Hurricanes Mentioned in "Glut of NHL Teams Potentially For Sale" Article
Ken Campbell of The Hockey News included the Carolina Hurricanes as potentially for sale in his most recent article published this afternoon.
"and there are signs the Carolina Hurricanes and even the New Jersey Devils might be for sale in the near future."
One might wonder exactly what the "signs" are that Campbell is looking at?
about 2 years ago
Bob Wage
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Answer: the signs of how many retweets appear on his blog.
Talk about tossing out a hand grenade with no supporting sources or explanation. Is he Canadian and particularly upset about NHL expanding in the south?
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by Carolyn Christians on May 10, 2010 5:07 PM EDT reply actions
In the writer’s defense, Karmanos has been said to be looking for someone to take a minority stake to help cushion his bottom line.
Also, in the down economy, most all these wealthy business owners have seen their income shrink and their needs for tax writeoffs evaporate. Suddenly their little toys don’t seem as much fun.
That said, anyone who believes they lose as much money as they claim, well I’ve got some waterfront property in Louisana I’d like to sell you. Just ignore the black sand.
I’ve got $100 bucks, can I become a minority owner?
Seriously, this franchise is probably on the edge, but it is improving. This past 2 years have been tough with the economy, but growing a non-traditional sport takes time. The New York’s, Philadelphia’s, and Pittsburgh’s have been around for a long time. We have yet to really even reach the 2nd generation of hockey fans in NC. Once the kids that have grown up with the Canes get old enough to pay for tickets, that’s when we should start seeing significantly better revenue. Most of us North Carolinians, like myself, have had to learn a game that we did not grow up with at all. Hockey is now my favorite sport and I believe that as time goes along more people will start seeing this team/sport in the same light as me.
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by PackPride17 on May 10, 2010 6:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We have yet to really even reach the 2nd generation of hockey fans in NC. Once the kids that have grown up with the Canes get old enough to pay for tickets, that’s when we should start seeing significantly better revenue.
Take a look at the Pittsburgh Penguins attendance history and you can see that very phenomena.
About 20 years in, they began to approach capacity as an average attendance mark. That second generation effect.
True about the second generation. Exciting and winning hockey with young, aggressive, and talented players are important elements. I think that is why the Hurricanes coaches and front office keep repeating the mantra that the Hurricanes will be younger, faster, and more aggressive next season.
AD, when I was talking about the second generation; I was talking about the second generation of fans. They are the ones that will determine the fate of the Carolina organization.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on May 10, 2010 11:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
PackPride, I apologize for being unclear. I got it that it was the second generation of fans — like my sons, for example, who grew up watching the Hurricanes and who were able to see in person the 2005-2006 Stanley Cup games. My point was was this second generation of fans will expect a younger, faster, more physical team because they watch hockey and follow hockey. It is also because the second generation is younger than me (who isn’t) and identify with the young starts and the up and coming new players.
I don’t see a 2nd generation being any different from the 1st generation, they just expect their team to make the playoffs and win the Stanley Cup every year; for the most part everyone has those expectations at the beginning of the season, especially Leafs and Habs fans. What the Canes need to do is broaden their audience. Moving the farm team to Charlotte is a great step, I know folks from the Triangle drive down to Charlotte to watch Panthers games, but I’m not sure the same can be said (at least in qty) for folks driving from Charlotte to Raleigh to watch Canes games. This year will be pivotal with the fan base, the ball is in their court with the All-Star Game and starting in Europe, a lot of eyes will be on the Canes, they need to make the most of it.
The NFL and NHL are completely different monsters. 8 homes game, almost all on Sundays compared to 41 homes games, pretty much any day of the week. The NFL is more of a regional sport; the NHL, NBA, and MLB are more local.
I do see the 2nd generation being different. Not one person that purchases Season Tickets can say they have been a lifelong Canes fan! Those 2nd generation fans could and you are more likely to support something that you have known your whole life. Expecting championships has nothing to do with support from real fans. Yes, we all want to see wins, but its the casual fans that only show up for winning. What I’m saying is; the kids that will have grown up with the Canes are more likely to be hardcore fans than casual fans.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on May 11, 2010 9:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Success will breed hardcore fans. The NFL crushes every other sport, but unfortunately the NHL competes for the same dollars. I think the NHL has to do a better job of selling itself to fans that are kind of sitting on the fence, the fans that say “I have a small pool of discretionary income which I use for entertainment and right now I’m driving to Charlotte once a month to watch an NFL football or I’m going to Sullivan’s for dinner or whatever”. They’re out there and right now they’re not buying tickets to Canes games. From my experience or in my office they’re doing this for 2 reasons: they don’t understand hockey and the Canes clinched being out of the playoffs in December.
Success breeds hardcore fans, but lifelong fans are more likely to deal with the down times than newer fans. If you’ve invested twenty years you don’t walk away for a season or two. If you’ve only been invested for a short time it’s easier to walk away.
I just wish JR would have given up Ray Whitney for Lent.
That line sounds like it was thrown in just to make the writer’s article seem more relevant. For all we know Mr. Campbell could be interpreting the Canes trading so many players with expiring contracts at the deadline a potential “sign” of a future sale rather than just a way to save money and stockpile draft picks and prospects when your season is likely done anyway.
Total Clown of an Article
The writer might as well have said: “I got drunk and hammered out some drivel and having consulted the oracles of Budweiser I perceive the Hurricanes might possibly be for sale and if I flap my wings, I shall rise above the chains of gravity and fly.”
I just posted
my responce to KC’s article…and I said what is his % of being right or correct compared to the likes of say…Spector…Persoanlly I think KC is constipated …somebody got a high pressure garden hose for the guy ?
When The People Fear Their Government,There is Tyranny;
When The Government fears The People, There Is Liberty
I actually think Campbell is spot on with this. He doesn’t say the team is for sale, and also doesn’t say that being for sale means relocating the team. He says that, potentially, Caroilina could be had for the right price. IMO, PK would not sell the team to someone with designs on moving it b/c that would leave him with egg on his face. But if someone like Jim Goodmon — owner of Capital Broadcasting, the Bulls, and a fervent Canes supporter — called tomorrow and said he was interested in buying a majority ownership in the team, I think PK would not only listen, but clear his calendar to discuss it. The problem is, who beyond Goodmon is a local candidate to buy the team? shrug
Cory, I disagree
It seems to me that if Goodman wanted to have a piece of the team, he would have had it by now, unless he wants all or nothing. And you could say the same exact thing about almost any team in the NHL, “they could be had for the right price”, why single out Carolina and Jersey?
PK has been trying to lure local partners for awhile, I’m not sure how that well established fact from years past ties into “signs” which could put the team up for sale in the near future? What does one thing have to do with the other? If Campbell is using the fact that PK has been searching for partners as the “signs”, then technically the team is for sale now, not in the future. What’s the changing status of the team?
In my opinion, it’s irresponsible to say that “signs” indicate that the Hurricanes might soon be for sale, and not disclose what those “signs” are. We would not get away with similar reporting here, would we?
I agree that it could have nothing to do with relocation, but I don’t see what Campbell is trying to do here besides trying to stir the pot. He gives no facts to support his conjecture.
GM of CanesCountry.com
Goodmon was just an example. I think PK is easy to single out b/c Karmanos is pretty much an absentee owner. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t care or is just looking for a way out. But the fact that Jason Karmanos walked away, then came back (still in a hockey, not business, role) leads me to believe the team is just going to be passed down to JK.
It seems to me a little much is being read into this … he said signs are it “might” happen. But if you look around the league, the Canes are among the teams I think could possibly have an ownership change in the next 5-10 years.
by Cory Lavalette on May 11, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree that things could pass on to JK, but an ownership shift within the next 5-10 years is much different than “might be up for sale in the near future”.
Sure, anything is possible and anything “might” happen, I just don’t see why he mentions Carolina versus any other team in the league and what’s changed recently within the workings of the franchise to indicate that something might change in the near future.
GM of CanesCountry.com
Local Partners
The Hurricanes could well benefit from an infusion of capital from wealthy local partners if that new investment allowed the Hurricanes to become a non-budget team. I don’t see the issue so much as driven by where Peter Karmanos lives. Instead, the Hurricanes organization is still growing the business; and revenue through STHs needs to improve. In the interim having some local investors who could make some more cash available for salaries and who could use their direct local contacts to help build the STH base would be helpful.
To a significant degree the cash issue will resolve itself it the Hurricane younger players develop and the team develops its identity as playing a winning and exciting brand of hockey. I think one can’t underestimate the significance of having Staal, Ruutu, and Ward as the face of the team rather than Brind’Amour. If in the draft the Hurricanes get another budding star, that will help as well. There is a very rational argument that a charismatic player like Niederreiter who also plays a physical game could help boost attendance.
One way to tell about the casual fans’ view of the team is to watch over the course of a season to see which new players’ jerseys start showing up at the RBC. There was a huge infusion of Ruutu jerseys shortly after he arrived. Jokinen jerseys are also appearing. Sutter jerseys increased significantly in number. I noticed numerous “59” jerseys over the years; and that jersey remains very, very popular. One immediate benefit of local partners is that their new capital for the team would allow the Hurricanes the financial firepower to make decisions on keeping players based more on the team’s needs than the financial restraints of the team.
New owners may or may not increase the cash reserves within the org, in that PK may simply sell some of his shares to others, thereby diversifying the ownership and allowing him to cash out on some of his equity.
Under that scenario, the “new cash” goes to him, not to the org. Shares change hands, but there’s not necessarily a capital infusion from the new owners.
And, even if there was a capital call and new investment in the org, it wouldn’t necessarily mean increasing salary budgets, since without increased revenue, all the new owners would simply be agreeing to lose money at a greater rate than before with the losses spread among themselves.
The business still needs to stand on its own merits, whether owned by one or many. Increased revenues leads to possible increased spending. Diversification of ownership is good for PK and for the org, but ticket sales are still the path to increased spending.
Where is Jordan?
Did someone ask Mike Jordan if he wants to gamble on a small stake in a sport he knows nothing about?
No Clue.......
Why would Karmanos hold the team though the last of the Hartford years, move to a temporary home in Carolina, build to the point where they win a cup, and then sell?! Makes no sense! By the way….not all Candians hate southern teams ;) ! Go Canes!
Because he’s in his mid-60s and doesn’t seem to have an interest in moving here to watch the team. He has the Whalers in Plymouth, and while he’s passionate about the Canes I think that, first and foremost, he sees it as an investment.
by Cory Lavalette on May 11, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t buy the investment thing, he’s been involved in hockey for a very long time and he never did it to make money, it’s always been a passion for him. Owning an NHL team and winning a Stanley Cup have been a long time dream of his. I get the impression he wants to reduce his risk and involvement with the team (he’s getting older) and eventually pass the team on to his son who seems like he would make a great owner.
But he doesn’t do it to lose money either. Some small market owners pour cash into their teams and don’t care what they lose. PK treats Carolina like a business, as he should. Yes, he cares — I said that — but he’s also not the type to bleed cash for a “hobby.”
by Cory Lavalette on May 11, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to say “it depends” as to his tolerance for losses.
When his prime businesses are doing well, yes, it’s an expensive “hobby” as far as cash flow goes, but tolerable, especially since the underlying value of the franchise was on the increase during those times.
Plus, if we had a realistic shot at making some noise in the playoffs, he would usually loosen the purse strings to have a competitive “hobby” (yes, perhaps also in anticipation of increased playoff revenue).
But, in times like the last couple of years, when cash was a scarce commodity, I was very impressed by his commitment to a salary budget that frankly surprised me for this past season. His businesses must be recovering quicker than the norm to positive cash flow.
For a businessman, everything is a “business” (and rightly so). But, I do look at his divergence into hockey as being a very expensive hobby for him, bottom line.
For the record, he paid $47.5 million for the Whalers and Forbes recently estimated the value of the Canes to be around $200 million. When he sells, that takes care of a lot of losses over the years.
GM of CanesCountry.com
What year did he buy the Whalers? If he was looking at it purely as an investment I guess he would have to compare what his return would have been had he put it in the stock market (compare to the S&P).
June 28, 1994. And remember, he didn’t buy all of it. JR and Thewes own part of it.
Does the Thewes family still own a piece of the team or did PK or JR purchase his portion back?
I just wish JR would have given up Ray Whitney for Lent.
Now you’re speculating he’ll sell. Gotcha! ;)
by Cory Lavalette on May 11, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Forbes may have estimated the value there, but if the one part of Campbell’s story was that there are many NHL owners trying to sell, that usually forces a collapse in prices. Buyers’ market, and all that, and Forbe’s may be getting their info from Goldman Sachs.
However, here’s another blogger, BD Gallof at hockey independent, who thinks the whole story that focused primarily on the future of the Islanders was, um…, pathetic. Sample:
What is hilarious about Ken’s missive yesterday about NY METS owner Wilpon being interested in buying the NY Islanders, besides the fact there is not one shred of proof of such a thing…
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by Carolyn Christians on May 11, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
oops * but if the one factual part of Campbell’s story was that there are many NHL owners trying to sell,
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by Carolyn Christians on May 11, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Carolina Hurricane's
So I say to all you die hard cane’s fans never forget that they the(cane’s) put some excitememt and energy into the Raleigh-Durham sports market. Now we have something besides NC State basketball,football and baseball the same can be said for UNC atheltic’s and Duke athletics.A professional team say’s a lot about the area you choose to call home.I only wish we had a professional sports team over here in the winston-salem, greensboro area. But, no we have to settle for minor league baseball and soon to be Equasterian (horses) but I can believe that with the kind of folks that live in this particular section of the state. No, and I am not being critical of any one area in particular. It’s just that everyone knows all Wilkes County thinks about is a retirement community. Which is ok if you want to live around a bunch of old folks all the time. So let’s live it up Let’s keep our Hurricane’s right here in Raleigh, N.C. where they belong.
robert
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