Drayson Bowman, "I firmly believe that I can play up there."
by Bob Wage on May 4, 2010 11:33 PM EDT
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Drayson Bowman made both his AHL and NHL debuts this past season. In nine games with the Carolina Hurricanes, the forward had 2 goals and just 2 points, but he was a point a game player in the AHL. Because of injuries, Bowman only appeared in 36 regular season games for the Albany River Rats, but he scored 17 goals and chipped in with 15 assists for a total of 32 points for the club.
In the playoffs, he had 3 goals and 6 assists for 9 points in eight games played. The 6 assists led the team.
I spoke briefly with Bowman on April 29, after the Rats were eliminated from the playoffs by the Hershey Bears.
Q: What can you take away from a series like this one, and what are your feelings about your season in general?
A: It's disappointing obviously, we were right there every game. We were leading in each third period, but at the end of the day you have to hold those leads in the playoffs. As far as the season goes, I feel pretty positive. I played pretty well. A lot of the guys had a chance to play up in Carolina, which is good. But we just couldn't quite put it together in the second round of the playoffs.
Q: Do you have any specific goals for next season and what will you be working on the most during the offseason?
A: My goal for next year is to make the team in Carolina. I firmly believe that I can play up there if they give me a chance and I'm hoping at training camp I will get one. But I know I will have to produce.
I pretty much know as a professional what it takes to keep in top shape and that's what I'll be working on during the offseason. I'll be working hard on my conditioning and especially will try to get stronger legs so that I can be quicker and be stronger on the puck. I'll be spending most of my offseason back home in Denver, but plan to come to Raleigh early before the preseason so I can get some skating in and work out with the guys.
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Bowman and Desire to Play
Bowman has struck me from the time he was draft eligible as a hockey player who would do whatever it took to become an NHL player. He was that way in working toward being drafted; and continues that way today. His overall play improved dramatically while at Albany; and he has a tremendous amount of skill. I thought his skating and decision-making improved the most while at Albany. Bowman is also one of those players who has the mind-set of a goal scorer. He’d skate through the glass to put the puck in the back of the net.
I really wonder if Jim Rutherford is going to be active in the pre-season trying to work some trades of a veteran or two in order to make room for players like Bowman. Whatever happens in 2010-2011; by 2011-2012, I think players like Bowman, Boychuk, Dalpe, Osala, Tlusty, Dwyer, and Samson will be playing as regulars for the Hurricanes.
Apart from desire to play which all these guys have, I think the guys in our system that have the ability to play at the NHL level are probably only Bowman, Boychuk, Dalpe, McBain, and Carson. What I like about Bowman is his ability to score goals, he seems to be one of those guys that the puck follows for whatever reason. What I don’t like about Bowman is he seems to be a little streaky, so I’m not sure what he contributes when he’s not scoring goals. In any case, it’s starting to seem like it’s his spot to lose.
I disagree respectfully with your assessment; but would appreciate a fuller explanation of the basis for your conclusion. Specifically, why do you believe Tlusty, Osala, and Samson are not NHL quality players? Osala is playing in the world championship tournament for Finland — along with some of the best hockey players in the world. Tlusty is a former first round draft choice; and the Hurricanes organization has been very clear they expect Tlusty to be a good player for the Hurricanes. Similarly, Jason Karmanos has stated he believes at some point in the near future Samson will be playing at Carolina. Tlusty has been hampered by injuries this year after being sent to Albany to work on his goal scoring. I hope this post does not come across as snarky because that is the furthest thing from my mind. I did wonder what you saw in Tlusty, Osala, and Samson that made you reach your conclusion.
When you say these guys:
Bowman, Boychuk, Dalpe, McBain, and Carsonare the guys who can play in the NHL, do you mean immediately, for the 2010-11 season or over the long term?
That’s a pretty short list.
I’m thinking we also have Brian Dumoulin at Boston College, but you may have meant only the ones under pro contracts,
Only asking because I think it’s an interesting and probably more realistic statement than many of the posts I’ve seen here. I also think that professionally, Brett Carson is like Sutter at this point. He’s made the leap and is an NHLer. McBain probably is too, based on Rutherford’s comments last month.
Other names I think need to be considered: Jiri Tlusty, Oskar Osala, Samson, Nick Dodge, Chris Terry, Bryan Rodney, Casey Borer, Justin Peters, Mike Murphy. Not sure where to put Patty Dwyer.
Olympian Tim Gleason in Vancouver: "I don’t care what anybody says, to watch an exciting hockey game, there’s nothing like it."
by Carolyn Christians on May 5, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Dwyer
I know the Hurricanes organization has been very enthusiastic about Dwyer. I wonder how he fits into the team’s plans long-term due to the depth at forward. Dwyer is very, very solid and rarely makes mistakes. He is an excellent penalty-killer; but when I look at the choices available, it seems he is facing a serious challenge. For example:
1. Dwyer versus Tlusty: I would take Tlusty;
2. Dwyer versus Boychuk: I would take Boychuk;
3. Dwyer versus Dalpe: I would take Dalpe;
4. Dwyer versus Osala: I would take Osala;
5. Dwyer versus Connally, Johansen, Watson, Niederreiter: I would take Connally, Johansen, Watson, Niederreiter;
6. Dwyer versus Samson: That is a closer call; both are talented and both play with a ton of heart. It is too close to call for me. I like Samson’s strength and size and desire; but at present he takes penalties that Dwyer does not take. Hard call, I think.
7. Dwyer versus Bowman: I would take Bowman.
8. Dwyer versus Terry: That is another hard call. Terry has tremendous potential; and could be a sleeper. He has great hands, great vision, and is a puck magnet.
I also disagree about that assessment as it relates to the forwards.
If anything, Samson is far more likely to play immediately than any of the others except maybe Boychuk.
The question is whether you want to plug him into the fourth line or is he ready/good enough to play 3rd line minutes? And if you expect him to develop into a guy who can play 3rd line minutes, do you want to bring him up and give him only 4th line minutes?
But I also have to disagree about Dwyer. It is not Dwyer vs Boychuk, or Dalpe or Osala. Dwyer is a Craig Adams/Jeff Daniels fourth liner/penalty killer. That’s what he’ll always be. Those guys are valuable and cheap, and you’re not going to take a Boychuk or a Dalpe or a Osala and stick them into that role and possibly hinder their development.
Finally, although I love the potential of all of these young forwards, none of them have proven to date that they can produce at the NHL level. Dwyer, at least, has been through the wars now. Ultimately, there is going to be some disappointment and some bumps in the road for these other guys.
Fourth Line Players
Interestingly, Sutter spent some significant amount of his time on the fourth line — even this season. I think the Hurricanes use their fourth line as a way of getting young players NHL experience without putting too much of a burden on them to produce. My view is different that some posters here at CC. I think the entire organization is committed to nurturing young players and being cautious in their development. I don’t see the fourth line for the Hurricanes as being that place for the Yelles of the NHL — players long past their prime, but who can kill penalties; other than when there are not young, talented forwards in the system who can spend some time on the fourth line as a way of giving them NHL minutes.
Dwyer has been through the wars. He has much to commend him. Where I differ with some here at CC is that I predict the Hurricanes will do their best to turn the fourth line into a meaningful, highly productive line. At the start of this year, I believe there will be a shuttling of players back and forth between Carolina and Charlotte. After the trade deadline, if the young players develop as I believe they will, Jim Rutherford will trade some of the veteran forwards whose contracts are expiring. If the young players still seem to need more time, there won’t be as many trades; and the same process of shuttling young players will continue into 2011-2012 until the young players are ready to take over.
Jim Rutherford and Jason Karmanos didn’t accumulate this amazing cadre of young prospects only to trade them away so other teams could benefit from the coaching and nurturing they received at Carolina. In a salary cap era, young talent is essential. Also, to play Hurricanes hockey, the young legs and ethusiasm are essential elements of success. That style is highly demanding and it takes the ability of forwards to cover vast amounts of ice at high speed for the system to work well. The forwards have to outskate their opponents, offensively and defensively, out-battle the other team in the corners, and crash the net consistently for the style to work well. It’s a young player’s style — as long as it is balanced with some skilled veterans.
Ok, I guess I’ll try to make my points more realistic and less sarcastic going forward. Anyway, I think if expand the list beyond those names it’s really hard to forecast how good we are going to be with the lack of experience or known upside these guys have. It’s pretty clear that Bowman, Boychuk, Dalpe (maybe not next year), McBain, and Carson should have good NHL careers (hopefully with the Canes), the other guys (Tlust, Osala, Samson, Dodge, Terry, Rodney, and Borer) it’s a lot harder to predict. I’m not sure clearing out Samsonov, Cole, LaRose, and TKO (as some have suggested) to allow roster spots for our prospects will get us any closer to a playoff spot. I like most of main pieces and I think what this year showed is we have organization depth.
Cole, Samsonov, LaRose
The contracts for Cole, Samsonov, and LaRose expire at the end of 2010-2011. Cole is paid $2,900,000.00; Samsonov is paid $2,533,000.00; and LaRose is paid $1,900,000.00. If you were Jim Rutherford, which of those three players would you re-sign and for what salary? If you are not going to re-sign them or feel you cannot re-sign them, then would your trade them if you could so you could obtain assets/draft choices for them or would you play them the entire year?
Obviously it depends on what happens next year. I think what JR’s learned is that rewarding older players with deals longer than 2 years tends to hurt the organization and we’ve been burnt twice in the past five years by this. They’ve all proven to be inconsistent and Cole’s been injury prone, so if we’re not in a playoff position in Feb next year I’m shipping all three out, all three were clearly overpaid for what they contributed last season. I think LaRose and Cole can bounce back and be productive next year and I’m optimistic about that; Samsonov, I’m completely fine if we ship out this summer, I think we have better players in our top 6 and I don’t like him in our bottom 6, I think we fill that role for less money and get as good production.
Samsonov would seem to be the guy most likely to move. I would hope that he would re-up LaRose at some point. When healthy, he is a good player at good value.
If you move Samsonov, Brindy retires, re-sign Whitney and bring back Cullen or another quality 3rd line center, that creates two forward roster spots available for the youngster. I think that’s what you want — no more and no less. And we don’t need to be moving the Juss or Ruutu to center, or rely on an unproven Dalpe. The team needs another guy in the middle that can push back defenders, like Cullen.
You create those two roster spots with the expectation that Boychuk can step in as a third line winger and let Samson, Osala and Tlusty battle it out to play alongside TKO and Dwyer on the fourth line.
Then the other youngsters will get time filling in as the season goes along.
Cole, Samsonov, and LaRose
scoop10, as I asked Go_Shelf, if you are Jim Rutherford and as you have LaRose, Samsonov, and Cole with contracts expiring at the end of 2010-2011, do you conclude you can re-sign them, do you trade them, do you extend their contract? In other words, what do you do as Jim Rutherford to deal with the fact the LaRose, Samsonov, and Cole contracts end in 2010-2011?
As far as Cole, I was interested in reviewing videos that even though he was injured in the second game with a fractured leg, he came back and skated hard. LaRose, too, was injured almost the entire year. If you are going to decide to trade Cole, LaRose, or Samsonov, wouldn’t you want to have planned for that occurrence? On the other hand, if you want to keep them, don’t you have to extend their contracts over the summer rather than risk losing them?
Do you think the work our prospects have done at the AHL level merits moving out our experienced NHL’ers? It seems if you could have it your way you’d award roster spots to Osala, Dwyer, Dodge, Tlusty, Samson, Bowman, Boychuk, and Dalpe.
Contracts Expiring in 2010-2011
What I think is that Samsonov, Cole, LaRose, and Brind’Amour have contracts that expire at the end of 2010-2011. As a result, Jim Rutherford has to decide what he wants his team to look like next season and for seasons beyond. I think Jim Rutherford will prefer some younger, faster, more physical players over Samsonov and will work to trade him over the summer if he can. In any event, if Jim Rutherford can trade Samsonov by the trade deadline he will do so. I think Brind’Amour and Jim Rutherford will work out an arrangement whereby Brind’Amour joins the Hurricanes organization. I think unless Cole goes through 2010-2011 without missing significant time due to injury, he will either be traded at the deadline or not re-signed. I have a harder time trying to assess what happens with LaRose. I think at $1,900,000.00, LaRose has to return to top six form. Also, if Jim Rutherford doesn’t feel he can afford LaRose, I think he will trade LaRose at the deadline. LaRose is a Hurricanes from his early days; and he likely will remain a Hurricane. He has been one of the hardest working players on the team; and has been the heart and soul of the Hurricanes. Whether he can continue to hold a roster spot in light of the talent pool on the team is something I don’t know.
I think that the organization will have lines at the start of the 2010-2011 season that look like:
Whitney/Staal/Jokinen
LaRose/Sutter/Ruutu
Boychuk/Dalpe/Cole
Bowman/Dwyer/Kostopoulos
(I think Jim Rutherford will find a taker for Samsonov). I think Tlusty, Osala, and Samson will rotate through the line up from Charlotte in place of Bowman, Dalpe, and even perhaps Boychuk, during the first part of the season. In the end, I think Jim Rutherford will reach the conclusion that at the trade deadline he has to make room for more of the young players and will have no choice but to trade Kostopoulos and either Cole or LaRose.
What I think from having watched seasons of Hurricanes games at the RBC, and hours of Hurricanes and Albany Rats games is that the talent level for the Hurricanes is at an all time high; and I think teams win consistently by having their most talented players on the ice. In every sport there are different positions and different needs. Hockey is not unique in that regard; but in the end, the most skilled, most committed, and most consistent players will be awarded roster spots.
How will this work?
AD, why on earth would you want to see Bowman on the 4th line, or think for a second that Mo would play him there? I saw your point about Sutter on the 4th line, but that was a temporary punishment/motivational tool. 4th line (and the 3rd really) is for defensive purposes and role players, not for development of youngsters. What team has ever had high level success while playing top-six prospects on the bottom end of the roster? What team has ever had success without penalty killers and agitators?
Also, at 1.9 million, Larose does not need to play top six minutes. He is a perfect third liner, and hopefully we will keep him there for many years to come.
Sutter and Boychuk on the Fourth Line
During 2008-2009 Sutter spent time on the fourth line as a means of having him adjust to the NHL style of play; and in no way was it a form of punishment. In 2009-2010, Sutter and Boychuk each spent time on the fourth line; and again their time on the fourth line was to get accommodated to NHL play. Bowman will likely spend some games on the fourth line in 2010-2011 as part of his development. The Hurricanes didn’t stick their young players on the fourth line to motivate them; and to the contrary the idea was to help them by not rushing them into top nine minutes before they were ready physically or emotionally. The last thing a young player needs is to have his confidence shattered.
I disagree with the assessment that LaRose is perfect on the third line, although he is an excellent player. I would not put LaRose on the third line in place of Boychuk, Dalpe, Bowman, Cole, Osala,Tlusty, or Dwyer. Depending on Samson’s and Dodge’s development, they too may take over third line time. It isn’t that LaRose is a bad player; of course he is not. It is that LaRose lacks the high degree of skill that Boychuk, Dalpe, Bowman, Cole, Osala, or Tlusty possess. Cole obviously has had injury problems and those are likely to shorten his NHL career. I also disagree that $1,900,000.00 is the going rate for a third line player who scores 10 to 15 goals.
I look to Phoenix that is playing Taylor Pyatt on the fourth line. Pyatt is a former first round draft choice and has tremendous skill — even though he has battled with consistency issues throughout his career. I look to Detroit and see Eaves and Helm on the fourth line. Many teams take their younger players and give them time on the fourth line. San Jose has rotated young, talented players in and out of the fourth line all season long. What team with talent doesn’t follow that approach?
In terms of penalty killing, the penalty kill worked quite well while LaRose was injured. LaRose was taking one or two shifts of penalty killing time during the past ten games after he returned from being injured. Sutter, Staal, Dwyer, Jokinen, Ruutu, Cole, Tlusty, Bowman, and Dalpe can all kill penalties. Samson can kill penalties.
For the most part I agree with you. Cole and LaRose could be on the outs at the end of season depending on how they play, I disagree about TKO, we have him until 2012-13 I believe at 916K, he’s more versatile than any of our prospects (grinds, fights, kills penalties, and brings a little offense). Most of our prospects want to be top nine forwards and if they are going to fill a role that’s where it will be. TKO is a bottom six foward, he knows it and for what we pay him he does a great job. Those are probably the best line combos I’ve seen yet (most realistic), but I don’t see Bowman playing on the 4th line. He’s a goal scorer and has prepared his whole career to fulfill that role, he will not develop playing 5-7 minutes/game against the other teams 4th line. I know you think we should put together 4 scoring lines from previous posts with the best offensive players in our organization and just role them, but that’s only done at all-star games, it’s an interesting idea but it doesn’t seem to work. Every organization has great talent, but the best talent doesn’t usually win the Stanley Cup otherwise SJ would have won the past 4, what wins is the right pieces and the right chemistry, which is why most organizations don’t put players like Drayson Bowman on their 4th line.
San Jose is a Great Example
San Jose and Phoenix are building teams the way I am suggesting. Detroit for the most part has built teams that way as well. You take four lines of excellent players who are solid defensively but who also have offensive talent; and you pound and pound and pound the other team. Ultimately you look to force the other’s team’s third and fourth line grinders to play against your talented third and fourth line players and they swarm all over the grinders. San Jose is wasting Detroit at the moment using that approach. Phoenix made huge strides using that approach.
NHL teams with the salary cap win playoff games with their third and fourth line scoring and hitting to create turnovers. Chicago is doing the same thing over the past two games to an excellent Vancouver team.
Yes, they all have a nice mix of players, but none of them ask goal scorers to play on their 3rd & 4th lines. Scott Nichol, John Madden, Taylor Pyatt, Torrey Mitchell, Adam Burrish, Ben Eager weren’t players that came out of junior expecting to be goal scorers, which what I think separates Bowman. Bowman’s not a overly physically player, he’s a finesse player, I think that if the only role he can fit is on the 4th line he’s probably better off spending another year in the AHL. Boychuk said it best in an interview he gave this year when he basically said it was tough for him to play in a bottom 6 role because the guys were bigger and they put a lot more emphasis on the body and he wasn’t used to that.
LaRose, etc.
AD, as I said, I would look at re-uping LaRose at some point, whether this summer or during the season. On the other hand, I think LaRose knows that he may not fit with every organization, so he’d think long and hard before leaving anyway if given a valid offer even next summer.
But maybe you want the flexibility, if you are JR, of being able to move either he or Cole near the trade deadline if need. Certainly, having all these good prospects gives you options.
But I have to again disagree when you start talking about how much better these prospects are than proven NHLers like LaRose. They’ve proven nothing. Maybe they will be better, but no one knows that right now.
You would be taking a huge risk penciling in Dalpe at 3rd line center. And I agree with Go_Shelf. Tlusty or Samson are far more likely to fill that fourth line spot than Bowman.
Frankly, your philosphy, compared to the start of this past season, seems to be going from one extreme to the other. We need a happy medium.
LaRose
If you are Jim Rutherford, what salary are you willing to pay LaRose and for what length of time — i.e. one year or two years? In terms of Bowman’s play, he has become increasingly physical in his play; but obviously his long term role is as a second line wing. With his shot, depending on his strength and his skating, he could be like Jokinen and move easily to a first line depending on who else is playing with Staal — for example Bowman/Staal/Ruutu.
Taylor Pyatt was drafted as a scoring, big, fast forward; and plays on the power play for San Jose. Many teams use their fourth line positions to help players adjust to the NHL style of play and the Hurricanes have done that over the past two seasons. I have no doubt that Samson and Tlusty may see some fourth line minutes this upcoming season.
What surprises me to some degree is that some people at CC seem to be reacting more to the idea that LaRose might face a situation where he is beaten out of a roster position than reacting to having watched Bowman, Tlusty, Dalpe, Samson, Osala, Dodge, Boychuk, and Terry play and then remark that based on seeing their skating, or their defensive positioning or their level or speed or their shooting prowess or work around the net, that they concluded the players were not ready for the NHL.
With regard to LaRose, it would also be one rational analysis to say that LaRose had a career year in 2008-2009 and then was not even close to the player in 2009-2010 that he was in 2008-2009. I disagree with that position; but it is a position that could be made from looking at the statistics for LaRose over his career. I think the fairer view to LaRose is that he was trying to play with injuries and would have been better off taking time off until he healed. Still, LaRose has had one 19 game season in his career. Samsonov’s career as a body of work reflects much greater consistency in scoring, as does Cole’s career as a body of work.
So the question then becomes, with regard to Samsonov, Cole, and LaRose — are their teams that would take them now in trade? Are their teams that would take them at the trade deadline? Should they be re-signed? If not all three, then who? And of course for how much. Typically unless a GM knows he wants to re-sign a player with an expiring contract and knows in his heart of hearts he has the money available at a price he wants to pay, the expiring contract players are traded — i.e. Corvo, Cullen, Walker, Yelle, A. Ward, Alberts, and Wallin.
Taylor Pyatt was drafted as a scoring, big, fast forward; and plays on the power play for San Jose.
Actually, it’s Phoenix, not San Jose, and as a further reality check for our drafting fantasy games, here’s an 8th overall draft pick playing on a fourth line (12-11-23) at age 28.
As for your principal question, yes, JR will begin to assess just who’s staying and who’s going as the draft deadline approaches.
But, I’m not going to begin to get into a discussion as to who are the keepers from such a distant position from that decision.
Plus, it depends on where we are in the playoff mix. Not all UFA’s go out the door, if JR thinks we’re making a run.
That was what was so “fortunate” about this past season…we knew we weren’t going, so he could conduct a firesale of our overstocked UFA’ers without a concern as to how that would affect our playoff performance.
Sorry for the Mind Freeze on Taylor Pyatt.
It seems to me that Jim Rutherford and Jason Karmanos have to have an idea of the kind of team they want to build before they can build it. Who stays and who goes is always some degree flexible depending on the individual’s performance; but over all, it would be illogical to assume they simply drafted and signed various players without a plan in mind. Every public statement I am aware of by both Jim Rutherford and Jason Karmanos has been consistent in saying they realize the Hurricanes need to become bigger, faster, and more physical as a team. The drafting in 2009 reflected that decision. I expect the drafting in 2010 will reflect that approach as well. The team in Albany has consistently trended toward bigger, faster, more physical; and the trades of veterans like A. Ward, Wallin, Alberts, and Yelle jettisoned slower players.
The questions above are questions that Jim Rutheford and Jason Karmanos surely are asking themselves as they evaluate the team for the upcoming seasons.
In watching
Drayson for a few seasons now…from the time he was with Spokane up to now…the young man has the skills,the tools and abilities needed to be the kind of stable,dependable and consistent player the Canes organization need and will have need of…he is lke the Juice…not flashy…works hard and when you look up he’s there…with the puck on his stick either heading for or shoting at the net…does lots of support too but we don’t talk too much about that do we ?? (wink) Personally I as a fan will be disappointed if he didn’t get on the reg. roster this time around…but he has shown that he will do what ever it takes to get on the roster…and stay there…gee sounds alot like Brandon Sutter doesn’t it ?? have a good day folks…have to go a lng day for me..very long…day…Go Canes…Go Checkers
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