Summer Trade Idea: Sergei Samsonov for Kevin Bieksa
by Bob Wage on Jul 17, 2010 11:30 PM EDT
88 comments
Occasionally we will come up with trade ideas to talk about here on the blog, especially during the dog days of summer when real hockey news can be lacking. (Sometimes we get one right, most times we do not.)
Right now the Hurricanes have six defensemen signed to one-way deals, (or who have locked up a spot): Tim Gleason, Joni Pitkanen, Joe Corvo, Jamie McBain, Anton Babchuk, and Jay Harrison. Three more are signed to two-way deals, Bobby Sanguinetti, Casey Borer, and Bryan Rodney.
Some fans are concerned about the blueline and even Jim Rutherford mentioned that he was still trying to sign either Brett Carson or Alexandre Picard, two previous RFA's who were not tendered qualifying offers. Carson would probably be the preferred choice here, a home grown stay at home guy who was solid in his own end last season. But the previous one-way deal which was offered to him before Joe Corvo was signed is now off the table and a two-way contract has been offered in it's place. Will he accept it?
The Canes seem to be loaded with potential at the forward position, so much so that perhaps a couple of young guns who think they might deserve to be in Raleigh, might end up in Charlotte. Eric Staal, Erik Cole, Tuomo Ruutu, Jussi Jokinen, Brandon Sutter, Sergei Samsonov, Chad LaRose, Tom Kostopoulos, and Jiri Tlusty all have one way deals. That takes up nine of twelve starting slots. Patrick Dwyer with his two-way would probably pick up the 10th. (edited)
Zac Dalpe, Zach Boychuk, Drayson Bowman, Oskar Osala, Jonathan Matsumoto, and Jerome Samson are the front runners for the other (two) starting spots. Add in the possibilities of Jeff Skinner and Riley Nash and the competition will be will be very tough.
One idea for consideration? Instead of trying to re-sign Carson, why not trade a forward for an established defenseman?
One move that might make sense is to trade Sergei Samsonov to Vancouver for defenseman Kevin Bieksa. After the jump we will look at why this trade could work for both teams.
Carolina could use Bieksa for a number of reasons. He's known as a physical defenseman who initiates contact. He's experienced, aggressive, and he plays with an edge. (Sometimes too much of an edge). The blueliner also has some skill and can chip in on offense.
He's on the block because the Canucks are overloaded with defensemen, including newly acquired Keith Ballard and Dan Hamhuis. The 'Nucks are also up against the Cap, if not over it.
Samsonov could be a decent option for them because, even though he had an off season last year, he has skill they could use. He might look pretty good setting up the Sedin twins and playing in a more open offense. While they have too many defensemen, Vancouver is short on forwards and they need help in that area.
The money situation would work out well for both teams.
Bieksa has a $3.5 million cap hit and is due to earn that much this coming season, the last on his contract.
Samsonov has a $2.5 million cap hit, but is due to be paid $2.8 million. He is also on the final year of his contract.
Vancouver would save a million on their tight cap space, remove an excess body on the blueline, and gain help on offense.
Carolina would solve a need while toughening up the blueline, plus they would keep their out-of-pocket finances about the same. Bieksa's salary is about $700,000 higher than Samsonov's, but the Canes would no longer need to sign Carson, or another defenseman. After all is said and done, the money situation would be about the same.
What do you think? Should both teams pull the trigger?
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Vancouver wants no money coming back if they move Bieksa
They have to resign Mason Raymond their 20 plus goal scoring arbitration eligible Forward and yes they are over the Cap. Now if it were a first rounder that would work for the Canucks
or a top prospect but they want no more money on the cap.
I would definitely say yes. However there are two issue with this. If this trade were to happen, we would have 7 d-men. I would guess that Harrison would be the odd man out. What would we do with him. Can’t throw him into the trade, becuase they won’t want the extra $$$ burden plus having another blueliner defeats the purpose of the trade for them.
I also think the Nucks will want more than just Samsonov. Like what wan8iv said above, they will want either a first rounder or some other draft pick as well with the deal.
I would love to have Bieska, but I just don’t see JR sending that much back for him. Especially if he is somewhat comfortable with the blueline the way it is.
Member of Canes Country and the Cat Scratch Reader
great idea...
but I’m not sure that they’d want his cap hit, even if it’s less than Bieksa’s. Also not sure what would happen with the one-way signed Harrison. Put him on waivers maybe?
Pitkanen-Bieksa
Gleason-Corvo
McBain-Babchuk
Top two pairings look great, but third would have to work on their defensive end play. I do not want either McBain or Babchuk out of the lineup for Harrison.
I agree with your comments. Everyone seems to complain about Harrison, but I think he is a capable in the 3rd pairing.
by FoxtrotSierra on Jul 18, 2010 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Harrison
My guess is Harrison winds up being waived down to Charlotte and shuttles back and forth between Canes and Checkers unless he really was held back in 2009-2010 by injuries.
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Regarding Harrison; the Canes have to carry more than 12 forward, 6 defenseman, and 2 goalies for salary cap reasons. They could waive him and send to Charlotte (still having to pay his full contract) or simply healthy scratch him until needed. He does make the league minimum. Didn’t we carry Michael Ryan pretty much all year because he made the league minimum and we had to have a certain number on the roster?
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by PackPride17 on Jul 18, 2010 11:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed about Harrison. Babchuk and Harrison could rotate based on team need. McBain could even play a weekend down in Charlotte, not that he really needs it, but it’s very possible McBain could hit a wall some time this season.
As for Ryan, I think he was carried on the big league club because he suffered an injury during pre-season and he couldn’t be sent down while on the IR. Someone would need to verify that.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
I have no complaints
and I doubt any Caniac would object to this deal. It opens up a top-9 forward spot and strengthens our blueline with a defensive minded d-man. I hope this is another deal you predict correctly…
Bob,While on paper
This does look really good, but as others here have already stated, and many of us are could be familar with the Nucks GM abilities to wheel & deal, I don’t see this happening…and if it did would he feel comfortable and fit in here ? And it would make Carson & Picard in earnest to get out ther and look even harder…for a spot on a team.And concerning the forwards..I don’t want to be Mo,Ron,Rowe or Rod ( if he has a say) shoes & skates as they will have some very very tough choices to make at training camp to see who actually does make the 23 man roster..and Not necessarily just a trip the “Helsinki” either…this coming season is going a tough for several players trying to get a covented spot…and to keep it ! while this time of the summer maybe a wee bit slow as far as news and etc…but reember there is the “lull” before the storm ya know !!!
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
That Checkers 3rd Sweater ROCKS !!!
Samsonov for Bieksa is a no-brainer for Canes
My guess is that Jim Rutherford is very actively trying to trade Samsonov and Kostopoulos in order to open roster spots for the young forward prospects. What would be interesting is if Vancouver offered Bieksa for LaRose would Jim Rutherford say yes?
Virtually any trade of Samsonov, especially for a defenseman, is a good trade for the Canes. Samsonov is caught in a numbers crunch where his relatively high salary hurts him in comparison to the low salaries of the young forwards.
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Not TKO
Unless you’ve heard something new about Tko (possible cause i’ve been out of town 10 days), i’d be shocked if JR moves a quality checker/ grinder to open a spot for a 2nd or 3rd line scoring-type player! -apples / oranges i think!
I’d be happy if we could move Sammy for Bieksa (or an expanded version of that scenario), but i’ll be a lot surprised if he (JR) can pull that off!
Kostopoulous
I keep seeing Kostopoulos casually thrown into trade conversations as “well, of course we’ll be trading him to open up a roster spot”.
But, hold on just a moment. Let’s think this one through.
Open up a roster spot for just who? Kostopoulos plays the right wing, where there really is no log jam whatsoever, unless you’re trying to shoehorn Drayson Bowman onto the fourth line, which is a total misuse of his talents.
Better to leave him in the incubator and bring him up when the inevitable injury or late-season trade involving Cole occurs. Then we could slot Bowman into whichever of the top three line levels at which we wanted to stress test him.
In the meantime, we’ve got an experienced PK artist who ended last season tied among the forwards with Staal for plus/minus at +4, played all 82 games, and provided an increasingly scarce “toughness” element for our anemic roster.
All for only $0.95M this season and $1.1M next season. Pretty good deal for the performance and role.
Now, maybe at the trade deadline if we’re doomed. But certainly not now. There’s really no need to do so.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
To Randy and Elsker:
Many of the reasons you give for not moving TKO could also have been said for not moving Andrew Alberts. Fact is in a cap system guys who don’t get paid a lot and who do what they are paid for are easy to move. I don’t know that anyone is saying they want to move TKO. However, when you look at it as which players are most easily traded you have to admit that TKO is at or near the top of that list. I like TKO and what he brings to the team, but he may be easier to move than Cole or Samsonov and the team may be more willing to move him than LaRose.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
Except that Andrew Albert’s second year (this coming season) was $1.3M, instead of TK’s $1.1M, and Andrew did not play special teams and did not fight.
Add a suspect defenseman game versus a competent forward game for TK and I’m not sure those two are exactly comparable apples.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
Actually, it’s TK’s ‘11-’12 season that’s under contract for $1.1M. Next season he’s only $0.95M.
So, Andrew’s season for ‘10-’11 costs a team 37 percent more than TK’s season.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
Alberts v. Kostopoulos
In some ways Alberts strikes me as the opposite end of the scale from Kostopoulos. Alberts is a great hitter, but his hockey intelligence seems was under-whelming as far as I was concerned. In other words, Alberts struck me as a one-trick pony; but he did excel at hitting.
On the other hand, Kostopoulos strikes me as a fine utility player. He is an over-achiever who battles hard every shift. He is not a super-star at any one skill, but he makes the most of his ability and never complains or mopes. He kills penalties well; and is fearless in attacking the net. He squeezes every last drop out of the ability he has.
Alberts led the team in +/-. Check out his stats compared to the team here. The guy was the only one to sniff being even at the start of the year when the team was awful. He’s a very servicable third pair guy who is paid like a third pair guy.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
Alberts and Judgment
Did you watch Alberts in the playoffs? He was healthy scratched for taking some truly insane penalties? Did you not see the same kind of poor judgment from Alberts when he was with the Hurricanes?
Did you notice the times Alberts had the puck in the Canes defensive end and the puck walked away from him? I liked Alberts and thought he had potential; and I much, much preferred him to either Aaron Ward or Wallin; but Carson was a far better and steadier defenseman as young as Carson was.
I honestly think this is just your biased eyes, because how else do you explain his plus 7 for us and cumulative plus 6 over both teams last season?
Or his plus 6 the season before that with the Flyers?
He was not a bad defenseman and he would hit, unlike young Mr. Carson.
Just too expensive for this minimum-wage team, that’s all.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
Alberts and Bad Penalties; and a list of articles
Here are some links and salient quotes about Andrew Alberts and his propensity for taking inopportune penalties. Some of the articles were written when Alberts was traded to Philadelphia after being healthy scratched for taking bad penalties. Given the fact I had no clue Alberts would someday become a Hurricanes player, my views didn’t influence the Boston Globe online. Similarly, there is a consistency to the reports on Alberts’ gaps as a player. If one wants to delve deeper into Andrews’ reputation for taking bad penalties, a Google advanced search of Alberts Bad Penalties renders plenty of reading material. You will also note that Maurice is cited as having been frustrated with Alberts’ inopportune penalties.
Finally, if one wants to see further the gaps in Alberts’ play, his first sixteen games as a Hurricane are recommended viewing. Alberts also shows he is a willing hitter and has plenty of skating skills. You will also see the puck float away from his hockey stick as if by magic on some occasions.
Oct. 13 – 8:54 am et
October 13, 2009
Hurricanes coach Paul Maurice is not happy with the number of penalties Carolina has taken so far this season.
Carolina has been charged with a league-high 39 minor penalties in five games this season. Maurice thinks it’s a significant factor in their 2-3-0 start, especially considering how much it’s drained their penalty killing lines. “I am worried about it,” Maurice said. “It really changes the entire complexion of every game we’ve played. But I think where it’s really affected us is our back-to-back nights.” Andrew Alberts and Tom Kostopoulos will probably still be charged with a fair number of penalties, but look for Carolina to play a more disciplined game overall.
Source: Raleigh News & Observer
Andrew Alberts took three minor penalties on Saturday and may have removed himself from the Canucks’ lineup moving forward.
The rugged defenseman’s undisciplined play has seen him rack up 23 minutes in penalties after two games against the Kings in the postseason. Vancouver will be hoping that Aaron Rome is ready to return from an undisclosed injury in time for Game Three on Monday or else they may have to explore other options.
Source: Vancouver Sun
April 18, 2010
April 23, 2010
Game notes
Demitra, demoted to the fourth line early in the series, moved back to the third line after scoring in Game 4. He had a goal and two assists. … D Andrew Alberts, benched after taking five penalties in the first two games, got back in the lineup after Nolan Baumgartner was hurt in Game 4. …
Alberts returning to lineup
4.22.2010 / 6:30 PM ET
VANCOUVER — Andrew Alberts is getting another chance.
The Canucks’ defenseman who was benched after piling up 23 penalty minutes in the first two games of this series will replace the injured Nolan Baumgartner for Game 5 on Friday night.
Baumgartner, who was in the lineup for an injured Aaron Rome, who was in the lineup for an ieffective Alberts, suffered an undisclosed injury during Wednesday’s 6-4 win against the Los Angeles Kings in Game 4 of their series.
Alberts didn’t want to go so far as to say he’s getting a shot at redemption, but he’s getting a Sam Beckett/Quantum Leap chance to put right what once went wrong.
From the Boston Globe online
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3×2myyl
Inside the Alberts deal
Email|Link|Comments (47) Posted by Fluto Shinzawa, Globe Staff October 13, 2008 12:51 PM
When commenting on the trade, Claude Julien mentioned that Alberts was better during camp at rebounding from errors than he had been before.
“There was a time where after he made a few mistakes, that would push him out for the rest of the game,” Julien said. “I thought he’d been doing a great job of bouncing back and finishing strong. That was a positive.”
But the fact that Alberts was still making those mistakes in the first place was one reason why the Bruins shipped out the 27-year-old ex-Boston College star.
“We’d seen Albie play some solid games,” Julien said. “We’d seen other games where he struggled with his confidence.”
Alberts had 74 PIM in 62 games for us last season.
Compare that to 78 PIM in 61 games for Gleason.
Or 72 PIM in 71 games for Pitkanen.
Your contention just does not hold water.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
dd that Alberts is so misunderstood and misjudged when all teams are looking for a big, strong, hitting, stay at home defenseman.
This from the Toronto Sun:
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/steve_simmons/2010/04/25/13711236.html
Scene and heard
Should Sidney Crosby feel like he was dissed? The Pittsburgh Zoo has removed its enormous image of Ben Roethlisberger and replaced it with a large likeness of his boss and landlord, Mario Lemieux … Speaking of Roethlisberger, the Pittsburgh Steelers are scheduled for five games in prime time this coming NFL season. But you know what? Not one of them is in the first six weeks of the season … The good Mike Gillis: Signing Mikael Samuelsson as a free agent in Vancouver; The bad Mike Gillis: The deadline deal for defenceman Andrew Alberts, which makes you wonder about the Canucks pro scouting … Can’t say I buy the business about the Raptors partying too much in a league where everybody parties too much. Overall, the Raptors seem to be more settled than most … Is there a single playoff team Jose Calderon could start for? … If it’s true that David Braley is talking about blacking out Argo games on television, he might as well do the honorable thing and just close down the franchise. The last time there was regular blackouts of any kind, it almost killed football in Southern Ontario … Haven’t heard a single person say: Boy, can’t wait for that Bills-Bears game in November.
I really liked Alberts and thought he had tremendous potential.
That’s your quote Doug. From this thread. So which is it? Liked him and had potential or didn’t?
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
I liked Alberts and he had potential. If I were a GM and had to pick Alberts on the one hand or Carson on the other, it is a no brainer, I pick Carson. For that matter, do you really suggest any sane GM would:
(1) choose to get Brind’Amour rather than Dwyer/Dalpe/Nash?
(2) choose to get Aaron Ward rather than McBain/Sanginetti/Harrison/
(3) choose to get Yelle rather than Dalpe/Nash/Dwyer/
(4) choose to get Cullen rather than Sutter
(5) choose to get Walker rather than Dalpe/Bowman/Tlusty/Boychuk/Osala/Nash
The only player I can envision a GM taking over the young prospects is Whitney and his salary for two years is pretty intense.
In the end, team after team has jettisoned Alberts despite his talent and his size and his potential. You’d have to ask the GMs why they did so. All had the same complaints/criticisms of Alberts; and all concluded they could do better with another player. Maybe you know something the GMs didn’t know. It is highly unusual for a player with such size and potential and who is a major hitter to keep being traded with the comment that “he tends to take bad penalties.” Everybody wants a 6’5" 225 lb defenseman who has some skating skills and who can hit like a freight train. Obviously, his deficits were deemed by the teams that traded him to outweigh his potential. If Alberts were the player you suggest he is, he didn’t get much trade value in return; and he was healthy scratched for two games in the playoffs. That is quite strange for a great defenseman.
Guess that’s why Carson has the one-way contract he does, just like Alberts.
Oh, wait…
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
Perhaps you should write or email Jim Rutherford and tell him you have looked at Alberts and that Alberts is the real deal; and that merely by trading Carson, Jim Rutherford could get Alberts back. While you are at it, you can write Boston’s and Philadelphia’s GMs and tell them your great idea for them to trade to get Alberts back. Then you can write Vancouver’s coach and explain why it was such a mistake for them to healthy scratch Alberts. I feel certain they’d all be grateful for your insights and suggestions.
Carson is on a two way contract; but he is subject to waivers. Jim Rutherford has made clear that he will not put Carson on waivers. Maybe Alberts can join Aaron Ward, Wallin, Yelle, Walker, and Brind’Amour in your fantasty league team. They should dominate.
“Suspect defnsemen game”? The same guy who lead the team in +/- and didn’t play with the team after the trade deadline? Really?
The guy is solid for what he’s paid just like TKO. That’s the comparison I’m making.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
You’re correct. Heck, and I’m a fan of the guy on top of everything else, adding insult to injury.
Just momentarily fell victim to the rat-a-tat-tat of AD’s bad-mouthing of his defensive prowess and didn’t apply independent thought.
My apologies to Mr. Albert.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
Dwyer
Bob,
Would you also consider Dwyer in the battle for a roster spot?
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am I the only one who isn’t a Dwyer fan?
by Clemson Caniac on Jul 18, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Dwyer
I like Dwyer but to me he seems more suited for wing. My take is that Dwyer, Samson, and LaRose will battle it out to see who will stick in 2011-2012.
And the winners will be..............
LaRose & Dwyer
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
That Checkers 3rd Sweater ROCKS !!!
No. It may be as Doug says that he’s better suited at a different position, but for my money he’s just a warm body.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
Dwyer and the Organization
The Hurricanes organization really likes Dwyer. Peter Karmanos, Jason Karmanos, Jim Rutherford, and Paul Maurice have all made a point of complimenting his play. Perhaps they see Dwyer as a young player who is (1) fast, (2) quick, (3) willing to go to the net, (4) inexpensive; (5) good a killing penalties; (6) able to play center and wing; and (7) never takes off a shift.
Maybe they see him as a combination of LaRose and Kostopoulos in terms of skill sets and at a much less expensive salary than LaRose and still less expensive than Kostopoulos’ $900,000 salary. I think Kostopoulos did exactly the Hurricanes signed him to do; and that he did well last season. I agree with the sentiment there ought to be no real rush to trade him; but I also see him as a player who has a low salary and ought to be attractive to other teams as a trade prospect. It all depends how determined the Hurricanes organization is to make roster space for its young forward prospects.
So, if Patrick Dwyer is the heir apparent for the fourth line RW, then perhaps he gets some RW injury duty as they temporarily field-promote Kostopoulos upward to the third line, when one of Ruutu, Cole, or LaRose blows a tire.
If he looks like he can handle that fourth line role at the NHL level, then they look to move TK later in the season. I could see that happening.
I do think it’s likely that TK will move onwards before his contract expires. Just don’t see a need to do that before we’re ready to make a change.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
I don’t see why we’d move TKO, it’s really tough to find that kind of versatility in a player and he doesn’t cost much either.
As I said above, it’s precisely those characteristics that make him easy to move. Not saying I want him moved, but he’s probably easier to move than Cole or Samsonov (who are more likely to be moved at the deadline at all). I also think the org may prefer to move him over LaRose just given the history with LaRose.
TKO is the third oldest player on the team. If JR wants to go young then he, Cole and Samsonov (the two older players) can be moved.
I don’t think moving him will help the team next year, but I also don’t believe that the primary focus of the org is next year. The team is rebuilding, and it may help them more three years from now to have a younger player, call it Osala who has the closest game to TKO, to get that ice time as compared to TKO. And really, given his contract and cap hit, wouldn’t TKO be a better fit on the now less tough Blackhawks than the Canes? Couldn’t that be better for all parties involved?
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
Good points, but I still don’t see how they justify moving him, you’re not going to get a lot back, maybe a late draft pick or prospect at best and moving him doesn’t save that much money 300-400K for someone who’s probably not at as versatile. I agree that he’s probably a pretty easy player to move, I just don’t see why.
The only reason I see to do it is to go younger and commit to the younger players. I don’t think it would be unreasonable to do that. Likely wouldn’t make for the greatest year this year, but could be helpful three years down the line.
That said, I wouldn’t trade TKO if the Canes were able to pick up Bieksa. If you add Bieksa to the blue line you get a really solid group in front of Cam. The back end would do a lot to keep the team in games and could hopefully cover for some of the mistakes younger players would make. If one of the younger kids has a break out season then there is maybe enough offense to get in to the playoffs and enough defense to make them a tough out in the playoffs.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
This is partly why I say do that TK trade later in the season, after you know just what the heck you’re dealing with as an org.
Hot team, or top-5 draft pick team? Capable replacements evident or do the prospects need a bit more seasoning? Officials calling anything at all this year, or not?
Too many variables in motion early in the season to make moves just to open up audition slots. There’s at least two or three forward spots open, as it is, and injuries will open up more.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
I wouldn’t mind waiting and I wouldn’t mind keeping TKO. Waiting to the deadline may actually increase the value of a guy like TKO. I mentioned him going to Chicago, but it may be easier for the Hawks to take him at the deadline and it may bring more back in return.
That said, I still wouldn’t be shocked or terribly unhappy if JR decided to open up yet another spot, especially if Nash and Skinner can make the team. There’s no doubt it would leave the team weaker on the PK, but it would also open up a spot on that unit for one of the younger kids.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
Oh, I’m not even saying necessarily waiting for the deadline, although he’s exactly the kind of defensive depth teams are looking for around then, and his next season contract is cap-friendly.
There will be trade opportunities as early as December when GM’s are in “uh-oh” mode if injuries have taken out a role player for most, if not all, of the season.
We’ll know much more what we’re dealing with by then.
As for opening up a spot, it’s such a specialized spot that I think it may be basically down to between Dwyer and Kostopoulos as to who among them is best to fill that fourth line right wing spot.
I don’t think Skinner or Nash will influence that decision one bit.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
I could see TKO moving out and Cole moving down to the fourth line and the third line being Boychuk, Nash, Dalpe. Cole doesn’t really fill the need on the fourth line, but that opens it up for a younger player if that’s how JR wants to go. That said, looks like Kovy just signed in New Jersey, so maybe the trade market will pick up and we can see what other moves JR is going to make.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
You think he is going to make some more moves this offseason? I think he will wait and see what we have first. I agree with what many have said here that we have a lot of 2nd-3rd line candidates and I wouldn’t be terribly surprised to see one of Boychuk, Bowman, or Tlusty moved due to this during the season or at the trade deadline. We just don’t have room for everybody and their trade value will probably still be pretty high at that point.
Cap-geek has the Canes cap hit at $47.45 million with 19 players on the team. I don’t think it’s any secret that the team would like to move out Samsonov. They could move out Cole as well and still stay above the floor. I don’t expect any more free agent signings (other than Carson and maybe Picard), but I definitely see trades happening. Spaces have to be opened up and I think that’s going to happen before the season rather that once the season starts. It’s become increasingly difficult to make moves during the season with the cap so I don’t think JR will wait unless he’s willing or desirous of carrying someone to the trade deadline.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
I like the idea of adding Bieksa to the Canes, but I have 2 problems with this trade.
First, no way the Canucks would accept Samsonov back in return for Bieksa. The Canucks need to add a little toughness to their bottom 6 or need prospects in return for a player of that caliber.
Second, while it would improve our D corp, it limits the younger defenseman for contibuting. I really want to see McLovin and Spaghetti get a good shot this year and having Pits, Timmy, Babs, Corvo, and Bieksa would limit their roles greatly. If this move were really going to happen, the Canes shouldn’t have resigned Corvo.
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by PackPride17 on Jul 18, 2010 11:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree with both… Another problem I have with this idea is that with our team makeup, a lot of things would have to happen for us to be a serious Playoff team. Our team lacks experience, they will indeed get that NHL experience next year but it will also come with lots of Rookie mistakes and failures. I see things the same as you, I’d rather Sanguinetti and McBain be set up for long-term success even if it means taking a rebuilding year. Next year when Boychuk, Bowman, Osala, Tlusty, McBain, Sanguinetti, and maybe even Nash or Skinner all have a year of NHL experience under their belt we will be better set to make a Cup run. It is then we will need another top-4 D like Bieksa and a top line forward.
My Trade Idea for the Day
It is no secret that Columbus is in the market for an offensive D and there has also been many rumors involving Nikita Filatov. My trade idea:
Joni Pitkanen + Sergei Samsonov
for
Columbus 1st Round Pick in 2011 + Nikita Filatov
We get a potential top-10 pick, a future 1st line Winger, and dump some salary while Columbus gets the offensive D they desperately need for this year and adds a possible 20 goal scorer. A Skinner – Staal – Filatov line would be amazing for the future.
Not keen on this trade proposal. I, unlike you, still believe that Pitkanen could still be resigned. I also don’t think Filatov is that good. He has plenty of potential, but I’m not sure he will ever live up to that potential.
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by PackPride17 on Jul 18, 2010 2:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hopefully he can be resigned… But if he isn’t by the time next season rolls around I wouldn’t hold my breath. I doubt JR will want to lose him for nothing like Whitney.
$$$ Not quite as big a deal...
I think the acquisition of Corvo (instead of a cheaper option), shows us that the “worst-case” paranoia, about not spending any money (this year AND FOREVER) is not nearly the “CERTAINTY” you seemed to worry about! So my bet (and i’d put $ on it) Joni stays here for awhile!
OR Corvo could be a cheap alternative to Pitkanen and that is the organizations plan… Saves them a ton of money next year. My guess is the Canes hope that one of McBain, Babchuk, and Sanguinetti show they can step in for Pitkanen’s slot and Corvo is a veteran backup plan. JR knows he stockpiled offensive D, he said himself we have plenty of guys that can play the PP and put up 30+ points.
I still believe there is a pretty low chance Pitkanen is resigned and if he isn’t by the start of the season I think there is almost zero chance. This is the time of year GM’s come out and say “We want to lock up X player long-term now because they are a UFA or RFA next year”. I haven’t heard a peep from JR in that regard, in fact someone said that JR was quoted saying he isn’t resigning future RFA/UFA’s this offseason.
And $$ is a still a HUGE deal. Corvo took a gigantic hometown discount, he wouldn’t be here if that didn’t happen.
??
..not buying it!! JR’s not an idiot, and Joni is the REAL DEAL!! Show some patience…the summer is young and nothing has to be done for months…
Joni IS the “real deal”. If he wasn’t, there wouldn’t be an issue in keeping him. I’m not suggesting that JR should just give up on him or throw him away for nothing… We aren’t used to having huge name Free Agents on our team, Joni would easily be one of the top (if not THE top) free agent next offseason. He will get offers all across the board from Cup teams and teams with unlimited budgets. Nashville fans really hoped Hamhuis would stay. Phoenix fans really hoped Michalek would stay. It just doesn’t happen that often and the fact that we are a bottom-10 team certainly doesn’t help.
huge name free agents...???
We had Ray Whitney that we could have re-signed. He was up there in all the hockey news sites as being the 2nd best available forward before the playoffs, right after Ilya Kovalchuk. I just hope that Jim Rutherford takes his head out of his ass next summer if Joni is still playing well by then, and makes sure to re-sign one of the better players on the team.
Jim Rutherford is a moron.
by thebl4ckd0g on Jul 19, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Ray Whitney in free agency doesn’t hold a candle to what Pitkanen will be worth. Whitney wasn’t on most pundits top-10 lists for Free Agents this year, the only reason he was ranked that high at the deadline was because we were one of the only sellers.
Pitkanen will be a top-3 Free Agent. He is better than Martin, Volchenkov, Gonchar (age), Michalek, etc. who got snapped up very quickly and probably had 10-20 teams interested in signing them. I’m willing to bet teams would easily be willing to drop $6-7 million on him and Cup contenders will be lining up for him. I think we need to lock him up this offseason, if we can’t then I doubt we will be able to compete with the big spenders and powerhouse teams.
While JR has stockpiled a lot of offensive defenseman, none have shown the same ability of Joni. Joni is a playmaking defenseman that is by far our best passing D-Man. Corvo is offensive, but I don’t see him as a cheaper Joni. He is more of a shooter and his passing ability and decision-making are not on the same level as Joni. McBain seems to be a solid player, but doesn’t necessarily show the playmaking ability of Joni. Babchuk, well he’s Babchuk. And Spaghetti seems to be a solid offensive defenseman, but has not shown much of anything at the NHL level.
Joni is needed and the Canes need to make him priority #2 to resign after Sutter IMO.
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by PackPride17 on Jul 18, 2010 3:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
For what it is worth Sanguinetti is more of a playmaking offensive D. I agree, Joni is a top-10 Offensive D in the whole league. He is much better than any other alternative we have. That is the reason he will be one of the hottest UFA’s next offseason (if he we don’t sign him first), probably have 30 teams interested in him, and demand $5.5-7 million a year. Just like Hamhuis, Gonchar, Michalek, Martin, etc. this year I doubt he will stay with his former team. Would be great if he did, but I’m trying to be realistic.
I think it is realistic to expect Joni as Cane for at least 3 more seasons. I’m not saying its 90%+ that he will return, but I say it is about a 70% chance that he resigns. I’m sure management sees the same thing as me; that Joni controls the Canes offensive and it plays quite differently without him. I also feel that JR has a man-crush on Joni and will go the extra step to get him signed.
If Joni can be resigned for less than $6M, then the Canes are likely to resign him. If he wants over $6M, then I think the Canes will let him go.
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by PackPride17 on Jul 18, 2010 4:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
To JussiJuice
During this summer, some rumor talk about Derick Brassard in Columbus.
The team still searching a offensive D-men but also a guy can play with Nash. And for this, they will be welling to trade Brassard.
So Pitkanen for Brassard???
My Trade Idea for the Day
Canes trade Samsonov to the Islanders for a 6th round pick. The Isles don’t necessarily need Sammy, but they do need some more salary to get to the cap floor. They currently have 21 roster players at about $37M. Sammy would add another $2.8M to their salary cap and is in the last year of his deal. So he would not have any long-term effect on them resigning any of their many young players. He would help them get to the cap floor and would provide some scoring on their 3rd line.
The Canes would get a 6th round pick, but more importantly; this would open up a forward spot to one of the many young prospects while saving in the neighborhood of $2M.
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by PackPride17 on Jul 18, 2010 4:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
7th defenseman?
I don’t think we have to worry about having a 7th defenseman and what happens to Harrison if we pull off such a deal. One of our defensemen is always hurt, sometimes more. I’d like to start the season with 8 or 9 of them.
Anton Babchuk
Right after he was signed someone here said he was still an RFA at the end of his current contract, but everything I see from Capgeek and HB says that he will be a UFA next offseason.
Any clarification on that?
I’ve seen the same RFA references, with the acknowledgment that he would at least then have arbitration rights (finally!).
However, my read on it is that he will be UFA, with the relevant element of the CBA being that to declare UFA status a player has to be at least 27 years of age or have 7 seasons of service (whatever the heck that means).
He will be 27 on May 6, 2011, so I think he’s UFA.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
Hi, bye.
So, let’s say that’s the case. He’s UFA after this season.
If you were JR, wouldn’t you be looking to bundle him with one or more good something-or-others to land a chunk of significant salary back in the form of a top-4 RFA D-man (or whatever)?
I’ll get Tom Rowe to shine him up really well and showcase him on an early-season powerplay unit, before the other team’s PK units start to get second-half serious.
But, I’m off-loading him before I even think about contract extension talks. Right?
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
If he is a UFA and we are sellers at the deadline… I’m guessing he is probably gone. Personally I like Baboom, I wouldn’t mind having him here long term putting up 15-20 goals a year from the blue-line, but if a decent return was had then I could live with it.
If we aren’t a Playoff team come the deadline, I think we are in for an even bigger extravaganza than last year. Cole, Samsonov, Larose, Babchuk, Larose, Kostopoulos, Pitkanen, and Jussi could all be on their way out as rentals if they remain unsigned at that point. All are pretty decent, but the return on Pitkanen and Jussi would be a pretty penny. I think even if we loaned out Jussi, he could easily be brought back in a-la Corvo. Pitkanen I’m not as sure about, but if he is still unsigned come the trade deadline I think he needs to be dealt.
I’d sell my soul to Philly for Claude Giroux. I’d give up Pits right now for him. He is a future superstar, an amazing playmaker, a Right Winger, gives 100% every shift of every game, and the Flyers have pretty much zero Cap space to re-sign him and Jeff Carter next offseason. They already have $45 million committed to only 14 players in 2011-2012 and still have to address their obvious goaltending issue. I think he could be had for the right price come next offseason.
Giroux would be a great acquistion, but I think Philly will keep him over Carter. I would be surprised if Carter wasn’t traded at some point between now and the trade deadline.
I still believe that Pits is extremely valuable to the team performance. I would get rid of Babchuk and Corvo before Pits. I actually think that bringing back Corvo wasn’t a great decision. He is a stop gap need, but if the organization brought him back to get rid of Pits, they made a huge mistake.
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by PackPride17 on Jul 18, 2010 6:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The thing is; it is almost impossible to field a complete team for multiple years in the “salary cap” NHL. Look at the better teams in the NHL this past season. Chicago had talent and depth at almost every position. But goaltending was an area of weakness. And because of youth, they ending up having to trade 1/4 of their Cup team. Philly had a lot of talent in top of their forward and defensive ranks. They were weak in goal and lite on the 4th line and 3rd pairing. They didn’t have a lot of depth. Washington has a lot of goal scorers, but were weak in goal and in terms of defensive defenseman. Pittsburgh had strength in many areas, but top 6 wingers were limited.
Every good team is strong in a couple of aspects, but lacks in one area. The salary cap prevents having a complete team like the Red Wings of early 2000.
The Canes need to identify the core or key players and hope they can carry the team. This is why I don’t believe you can “roll 4 lines” and be successful. If you can “roll 4 lines,” then your upper lines are not as strong because you are dedicating too much money to the lower lines. This whole thing becomes even more difficult with a limited budget.
This is also why I believe the Canes need Joni. Fill the top 4 defenseman with quality players and let the 3rd pairing be young, cheap, up & coming defenseman or cheap veterans. Same thing with the forward ranks. Stop trying to fill holes with players that are obviously not right in upper level roles.
On defense, keep Joni and Gleason, build around those guys until they get into their early 30s and start again with the younger players that have gained experience like McBain, Sanguietti, and Carson. You can use the Babchuk’s and Corvo’s to fill gaps, but keep your top players and select a few “kids” to bring up.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 18, 2010 8:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Impossible. Bieksa is a great defenseman and Samsonov is overpaid and belongs in the minors.
by Houston for Canes on Jul 19, 2010 11:51 AM EDT reply actions
Ahem.
Someone mentioned Kostopoulos?
Vancouver’s looking for depth at forward – there’s no room at the top just yet. Size on the wings with a reasonable defencive sensibility and a bit of offensive pop would do.
Oh, and a pick or two. That would suit our purposes very nicely, thanks!
Agree with most here
Any move w/ Segeri involved for d-man or basically anything at this point to provide depth is a huge win for the Canes. Segeri needs to be moved to free up cash and not block Boychuk, Samson, and more importantly newly signed R. Nash and of course 1st round draft pick Riley Skinner. Both Skinner and Nash need to be on this starting squad out of camp as well as Boychuk. We need to move Sergei now and the move for Bieska is good one. I would prefer to keep both Kostopoulos and LaRose for our 3rd and 4th lines b/c will out them we lose to much experience and leadership that this team will need especially with the lose of Whitney, Cullen (last year’s trade deadline), and more than likely Segeri and not to mention Brindy #17 retired.
Like the above trade but not if Kostopoulos or LaRose is involved, and Harrison if we lose him and able to resign Carson should Harrison be claimed on waivers then I consider that a win. Carson played pretty well last year surprised he was not picked up again by the Canes this summer.
Go Canes
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jul 19, 2010 8:51 PM EDT reply actions
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