Rutherford: "Restricted Free Agents Will Be Qualified"
by Bob Wage on Jun 28, 2010 7:01 AM EDT
66 comments
The Carolina Hurricanes still have several restricted free agents needing contracts and time is becoming an issue. If the Canes do not come to terms with those players by July 1, the club needs to submit "qualifying offers" to the league office beforehand in order to keep them in restricted status. Otherwise, they become unrestricted free agents and would be at liberty to freely negotiate with any team.
Some of you will recall last year when (at that time) Chicago GM Dale Tallon failed to get the proper paperwork to the league office on time causing five of his RFA's to legally hit the market. He signed those players anyway, but the Hawks ended up paying much more money than they needed to and worse yet, risked losing them. Kris Versteeg was one of those players.
The gaffe probably cost Tallon his job in Chicago, but he recently landed on his feet and is now GM in Florida.
On Saturday, I asked Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford if the team was planning to qualify all of it's RFA's and then we discussed a couple of them specifically.
Defensemen Alexandre Picard and Brett Carson will most definitely be qualified as will goalies Justin Peters and Justin Pogge.
I asked if Casey Borer would be included in that group and Rutherford responded, "Yes, Borer will also be qualified. At this time we plan to qualify all of our RFA's."
When asked about the difficulty signing these players, Rutherford responded that they all wanted one-way deals.
"We want to sign these players to two-way contracts and they want a one-way. It's just negotiations that are ongoing and will remain in process until something is completed."
With the team in full budget mode, the two-way deal versus a one-way becomes very important, but it's also important to the player. When looking at Jerome Samson's recent deal, he makes five times the amount in the NHL that he makes in the AHL. Plus from the player's perspective, they want to put as much pressure on the team as possible to keep them in the NHL.
But from the club's perspective, they want to make sure they do not overpay anyone. Tim Conboy had a one-way deal last year, but played most of the time in the AHL. The Canes want to make sure they don't make that mistake again.
The two-way deal is actually a pretty fair way to go because the player earns exactly the amount they deserve, depending upon the league they play in.
We will be watching this closely as July 1 approaches.
I also asked about Justin Krueger, the defenseman out of Cornell who played so well for Team Germany during the WC's this spring. Tony MacDonald told me earlier that the Canes were high on him and wanted to sign him.
"It looks like Krueger wants to play a year or two in Europe and develop there," Rutherford told me. "We're still trying to get something done, but Europe is a real possibility for him".
Krueger might make more money in Europe right now than he would get from Carolina and if he considers himself to be an AHL level player, it might make more sense for him to play there. But if he wants to someday make it to the NHL, maybe he should consider the more typical career path?
The Canes lose their rights to him in August.
Finally, another writer spoke to the GM about the goalie situation around the league. He asked Rutherford if he had ever seen so many quality goaltenders on the market.
"No actually, I have not." said the GM. "There are several very good goaltenders on the market and many of them will probably still be there come September. We think we have a very good young goaltender in Justin Peters, but if we see someone we like in September that fits our budget, we might just go and get him."
Manny Legace fans, take heart.
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Krueger and Nash
I suspect that when Ron Francis was watching Krueger at Cornell, he noticed and scouted Nash. It doesn’t sound too hopeful that Krueger will sign with Carolina, reading between the lines. I thought Krueger looked quite good in the WCs. It’s interesting because his father is does some scouting for the Hurricanes. Maybe they can trade his rights for a draft pick if he won’t sign with Carolina. This situation seems almost the exact reverse of Nash.
If he doesn't want to play in the NHL...
Nobody will want his rights.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 28, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking Krueger didn’t want to play in the AHL for $50,000.00 and that some other NHL team might have a spot for him.
No doubt and maybe never will be. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Nash going back for his final season which is the reason Edmonton gave up on him?
It seems that, more than anything, Nash just didn’t want to be in Edmonton. Rather than lose him following next year’s draft, the Oilers decided to part ways with him. Francis told us on the conference call Sat. that JR would have to talk to Nash’s agent. That doesn’t necessarily mean the Canes want him pro this season, but they might and it could be explored. And I think Nash would be more willing to turn pro with Carolina than he was with Edmonton, but it’s too early in the game to know for sure.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 28, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I gathered, but it still strikes me as a little odd, he grew up in BF nowhere, played junior hockey BF nowhere, and doesn’t want to play in Edmonton. He must really want to finish school which makes no sense or has a problem with the Oilers org. I hope it’s the latter, if he does go back it could be 2-3 years before we see him in a Canes jersey if at all.
Edmonton is an organizational mess. In some ways it is much worse than Toronto. Unless a player is a complete dominating star, neither Edmonton or Toronto are places that are healthy of a young player’s long term career.
I don’t think so, I think they made some bad bets and have paid dearly for them. The pressure to win is a little different then down here and JR doesn’t have to take the big risks that would otherwise be expected of him. They’ll be exciting to watch next year, they had more people show-up for their draft party then LA had at the actual draft. Who wouldn’t want to play in a city like that.
Maybe he doesn’t want to go back to BF nowhere? Not to slight Edmonton. If I could convince the wife I’d love to move there, but of all the NHL cities, it’s the closest to BF nowhere if you’re looking for a change.
I just wish JR would have given up Ray Whitney for Lent.
Riley Nash
Get out your salt shakers and apply as many grains as you think appropriate to this blog entry.
But, it does look like impatience over Nash’s decision to finish his senior year, plus the very real chance of losing the asset later this summer drove the trade.
Also note the compensatory 51st overall (I saw 50th overall elsewhere) pick for losing him. This, no doubt, drove the decision to take JR’s 46th overall offer, dated this year’s draft and not next year’s compensatory pick.
Also says we definitely did not overpay, assuming he’s anything at all.
JR seemed to imply they did want him in the pros.
He talked about how they wanted to see him against top-level competition night in and night out.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 28, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't know whether that's why they gave up on him...
But he does seem to be leaning towards a Cornell return.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 28, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
my question is
will the Canes organization collapse if we don’t physically sign Krueger ? just how much does the Canes as a team have actually & physically invested in him ? if it is nothing aside from the expence of what it costs to go see and check the players progress…then if that is the case and if he (krurger) does bolt off to europe what did the canes really lose / Why keep a player that doesn’t want to be with the team / to me if what i laid out is true…then dump the guy or sell his rights and be done with it..and go on…why make this harder than it needs to be …like & time are too short…as what July 1 is just 3.5 days away…and the clock IS ticking…
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
Nino WAS The One ! But TB got him !!!
The team hasn’t invested anything outside a draft pick (and a seventh at that), but he’s developed into a fringe prospect and I think they’d like to have them. Still, if he wants to go to Europe then decides to come back, I think the Canes would welcome him and even tho they won’t hold his rights I’d think Carolina would be his top choice given 1) that’s the team that drafted him; 2) his dad has worked for the Canes in the past as a PT Euro scout.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 28, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
hey Cory
good to see ya…and i was looking at this from a purely business sence without the emotional factor …i agree that over all JR & the coaching staff will and do want him…and no there is no real harm in trying to bulk up and get some actual experience , but still i see it as business is still business…and the canes didn’t come or get this far worrying to death over the “small stuff”…
again this fan humbly thanks you Bob for the time 7 energies soent…i know it wasn’t easy..after all how often do fans actually get what they want ? i almost forgot…was what AD asked about concering Marc Staal & an offer sheet really happen ? or was that just a teaser to get some peoples blood pressure up ??? Be safe & stay cool
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
Nino WAS The One ! But TB got him !!!
I wouldn’t say they’re worried about losing him. They’d like to have him, but I doubt they’re saying “where do we go from here!?” over him perhaps going to Europe.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 28, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
is there a way for him to go to europe but us still own him when he gets back, kind of like babchuk?
Only if he’s signed and leaves (w/o permission) or is loaned.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 28, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure I understand your question. Buyouts are for UFA’s with existing contracts (non-expiring), so that would be a separate issue than qualifying offers on RFA’s.
It's gonna be a long summer. [But a helluva weekend!]
Twitter @HMof2
by hockeymomof2 on Jun 28, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
no, still no decision on the possible buyouts of Samsonov and Brind’Amour yet.
Editing Manager of CanesCountry.com
That’s what (and who) I was referring to, thank you Bob. Is July 1st the deadline for saying Goodbye to Sergei and Rod?
Not if one of the players files for arbitration. If someone files for Arbitration then the Canes have until 3 days after there final arbitration case is settled.
I just wish JR would have given up Ray Whitney for Lent.
True, but I’m not sure I see an arbitration candidate among our RFA’s.
Most are too young to even have that right, since I think you have to have four seasons under your belt.
No Tiger Al ( and Bob)
the player is under no “Legal” or fiscal obligation to the canes…so if he goes off to europe all the canes can or could do is wave bye…and Bob was what Ad was aking about an offer sheet for marc Staal…do you think JR would actually try something like that ? myself i don’t see it happening…as we all can dream but in reality…not gonna happen…too much $$$…good to have back and hope you’re rested up…
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
Nino WAS The One ! But TB got him !!!
I doubt it … esp. with all the D that are already in place for next season. Not only do you have to make the offer sheet, but you then risk losing mult. picks if the sheet is not matched.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 28, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
marc staal
some one tell me this.
would it be worth it to go after marc staal with a package of defensive prospects or whatever, or wait and make an offer sheet when we can.
pd says there is a stalemate on his contract extension right now
as an rfa could or would it be worth it?
news and observer quotes Rutherford as saying both Picard and Carson will get one way offers
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/canes/rutherford-met-with-whitneys-agent-at-draft
Interesting to see...
That players will sacrifice maximum pay on two-ways for the security of one-ways. I hadn’t thought of that possibility.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 28, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Picard and Carson on one way
Thus far it looks like:
Gleason[#1 draft]/McBain [#2 draft]
Pitkanen [#1 draft]/Carson [#2 draft]
Babchuk [#1 draft]/Sanguinetti [#1 draft]
Picard [#3] as extra
If one looks at the draft picks, it is a solid indication of some significant degree of physical talent. Then add Gleason and Pitkanen as members of their Olympic teams.
Harrison is on a one way too, so he is likely to be waived down to Charlotte if Sanguinetti jumps in to play the third pairing; Harrison was waived this year and nobody claimed him, so it looks like he is the new Conboy in that respect.
Small point, but Carson is actually a 4th rounder from the 2007 draft that was so good for us: Ladd → Ruutu (1st), Peters (2nd), Borer (3rd), Carson (4th)
Borer
Elsker, do you think Borer will get back to being a top prospect for the Hurricanes or has that window closed with his knee and neck injury?
Last I heard...
The AHL staff was impressed with his play at the end of last season, not just for a guy coming off an injury, but in general.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 28, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry for the misinformation. I really appreciate very much your helping me get it right. I should have checked my memory against reality…
Carson’s certainly turned out good enough to have warranted being a 2nd rounder.
As for Borer, I have NO information whatsoever. Maybe Bob, Cory, or one of our former River rat posters has some insight.
Certainly was encouraging to see him up for an appearance at the end of last season.
Borer had all the tools prior to the bus crash to be a solid NHL defensemen. Probably not a top pair guy, but certainly a second pair guy. He looked decent when I saw him in Norfolk and okay while on the big team at the end of the year. It’s hard to judge where he is at having been out of the game for almost a year. I still think it’s possible he could be a regular NHLer, but I think it’s less likely now than it was two years ago.
I just wish JR would have given up Ray Whitney for Lent.
When i talked to JD last season, he said they kind of just threw Casey back into the fray and were playing him back in to game shape. The knee thing is a long way removed … I wouldn’t worry about that as far as his long term upside. The neck thing is the bigger concern. He has a chance to be a real big part of the Checkers next year … it’s a huge season for him.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 28, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Pogge and Borer can forget one-way contracts. What have they ever done to demonstrate that they would be able to play an entire year in the NHL?
With Carson and Peters, it’s hard to see how the Canes lose much by dropping the demand for a two-way deal. Both are going to start the year in Carolina. Even if they underperformed, you’d think injury would cause them to play the overwhelming amount of the games at the NHL level.
For Peters, if he doesn’t play well early on, then Ward just plays more games. If Ward has any injury issues, then someone else has to be brought in anyway. The interesting one is Picard. I can see him wanting a one-way, but I’m still not sure how he fits in if Babchuk is back.
Picard and Sanguinetti
I think Picard and Sanguinetti battle over the pairing with Babchuk; however, Jim Rutherford has said previously he expected to see Babchuk in the second pairing. I haven’t seen the Hurricanes have that many excellent offensive skaters on defense previously.
Why would we sign Harrison with the intent of waiving him? If anybody is on the outside I would think it would be Carson and Picard.
Is it October yet?
by hotchipsnsalsa on Jun 28, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Harrison was waived last year; and as I recall it was at least twice. I don’t think the Hurricanes will waive Carson; and I sincerely doubt they will waive Picard. Harrison is a safe bet because he already made it through waivers. Of course, the issue how fantastic is Harrison if nobody wanted him on re-entry waivers?
Yea, I get that. But I don’t the reason for signing a guy if you are not confidant he will play. Seems like a waste to me, but I don’t understand all of the cap space and salary mathematics. I guess i was suggesting that they may decide on either Carson or Picard and only sign one of them since Harrison is already signed — not that they would make an offer to waive one later.
Is it October yet?
by hotchipsnsalsa on Jun 28, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think he’s going down, at least not from the get-go. I really wonder what Picard’s future is with the team, b/c to me he looks like the odd-man out. A lot hinges on Sanguinetti’s ability to make the team. If he can’t, then they can keep seven guys and scratch Harrison or Picard. But if Sanguinetti makes the team, I really think they look to move Picard.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 28, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Cory, I think most people agree with your analysis. I much prefer Picard to Harrison based on what I’ve seen thus far; but it will be fairer to see how everybody plays at camp because Harrison was reported to be playing through injuries. Picard is younger and is a much better shot and is a much better skater.
I do, too … but I worry about Picard b/c he doesn’t seem to improve. We may only be talking a fraction better improvement, and the cost vs. Harrison might lead the team to move Picard. All that being said, JR talked about the importance of depth on D and we’ve seen in year’s past how important having several reserves is.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 28, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess Rutherford changed his mind, both picard and carson to be UFAs
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/canes/picard-and-carson-to-go-unrestricted
I wonder how Carson’s offer compared to Harrisons
by Whitless? on Jun 28, 2010 5:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Hey everyone! Haven’t posted here in a while. Any of you think the money saved from not qualifying Picard and Carson is gonna is gonna be the money they use to sign Babchuk… or do you think they already have him budgeted in too the teams plans? Or will they actually explore the possibility of re-signing Pothier or another FA?
Let the new era of Hurricanes hockey.... begin!
by 3yrsnoplayoffs? on Jun 28, 2010 6:03 PM EDT reply actions
Basically said they could take that money and roll it in to one player. Still, that’s like $1.5M. Not talking a big-time defender at that cost. I feel like they’ll get Carson done, let Picard walk.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 28, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Carson and Contract
Cory, unless there is a much bigger deal in the works, I agree that taking some of Picard’s cash and melding it into a one way for Carson makes sense. It also could be that in California a bigger deal started cooking. One could theorize for example, Cole and a first round for Marc Staal – with the knowledge that Cole has only a year on his contract. It’s just an example; but the timing is odd. Also, I keep reading the Rodney was extended, but I thought he was a Group VI UFA. Is Rodney re-signed?
I don’t think signing Carson would take much more than his QO (at least not with what the Canes are willing to pay for him). In the end, I just think they’ll keep Carson and sit on the Picard money to go toward the rest of the team.
Nothing official on Rodney yet, but JR did mention him has an option as a call-up if the team moved fwd w/o Carson and Picard.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 29, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
hey 3yrs
good to see ya out 7 back…and we’ll just have to wait 7 see…as july 1 is what just over 28 hours and 16 mins away…so i’m just gonna sit back and wait & see…
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
The Checkers 3rd Sweater ROCKS !!!
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