Staal's Consistency Revisited
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 21, 2010 10:38 AM EDT
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PrintBob Wage's analysis of Canes' scoring consistency in 2009-10 made me wonder if Staal scored more consistently when the Canes had more complementary scoring. I'd suggested that the Canes' lack of complementary offensive threats had depressed Staal's scoring, but I wasn't sure. I went back and checked Staal's 100-point season in 2005-06 to see.
Staal scored in 59 of 82 games in 2005-2006, or 72%. That compares with scoring in 61% of his games in 2009-10. Staal's 72 percent performance in 05-06 isn't up there with Ovechkin's 78% last year, but it's better than Heatley's 67%.
Last year, Ovechkin had the benefit of Backstrom's 33 goals and 101 points and Semin's 40 goals and 84 points. The Caps had seven players with more than 50 points. Heatley had the benefit of Thornton's 89 points and Marleau's 82. The Sharks had six players with more than 50 points.
On the Canes, Jokinen had 30 goals and 65 points. Whitney had 21 goals and 58 points. The Canes had a total of three players with more than 46 points, including Staal. Back in 2005-06, the Canes had eight players with more than 50 points and another player with 49. It seems the more threats the opposing defense faces, the easier it is to score. That doesn't seem surprising.
I doubt this proves that Staal would score better and more consistently if the Canes had more offensive firepower, but it strongly suggests it. The most likely explanation for Staal's offensive decline is the decline of Brind'Amour and Cole because of age and injury and the departure of Cory Stillman and Justin Williams. Ray Whitney and Matt Cullen were here last year, but they were also on the 2005-06 team. Back then, Whitney and Cullen were the 8th and 9th leading scorers on the Canes. Last year, that was LaRose and Kostopoulos with 28 and 21 points.
Staal will score more if and when he has a team around him that is closer in firepower to the 2005-05 Canes.
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Based on the stats you & Bob posted, on paper it doew look like it might be a “banner” year this coming 2010-2011 season…besides we can hope & pray huh ?? good effort and thanks…Be Safe !
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
That Checkers 3rd Sweater ROCKS !!!
Really?
You think we’re going to have nine players with 49+ points?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Excuses. Cory Stillman and Justin Williams are not better than Jussi and Ruutu. He needs to quit pouting on the ice, play 100% every shift, and for god’s sake work on his faceoffs. Show some fire like he did in the 05-06 season, that is what has left him.
dude, it may be excuses but to say that Stiler is not a superior player to Ruu and Juice just kinda reeks of a personal bias to me. Also, Stillman, during that point in his career, was a point producing machine and one of the best, most underrated set up guys in the league. J Willie you can argue, but Stiller definitely outstripped them both in his prime.
by wylde4canes on Jul 21, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
JJ,
I really like both Ruutu and Jussi, but based on their careers so far; Williams and Stillman are the better players.
Comparing Stillman to Jussi over the past 5 seasons.
Stillman (season average) – 63 games, 16 goals, 34 assists, 51 points, 0.81PPG
Jussi (season average) – 77 games, 17 goals, 31 assists, 47 points, 0.61PPG
Comparing Williams to Ruutu over the past 5 seasons (I actually did Ruutu’s over the past 4 because he only played 15 games that first season).
Williams (season average) – 59 games, 17 goals, 26 assists, 43 points, 0.73PPG
Ruutu (season average) – 70 games, 17 goals, 23 assists, 40 points, 0.57PPG
What this shows is the Jussi and Ruutu are more dependable than Williams and Stillman, but the 2 former Canes produced better when in the lineup. It’s no excuse for Staal and his production, but Stillman was a good setup guy for Staal. Staal really hasn’t had that since Cory left. I’m happy with our newer, younger players, but I still hope they can find a playmaking winger to hopefully bring out the best in Staal.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 21, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You are really going to factor in Jussi’s time in Tampa when it is widely known and accepted that he was wrongfully buried there? I think that may be wrong.
Consider that Jussi scored 65 points as a 27 year old and Stillman didn’t even break 60 points until he was 30 years old (didn’t even come close with the exception of one 57 point year).
Williams may be better than Ruutu at similar points only because Ruutu is so injury plagued… But I think you would be remiss to leave out the fact that he does a LOT more for us than just scoring points, especially compared to Justin Williams who was oft-injured also but significantly less physical.
And, in any case, Stillman and his 76 points for us in 05-06 is not significantly different from Jokinen’s 65 points last year as a compliment winger. It would certainly not have made Staal a 100 point player again.
Really?
11 points over the course of a season is HUGE. That’s an extra point every seven or eight games.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but we did not have under 30 year old cory stillman so the argument is invalid. It is about what kind of skills the player brings to the table at that particular point in their career. You put Staal on a line with a good playmaker, his numbers will go up. Whether or not he should need a better winger, or whether he should be making his wingers look better is s a different more valid argument.
by wylde4canes on Jul 21, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright, let’s just dismiss Jussi’s 08/09 season, because his regular season with the Canes wasn’t that much better than that season with Tampa.
He averages over 4 years; 79 games, 19 goals, 33 assists, 52 points, 0.66PPG
So even though he averages 16 more games played a season, he only is +1 on the average points per season and is 0.15PPG lower than Stillman. And Stillman had a real sh*tty year in 06/07 where he only played in 43 games and only had 5 goals and that was included in his totals.
Like I said, I like Ruutu and Jussi; I just saying the other guys were more productive in their careers.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
Even if both Jussi and Ruutu aren’t as good as Stillman and Williams… To suggest a Staal-Stillman-Williams line results in a 100 point Staal while a Staal-Jokinen-Whitney (last year) or Staal-Jokinen-Ruutu line results in a 70-80 point Staal is just silly. That is on Staal, not his linemates. Maybe Backstrom or Joe Thornton (as said in the article) could carry Staal to 100 points, but Stillman is no Nicklas Backstrom (not even close).
See, now you’re just becoming defensive and just want to criticize Staal. Neither Backstrom or Thornton would CARRY Staal to 100 points. Staal is a great player and like this post states, he needs to perform more consistently. But when Staal scored 100, that line had a good balance. Staal was the goal scorer, Cole was the power forward that drove the net, and Stillman was the distributor. The Canes haven’t found that combination since. Whitney-Staal-Jussi is missing the power forward. The season before, a lot of the season was Samsonov-Staal-Ruutu and that didn’t work great.
No one is saying Jussi and Ruutu suck, but Stillman and Williams were pretty damn good for the time they were here. I’ve said it before and I will say it again; Ruutu IMO belongs with Sutter not Staal. Also Jussi is a great compliment to Staal, but those 2 alone don’t make a line. Jussi is not quite the playmaker that Stillman was, so either add a very good power forward or playmaker to that line and Staal’s and Jussi’s point production increases.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
But when Staal scored 100, that line had a good balance. Staal was the goal scorer, Cole was the power forward that drove the net, and Stillman was the distributor.
That’s the formula, all right. And, I agree that we’re still searching for the pieces to re-create that balance on our first line.
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
Sorry, but you guys seem to be the ones suggesting that Staal needs to be carried to 100 points by his linemates. I’m the one suggesting that he has already done and therefore should be able to do it again without the help of elite talent.
Jussi isn’t an amazing playmaker but he is decent… I’d say the same about Stillman. Maybe he is just too long gone, but I have never considered him to be the elite Playmaker most here think he was. I agree, he had a 3 season run where he was very good (67 points for the Blues in 02-03, 80 points for Tampa in 03-04, and 76 points for us in 05-06), but that didn’t even start until he hit 30 years old which is very late for a player to hit his prime. Before and after that he was and has been rather mediocre. After all, Stillman (and Williams) played with Staal for two more seasons after our Cup win and couldn’t produce even close to the same results.
I’m not even saying Staal is a 100 point player. I think he is a 90+ guy, but to get to that he needs wingers that are capable. When Staal scored 100 points, Cole (not Williams) and Stillman were his main wingers. Neither of those 2 were elite players, but they were very good players at that point in their career. Cole is not the same player anymore and obviously Stillman was traded and he is long in the tooth now. I also never said that Stillman was an elite playmaker, but he was and is arguable still a better playmaker. That’s not taking anything away from Jussi, they are just different players.
And regarding the following year or two. Cole suffered the neck injury and has never regained his old form. And Stillman was injured the following year; only playing 43 games. So Staal went from a very functional line in 05/06 to aging, injury plagued wingers the very next season.
I think Jussi is a fine winger for Staal, but he’s not a take control guy; he generally let’s things come to him and capitalizes. Staal doesn’t need another “elite” winger (but it would be nice), he needs a playmaker that can shoot or a power forward that drives the net. Two type of players that take the sole focus off of Staal; giving him more room to operate and score more points.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 21, 2010 8:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Really?
So if a guy has done something once in his career, he should be able to repeat that feat, regardless of the supporting cast around him? Ridiculous.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Staal shows up when it counts, I don’t disagree with that, but he also doesn’t show up quite often
So you are saying it doesnt count quite often????
Also, the list of 100 point scorers that have average line mates (40-50 points per season) is extremely small. My point there is that very few players (Staal included) cant score 100 points on a mediorce line.
RED HERRING ALERT!!!
Who suggested that to be true?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't see it as Jussi and Tuomo vs. Stillman and Williams
Fire up the time machine and send a healthy Tuomo and Jussi back to 05-06 in place of Stillman and Williams. The 05-06 Canes would still have been a hell of a team with numerous threats.
Conversely, put the Stillman and Williams of 05-06 on last year’s Canes in place of Tuomo and Jussi, and the Canes would still have struggled.
It wasn’t the individuals that made the difference — it was the number of talented individuals.
I have to agree with PackPride that Stillman is, or at least was, the most offensively talented of that group. I still find it hard to believe that he would have been enough to transform last year’s Canes.
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 21, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He DID factor in Stillman's time in Tampa when he was, you know, old.
Comparing these players at similar stages in their careers doesn’t really matter. It’s what they did for the Hurricanes (and Staal) that does, and our current guys pale in comparison.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
*Florida
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree about the face-offs and would add shoot-outs to the list. It would help if he were built more like Jordan or Jared and stronger. It would help if getting pounded every game never injured him.
Staal’s not perfect, but there must be a very short list of players in the NHL that you find acceptable.
Ovechkin, Crosby, and who else?
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 21, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said Staal was not acceptable nor did I say he wasn’t an elite talent. In said pretty much the opposite… My point was that Stillman and Williams are not significantly better than Ruutu or Jussi, they really aren’t. Even if they were slightly better, it is certainly not the difference between a 70 point Staal and a 100 point Staal.
He has everything he needs to be a perennial 90-100 point guy but he underachieves. He needs to put up a more consistent effort from seasons beginning to end (especially in the beginning). He needs to give 100% every shift, he needs to care about the regular season like he does the post-season. Ovechkin and Staal are not all that different, the difference is Ovi gives 100% and plays with reckless ambition every single shift. He has better linemates, but he could put up 100 points with any two wingers in the NHL. Lets not forget Ovechkin was putting up 100+ points seasons before Nicklas Backstrom was even in the NHL!
Strongly disagree about Overchkin and Staal not being all that different. Staal is an elite talent, but Ovechkin is on a higher plane. Ovechkin is an amazing scorer all by himself.
Staal is not the same type of individual threat skating into the offensive zone (or in a shoot-out).
I think Staal’s thin build also makes life much tougher for him. Some disagree, but I think Staal gives his all. It’s just that he gets beaten to a pulp and it takes its toll. Then people accuse him of not playing hard all the time.
Staal needs an enforcer-like power forward for protection. He doesn’t have one. Ovechkin is an enforcer-like power forward as well as a great scorer. He doesn’t need anybody else’s protection. That is probably the biggest difference between them.
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 21, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems to me like at points, such as in the Playoffs, he stepped up to his true potential and lit on fire. Take when he was named Captain as an example… I’m too lazy to go look at the specific stats, but I can recall (and I’m sure the data would show) that he was scoring goals, hitting slappers into the top corners, and overall showing 10 times his normal effort. He seemed genuinely interested in playing again and it really showed, he could have taken down Ovechkin no problem. If he showed that effort and passion all season he would be a 90-100+ point guy every year.
I agree that Ovi is more of an enforcer for himself, but Staal is quite big and considered to be a Power Forward… Putting an enforcer on his line may help clear some more space for him, but bulking up and learning to use his body a little better might help more in the long run.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3342/gamelog
It was even worse than I expected… Look at the range from when he was decided to be Captain around Jan. 16th to March 4th. In the few weeks after he was named captain he scored 17 points in 11 games! He was on fire, I can’t make myself believe that is just a coincidence. If he played like that year-round he would match Ovi.
Do you think it’s any coincidence that he was named Captain AFTER he came back from injured reserve (his first injury in several seasons) and AFTER he returned from a difficult personal family situation? And perhaps that timing also factored into his performance along with the captaincy change?
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on Jul 21, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually he came back from injured reserve nearly two months before he became captain… If you are suggesting it took him 2 months to get healthy (which just happened to be the exact point he was named captain) he should have been held out much longer. Also really doesn’t explain how this effect tapered off greatly as the season came to a close.
I think the torn oblique explained some of the drop-off toward the end of the season. At least perhaps for me it does.
And his very good friend and sister-in-law passed away in early January. From what I recall from reading the articles that came out at the time of the captaincy change, Rod and Eric discussed the captaincy change several times before it was finally announced on January 20th. I don’t think it’s far-fetched to assume that the leadership change was affected at a time when Staal had the greatest likelihood of initial success in his new role, and that’s on and off the ice.
Look, I’m not trying to be a Staal apologist. Lord knows he’s one of my favorite players to yell at when he’s on the ice, and I usually yell at him to skate harder or faster or to get up more quickly after a hit or some penalty he thinks he drew. My expectations for him are very high.
But I have to say that you’re a far better man than I am, JJ. Because I think I’d have a hard time being enthusiastic about my hockey team if I really thought that its leader was some slacker that wasn’t interested in showing up and doing all he was capable of doing on any given night.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
by Jamie Kellner on Jul 21, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that is a little over exaggerating… I never called Staal a slacker, I simply think he has a high gear and a low gear. High gear is the 90-100 point capable player we see in the Playoffs, usually against Pittsburgh/Washington games (Again personal opinion, but I think he plays harder vs. Ovechkin and Crosby), and when he was named Captain this year.
Low gear is still an elite NHL player, but a 70-80 point Staal who pouts after his shots right into the goalies chest don’t work, gives up on plays if they aren’t going his way, and STILL can put up a point per game.
All my opinion from watching him every game since he has become a Cane. When he had his 100 point Sophomore season, he was a demon on the ice and played in high gear 100% of the time. However, obviously I’m in the vast minority based on this post.
Yeah, you’re right. You never called him a slacker. But you did say he pouts on the ice, underachieves, needs to care about the regular season, and shows up when it counts and often doesn’t show up. JMO, but I think when you make those types of comments you’re calling into question his character and his integrity as a player, you might not mean them that way but they come across that way to me, and those are two things I don’t question about Eric Staal.
I watch him too, at as many games and practices as I can get to. I have high expectations for him as a person and as a player, and I actually DO agree with a lot of what you’re saying, and I don’t think you are the only one who feels that way, he gets plenty of criticism, maybe you’re just the only one here to post about it today. To whom much is given, much is expected.
But I do think you need to cut the guy just a little “slack” (pardon the pun) for playing hurt last year. I really don’t think it’s because the guy isn’t trying.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
by Jamie Kellner on Jul 21, 2010 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Here are your numbers for the PIT/WAS splits:
These totals are from the ‘05-’06 season, when Crosby and Ovechkin entered the league.
Overall: 398 GP, 182 G, 215 A
(.45 G/gm., .54A/gm, 1.0 P/gm.)
vs. PIT: 20 GP, 11 G, 14 A
(.55 G/gm., .70 A/gm., 1.25 P/gm.)
vs. WAS: 36 GP, 17 G, 24 A
(.47 G/gm., .66 A/gm., 1.14 P/gm.)
non-PIT/WAS: 342 GP, 154 G, 177 A
(.45 G/gm., .52 A/gm., .97 P/gm.)
So, honestly, the numbers aren’t much different, and may well have as much to do with the fact that nether the Penguins and Capitals have played a very strong defensive style during their stars’ reign as anything else.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I see your point, JJ, but you and I perceive what’s happening differently. You think Staal takes games off. There’s nothing more annoying in pro sports. You think Staal is tall and thin because he hasn’t worked to put on muscle. You don’t think Staal gives his best effort for his big paycheck.
I’d be mad too if that’s what I saw, but it’s not. I see a guy who’s tall and thin and as strong as he’s going to get despite working hard.
I saw a Penguins’ game last year where Jordan Staal sent Chris Pronger flying. My jaw dropped because I thought Pronger would win the way he does against Eric. It didn’t even seem to take much effort on Jordan Staal’s part to knock Pronger down. The laws of physics were on Jordan’s side. They’re usually not on Eric’s.
When I see Eric Staal fighting Pronger and Chara, Eric loses the physical battle. He keeps fighting. Against the biggest, strongest players, Eric loses most physical battles. I think he gets hurt but stays in the lineup. Those scoring droughts, in my opinion, are often because of injuries. Players play hurt, the injuries hidden behind NHL policies, their performance tanks, and fans start to hate them for not earning their pay.
Ruutu is in a somewhat similar position to Staal’s, in my opinion. He’s the forward who does most of the hitting for the Canes and last year tried to do more of the fighting. In reality, Ruutu is not all that big. He has the heart of a lion, and the Canes have no alternative, what with Cole’s broken neck, Sutter’s slender build, etc. How often can they send out Harrison and Kostopolous? As the games go by, Ruutu’s hitting wears down Ruutu. His performance slumps until the Canes finally give him an all-expense-paid trip to surgery.
It’s isn’t that Ruutu and Staal are lazy athletes or moral weaklings. It’s that they need more physical support on a team sorely lacking in that area. They sacrifice their bodies and play on, and then they get trashed for not playing harder.
If Staal’s not going to be appreciated here, perhaps someday he will begin to think about a trade to the Rangers. (There’s more than one way to reunite the Staal family.) In New York, Eric Staal would be worshipped as a god with Gaborik on right wing. They both need complementary scorers. Why not?
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 21, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The physical rigors of the NHL are omni-present. Every team and every player faces the same problems, I don’t really count that as a good excuse. There are teams that are far worse off than us in the physicality department and the teams that over-compensate find themselves wishing they didn’t due to a wasted roster spot.
Don’t worry about shipping him off, It seems I am the only one that wishes Staal would play in his Playoff/Newly Captain form all the time. Hopefully we can find him his super-tough yet skilled banger (I guess Ruutu doesn’t count?) and elite playmaker in the next few years… I’m sure management would start to agree with me when Staal is earning $9+ million dollars a few years from now (Crosby and Ovechkin money without the results).
wow..
your cynicism is impressive… were you kicked a lot when u was a puppy??
Do you not care about the notion that a player would excel when the stakes are highest?
Or would you rather Staal put up 100 points every regular season and disappear during the playoffs. Continuing to compare him to Crosby and Ovechkin while totally disregarding the inferior talent around him is unfair and unreasonable.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
CCF, I don’t know you, but I do love you.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
by Jamie Kellner on Jul 21, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you talked to Eric about this?
I mean, if you’re so certain you know how hard he’s playing on a night-to-night basis, maybe you soudl share your insight.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not so certain and don’t claim to be. I contrasted my impression—of a guy who’s trying hard but subject to physical wear and tear—with JJ’s impression—of a guy who doesn’t train hard enough or play hard enough. They’re both personal impressions. I also said if I had the same impression of what’s going on with Staal as JJ, I would share his criticisms of Staal.
There’s no guarantee that either impression is right. Both impressions may be wrong. I didn’t suggest I have direct access to divine truth about how hard Staal is or isn’t trying or how much he is or isn’t hampered by injuries known and unknown. You may note I used several instances of expressions such as what I see, I think, in my opinion, etc. That’s usually enough to qualify something as personal opinion rather than a certain claim to know anything.
I respect what JJ reports as his honest impression. My honest impression is different.
What did you see when you looked at Staal last year?
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 27, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw an excellent player giving his all in a tough situation.
Linemates weren’t great, team wasn’t particularly successful most of the time, and he was fighting through injury on a personal front.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
We saw the same thing.
Could be a two-person mass delusion, but it’s nice to see your impressions are consistent with mine.
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 28, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
You do know Staal didn't play a full season, right?
Would 82 points in 82 games this year on a bad team have made you happier?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair Staal had 9 points in his last 3 games after a 5 point night in Montreal and a 4 point night in Tampa. Take those away or replace them with his season average at that point and he has considerably less. I am willing to accept he was maybe just injured the majority of the year and he was just coincidentally most healthy the month he was named captain and the last few games of the year.
You were far to late to the game.
Are you serious?
First, those two guys were absolutely better scorers than our two current ones (other superior components to their games notwithstanding.) Further, they were in the top five to seven range among our forwards. Jokinen and Ruutu are pretty much our #2 and 3 guys.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Waa?
Cory Stillman was a great playmaker in that season. Better than Ruutu and better than Jussi. Justin Williams had a season that put him in the same category as the other two guys. I mean look, if you want to be critical of a guy on the team, Cam Ward is a better target. His play has been more inconistent than Staal. Staal is a warrior. He may not look the part but ask Martin Brodeur what he is made of. This is your franchise player. If you don’t like him, find another franchise. This constant throwing crap and seeing what sticks….it just sucks.
In THAT season. The Canes caught lightning in a bottle that year, no question… Players across the board were wildly over-performing (including Staal). Jussi and Ruutu are much younger than Stillman was at that point and still have plenty of room to grow. Stillman didn’t even break 60 points until he was 30 years old.
Staal shows up when it counts, I don’t disagree with that, but he also doesn’t show up quite often. I believe my criticism is valid and there are many who would agree… Why don’t you take a chill pill and find some facts to support your claim instead of childish personal attacks.
So 06 was a fluke? I don’t see how your criticism is valid, he had a point per game, yes most were at home but that’s not because he mailed it in, he averaged 20-23 min per game and ended up a plus 4 playing against the other teams best line every night. If he didn’t put up points on a given night it was more to with matchups, its pretty easy to play against a team that only has one line that can score consistently. His analysis above is pretty true, when you don’t have balanced scoring you become one dimensional and easy to play against. If anything, he had to play a lot harder last season to put up points because of the lack of scoring elsewhere on the team.
I don’t know.. Is lightning in a bottle the same as a fluke? Is it coincidence that so many Canes players had their career years all at the same time and created a Cup run? The point I was trying to make is that you can’t say X player is great because of Y year… Look at Cheechoo.
My point is Stillman was not head-over-heels better than Jussi. People here are making it seem like Staal would be a 100-point player again if he only had Stiller… That just seems silly to me. Even if Stillman is better than Jussi, he isn’t by such a huge margin that Stall is a 100 point player with Stillman and a 70-80 point player with Jussi.
Right, I agree with that, the things that allows Staal to get back into the 100 point range are really: consistent production out of his wingers (at least give him the same wingers to play with game to game), consistent production out of the 2nd & 3rd line (otherwise the other team puts a blanket around Staal and he’s got no space & no time), and the last thing is get an early start – he seems get really hot right after the All-Star break; he needs to be putting up points early & often.
His effort in the beginning of the season has been a consistent problem… With a coach like Maurice, unfortunately he will probably never have stable line-mates.
Has it?
Did he write you a letter or have a sit-down with you and tell you that he’s not giving any effort at the beginning of the season?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No, nobody's asserting that at all.
But with a Stillman category scorer (points, not necessarily goals) on his wing, he’d have a hell of a lot easier time. Neither Ruutu nor Jokinen are that.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No, nobody's asserting that at all.
But with a Stillman category scorer (points, not necessarily goals) on his wing, he’d have a hell of a lot easier time. Neither Ruutu nor Jokinen are that.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
not a personal attack IMO
I can’t see why you think that. Staal is our franchise player and (though subject to criticism like any player) gets his share of “abusive comments” which are often “over-the-top”!!! obviously when a STAR player has more quality players on his team, the opponents have less chance to concentrate on just him… but that’s different than saying he was “wildly over-performing”!!
sometimes your comments are a little bombastic IMO, and i understand using exageration to make a point, but his comments were’nt any more “childish” than some of yours!
A little more civility here would be nice, both amongst us and towards some of our Canes players who seem to GET “unCIVILLY” CRITICIZED eh?!
It wasn’t lightning in a bottle that the Canes caught in 05-06. It was too many threats buzzing around the defense. No matter where the other team put its top defensive pairing, there were other lines with real scoring punch. So they couldn’t just load up the defense to stop Staal.
EVERYBODY benefited. Staal scored more because the others did. The others scored more because of Staal. And it wasn’t a one-line thing—it was three lines. Eight forwards scored very well.
Same with Ovechkin and Crosby. They make Malkin, Semin, Backstrom, etc., better, but those other talented players also make life easier for Ovechkin and Crosby.
I’m not suggesting Staal is as good as Ovechkin and Crosby. For one thing, those guys can both score with ease one-on-one against a goalie. Staal doesn’t have comparable talent in that respect.
But Staal is damn good, and the more scoring threats you have, the more it helps everybody score.
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 21, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
"Personal attacks?"
None were offered, chief. You might be the one who needs to start on the pills. Paranoia’s unhealthy.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm
If I said YOU suck that would have been a personal attack. We do not have to guess at what I said… It is right there. Read it again.
I have been watching this sport long enough to see who the best player on the team is. Staal is an elite player. He makes everyone around him better and is the primary reason for most of the success the franchise has seen since his arrival. The team has responded since he has become the captain. As far as I am concerned, this player deserves nothing but thanks. Without Mr. Staal, we may be talking about the Raleigh Checkers instead of the Charlotte Checkers. One more thing… Did it occur to you that sometimes playing with pain can look like lack of effort? Just because he is good enough to play in pain without complaint is not an invitation to jump. It is to be respected and admired not scorned and harassed.
by KenRab on Jul 22, 2010 7:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
+1
Exactly!! I never understand the RABID criticism of any of our players!!! fair criticism is fine, but blatantly nasty comments (ie xxx sucks) have no place on a board geared for OUR CANES!
To be fair… I used the search function and the only people who even used the word “sucks” were you and KenRab. I can’t find one person on this whole thread who had “Rabid criticism” for anybody.
Criticism is a moot point
Staal is the franchise player for the Canes, followed closely by Cam Ward. JR and PK have decided to build this team down the middle. Let’s hope they have enough sense to re-sign Pits next year. There are a lot of teams that would be pleased to have those 3 as building blocks for a playoff team.
Canes will sneak into the playoffs in 10-11, and lose in the second round. PK will loosen the purse strings a little in 11-12, and the young fellas will continue their development. Look for the Canes to be one of the best teams in the EC in 11-12.
FTFY
Let’s hope they have enough sense cash to re-sign Pits next year.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
If anything, this is a stark reminder of how much we have lost since 2006.
For what it is worth though, we only had 6 50+ players that year with Cullen at 49, as Recchi and Weight did most of their scoring before the trades. That is important, in that it does not make it look like Staal was buried on an exceptionally deep team, but led a pretty powerful, but by no means unheard of, offense.
Also, I would argue that not everyone was wildly over-performing. Only Williams and Staal truly exceeded their normal career numbers. Whitney was a little low on points that year. Stillman, Brindamour, Cullen, and Cole were scoring at their typical rates for those years (in fact they mostly had better seasons the following year).
05-06 was not a happy accident, it was a deep, well-built team. We have struggled to find that sort of offensive depth since. We really do not have it right now. Ruutu and Jokinen are great, but they are two second-line wingers. Sutter has not yet developed into a true top-six player, and is only beginning to replace Cullen. Cole is a shadow of his former self. It is a lot to hope that at least two of the Rats develop into 50+ point players this year, or in the next two or three. We are a long way from 2006, when we had scoring depth with three centers and four wingers before adding weight and recchi.
by prplmnkydw on Jul 21, 2010 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If the Canes didn’t overachieve in 05-06… And they were a “deep, well-built team”, then what happened in 06-07? We had basically the same team… Staal still had Stillman and Williams. Why didn’t we even come close to repeating? We were Cup champions after all.
Well after the Cup, key components of that team like Cullen and Ward went elsewhere. Also, the team seem to play tired. But I do agree with you that the team did overachieve that season. But that could be said with many teams that won the Cup.
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So Aaron Ward and Matt Cullen were the difference between a Cup Champion team and an 11th place in Eastern Conference team? I still think there was a good deal of overachieving.
At that time, they were both very good players that played important roles for the team. There was a reason that JR reacquired both of them. And again, I pointed out that the team played tired. Most of those guys went from a year of not playing (during the lockout) to playing over 100 games. Edmonton sort of fell off also after their Cup run. But also like I said in my post above “I do agree with you that the team did overachieve that season. But that could be said with many teams that won the Cup.”
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Jul 21, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We weren't the first team it happened to.
Deep or not, we didn’t (and don’t) have the money to pay for stars four lines deep. And on a team like that, a deep postseason run is going to wear the team down.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
While many here
do offer,suggest an etc how the 05-06 squad was compared to 09-10 squad in raity is nothing more that comparing peaches to necturines…and if most of all here would look at all the tapes of the canes for each and every year from 05-06 until now everybody looked tired won out after the first week of march of every year…even last season and while the run to nowhere was wonderful but many players were hurt, tired battered and bruised…what seperates any team from anothher on any given year is where they finished according to some experts…but we Caniacs have to admit that and even though the canes caught fire a little too late last year..the team over all out proformed to what many of the so called experts thought or had even expected…so and in conclution…while many of you have valid points…but still we must never forget that as fans..all we can do from our seats is to cheer,boo come & go out happy or sad, and specuate our booties off till the cows come home…as that is our right & freedom to do so…But remember gang…the players & team we support are nothing more than huan like you 7 me…they are diffeent as they have skills and abilities we’d all die for…so let’s keep the sabre rattling to a minum at least unti Christmas…then we get out our tounge lashing kits and let the bums have it who aint playing up to our expections…even when they are skatng n 2 broken legs, 2 seperated shoulders and 1 torn acl…and only got 3-4-2 out of the last 11 games shall we ? :-} Play nice Tweet harder !!! hehehe…C-Ya time to get redy for Cavuto!!
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
That Checkers 3rd Sweater ROCKS !!!
To continue to have this discussion over and over again…. that is an issue of itself. We realize the problem discussing to death will not fix it. He has an NTC for the next several years.. turn the page accept the issue and move on….
Creeky,
Staal is not the problem. Even if he didn’t have a NTC, the Canes would be stupid to get rid of him. I even read an article from a Kings guy the other day saying he would love to get Eric Staal, but the Canes wouldn’t get rid of him because he is the one to build a franchise around.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
The Cup run was not a fluke. But I don’t see how it can be ignored that the individual statistics achieved during that year can be viewed as a basis for debate when being compared to the statistics achieved with the current league-wide scoring rates. 100 point Eric Staal? What about 70 point Eric Staal the next season? 82 point Eric Staal the season after that? A lot of the aforementioned players were still around for those years. Or are we only suppose to look at Staal’s point totals gained on one of the highest scoring teams in the league in a ridiculously inflated scoring year? The Carolina Hurricanes are not going to score 286 goals again any time soon and neither is any other team not named the Washington Capitals.
The Carolina Hurricanes scored 226 goals this season, which was good for 13th in the league. 226 goals in 05-06 was good enough for 25th in goals scored. The goal production that constituted an above average offensive team this year would have been considered one of the worst offensive teams in the league then. So why hold Eric Staal – or anyone else for that matter – to a different standard?
Scoring last season was at 91.4% of the level it was in 05-06. If we were to adjust Staal’s scoring rate this season to reflect the league-wide goals scored in 05-06 and the number of games played (70 this year versus 82 then), you wind up with 90 points. 90 versus 100 is not a huge drop off, especially when you consider the “supporting cast” this team has to offer.
by Kahz on Jul 21, 2010 3:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
Great post.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Redundant
Comment!
"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" -- Oddball, from Kelly's Heroes
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by Raccoon Fink on Jul 27, 2010 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Eric Staal will not reach 100 points again in his career. But that doesn’t mean he’s not an elite player. I think we were a little spoiled in 05-06, and if he goes on to score 70-80 points per season, I will be happy. A point per game is nothing to sneeze at. He was the 12th highest-scoring center last season (26th overall), 12th/25th on 08-09, and 7th/16th in 07-08.
We’re discussing linemates, we’re discussing depth, and yes, these were factors in Staal’s amazing 05-06 season. But you also had an offensive-minded coach and tweaked rules that benefited offensive, talented teams like the Hurricanes. Look at player stats from 05-06 across the league: lots of inflated numbers in the post-lockout season. The Canes truly caught lightning in a bottle, and an 80 pt. center became a 100 pt. center. He will, unfairly, have that 100 pt. season hanging over his head for the rest of his career.
Rule changes regarding "Clutch and Grab"...
The Canes speed, and well-coached avoidance of “touch” fouls, were a big source of penalties against opponents (many) vs canes penalties (few)!! i remember early-on that year, seeing team after team spending a lot of time in the sin-bin, while we scored PP goals! The year after that the REFS seemed to relax their “interest” in calling it “close”!! i suspect the Torontos of the hockey world complained about the number of fouls called?
I think Staal will score more if and when he’s no longer suffering from a torn oblique and a groin injury. But perhaps that’s just me.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
So right
You are so right LTD. And add a torn biceps into the injury equation for him last season.
These are also the type on injuries where there are various degrees of seriousness and you can play but not at 100%. They often take a full summer off to fully heal.
There were times last year when I was questioning Eric’s intensit. Then I talked to one of the coaches and he said there were times towards the end of shift that the pain and weakness were really getting to him. What some fans saw as pouting and giving up was more a function of the injuries.
I’m not a Staal apologist and believe that with his talent he can and should consistently perform at a high level. But I also believe we need to be reasonable as to what that means. It is an 82 game season. There is no way the legs will go the same every night and he (and every player) has nights where they are just on and others where it is a grind. Anyone who has ever played the game at the professional level will tell you that.
Having the right wingers will also help give him time and space. If the D and backcheckers know he is the prime shooting threat it is easier for them to tighten their space and focus on him. Remember when Trottier had Bossy. Even though no one would ever consider him a sniper you simply couldn’t cheat towards one without the other killing you. Even Gretzky did much better when he had Kurri. Maybe for Staal that player will eventually be Skinner. I just got back from Canada and heard from many that even with all the talent and depth that Windsor had will Hall, Fowler, Ellis, Shugg, etc, that Skinner almost stole the series and that he is just deadly.
Not suggesting 100 pts is the norm for Staal
Just that more offensive firepower on the Canes will lead to more scoring by Staal.
Restore Cole and Brind’Amour and Williams to youth and health and the Canes’ roster, bring back the Cullen and Stillman and Whitman of that year, and the Canes would once again be an offensive powerhouse even if they didn’t score as much as back then. Recchi and Weight came late, but Kaberle was still a factor then, Andrew Ladd was a bit player, and Kevin Adams, Craig Adams and Joe Vasicek made contributions. That was an extremely deep, talented team. Staal was the kid on the team, and he was no ordinary kid.
Budget, age, and injuries whittled that group down substantially. That hurt Staal.
And last year, not only were Brind’Amour and Cole shadows of the 05-06 players and Williams and Stillman gone. Ruutu, Cole, and LaRose got hurt. The Canes’ talent on the ice was not comparable to the earlier team.
It isn’t that in the Cup year, Staal was the great man propping up Cole, Brind’Amour, Williams, Cullen, Stillman, Whitman and the rest. Cole, Brind-Amour, and Williams were really good then. Pick any of those seven scorers at random, and the other six made life easier for him. Staal was no exception.
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 21, 2010 5:44 PM EDT reply actions
Well said...
With a little non-injury luck, we may see some serious improvement in the team and Staal scoring!!
Wow this seat is...ummm...warm!
Mr. Staal has, as HM2 tweeted, some prestigious company on this Hot Seat list (with a tip of the hat to caniacgirl for first discovering this).
Unanswered questions are far less dangerous than unquestioned answers.
“Last season’s 29-goal, 70-point performance wasn’t nearly good enough.”
I know it’s not a 100 point season, but a PPG is pretty damn good. Especially when I would say Staal didn’t have a very good year. I wonder if the writer of the article even knew that Staal missed 12 games last season? If he would have played 82 at the current clip, he would have wound up with 34 goals and 48 assists; not too bad.
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I didn’t take it to mean that Staal needed to step up because he was bad this season. I took it as Staal needs to step up because as captain and the veteran leadership, he’s going to shoulder more of the burden than even before, leadership-wise and scoring-wise. The team doesn’t have enough known NHL firepower for Staal to score 70 points and still make the playoffs.
IMO, it wasn’t so much a “you sucked last year so be better this year” list as a “the team counts on player X and the team is going to need everything player X has and possibly more” list.
OMG-I can’t believe I just semi-defended Staal. I’m going to go take a nap. Or have a drink.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
The logic behind these hot-seats isn't so hot
Gaborik is on the hot seat too, and the logic seems to be: Since the Rangers didn’t win when Gaborik had a good season, they won’t win unless he has an incredible season. Therefore, the pressure is on him to have an incredible season.
In some cases, the seats for these players seem to be hot because their teams are extremely dependent on them and have nowhere else to turn. If you looked at the same facts from a GM-perspective, you’d say the pressure is on JR or Sather to add a top-line scorer to give Staal or Gaborik and their respective teams a fighting chance.
You could also look from the rookie perspective and say the pressure is on the young forwards to come through—that the teams have gone as far as they can go with one top offensive talent, the teams can’t spend enough to get another top-line forward, and therefore somebody else in the system has to come through. In the NFL, the pressure would be on the prospects—they would either have to become scoring stars this year or they would be called busts and the GMs who drafted them would be called idiots. I doubt people would be saying that the pressure is on high-performing vet stars from last season to perform at an even higher level.
It’s weird to put all the heat on the guys who DID come through last year despite relatively little help and, at least in Staal’s case, significant injuries. I don’t know if Gaborik was healthy all year or not.
by curiouscanesfan on Jul 24, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Typical lazy national columnist writing a silly season preview article.
Didn’t look at much other than the stats columns on NHL.com.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
2006: Staal has 56 ES points, 40 PP points, 4 SH points
2010: Staal has 47 ES points, 23 PP points, 0 SH points
In 2006 guys were putting up 50+ PP points a season since there were a lot more PPs all around—that’s why 300 goals wasn’t such a special barrier. This past season it was, as teams have become more disciplined after feeling out the rules in 2006 and 2007. That explains part of Staal’s lower point total—fewer PPs (and probably less PPTOI/gm, though I haven’t checked exact numbers). The other is just that that team was better, I guess.
And as others brought up, Staal can be a very good player. When he’s playing what looks like inspired hockey he reminds me of Malkin—just that when the two are “off” Malkin has more pure talent to get things done than Staal.
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That's also 55 ES points normalized to a typical 82-game season for Staal.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 27, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Power Play Points
Some of us are convinced that this year’s success rides on the back of the power play and the penalty kill. Last year at the start of the season both the power play and the penalty kill left much to be desired. The penalty kill improved sooner than did the power play. The power play got going during the Hurricanes hot streak, and when it cooled off, the Hurricanes’ ratio of victories to defeats declined.
If Staal gets the right combination of teammates on the power play, he ought to be able to dominate. He has too much speed and size for teams to shut him down if they also have to worry about other players. Babchuk may be just what the doctors ordered. If he is unleashing his shot fury, the defenseman will have to keep their eyes on Babchuk to avoid getting bonked by the puck.
+1 Babchuk is a plus
Agree with what you said about Babs! he seems to be an overlooked commodity, in regard to our PP this year! his shot was something i think we missed last year (A LOT)!! Many games last year,
we had PP opportunities, where if we had scored, we would have put teams back on their heels, and/ or could have put them away! he could have a significant affect on the season!
Michael Procton
To quote your most often used phrase: “Really?”
Seemingly you usually arrive pretty late to the dance.
But, 22 comments, without any intervening responses, on a thread started 6 days ago?
Well, that has to be some kind of record. :-D
Here we are now...entertain us.
by Elsker on Jul 27, 2010 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It just barely beats out the 20 comments (also without intervening responses) he posted in the Riley Nash thread that was started 8 days ago.
Of course, 5 posts out of the 20 were “+1”.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
by Jamie Kellner on Jul 27, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
…laughing…I thought one heck of a flame war or a very interesting debate had sprung up in here, since the comment count had jumped nearly a third. Although I was also wondering “why here and after all this time?”.
Sorry, MichaelProcton, you know your hockey, so, don’t get me wrong, your comments are appreciated.
But, perhaps when weighing in very late on a thread, a consolidated post with your thoughts, reactions, and comments added to the thread, instead of a string of “likes” and “dislikes”…that would be worth the look-back.
Here we are now...entertain us.
Hey, your choice to read or not to read.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 28, 2010 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
…shrug…suit yourself.
Put your thoughts in a post and I’ll read them.
String out 20 “likes” and “don’t likes” and once I see what’s going on, I’ll move onward.
Waste of your time and mine, in my opinion, not to mention bandwidth. But feed your compulsions, if you must.
Here we are now...entertain us.
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