Riley Nash Signs Pro Contract, Leaves Cornell
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT
158 comments
By all accounts, the Edmonton Oilers wanted to sign 2007 first-round pick Riley Nash, but that meant the 21-year-old center would have to leave Cornell University. Frustrated at their inability to sign him, the Oilers traded Nash to Carolina for the 46th pick in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft.
Less than a month after he was acquired and just a week removed from attending Carolina's prospect conditioning camp, Nash has decided to leave college behind, signing his three-year entry level deal and turning pro. According to the Hurricanes, Nash will be given the opportunity to compete for a roster spot this fall with Carolina.
The deal pays Nash $550,000 if he makes the NHL this year, followed by $600,000 and $700,000 the final two seasons of the contract. He also received a $262,500 signing bonus. He will earn $65,000 at the AHL level all three seasons.
The release from the team is after the jump.
CANES SIGN RILEY NASH TO ENTRY-LEVEL CONTRACT
Center averaged a point per game during college career at Cornell
RALEIGH, NC – Jason Karmanos, Vice President and Assistant General Manager of the National Hockey League’s Carolina Hurricanes, today announced that the team has signed center Riley Nash to a three-year, entry-level contract. At the NHL level, the deal will pay Nash $550,000 in 2010-11, $600,000 in 2011-12, and $700,000 in 2012-13. He will be paid $65,000 on the AHL level in all three seasons, and receives a signing bonus of $262,500.
"Riley has excellent playmaking ability from the center position, and was a consistent point-producer at Cornell," said Karmanos. "He'll have an opportunity during training camp to earn a spot on our NHL roster."
Nash, 21, completed his third season at Cornell University in 2009-10, scoring 12 goals and earning 23 assists (35 points) in 30 games. The Consort, Alb., native led Cornell in assists, and ranked tied for second on the team in scoring. In three seasons with the Big Red, Nash (6’1", 191 lbs.) has scored 37 goals and earned 65 assists (102 points) in 102 collegiate games. Originally selected by Edmonton in the first round, 21st overall, in the 2007 NHL Entry Draft, Carolina acquired Nash on June 26, in exchange for Ottawa’s second-round pick, 46th overall, in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft.
0 recs |
158 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
A lot, yes,
but you don’t get Ivy Leaguers cheap.
I think Zac Dalpe still has his hands on that spot. Better college numbers in a harder conference and already proven at the AHL level.
I dunno … I’d call it neck and neck. They probably have bigger expectations for Dalpe, and if that’s the case he might be better served playing big minutes in Charlotte.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 19, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far.
Hasn’t played a minute yet as a pro.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The Oilers can’t be too happy, but at least they got a 2nd rounder for him.
Editing Manager of CanesCountry.com
Much better than it could have been:
The pick is higher and earlier than the comp pick for not signing him would have been.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Not only a slightly better pick (46th over 51st), but probably more compelling to them was getting an asset in the 2010 draft instead of the 2011 draft in which their compensatory pick would have been awarded.
Not only gets them a tangible asset a year sooner, but a mid-second rounder is more valuable in a deep draft like 2010’s than next year’s possible thinner pool of talent.
Good deal for everyone.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
That's what I meant by earlier.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Good news! From some of the interviews during the Conditioning Camp it sounded like Nash was starting to change his mind about college and playing in the AHL. Here’s to him having a great professional career!
"The increase in pain is way beyond what you would expect a person to play with," said coach Paul Maurice. "Unfortunately it’s even beyond what Tim Gleason can play with, because he can play with just about anything."
Awesome. Great deal for the ’Canes.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 19, 2010 1:51 PM EDT reply actions
So are you bummed about Kovy?
Twitter @HMof2
by hockeymomof2 on Jul 19, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I was for a minute, but then when I remembered what happened to Chicago this season I smiled :) I don’t look at it like the Kings losing Kovy, I look at it as the Kings being able to keep Doughty and Simmonds. Would you rather have Kovy or Doughty on your team?
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 19, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
To be clear...
What happened to Chicago’s cap-situation, not winning the Cup.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 19, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Kings
They’ve still got a pretty solid top line without Kovy, but they don’t have as much depth, as Smyth would’ve likely been moved to the second line. I’d much rather have Doughty (and Simmonds) than Kovy.
Amen.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 19, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I just quickly added in the signings in the last week. Those four blanks in the roster are filled, and the Canes have 42 players under contract, only 15 on one way contracts. Gonna be a helluva Training camp.
To give 13 F and 7 D at both the NHL and AHL level, they’ll need one more F and one more D. Is JR holding those spots open for Skinner and Carson?
Twitter @HMof2
I think Skinner’s chances of getting a contract are diminished with Nash’s signing. Not only is there the rational thought of giving him another year to mature before turning pro, but the team also pushes his free agent status another year into the future.
I’m baffled about Carson. With Corvo signed there doesn’t seem to be room for him with the Canes, and I can’t imagine him being content to play in Charlotte next season.
Despite all that, as a fan I would love to see those two get signed. Tremendous depth is never a bad thing.
I doubt Skinner gets a deal.
Probably up for the early-season trial, but there’s really no need to burn a year of team control unless he shows himself to be a borderline top-six player.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly think that’s exactly where the org is right now. They know the odds and have the big picture in mind, but you just never know.
So, they’ve very realistically and prudently left a slot open for magic to happen and for Skinner to just make his undisputed case that he belongs in the NHL right now, with nothing to gain by another year in juniors. It’s genuine to Skinner and allows good things to happen for the org.
But, I’m with you. We’re not nearly so desperate as the seasons in which we’ve probably dragged players up too soon. Kid’s got a good team and a good role to which to return. Chance for World Junior experience, too.
I say, show him as much of the big show as you want or think he needs to see, whether that ends in preseason or somewhere on the road, but send him back and get ready for him to hit with an impact in the fully-activated ‘11-’12 version of the New Canes.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
good news and smart decision
This is great opportunity for Nash to not only make the team, but be given a chance to have a top 9 role on the team. Also he’ll get to work with Brindy and Ronnie Francis. Pretty good set of mentors for a young guy to learn from. I agree with Jussijucie on Dalpe ending up at wing. I haven’t seen much of his play but from what I have read he has more of a shoot first mentality. Nash has play making ability. Had Nash gone the UFA route next summer he quite possibly would not have found a situation as favorable as the one he just signed on for. Exciting future for this team!
And Francis has been in his ear (or at least his presence) for several years.
Did a lot of scouting for Justin Kruger up at Cornell.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently Gagne to Tampa
The Southeast gets stronger…
Gagne – Lecavalier – Downie
Malone – Stamkos – St. Louis
Ridiculous top-6.
We call that the Yzerman-effect.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 19, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Their coach and GM HAVE to do a better job than Larry Brown did.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
only place i see it is on hockeyfraud, err ummm hockeybuzz.com you got it anywhere better? Not to doubt you, just curious.
Their top 2 lines are about as good as anyone’s, if they can get goaltending and fill their bottom six (which shouldn’t be hard given the number UFA’s available) they can be as good as anyone in the EC. Great deal. Good news about Nash too.
They’ve already got their goaltender in Ellis. Could be a shrewd move or their achilles heel.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 19, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Between him and Mike Smith, they've got plenty of potential.
Both have shown the ability to be good NHLers.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
If they’re healthy, I guess. Malone is always hurt, and Gagne’s hurt more and more each year. St. Louis’ not getting any younger either. I’m not denying the talent there, but 08-09 Lightning did similar stuff (Recchi, Vrbata, Malone) and just totally flamed out.
by Cory Lavalette on Jul 19, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Im with ya Cory, Im just not all that worried about Tampa. Im especially not concerned with Atlanta, and I think Florida had a good draft, but still not really a threat this coming season.
Well Atlanta have now a good defense with Bogosian, Oduya (NJ for Kovy), Hainsey and Ernstrom… And on the offense, little, Bersgors(NJ for Kovy) Peverly, Kane, Ladd and Byfuglien will give some good help. Burmistrov (draft 2010) and Cormier (NJ for Kovy) could be on the team too.
I think they will give some good opposition but at least, they will be out of the series.
Eager, Little, MacArthur, Schubert, Esposito, Pavelec, etc. They have a decent collection of players and with right guidance could very dangerous. Florida looks like the worst team in the SE. On paper I’d put us in 3rd behind Tampa.
Can Someone Explain This To Me?
I understand Gagne going to Tampa. It gives them a scary top 6 and they still have $16M to get another 5 or 6 players. Their a little weak on defense, but they improved their goalie situation with Ellis.
What I don’t get is what Philly took back. Matt Walker and a 4th? I know they got cap relief, but why get Walker? Is the NHL going to 4 defensive pairings in a game? And don’t the Flyers play their top 4 defenseman A LOT anyway. They now have 8 defenseman on 1 way deals and 7 of those guys make $1.3M or over. It you look at salary only, their 3rd pairing of Coburn and Walker have a $4.9M cap hit. And that has their 7th defenseman making $1.3M. I really just don’t understand why Philly is loading up on defense, when they should just go find a good goalie.
Why don’t we trade them Babchuk and a 2nd for Carter? We could use another scorer and they seem to love defenseman.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 19, 2010 7:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I rather see them try and get Cobourn. Pronger, Timmonen, Carle, Cobourn, and Meszaros are all Top 4 guys. Someone has to go.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 19, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Does Philly have any arbitration eligible players? They could potentially buy out Walker.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
They could, but I’m not sure they’d want to go that route. If they do that, they’re still stuck with 5 guys that are top 4 players, arguably top pair players. Just with those top 5 D-men they have $22mm committed. Plus, none of those guys is a shutdown guy, they’re all “all around” or offensive minded guys. I think they’ll try to move one of those 5 guys, maybe not till the season starts, but I can’t see them hanging on to all of them.
In addition, if they bought out Walker then they essentially gave Gagne away for a 4th rounder. That looks terrible on them. I mean if we can trade Andrew Alberts for a 2nd, they could have at least got that for Gagne.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 20, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough. My thought was that if clearing cap space is the top priority, then moving Gagne’s cap and getting a pick and only have to take on Walker’s buyout cap hit of 600K or so isn’t too bad. (Note: I’m doing a quick calc of Walker’s buyout cap hit based on his cap hit of 1.7. Check capgeek if anyone wants to be more precise). It’s not too different from the Ward for Eaves and a fourth trade, but Ward and Gagne are in different realms when it comes to to talent.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
you know, I really think next year is gonna be a flog. The SE is looking better and better, and I feel like we are spinning our wheels. I mean we are all getting excited about the signing of a kid who has yet to play a pro game. The last big hurrah moment of our off season was yet another recycle. The Sanguinetti hype, a healthy scratch on the NYR blueline? I don’t wanna be another debbie downer, but I aint putting my heart out there like I did last year, that’s all I’m sayin.
Agreed except on Sanguinetti. Give him a chance, he will prove to be a top-4 guy similar to what McBain has shown. I’m just hoping we don’t bring Skinner up too early and ruin him trying to rush things. I vote for a rebuilding year, the fall for Sean Couturier.
+3
i agree with ya Jussi…
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
That Checkers 3rd Sweater ROCKS !!!
by CaniacSteve on Jul 19, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Follow-up article on Riley Nash from Paul Branecky:
TTS: Nash Relishes the Challenge
"Anytime you give up a year of your education and leave some good friends behind, it’s going to be tough," he said. "I’m so close (to earning a college degree), but I’ve been dreaming of the NHL my whole life. Either way, I’d have to sacrifice something to get the other."
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
Nash
Check the Canes ‘depth chart’…Nash is 3rd line center
Earlier this morning, it was Zac Dalpe in that third line center slot, followed by Dwyer in the fourth line center position.
I know this, because I always have that as one of my tabs and hadn’t refreshed it from the morning boot-up until now.
Just one man’s opinion on that chart, I know, but it’s still insight into the org’s mindset on where the talent might slot.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
Boychuk/Nash/Cole
I agree that Paul Branecky has excellent insights into the organization’s thinking. A Boychuk/Nash/Cole line will be fast and will have an abundance of net presence. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Boychuk/Nash/Dalpe or Boychuk/Nash/Osala at some point in the 2010-2011 season.
I continue to think Dalpe will be moved to wing and that he will do quite well at wing for the Canes.
Boychuk/Nash/Skinner
I also expect to see some games in which the third line is Boychuk/Nash/Skinner.
Skinner
My rational mind says they will give him the maximum number of NHL games before this year counts (which I think is 8 games); but what my instinct tells me is that the organization thinks Skinner is that kind of unique 18 year old who can put in some significant minutes in his rookie year. There are many, many good arguments for letting Skinner spend the 2010-2011 season back with Kitchner. If I had to guess, I would guess Skinner wants to play so badly in the NHL that he sticks with the Canes.
Dalpe will be a top 6 winger by the beginning of 2011, if not sooner. I’ve been saying for a while that he will take over for Boychuk as the top winger prospect. Now with Skinner in the mix, those 2 will probably share that title. But then things come back to who is going to be moved eventually? Tlusty, Bowman, or Boychuk? I think a good young, physical line would be Bowman-Nash-Osala. That would probably indicate that Boychuk would be moved and given his high regard, he would probably bring back the most in a trade.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 19, 2010 9:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh my god....
…..why did you make go look at the lines? This season is going to hurt!
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
You should take pleasure in the fact you had the foresight to see impending hockey disasters while others of us naively believed it was a good thing to have an infusion of young talent. You can point out the errors of our ways.
yes, it’s good to have an infusion of young talent. yes, it’s a young man’s game. Yes, a flogging is coming. No other NHL teams will be filling nearly half of its 20-man roster — 9 players — with guys who have what amounts to 2 years or less NHL experience.
It will be fun to watch these young guys. But some will not live up to all this Pollyannaish hype, and will be shipped off in the same way that NYR shipped their young D-man this way.
Why do people take offense when I state that I think the team is going to awful this year? Aren’t most teams terrible during “Rebuilding” years. With these many kids coming in to play this season, I figured it was a foregone conclusion. Yes, it’s good to have good young talent, but most teams will slowly integrate them into the system, not flood the roster with them all at once. I have never implied that the people who have a brighter outlook on the season were naive. That would be like saying christians are naive to believe in god. It’s all a question of faith. Blind faith is what most of the optimists here on the boards have. This isn’t a bad thing, it just is what it is, Believing in something without any proof of what the outcome will be. I tend to be more scientific in my approach, and look at similar situations from other teams in other seasons and compare it to our current situation to formulate my opinion. Having said that, it is my opinion. It isn’t right, it isn’t wrong. Nor is yours. As far as pointing out the errors of other’s ways, not my style. I’ve never been an " I told you so" kinda guy. I don’t care whose right or wrong, because at some point, everyone will be wrong, including myself.
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
by wilmnoca on Jul 20, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Proof of the Future is not Possible
The fallacy in your logic is in the suggestion there is a way to accurately the predict the future with regard to a sports team. To that extent, blogs are more like a MMPI test — a Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory or a Rorschach inkblot test. The predicted outcome of future events tends to track the personalities of the author as much as anything else.
To assume that only people who haven’t engaged in detailed factual analysis could conclude the Hurricanes are an improved team is in itself without foundation. I would suggest, respectfully, that one would give little weight to a book reviewer who said, I read half the chapters of a book and it was terrible. With the Hurricanes, the more one watches videos and the more objective the viewer is, the greater the possibility that the predictions of future performance will be accurate. There is still no guarantee. It all has to do with how much information does a particular person feels he or she needs to make an informed decision.
Never said proof of the future was possible.
Proof of outcome IS possible though. Either way, I don’t care. Our thoughts differ on the outcome of this season. No argument I make will sway your opinion, thus it is frivolous to try to and not worth my time. One of us will be right, one of us will be wrong, and the world will keep turning either way.
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
And what, precisely...
gives you the right to determine what is or is not the proper criteria (or set thereof) for ascertaining an accurate prediction of future performance?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd.
Great post.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 25, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Just like teams shipped off Ruutu, Pitkanen, Jokinen, Gleason, and Corvo.
If that is a sign of failure, I would take those castoffs every chance I could.
sent via Iphone
Amen AD Amen !!!
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
That Checkers 3rd Sweater ROCKS !!!
by CaniacSteve on Jul 19, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
For every name you can come up with that worked out well for us in a trade, I can guarantee you I can come up with multiples that did not.
Also, for every one of those trades you’re citing, something left us that we thought we could live without.
They won’t all work out, AD. They just won’t.
Nor do they need to do so. Fortunately, we have more than we need.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
I’m personally disappointed we couldn’t nail him down for an additional 16-20 years, as is all the rage these days.
Unfortunately AD, not every highly regarded prospect is going to flourish like you so wish and seemingly are sure of. Look at the Blackhawks, Penguins, etc. They all have some very recognizable home grown talent, but if you dig deeper there are a significant amount of players that were highly regarded that did not work out.
I am in complete agreement with you that it is my hope and utmost feeling that all of these young players will be given a fair shot to play in the NHL and have the skill to make it. However, I think a lot of us are far more realistic with our expectations. The odds are against anyone trying to make it in pro sports, let alone players drafted in later rounds. I think many of these players can be serviceable and more than a bunch be solid NHL players.
In terms of the players you list, I wouldn’t say Gleason was poorly regarded. We gave up Jack Johnson, they had to give something up of significant talent. Eric Belanger was not it. Ruutu was injury plagued and continues to be that, although he is putting up more points than he was in Chi-Town. Corvo, continues to put up points in his career average range, it just seems to me that we have accepted him as he is, instead of expecting him to be a top-10 point producing defenseman as Ottawa fans did. Pitkanen I think is in the same regard as Corvo, but more was expected as it should have been with being such a high draft pick.
I just think there comes a time when every franchise must evaluate when they feel a player has reached their maximum potential within their organization or whether they can be used to obtain more significant pieces to aid the franchise. You could argue that we gave away “failures” early as well, J.S. Giguere, Pronger (solid player when in Hartford, but not solid enough apparently), etc.
What i see
Thus far is a Canes team that has even more options and possibilities than the Team did this time last year..while many of us had alot of hope with the return of several players…it went over like a lead ballon…but and with the canes going younger faster 7 quicker…we caniacs do have alot more to look forward to than last season …again at this time last year…good night all…Be Safe!!
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
That Checkers 3rd Sweater ROCKS !!!
And furthermore...
If we finish 2010-11 with the same record and miss the playoffs again it will be a better year because we will not have had to watch tired old veterans who should have made the playoffs, but young, fast, and hungry players who are building a foundation for the future. No matter which of the young players crack the opening night roster, this team will be faster and more skilled which makes this season highly anticipated in my book. And the real beauty is that when you look at that opening night roster this year, realize that NEXT years opening night roster will have even more young, fast, skilled players!
As far as how badly some will think the team does this year, we still have a mostly veteran team, just not quite as old as last year. If those vets produce as they are capable then the team will contend for a playoff berth. If some players get hurt or don’t produce then there is bus from Charlotte with players who can step in and at least excite us with their desire. Either we will be excited about a playoff team or be excited about the future. This season will no suck !!!
Hockey News Picked Hurricanes to Make the Playoffs
Apparently Cory persuaded the Hockey News. The Hockey News is picking the Hurricanes to make the playoffs.
Thanks for the link, good read.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 20, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Second place you’ve made this claim:
The Hockey News Picks Canes to Make Playoffs
So a correction is also in order in aisle two this thread, as well.
One columnist for THN has us at seventh.
As for the rest of those at THN:
When THN staffers sat down to discuss, debate and argue our standings predictions for the Yearbook there were dissenting opinions surrounding the Canes. Personally, I had them ranked seventh, a couple others had them nibbling on the post-season door, while still others were ready to write them off completely.
Close, but no kewpie doll.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
The Hockey News has never been a Hurricanes fan. The fact that one hockey commentator has picked the Hurricanes to make the playoffs was what I found significant. Of course, he might well have done the research to see that the Hurricanes team had addition by subtraction at work. Almost without fail, the players who were lost, were replaced by players with more skill and more desire:
1. Aaron Ward: gone; replaced by Corvo – definitely an improvement;
2. Wallin, gone; replaced by McBain – definitely an improvement;
3. Alberts, gone; replaced by Babchuk – definitely an improvement;
4. Yelle, gone; replaced by Nash/Dwyer/Dalpe – definitely an improvement;
5. Walker; gone, replaced by Tlusty- definitely an improvement;
6. Cullen; gone, replaced by Sutter — I would argue an improvement; and certainly no worse;
7. Whitney; gone; replaced by Boychuk/Bowman/Daple/LaRose – this spot remains to be seen
8. Brind’Amour, gone; replaced by Boychuk/Bowman/Dalpe/LaRose/Nash — definitely an improvement
The nay-sayers seem to believe a hockey team gets worse by jettisoning poor players and replacing them with better players. I suspect that as more commentators look at the details of the Hurricanes team, they will have a positive view of the Hurricanes’ chances in making the playoffs. I was pleased to see that the commentator for the Hockey News concluded the Hurricanes would make the playoffs.
It’s impossible to flawlessly predict all of next season’s surprises and only with a dash of luck will your boldest of bold come to fruition. However, I believe as far as "bold" picks go, the Carolina Hurricanes might be the safest route to take.
Doug, even this guy is saying it’s a bold pick to take them at #7. He’s saying taking the Canes to make the playoffs is the safest of the crazy picks. Essentially he’s betting that Cam Ward alone will get them in.
Also, you’re replacements aren’t correct. Corvo isn’t replacing Ward. Corvo is returning. Harrison is replacing Ward. Cullen isn’t being replaced by Sutter. Nash is replacing Cullen. That might be an upgrade in a year or two, but likely isn’t this year. LaRose isn’t replacing Whitney, he was already on the team. For someone who was so behind Whitney it’s a little curious that you’re saying Bowman, Boychuk or Dalpe will out play him and his stats from last year (21-37-58). McBain has more upside than Wallin, but being young he’s likely to make mistakes. Calling it a definite improvement at this point is premature. Tlusty may be a better scoring option than Walker was last year, but he doesn’t bring the grit or the leadership he did.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
by C-Leaguer on Jul 21, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I really disagree with your assessment. The idea was to compare who we lost and who is going to take those minutes. It’s an inexact science because we don’t know what the lines will be. For me, it is totally obvious, for example, that having Nash or Dalpe is an improvement over Yelle.
Aaron Ward’s replacement whoever it is will be an improvement.
Alberts with Carson or even Harrison is an improvement in my view.
Walker’s replacement is an improvement given Walker’s injuries and the effects of aging. Walker had a hard time showing grit from the injured reserve.
Whitney is the hardest to replace, so call it even or a slight downgrade. Whitney was great. He did slump after the trade deadline, and even a Whitney fan such as myself has to acknowledge that fact. I think Whitney would have added at least 20 goals this season.
Sutter outscored Cullen and was better at the inside game. Obviously, Cullen had more experience under his belt, but Sutter is an upgrade to Cullen and had beat out Cullen for second line center.
Brind’Amour being replaced is a definite upgrade and it seems infeasible to argue otherwise.
In summary, given the upgrades to the team, it is totally illogical to suggest the Hurricanes in 2010-2011 are a less talented, less playoff ready team than the team of 2009-2011. For example, we know how Carson played in 2009-2010. He is not going to be a worse player just because the calendar changed. Yelle was already replaced and Dwyer was an improvement over Yelle. Similarly, the McBain/Carson combination was a more talented set of defensemen than Aaron Ward and Wallin. I’d take Babchuk over Alberts any day.
My understanding is that the way an NHL team improves is that it unloads its weaker players and replaces them with better players. The Hurricanes accomplished that in unloading their weaker players. The Hurricanes were luck to have Sutter to replace Cullen. With Whitney it will be up to the young forwards and forwards such as LaRose to take on the scoring gap left by Whitney’s absence.
Sutter outscored Cullen and was better at the inside game.
Sutter: 40 points
Cullen: 48 points
Am unaware of the quantifiable that supports “better at the inside game”…or even what that is.
In summary, given the upgrades to the team, it is totally illogical to suggest the Hurricanes in 2010-2011 are a less talented, less playoff ready team than the team of 2009-2011.
“Totally”? Really? Maybe to you, but not to others.
“Playoff ready” implies some experience in having actually been there, for one thing.
Maybe this is the year those that are new to the scene get some of that experience…maybe not.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
Compare the 21 goals that Sutter scored and the 12 goals that Cullen scored and where Sutter was when he scored and where Cullen was when he scored. So if you were GM you would trade away Sutter to get Cullen; you’d trade away Dwyer/Dalpe/Nash/ to get Brind’Amour; you’d trade away Carson to get Wallin; you’d trade away McBain to get Aaron Ward; you’d trade away Bowman/Dalpe/Boychuk/Skinner to get Whitney; you’d trade away Sanguinetti/Carson/McBain/Harrison/Baqbchuk to get Alberts; you’d trade away Nash/Dalpe/Bowman/Dwyer to get Yelle.
I wonder if you can find one GM or hockey commentator to endorse that idea as a grand plan. I suspect you’d get the reaction: “you’ve got to be kidding me.”
Nobody is saying that, AD, so don’t know why you would try to manufacture that they are. Doesn’t help your cause one bit.
Of course we’re in a period of raw talent upgrade and swinging from one vine to another. It’s a good thing.
But, the analysis performed by PackPride17 and by C-Leaguer of where we are as a snapshot in time is dead-on, in my opinion, which is why I “recommended” their posts.
Of course we all get you disagree. But, you’re not swaying anyone with your points. At least not me.
Nice attempt at swinging the focus from points to goals, by the way, but the point comparison between Sutter and Cullen is valid. It’s why we equate goals and assists as being equally valuable.
We’ve talked about Sutter needing to up his assists before. Then, and only then, will he be reaching Cullen-replacement level.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
by Elsker on Jul 21, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, I disagree that the player by player analysis is anything other than the most logical way to determine if the team as a whole has improved, gotten worse, or stayed even. I can’t imagine how anybody could seriously suggest otherwise; and therefore, I can’t imagine why the Hurricanes suddenly became a worse team by jettisoning older, slow, underachieving players, and replacing them with high end talent.
The deflection of the question and analysis comes from having to defend the indefensible: that is this odd argument that the players who left were better than the players who replaced them. To the contrary, the players who left other than Whitney were replaced by better players; and only Cullen is close to being an even-up replacement. As to Sutter, I wonder how anybody could suggest a sane GM would trade Sutter to get Cullen. If that trade proposal would be viewed as pure nonsense, then it answers the question of which player as between Cullen and Sutter is deemed more valuable to a team.
It is the one on one comparison of players gone and their replacements that demonstrates the lack of substance to any contention that the 2010-2011 Hurricanes are a less competitive, less talented team than the 2009-2010 Hurricanes. What is hard to fathom is why anybody would propose a general premise such as the demise of the Hurricanes in 2010-2011, when the premise is so lacking in factual support.
AD, not trying to piss you off or anything, but the reason some believe the Canes got worse is because of the unknown. We generally knew what we were getting from the older guys and now we are replacing them with “high end talent” (your words). But high end talent doesn’t necessarily translate into high end players.
We all knew Rod needed to retire and we realize that Sutter is/should be a better center than Cullen, but currently; who is our important faceoff man? I believe our best faceoff guy is our top line winger right now. We could generally count on Rod to win a faceoff, now we don’t have that luxury.
If Whitney is to be replaced by Boychuk; are we expecting Boychuk to have the same on-ice factor as Whit? Maybe in a few years, but probably not this upcoming season. And while the 3rd and 4th lines should be more talented, the top 6 generally plays about 2/3rd of the game. That’s an area where you have to admit we probably haven’t improved.
Some of the kids will get there, but a lot of this season will be trial by fire. Some of these prospects are not going to succeed and finding the right line chemistry will take some time. You’re right that there is no factual support for a failing team in 10/11, but there is really no factual support for a succeeding team either. There are just too many variables.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 21, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The point is simply inarguable to me. The knowns who were replaced were underachieving, with the exception of Whitney. A team doesn’t deteriorate as a result of replacing bad players with good players. In the top 6 this year versus last year, the only spot that is not clear is Whitney’s replacement.
It is important to recall that when the Hurricanes were playing there best after the trade deadline, Whitney was in one of the worst slumps of his career. Whitney is a first rate person and player; but the Hurricanes proved they could win even without him being at his best. The differential at worst between Whitney and prospects like Boychuk, Dalpe, Bowman, Skinner, and Nash is not night and day. Perhaps Boychuk scores 18 goals rather than Whitney’s 21 goals from last season. That differential is statistically insignificant.
The factual support for the team being improved includes the fact that the core team is returning and at present is healthy. The slow, old, poorly performing veterans who dragged down the team in 2009-2010 won’t be on the roster in 2010-2011. Other than Whitney there is not one player who a sane GM would take over their replacement. The team is faster, more skilled, and more physical than the Hurricanes at the start of 2009-2010.
It strains credulity to say the team mysteriously will be worse when the young players were better in 2009-2010 during their time at Carolina than the players they replaced, despite their lack of NHL experience. The idea the prospects will be worse in 2010-2011 than they were in 2009-2010 is difficult to comprehend.
We will see what the future holds; but I really can’t imagine somebody making the argument being presented of a worse team with a straight face. Not all the young kids will immediately get on the cover of hockey magazines; but there is sufficient depth that the over all result will be quite good.
AD, I’m sorry but you are way off base. And to question my credibility when you are backing players with little to no NHL experience is ridiculous. We know how you feel, but that is not factual information. We are getting younger, faster, and more skilled; but you almost completely ignore experience. That is a mistake. There is a reason young teams usually don’t succeed and that is because a lack of experience. Older players know the tricks of the trade that younger players don’t know and other teams can exploit.
I’m not saying the Canes will fail miserable, but it is an unknown at this juncture. If you believe otherwise, that is fine; but you shouldn’t tell everybody else there wrong. We have only 1 “center” that has over 150 NHL games (that less than 2 full seasons) of experience and that is a very critical position. While my projected RW are experienced with Jussi, Ruutu, Cole, and Kostopoulos; our LW is very inexperienced with LaRose & Samsonov as the only players with over 50 games. And LaRose is a career 3rd/4th liner and we would trade Samsonov for a bag of pucks. So 2 of the 3 forward positions have little to no “field experience” and your certain we will be better.
In regards to last season’s run; the kids did show something, but be honest. From the beginning of 2010, the team was carried by Staal, Jussi, Whitney, and Joni; not the kids. The only kids that really produced significantly IMO were Carson, McBain, and Peters. Bowman and Boychuk played well, but did not show they would be 20 goal scorers this upcoming season. Could it happen, yes, but your main basis is on their AHL competition.
I’m really not trying to be down on the kids, because I’m not, but we see things different ways. Some are going to have good years, some will not. Just take a step back, think logically about rookie performances in the NHL before you say we are completely off-base in a questionable outcome of the 10/11 season.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 21, 2010 9:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Kazaam!
Like I said before, I’m excited to see the development of these kids over the span of a season. It’s going to be awesome, but it ain’t going to pretty. Logic dictates that these kids will have growing pains. I think it’s a bit unrealistic to think they’re going to in the playoffs come next April. I could be wrong, and hope I am, but when it comes to rational thought, I usually excel. AD, to be quite honest, I don’t see any logic in your argument. Experience is key in the NHL, and we don’t have it quite yet. History shows that “rookie” players don’t produce very good numbers, although as with anything, there are exceptions. Replace almost half your team with “rookie” players, you’re going to lose on ice production. A+B=C………Pythagorean theorem…..right? That’s really all I remember from algebra and Shaq is the only reason I remember it……….sad.
"Our offense is like the pythagorean theorem: There is no answer!"
Shaquille O’Neal quotes (American NBA Basketball Player, Rapper and Actor, b.1972)
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
You ignore the fact that other than Whitney and Cullen the so-called half the team who were jettisoned were not very good hockey players. Why don’t you write Jim Rutherford and tell him he now has a less talented team with Yelle, Walker, Ward, Wallin, and Alberts unloaded and Brind’Amour. It would make for a good laugh.
Sent via Ipad
No one’s denying the team has more talent, but that doesn’t mean the team will definitely be better. I don’t even think the majority of people disagreeing with your assessment believe the team will be worse; we just don’t think they’ll be good enough to seriously compete. Experience and chemistry are important factors to a team’s success. As JR has stated, many players will be shuttled between Charlotte and Raleigh during the season. This statement only calls into question both experience and chemistry.
And you seem obsessed recently with people writing letters to JR. You know you could write him a letter also; maybe he needs a “love” letter from you after he reads all of our “you’re a moron” letters. :)
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 21, 2010 10:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is exactly why I frequently just give up in exasperation with you, AD.
Everytime a nuance is attempted to be discussed with you, you simply ignore the points made and repeat one of your dead-horse mantras.
In case you missed class that day, “Is, too” is not considered to be an especially effective debate style.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
by Elsker on Jul 21, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The point is so simple there is no sane counter- argument. Start with the 2009-2010 team at the start of the season.
Now jettison Ward, Wallin, Alberts, Yelle, and Walker. These players were not good at all for the Hurricanes.
Have Brind’Amour retire.
Trade Cullen and put Sutter in as second line center.
Add Carson, McBain, Babchuk, and Sanguinetti.
Add Boychuk, Bowman, Tlusty, Dalpe, Nash, Osala, Dwyer, and Skinner.
The result is beyond any serious dispute that the 2010-2011 Hurricanes are more talented than the team that started 2009-2010.
Add a healthy Cam Ward, Staal, Ruutu, Cole, LaRose, Pitkanen, and Jokinen.
Seriously, can you possibly suggest you think the experience of Wallin, A. Ward, Yelle, Alberts, and Walker makes you convinced the 2009-2010 Hurricanes are better than the 2010-2011 Hurricanes?
Are you really not getting this? We think the team should be entertaining and should probably be better than last year’s squad. But we don’t believe the team is good enough to legitimately compete for the Cup. We all know we are rebuilding and our expectations are at that level.
If this was a Team X’s assessment, would you be so high on them:
Team X is coming off a disappointing season. They have jettisoned many of their veterans as they look to rebuild. They enter the season with only 1 center on their depth chart that started the 09/10 season on a NHL roster. Their 3rd leading scorer left via free agency and is expected to be replaced by a promising rookie. Their only experienced left wingers combined for less than 25 goals last season. Their #1 goalie is coming off an injury plagued year with one injury being to his back. Hockey’s Future last ranking of their prospect pool has them 17th out of 30.
That’s a lot of negatives and I don’t think it is that bad, but I’m trying to prove a point. This upcoming season is a bigger questionmark than most. You can’t seriously expect us to swallow “the kids will save the world” just because you were impressed with them in their AHL games.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 21, 2010 11:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually, it is that your position is so utterly without basis that makes me question if you could possibly be serious. Team X got rid of three poor defensemen. When Team X replaced those slow, unproductive, and penalty-riddled defensemen with more talented, faster, more cerebral defensemen Team X went on a tear and was one of the best teams in the NHL. Team X jettisoned two old, veterans at forward. One was a gritty player who could not stay healthy and whose body was bearing the brunt of years of hard-nosed hockey. The other forward was an old, slow center, who took ridiculous penalties and was waived, but nobody would take him. The team replaced those two players with former first round draft choices and second round draft choices who were blazing fast, had great hands, and played solid defense.
Team X had a fine, second or third line veteran center, who played excellent defense and was very good on the penalty kill; but who was totally non-physical and who scored 12 goals through 60 games. Team X replaced that center with a former first round draft choice who was blazingly fast, cerebral to the point of taking one penalty, and who scored 21 goals. This young center was excellent at putting the puck in the net in traffic.
Team X did not re-sign a 38 year old, 5’10", 175 lb. quick, but not fast forward, who was one of the best passers in the NHL; and who could be counted on for at least 20 goals a season; and who was a leader in the locker room. Team X replaced this forward with a cadre of young talent at forward – all of whom were faster, stronger, more physical, than the forward they replaced.
Team X was devastated by injuries in 2009-2010. The team captain and best player was injured throughout the season. The team’s power forward who was highly skilled and was the team’s best hitter was injured, the team’s second power forward broke his leg and then had a re-occurrence of neck injuries, the team’s star a goalie was injured and missed a substantial number of games, the team’s most skilled defenseman hurt his knee working out at the start of the season and missed early games in the season, the team’s best goal scorer in 2009-2010 with 30 goals hurt his hand working out and was injured at the start of the season, a veteran defenseman had his Achilles tendon cut during the season and missed a substantial number of games, the team’s best stay at home defenseman broke his foot and at the end of the season was not able to play; and the team’s energy forward who scored 19 goals in 2008-2009, injured his knee and played hurt the entire season.
Despite those factors, once the younger, more talented players were given a chance to play, Team X made a gutsy run for the playoffs. Those are facts. They are not opinions. The won lost record before and after is a fact. The injuries are facts. The speed and quickness of the new players are facts not opinion.
The same team that fought through a terrible run of injuries and the incompetent play of some veterans who were jettisoned, is now healthy. The same team has the young players with NHL experience under their belt and a year of getting stronger.
Your premise that Team X is a worse team in 2010-2011 than in 2009-2010 is without any factual basis. Before the season, Team X in 2009-2010 was ranked by a number of commentators as being in the top six in the Eastern Conference. Team X in 2010-2011 is beginning the season without their weakest players from 2009-2010.
In short, although you continue to try to defend the indefensible by repeating conclusions without facts to support them, the facts truly speak for themselves. Team X’s best players from 2009-2010 are returning and are healthy. Team X’s worst players from 2009-2010 are gone; and some likely will not play again in the NHL. Team X’s puck moving defenseman who was traded at the trade deadline was re-signed.
Team X competed for a playoff spot after the Team X’s deadwood was unloaded. Team X improved its talent pool for 2010-2011. Team X is a team that can and will compete for a playoff spot based on its performance in January 2010 through the end of the season.
AD, again you are completely off-base. I never said team X was the worse team in the NHL and show me one thing I said that was untrue. You use a bunch of adjectives to discribe the wrong kids and say that it is fact they are better than the older players. In all honesty, who scored more goals and had more points last season; Brind’Amour or the combination of Dwyer/Nash/Dalpe? This is what I’ve been saying; while the kids project well, there is NO factual information that they will outperform the “underachieving veterans” that are no longer on the team. And last year was not good. Yes we went on a run, but we still ended the season with a top 10 pick. To have a better season, we need to see improved numbers, not the same; and you are making it out that unproven NHL players will certainly achieve these better numbers.
If you want to look at numbers, here is a projected lineup for the Canes:
Jokinen-Staal-Ruutu
Tlusty-Sutter-LaRose
Boychuk-Nash-Cole
Samsonov-Dalpe-Kostopoulos
1. These LWs combined for 48 goals, 2 less than Ovie.
2. These Cs combined for 50 goals, 1 less than Stamkos.
3. These RWs combined for 44 goals, the same amount as Marleau.
I’m really not as down on this team as this post would indicate. I’m just not as over-the-top as you AD. And you criticize us for not seeing potential as improvement. We could be better, we could not. The point is; its a big unknown at this stage!
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 22, 2010 8:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s an apples to oranges comparison that you are trying to make. You state that you formed the conclusion the Hurricanes are not a team in 2010-2011 that can compete. Your opinion has been stated and restated. The problem is the opinion is totally without basis; and as facts are pointed out to you to demonstrate the utter lack of merit to your position, you continue to repeat the conclusion.
Additionally, it is undisputed and inarguable that in 2008-2009, the Carolina Hurricanes made it into the Stanley Cup playoffs and into the Eastern Conference Finals. Here are the players now missing from that 2008-2009 team:
ADDITIONAL BY SUBSTRACTION — PLAYERS WHO HAD EITHER LITTLE OR NO POSITIVE IMPACT ON THE TEAM:
Brind’Amour
Wallin
Eaves
Bayda
Kaberle
Walker
PLAYERS WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THE TEAM
Cullen
Whitney
Seidenberg
It is a joke to say the 2010-2011 Hurricanes are not a contending team because they don’t have Seidenberg, Cullen, or Whitney. Really, you have to be kidding me. Do you seriously suggest that the key to the Hurricanes success in 2008-2009 was Cullen, Seidenberg, and Whitney and that they are irreplaceable? Surely, you recognize that the Hurricanes are better of without
Brind’Amour
Wallin
Eaves
Bayda
Kaberle
Walker
on their 2010-2011 team and that they were easily replaced. You can’t possibly suggest that the massive string of injuries in 2009-2010 really helped the Hurricanes and that Cam Ward, Staal, Ruutu, Corvo, LaRose, Pitkanen, Jokinen, Gleason, and Cole actually will be worse in 2010-2011 because they are healthy.
The more you present the argument and try to repackage it, the clearer it is that the argument has no factual basis behind it. The truth is fairly basic. The Hurricanes had to replace meaningful players from 2008-2009 in form of Whitney, Cullen, and Seidenberg. The replacements for 2010-2011 will be more than fine. From 2009-2010, the Hurricanes had to replace meaningful players in the form of Whitney and Cullen. The replacements are more than fine.
The same core players that lead the Hurricanes into the Eastern Conference finals are back and healthy. The same core players that led the Hurricanes on an impressive run from January, 2010 through April, 2010 are back and healthy. The young players will more than hold their own in having to fill in scoring for Whitney and Cullen.
So instead of making unfounded conclusions, why don’t you go player by player and explain how player by player the Hurricanes in 2010-2011 are worse than the Hurricanes in 2008-2009 and 2009-2010. Which players did the Hurricanes lose from those two teams that were so critical that they have not been adequately replaced?
AD,
You keep commenting that I have no factual basis, but where is yours?
How can tell me for fact that Sutter is better than Cullen? Sutter scored more goals last season, but Cullen had more assists and points.
How can you tell me that Nash is better than Brind’Amour? Has Nash ever even played a professional game? So where are you pulling that factual information from? There is none.
So who is going to replace Whitney, Boychuk or Tlusty? Their combined career goal totals don’t even equal Whitney’s last year. So beyond potential or projections, there is no facts that say they will perform better than Whitney.
And take a serious look at the 08/09 squad. It was an above average team that got hot at the right time. We weren’t world beaters.
You say to show you who we lost that was so critical. Why don’t you show me who we added that improved us? And support it with actual facts rather than adjectives.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
Seriously, you can’t go player by player because it merely points out the theater of the absurd your position has become. Really, you suggest Nash is not a better hockey player than Brind’Amour. Brind’Amour retired because he was no longer able to play even a minor role on the team. If you go player by player, the only player whose absence could be felt is Whitney.
With regard to Cullen and Sutter, the team when on a winning streak with Sutter on second line center, despite all the injuries. You really contend the Hurricanes will fail because Sutter is on the second line?
So again please enlighten us, who are the terrible, wretched, pathetic new players whose presence on the team will sink a team that in 2008-2009 went to the Eastern Conference Finals? Who are these players who will cause a team that was so impressive from January, 2010, to April, 2010, to be a bottom rung team. I am very interested to read your insights. There must be particular players you have in mind. Who are are they?
AGAIN, I’m not saying the players are wretched! That is you twisting words around trying to make your stance more feasible.
Is Sutter better than Cullen, probably yes, but there is no factual proof that Sutter is the better player. In the 2 partial season’s that Sutter has played, Cullen has more points. That is only fact, not feeling.
And no I don’t suggest that Brind’Amour is a better player, that is you again putting words in my mouth. I suggest that Nash is an unknown, so you can’t say anything for certain about him. Could he perform better than Rod of last year, yes; but he could also be overmatched at the NHL level and perform worse. WE DON’T KNOW!!!
This is what I have been saying, but you don’t seem to understand. These kids are variables, we don’t know how they will perform in important roles against NHL level competition.
And go back and look at the history of the team. The Canes were a mid-level team in 08/09 that got hot and ended up in the 6th spot in the East. They continued to be hot in the playoffs, until they got simply worn out from 2 brutal 7 game series. The team for the most part came back intact and performed like sh*t at the beginning of 09/10. Did Aaron Ward bring us down that much? Or was is Yelle? No, the team was just a mid-level team that wasn’t on a hot streak and their confidence was severely shaken by some bad breaks.
Could this 10/11 team compete for the playoffs, maybe. But is it a championship caliber team, no. Stop twisting my words and look at the team. We will be depending on players that have little to no time in the NHL, to say they will definitely be better or worse is asinine. That is why I’m saying this upcoming season is a questionmark.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 22, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
2008-2009 success just was a series of lucky breaks? That is plain silly to suggest.
The reason for going player by player is obvious. A team is comprised of players. To compare the progress of a team, you take the players on the team in a particular season and compare them with the players still on the team and the new players for another season.
The player by player comparison is helpful to refute statements such as yours that the 2008-2009 team was not really very good, they essentially just got lucky. Your discussion began by arguing that the 2010-2011 Hurricanes could not compete. That conclusion is easily disproved by the facts. The argument has morphed to some degree to the conclusion that well maybe the Hurricanes will be ok, but who nobody can say for sure because several of the players are pretty new to the NHL.
How can a team that went to the Eastern Conference Finals in 2008-2009, and then when mostly healthy in January, 2010 through April, 2010, went on an impressive run, be deemed to be a team that can’t compete?
It is quite simple to compare the players who were jettisoned to the players who remain and who now are on the team in terms of their ability. To say otherwise means no team can ever be assessed either as a good team or a bad team.
As in 2008-2009 and 2009-2010, the Hurricanes depend on Staal, Cam Ward, Ruutu, Jokinen, Pitkanen, LaRose, Cole, Corvo, Gleason, Babchuk (for 2008-2009 and 2010-2011), and Samsonov.
Rather than depending on Seidenberg, Wallin, and Aaron Ward, they are depending on McBain, Carson, Sanguinelli, and Harrison.
Rather than depending on Yelle, Walker, and Brind’Amour, they are depending upon Boychuk, Dwyer, Tlusty, Skinner, Nash, Dalpe, Bowman, and Osala.
Rather than depending on Cullen, they are depending on Sutter.
Rather than depending on Whitney, they are depending on Boychuk, Dwyer, Tlusty, Skinner, Nash, Dalpe, Bowman, and Osala.
It is simply beyond argument that as long as the Hurricanes get an A game from Cam Ward, Eric Staal, Ruutu, Jokinen, Pitkanen, Gleason, LsRose, and Corvo; and as long as the Hurricanes avoid massive injuries, they are a talented team that will be in the hunt for the playoffs – just as they were in 2008-2009.
Nothing has changed other than Whitney is gone, and otherwise easily replaceable players were replaced by faster, younger, more skilled, and more physical players. That concept really is straight forward.
You are putting words in my mouth again. I never said the 08/09 team was lucky, I said they got hot at the right time.
And I’m not sure this team can compete with other Eastern Conference teams. Experience is a big factor when playing against other experienced teams. We have some limitations there, especially if some injuries occur (which is likely to happen). As a lawyer, would you rather go into court with a hot-shot kid just out of school or a good lawyer with 7 or 8 years of experience?
Like I said AGAIN, the team is going to struggle, but should improve. They are not Finals contenders; but maybe, just maybe they can get on a roll and creep into the playoffs. That would be a great learning experience for the young players.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
You should stop Pack. No matter how many times you rebut, he’s going to keep saying the same thing like a broken record and putting words in your mouth. Don’t waste your time anymore. How ‘bout this? I’ll start a new topic………………………………………………How bout the size of this text box huh? Pretty small.
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
by wilmnoca on Jul 22, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Smartest thing anybody's said on the thread.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I would rather have an experienced attorney with a high degree of skill; but I would much prefer a young attorney with skill and character than an older attorney who is slack.
I can’t conceive why you continue to say words to the effect: “Like I said AGAIN, the team is going to struggle, but should improve. They are not Finals contenders; but maybe, just maybe they can get on a roll and creep into the playoffs. That would be a great learning experience for the young players.”
Why is the team going to struggle? Which players’ absence causes you to reach that conclusion. Your conclusion is entirely contradicted by your own player by player comparison in which you concede only Whitney versus Boychuk is what you termed “Boychuk is probably a downgrade of Whitney, at least for this season.”
How does the difference between Whitney and Boychuk justify your statement "y you continue to say words to the effect: "Like I said AGAIN, the team is going to struggle, but should improve. "
The reason I say the team is going to struggle is because of the learning curve. Especially the players that have no NHL games on their resume. They should improve as the season goes on, but this season will probably be a struggle because according to JR, kids will be shuffled between Raleigh and Charlotte. What I’m saying is a not a contradiction.
I also took your advice and did a player by player analysis of the 09/10 squad (the beginning of the year) and a projected 10/11 squad. I used PPG as I felt that would best eliminate the injury issues. Next year’s squad had a nice improvement of PPG on the blueline. McBain was almost 0.6 PPG higher than who he replaced in Wallin. Now the forwards had a drop in PPG production of almost 0.6 PPG. Since Dalpe & Nash have no NHL experience and thus a 0 PPG average, I took out who they replaced. Next year’s squad ended up having a 0.4 PPG less average than the squad from last season.
In the end its just my opinion versus yours, but I do believe that this upcoming season is going to be a struggle as the kids get accustom to their roles in the NHL. Maybe I’m wrong, time will tell.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 23, 2010 12:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
PackPride17, it would be great if you wouldn’t mind providing the detailed analysis in a post – maybe in a separate new post.
“In the end its just my opinion versus yours, but I do believe that this upcoming season is going to be a struggle as the kids get accustom to their roles in the NHL.”
To try to analyze which players you mean when you say “as the kids get accustom to their roles in the NHL,” I divided the team between veterans and kids. I am assuming you did not include Sutter in the kids. I divided the team between the veterans and the kids. The kids include some older players like Dwyer.
Veterans:
Goalie:
Cam Ward
Defense:
Gleason
Pitkanen
Babchuk
Corvo
Offense:
E. Staal
Ruutu
Jokinen
Sutter
LaRose
Samsonov
Kostopoulos
Cole
Kids Who Will or Might Play w Canes 2010-2011
Boychuk
Dalpe
Tlusty
Dwyer
Bowman
Nash
Skinner
Osala
Matsumoto
Defense:
Carson
McBain
Sanguinetti
Harrison
Goalie:
Peters
There are four open spots for forward lines, and Tlusty has a one way deal, so he is set to take one of the four spots.
Of the three remaining spots, the Hurricanes have choices that include:
Boychuk
Dalpe
Dwyer
Bowman
Nash
Skinner
Osala
Matsumoto
On defense, there are two open spaces for non-veterans and the kids who are available to play on defense include:
McBain
Carson
Sanguinetti
Harrison
I will try to get that to you, but you can go to NHL forecaster for the PPG averages. I know it’s not a complete analysis because it only takes into account points scored, but it was best one I could think of. I placed Carson in the 6th defenseman spot rather than Harrison and I used Babchuk’s KHL PPG from last season instead of his last NHL season (they were very similar).
Anyway, here are the players I used for each squad.
09/10
Whitney-Staal-Cole
Jokinen-Cullen-Ruutu
Samsonov-Brind’Amour-LaRose
Walker-Yelle-TK
Gleason-Corvo
Pitkanen-Ward
Wallin-Alberts
10/11
Jokinen-Staal-Cole
Tlusty-Sutter-Ruutu
Boychuk-Dalpe-LaRose
Samsonov-Nash-TK
Gleason-Corvo
Pitkanen-Babchuk
McBain-Carson
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
Did Cory’s article impact to some degree your conclusion that Boychuk was a statistically significant downgrade? I haven’t run the numbers, but from my recollection, Whitney just wasn’t the same after the trade deadline.
In any event, I think Cory is 100% correct that Jokinen and Sutter need to be on the ice more.
I was surprised by Bob’s PPM results, but I still feel this team will have a learning curve to overcome. The Canes have a lot of young forwards that should prove their worth this upcoming season, but as of right now we are still short up top. I have stated before that Ray wasn’t a top line player (more 2nd line IMO) and the Canes have still not address that top line slot. I think Staal is a top line player. I think Jussi is a nice compliment to Staal, but I’m not sure he is a true 1st line guy. Beyond that, the Canes have prospects, but no certain top line players. The top 6 usually plays 2/3rds of the game and IMO, we are lacking in proven top 6 players. Maybe Boychuk, Dalpe, Skinner become top 6 players, but time will tell. This is what I’ve been trying to convey, we have a lot of question marks. I think Dalpe will be a top 6 player, but I have no evidence of that. He has yet to play 1 NHL game. Same with Skinner. My opinion of Boychuk is not that high. I think he’ll be a fine player, but probably a 3rd line winger on most teams. I really believe that his value is the highest it will be right now because it is more about potential than what he will actually become.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 24, 2010 2:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Skill and character, huh?
How would you define that? Would it be something like their grades in law school? Go back to their LSAT? Because, last I checked, those numbers tell you nothing about how an attorney will actually perform, the exact same way as a pedigree, juniors/minor league performance, or an intriguing size/skill combo will tell you nothing definitive about how a player will perform at the highest level of professional hockey.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
"Brind’Amour retired because he was no longer able to play even a minor role on the team."
Hmm…not using opinions instead of facts here, are you? Where was it that Brind’Amour, Rutherford, Maurice, or any other member of the organization suggested that was true?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you KIDDING me?
if we’re talking about ‘09, then suggesting that Brind’Amour, Walker, Wallin, and Kaberle did not contribute is ridiculous. They did not have the flash and style you seem to be sure our young players can contribute, but they contributed the type of workmanlike substance that is needed in a playoff race and once you get there.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course the numbers from 2009-2010 of the remaining players look terrible largely because Staal, LaRose, and Ruutu were injured. Here is the link to the statistics from
2008-2009 when they were healthy.
So again, if the 2010-2011 Hurricanes are worse than the Hurricanes of 2008-2009 and 2009-2010, please show us player by player where the deficits in ability are. Given the fact that Staal, Cam Ward, Ruutu, Jokinen, Cole, Sutter, Pitkanen, Corvo, Babchuk, Kostopoulos, Dwyer, Samsonov,and LaRose remain with the team, the numbers involved of new players are relatively low.
You must believe the new players are truly terrible to have such a negative impact on the team. In fact, they’d have to be outstandingly bad to drag down a team from competing in the Eastern Conference Finals in 2008-2009, to be door mats in 2010-2011. Who are these terrible, awful, very bad players of which you speak?
Cole and Samsonov
You just named two of the worst and they’re players you’re counting on producing, that CAN’T be good for your argument man!
Satan is just a coping mechanism for monotheists.
Cole and Samsonov
Cole was on the team in 2008-2009 when the Hurricanes went to the Eastern Conference Finals. He played in 80 games and had 18 goals, 24 assists for 42 points. Cole was obtained in trade in 2008-2009. For the Hurricanes in 2008-2009, Cole played in 17 games and had 2 goals and 13 assists for a total of 15 points in 17 games. Are you really complaining about a player being almost a point a game player?
Seriously?
Samsonov also was on the Hurricanes in 2008-2009. His statistics were in 81 games he had 16 goals and 32 assists for a total of 48 points. In 2009-2010, Samsonov played in 72 games and had 14 goals and 15 assists for a total of 29 points. So the fact that Cole and Samsonov were on the team in 2008-2009, 2009-2010, and now 2010-2011 can’t stand for the proposition that the Hurricanes will be worse in 2010-2011 because Cole and Samsonov are on the team.
Again...
Weren’t you the one arguing how past performance was no argument for the future success of players? I’m thinking of this guy whose name starts with a B and ends in ind’Amour.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
09/10 Players that should improve in 10/11:
Staal – healthy, Corvo – healthy, LaRose – healthy
09/10 Players that have questions in 10/11:
Ward – his back, Ruutu – his shoulder
09/10 Players that should have near equal results in 10/11:
Jussi – it might be a little less because he is coming off a career year. Pitkanen, Gleason, Kostopoulos, Carson, Dwyer should be about the same.
Possible downturn:
Samsonov and Cole are probably going to have similar or worse results. Sammy will probably only see limited action. Cole has gradually been getting worse and worse.
Replacements:
Babchuk should be an improvement over AWard. McBain should be an improvement over Wallin. Carson is about equal to Alberts. Boychuk is probably a downgrade of Whitney, at least for this season. Sutter should be better than Cullen.
I don’t think the team will be horrible, but I’m trying to be realistic. There are going to be growing pains, but you don’t want to accept that.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 22, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Cole, Samsonov, and others
Cole only played 40 games and had 11 goals. He is definitely injury prone; but when healthy for the Hurricanes in 2008-2009, he played 17 games and had 15 points. That is not getting worse and worse, at least when healthy. Similarly over 40 games, Cole had 11 goals, in 2009-2010. Again, when healthy Cole is not a down grade.
Samsonov had 16 goals in 2008-2009; and had 14 goals and 15 assists in 2010-2011. His role is likely to continue to be reduced, but he is not getting worse and worse.
It’s a stretch to say Ward’s back is a reason the team will be worse. He has gotten a bill of health from his doctors. Ruutu’s shoulder may well affect him at the start of the season – that is not known one way or the other as far as I am aware.
Carson versus Alberts is a no brainer. Carson played in 54 games and had 2 goals, 10 assists and was plus minus plus 5. Carson had 12 penalty minutes.
Alberts played in 62 games and had 2 goals, 8 assists, and was plus minus plus 7. He also had 74 penalty minutes.
As your notes indicate, the only player who seems to have any argument of being truly missed is Whitney; and forward is the position where the Hurricanes are strongest. If the worst downgrade is Boychuk in place of Whitney, the team is in extremely good shape. Boychuk has tremendous potential and has some physical skills Whitney would long to have; of course Boychuk would love to have Whitney’s experience and magical ability to pass the puck in ways that don’t seem humanly possible.
Mr. Lawyer, go take a look at Cole’s stats. Since the 06/07 season, Cole’s point totals have dropped every year. And since the 05/06 season, Cole’s PPG have also dropped every year. So that would indicate he is getting “worse and worse.”
Since Samsonov came to Carolina, he averaged 0.84 PPG that partial season. The next year he averaged 0.59 PPG, this past season was down to 0.40 PPG. Samsonov is not a physical force, he is here to score. So again, he has gotten “worse and worse.”
Ward’s back IMO is a big consideration, but that is just a feeling. The same with Ruutu’s shoulder. He likes to check and is somewhat injury prone, so a bum shoulder could force him out multiple games this season. And who would replace him, Osala? Maybe he can do the job, but like I have mentioned repeated, he is an unknown at the NHL level.
You say Carson versus Alberts in a no brainer. Their numbers are similar, except for the PIM’s, and there is a reason for that. Alberts is a much more physical player, which will cause him to draw more penalties and he also got into a few fights. I’m sure you can look that up on hockeyfights and find out that information.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 22, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ward’s back is a huge question. Peters and Murphy won’t have enough to carry the team for long unless there are some defensive upgrades along the blue line. If Ward goes down things could get very bad next season. Now that Corvo and Carson have been resignd I think this season is going to be about how far Ward can carry the team. He’s going to have to be big because they guys on the blue line outside of Gleason aren’t exactly shutdown guys. Ward could be facing a lot of high percentage shots this season.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
Since when do injury-prone players get healthier and more successful as they get older?
Cole ain’t no bird dog.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Speed and quickness≠Success.
To suggest otherwise would be to call Samsonov and Cole 50-goal scorers on an annual basis.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Will you then...
write him and tell him he was stupid to trade young players for Weight, Recchi, and the rest of them? It certainly cost us future talent, and if all you care about is “good hockey players,” it certainly cost us years of them.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If we're using "perhapses..."
Perhaps Boychuk can’t hack it as a top-six player and puts up six or eight goals for the whole season. Your theory is no more valid than mine.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
RED HERRING ALERT!
Nobody said they’d trade Cullen for Sutter. They said he’d be an upgrade in performance for the Hurricanes in the upcoming year.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
TOTAL mischaracterization of his points.
No GM would make those trades, because those players are younger and cost-controlled. However, that does not mean that they will be an improvement over the course of just next season. For instance, note all the veterans that we were able to trade away for picks and young players last season. Strikes me that the Stanley Cup-winning Blackhawks considered trading young, talented Cam Fowler for older, more experienced Kim Johnsson a “grand plan.”
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
"For example, we know how Carson played in 2009-2010. He is not going to be a worse player just because the calendar changed."
Isn’t this EXACTLY the same logic you said was so ridiculous to use to support veterans continually being able to contribute to a team?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with C-Leaguer, the replacements are not necessarily correct.
1. Aaron Ward really replaced by Babchuk – definitely an improvement just because AWard sucks.
2. Wallin replaced by McBain – should be an upgrade, but definitely an experience gap.
3. Alberts replaced by Harrison or Carson – maybe better, maybe worse.
4. Yelle replaced by Nash or Dwyer – should be an improvement, but a downgrade on the PK probably.
5. Walker replaced by maybe Tlusty – that should be an improvement, but Walker played 4th line and Tlusty is expected to play 2nd line. I don’t think Tlusty is that good, but that’s a whole other debate. If Tlusty was replacing Walker on the 4th line, then it is an improvement.
6. Cullen replaced by Sutter – equal; we gain some size and speed, but lose some experience.
7. Whitney replaced by what, Boychuk – I would say downgrade. Boychuk has potential, but our top line is going to struggle this season. A lot will be asked of Staal and Jussi and Jussi has only done it for 1 year so far.
8. Brind’Amour replaced by Nash or Dalpe – I know Rod needed to retire, but bringing in 2 guys to replace him with no NHL experience. It could be upgrade, but probably not a substancial increase given they will be rookies.
We are replacing a lot of known quantities (even though some were poor quantities) with unknown young players. It should be better, but the question is how much better and how long it will take them to get up to speed.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 21, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How exactly do you figure Ward is replaced by Corvo?
Both were in our top six at the start of last season. And when it comes to spots like 4, 7, and 8, calling a total unknown a surefire improvement over proven veteran commodities is pretty ridiculous.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 26, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I just tweeted this… Riley Nash will be on http://www.theteam1260.com in Edmonton tonight between 7-9 pm Edmonton time (9-11 pm EDT). You can email questions to pipeup@theteam1260.com. If I hear a more definitive time I’ll tweet it at @jbk_ltd.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
UPDATE – He’ll be on in the second hour, so between 10-11 pm EDT. Will be interesting to see what kinds of questions he gets from an Edmonton crew.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
I listened to the Pipe Up show. Those that couldn’t tune in didn’t really miss much. The interviewer mostly concentrated on why he left Edmonton, did he have bad feelings towards Edmonton?, Why didn’t he stick it out at Edmonton?
Riley was asked what helped him make his decision and he said that he came to camp hoping to learn more about the organization and the area. Unfortunately when he was talking about the more interesting topics (Carolina) his cell phone reception when out and we couldn’t hear 1/2 of what he was saying.
"The increase in pain is way beyond what you would expect a person to play with," said coach Paul Maurice. "Unfortunately it’s even beyond what Tim Gleason can play with, because he can play with just about anything."
I listened and made some notes as well that I’ll try to post when I get to a real keyboard. Station also plans to post a replay link.
Sent from Blackberry.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
How long was Nash on? Once it broke that Kovy’s contract was rejected I assumed the show would be all about Kovy. If they do post that replay link I’d love if you posted a link.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
Regarding the Riley Nash interview… here are a couple of links:
Pipeline Blog – where they announced the interview
Pipeline Media Archive – where they will post the interview, it’s not up yet, looks like they run a few days behind, I’ll keep checking back but this is where I think it will be located.
The Pipeline’s specialty is prospects so they’ve interviewed Riley on a number of previous occasions plus with him being an Edmonton draftee over the years he’s been accessible to them. Like Cyn said previously it was about 10 minutes and most of the line of questioning was the interviewers trying to get to the source of his departure from Edmonton, not so much about the Hurricanes. I don’t know if the post-interview comments will make their way into the replay but there were a few callers and emails afterwards.
What Riley Nash said…
The decision really has just been made, his goal in coming to prospect camp was to get an overall feel for the organization because he quite frankly didn’t know a lot about the franchise. He was very happy with the camp experience. Being Canadian he’s always dreamed of playing for a Canadian team, and there was never a question of wanting or not wanting to play for Edmonton. He felt that the opportunity with the Hurricanes was a good fit for him, and he does want to get the NHL experience sooner versus later. He feels he has matured a lot physically over the last year which helped with the decision. The interviewers asked if he perhaps agreed to less money or had a wink/nudge agreement in place to get on the NHL squad as opposed to minors, and he said that there was no such agreement was in place, that he was expecting to earn his spot on the roster and that money was not a concern for him as he expects a long career in the league and he expects that the money will be there when the time is right. I found him to be well-spoken and forthright in answering the questions.
That being said, you could tell that both the interviewers and the callers had some skepticism about his comments. Their line of questioning was more to try to get him to admit that he didn’t want to sign with Edmonton and try to find out who or what was the trigger point. They mentioned possible friction with Tambellini, some criticism from Kevin Pendergast (not sure if I have his name correct?), they mentioned Bob Mancini (?) as a former member of the Edmonton player development staff who they thought Riley was tight with, Bob’s contract wasn’t renewed and they felt that was perhaps an impetus for Nash to look elsewhere. After the interview was over they mentioned that they still were sure of his reasons for “walking out of the Oilers organization”.
Then I got distracted by Kovygate and that’s all I can remember LOL.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
Canes Review in the Bleacher Report
The Bleacher Report had a report at this link on the Hurricanes. It is well worth reading.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Canes Country
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- In which former NHL coach Ken Hitchcock foils a shoplifter
- Montreal's Price talks new 2-year contract, expectations post-Halak
- Donald Fehr aware of Kovalchuk drama, mum on everything else
- Puck Headlines: Savard's agent rants on Bettman; Halak in Montreal
- Boudreau, Crawford placed on the coaching hot seat
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
