’s unwillingness to help the Hurricanes will not be looked upon fondly by JR. You know how he gets with his personal vendettas.
Personally I’m upset because I would have loved to see Tuebert in a Canes uniform next year.
Before you throw Whitney under the bus
Remember that we have no idea what is actually going on.
From McKenzie’s article:
It’s believed the Kings were prepared to part with a draft pick (not a first-rounder but perhaps a second) and a prospect (the best guess is that it’s one of Regina Pat defenceman Colten Teubert or Manchester Monarch Viacheslav Voinov)…
Speculative to say the least.
this is a litfle sharp IMO at ray.
its early still
teubert and (reportedly) a Second round pick.
NOT ENOUGH
maybe ray and jr are working together
How is that not enough? We would get a very good defensive prospect that was drafted 13th overall not even two years ago and a pick. What are you expecting? Drew Doughty and a 1st?
I’m with you Chris.
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
by LTD on Feb 3, 2010 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
Hindsight is 20/20. JR and genious seem to be farther apart more than ever. How many stupid contracts has JR signed? We’ll never be able to know how much that has hurt the team, but trading Wallin has been a good idea for awhile, but his contract precludes that.
Ray seems to think he has 3 yrs left. He makes 3.5 and some change. What kind of friends would it take to get you to move you family and home? When it comes down to it, it’s a business and Ray is doing what he feels is best for Ray and well he should. Ray isn’t hurting the org., JR screwed the pooch over and over through the years and we are now feeling the burn.
More power to Ray. Wonder if he’d take the GM job for the Canes, we need a new one.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
I agree. We shouldn’t be angry at Whitney for exercising his right to use his NTC. We should be angry at the GM who gave him (along with Hedican, Wallin, Walker, and probably others we aren’t aware of) the NTC and has continuously handed out beyond moronic contracts since 2002 that continue to cripple this team. How nice would it be if we could pool some of the money owed to Brind’amour, LaRose, Samsonov and Cole to go towards a forward who actually belongs in the Top 6 or maybe a Top 4 defenseman?
Knowing JR, the only three-year deal Whitney will be getting is from us. And it will have a NTC.
How nice would it be if we could pool some of the money owed to Brind’amour, LaRose, Samsonov and Cole to go towards a forward who actually belongs in the Top 6 or maybe a Top 4 defenseman?
Even if this team had that free, they would never been in the market for a top free agent. They simply don’t believe in " you have to spend money to make money ". This horrid year will be used as an excuse from now until the end of time to always be 6-10mill under the cap. PK makes Bill Wirtz look like Richard Branson.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 3, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Players don’t pick up and move their families when they’re traded at the deadline.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
If he gets a 3 yr, I know you are wrong.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
If he’s lookin’ for 3 he’s looking to retire on it. He will take his family and his cars. He’s a family guy. May keep a house here, but the family is in tow.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
But that’s Ray decision … that’s not him being forced to move his family. It’s not like when Ozo was dealt to Florida before his huge home wasn’t even done being built.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not so sure. Many kinds of pressure. Ray got his NTC like most are gotten around the league, not handed out as party favors, like around here. He earned it and it gives him the ability to stay where he is or at least control where he goes. Like Wallin (though his wasn’t earned IMO) he can stay and say srew the world or do what he is doing, putting his price on any offer that comes down the pike.
JR’s arrogance destroys this year as anything built but a rebuild starter. If this year went well, Ray would not be looking at a trade, he would be looking at resigning, if he wasn’t already signed.
So my take is JR screwed everything up, beyond anything even comprehencible. Part of the fallout is the team is “forced” to trade Ray. Ray is just doing what is right for Ray. He’s lokking to close out his career somewhere. He had hoped it would be here, but JR’s epic failure has forced many things into reality this year.
So instead of finishing here Rays looking to finish somewhere and I think he will want the longer contract and will absolutly take his family. If he goes, I don’t think he will finish in a Canes sweater either. JR once again is handling a situation poorly.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
Oh, and Hedican refused to waive his NTC in ‘07-’08 to go to the Sharks. So that’s another NTC that screwed us.
And ended up out west any way…
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 3, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
has anyone talked to ray?
werent there interview done where he knew he was going to need to be traded.
There are so many things I want to say about this situation and only a limited amount of time available this morning to discuss a topic that I find very fascinating… sigh… might have to do this in pieces and parts.
There seems to be a lot of “blame” floating around, and I don’t think it’s founded.
You can’t fault a GM for using all of his available “currency” to sign quality players, and that includes no-trade clauses when you may not be able to offer top dollars. Bob, one thing your article doesn’t take into account is how JR compares to other GMs in terms of the number of NTCs handed out and to who. I know there are some stats on that and it would be interesting to know how he compares to the rest of the league, especially against teams that are not in traditional markets and/or don’t spend to the cap.
I’ll be the first to admit I don’t necessarily see handing out NTCs to folks like Scott Walker and Nic Wallin, but I sure don’t question the decision to give one to a player like Ray Whitney.
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
Sorry for the multiple posts…
As to Ray Whitney, IMO he’s earned the right to a NTC, and you can’t fault him for trying to look out for his best interests. This is a guy whose contract was actually bought out at one time, correct?
We would all do the same if we were in his position, and if we didn’t, well, folks like him have agents that remind them of that fact. What happens if he goes somewhere as a rental and flops, and all of a sudden JR doesn’t want him back here? What if he gets injured? He has to protect himself and his family and it’s hard to blame him for wanting to do just that.
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
by LTD on Feb 3, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
You are correct.....
First to Paladin……….JR is the man who put together your ’06 Cup Winning Team. Screwing the pooch may have been a good thing there.
LTD you are correct. JR has to use every weapon at his disposal to get these deals done. No Trade Clauses have a monetary value to everyone involved. It is part of a negotiation. The Clubs dangle this as a carrott and get some takers. Usually in exchange for money. Less salary = long term North Carolina Franchise…. JR knows exactly what he is doing. This is not a mystery to him. Ray has negotiated the NTC and it is his to use as he sees fit. On the one hand it makes trades harder but on the other hand, it keeps good players here…..That is all.
Lightniing in a jar. If it was skill he would of repeated rather than set the record for not making the playoffs after a cup win.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
Moronic argument. Ask anybody in Detroit, Pittsburgh, or DC…
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
The reason two of those teams are in the position they are is because they were horrible over numerous years. During those years, there was probably some fan who did the same thing you are doing, running the whole organization through the mud.
Yea, why bash a failing? Blind support, blind faith. Don’t hold JR accountable, even though he himself does. It also proves my point. Take Detroit. Sucked, got sold in ’82 to Illitch (organization change). started coming along, got Ken Holland into the big seat and a dynasty was born. Pittsburgh, same thing, ownership change and management change and then they are winners.
Case and point, they were horrible, as are the Canes. With upper amnagement changes, they moved on to success. That’s called valid and factual.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
Ownership change? Pittsburgh was dreadful for some time under Lemieux. Also, Shero really didn’t build the Pens — the pieces were in place when he took over.
I think everyone would want to be like Detroit, but even now we’re learning that in a cap world teams will ebbs and flows. Detroit, even tho they’ve had injuries, is not the team they were one or two years ago.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
Blind support, blind faith. Don’t hold JR accountable, even though he himself does. It also proves my point.
Not to be a dick, but when will you realize this is a board of homers. Unless you like fighting losing battles, complaining about it does nothing, you can’t change minds that don’t want to be changed.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 3, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Homers
I don’t know, I disagree. I guess the majority of people here tend to be positive no matter what chnages there are, but I think people here are smart enough to see a poor deal when it happens, and criticism certainly comes when its needed.
I’ve heard plenty of opinions that go against management from time to time.
But as is the case in most tense arguments…most people will never change their minds one way or the other!
I’m a homer because I dont thin PK should fire JR, LOL. Fact is, the fans that want to trade Staal, fire JR and whatever other knee jerk, ignorant reaction these people have when things arent going their way is what brings embarrassing, negative attention to out fanbase. Makes it look like we’re spoiled malcontents that have only been following the league for 10 years.
knee jerk, ignorant
From what I have seen any sort of negative reaction seems to fall under this criteria. If you want to unconditionally follow something w/o question, that already exists. Its called church.
I agree with you on the " Trade Staal " band wagon. For sure, he as acted like a huge child at times, and there can be legit arguments made(see Puck Daddy) as to whether he is a true superstar, but he is by far the best player on the team and trading him for anything short of a player of equal talent/ potential would be ludicrous.
dude the whole homer thing is pretty weak. I Think you have your pro JR folks around here, but that has nothing to do with homerism.
If you think its " weak " please explain how the sycophantic behavior here is not homerism? I am all ears…or eyes in this case. I revert to the comment earlier in post. Any sort of negative reaction, no matter how rational ( and to be fair some irrational flames have been ignited here from time to time) is immediately decried as " knee jerk " or, as you so eloquently put it " weak ". Please feel free to defend your position or at lease explain it if you are going to label someone’s as " Weak ". For example, you could perhaps explain how the every 5th year playoff model we seem to have is good and a result of adept management.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 3, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
not every negative reaction is knee jerk, its when someone is satisfied with last years results and then the following year resorts to the fire any and everyone responsible for this years result solution.
As far as adept management, I guess that would all be relative. Could you name GMs and argue their superiority to JR, sure, but I sure as hell can name more that are inferior, all based on success. If you say the playoffs every 5th year is not acceptable, that leaves me to believe playoff appearences are the model of adept management in your opinion, in which case I’ll argue that one championship is better than 10 non-championship playoff appearances.
which case I’ll argue that one championship is better than 10 non-championship playoff appearances.
Lucid well stated opinion. I can see one cup being better than years of playoff appearances…..until you end up like the Islanders. Would those fans trade those 4 Cups to have an adeptly managed team that could win? I think many would.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 3, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rather use a more recent example being the Sharks. I personally will never forget the cup year where as their fans probably dont want to remember anything from what, the last 6+ years. When a fan from the Canes and Sharks says “here we go again” it has the complete oppsoite meaning. Thats why I’m proud to be a homer.
LOL… I had my Caniac card taken away…. Am I a homer?
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Feb 3, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
You tag his argument “moronic”. I tag yours “arsonist” with a touch of “knee-jerk”.
by drifterscape on Feb 3, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
LOL (sorry Paladin – that is funny)
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by hockeymomof2 on Feb 3, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Pit. was in the crapper for years before they got where they are….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Feb 3, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn’t make JR a good GM. What has he done since? This like saying that Rod Brind’amour is a great defensive player because he won the Selke four seasons ago.
Completely agree — you can’t look at these things season by season necessarily. A draft pick, a trade might take 3-5 years to really pan out the way your long term plan intended.
Not to bring politics into it…but its just like an economic policy decision that doesn’t really get results in the public until maybe a decade later
He had a team go the Conference Finals last year. Not recent enough ? Or not good enough ? Should 26 GM’s be fired for not making it that far ? Maybe he’s just a lucky guy.
He has a team in 28th place this year. He missed the playoffs the two seasons prior to that Conference Finals run. He missed the playoffs two years prior to the Cup run and there probably would have been a third had it not been for the lockout.
Jim Rutherford consistently builds mediocre teams that have potential to go on hot runs. And when they do that, he overrates the team and does nothing except make it worse by simply re-signing most players and replacing a few with inferior versions. His mediocre teams overachieving for brief periods of time are used as evidence of his expert GMing, but his mediocre teams sucking more often than not are completely ignored because WE WON A CUP!!!!!!
His drafting has been BRUTAL and he more often than not hands out terrible contracts.
I wonder what would happen if Eric Staal had 10 points in 44 games this season and had two 30-40 point seasons surrounding a 40 goal season last year. Would people be able to justify his $8.25M contract by saying “but he scored 40 goals last season!!!” and completely ignoring his failure to produce in most other seasons?
We could miss the playoffs for the next five seasons and people would still be here talking about ’06. Every bad contract is justified as simply being a case of “hindsight is 20/20” even if it was plainly obvious it was a bad idea when it was signed. His brutal drafting record is just because the draft is a crapshoot. Etc.
Any team that has over $15M tied up in Brind’amour, LaRose, Cole, Wallin, Walker, and Samsonov does not possess a good GM!
Any team that has over $15M tied up in Brind’amour, LaRose, Cole, Wallin, Walker, and Samsonov…
Big picture, it’s the end of an era that brought us the Cup, the Grail to which all org’s aspire.
They’ve hung on “too long” partially as a means to spread out the cash flow post-Cup for the org and as a foot-tapping move while our most recent draft prospects incubated.
I actually applaud the org for having the intestinal fortitude to learn from the mistakes of the past and discipline themselves to give those gems an extra few months in the AHL.
The reason we’re having to hang onto vets is correctly identified by you as incredibly dismal drafting years for far too long. But, changes were made and the brain trust was expanded (Marshall/Francis/Wesley/Barasso) and you have to admit we’ve had extraordinary draft success in the past few years.
So, although the pipeline was dry when we needed it for replacements post-Cup, I am optimistic that it has been re-built and will supply the base of the pyramid well in future years.
With a healthy draft and player develoment base it is far easier to stay Forever Young and avoid being top-heavy with vets as we are today.
What extraordinary draft success? We’ve had one player from the past few years (Sutter) make any sort of impact in the lineup. I am not at ALL calling the players in the minors busts or whatever, but they haven’t proven ANYTHING at the NHL level.
Dalpe and Bowman were 2 great picks outside the first round. Mike Murphy was an absolute steal in the 5th or 6th round. Boychuk will pan out.
We had it coming to us though after a decade of horrible drafts (Outside of Staal and Ward).
Why does extraordinary draft success have to mean impact in the current line-up? You know most drafted players have to go through this crazy system called the Juniors and the AHL before they make it to the big leagues.
See these leagues are kind of like the NHL in that they have teams (with players) playing against each other. The players that we picked in the draft (Bowman, Dalpe, Boychuk, Murphy) are better than most of the other players in these leagues. My magic-8 ball told me that the better you are in the Juniors/AHL, the better draft pick you are and the better chance you have to contribute for your NHL team.
Dalpe and Bowman
To be fair to the Org, I would dare say that Dalpe was the best move they have made in a long time. Why? Because he was a first rounder on their board and they took him, even though the easiest thing on earth, drafting Jarred Staal, was right there for them. They made a gutsy choice. I don’t know if Paradis is even a bad enough pick to negate the " equipment " it took to go for it like they did.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 3, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Two things on Paradis:
1) It’s Tlusty now, and he’s playing quality minutes every night. Not bad for a late first round pick
2) Paradis was always gonig to be a project. JR takes him when he does because he wasn’t going to be around when he picks again and because he thinks he’s going to have time to wait and see what Paradis does. They still could have traded down a few spots (unless Florida was going to take him).
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
They guy was in the low 80’s as a prospect, no one but this org was going to burn a first rounder on him and I frankly would be shocked if anyone was going to even take him in the second. Of course, we will never know the actual logic on that choice.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 3, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
That 80 is from ISS. CSS has him in the 45-55 range.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Paradis was actually in the high 20s by CSS (tho that is NA skaters and doesn’t include goalies, Euros, ect.).
88 by ISS; 40 by TSN, 48 by McKeen’s, 60 by Hockey news, 39 by Red Line Report.
He graded out at 48 on my list.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rather have the Ferrero (SP?) kid over Paradis or Naked dude…
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Feb 3, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Naked dude
What an unfortunate nickname.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 3, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of “straw man” arguments. What if Eric only scored this or that. What if we miss the playoffs the next 5 years. What if monkeys fly out my…window.
You say his drafting is brutal, but people who follow the Rats say the team is stocked with talent. Past years were a little weak but apparently he’s improved with age.
Granted, his NTC’s have been too frequent in my/our opinion. But there’s a long -term business upside to that in creating an Organization players will want to play for. As opposed to, say, Edmonton.
by drifterscape on Feb 3, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
The drafting used to be brutal, but it’s improved greatly the last few years, especially once the Canes stopped sharing an AHL team.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
especially once the Canes stopped sharing an AHL team.
Considering how the minors are used in hockey as compared to baseball, I don’t think this may have been considered enough. How may guys developer poorly because they were playing a system different from what they ended up playing here and with line mates who would never end up playing with them in the bigs. To be fair to JR, and I want to try to be, this was all beyond his control at the time.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 3, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Look at Anaheim this year … their farm system is a mess b/c they don’t have an AHL affiliate.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, here’s the facts: we will have missed the playoffs five out of the last seven seasons. Success! Great GMing!
MIssed 5 of 9. Convenient of you to leave out a run to the Finals. So yeah, his glass is more than half empty.
Including Pre-cap results is apples and oranges anyhow.
by drifterscape on Feb 3, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
“Jim Rutherford consistently builds mediocre teams that have potential to go on hot runs.”
Just wanted to qoute this remark from you hoping you’ll realize how stupid you sound.
In my opinion that is exactly what he does…. In fact that is exactly what he says he does all his “small market” BS talk.
You understand that Carolina IS a small market and that the revenue sharing in the CBA is a joke at best?
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Yes.
And you understand that this means we will always “consistently build mediocre teams that have a potential to go on hot runs” right?
The crowning achievement since the Cup run was a 6th place finish that resulted in a Conference Finals appearance in which we were swept, surrounded by three years of no playoffs.
Actually, it was a stupid comment now that I think about it. Mediocre was being generous. Rutherford’s teams are BAD more often than not.
I would say that’s pretty good considering our market forces us to work quite a bit under the cap.
As the market matures, in 10 or 15 years it seems reasonable that there will be more consistent attendance and there is nowhere to go but up.
As long as the team can stay reasonably close to in the black until then, I’d say it’s a freakin’ amazing success. In the meantime, when we do streak, it’s an awesome thing to behold.
If JRs not able to deal him because of his demands then I hope the dont even try to sign him next year. I doubt any team will give him a 3 year deal at his age with the cap numbers in limbo from year to year.
Eklund was saying something about a poitential ‘big’ trade involving the Flames and Canes, Sutter was the first thing that popped into my head.
Another factor to weigh in: JR and the Canes have a history of treating their guys right. When Jeff O’s brother died and Ron Francis wanted a final chance to play in Toronto, JR made both moves happen for those guys, and did so without a huge return. On the flip side, Wesley graciously handled his trade to Toronto the same year Ronnie went — even bought out an ad in the paper thanking the fans, org, ect. — and then came back the following season.
JR has taken care of these guys after the fact, too, with Wes and Ron earning jobs in the org, and O getting a shot in training camp on a tryout basis two seasons ago.
Final bit on this: if Ray didn’t want to go to LA, he should’ve just told JR “I won’t waive my NTC to go there.” But asking for a three-year extension is, IMO, a bad way to handle it. No one looks good in the end, as we’re now seeing.
I was going to bring up JRs loyalty as well and you provided examples of times it was reciprocated by the players. JRs business approach has provided much more pros than cons in cementing a player friendly rep for the organization. That being said, we still have the fans who cant think outside the moment and want to bash JR. He may get screwed this time, we shall see.
I’m a fan of the Hurricanes, not Ray Whitney.
Not waiving teh NTC
I’m not sure if it was bad form on Whitney’s part. If he just says, I don’t want to go to these teams and JR doesn’t even negotiate with them he looses a lot of leverage. I’m sure he’s well aware of what teams will and won’t get turned down.
I’d be shocked if he even got a two-year extension from someone.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, me, too.
Only way that happens is right here. And, even then, it will be a form of money moved around to be given to Ray in exchange for some very sweet return to the Canes for Ray agreeing to go to a team that was nowhere near his first choice as a rental.
We stretch out the payment over two years of service with salary at or below market value.
Why is a two year deal so far fetched? I know the guys is 37, but if you look at the points he puts up, I don’t think it’s that far fetched. What about a 2 year deal for 2.5 the first year and then 1.5 the second? Very reasonable for both the player and the team. Ray gets and extra 1.5 million guaranteed. It allows the team to buy him out for 500K for two years if the second year doesn’t work out.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Maybe in the offseason, but i’d be surprised to see it happen immediately following a trade.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I think in many ways this is like the off-season for Ray. A lot of teams vying for his services and he controls the winner because of the NTC. I also think it may be cheaper for the Kings/Calgary to do it now rather than in the summer. I don’t if the Pens will go more than one year ever. They get to set the terms having the talent that they do.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
I think if Ray is really going to be picky with JR about exactly what team he wants to go to then he might find himself not traded at all and without a Canes extension at the end of the year. JR is doing a favor to Whitney also by letting him get a free shot at a Cup. It is a two-way road, JR doesn’t HAVE to trade Whitney.
Rutherford has plenty of other UFAs to trade. I’m just saying I don’t think JR is just going to give someone Whitney because that is the only team that he will accept a trade too. I’d be willing to bet he would rather just not trade him than receive a crappy return for him (like a 2nd rounder from Pittsburgh).
If they don’t trade then he walks at the end of the season. Ray is the one with the power here. Other GMs want him. JR wants to trade him, but he’s going to have a say in where he goes and try to get what he wants. Things will shift between now and March 3rd.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
That’s my point. I understand he walks, however he stands to gain a lot of money in a potential contract next year by going on a deep Cup run.
JR has the power also. He doesn’t really have to trade him. I was just saying that JR will not just make a deal with the only team Ray will accept a deal to just to trade him. For example, if Ray says he will ONLY accept a trade to Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh will ONLY offer a 2nd round pick… I think he would rather just keep Whitney around the rest of the season.
Good point.
JR could get mad and not give him a Cup run chance if Ray overplays his hand.
by drifterscape on Feb 3, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Not to mention we have plenty of other UFAs who he could be talking to other teams about. Whitney isn’t our only player of value, our long-term success doesn’t hinge on his possible return in a trade. If Ray is going to be picky and high maintenance about the situation then he can play the rest of the season here, leave on bad terms, not get the extra money/interest he would have from playing in the playoffs, and still not have an extension for next year.
Ray will get a contract next season regardless of him going to the playoffs or not. If he stays here he’ll still sign in Pittsburgh. His value is known and his status is not in doubt. The only thing that keeps Whitney from signing next season is an injury.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Oh I agree he would definitely get a contract. But I think you would have to agree a deep Cup run on an all-star team like Pittsburgh or Washington would increase his value significantly.
I actually don’t think a cup run will up his value too much. He’s a 37 year old. A cup run will be nice, but teams already know what he can do. He’s done it consistently. I think at best a cup run gets him an extra 500K. He’s going to be slotted in at around 2.5, maybe less if he goes to Pitt. A good cup run won’t up his value beyond the $3 mil range, and if he takes it it will likely be on a young team like Colorado who makes no guarntees of being great. Not playing in the playoffs may actually help him in that teams know he’ll be rested come the start of the season, which is very important for a player his age.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
BTW, not Capitalizing the C in Cup drives Canadians and other elitists crazy. So maybe you’re on to something there…
I think if he goes on a Cup run with someone like Pitt, he is far more likely to be re-signed to decent contract (2 or so years in length) by the Penguins simply because he worked out well for them in the playoffs. Much similar to Bill Guerin.
I would be shocked if Pitt offered Whitney more than a 1 year deal. They’re going to be up against the cap with Malkin, Crosby, Staal, and Fluerry. They won’t give anyone like Whitney more than a one year deal. They can’t afford to have a guy that age retire.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
It goes both ways … Ray doesn’t have all the power.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Not all, but he’s in the catbird seat as the saying goes down here.
On a side note, where does that phrase come from?
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Origin of catbird seat per Wikipedia.
Essentially from the labor-intensive “seat” a Gray Catbird built to attract a mate, first used in the South, but picked up by sports announcers as part of their patter.
Love origins of phrases like this.
Thanks for the info. I can’t believe there is a bird actually named a “catbird”.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
related to thrashers, actually. Both are mimids.
And that ends my geekfest into bird knowledge.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
mockingbirds, too …. now we can come full circle with a “Dumb & Dumber” reference.
Mock!
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Just my opinion, but if I have learned anything about JR… It is that if you rub him the wrong way or become difficult to deal with from his GM standpoint, you are in for a bumpy ride and he will remember it down the road.
That is why I believe it is possible if Whitney becomes too high maintenance JR will just say screw it and move on to Cullen, Corvo, Wallin, ect.
There was talk (from the press here) that if the team were unable to trade Ray Whitney then they may visit extending Ray Whitney through next season….
But again… all of this is speculation and could all be completely false…. Nobody really knows what is going on except for Ray, JR, and whoever may have called about him….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Feb 3, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Come on.........
No one looks good in the end???? This is business. They are all adults. It is not personal. That NTC is leverage for Ray…he should get what he can. I am sure his agent is looking at every angle. Like Chess….that is why it is interesting.
My whole point is with JR it is personal. Like I mentioned, he looks at the human side of things to, not just the bottom line.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
And Cory — that’s why I tend to see JR as a great GM. I know its not popular among some fans to put so much value on the “human side” rather than only looking at things from a business point of view…but come on. I tend to think of hockey guys as being a little more “human” than their counterparts say, in the NFL.
I’d rather JR make a sub-par move or two because he was using his heart rather than just treat his guys as players on a roster sheet.
FYI...The players in the NFL
are just as human as NHL players. That is a pretty strange comment you make.
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
Just to clarify… I more meant that I see players, front office, etc surrounding hockey making decisions less on the business side, sometimes putting more emphasis on where they want to play, or who their teammates are.
Certainly a generalization on my part, but having covered a couple NFL teams in the past, I just tend to see players make more decisions based SOLEY on business. It’s pretty rare these days for instance that NFL players remain with one or even just two teams for their entire career.
And that’s probably more so just because there’s so much more money in the NFL than in hockey.
The human side works two ways. JR treats his players like human beings and it helps him and the team stand out from the rest of the NHL. It’s something that attracts players here. That said, this, and the inability to move Wallin previously, is the downside. You take a stand somewhere. I personally like it because I think it’s what has to be done to compete as a small market team, but it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Is no one considering that Bob McKenzie’s source in the matter fudged facts? Everyone seems to be taking his report for gospel as if TSN/ESPN has never misreported in the past? Until I hear an Alex Burrows-type interview, I’ll be sceptical of this report. Until then: damn ya’ll are quick to throw someone under the bus.
It was reported previously that he was seeking an extension with potential teams that were alledgedly proposed to him. Sort of farfetched for Mckenzie to just throw out that he was seeking a 3 year extension without some inside knowledge.
yeah, but breaking that negotiations rule is pretty taboo – I don’t buy it. I’d rather point fingers when the fog clears, that way I know who I’m pointing at.
I don’t blame Ray for using his NTC to his advantage but using the multi-year deal to move worries me. Maybe I’m selfish for wanting him to be rented out and then resign here, year to year until he’s done playing.
Staal + Jussi = GOAL
by canescup on Feb 3, 2010 9:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I want the same thing
I’m a huge fan of Ray Whitney and I really want him to retire here. As a Hurricane.
If Ray Whitney does not retire a Carolina Hurricane, I'll go egg Jim Rutherfords car and TP his house.
as much as many of us here woud love to keep the " speculation and rumor mongering going …all of us will know for sure once and when JR does anyting with anyone on the team…but seeing we all love soap operas and etc…I guess things here are exactly as we want them…“Normal” …by the way….how much dividens of you carolina hurricanes stock pay this last quarter ? how much was that again ?? i didn’t hear you the first time…
If you think you can't, you won't !
A few things so far unmentioned
1) Is it possible Ray wants a two-year deal and in order to get that he asked for three when LA offered a one-year extension?
2) Is it possible that The Canes and Ray are on the same page trying to get Tuebert and a first instead of Tuebert and a second?
3) Who leaked all of this to McKenzie? Whitney’s Agent? No way. A 37 year old asking for a three year extension is foolish in this NHL. Is it maybe the team who did it to set a market and maybe get Pittsburgh or Calgary involved?
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
this is why its unhealthy for the fanbase to throw ray under the bus when he is going to be one of our best assets over the next month
Asset at what? Winning at this point hurts the franchise in the long run. We don’t need Ray to carry us into the playoffs, if anything we need his spot to start bringing up Rats and assessing our future needs.
Trade asset – but yes, +1 to what you said…
by Andrea's evil twin on Feb 3, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Nobody is really throwing Ray under the bus....
Just stating what might happen and what he wants. We all know its his decision to make.
Staal + Jussi = GOAL
by canescup on Feb 3, 2010 10:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Negotiations in progress
Negotiations are akin to bidding a bridge hand. You’re not describing the entire hand, but simply flashing glimpses of a yet-to-be-defined whole. Others will form opinions of what the hand is based on your bids, but no one knows what’s in the hand but the bidder.
Assuming for the moment that the information is correct (and he’s not just guessing, someone told him this account), what do we now know?
Whitney has “said” that he will go to a team that he probably does not consider to be a contender this year, but is admittedly on the rise with good years close and that he probably does not prefer for his family (just a gut feel, since he likes it here, the opposite of there).
His price? Three years of stability for the family, guaranteed income before retirement, and a chance to catch a piece of the glory years pending in LA.
Doesn’t mean three years is his price for all situations. Just this one.
And, we now know one of the facets of Ray Whitney and what motivates him. And, this info may help other GM’s formulate offers.
Not necessarily copycat offers at all. Just ones that address the concerns. Family stability (which could include not moving them at all via rental/return) and some stream of income to close out the career (dollars may vary based on other factors like place and length).
Experienced negotiators, which every GM, agent, and even some players are, can work with this.
Patience. Something will emerge.
He’s going to sign in Pitt in the off-season if he’s a FA unless some other team throws a load of money or years at him. Whitney would dominate in Pitt.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
i think we under estimate the family end.
in my opinion ray will sign in Carolina this summer, unless he finds a long term deal of 2 or three years.
he wants security.
and moving away i nthe offseason doesnt make sense unless he can find a long term deal, which i doubt any teams other than carolina will offer.
like if pitt gets him in at the deadline while offering a two year ext, id take it too.
If you had the Chance to play with Sidney Crosby, even if only for a year, you’d take it. Ray is no different. If you think he won’t sign in Pitt this summer you’re crazy. The money will be decent, the distance from family won’t be bad, and best of all he’ll get to play on a line with Crosby and on a PP with Malkin, Staal and whoever plays D in that unit.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Hopfully something that includes a round-trip fare.
by drifterscape on Feb 3, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Paladin have you ever had anything nice to say. Detroit has given out more NTC/NMC’s than the Canes have. Why dont you go be the rain cloud for their blog. You lose a ton of credibility with me, because its never anything positive. I firmly believe you simply get off on bitching. Your the guy who wins a 100 million dollar lottery just to spend the rest of your life bitching how all you got left is 50 mil after taxes! Some of you guys are like watching a tennis match….“JR’s a genious!!”….“JR’s a moron!”……“JR’s a genious!”…..and so on. Like some of the commenters here have already noted, a ntc is a negotiating tool. With out the NTC we’d probably not been able to keep a guy like whit, or we’d of had to over pay. Then yall’d bitch about that. Im happy with JR, and Im happy with my team.
Well, the ‘Canes are a team that runs hot and cold. Ask fans from Toronto if they’ll trade our teams success over the past 7 years for theirs, and you might get some takers.
Well, of course, because they are fans of the Maple Leafs and have not made the playoffs since the lockout. They would trade their success since the lockout for any other team’s…even Florida’s.
Okay, bad choice of Toronto. Take any other example of a team who consistently makes the playoffs and then exits. The point is, in recent years, we don’t always make the playoffs, but when we do, it’s a deep run. Nothing to sneeze at.
i have to say i disagree with this.
i dont think the hurricanes ARE a hot and cold team.
i just that is simply what has happened.
there is nothing that says the canes cant become a good team for more than one season.
i dont think we should doom our team to streakiness.
Well we are on a one game losing streak.
If we win tonight, someone will be talking about playoffs tomorrow.
by drifterscape on Feb 3, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Yes. Ray Whitney is currently the devil for not waiving his NTC. Tomorrow people will be suggesting we sign him for three years with a NTC and bring back Wallin as well.
They do have cool nicknames. And they’re nice people.
by drifterscape on Feb 3, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
It’s amazing how polarized folk from the same fanbase can be on any given subject. It’s nice to see the passion though.
GM of CanesCountry.com
It's all good.
I kinda hoped for a poll – not sure the wording of the question, but to make it easier for readers to weigh in without getting dirtied up here in the comments….Sometimes the most extreme opinions show up in the comments but a more moderate view in the polls (often with 500+ votes).
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by hockeymomof2 on Feb 3, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Excellent point. Remember when they made Staal captain, the comments seemed to be mostly negative, yet the poll results were resoundingly positive.
No question this is a loaded one though. A lot of different views on who the bad guy is. With Puck Daddy giving us the link, we may get a broad sampling on the matter.
I would think the Canes offices would like to know the temperature of the fans on this too….especially with Ray’s popularity.. Not like they can put the poll on the official page. LOL! That would be funny.
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by hockeymomof2 on Feb 3, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Excellent – I just voted. Thanks.
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
by hockeymomof2 on Feb 3, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I just use a different head than you do...
"If me and King Kong went into an alley, only one of us would come out. And it wouldn't be the monkey."
"I don't really trust a sane person."
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight." The one and only Lyle Alzado
Cool – Hope you don’t mind it I pick it up in my next C&C for those who don’t scan 100’s of comments. Thanks!
GM and soothsayer of the Unofficial Hurricanes' fishtank.
Up this week: Introducing Sutter-fish.
completely off topic
Can you still listen to “NHL Live” on the internet? I can’t find a link anywhere.
Here's some stats on success since the lockout in the EC
In the five years since the lockout… (this year’s place in the standings is factored in, but not in playoff appearances)
1. New Jersey: 2.8 avg. finish, four appearances
2. Ottawa: 5.6, 3
2. Buffalo: 5.6, 2
4. Pittsburgh: 6.0, 3
5. Philadelphia: 6.2, 3
6. Montreal: 6.6, 3
7. Rangers: 6.8, 4
7. Washington: 6.8, 2
9. Carolina: 8.6, 2
10. Boston: 9.4, 2
11. Islanders: 10.2, 1
11. Atlanta: 10.2, 1
13. Tampa Bay: 10.4, 2
13. Florida: 10.4, 0
15. Toronto: 11.2, 0
Use the numbers as you see fit, but I’m guessing at least Montreal, Philly, Buffalo and Ottawa would swap places if it meant they had one Cup.
Great numbers… I just think people see so much of only the short-term and forget that it’s HARD to make the playoffs. Turns out there’s lots of other teams trying to make it too!
One cup and hell of a nice run to the Eastern Conference finals in a four year span certainly doesn’t happen to every team.
Very interesting list. ‘Canes are in the mid 5-team group.
Need to have a good 2010-11 that’s for sure.
If i said please would you do a list for the West ?
by drifterscape on Feb 3, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
All this is based on speculation… but still… I would not be upset or Angry w/ Ray Whitney at all for blocking a trade… or even for wanting a contract extension….
What’s wrong w/ one of our best players wanting to continue to play here? Ray Whitney has not done anything to hurt our team….
by Mateos_Canes_Lamp on Feb 3, 2010 12:48 PM EST reply actions
Where was this confirmed by the Hurricanes organization?
Other than speculation by some sports web site writer anyways?
If Ray Whitney does not retire a Carolina Hurricane, I'll go egg Jim Rutherfords car and TP his house.
This is why NTCs are always terrible ideas. You can never predict when you’ll need to trade a player. All the NTC does is handicap the team long term. They need to be outlawed in the next CBA. I know people will complain about players having to uproot their families when they get traded, but isn’t that one of the chances you take when you take the job? I thought that’s why they were paid seven digit salaries to play a sport most of us on here pay to do…
NTC are a two way street. Teams can not give them if they don’t want.
An NTC helps a team sign a player to a lower value contract. What I’m surprised about is that teams don’t start doing NTCs that last only until a month before the trade deadline on the last year of the players deal.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
Ray Whitney and the NTC
I respectfully disagree with Bob’s premise that if Whitney were asking L.A. for a three year deal, he would be unreasonable. I also disagree that Jim Rutherford is likely to be upset with Whitney for Whitney’s exercising his legal rights under an arm’s length negotiation. Even if one assumes McKenzie is accurate about the underlying facts — and that is a huge, huge leap of faith — it is entirely inconsistent with both Whitney’s and Rutherford’s personality that they would not be working cooperatively.
I am convinced the long-term plan is for Whitney to become part of the Hurricane organization. I am equally convinced the Hurricanes will get a first round draft choice for Whitney.
With respect to Jim Rutheford as a GM, in my view he does an excellent job. I think the first round selections have been good with some exceptions. The scouting staff has to bear some degree of responsibility in failures and lapses; and it is also difficult to be gauge the true potential of players picked in rounds 20 to 30. In recent years, the improvement over all of NHL scouting has made the top ten picks easier to discern. Very few teams would not take the Hurricanes’ record over the past five years over theirs.
from eklund, some funny stuff:
“I am also told that certain (a possible Team USA D-man) would have come with Ray to LA. What I am told differently than Bob was told is Whitney was only looking for one more year, not three. Still hearing the Pens.”
I like Eklund, but the only possible team USA D-man the Canes have is Gleason. He came from LA. He’s not going back there. That’s a Carolina thing.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
you do … yecccch. He could mean Corvo, too, since some have curiously thrown his name into the mix.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
If we trade Ray for anything, it better not be without a #1 pick at least. A second rounder and some prospect doesn’t cut it in my view. It better be a first and a decent up and coming prospect, or a second and a well established young scorer. One of the two.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
I would’ve been giddy with Teubert. He could be a punishing stay-at-home guy down the road.
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know enough about him to pass any judgment. Like Chris said though, him and a 1st would be fine.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t_pzYtFwyE
This is what he has made a name doing. He lays out biggins like this all the time. Solid in his own zone, projected top-4 D, and doesn’t have any problem knocking guys off the puck.
canes just activated Corvo from the IR
does this mean they are taking a chance on carson and keeping him up for the rest of the season
since you would either have to send him down now, or keep him for the duration of the season (without having to sen dhim through waivers))
Ruutu moved to IR … maybe they’re going to dress seven D?
by Cory Lavalette on Feb 3, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Ray an L.A.
I live less than a minute down the road from Mr. Whitney and in the past 6 months he has almost doubled the size of his house with additions. I seriously doubt he wants to move now.
Congruence of Information; Whitney and the Hurricanes Organization
Every piece of information I have seen, read, and heard has the same congruence of information: Whitney is very well-regarded by the Hurricanes organization and Whitney has high regard for the coaches, Jim Rutherford, and the Hurricanes organization. It makes virtually no sense for Whitney to uproot his family and to lose the opportunity to remain in the Hurricanes organization after he retires for an extra year or an extra two years of his NHL career. The truth is that the Hurricanes organization will want Whitney as long as he can play. The fiasco with Brind’Amour and the incredible patience the Hurricanes organization has shown with Brind’Amour is positive proof of the Hurricanes’ loyalty to its players.
Whitney is extremely intelligent and articulate. There is zero chance he is not openly discussing with Jim Rutherford Whitney’s thoughts and desires. Jim Rutherford has earned the respect of players by being forthright and professional in his dealings with the players. Rutherford has been clear that he wants to re-sign Whitney if he can.
In short, both Whitney and Rutherford have legitimate concerns that need to be addressed. They will find a solution that is fair and rational to both sides.
I don’t know that Carolina will want Whitney next year. It only makes sense to keep him if they’re competitive. They’ll go a lot farther down the road to being competitive if they can move Whitney for something, especially if it’s Tubert.
5 seconds left.
Do you believe in miracles?
YES!!
I think of all the Veterans...
Whitney is the only one I’ve heard Rutherford mention a few times about wanting to re-sign. Various interviews over the past 6 months. Just b/c he’s a Veteran doesn’t mean he’ll automatically lose the magic like Brind’Amour has.
If Ray Whitney does not retire a Carolina Hurricane, I'll go egg Jim Rutherfords car and TP his house.
Unfortunately that’s what everyone said about Rod. Re-signing veteran guys is all right but past a players prime you should probably expect that they are going to get worse every year.
I’d be fine with them re-signing Whitney to a $1.5-2 million 1 year deal as long as he isn’t their solution to a first line winger. We seem to constantly run into the problem of slotting guys where they don’t belong. Just because Chad Larose scored a career high 31 points last year on the 4th-3rd line doesn’t mean he is still growing and he will become a top-6 guy. It means he is a good 3rd-4th liner and that is where he belongs.
Ever since the Cup year it seems JR has re-signed guys in hopes that they will fill the top roles of people who leave but it just doesn’t work like that. We forget the reason we won the Cup in the first place is because we were deep, Larose and Cullen played the 3rd line. Now they expect these guys to move up and they just don’t have the talent.
I didn’t read through the entire thread, so excuse me if this has been brought up. If the proposed trade and refusal is true, maybe Ray didn’t want to move all the way across the country. I don’t know the age of his kids, but if they are in school – it would be difficult on them, moving in the middle of the school year. So leaving his family here, while he is on the left coast might not be his cup of tea. Maybe he wouldn’t mind moving to another east coast team.
Regarding if he nixed every trade and then signed somewhere else – I would probably lose some respect for him, if he did this.
Regarding JR job performance – it is very confusing why so many middle to low range players received NTC’s. Maybe he is not as smart as we all once thought. I think it was just a sign of the time when the majority of these players were signed. If he can turn some of these aging players into solid prospects, I will forgive him for the rough year.
by PackPride17 on Feb 3, 2010 6:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Ray's not after the money...
…as much as he wants to play for the Cup again. The Kings are up and coming, but not ready to win it this year. So he says “give me 3 years”…that would a pot gold at the end of a rainbow…and if the Kings gave it to him – he’d take it. But he really doesn’t want to go there as a rental…they’re a couple of years away and that’s about all he’s got left. Another guy in another blog says says the ‘Canes might just pay back the Pens for the Recchi rental…hmmmm…that’s an interesting thought.
Ray can help any team, but the Pens might be his best fit for premium playing time on a legit cup contender. In any case, Ray’s seems to classy to stick it to the ‘Canes and the ’Canes understand that their best deal might not be his best deal. In the end, I hope they both shake hands and move on with a smile. I’d love to see him back with ‘Canes next year, I don’t know that Tripp could do an interview without him. But if he has to go….this native black and golder would love to see him in a Pens uniform for the next 4 or 5 months…18 or 30 would be sweeter still.
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