Hottest Team in NHL Wins Again: Hurricanes 4, Senators 1
by Bob Wage on Mar 4, 2010 10:13 PM EST
184 comments
The Carolina Hurricanes won their seventh game in a row and never skipped a beat after losing five players on trade deadline day as they defeated the Ottawa Senators Thursday night by a score of 4-1. The home team jumped out to a 2-0 lead in the opening period, scored another one in the second, and topped things off with an empty netter with just over a minute to play.
Matt Cullen scored the lone Ottawa goal on a nice wrap-around chance in the third period, but it was too little too late for the visitors.
The fourth line started doing the damage early for the Canes as Tom Kostopoulos opened the scoring at about the five minute mark and Rod Brind`Amour followed up with another tally just a minute and change later.
The quick scores chased starting goaltender Pascal Leclaire, who looked a bit shaky at the start. He was replaced by Brian Elliott.
Rookie Zach Boychuk was credited with assists on both goals. The youngster brought a lot of energy to the line as Brind'Amour scored his 6th goal of the season and Kostopoulos scored his 8th.
Later on in the second period, Eric Staal was attempting to put a shot on goal, but left the puck in the crease as he skated by. Chad LaRose darted in and fired the loose puck into the net to make the score 3-0.
The third period was a defensive one for the Hurricanes as they only put two shots on goal, but they succeeded in keeping the Sens off the board until Matt Cullen skated behind the net and wrapped his chance in with about eight minutes left.
Near the end, Brandon Sutter scrambled for a loose puck at center ice and fired it into the empty net to seal the deal.
Manny Legace made several fine saves in the effort and probably deserved a shutout. He ended up making 25 saves on 26 shots.
Newcomers on defense, Brian Pothier and Alexandre Picard both had very good games. Pothier led the team with five blocked shots, had three hits, and a shot on goal. He made one impressive play in particular in the third when he broke up a two-on-one break by the Sens.
I spoke with the ex-Capital after the game and he said that his new teammates have made him feel right at home.
"This is a tremendous room and everyone has been great so far. The system is a bit different from what I played in DC, but it's a simple system, which is good. I've been able to adapt so far."
The defenseman gave credit to the forwards for his successful debut as a Hurricane.
"The forwards really worked hard and back-pressured all night long. They were a huge help and there were not many odd man rushes to deal with at all in this game."
The team has an optional practice Friday at noon, then will fly to Florida for their matchup with the Panthers on Saturday night.
Game Notes:
- Carolina had 21 shots on goal, led by Kostopoulos with four. The forward seemed to be looking for his shot more in this game and showed a couple of new moves.
- Manny Legace had never beaten the Senators before, but with the victory he now has at least one win against all 30 teams in the NHL. The goalie has been solid as a rock during this winning streak and has four wins in a row.
- Jussi Jokinen's 10 game point streak came to an end, but not due to lack of effort. He and his linemates, Eric Staal and Ray Whitney came close on several occasions.
- Carolina had 34 hits led by Tuomo Ruutu, who had eight. Next highest was Tim Gleason with four.
- There was a good crowd and the announced attendance was 17,048. Many fans got in line to see the Olympic medal display and that was a busy scene.
- As it turned out, some youth on the fourth line might not be a bad thing. That was about the best the line has looked all year long.
- The Canes now have won 9 of their last 11 games and have out-scored their opponents during their seven game winning streak by a 29-12 margin. They have also won seven games in a row at home. Not only have they been winning, they have been dominating.
- They should continue to jump out to leads because they are 22-3-1 when leading after the second period.
The following is a video of Eric Staal's post game interview:
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Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
And you heard about Walker’s first game for the Caps, LTD?
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by hockeymomof2 on Mar 4, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
I saw the tweets!
Fantastic night for Scotty Walker!
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
I am happy for him, but he is a crap now….I can’t get too excited.
by PittsburghCaniac on Mar 5, 2010 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
+1
and we play them sob’s 2 more times. Gonna be tough ones.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
I see a man smoking…
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
Oh, and remember the other night on TV when Paladin said he saw the ‘A’ on the Staal bobbleheads?
The ‘C’ is a sticker.
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
have you checked out the flavor of the game video yet?
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
=)
Yeah, there was something… familiar there.
by Raccoon Fink on Mar 4, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
hahahahahahahahaha
Checked it out as soon as I got home
=D
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
Uhhh LTD
were you dear wearing a blue Finnish Olympic jersey along with some great looking ead hair last night ? If that was you, you were on FSCarolinas last night !!! and speaking of medals…they had a great shot of the 4 together…and what about Scotty…he seemed to have a great night as well…have a god day…and enjoy the sun shine
Relax !! Even Micro Wave Popcorn takes time !! Go Canes !!
A sticker? That’s kind of a shame. I reckon they have them made up well in advance, though…
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
When/if it peels off is the A underneath?
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
All of a sudden we’re scoring goals in droves. Doesn’t that put us at 59 points now? Anyone know the standings? I know, it’s a distant hope.
Or, to put it another way, seven points out of 8th with 19 games left….
by OriginalCaniac on Mar 4, 2010 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Not at all. Look at it this way – 7 points in 19 games. I don’t care if there are 20 teams we need to pass. If you look at it from a pure points standpoint, what does it matter how many teams we need to pass? Take it one game at a time and we do what we can – at the rate we’ve been playing, we could b in 8th by April 1st.
All we have to do is get in. Not saying it’s going to be easy, but if we can get in, it’s a whole new ballgame.
You say "can not"...I say CAN!!!!!
by OriginalCaniac on Mar 4, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, we can get back in it…its going to take a win streak for the memories, but it can happen.
by PittsburghCaniac on Mar 5, 2010 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
That’s positive thinking…something a few could learn from. :)
You say "can not"...I say CAN!!!!!
by OriginalCaniac on Mar 5, 2010 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
It matters how many teams you have to pass because you have to hope that all but one of those above you stumbles otherwise it doesn’t matter how well you do. Do not forget, it only takes two hot team amongst Boston, Atlanta, Rangers, Habs, Tampa, and Florida to shut the door on the Canes. If two, only two of those teams get hot then the Canes are out. This is why it matters how many teams are above you. The Canes do not control their own destiny.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
lol, I knew it wouldn’t take long for you to sprinkle something in about not making it. It’s all good though.
Have you seen my playoff tickets?
by hotchipsnsalsa on Mar 5, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
He's right though
I’d love to be looking at things with LaRose colored glasses (Ba-dum ching), but having that many teams in front is much more detrimental than the points behind.
Haven’t opened my bobblehead yet. Thinking (and hoping) it may be worth something one day.
How about that, doubters? Seven in a row and 7 points back of eighth with 19 to play. Three game SE roadie coming up then a huge Thursday tilt with Pittsburgh at the Bank. 6-8 points out of those 4 games and we could be within 2-3 points.
Sat as close as I ever have tonight. 113 row K where the medals were. Had the whole row to myself save for the left end. Did anyone see that USA jersey guy at the glass pumping up the crowd? Tha was pretty cool. Legace played super tonight – even my favorite whipping boy Pitkanen had a solid effort. Hard working and fast tonight…great to see.
Hopefully I’ll get to another game before the end of the season.
UGH- That headline is fantastic, but kills me at the same time!
After such a grueling year of following the ‘Canes, it now seems that we are catching some wind in our sails. The problem is, I wasn’t nervous about them a month ago. I was settled on a season of “suck” and started to focus on how we can get better in the future.
Now, the way they are playing, I am getting excited again. The last thing I want for the final chapter of this terrible ’Canes season is ….PLAYOFF HOPE. I know the chances are slim, and we can only probably lose 2-3 more games max, but crap, they are starting to sell it!
Great teams sell wins, Bad teams sell hope…three months ago, we sold neither….now, the latter seems appropriate.
by PittsburghCaniac on Mar 5, 2010 12:59 AM EST reply actions
Three up, three down
Looking back to the last game before the Olympic break, when we chased Marty Broduer (and destroyed his confidence for Team Canada), we have now chased the last three starting goalies sent out to try and stop this red hot team.
There will be sellouts before this run is done.
So in your infinite wisdom and vast ’puter array, what you see in store for the draft and the offseason?
I expect more and more meaningful dumpage. I also think they have to bring in a player that will play with Ruutu’s heart, Holmstoms posionality and some size and speed. Ofcourse a good blue liner.
Anybody else catch the slam on Sammi by Mo? When asked about that line Mo mention both other players as “good skaters” and no mention of Sammi. I thought that was interesting..
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
a player that will play with Ruutu’s heart, Holmstoms positionality and some size and speed.
That’s exactly the description of the player we need Oskar Osala to become. Too much to ask for?
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
Excellent – thanks for grabbing this. Love it!
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
too bad thats not a Hurricanes jersey he’s wearing! :( but I do love the fact that Scotty got 2 goals and OV -none, nada, zero zip!! :)
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
Jen – did you see this Ask the Canes video on the movie characters. Quick one – but the end line is a classic!
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
LOVE IT!!! I watched it about 50 times to try to figure out what the heck Timmy mumbled at the end, never did figure it out
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
Sounds like he likes porn
always happens in one of them
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
I get as far as “whatever movie/that may be” and then he says something else that is completely lost to his mumbling.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
The man needs subtitles
Reporter in Sochi, 2014: “Hey Tim Gleason, after Silver in 2010 with Team USA, you now along with the rest of Team USA, thrashed the upstart Canadians, 12 to 0 for the Gold! What are you going to do now?”
Tim Gleason: “Well igonnabeyouknowstartingtoslowdowngoto, well, uh, makeachangeandgodownand”
Reporter: “Thanks Tim for that riveting 5 minute interview”
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
You’re assuming the ladies pay attention. I’m thinking of the movies, where all the edges get blurry and the happy music starts playing and everything else kinda fades out of view…’tis what happens to the wifey when Ruu appears…lol
Has she seen the interview with him in Finland on the tennis courts from last summer. LTD posted it I think (who else?). He’s speaking in Finnish for several minutes. No translation necessary. She’ll be captivated, promise.
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by hockeymomof2 on Mar 5, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
The pleasure was all mine.
Seriously.
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
by LTD on Mar 5, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
You two having a smoke now
or something?
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
I would love subtitles although like Jen said they are not really necessary for us to get enjoyment out of Timmy interviews.
"This guy is as meat and potatoes as there is of a man."
Gleason for Emperor!
+1
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by hockeymomof2 on Mar 5, 2010 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Scotty also made FIRST star of the night at Puck Daddy.
I’d bet $10 that’s a first fro Scotty since the GWG vs Boston last May.
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
Thanks Jenniwa
gee that was neat thing to do…and Jordon is starting to fill out and look more like Eric..but ewith a harder edge…hehehe
Relax !! Even Micro Wave Popcorn takes time !! Go Canes !!
+1 (and we thought Ward was the franchise goalie). There are a lot of teams worried about their goalie as they make a run for the playoffs this season. Good to know that’s not our problem – not that we’re making a run for the playoffs or anything.
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
Good game…waited about 45 minutes to get the photos with the medals (10 mins left in the first to about 14 left in the second.)
Got some warm ups and game shots -
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15530177@N05/sets/72157623558879762/
Not drinking the Kool-Aid yet…but it sure is nice to be on a winning streak. I’d love to see this team back at 500.
Great shots both of you! We were in line before the game, and looks like you all had a little more space around you for the pictures. Very crowded all around us while we were there. I got pictures of the medals and jerseys but did not get my picture taken with them. Did get the kid’s and the bunny’s though.
Sees the world through ruuu-colored glasses...
Sisu
by LTD on Mar 5, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone notice Mr Brind`Amour receiving 2nd star of the game behind Legace?
I thought Rod had his “game of the season” last night – hustling, causing turnovers, a new lease on life. Wuzzup with that? Imagine if he started contributed in force to the games on a nightly basis?
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
Is that his first ‘star award’ of the season?
by Adam's Journey on Mar 5, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
He went in for that backhand goal with his legs and stick in his signature “tripod” position that I haven’t seen him take in quite a while.
Brind'Amour
I had the exact reaction— Brind’Amour had his best game in years. It would really help the team if Brind’Amour could be that kind of player this year and next through his contract. He seemed to be energized by having Boychuk and TKO on his line.
I was going to say…he looked geniunely happy and interested throughout the game anytime they did a close-up. First time I’ve seen that pretty much all season in-game. Very nice to see.
perhaps he was playing with more confidence...
knowing that management stuck true to their word and chose not to trade him… also the fact that he had Boychuk with him again appears to energize him – I seem to remember lil’chuck having the same affect on him previously
I know this is not going to be popular, but if he can play this kind of fourth line role next year, then I want him to play next year and not retire. The cap space is already gonna be gone either way, may as well get something out of it. Plus I think if you give him the goal of being mentor to one or two young players, he can do that, and excel with a more achievable goal. Earlier in the year we wanted him to be the Warhorse. He can’t do that anymore. But he can be the grizzled old vet taking a young pup under his wing.
Chad went way out of his way in an interview the other day to give credit to Brind’Amour’s influence and mentor role with him. Used words like “I just can’t say enough..”.
Wylse, a 3.5 million dollar 4th liner?
Sell me a bag of the shit you are smoking, I need it.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
Actually, a $1M 4th liner.
Cost for services is the difference between paying the $3M in salary (not $3.5M) or paying the buyout amount of $2M.
So, the purely business decision is whether or not that 4th line center role can be filled for less than a million…but, that’s before intangibles like mentoring, ability to fill in for injuries in upper lines, etc. are factored into the decision.
Buy-Out Question for Brind'Amour
Brind’Amour has a $3,00,000 salary next year. Doesn’t the math work that with a buyout, the Hurricanes have to pay 2/3rds of that or $2,000,000 over a two year period or $1,000,000 a year? So next year there would be a $2,000,000 savings; and if a minimum salary player at $500,000 were added, the total savings next year would be $1,500,000.
From a cash-flow standpoint, yes (but that’s waaayyyy too complicated for a reply to Paladin6 :-D).
But, if cash flow considerations are dialed into the decision, then you also have to look at the salary being paid in paycheck increments, versus the lump sum annual payments of a buyout.
Still, total cost to the org, cash flow considerations set aside for the moment, is that $1M differential. But, from an annual cash flow perspective, it’s as you outlined above.
At least as I understand it.
Run your math by me again slow. I keep getting the 3 mill plus is what the old bag of bones is gonna cost. I don’t understand you 1 mill. number. Hard to argue with you when I don’t know what you are talking about.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
I think I am following Esker. Let’s forget cash flow considerations — that is having to pay $1,000,000 in 2010-2011 to Brind’Amour and $1,000,000 in 2011-2012 to Brind’Amour in order to buy out his contract — which is a cash flow analysis. (Elsker is also correct that if one employs a cash flow analysis it should include the value of money over time, but that is for another esoteric discussion).
So the math works out that if Brind’Amour is bought out — the Hurricanes pay $2,000,000.00 to Brind’Amour and not $3,000,000 — which translates to a $1,000,000 savings. Then if the Hurricanes can find a fourth line center such as Dwyer for $500,000, the Hurricanes have saved $500,000 in the transaction and have a young, fast, motivated fourth line center and can use the additional $500,000 to re-sign players such as Whitney or Corvo or Cullen.
Also, if I am remembering correctly with a buy-out, the cap hit per year for Brind’Amour would be $1,000,000 (but I would appreciate somebody verifying that).
Is that making sense?
If Brind’Amour were to retire, he gives up $3,000,000 — which Chuck K says is not going to happen. If Brind’Amour is bought out, he gets a two year severance package of $1,000,000 annually. Buy-outs are at the team’s option.
From a financial perspective, it probably makes sense to buy-out Brind’Amour and then hire him as a hockey consultant working with the young kids on face offs, penalty kills, and conditioning/strength.
I saw one or two interviews of Brind’Amour and he seems to have made peace with himself and is happier now than at the start of the season. Maybe he doesn’t feel like he is letting the team down. I suppose aging athletes have to mourn the loss of their youthful skills and some players take longer to reach that accommodation.
His contract is going to be a $3M cap hit next season, period. Doesn’t matter if he retires (and, really, I agree, why would he do that?), bought out, or plays.
It’s a cap hit, because the contract was signed after he was 36 years old and the league wants to squash any funny business with contracts that scream buyout from the git-go.
But, next season that’s sort of a “so what?”. No way we’re going anywhere near the cap with salary budget, so the cap hit is immaterial.
K, now I kinda get it, but way too half glass full for me (go figure).
So in my world ol’ Rod costs this team 3 mill for two more years in cap money barring death. So that cost this team 6 Dwyers or more than enogh to keep Whitney.
In real money I am not sure enough to argue, but I was of the impression it was at least half (Tannabe and Kaberle were 50% I think) or maybe harsher due to the ancient fella age when he signed.
So I still don’t buy 1 mill. He has/is/will cost this team far more than a mill a year cash per year.
As for coaching, I’m not so sure. Without watching the interview, I can agree with Elsker that he is a classy man from top to bottom. Hockey ain’t a personality contest, though. As Captain, even when he was on top of his game, the one issue I had with him was he was way too quiet. I think he was lead by example and when he could pull it off, it worked. With all the new kids, the “quesytionable” coaching staff, I don’t know if he A: wants to coach right off or B: can be effective.
Love Rod as many do, but I don’t think he was the player Ron Francis was and I think Ron sucks ass as a coach. So a great player don’t make a great coach, Gretz anyopne?
Anyway there’s my bitchin’ on your logic now thavI understand it.
Thanks to A Dog and Elsker!
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
Brind'Amour and Next Year
I can appreciate the perspective that Rod Brind’Amour could serve as a mentor for the young kids with a fourth line role. I think it depends on whether the Rod Brind’Amour who shows up is the Rod Brind’Amour from last night — who is hustling and crashing the net. There is an argument to be made that if a future Hall of Fame player will do the dirty work on the fourth line with a great attitude and intensity, then nobody is above having to to block shots, dig pucks out of the corner, and lay hits to separate the puck from the opposing players.
My preference is still a buy-out and to have Brind’Amour work with the young players on face-offs and other similar coaching assignments; but an enthusiastic, energized Brind’Amour on the fourth line can’t be dismissed as nostalgia overruling logic.
Isn't this exactly . . .
What the Panthers do every year only to fall short? It takes them out of a great draft position and leaves them out of the playoffs. This kind of season only breads more 12-9 place finishes.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
hush there child
lest you go ’n upset them thar hocky gods
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
The hockey gods are now responsible for the run that will see the Canes finish 10th or 9th in the east?
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
I still simply don’t get this negativity. Cling to it, because when we make this “improbable” run and make the playoffs I want to be one of the few on here that can hold their head up high and know that I never gave up hope.
Seven points in 19 games. One game at a time.
You say "can not"...I say CAN!!!!!
by OriginalCaniac on Mar 5, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t really believe we have shot, but at the same time I have seen this club lose enough. I am happy to embrace some winning for a change.
Appropriate positivity to counteract the negativity! I like that on a Friday. Good way to start the weekend. :)
Better way are pitchers of Bass
for less than $5
Great way to spend $50 with 2 or 3 of your friends.
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
No, I think he meant "Bread"
as in a perfect sandwich of medocrity
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
IT A LOOOOONG WAY TO THE TOP!!!
IF YOU WANT TO ROCK AND ROLL!!
I remember they always played this during playoff games.
Playoffs?
It was funny — couple of media members last night asked Brindy and Staal if they were starting to scoreboard watch now that they’ve been on this winning streak.
They both kind of just laughed it off for the most part and said its all about just focusing on their game one at a time. Typical response of course but interesting that the playoff questions are coming up here and there
Here’s hoping the pressure gets the boys gripping the sticks a little too tight.
How will you feel if Whitney signs with another team in the summer?
If we don’t pick up a strong potential top-6 scoring forward or big top-4 D in the draft then this year has been a 100% waste.
This is why I am positive we will fight up to the 9th-10th spot in the East only to fall short. We screwed everything else up, why not this.
I hope you're just bowing to karma
as in, “Nah, we can’t do it”, kind of a thing.
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
I say, so what? Isn’t this fun?
I’ll be happy to deal with any draft position in which we arrive. Got picks/prospects to trade to improve upon that position, if deemed necessary.
The most important thing of all is not making one position better, but making the entire team better. Installing a winning tradition upgrade in team psyche is damn near priceless.
Plus, bottom line, it’s an entertainment product. And this run is definitely entertaining.
“And this run is definitely entertaining” —
Exactly. This is where I stand on it all. I can’t believe people would rather see us tank, players frustrated, etc just to move up in the draft order. Come on! As a real fan, of course you want the team to improve with a good draft order but you’d rather see miserable outcomes for the rest of the year?
I don’t get that
Me either. It seems crazy to me people are pissed because we are not losing.
Have you seen my playoff tickets?
by hotchipsnsalsa on Mar 5, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
If losing the last 10 home games of the season means that we add a potential superstar to our team next year then I would take it my losses now and Cups in years to come. I am a STH and I still feel this way.
The reality of the Canes is that they will never be able to afford to pick up a star play in free agency. We don’t really have the expendable assets to gut the team and trade for a star player. The only plausible way we are ever going to get a franchise scoring winger or defender is through drafting one.
It has frustrated me greatly since the Cup run that they refuse to address the teams need for a star winger. Now that we are SO close to one forgive me for being mad they are screwing it up. Obviously if we hadn’t been absolutely abysmal the first half of the year we wouldn’t find ourselves in this position and everyone would be excited to win. But given the circumstances I’d rather look to the future.
Case in point which Cory has brought up before and I think is a perfect parallel example:
The San-Antonio Spurs were a force in the NBA in the late 90’s with David Robinson. They were one of the favorites to win it all in 96-97 however Robinson went down early for the whole season and the Spurs ended up 3rd to last. They then won the draft lottery, picked up Tim Duncan, and emerged as an NBA superpower winning 3 NBA titles in the next 8 years lead by the “twin towers” Robinson and Duncan.
We are the Spurs… A great team with a ton of potential that had a terrible year due to injuries. I say we just make the best of it, accept that we had a bad year, take our “Tim Duncan” (Taylor Hall, Seguin, Fowler) which will put us over the top, and win our own 3 Cups in the next 8 years.
We were ranked by just about every Hockey pundit to be in top-10 or even top-5 in the whole NHL at the end of this year. I’d say we fell far below what was expected.
As for Hall, Seguin, and Fowler. All 3 will be Eric Staal caliber players. All 3 will be stars in this league next year and maybe eventual superstars. This year’s draft class is by all accounts stronger than last. Plus while Tim Duncan is a beast, part of the reasoning in the story is that he already was drafted to a great team. We aren’t a typical bottom feeding team just as the Spurs weren’t then. Any big name prospect will have a better chance to succeed here than on the Leafs or Oilers.
There is a big difference between favorite to win it all and a top 10-5. I agree we fell far below expectation, but it also had less to do with injuries than you imply.
I also don’t agree that Hall Seguin and Fowler are all Stars in the league next year. I am not sure all will even be IN the league next year. There are all players who will most likely be very good, but still have some seasoning left to do. D men usually take longer ( so probably no Fowler) and if Seguins game was NHL ready then why was he passed over for the Jr tourney squad? I expect to see Hall, and I expect him to have a Stamkos like rookie year, with considerable strides made in the following season.
There is more than one way to build a perennial contender. If we don’t get one of the top 3, we will be ok. The world will not end and the franchise will not move. Providing a good product for the remainder of the season will go further with the casual fan base than getting a big time draft pick will. And remember in order to satsify the business side, they are a major target.
We see almost nothing of these draft picks in America. What have you been looking at that says these players aren’t “star material” and they won’t play in the league next year.
Sorry but the only thing you could possibly use to predict what will happen with these players is past history. And past history shows that a good 90-95% of top-3 picks become NHL stars and the good majority of those play in the NHL the year they were drafted.
Have you looked into the reports on these players much? I think if you did you might change your opinion.
well I saw Hall and Fowler both with my own eyes during the Jr tourney. Seguin, I have read up some on the internet.
If you want to talk about statistics, tell me one rookie post lockout to come in and immediately turn a teams fortunes around? It took Sid a few years, same with Ovechkin. Stamkos had a rough transition into the league, and the Islanders don’t appear to be a real contender either.
Look the point is that the comparison is not totally accurate. I am not saying that any of the projected top 3 aren’t good players with huge potential, I am just saying that they do not immediately reverse the fortunes of this team.
The bigger point in all of this is to enjoy the team when it wins. Hell pull for them to win. If you want that pick bad enough, just pull for the people blocking our path up the
standing to win as well! =)
I don’t think we need anyone to come in and “turn us around”. If anything the way we have been playing in the new year tells me we are fine, however a potential superstar like Hall/Seguin/Fowler would put us over the top at the Washington/Pittsburgh/Chicago level.
I don’t think we need anyone to come in and "turn us around".
That is fair, I just don’t think the potential to gain one of the three is worth the damage of tanking.
Either way, I do recognize we are all just hoping for the best for the this team, we just don’t agree how to get there.
Great discussion.
I agree with what you are saying. It is not the ONLY way to get there, but in my opinion it is certainly the most expedient.
I’m not going anywhere and in my mind I’d take the losses now for the better chance Cups in the next few years. I just want the improvements to the team that I think should have been made years ago and when the rare opportunity at obtaining another potential star caliber player comes along… It is just frustrating that they are ruining it after being so god-awful all season.
It just seemed to me that this whole year has been a waste (due to the first half of the season) and now the only salvageable piece left is being torn away.
Out of curiosity
How many of the top three picks do go on to be “super stars”? Or even play in the NHL their first year? Does anybody know where I can find a summery of past drafts?
2009: Tavares, Hedman, Duchene (All played this year)
2008: Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian (All played their draft year)
2007: Patrick Kane, James Van Riemsdyk, Kyle Turris (Kane and Turris played)
2006: Erik Johnson, Jordan Staal, Jonathan Toews (Staal and Toews played)
2005: Crosby, Bobby Ryan, Jack Johnson (Crosby played)
2004: Ovechkin, Malkin, Cam Barker (Ovi and Malkin played)
2003: MA Fleury, Eric Staal, Horton (Lockout year)
2002: Rick Nash, Kari Lehtonen, Jay Bouwmeester
2001: Kovalchuk, Jason Spezza, Alex Svitov
2000: Rick Dipietro, Danny Heatley, Marion Gaborik
Now out of the past TEN drafts, there is 1 person that would be considered a “bust” (Svitov).
Not to mention coverage of these draftees and therefore correct draft placement improves each year.
And people want to sit here and tell me there is no “Star” players in the top 3….
History is the ONLY indicator that we could go off of and history shows about 90-95% of these top-3 picks turn out to be superstars.
Also take into account that this is considered a strong draft year and you should look to the better players for comparisons. Also Taylor Hall was considered at last year’s draft to be better than Tavares and Duchene.
I personally just don’t see that “star winger” in this year’s draft crop, even among the top three choices.
Plus, I’m just not convinced that what this org needs is another $8M/yr player. But, that’s another debate entirely.
Just give JR some time to work this summer. If we need Tyler Seguin, to fill a specific need (say that 3rd line center spot) and we know him well enough (which we will via Plymouth Whaler daily experience) to believe he’s our man…then we’ll get him.
It might be at a terrible price, of exchanging picks, prospects and/or maybe even a player to get that pick. But, we do hold the assets to “buy” him, if we need to do so. Moving up in the draft can occur, just costs to do so.
But, there are tons of other options, too, including trading for what we need. I’m just not convinced that the only path to future success is tanking to pick early.
I would be thrilled if we could move up and snag Seguin, but I really don’t see that happening with what we have. That was one of the reasons I was hoping we acquired another late 1st round pick. That would have given us a real shot of moving up to acquire a Seguin.
Anyway, I’m actually pretty high on the Russian kid Kabonov. He probably doesn’t come in immediately and make the team, but will probably take a winger role soon enough. From what I’ve read and seen on him, the kid is fast and is a true sniper. We should be able to pick him up in positions 5 through 10.
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Kabanov has been hurt all year and that has driven his value down. He is finally back playing again now. He might be a decent pickup but the biggest knock on him is that he is a typical Russian skill forward who tends to disappear for long stretches and plays with little heart.
That being said he is a big question mark for me. Could be a star player, could be wash. It seems JR typically strays from drafting Russian (or European at all for that matter).
Though many have said he is the most skilled forward to come out of Russia since Ovechkin (Whom he is actually friends with and has his number on speed dial).
Agree that we don’t hold enough picks to trade up, but throw a player or two on top of those picks and you’ll have someone’s attention.
I’m not advocating that we take this approach. Just pointing out that if the org decides they just have to have someone, that they’re obtainable…IF you’re willing to pay the price.
I’m personally going to be happy with what’s available to us and work from there, regardless of where we pick.
I think that’s really just a matter of what the other GM wants. If the other GM really wants Seguin, we are never going to get him in a million years. If the other GM has his eye on someone a few picks higher, it’s probably a done deal.
Such as the Kings taking Brayden Schenn last year. Everyone knew the Leafs wanted him BAD (because they have his brother Luke Schenn) however they never had a chance because the Kings really wanted him.
The question is who would Edmonton, Boston, and maybe Columbus or Florida or the Islanders want enough from our team to be willing to part with their draft pick?
I feel Edmonton wants Hall and will not trade their pick no matter what. I feel Boston could go either way with either Fowler or Seguin. But who would we give up to move into their spot (assuming we also give them our 1st round pick)? They wouldn’t take Samsonov, they maybe would take Cole.
Again, its a matter of what we would be willing to give up and what other teams would accept.
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I also find it completely insane that "fans" are hoping their team will lose...
Draft picks are the future, and are a crapshoot. The best you can do with the future is make an educated guess. Keep losing so no one shows at the gate & the team loses MORE money? How about make a drive for the playoffs, draw fans to the RBC, get fans excited about the club… and let them make some money so they have it to spend later on along with those draft picks. Hockey is all about RIGHT NOW. Keep winning, keep drawing fans, keep gaining respect – maybe some “talent” will really want to be a part of this team. WHo would want to ba a part of a team that tanked & is full of a bunch of losers?
Dude, I don’t even know why I post, you say it better than I can!
Generating interest is the key to any sport in any market. How do you generate interest by throwing a season for prospects. It only works if you are talking about tanking for a generational talent, and even then, you might get Daigle’d. ( I wonder if his name has ever been used as a verb before). I don’t think we are talking about generational talents.
I agree with both of you guys. Last night’s attendance was over 17,000. Yes – there were bobbleheads, and Yes – there were Olympic medals. But I think the fans are responding to an exciting stretch of games.
Others are ok with souring the mood in favor of a pick that MIGHT pan out someday?
It also helps...
When local college hoops teams like the Tarheels are sucking! :)
Thank you Jim Rutherford and Ray Whitney for working together for Ray to stay a Hurricane! :)
We can never have too much "sucking"
coming from all the college teams around here.
Yes, I’m ducking and weaving now…..
College is for studying, not building a base for a sports program. And people in the US wonder why the US is losing its lead in Aerodynamics, Biology, Computer Sciences, etc.
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
As someone who works in a college with a well know and respected sports program, you would be astounded the money that these programs bring in, and how widely that income impact the institution. Collegiate sports do not hinder our Universities, it helps them.
In the same way a casino "helps" the local economy
I have no doubt they pull in a lot of money but at the same time, how much of that cash comes from students?
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
I’d have to say, here at UNC, as both a past student and current staff member, I’d be hard pressed to find away the athletics program has harmed the University over helping it. Ok, on Carolina v Duke nights I wouldn’t be studying, but that was about it. If I had to guess why America is “losing its lead in Aerodynamics, Biology, Computer Sciences, etc.” it is due to poor primary education. The problems are not at the university level, they are much farther below.
not to rain on sports...but
can anyone here name any college superstar that won say a hiesman or other NCAA,ACC,SEC or any other conference in america ever get nominated for a Nobel prize in the last say 5-10 years ? my point of this post is college sports for what good it may do in bring in money ( as football & BB are the cash cows ) but what does it really do to help or assist many college wanna be stars who by the grace of god do get in on a partial scholarship( paid for by sports monies & booster clubs) to end up in the scrap heap after they are used up and injured and no longer any good …where in any NCAA participating insitutions founding chater say that the purpose of the institution was for making sports super stars out of those applicants who apply to come to college…again i am NOT against sports…I have great disdain and utter contempt for the college sports system..as it puts more of a premium on the bodies of players than their minds..Now grant you if there wasn’t what monies that do flow in from sports many if not all NCAA schools would be in deep doo doo but to the nerdy or the not so nerdy non sports player who wants to learn and maybe just maybe go on and discover the next great thing..why with the drying up of funds for scholarship funds for those students put on the way way back burner…all i ask is before you jump on me..look at what and who was recruited, where they were from…and why they chose to come…see how many wanted to come to be doctors,lawyers,chemists ……and with that i’ll close my post…again I love sports…but some how the current system in all of the NCAA schols and etc…some where the leadership of those schools lost sight and fell to the addiction of the monies raised by sports…after all what does North carolina need most ? more MJ’s Tim Duncans or Chris Pauls…or do we need more people like steve jobs,bill gates and a dr. jonas saulk…you can’t have it both ways sports fans…it don’t add up…have a good evening…
Relax !! Even Micro Wave Popcorn takes time !! Go Canes !!
This world is overpopulated enough that there are enough students to go around to produce both athletes and the next Steve Jobs of the world. Most college athletes wouldn’t even be at college if it wasn’t for sports. Not to mention those that go on to the Pros give LOTS to charities and do provide good to their communities.
So now we’re rooting against our team just to pick a few places higher in the draft? Give me a break…you NEVER tank in hockey. You always play your heart out and the rest sorts itself out. I’m sorry, but if I ever suspected this team was intentionally trying to play poorly just to get a better pick, I’d never watch them play again. And I am a die-hard Caniac from day one.
You say "can not"...I say CAN!!!!!
by OriginalCaniac on Mar 5, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Tanking for a better pick is like sending your sister out drunk in a "good part of town"
hoping she’ll get taken home by a “nice guy”.
Losing for a better draft pick = loser in mentality
Yes, I’ve heard of “stoop to conquer” but I agree with OC, you never tank as learning to lose is way too easy to continue on and on.
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
From the losers at ESPN, what a joke of so called "sports reporters"
ESPN on Losing is winning for the Canes
Excerpt: The key now is for Carolina to stop winning as many games as it has been lately and keep its nice draft position for June
Now who really wants to agree with crack-head reporting like that?
If the guys and gals who brought you the financial meltdown deserve big bonuses, where do I sign up?
Boychuk is much stronger than some people think — including opposing players. He has a feisty spirit and has great speed and hands. I was interested in his comments in an interview with Luke DeCock in which he said, he needed to prove he was capable of playing on the third line and/or fourth line.
When the Hurricanes are able to roll four lines and get scoring from the third and fourth line, they are a tough team for other teams to play.
WRAL covered the Canes Olympic medals
for anyone not living in the triangle who may have missed it!
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
Killswitch, it’s only friday…they got until 11:59:59 on Saturday to do or say anything if then…but such is life…I persoanlly am NOT to concerned about the All -Star game seeing that noner of us here physically owns the RBCC…but i agree you’d think Shorty of somebody would have said sometning by now…sigh…maybe next year…
Relax !! Even Micro Wave Popcorn takes time !! Go Canes !!
im starting to think brindy is gonna play again next year,
he makes sense as the yelle esque fourth line center old guy with experience and a voice.
was this the plan all along?
I think it was, and is, certainly an option (not necessarily “the plan”) in JR’s mind. It’s what he meant when he said they would sit down this summer and evaluate where they were on Brind’Amour.
Could be bought out. Could be slotted into the roster to be used in some role/manner.
Brind’Amour’s auditioning, like everyone else is, over the next five weeks or so.
Brind'Amour Article from The Hockey News
Here’s an interesting article on Brind’Amour from the Hockey News:
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/31963-VIDEO-BrindAmours-future-uncertain.html
It talks about the fact that Brind’Amour’s future is uncertain.
I’ll say this much, it freakin kills me to see them play like this now. What if is not a fun game to play, but you can’t help but wonder, If these guys had found this level of play in November, where would we be now? Who would be wearing the sightless eye today, if we had played like this out of the gate? O well. At least it gives hope (false or not) for next year.
I think this team is a different team now than it was at the start of the season. The young kids are raising the energy and talent level. The slow veteran dudes are gone elsewhere and solid players are healed. It’’s a fun team to watch and continue to be fun in the future.
I don’t know if you can really put the blame on the veterans and the praise on the kids. Don’t get me wrong, I’m looking forward to the young guys coming in and contributing. The thing is, what caused this predictiment is what the Canes seem to struggle with year in and year out: a slow start. While this seasons start was worse than before, this problem is something that needs to be corrected. Even last season, we were on the outside looking in until a late season charge. This season’s start was more about injuries and just bad play than the age of players. The coaching staff, managment, and the players need to figure out how to reverse this trend, so we’re not in the same position next year.
Isn’t it funny how when attendence starts to increase this team seems to play its best hockey. Or is it when the Canes actually start to play good hockey, the attendence increases?
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by PackPride17 on Mar 5, 2010 9:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The latter.
Here’s a simple equation. When have we won games, with or without kids in the line up? Who shows the most hustle? When we were among the oldest teams in the league how’d we do? Now that we are among the youngest, who’s the hottest team in the NHL?
It’s an undeniable simple truth that JR gambled on veteran savvy carrying the day. He was wrong. The old guys can’t carry much more than a paycheck and geritol. Once you infuse the vibrance and exuberence of youthful bodies along with journeyman skill, you get wins. The new NHL requires speed and snap reactions. Players like Rod may see a play coming, but ain’t got the ability to make the play. Players like Sutter, Carson, Dwyer, Tlusty, and even Staal have the faster bodies.
Faster bodies trump veteran exper. in todays NHL.
A
Errors of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.
He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors
We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately
If losing guaranteed a cup then I think we would all agree with the logic that suggest finish last not 9th. However looking over the last 15 years, it is interesting that you see the Isles, Panthers, Lightning and Thrashers near the bottom all the time. (Yea the Lightning won one Cup) We rarely see the Devils, Red Wings, Avs. Point is you can win a cup without getting a high draft pick!
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