Ray Whitney Stays Home: Opportunity Lost for Carolina Franchise?
by Bob Wage on Mar 3, 2010 11:40 PM EST
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Ever since Ilya Kovalchuk was traded to New Jersey about a month ago, the word around the NHL was that Carolina Hurricanes winger Ray Whitney was the most valuable asset available before the trade deadline.
Jim Rutherford was asking a healthy price for the talented player, a first round and second round draft pick, (or the equivalent) but it appeared that at least Los Angeles was willing to match that offer. According to Bob McKenzie, the Kings offered up former first round pick, Colten Teubert and a second round pick for Whitney's services. Rutherford admitted bringing a deal (from a Western Conference team), to Whitney, but the winger vetoed the deal.
Bottom line, Whitney did not want to be traded.
After much anticipation from at least some of the fanbase, nothing happened with Whitney today and it seems like a rare opportunity to add a valuable prospect or two for a temporary, rental player, slipped away.
How rare was this opportunity? When was the last time an available Carolina player was valued this high at the trade deadline? When is the last time the team could have gotten a first round draft pick and more, for a rental?
First of all, it's unusual that a team is in such a poor position to be in genuine selling mode this early in March. Few teams are this low in the standings. But Carolina is in this unenviable position, and Whitney is unrestricted at year end, making him a perfect rental.
Whitney was given a no-movement clause in his contract, giving him the right to cancel any possible deal. These clauses are not unusual for top-level players but several players remove the clauses so that deals can be made in the right situation.
Obviously, that perfect situation never came up for Whitney.
In most cases, players want to play for Championships. They want to play for the Cup. They want to increase their value by playing for a winning team.
Rutherford said today that no other team offered enough for the winger, but why not take a lower value? Instead of a first and second rounder, why not just take a first, or just a second? Why not just take a young prospect?
Whitney could always be re-signed in a few short months anyway.
Some fans say that they would rather have Whitney stay here for the rest of the season, but at what cost? A valuable prospect like Teubert could end up contributing to this franchise for the next 10 years. Is losing that worth watching Ray Whitney perform for another 10 home games?
And what if Whitney walks in July? The Canes get nothing. Isn't any prospect better than nothing?
It's hard to understand why Los Angeles would be the only team in the league to offer a fair return for the most valuable asset available this trade deadline.
Now the Canes approach a possible worst case scenario for the season. They might end up playing well enough to be out of the cellar, but poorly enough not to make the playoffs. If that happens, then they would not qualify for a top level, elite draft pick.
On top of that, they end up not being able to capitalize on a top rental player's value when they have the opportunity.
Prospects and draft picks are more important then ever in this salary cap age, especially for a small market team.
How do you feel? Are you happy with the way things went with Whitney?
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This is what pissed me off today. The other trades were fine, but how could we not get something done here?? F’in A Ray! Take a 2 month vacation, win a cup, and then come back home!
NO MORE no trade clauses!!
Still not a crook!
all right chicken little
“worst case scenario” ppfff!!!
i am very happy whitney stayed.
you can’t fault a man for wanting to stay home. another cup with another team be damned.
ray is at or close to the end of a long career in the NHL, if he was to move it was going to be worth HIS while.
he didn’t want to go to LA. I wouldn’t either. LA is a STINK HOLE. with prostitutes and thugs.
sure one more pick or two would have been nice but with all the 2nd and lower round picks we have, we’ll be OK.
and he will sign this summer …
GO CANES!!!
I'm from LA
and I never had the pleasure of meeting those people, the prostitutes and thugs.
That’s why I visit the HR departments of the places I work to see those people.
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
i'm from pismo beach
and I HAVE seen these people in LA
by jej on Mar 4, 2010 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
and in
Chicago back in the 50’s,60’s & 70’s was the same way…now what wasa called hoodlums,crooks and creeps are now thugs…gee have we gotten sophisticated or what ?
Relax !! Even Micro Wave Popcorn takes time !! Go Canes !!
Then your not from LA. LA scares everybody that’s doesn’t live there. Just like NYC.
Eric Staal...Team Canada first line
by drifterscape on Mar 4, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
I said none of the above——-because you left out a choice.
Whitney deserves to call his own shot, and he loves the Canes .He and JR
have a great respect for each other and JR is okay with it —-so it is all good
GO CANES! Go Heels!
This entire thread is all very well-said but I’m having a hard time reading it because everything is being posted in italics! Attempting to post an end control character to fix it, if this doesn’t work can someone help?
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
by Jamie Kellner on Mar 4, 2010 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
That didn’t work :-(
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
by Jamie Kellner on Mar 4, 2010 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
Which is why I also voted "None of the Above"
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
Well Said
I think the choices are highly misleading. There is no indication that LA was willing to trade for Ray Whitney as a rental. My understanding is that LA required Whitney to sign up for an additional year in LA. Whitney potentially would be giving up opportunities to work with the Hurricanes after his playing career ended. In what strikes me as a reasonable compromise, he offered to do so but only if LA wanted him for three years. LA balked.
Apparently, no other first round pick was offered. Another second round pick, if offered, would be nice but not earth-shattering. I think Jim Rutherford looked at his team and felt he had shed sufficient dead weight and salary that it made sense for the franchise to keep Whitney and work toward next season with the young players and some veteran leadership. That, too, is a rational choice. It is not the only rational choice that could have been made; but it is one supported by logic and experience.
So if Ray and JR are such good buddies and do everything for the team why the F didn’t Ray go out and get us good draft pick? No matter what he is up for a contract this summer. So he stays and the team gets crap and we go into negotiations. Or hey, go to LA get the team a good draft pick and the come back this summer and negotiate.
BS, I don’t buy it.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
LA never offered a pure rental deal. If I were Whitney I would have said no. If I were Rutherford I also would say no way.
That is what I have heard and read. It would be great if somebody can get a confirmation from the Hurricanes. I am not a media person and feel it is not appropriate for me to report for attribution anything that isn’t public. I’m just a lowly fan trying to figure out a little bit about hockey.
they don’t tell everything to the media either. :-)
But logic would dictate that when 99% of the deals made at trade deadline are for rental players, that most offers for Whitney would also be as a rental.
It’s also hard to understand why none of the contenders had any valid offers. But you are right, all we can do is talk about it and try to figure it out, like anything else. ;-)
GM of CanesCountry.com
The rumor as reported by McKenzie was that Ray would be a rental, Ray asked for three years, and LA offered 1.
Do not doubt the pimp hand.
thats what I heard. LA’s counter offer was one year. Not initial offer.
by CarolinaCanes on Mar 4, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
On NHLHOMEICE the commentators pointed out that this trade deadline no team traded its first round draft choice. I am 100% confident Whitney wants to win another Stanley Cup for the Hurricanes and that he is very, very grateful for the chance he got at Carolina to become a top tier player and to win a Stanley Cup. I also am 100% convinced that Rutherford has tremendous admiration for Whitney.
All of which makes me think that Rutherford had very ambivalent feelings about trading Whitney to get a #20 to #30 first round pick when he already had four picks within the top 60. Rutherford has stated publicly that unless he got a tremendous deal that was too good to turn down, he was not going to trade Whitney. I believe Jim Rutherford made that statement in an interview this morning on XMRadiohomeice.
If the season had started in December, the Hurricanes would be receiving enormous praise for their play. There is no reason to view the team as a total flop team like Toronto. To the contrary, by jettisoning old, slow and non-committed players and replacing them with more talented younger players who take zero shifts off, the Hurricanes are a better team now than before the trade deadline. To be clear, I do not in any way put Cullen, Corvo, or Walker in the group of non-committed players. I think, too, that Alberts’ hitting forte but proclivity for turnovers probably resulted in him being expendable. All of which is to say that it is entirely within the realm of reason that Whitney stayed. Even if the team fails to make the playoffs - which seems almost a certainty - as long as the team finishes with momentum, it can carry that feeling into next season. Trading Whitney risked changing that dynamic when the upside was relatively small in gaining a draft choice in the late picks of the first round — even assuming that were offered.
LA deal
Your take on what went down with LA is exactly mine.
From everything I read, the juicy D-prospect being dangled was for Whitney and a one-year extension, which is reasonable for LA who will need a forward like Ray next season, as well, not just for this season.
Ray said no, which is reasonable, since if he likes Raleigh, I’m guessing he wouldn’t like the opposite. Also leaves him looking for a contract at age 38.
However, he would go, if they would make it a three-year extension and see him out to the end of his career. No way, say they. So, no deal.
I’m fine with all of that.
The counteroffer to Ray’s request for a three year deal was a one-year deal, as per Bob McKenzie. Don’t know if it’s truth or not, but that’s what he reported.
As for LA dangling a D-prospect for a rental, that’s exactly what they would do. They are stacked at D in their system and are likely going to have to hand out some raises after this season. They’re not going to want to guarantee money to Whitney before they direct it to their core players.
Do not doubt the pimp hand.
Only source I can find on this is Bob McKenzie’s original TSN column on the subject.
Every other article simply repeats him.
So, let’s say this is the way it went down. If so, then JR may be privately grumbling a bit about the lost opportunity, and rightly so.
Ray would have been within his contractual rights not to go as a rental, even for good return. But, that would affect how I negotiate with him this summer, if I’m JR and they’re talking. No bonuses for taking one for the team…and no NTC’s, unless for a very healthy discount for all of that security.
well said.
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by Carolyn Christians on Mar 4, 2010 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
try this
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by Carolyn Christians on Mar 4, 2010 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
Irritated- Yes, but its all relative.
I wish we could have traded the wizard for draft picks, but I respect his decision not to be moved. Its not solely his fault; our organization gave him the “no trade clause” in his contract…how can you blame the wizard for enforcing a clause that was freely negotiated as part of his contract- maybe it was the kicker in why he signed it in the first place? Hindsite is always 20-20.
Regarding the ‘Canes in general, I truly enjoyed last season (every darn momment, every game 7, every victory) but by the time we made the ECF, and got swept, I wondered if it was better for their future, or worse, because we should all admit that they just got HOT in the playoffs and probably didn’t deserve to go as far as they did.
But for the ’Canes streak last season, we would have had a massive turnover prior to this year. Last season was great, but detrimental at the same time because it caused our organization to think that everything was ok. Our budget was set nearly at the cap, in a small market, with expectations, knowing that missing the playoffs would constitute major monetary ramifications for our team- you cannot blame PK/JR for cutting losses- it is a business after all.
Our team is old, isn’t doing very well, and needs a massive turnover- one that should have happened at the end of last year. We are one of the oldest teams in the league. Nearly all of our trades involved future free agents and replaceable players. On that end, kudos to PK/JR for saving some money, because the alternative has held true- they don’t hold back when we have a chance to win! (heres a thought, how cheap were the Sabres in 2006, they could have grabbed some D-men at the deadline (which they needed badly) when we snagged Weight and Recchi?)
by PittsburghCaniac on Mar 4, 2010 2:01 AM EST reply actions
Brindy needs to go too. His cap hit is 3.6M next year http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=CAR I am a huge fan of him, but that deal is turning out to be one of the worst for the ’Canes. I respect the man for everything that he has ever done for our team, but likewise, he five years younger than Lemieux, who retired in 2005…..Brindy, please note.
by PittsburghCaniac on Mar 4, 2010 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
Presently the Hurricanes are one of the youngest teams and assuming Brind’Amour retires, it will be one of the top three or four youngest teams. It is also one of the hottest teams in the NHL now. In my view, once the Hurricanes unloaded Wallin, the team improved. Similarly now that A. Ward, Yelle, and Walker are no longer filling the roster, the only dubious player on the team is Brind’Amour. There are still two gaps long term — a #3 big, fast, puck moving defenseman who can score and the Jordan Staal type of power forward.
Unfortunately those 2 things that we need are 2 things that we can neither afford nor will pick up in UFA. Our only real chance to get a good player is drafting one.
The Hurricanes 1st round draft pick should yield either a puck moving defenseman who can score or a large framed wing who can play the inside game and score. There are at least ten players in this year’s draft who could make the Hurricanes team as rookies based on the scouting reports and video I’ve seen. I do think that Edmonton is tanking and has decided it wants Taylor Hall badly enough to spend the remaining games being owned by their opponents. Obviously Burke is hating the fact that the worse Toronto plays the more Boston is happy.
I think injuries, particularly Cam’s back and nagging ones to the defense caused by not putting out Boston in five or six games, and the fact that Pittsburgh wasn’t as beaten up as the Canes were, had more to do with the Canes getting swept last season then the team simply going cold.
Do not doubt the pimp hand.
Nice to get on with it...
The trade deadline day (Mar 3) is a pretty neat sports phenomenon. I enjoyed the anticipation and the angst build up until 3pm. In the end, we made decent moves and paved the way for an interesting Summer.
I think we will enjoy the rest of the season as, I believe, the team intends to give 100% towards a goal of slipping into the playoffs. Although http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL.html only gives the Canes a 1.2% chance of making the playoffs, he build that on a season long algorithm. If the bottom 9 teams 7th through 15th place currently finished the season at their current 10 game pace, we end up with 89 points tied with Boston and Atlanta filling out the 7 through 9 positions, Obviously this requires a 16 and 4 finish…which is unlikey but not impossible. We went 14-6 in our last 20 which would not get it done. anyway..stranger things have happened.
Exnihilo
Boychuck and Harrison are enroute…..
Wonder who else if anybody?
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
Here's my take
With the moves that were made the forwards are relatively okay, but the defense is in shambles. Gleason and Pitkanen are the only NHL caliber blue liners we have. Pothier is servicable but could be injured if he’s looked at wrong. Picard is still young. Carson is relatively solid, but better hidden on a third pair on a deep team. The sixth spot will be some rotating AHL player.
The picks this team has right now aren’t exactly great. Sure there are three second round picks, but two, Buffalo’s and Ottawa’s, will be at the end of the second. They’re certainly not going to help right away. Hopefully with the uptick in scouting and drafting the team has had they’ll help in the future, but there’s not guarantee of that.
If Ray wants to keep playing here in NC then I would hope he wants to play for the best team possible. There is no doubt that if he went to LA for the remainder of the season and the Canes got Tuebert and a second this team would be better next year then they will be with Ray staying. Tuebert would likely fill a spot on the blue line on the second pair. After that the Canes would have three spots to fill with some combination of McBain, Carson, Harrison, Borer (towards the end of the year if he can regain form) and free agents. At most the Canes would need to sign one second pair blue liner to at least have a shot at competing next season. Now, without Tuebert, the Canes need to come up with an entire second pair, which may have to come from the FA market and won’t be cheap.
If Ray just wants to play out the tail of his career here, and doesn’t care about what the team looks like then I don’t want him around. In a small market a team cannot afford to keep players who aren’t looking out for the best interests of the franchise. JR always goes with character guys, sometimes at the expense of talent. He also never throws a player under the bus or call them out in the media. He sells his franchise to players as a place where the ownership and GM will treat them with respect and decency. I feel like Ray hasn’t reciprocated that feeling and that makes me question his desire to play to win over the rest of his career. It also makes me question if the Hurricanes are in Ray’s plans after this season. For everyone who is okay with Ray sticking around, ask yourself how you will feel if he signs elsewhere in the off-season. Ask yourself if he holds the Canes up for a three year deal, and we’re talking about him in two years the way we’re now talking about Brind’Amour. Will you still be okay that Ray didn’t move?
Lastly, JR needs to start writing these NTCs such that they expire on Feb 1 of a players final year. It’s not all together unheard of, and fairly common from some teams. I now he has to give some security since he doesn’t often compete on price. I understand that and recognize that fact. That said, JR needs to not bind his hands so tightly.
Do not doubt the pimp hand.
very well said, I realy like the last paragraph.
I was wondering if that could be done, I hadn’t noticed it before so I had no idea. I think that is a good comprimise on a full NMC
by CarolinaCanes on Mar 4, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of NTC end in the final year. Tomas Kaberle’s NTC will be negated for the final year of his deal after the Leafs fail to make the playoffs.
To me, it seems like an easy thing to do. The NTC is negated if the team is in the bottom five in the standings of the conference anytime between Feb 1 and March 1 of the final year.
Do not doubt the pimp hand.
I think people need to go listen to Rutherford’s interview on the Fan yesterday so they can quit blaming Ray. JR basically said after the first offer to a western team was nixed he listened to subsequent offers, however, JR decided it was in the best interest of the team to keep Ray because they were comfortable with other offers they thought they could get to dump salary with other players so they didn’t bring him any other offers to nix.
Have you seen my playoff tickets?
JR is putting a positive spin on Whitney staying. The facts are that he didn’t get the deal he wanted, so he stood strong on his position. We could have used another prospect or pick, but we didn’t get it and have to move forward. Hopefully, JR will parlay the picks we have into something good.
by GG3 on Mar 4, 2010 8:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think the fanbase is making a mistake in thinking Whitney WAS available!
He wasn’t available. He has a no trade clause!
And, if he plays for the ‘Canes next year…. guess what?
He’ll have a No Trade clause!
OT:
The Empreror Tim Gleason will be on 620 the Buzz in another mninute.
here:
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by Carolyn Christians on Mar 4, 2010 8:25 AM EST reply actions
oops, Here’s the link: http://den-a.plr.liquidcompass.net/player/flash/audio_player.php?id=WDNCAM&uid=227
On now.
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by Carolyn Christians on Mar 4, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
This is great. Talking about Oly games.
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by Carolyn Christians on Mar 4, 2010 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
its obvious ray wanted to be a rental and when LA didnt want that he offered an unrealistic extension, in order to keep him self on the market.
i agree that maybe this scared some teams off, but idont think this is the end of the world. we basically still have the same team, except on D, and now we have pletny more draft picks because of it.
Regardless of what
happened or didn’t happened,we fans will just do what we have always have done…option A: is go on in our support of the whole team and fill as many seats as we can…or option B: is rant,rave and stay away and sell your ST…and go elsewhere. and no folks there is NO Option C…it’s either or..after all that is the business of “sports” Pro,college,HS and etc…it’s an either or situation…each of us has to make our own choice…Grant you, we’d all like to think or believe we can and do make an impact …and we can if we ALL stayed away…but in this case…that would be far too overboard to really get all bent out of shape about…but to each of us…no one’s opinions or thoughts are no more important that our own is there ??
Persoanlly for now it’s done and over…am excoted for some sad for other moves/trades…but the Cane’s are still here, and will do better for he balance of this season..after all, that’s all we have left isn’t it ? Be safe and enjoy tonites game there @ the RBCC
Relax !! Even Micro Wave Popcorn takes time !! Go Canes !!
I think it's easy to assume...
…that sports players have no problem packing up their lives and moving somewhere else. And for a lot of them it might be, but I know that if my boss asked me to move across the country for two to three months, and I didn’t get any additional form of compensation, I would be hard pressed to say yes. Never mind if I had kids that would be staying behind.
apples and oranges…..Players ultimate goal should be to win a cup every year so to sacarafice 2-3 months in order to be given an opportunity to do so doesnt seem unreasonable.
But Ray has won a cup
For me it’s not unreasonable to think at this point in his life he won’t have different priorities. He’s not a young man dreaming of a championship. He’s had a great career and already won it all. I’m not saying he’s not wanting to win the cup, but it might not be the driving for in his life.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Remember folks, players DO NOT get extra pay when they’re in the playoffs
No, they don’t get extra pay but they do get a shot at what they say is their dream which is a chance to win a Stanley Cup. Its cool though, I’m sure we will watch JR hand out Ray 2 or 3 year deal and we can have the privilege of watching two 40 year olds on the ice get skated around in circles. If you don’t think Whitney will in a few years then you’re kidding yourself. The fall is fast and steep – see Brindy and A Ward. Yesterday was about one thing: Dump salary and be as cheap as possible regardless if it sets the team up better in the future.
Dumping salary was an objective no doubt and understandably. if you have a problem with that then become part owner and make it rain.
by Killswitch on Mar 4, 2010 6:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I just felt that we could have and should have gotten back something for Ray. My whole problem with this trade deadline is that I don’t see any of these trades really helping us in the immediate future. When you are trading away players who can play now for also-rans and draft picks, that points to a rebuilding of a franchise. Call me crazy, but what else do you label it as?
Unless we can package these picks with a player and get back into the top 10 of the draft, I do not see this as a positive for next season. Pothier is basically a throwaway (common opinion on CC), while Osala is seen as a kid who can step in now. Hopefully by the end of the season we can all see what he can do. But I do not see this really helping us right now.
JR isn’t one to sign big name FA, so the only reason he would “salary dump” is to make PK happy. Well, that doesn’t quite make this Canes fan all that happy.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
When your 27th in the league with only 20 games remaining, what “immediate future” are you talking about? And I want someone to explain to me what “good, immediate impact roster player” they think we could’ve gotten? If you think a contending team would trade us a “good, immediate impact roster player” for our “good, immediate impact roster player” at the deadline, then you simply dont understand the trading deadline. Yes, getting something for Whitney and then resigning him in the offseason would have been great, and Im kinda mad at Ray for not going, but all these expectations of us acquiring a top to mid level roster player is ridiculous.
What I mean by the “immediate future” is next year. And by a “good, immediate impact roster player” (which isn’t really what I meant), I mean another player like Osala or like the Tlusty deal earlier this year. All of these draft picks do nothing for next year, unless, as I said, they are traded to get back into the first round. I do understand the trade deadline, I know we were sellers.
However, that doesn’t mean would could not have gotten at least one more AHL kid who another team wasn’t willing to wait for to play in the NHL. That is what I was disappointed with. Did I expect us to get a kovy back for our trades? Hell no. I am not that stupid. Did I want to get more guys like Tlusty and Osala back? Hell yes.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
which trade that we made do you think we should of gotten some return on? Cullen = roster player, Corvo = solid prospect, Tlusty we got in a straight up trade. No way AWard, or Yelle, or Walker were gonna yield a prospect. Had Whitney accepted a deal, as I think he should have, then yea, this deadline could’ve been more successful.
The Whitney trade is what I have been referring to this whole post. We needed to trade him to get a pick and a solid prospect in return. Obviously we were not going to get that for anyone else. But Ray should have been traded. This year is over and done. Either JR or Ray should have done what was best for this franchise and shipped him off to LA.
IDK who to blame here, but something should have gave here.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
Some exactly like Colten Teubert. There are plenty of top prospects that haven’t made it to the NHL. These are generally what teams trade around along with draft picks at the trade deadline for rentals.
I think a deal didn’t get done because we have played so well in 2010. If I were JR this trade deadline was a Win-Win.
1) We sent out $2 million in actual salary, free money
2) We screwed our Defense enough that we will give up a ton of goals and lose games, therefore still locking up a top-3 draft pick. Especially while Cam is out.
3) We didn’t lose any offensive production so the home games will still be high scoring and draw lots of fans, even if we lose.
4) You don’t get the STH that go nuts because we “traded their favorite player” in Whitney dropping their season tickets next season because they are mad A-la last time Cole was traded.
Here’s the thing about not moving Whitney, it delays any re-build this team may need to go through. Throw in Tuebert and an additional second to this team. Then they have a prospect with a legitimate chance to be a second pair guy next year and four second rounders (1 early, 3 late) that could maybe be traded en masses for a couple of late first round picks. You do that, and the team looks solid for years. Staal, Sutter, Ward, Pitkanen, Gleason, Tuebert plus what’s in the system and what would have been drafted this year is a great nucleus that should be good for a while.
When you take out Tuebert and the extra pick the team didn’t get you’re left wondering, or at least I am. What if the team struggles again next year, which could be very possible given the defense? Does Pitkanen then get shipped out? If he does the only player that the team has on blue line would be Gleason and a bunch of hope with the Rats. That doesn’t bode confidence in me.
The team may have appeased some STH’s this season with keeping Ray, but what happens if they go through three or four more years of not being very good but not being bad enough to get top picks? They become the Thrashers or Panthers, who have much worse season ticket bases. It’s penny wise and pound foolish because in the end winning teams put butts in seats.
Do not doubt the pimp hand.
Can you expand on your statement regarding the D? We gave up a top 4 offensive D-man, and two 3rd pairing players, 1 of which has been a huge liability for most of the season. Pothier by all means can handle top 4 on this team and is more defensively sound/less risky than Corvo. Picard can handle a bottom pairing spot on this team and Harrison has already seen time on the team this year. I’m not sure the impact will be what you make it out to be.
Pothier hasn’t been a top four in two years. To say he can handle it is to say McBain can handle it. It’s a possibility but not likely.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
Ray better give us a hometown discount & show up next year
Opportunity wasted, plain and simple.
Folks like to blame JR for giving Ray a NTC, but as mentioned here earlier, a NTC adds value to a player’s contract without spending the cash. So, in essence, it allows the franchise to pay a player less than what they are “worth”. I have no issues with that.
Whether Ray and JR are in cahoots…no one here really knows. But, one would think that if they were in cahoots, Ray would have been rented somewhere for something.
Here is what we do know – Ray is an UFA after this year and he could walk, or, worse, get injured. He could lose several strides in the offseason and be an anchor next year (it wouldnt be the first time we’ve seen a vet lose his game in one offseason).
Could the recent chemistry of Jussi, Ray, and Staal have changed his trading day intentions?
Whatever the case, Ray better give us a hometown discount & show up next year!!!!
Not trying to add fuel to the fire and take it for what it’s worth considering the source, but I thought this was interesting and at least worth noting:
puckdrops Per @SunGarrioch, Whitney was asking for a 3 year, $10.5 million extension from any team that wanted him.
puckdrops Combine that with JR’s asking price of a first rounder (none moved yesterday) & an NHL ready prospect, it’s no wonder Whitney wasn’t moved.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
If JR gives Ray a 3yr $10.5m then I’m not happy. Too long.
If Ray signs somewhere else, for anything, We got played. We got nothing.
If JR gives him 1yr $3.5m NTC, I’m OK with that.
But I have to wonder about the logic where Ray doesn’t want to play for the Cup for the next 3+ months.
Eric Staal...Team Canada first line
by drifterscape on Mar 4, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe…Ray loves being a Hurricane and loves the area and wanted to stay here and felt that staying here was the best opportunity for not only him and his family, but for the team? Why break up such a great line? Maybe he and Rutherford also already have a deal ready to re-sign at the end of the season or sooner and they just are waiting till either the regular season is over or after the Stanley Cup Playoffs? Who knows. Also who knows that a 1st round draft pick would really have helped us anyways? To be honest, unless they are of Crosby or Ovechkin calibre, they won’t be playing in the NHL for at least 1-2 years minimum.
Thank you Jim Rutherford and Ray Whitney for working together for Ray to stay a Hurricane! :)
Wow. All these warm and fuzzy feelings. If Ray loved being a Hurricane so much he wouldn’t have asked for a 3 year extention.
by CarolinaCanes on Mar 4, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
We cannot afford to pay Whitney $3.5 million next year. It won’t be in the budget, especially if we have to pay our top-3 draft pick about $3-3.5 million a year. We NEED another top-4 D. If JR signs Whitney to a $3.5 million dollar a year contract over improving our D then he should be fired.
I think at MOST they could pay Whitney $2 million a year and I think he should accept the hometown discount. He is getting older, no one is going to give him a 3 year $3+ million dollar a year contract.
$3.5 was just conveniently breaking down the rumored $10.5. And its basically what he makes now.
Eric Staal...Team Canada first line
by drifterscape on Mar 4, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah but then they get crazy bonuses that show up against the Cap hit. Hedman, Tavares, and Duchene all have Cap hits of $3.4-3.5 million. It will be interesting to see what Carson and Picard get as RFA’s this offseason. I’m sure management will use this year as an excuse to stay $5-10 million under the Cap for the next decade.
Cap hit is fine, it comes down to real dollars here. I don’t know how all that works. it seems like you guys have a better grasp of that. I figured we couldn’t pay much more than 1m for the year if our first round pick played up in the bigs. But that is soley a guess.
by CarolinaCanes on Mar 4, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
GO RAY!
Silver Medal- "In our business it's winning the whole thing. In five years no one will give a damn. It's who won."- Ron Wilson
by canescup on Mar 4, 2010 10:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I said “none of the above”, but not because none applied, but because more than one applies IMO.
I don’t blame JR for offering Ray a NTC, as mentioned before that is currency that JR has available to him when sometimes cash isn’t. Nor do I blame Ray for exercising a NTC, he’s earned the right to do that.
I’m completely shocked (as recently evidenced by some of my posts) that there wasn’t a last-minute blockbuster deal for Ray yesterday. I thought that was as much of a sure thing as you could get on deadline day, and obviously I was way wrong. And yeah, it disappoints me a little, because I think the best outcome for the franchise would have been a solid return for renting Ray out for the next couple of months.
That being said, having him on the roster and having the possibility of signing him to a REASONABLE (ie neither long or expensive) deal to return next season is not a bad outcome either.
Did JR and Ray overprice themselves? Or were the deals out there just not worth it? Who knows, either are possible. Paraphrasing from a friend who posted on this subject elsewhere, if I have a million dollar house I’m not going to sell it for $500k just because I have a buyer. On the other hand if it’s a hot market and I price it $500k higher than it’s really worth I deserve to have good buyers walk.
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
What if you had a million dollar house and you could rent it for 500K, then move back in after three months? still a bad option?
GM of CanesCountry.com
Actually, Bob, your scenario is more applicable than mine. Baffles me too.
And I’m sorry, but in my job folks get assigned to short-term and long-term travel assignments away from home ALL THE TIME. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal to be on the road for a few months. /shrug
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
by Jamie Kellner on Mar 4, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Rays a hockey player, I’m sure he is used to it aswell. lol. To me it doesn’t seem like that big of a deal, but I too am often away from home for 3-6 months at a time (actually where home is is starting to get blurry)
by CarolinaCanes on Mar 4, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Like I said, I’m still stunned it didn’t happen.
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
by Jamie Kellner on Mar 4, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Loyalty...
It says a lot about the Hurricanes franchise and JR, when players around the league are willing to stay and work through the rebuilding process. There are many teams around the league that players turn down trades, or refuse to sign with(see Edmonton Oilers) …..and Carolina is not one of them! Ray Whitney is a stand up guy, fan fav, and wants to be here! He is one of the most consistent players on the roster over the past few years, and is pretty much a lock for 70 pts a season! Ray deserved his NTC, and can we really be upset that a guy like him wants to stay? I’d love the prospects and picks as well….but this is not a total rebuild going on here. Great work by JR getting anything for the high priced, midlevel, UFA’s that were traded yesterday. Class act sending Yelle to the Avs as well….that’s why guys are willing to come here…and stay…..Loyalty!
Ray is 37. He’ll be 38 in May. Any rebuilding process will take longer than he has years left to play.
As for this not being a total re-build, look at the D. Then ask yourself what this team will do about Pitkanen during the upcoming season. It starts to look like Gleason and a bunch of hope. That makes for a complete re-build. I think the offense looks decent, and if they can get Hall or Seguin it should be okay, but it’s a lot of hoping for prospects to come through.
As for loyalty, how about a player repaying that loyalty by taking one for the team, going somewhere as a rental and coming back in the summer to a team that’s better?
Do not doubt the pimp hand.
Doug Weight did it to come to Carolina and so did the reckin ball. Both resigned witht their fomer team (blues/pens)
by CarolinaCanes on Mar 4, 2010 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Keith Tkachuk has done it so often then have named the move after him. It’s very common.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
That was my point. I am in favor of changing the term from rental to “Tkachuk”
by CarolinaCanes on Mar 4, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Rebuild
I don’t know how long you think the rebuilding process is going to take…but I don’t imagine it’ll be more than a year or two. Even Brian Burke figures he’ll have the Leafs rebuilt in the next couple of years, and I dare say we have a better base to build from than they do! As for taking one for the team….I think he has! If it was all about the money and another quick shot at the cup for Ray….he wouldn’t be a Hurricane today!
As for the defence, I believe it will be addressed in the off season. We’ll get a good look at what the Rats can do for the rest of the season, and there are always affordable D-men available through free agency (look no further than Alberts….try to forget about A.Ward :)
by HowieHurricane on Mar 4, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Brian Burke is seriously back tracking on his few years re-building time period for the Leafs. While the Leafs are in much worse shape, it won’t happen over night here.
Here’s the thing, if you were happy when the Canes acquired Weight of Recchi you can’t be happy that the Canes didn’t move Whitney. Do you know what St. Louis did with that first round pick that we sent them? They turned it in to Patrick Berglund. If that doesn’t upset you, I don’t know what will.
As for affordable UFA defensemen, you’re right, there are usually affordable options out there. They usually aren’t very good though.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
I’m pick’n up what your putting down….I hear ya, the thing is I was happy when the canes signed both of those guys! I understand we gave up some picks, much like another team would have done to get Ray, but you can’t be saying that you’d rather have Patrick Berglund than this franchise’s first stanley cup can you? Some times you have to “give up, to go up” and in our case from 2006…I’d say it worked out well! As far as St. Louis after that trade….how’s their year going?
All in all, I can’t be mad at Ray for making a choice to stay. I think a 2 year deal is probably in order, if we wanted a three year…I’d make sure the salary dropped off in the last two years of the contract…so we don’t have another Rod situation.
by HowieHurricane on Mar 4, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
If you were happy when we acquired Weight and Recchi you should be mad that Whitney didn’t go. Ray, but not moving, prevented the Canes from adding a player on caliber with Berglund, and probably higher if it was Tuebert. Instead of getting that, we get to watch Ray skate 20 meaningless games in a Canes uniform.
Rental players are part of the game.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
I dont consider it a complete rebuild in that you have a core group in place. With the right pieces in place and prospects living up to JRs expectation for them or beyond, they can be competitive.
Ask Tampa what they think about having a core group of players in place.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
Tampa didn’t have the goaltending we do. I also don’t think their core was as big as ours. Their core consisted of Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Richards taking up almost half of their team salary. With secondary players like Ruu,Jussi,Sammy and the only big big contracts going to staal/cam I think we are in much better shape than Tampa was.
by CarolinaCanes on Mar 4, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Khabibulin. He was better than Ward has shown he can be on a consistent basis. As for the core, it had more talented players then the Hurricanes team. Having a core is not enough to ensure success. It takes smart moves, like renting out an aging veteran who only has a couple of seasons left for twenty games and acquiring a young defensive prospect and a pick. If you don’t make those moves then you’re Tampa or Atlanta.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
The No Movement clause
Ray signed his current three-year deal with us right after the ‘06-’07 season ended. Disappointing year for the team, missing the playoffs with 88 points.
But it was a good season for Ray, earning 83 points (32-51) while playing 81 games. Note the 32 goals scored.
Year before that, he helped the org win the Cup with a 55 point (17-38) performance in 63 games played before the 24-game playoff series began (9-6-15).
Both of these years were played for a very affordable $1.5M/yr two-year contract.
For a cash-strapped team, granting a No Trade Clause (NTC) is as good as money, especially if you really have no intention of trading the player involved. Maybe JR will learn the trick of dating that last year at “three days before the trade deadline”, but probably wasn’t a realistic option in this instance.
In this instance, Ray’s agent got him a slightly better version, in that the No Movement Clause prohibits waiving the player or sending them down to the minors to force their hands. Immaterial in this instance, but still first of such clauses I’ve seen a Canes player hold.
So, hopefully understandable how Ray got this clause from an appreciative org, and how it might have real value to him in lieu of more salary. It worked, since he did indeed control his destiny…at least for the remainder of this season, anyway.
I think Whitney would have moved, had there been some agreement by JR to bring him back in Free Agency to a multi year contract. I think that is what Ray asked for, and JR balked. As a result, Ray said no to any trade that did not have a multi year extension attached. In essence, he stuck it to JR, with the very NMC he handed to him.
I will be very shocked to see ray in a canes jersey next year. If I am right then once again, JR drops the ball.
I wouldn’t think JR is too keen on giving a 38 year-old a multi-year deal after what has happened with Brind’Amour. Like its been said, Ray could have shown some loyalty back to team by doing what Doug Weight and Recchi did during the Cup year. Either way, its over now but I know a lot of people who are not thrilled at all with Whitney not waiving his NTC to better the franchise.
Give him a one-year contract in the off-season or let him walk and use that money for a younger player who you could see contributing for a couple of years.
One other option
Did PK/JR shoot themselves in the foot for not being willing to take salary back in return? Would that have free up more teams to offer more? Worth considering at least.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
they may have been willing to take some. They took Pothier back which ate up 2/3 of the salary we saved shipping out Corvo.
If a team was trying to send enough salary back to offset Ray’s salary ,I dont see why they wouldnt do it. It still a wash because we still have to pay Ray.
If a team tried to treat us like the Leafs ,and dump more salary than needed, I’m sure we would have balked big time. That is one advantage the Leafs have $$$$$.
by CarolinaCanes on Mar 4, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
You’d do it because you could get pieces that will help next year. It’s a wash on salary, but not on talent, prospects, and picks.
I’m not saying such a deal came through, but if it did it would have been penny wise and pound foolish. Sometimes to make money you have to spend it. I understand the budget and I understand the limited moves, but limited doesn’t mean none.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
Ray holds the Cards
Ray’s holding all the good cards for this summer negotiation. JR pretty much has to pay him what he wants, or Ray walks and JR gets nothing and looks like Atlanta’s D.Waddell.
As I recall, Ronnie Franchise Himself did it on his last contract. Threatened to go back to Pittsburgh and JR caved for an extra million or two.
But Ronnie took one for the team, as did Wesley, and went to Toronto at the deadline.
Ray’s going to his kids dance recitals or something.
Eric Staal...Team Canada first line
kinda selfish
I think it’s rather selfish that Ray would nix any deal that would send him to a cup contending team AND help us out for the future.
and it’s lame that JR didn’t lower his standards to at LEAST get something as opposed to nothing…like drifter said, if we don’t resign him and Whit leaves in the summer for nothing AND we miss the playoffs, that will look so bad.
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