Trade Speculations - Whitney
by PackPride17 on Feb 6, 2010 1:10 PM EST
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With two trade deadlines right around the corner, I thought I would give you my take on what teams might be interested in our players and what I feel we should be looking for in return. The Canes players listed are the players that I feel have a shot of being traded. The teams interested in them are teams that I feel could use their services. The players, prospects, and draft picks are what I think we could get in return for said player. This obviously does not mean that these are the only options out there, these are just my opinions.
I am breaking the FanPost down by players, because one FanPost would be just too large. I am going to start off with our most coveted play, Ray Whitney. Other players will follow over the next couple of days. Please let me know what you think, what players/prospects would you be interested in, and what possible trades you would like to see.
Ray Whitney – Pittsburgh, Ottawa, Vancouver, Boston, LA, Buffalo
Pittsburgh – I think this would be the best fit for Ray. He could be lined up with Crosby or Malkin and help make those dynamic players even better. He could use his crisp passing to set up chances and also be the sniper that Crosby has long needed. I believe he would have an immediate impact on Pittsburgh’s struggling power play.
The players that interest me are LW-Eric Tangradi, LW-Luca Caputi, and D-Simon Despres. I have read that Pittsburgh is up against the cap, so unless the Canes take back some salary – the deal will not be done or have to wait until the March 3rd deadline.
Ottawa – I think Ray could fill in on the 2nd line for an injured Nick Foligno. He would provide more offense and should mess pretty well with Spezza and Kovalev. Ray would add to some of the Ottawa players’ playoff experience and he actually knows what it is like to win one.
The players that interest me are F-Peter Regin, D-Jared Cowen, D-Patrick Wiercioch, and C-Jim O’Brien. Ottawa is also somewhat crunched by the cap and I have read that Ray doesn’t want to go to Canada. Either case, I don’t feel this would be the best trade partner for Ray.
Vancouver – This is the team that I feel would give Ray the best shot at another Cup. He would probably fit on the 2nd line, because their not disturbing the Sedin chemistry. He could also help them on their power play. The biggest thing Ray could bring to the Canucks is his “winning” playoff experience. This team has playoff experience, but they haven’t won a whole lot of playoff games, Ray could show them how. Vancouver is primed for a true Cup run and Ray would be an ideal piece to add.
The players that interest me are F-Mason Raymond and RW-Michael Gradner. Yet another team with cap issues, we would probably have to take back an expiring contract in any deal. The same thing in Ottawa holds true here; if Ray doesn’t want to go to Canada, this could be a problem. But, this team IMO has a better shot of winning it all than the Sens; would that effect Ray decision?
Boston – This team needs offensive help, but Ray and the Bruins don’t make a lot of sense to me. Boston looks to be heading in the wrong direction and Ray is simply a rental. So if Boston doesn’t turn things around, Ray will not be going to “the Hub of Hockey.” He would help a team that needs scoring and a line of Whitney-Savard-Lucic could be very dangerous.
The players that interest me are F-Blake Wheeler, C-Jordan Caron, D-Yuri Alexandrov, and D-Tommy Cross. The problem is the Bruins could be sellers and there would be no reason for Ray. If I was Eklund, this would have a minus-E3 rating.
Los Angeles – This would be another very good fit for “The Wizard.” He would add playoff experience to a very young team and still contributes on the score sheet. He could work in many different areas for the Kings, but would probably be on their 2nd line and PP.
The players that interest me are D-Thomas Hickey, F-Oscar Moller, D-Colton Teubert, and C-Trevor Lewis. Yeah I know Schenn should be included, but their not going to give him up. This might seem out of the question since Ray supposedly turned down a trade already, but anything is still possible and we don’t know the details of that alleged trade. I think LA and Pittsburgh are the most logical trade partner for Ray and the Hurricanes.
Buffalo – Buffalo could use help on the offensive side, but I really would hate to see Ray in a Sabres jersey. He would provide PP help and could fit on multiple lines. The city of Buffalo needs something to hang its hat on and a long playoff run by the Sabres would help. Could they stand pat, yes; but even they know, without some added firepower, they are not getting by teams like Pittsburgh, New Jersey, and Washington.
The players that interest me are RW-Zack Kassian, C-Paul Gausted, D-Mike Weber, and D-Marc-Andre Gragnani. The Buffalo organization is what I consider tight and I think they are unlikely to make a major move. I think picking up Ray would be a wise decision for them, but would they offer us anything of value in return? I don’t think a trade to Buffalo is likely to happen.
Here are the trades that I would like to see happen, in order of which one I would most like to see.
Trade LW-Ray Whitney, D-Harrison Reed, and our 3rd round pick to Vancouver for F-Mason Raymond, D-Brad Lukowich, and a 2nd round pick.
We would get an exciting young forward in Raymond, take back an expiring contract in Lukowich for some cap relief for Vancouver, and pick up a probable low 2nd. They would get the best rental player available in Whitney, an expiring two-way contract in Harrison, and a high 3rd to make up for losing the young, talented Raymond.
Trade LW-Ray Whitney and our 3rd round pick to Pittsburgh for (LW-Eric Tangradi or LW-Luca Caputi), LW-Matt Cooke, and a 1st round pick.
We would get a young LW with potential in Tangradi or Caputi, take back an expiring contract in Cooke for some cap relief for Pittsburgh, and pick up a probably low 1st. They would get Whitney to pair with Crosby and/or Malkin and a high 3rd to make up for losing one of their young prospects.
Trade LW-Ray Whitney to Los Angeles for (D-Thomas Hickey or D-Colton Teubert) and a conditional 1st round pick.
We would get a young offensive defenseman in Hickey or a young defensive defenseman in Teubert and a potential 1st round pick if LA makes it out of the first round of the playoffs (it would be a 2nd round pick if they lose in the first round). They would get a playoff tested LW that could handle the pressure of playoff hockey.
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Some good ideas, however, I still maintain that we should get nothing, and I mean nothing less than a 1st round pick and at least one prospect. With the deal the thrashers got for kovalchuk, that should be our measuring stick (which is why t was good with him being traded now).
Yes, Whitney isn’t as great of an offensive player as kovalchuk is, but he is a great offensive guy, and has terrific experience. Not only that, but he is the best the market has to offer now, and any team that wants an offensive punch will bid for his services. Jr better take the best deal he can get.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
I understand what you are saying about a 1st and we could probably get a 1st and mid-level prospect from most teams. I just would perfer to get a top-level prospect and AT LEAST a 2nd.
I do also think that a lot of us here maybe over-valuing our players. Since most will be rentals, we may not get as much as we want for our UFA’s. Just look at the Kovalchuk deal. Atlanta did not get that much for that type of player. They got a #4 defensive defenseman, a good not great rookie forward, an average prospect, a probable low 1st and they had to include a prospect with Kovalchuk. To me, Atlanta got hosed in the deal and their GM should be fired.
by PackPride17 on Feb 6, 2010 2:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think that Kovalchuk's contract demands, a reported $11 million per year, drove down his trade value.
"He has all the virtues I dislike, and none of the vices I admire." -Sir Winston Churchill
by SouthernHockeyFan on Feb 6, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, what GM wants to think about having to re-sign a guy that turned down a $100+ million dollar offer? Talk about high maintenance.
I would say they got a pretty decent deal for Kovy. NJ paid out the ass basically just to have a better shot at the Cup. I mean I know that Kovalchuk is a superstar, maybe a top-5 player in the NHL, however I can’t imagine that having Kovy vs. having Whitney come join your team would be that world-alteringly different. Both are going to provide some good offense as a proven first line winger, score some goals (probably similar amounts of points even), and spark your team.
If we got a first and a decent prospect alone for Whitney I think we would all be very happy. Atlanta got a 1st, a decent prospect, a decent top-4 D, and a decent 2nd-3rd line rookie forward for Kovy. I think they made out alright.
Sorry little confusing. I mean to say I don’t really think you are going to get that much more actual value of having Kovalchuk come join your team solely for the playoffs than having Ray Whitney come join your team just for the playoffs.
In fact from a leadership aspect, I think Ray probably even has the advantage as he has already won a Cup and is a veteran presence. Kovy hasn’t even won a playoff game, ever. As I said both will likely play on the first line left-wing slot, both will put up similar amounts of points, both are going to give your team another level of offense. Due to the circumstances both are currently being viewed (or were viewed in Kovy’s case) as a pure rental. If Kovy can get a top-4 D, 2nd-3rd line rookie, top-prospect, and 1st overall pick…. We should be able to manage a 1st rounder and a top-prospect or an elite prospect and 2nd rounder.
Kovalchuk and Whitney will put up similar numbers of points? Are you serious? 60 points in 51 games vs. 43 points in 56 games. That’s basically the difference between elite superstar production and borderline 1st line numbers.
And Kovalchuk not winning a playoff game ever probably has something to do with his team making the playoffs a grand total of one time.
Kovalchuk>>>>>>>Whitney and it’s not close.
I think that people are going to be very disappointed come deadline. I’ve now heard that a 2nd for Wallin is not enough, that Whitney shouldn’t be traded for Mason Raymond, and that Whitney has comparable value to Kovalchuk. Wow.
Yes… In my opinion Kovalchuk and Whitney will put up a similar amount of points in a playoff rental situation. Why is that hard to believe? It’s not like Kovalchuk will put up 40 points and Whitney only 5. Realistically Whitney is like a 0.75 goals per playoff game average while Kovalchuk is 0.75-1. They will both provide an offensive spark for the team they are dealt to, both play left wing and are capable of playing the 1st line. I doubt Kovalchuk is even NJ #1 Left Winger, they have Parise who is arguably better if not equal.
Of course Kovalchuk > Whitney. Of course any team would take Kovalchuk over Whitney given the chance. I was simply saying that they really aren’t an ocean apart in the effect they would have on a Cup contending team and that if Kovalchuk is worth a 1st round pick, a top prospect, a youn top-4 D-man, and a guy who is playing the 2nd-3rd line capably as a Rookie… Then Whitney is worth a 1st rounder and a top prospect or a 2nd rounder and an elite prospect.
The year that the Trashers did make the playoffs (06-07 season) their team was pretty stacked. They had both Kovalchuk and Hossa. In fact they won the SE division that year with 97 points only to be embarrassingly swept in the first round by the NY Rangers. You say Atlanta has always been a bad team but that is just not true. Kovalchuk has played alongside the likes of Savard, Heatley, and Hossa for almost a decade and led his team to nothing.
To say NJ paid out of their ass is crazy to me. I know Ilya’s demands drove down his price, but you still think they could have got something of value. I’m sorry, but not one of those players is anything above average. Even the 1st, which could be 25th or after, is probably only projected to be a solid role player.
I’m just saying I would perfer at least one young good player, like a Brown from LA, in exchange for Ilya.
by PackPride17 on Feb 6, 2010 3:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree that Lou probably fleeced Atlanta on this one, but only if they win the cup and re-sign him long term.
If NJ fails to resign Kovy then it becomes apparent why the return was so low. That being said, I would bet that JR never swings that deal, especially with weeks to go until the trade deadline. What if Kovolchuk dominates during the Olympics, seems that would drive his value up even further.
"He has all the virtues I dislike, and none of the vices I admire." -Sir Winston Churchill
by SouthernHockeyFan on Feb 6, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately the circumstance of the situation made it so that Kovalchuk was purely a rental. You get him for the playoffs and then he is walking, what GM is going to throw away the whole future of his franchise to get a player for 4-28 games? Kovy has NEVER even won a playoff game? Who is to say he won’t turn out to be a typical Russian disappearing act (Pavel Datsyuk anyone?) come playoff times?
Yes, that would be pathetic if Kovalchuk registered over a point per game while helping his team to the Stanley Cup like Datsyuk did just two seasons ago. If Datsyuk disappears in the playoffs, then so does Whitney.
You mention that Kovalchuk is purely a rental. Well, Whitney will be 38 at the start of next season and has a very limited number of good years left. Oh, and it wouldn’t be impossible for NJ to re-sign Kovalchuk.
You are being completely delusional if you think that Whitney is remotely close to Kovalchuk in trade value. Bringing up how many playoff games Kovalchuk won while playing his entire career with the friggin’ Thrashers is just grasping at straws.
What I said was if Kovy is worth a young top-4 D, a Rookie who is currently capable of playing the 2nd-3rd line, a top prospect, and a 1st round draft pick then Whitney is worth a 1st round draft pick and a top prospect or a 2nd round draft pick and an elite prospect…
How are those 2 trades comparable at all? You see how one is much less than the other right?
Whitney is close in that trade value because he is the best offensive player on the market now. All JR has to do is sit on his lurals and wait until March 3 and let teams pay out the ass for him. They will do that, simply because of the guy’s experience and propencity to be a prominent PP guy and first liner. Teams value expeience a helluva lot more than you are giving them credit for to. I believe the same will be true of Corvo when he is put out as trade bait (in the sense that he is a big time PP guy and has PO experience).
Whitney will demand a first rounder and at least one prospect. Anything less and JR will get fleeced on this deal. And with kovalchuck going now, this was the best case scenario for JR and the Canes, leaving Whitney as the next top prize on the market.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Kahz is just a troll. Notice he hasn’t come back out from under his bridge to defend all his “Wallin will never be worth a 2nd round pick, you all are stupid” spew.
Whitney will be traded before the Olympic Freeze, I’d bet the house on it. I’d be willing to bet there are at least 10+ interested teams and JR has said repeatedly he would prefer to make his deals before the Olympics instead of the March 3rd deadline. I’d personally prefer an Elite prospect (maybe someone like Pietrangelo, Hickey, or Ekman-Larsson) and a 2nd… but a top prospect and a 1st is likely.
Great observations here.
I like the Pittsburgh deal. Tangradi would be a nice addition. The LA deal is also a great idea. I also liked the Teubert deal. Pens or Kings are my picks, but who knows?
That's Chuck and the letter 'K'
The only deal I like is with the Kings. Raymond is decent but he is definitely not a 1st line winger and we are already stocked to the rafters with potential 2nd-3rd line wingers. I think it’s pointless to trade for mediocre 2nd-3rd line wingers at this point, we already have more than we have spots to put them in. Same with Tangradi, he just hasn’t looked good enough to fill out only forward need.
I’d rather take someone like Teubert or Hickey. If Boston was still desperate to make the playoffs I’d love to have their first round pick, it could easily turn out to be a 5th-15th Overall.
I think JR will definitely go after a young D top-prospect (Such as Hickey/Teubert/Voynov). I could also see Whitney be traded to the Rangers for McDonagh or Sanguetti and their 1st rounder.
St Louis is looking to be out of the running but if they made a last minute push and were looking for some scoring (They did come out and say they were after Kovalchuk after all was said and done) I’d love to have Pietrangelo and a 2nd or so.
Pheonix, whom we have also been linked to in trade speculation, has some solid young top-prospect D in Oliver Ekman-Larsson whom they might give up if they got desperate enough… which may very well be the case seeing as their whole franchise existence in Pheonix likely depends on them winning a few playoff games.
As mentioned, Ottawa has both Erik Karlsson and Jared Cowen (both projected top-4 or top pairing guys) to deal and they will probably look to bolster their scoring for the playoffs as well.
Washington has both Karl Alzner and John Carlson who are intriguing and both playing very well on arguably the most dominant team in the AHL (Washington’s Hershey Bears).
Obviously a lot of choices, I’d be happy to see any coming back.
We’re going to have to disagree on this one. If you expect to get a sure-fire 1st liner with any deal we make, you are fooling yourself. Carolina only has 1 true 1st liner in Staal. Hell, Nashville has none. IMO, even Ray is only a borderline 1st liner. On most playoff teams, he will be fitting in their 2nd lines.
Also, I think Raymond is a solid 2nd liner that could develop into a top line guy. He very fast, knows how to put the puck in the net, and is still very young. To call him medicore – you must not have seen him play. Tangradi, I agree he hasn’t put it together yet. If and when he does, he’ll be really good. Either way, he should be a solid NHL player. And he’s different from our other LW prospects. How? He actually has some size, unlike our mighty mite patrol.
I will say that if St. Louis is interested in Whitney, that would be great. If Peterangelo is available (which I doubt), we should jump at a deal.
Againm I know 1st are great, but with a somewhat shallow draft – the low 1st are probably not going to be or turn into 1st line players. I would be happy to get top-level prospects with potential + some 2nds. I also would love to get Raymond.
by PackPride17 on Feb 6, 2010 4:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah we won’t get a 1st line guy for Whitney. I think Whitney is borderline 1st liner (he certainly was, however he is getting older), Ruutu is probably more of a first line fit in my opinion in the Banger with decent offensive output and space-maker role.
I have watched Raymond a lot, I am impressed and he has great speed but he has not shown the amount of skill I would expect in a developing 1st liner. Solid 2nd liner yes, however my biggest pet-peeve with the Canes is that they habitually slot guys in higher lines than they belong. That and we have far too many 2nd-3rd line wingers, far more than we have spots. Same with Tangradi, I was very interested in him last year but he just hasn’t shown himself to be a stand-out. If we could move out a guy like Samsonov, Cole, or Larose I would be all for it.
I’d obviously rather have a D top-prospect than a 1st round pick. Pietrangelo may be available simply due to the fact that the Blues’ only real assets are him and their young core (Berglund/Oshie/Perron/E. Johnson/ect.) and they have marketed the crap out of their young forwards so they probably can’t afford to trade them. Plus they also have a surplus of young D. If they really need a scorer for a playoff run Pietrangelo is probably their best asset. I wouldn’t have pegged St. Louis as a big seller, but all the reports of them making offer for Kovy made me question that.
I actually think that Whitney was never really a 1st liner. I also think that Ruutu is really a 2nd liner also. My opinion is that Carolina being a budget team will not have a true group of 1st liners except if they acquire them through the draft. That being said, I think if we have a solid group of 2nd liners and have a few play with Staal, we should be fine. I actually believe that Jussi does a very good job with Staal and Jussi is not a legitmate 1st liner.
I concur completely in needed to revamp the defense. I agree that a top 4 defenseman (perferable young) is this team’s biggest need. I would love to get Marc Staal or Braydon Coburn, but I don’t know how to work a deal for either of them.
by PackPride17 on Feb 6, 2010 6:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think we just have different definitions of first line players. I’d generally say a “first liner” would be a forward capable of putting up 70 points. Few teams are able to field a whole 1st line of Star forwards (Washington comes to mind with Semin/Backstrom/Ovi). However in most cases, such as Washington, they spread those 3 out among their top 2 lines anyway.
I agree about Jussi, I think his chemistry with Staal is pretty undeniable though. Call me a Jussi fanboy but I think if anyone on our team has the young age, skill-set, and drive to develop into a consistent first liner I think it is the Juice.
Jokinen on the First Line
I have been impressed with Jokinen ever since he came to Carolina. He has been amazing this year and really has shown how much potential he has when on the first line.
Yeah… I remember specifically this past off-season Jokinen was quoted saying that he thought he had a different level in himself and he was going to work hard over the Summer to bring that out. I think we are seeing the results now, who knows… He could develop playing alongside Staal even more.
I remember that interview as well; and I thought Jokinen was deadly serious about making the total sacrifice it took to reach another level. I read some comments at the start of this season from Chip Alexander that some people felt Jokinen had not worked hard enough in the off-season. I disagreed with that statement. I think Jokinen is highly cerebral and knew what he needed to do to make the next step. I think if Staal and Jokinen can be put on a line with a large, fast, physical, scoring winger, Jokinen could be even more amazing that he is now.
Oh yeah, I will agree that if we could Boston’s 1st and a mid-level prospect, we should do it. That could be a top 10 pick. Now that is a draft position where you could get a guy that will be/develop into a 1st liner or top pairing guy.
by PackPride17 on Feb 6, 2010 4:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Raymond is thirteen years younger than Whitney and has precisely one less point and five more goals. If Raymond is a mediocre 2nd liner, then so is Whitney…so why would any team trade a 1st liner for a mediocre 2nd line rental?
You wouldn’t trade Whitney for a 24-year old on pace for a 30G-30A-60PT season?
im with you kahz
its absurd to think that van. would trade raymond for ray…
yes, the fact that kov. is gone does drive rays trade value up, BUT – lets be reasonable about what ray can bring us.
Just as Kovys rejectected 10 mil per season offer hurt the thrasters, Rays desire to stay in carolina will hurt the hurricanes. Both are veiwed as pure rentals right now. The Canes will be lucky to get a first and a mid-level prospect in return.
Ray will probably sign with the canes in the offseason for 4.5 mil for one season.
Just to point out, Raymond is not currently a 1st liner. I think he could develop into one, but he’s not one yet.
And you ask why Vancouver would trade Raymond for Whitney. Whitney has Cup experience and Vancouver has a real Cup shot this year. The also have some salary cap issues, this season and next. Whitney has an expiring contract, Raymond is a RFA and will expect a little raise, and Vancouver has a couple of other players that would need to be signed.
by PackPride17 on Feb 8, 2010 6:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Boston
When Boston lost to Vancouver in a SO Saturday, I remarked to elskling that no doubt Boston would now go into panic mode.
Eklund jumps into the breech with this post earlier today:
Apparently last night’s loss was a “straw the broke the camel’s back loss” and I was told the Bruins are now aggressively talking to teams. While I hate attaching times to rumors, the Bruins are going to make a move in the next 48 hours I was told. I was also told the Bruins are now the top of the pack for Ray Whitney.
Yeah, I read that today also. Whitney is a good player, but he is not going to turn this Boston team around. If I were Boston; I would just play out the rest of the season and grab two top 10 picks. Currently, they would have the #2 and #7 pick.
But if they want to throw either of those picks at us for Whitney, then go right ahead.
Short term or Long Term Vision
If Boston wants to take its best shot at a playoff run, it should trade one of its first round draft choices for Whitney. If Boston wants to set itself up for the future, it will hold on to both its first round picks. It is much easier to trade a first round pick if a team already has two; but if I were the Boston GM, I’d hold on to both first round picks.
Packpride,
I actually think that Whitney was never really a 1st liner. I also think that Ruutu is really a 2nd liner also.
I like where your head is at now. You are 100% right!..Jussi does have good chemistry with Staal…but still a 2nd liner. Staal has been played with a true 1st line talent. In the Cup run he, Cole and Stillman had great chemistry but again neither guys are 1st line talent.
For Whitney, yes the Kings or Pens have what we need in young D or Big Power Forward in Tangradi.
Boston best asset would be it’s 1st rd pick or Joe Colbourne? I think I spelled that right
Whitney to Kings
Now normally I don’t believe anything Eklund says, but his latest report today suggesting that the Kings are back in on Whitney and the Rangers are going to deal for a top-6 Winger in the next day or so due to Gaborik’s injury make 100% sense to me.
I think a deal will certainly get done by the trade deadline on Friday (3pm) for Whitney to either the Rangers or the Kings. Both of those teams have the top-4 potential defensive prospects we are looking for.
My Guess:
Whitney to NY for Ryan McDonagh or Bobby Sanguinetti and a 2nd
or Whitney to LA for Colten Tuebert or Thomas Hickey and a 2nd.
Maybe we go big with:
Whitney, Corvo, and Buffalo’s 2nd Round pick to NY for Marc Staal and a Cap piece (Brashear maybe)
Personally I think giving up Corvo, Whitney and Buff’s 2nd for only Staal is too much. Don’t get me wrong I think Staal is a solid shut down defenseman, definitely top 4. However, there is talk that Whitney and Corvo alone each could command a 1st round pick or high level prospect. Also, the two previous deals you suggest that Whitney is worth a high level prospect and a 2nd from the Kings or Rangers. But why would including Corvo and a decent 2nd only yield us Staal and Brashear.
Realistically I don’t expect a 1st round pick or a high end prospect, rather I would be happy with a 2nd and a mid-level prospect. JR drove the asking price up when he was able to deal Wallin and a 5th for a 2nd. Every other GM won’t meet his demands, but it does give him a bargaining chip.
Interesting Article Suggesting Cullen Trade Will Come Any Day
Interesting Article Suggesting Cullen Trade Will Come Any Day
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2010/02/08/daily35.html
President and General Manager Jim Rutherford says he expects to trade Matt Cullen before the Olympic roster freeze, which runs Feb. 12-28, and Ray Whitney after the break but before the March 3 trade deadline.
“They are unrestricted free agents at the end of the year so come July, we may make a run for them to come back,” Rutherford says. “But for now, with Scott Walker, Chad LaRose and Eric Cole ready to come in and contribute, I believe we will be OK.”
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