Donald Fehr Poised To Take Over NHLPA? Erik Cole, "We Need To Be a More Unified Bunch"
by Bob Wage on Aug 26, 2010 8:00 AM EDT
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PrintThere were several internet reports out on Wednesday night indicating that former Major League Baseball Union chief Donald Fehr is poised to officially come out of retirement and take over the NHLPA.
James Mirtle of the Globe and Mail reported that the union's executive search committee had recommended Fehr for the job of Executive Director and the matter was now up for vote before the union's 30 player reps. Puck Daddy's Greg Wyshynski is now counting the days before the next lockout.
Fehr is known as a very tough customer who helped make the baseball union a force to be reckoned with and he has the experience which would certainly be appealing to the rank and file of the hockey union. The NHLPA could use some reliable direction as they have been without an official leader now since the controversial firing of Paul Kelly about a year ago.
One player rep who most likely will give Fehr his vote is Carolina Hurricanes rep Erik Cole. I spoke with the winger after his informal practice on Wednesday morning and asked him about Fehr as well as other union business. When I questioned him, he would not confirm Fehr as a legitimate candidate for Executive Director, but he had nothing but praise for the acting adviser.
"I can just say that Don has been a very positive influence on our outlook regarding how to address our union moving on and how to further establish and strengthen the union. Everything from the office out. Personally, I feel that his input has been invaluable. He is certainly a very experienced and intelligent man when it comes to collective bargaining. We are very fortunate to have him helping us out and pointing us in the right direction."
While not naming names, Cole did say that the executive search committee was "finishing up the interview process."
We have candidates in mind who not only fit the bill with credentials, but also have a unique way to relate to the players, which is one of the more important things we are searching for. We need to be a more unified bunch, so we are continuing on in that direction.
Cole said that other current union business included: "the competition committee looking at rule changes as well as other related issues, and working with free agents out there and their agents and trying to find jobs for these guys."
While some in the media seem to think that this potential hiring could lead to a borderline doomsday scenario regarding a future lockout, the NHLPA has appeared to be dysfunctional as of late, at least to outsiders looking in, and they definitely need a strong, knowledgeable leader. Having someone in charge with 23 years of experience would seem to be a better option than having someone in charge with little experience who might make decisions based upon emotion, rather than comprehension and understanding.
For better or worse, it looks like Don Fehr will be the man. It also looks like Gary Bettman and the NHL Board of Governors will not be running rough shod over the union in upcoming negotiations.
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Collateral damage
African proverb:
“When the bull elephants fight, the grass is trampled.”
Here we are now...entertain us.
Collateral Damage
From my perspective dealing with litigation every day for the past thirty years, I have significant concerns where the NHLPA is heading. I can envision a situation where Fehr uses his experience to conduct intense but productive negotiations and a work stoppage is avoided. My gut reaction and instinct has warning bells sounding loudly in my head. The NHLPA is not unified. The economy is still battling to wrench itself out of a significant recession. There are far more NHL quality hockey players than there are roster spots.
There is also a natural conflict of interest of sorts between the top 5% of NHL salary earners and the other 95%. Samsonov cannot bargain for a ten year retirement contract. Perhaps as many as 30 NHL players have the talent to dictate their own terms; and the remainder are subject to being replaced. I am also concerned that negotiators/litigators tend to have long, long memories, and the risk is they will fail to see how one case/negotiation differs. I would also imagine trying to lead the NHLPA would be like trying to herd cats.
If I had to estimate the chances of avoiding a work stoppage under Fehr’s leadership, I’d estimate no better than 50-50. I guess under the worse case situation, I will get very familiar with the train between Raleigh and Charlotte; and perhaps the Checkers will make a number of appearances at the RBC. I don’t see Fehr as a person who understands the limits of the NHLPA’s power and leverage. To the contrary, I am concerned he is out to make a statement rather than find solutions to difficult problems in which no side is 100% right and no side is 100% wrong. Mark me very concerned.
Very good comment, the one thing I disagree about is the chances of a lockout occuring again. I think because it wasn’t that long ago and it was extremely painful for both sides they’ll compromise in order to keep a product on the ice.
I hope you are right!
a work stoppage / lockout for an extended time would be death to many franchises.
Perhaps a ray of sunshine?
When Donald Fehr first got involved with the NHLPA I was very worried. As JDBoone says, his name is synonymous with work stoppage. A while back I read an article (I think DBSJ pointed me to it) that had an interesting take on Fehr.
First and foremost they focused on his professionalism. Fehr doesn’t make emotional decisions and he won’t get in to a pissing match between himself and Bettman. His job is to represent the players to the best of his abilities and he will do just that.
He’s also knowledgeable about these issues. He won’t be like many of the recent NHLPA heads who were quickly hired to a position well above their pay grade only to be ousted soon there after. Hopefully this will lead to him developing the trust of the players and the players realizing that when Fehr says this is the best deal the players can accept that and not carry animosity from the previous CBA negotiations in to the next negotiations.
Lastly, he’s not a hockey guy. He’s not bought in to the idea that players and management have to be adversarial. He won’t be slow to adapt because of preconceived notions. He won’t come in to these negotiations carrying baggage from the last 70 years (like Goodenow). He won’t spy on the players (like Saskin). He’s been working on the new constitution so he won’t get caught up in procedural issues (like Kelly). He’s already made his money so he shouldn’t be defrauding the PA (like Eagleson).
Either that, or he’ll gut the salary cap, teams will contract, and NHL jobs will be lost.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
Thanks for the credit!
Fehr is many things, but he is no fool. He will understand, perhaps better than his constituency, that a protracted lockout will cause teams to fold( You guys are fans of one of em) and ultimately cost his clients many jobs. He knows that this is not baseball, where despite competitive balance being destroyed , all teams are still in business.
It also helps that he is not a " Hockey " person because lets all face it, traditional " Hockey " people are….stoopid. They are more apt to answer a question with " Well, thats how its always been " instead of taking a new look at it. These are the people who would rather allow some obstruction back into the game to " slow it down " than have a headshot rule. Being outside of that box will greatly aid him in potentially achieving solutions otherwise unthought of. Also, you wont have Chris Chelios indirectly threatening the comish’s family this time either( That dude is such a Chicago guy).
Lastly, I think he is ( no pun intended ) feared like any good heel should be. The owners may have broken the old union, but they will think twice about playing the brand of absolute hardball they played in 04-05.
I don’t like the guy, but he is not the devil( that’s Scott Boras). He could be the right counter balance to ensure fair and prompt negotiations, which will ultimately be good for the game and the fans.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Aug 26, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s not bought in to the idea that players and management have to be adversarial. He won’t be slow to adapt because of preconceived notions.
Well said Doug and ‘Leaguer…however, remember this is the same person who caused baseball to skip the Postseason and World Series for the first time ever. Hockey is suffering and it doesn’t take a NASA engineer to figure that out. The players can posture and organize etc…but I don’t see them getting a better situtation than they currently have right now with partially guaranteed money for dead weight, free agency, and restricted free agency with offer sheets.
This is a dark day
I’d like to sound dispassionate, but I’m not. In hiring Fehr, the NHLPA has lost my sympathy. I would back the owners now in any dispute, even a multiyear lockout. If union and players’ association have a dispute, I will assume that the players’ association is at fault and has probably provoked it.
To put my attitude toward Fehr in context, with no desire to engage in a political discussion about the pros and cons of unionization, I want to say that I’m pro union in most circumstances. But Donald Fehr is the ultimate example of how to take the enlightenment out of self-interest and use a union to damage an industry beyond the possibility of full recovery.
Baseball was never the same after Fehr. It ceased to be the great American pastime. Absurdly empowered by Fehr, the players’ union went on to fight against testing for steroids. All that did was destroy the integrity of the game, render all modern records in the sport meaningless, and transform most of the top players from sports heroes into frauds against owners and fans. Fehr deserves more credit than anyone else for ruining one of the world’s major professional sports.
When the NHLPA hires Fehr, they state their willingness to destroy professional hockey if they don’t get their way. Fehr is a living, breathing ultimatum. The players’ association chose to put that ultimatum to work for them. Message sent and no doubt understood.
Fehr’s splendid “professionalism” inside the NHLPA offices may please Eric Cole, but it counts for nothing outside those offices.
Starting today, sports networks on this side of the Atlantic should begin negotiating rights to televise European and Russian pro hockey in North America when the NHL goes dark.
by curiouscanesfan on Aug 26, 2010 12:03 PM EDT reply actions
In hiring Fehr, the NHLPA has lost my sympathy. I would back the owners now in any dispute, even a multiyear lockout.
I don’t think you’ll have to worry about a multi-year lockout. If any lockout occurs it won’t be good for either side. If it lasts a season I doubt the league survives. A lot of teams can’t survive another lost year. What I hope happens is that everyone realizes the current agreement offers the best framework for keeping the most NHL jobs. If Fehr buys in to that then I think things will go well. If Fehr tries to drive a wedge between large market owners (Rangers, Leafs, Habs, Hawks) etc and the other owners the the league will fold. I’m holding out hope that Fehr is smart enough to realize what the league can and cannot support and doesn’t do that.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
Agreed
It seems that Hockey has a pretty fair system for both players, owners, and fans….Salary Cap tied to revenues (Owners) along with a salary floor and free agency along with some guaranteed contracts (Players)….Competitive balance maintained with Revenue Sharing(fans)
This is certainly a better model than football, baseball or basketball. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.
agreed, the current frameworks seems to work pretty good for the most part, it probably needs some tweaking. They need to do a better of defining contract structure (Kovy situation) and figure out what they are going to do with the Olypmics. I heard an interesting comment that I think I agree with: scrap the Olympics (keep it amateur or make it U-20) and bring back the world cup – try to adopt a model somewhat similar to what FIFA does with soccer.
Of course...
Soccer has what, 30 games in a season? Where would they find the time to participate in a proper world cup model? Or would normal NHL games count towards qualification? Just not clear how that would work…
by Raccoon Fink on Aug 26, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
if you include Champions League, National Team Commitments, and other league finals it’s probably closer to 50 games; they essentially start in August and play until May, which is a longer season than hockey. It would essentially work the same as the Canada Cup. Play it in the summer every four years (mid-July).
Oh c'mon
After 1995 baseball has enjoyed the longest period of labor piece since the end of the reserve clause. The MLBPA and MLB negotiated a couple of extensions without any labor stoppages at all. The business of baseball has never been better. You’re right that he was on the wrong side of the steroid issue, but it wasn’t his role to work for the best interest of the game.
This can only be good for the NHLPA and the only people who are unhappy about it I have to believe are people who would prefer an impotent NHLPA.
Check out more of my highlights at dailymotion.com/gatecitycanes
"wasn't his role to work for the best interest of the game"
The well-being of the players depends on the well-being of the game, and the health of the players depended on either removing steroid use from the game or at least bringing it under medical supervision.
“The business of baseball has never been better.”
I doubted that and didn’t find anything to back it up, though I don’t have much data to contest it either.
Check out the 2000 Blue Ribbon Report on Baseball Economics.
Quote:
Also distressing from an ownership standpoint are several other facts that are of less
concern to fans: 1) only three MLB clubs have operated profitably over the past five
years, despite the industry’s revenue growth; 2) club debt nearly quadrupled over
seven years, from $604 million in 1993 to $2.08 billion in 1999; and 3) appreciation in
MLB franchise values has not matched that in other major professional sports
leagues. (emphasis added)
That report was written when the economy was booming.
I couldn’t quickly find long-term attendance data, but did find this: “With Major League Baseball feeling the full weight of the recession and decreasing seating capacity in two new ballparks, the 2009 regular season ended with 73,418,529 in total attendance a decline of 6.58 percent..”
Not that it’s representative of anything, but I used to watch a lot of baseball and now watch bits of a few games per year. I used to know a lot of people who considered baseball their favorite sport and can’t think of one I know now who falls into that category. I think there has been a downgrade in the status of the sport.
by curiouscanesfan on Aug 26, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
appreciation in MLB franchise values has not matched that in other major professional sports leagues.
That’s because baseball started at the top of the money ladder and didn’t have much room for growth. It’s also because football has seen the prices of their franchise rise at a huge rate. Comparing the appreciation of franchises in one sport to another is a fools errand.
Is it possible to be addicted to hockey?
That's a 10-year old report
Baseball has maximized their new revenue streams with MLB Advanced Media and it’s marketing in addition to the enhanced revenue sharing that was implemented in the 2002 CBA. The Deadspin has started releasing leaked financials of teams and even terrible teams like Pittsburgh are profitable because of money received from the richer clubs and money it received from MLB for sales of it’s online and pay TV packages. Baseball has also broken it’s own attendance record a few times during the decade. It’s feeling the pinch now, but revenues are still much higher than they were even in the year 2000.
And if we’re throwing in personal anecdotes about our interest in baseball, I can say that even though I have a terrible team (Baltimore), I watch every single night. With all the ways to watch or listen to the game (TV, internet, mobile phones), I’m never out of touch with my team and baseball is still the most perfect, beautiful game. People who stopped watching baseball because of some short-term labor strife (which all the professional leagues have had and will continue to have) probably didn’t like baseball all that much in the first place.
Check out more of my highlights at dailymotion.com/gatecitycanes
Thanks for the link to Deadspin; follow-up questions about the O's
If you’re an avid Orioles’ fan, Heart, more power to you. That is no small accomplishment given the mostly sad years since their collapse after a string of brilliant successes from the 60s into the 80s. I used to love to watch the O’s, and especially to watch Jim Palmer pitch. He had a great fast ball, but the curve ball was amazing.
The stuff at Deadspin on baseball team finances is interesting but at first glance doesn’t exactly paint a clear picture of a thriving enterprise. It doesn’t paint a clear picture of a failing enterprise either. Just a weird picture. I clicked on one team’s finances. Pirates’ revenues were down even though payments from revenue sharing increased by $9 M. Profits were down $600,000, but the owners still managed to claim > $14 M in profits, about 10% of revenues. At a glance, it looks as though Pittsburgh ownership is a welfare case and yet its owners draw pretty big profits from the charity of others. Making millions in profits off welfare is nice work, I guess, if you can get it. But how does that work? Do the Yankees, Red Sox and a few other teams fund 20+ punching bags so that they can continue to generate huge revenues from their huge markets? Certainly somebody seems to be generating enough money to subsidize not just MLB’s cheap teams, but to increase the wealth of the cheap owners of those cheap teams. Why would anybody want to do that? It seems to me there’s a bit of an issue given that the Pirates have an atrocious team and their owners are not using any of that $14 M to make the team better. I grant that is wonderful if you own the Pirates, but how is that good for baseball or for fans? How does that make baseball a healthy sport?
Please don’t tell me PK’s secret financial statements show him pocketing $14 M annually from NHL subsidies while he cries poor and cuts player compensation.
But back to Fehr. Neither baseball’s finances nor my ceasing to be a baseball fan matters to the discussion of Fehr and the NHLPA. However well or badly off MLB is now, don’t you think baseball would have been better off without Fehr? The players needed a strong labor leader, but that didn’t require somebody so delighted to shut the game down and shield steroid use while pumped-up frauds set lifetime records without even trying.
Don’t you have any regrets about how Fehr affected baseball and, specifically, as an O’s fan, how his actions damaged the legacies of the Orioles’ greats? Doesn’t it bother you that Frank Robinson’s mere 586 honestly struck home runs are about the same as McGwire’s, behind Sosa’s, behind ARod’s, and 200 HRs behind Bonds?
Robinson was just below the greats like Aaron, Ruth and Mays until the frauds came along. In my book, Robinson BELONGS up there with those guys. He earned it.
The more recent names don’t belong. They cheated. That wiped out a generation of career accomplishments in what was one of my favorite sports. We know some of the cheats, but we’ll never get a complete accounting. None of the records of the last 20 years means anything. Records used to matter in baseball. When Maris was chasing Ruth, it mattered. When a pumped up Bonds was eclipsing Aaron and his godfather Willy Mays and blowing away Frank Robinson by 200+ home runs, that spoiled everything. For years. “The Hall of Famous Cheats” doesn’t have quite the same appeal as The Hall of Fame. Now baseball is forever the sport of asterisks.
As an O’s fan, do you seriously think Rafael Palmiero belongs in the record books with Frank Robinson, 200 HRs ahead of Boog Powell?
As an aside, I can’t help noticing that the decline of the O’s roughly coincided with the rise of steroids. Did the O’s collapse after the 80s because they couldn’t find enough pumped-up Palmieros to compete? Did they have too many prospects who were conscientious objectors, while the Yankees were happily signing Clemens, Giambi, ARod and a bunch of other high-priced cheats?
by curiouscanesfan on Aug 27, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
It is a welfare case
A handful of teams (Cubs, Dodgers, LAA, NYY and a couple of others I can’t remember) pay luxury taxes that keep crappy teams afloat. Pittsburgh is the biggest example. Between their payments from MLBAM and the revenue sharing, they are basically guaranteed to make money as long as they field a team with a low payroll. They have no incentive to win.
This is why, unlike 1994 when there were “hawkish” owners who were willing to chuck the post-season to break the union (you put all the blame for this on Fehr and the MLBPA, but clearly that was fight the baseball owners wanted as well – that’s why they withheld the pension contribution from the 1994 ASG), there are no hawkish owners now. No Reidsdorfs from the White Sox or McMorris from the Rockies doing any saber rattling about how the game is going broke. That’s because it isn’t. Revenue sharing is basically hush money to keep the small market owners quiet and continue to allow the large market teams to rake in dough from their RSNs and ticket sales without the hassle of a work stoppage just to get a salary cap that they, frankly, don’t want anyway.
I agree with you about the MLBPA’s slow reaction to steriods. Again, they weren’t the only ones late to the party. Selig wasn’t all that interested in dealing with it either before he and Fehr were dragged before congress. Fehr didn’t see the writing on the wall quick enough and I think history will rightly judge him for that. I don’t think that completely trashes his legacy as an advocate for union, though.
And it breaks my heart to see what the Steroid Era did to the record books. I grew up with the top 4 HR hitters being Aaron, Ruth, Mays and Robinson. Now the 500 HR club is going to be full of cheaters like Sosa, McGwire, Manny, ARod and Bonds. Honestly, it sucks.
And the Orioles got smeared in the Mitchell report as bad as any other team. Larry Bigbie befriended an FBI informant who ratted out Seugi, Roberts, Tejada, Hairston, Gibbons, Palmeiro and others. The Orioles just weren’t as aggressive in free agency because Angelos was gun shy after Albert Belle was diagnosed with a degenerative hip condition after signing a huge contract. We had to pay that guy for three years after he stopped playing (although insurance covered some of that). The Orioles had more than their share of cheaters. They just weren’t that good at it :)
Check out more of my highlights at dailymotion.com/gatecitycanes
Thanks for all the good info.
I did not mean to suggest that Fehr was solely responsible for baseball’s problems. I do think brinkmanship is his preferred weapon, he is too comfortable with pushing a sport over the brink, and he lacked any compunction about the consequences of the policies he pursued. He was good at getting what he wanted. In my opinion, he had poor judgment about what was in the best interests of the players he represented. He maximized player earnings and shielded players’ from testing. The interests he ignored were their health, their integrity, their personal reputations, and actual individual legal jeopardy that is still playing out in federal courts.
I have nothing good to say about Selig. I know at least some owners, like Magowan in San Francisco, were happy to rake in the dough and pretend they knew nothing about steroids.
The reason I blame Fehr even more than Selig for steroids is that I think Fehr is the one who blocked effective testing. Testing could be seen as an invasion of their privacy, but given all the steroid use, not testing forced many players to take steroids to remain competitive in their profession. That was not good for players’ health and, for some fans like me, it ruined the sport for the remainder of our lifetime.
I guess you could argue that the owners used Fehr’s intransigence on testing as an excuse to ignore an issue that they wanted to ignore anyway. It remains the case, in my opinion, that his intransigence was the primary reason that a steroid issue turned into a catastrophe (in my opinion) for the sport. It galled me that Bonds did what he did, but for a while I could think ARod was succeeding cleanly and provide a benchmark clean great player for this generation. It turned out ARod cheated. Ken Griffey jr may have been the only great clean player of his generation, but I’m not sure about him either. We’ll never know.
You can still enjoy watching the O’s. I can occasionally enjoy watching good baseball players making plays, but deeply miss seeing the competition between the current generation and earlier ones. That turned out to be a big part of what I enjoyed in baseball. Individual season and lifetime records in baseball, as it turns out, were important to my personal enjoyment of the game.
Regardless of how much any of these changes in baseball does or doesn’t affect you or me as individual fans, I don’t want Fehr anywhere near hockey. I can’t see anything good coming from Fehr’s sitting down opposite the owners. There has to be somebody better for the NHLPA and for hockey.
by curiouscanesfan on Aug 28, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
The Limits of Power
There is something inherently flawed about professional athletes and their legal representatives viewing the people that own their teams and pay their salaries as the enemy. It is a situation where both sides (ownership and players) have different perspectives; but ultimately neither one can exist without the other. It is also beyond imagination that an NHL owner would willingly agree to any CBA version that threatened the survival of his team. Maybe Fehr is the right person for the job. He is experienced in player relations. I also realize that the pool of experienced candidates is limited.
Still, I am skeptical that Fehr has the kind of personality that understands at a profound level the limits of his power and of the NHLPA’s power. Any negotiation premised on the invincibility of the NHLPA is a recipe for disaster. In selecting Fehr as the nominee, the NHLPA’s executive committee took a high-risk, moderate reward candidate. The best Fehr can do is within a moderate margin; but the potential damage he can inflict on the NHLPA is enormous. I always adhered to the notion the high-risk had to be met with high reward for the high-risk alternative to make sense.
Symbiotic Relationship. Results depend on Fehrs’ ability to compromise and listen to what others think.
by PittsburghCaniac on Aug 27, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
THN Article: 4 CHL Teams to watch
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/34869-The-Straight-Edge-Four-CHL-teams-to-watch-in-201011.html
Kitchener Rangers listed, no mention of Jeff Skinner though. I’m thinking Skinner forces his way onto the Canes this year, but if he does go back to the Juniors at least he will be on a Memorial Cup favorite team.
Return to Sender
I honestly believe that no matter how razzle-dazzle Skinner looks during training camp and the pre-season, that returning him the the Kitchener Rangers for first-line, PP, and whatever other duties they want to pile on his plate, would be the best course of action for this talented 18-year-old kid.
We already have more prospects that we need to thoroughly evaluate than we have NHL slots to do so and a limited amount of salary budget to do so.
Plus, there goes a year off his RFA eligibility and there’s no AHL option whatsoever, due to him being under 20 years of age.
It’s going to take a lot of discipline to turn loose of something so bright and shiny, but it would be the best course of action, in my opinion, no matter how good he appears to be.
After all, we’re not going to win the Cup this season, so let’s set things up for the long haul.
Here we are now...entertain us.
He’s arguably our best prospect… He obviously has the scoring ability to score in the NHL, I don’t think anyone doubts that, and his biggest knock was his skating. If he worked all Summer with Gary Roberts and improved his power skating… He is going to be downright dangerous. Obviously some things would have to change in our top-6 (trades?), but I think the Canes are ready to give Skinner the shot if he proves himself in preseason/regular season. He would probably have to go about a ppg pace, but I also think that is doable.
Cory had McBain edging out Skinner. But, the vote among the posters over at HockeyFutures was very close, with Skinner edging out McBain as indeed being our top prospect (even though totally untested at this point in time, would say Cory, I’m sure).
But, it’s because he’s so valuable that all precautions should be taken. Is he really ready to take on the Chris Pronger’s of the NHL?
Clearly he could be on our roster.
My concerns focus more on the should aspect.
Other than our entertainment, what’s the point?
Here we are now...entertain us.
I will say that I think he is as ready as Taylor Hall is. Is any Rookie forward really ready to take on Chris Pronger or Zdeno Chara? Likely not. I guess I’m being selfish as I was factoring in my entertainment value haha. He is pretty filled out for his frame already which is a big plus for his chances, obviously we are shooting in the dark here. Killing time until we can actually see if he is ready in training camp and pre-season. 26 days till Canes vs. Panthers, sigh.
There is no doubt that spending some time in the minors could be beneficial to Skinner, but, given the youth of this team, I would not be surprised if he made the team. In a perfect world, we would have just won the cup, and he would have no chance; here, not sure what they will do – but I trust JR and team in doing the right thing for both him, and the franchise. If his presence puts butts in chairs…which we desparately need right now, then by all means, place him in the lineup and have him do a triple axle while the national anthem is sung :)
by PittsburghCaniac on Aug 27, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Not a good choice, IMO
I don’t follow MLB so I am not very familiar with Fehr, but I do not think that the NHLPA needs someone like him. The last time NHLPA got tough the entire season was lost and they still did not get rid of salary cap which the players were fighting tooth and nail. I fear more damage to hockey with Fehr at helm. Hockey teams have smaller budgets than other pro sports and if the owners are losing money they are quite content to work stoppage, after all they are not losing money, while players on the other hand are without work and not earning salaries.
While I generally support unions, sport unions seem to only fight for top 5% of the players, while the interests of lesser players are overlooked. Hockey needs a smart negotiator not a tough guy willing to sacrifice a season.
I am concerned he is out to make a statement rather than find solutions to difficult problems in which no side is 100% right and no side is 100% wrong.
Let me caveat my comments by saying I’m not familiar with Fehr’s previous role with MLB.
Doug, help me understand what you mean when you make the above comment. Are you saying that you think Fehr is more concerned with his image that with his role with the NHLPA?
From my admittedly naive and limited view, it seems to me that the NHLPA needs two things:
1. Organization
2. Minor tweaks and hole-plugging to what seems to me to be a relatively well-working CBA
Detractors, are you all saying you think Fehr has a different agenda? And if so, why? Doesn’t his image stand to take a huge hit if there’s another work stoppage?
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
Fehr and the Open Issues about his Approach
Fehr during the MLB negotiations was astonishingly aggressive, to the point that the World Series wound up being canceled. The long-term effects of the strike included the ability of teams like the Yankees and the Red Sox to so outspend smaller market teams that the advantages to the Yankees and Red Sox were overwhelming. My concern with Fehr is that he is a person wired to think about negotiations as situations in which there is a defined winner and a defined loser. The MLB players have far more leverage than the NHLPA if only because MLB is so woven into the fabric of American society.
I think there is a risk that Fehr’s personality makes him a litigator who is a slash & burn litigator; and that he will take much greater risks with the negotiations than some other people/attorneys might take. There are potential advantages to having Fehr because it does signal a strong personality is at the helm of the NHLPA. What I don’t know is whether Fehr has the wisdom to go along with his forceful personality. I am assessing the risks of his failure to negotiate another CBA. My best guess is that his approach has only a 50-50 chance of success in avoiding a work stoppage. Because I think the CBA is not inherently flawed, and instead needs some tweaking here and there, I personally think Fehr is a bad choice. I believe the risk he will over-play his hand outweighs the advantages of his intense intellect and strong will. As I see the situation, the NHLPA needed a person with gravitas but who ultimately was a peacemaker rather than a warrior.
Aggressive yes, idiotic no. He is dealing with the only ownership who has shown a willingness to use the nuclear option of canceling a season. He will take that into account.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Aug 27, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
When you look at how things evolved in baseball, Fehr appears to have viewed his role as maximizing the power of the players without regard to their welfare. There was clearly a huge, huge issue with players taking performance-enhancing drugs. That trend harmed players financially who didn’t take the drugs, increasing pressure on them to take drugs, and jeopardized the health of players who did take the drugs. None of that seemed to matter to Fehr—all he cared about was not allowing owners to place any restraints on player behavior. The result was an epidemic of steroid use. Was Fehr acting in rhe best interest of the players? He acted to maximize their power but in so doing harmed players and ensured that the integrity of the game would be destroyed. Did that matter? Well, among other things, it ruined the Baseball Hall of Fame. Barry Bonds broke all the home-run records by cheating, taking illegal drugs and then likely committing perjury to cover it up. Does Bonds deserve to be exalted above Babe Ruth? Roger Clemens will be arraigned on perjury charges Monday for denying under oath that he took steroids and human growth hormone. Does he deserve to be in the Baseball Hall of Fame along with pitching greats like Cy Young and Sandy Koufax?
Imagine the current state of hockey if a strike canceled the Stanley Cup championship series and good drugged-up players were routinely scoring 100 goals per season and getting gigantic salaries while the best clean players were underpaid and perceived as mediocrities. The true greats of hockey would look mediocre next to a sudden generation of drug-induced superstardom. I think that would matter.
If history is a guide, Donald Fehr only cares about his ability to use such calamities as threats to prevail in negotiations. The history of the game? Not his problem. The integrity of the game? Not his problem. The health of the players? Not his problem. Fairness to players who don’t want to take dangerous drugs? Not his problem.
Fehr negotiated fiercely on behalf of the players and yet, in my view, still managed to harm the players he represented. AD will have to clarify whether Fehr’s approach to negotiations would be considered ethical in the legal profession. Certainly he maximized outcomes for players in some dimensions. He allowed the players who benefited the most from steroids to earn immense salaries and temporary fame.
But can you really ignore the fact that Fehr helped bring about an epidemic of illegal drug-taking that became a public-health issue?
The ripple effects were huge. The cost to the steroid stars was serious legal jeopardy and permanent infamy. Roger Clemens may go to prison because he made the foolish decision to defend his reputation as a great player by lying under oath. Barry Bonds has doubtless spent millions on legal fees trying to avoid trial for perjury. Both made huge money, but are these outcomes in their best interests? Could the players have acted differently? Yes. Is it Fehr’s fault that they didn’t? Strictly speaking, no. And yet I think Clemens and Bonds are behaving predictably in the circumstances. They don’t want to be banned from the Hall of Fame after spending years setting records in a sport to which they devoted their lives and for which they jeopardized their health.
Amidst all the record-setting, there was growing evidence of the spread of steroid use among young athletes. Growing outrage in legislative bodies was based in substantial measure on concern about the pressure on teenage athletes to take illegal drugs that jeopardize their health. College scholarships and professional contracts were at stake. If you didn’t hit 400-foot homeruns and throw a 98 mph fastball, you weren’t going to get a big professional contract. Suddenly, it was common to throw the baseball as hard as the very best prospects of previous years. Pressure on kids to take the drugs was enormous and it went all the way up the chain. Stuck in the minors? Go to Mexico for steroids and get promoted to the major leagues. Having an OK career like Jason Giambi, with a good average but not so much power? Take steroids, become a power hitter, and make millions.
Perhaps concerns about a steroid epidemic weren’t Fehr’s responsibility as a paid advocate of a players’ association, but his approach to negotiations, and willingness to thumb his nose at owners and legislators, certainly helped increase illegal drug-taking, magnify a public health issue, inspire a legal crackdown, place members of his union in legal jeopardy, and harm major institutions in a major sport.
Why would the NHLPA hire this guy? His reputation taints theirs. But he is the ultimate threat.
by curiouscanesfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
With all the tenacity, perspective and judgment you expect in that type of canine.
by curiouscanesfan on Aug 27, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. Given his history, it’s a tough argument to claim this guy is good for hockey – kinda wish he would go to the NBA; if he were to destroy that league they may televise more hockey.
by PittsburghCaniac on Aug 27, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
My Take on Fehr
Is that as as Cole said…the whole NHLPA needs to get it’s act together as a whole…from the players reps to the Front office staff…This fan about died when the last lockout occured…and with the economy as itvpresently is, and as "fragile’ as it is…EVRYBODY in the NHL Loses…we all here can and do agree there are some issues the PLayers over do have…many of the owners do knoe what 90% of those “concerns” are…and YES Fehr did push the MLB to places it needed to be and rock the boat short of tipping the dang thing over…the NHL agaon nor the NHLPA can afford such a type of talks or deal making…while i agree with what our "resident’ legal eagle AD has stated, yet I’d hope that AD and many who think and feel like he does will give Mr.Fehr the benifit of the doubt…as of this very moment, he has NOT been offically hired…all of the hub bub of him possibly coming could,would or might be a "ploy’ or tactic to get the NHL in a mind set to sit down with open minds with a sence of fair play…as and agin with the enitre North American economy being as fragile as it is even though Canada’s is a wee bit better off than the USA is…But just the mere idwa or hint of a bull dog go for the throat sit down sessions makes this fan rathwr nervous…as in reality…there is NOTHING but air to keep what happend just a few years ago form happening again is there ? With the rash of one year signings…all over the league…shows and proves my point..even teams who do have a better bottom line 7 cap space aren’t rushing to sign dead grandmas to long term deals…i even think if the Great One type of player who was now a free agent would have just as hard of a time getting a long term deal as mr. k from the devils is…do we the fans need such things ? I don’t think so…but i’m just a fan,what would i know ??
And if it Aint Hockey,It Aint Nothin !!
That Checkers 3rd Sweater ROCKS !!!
Other problems with Fehr
Everyone always mentions the work stoppage and steriods with Fehr. The problems that have occurred with MLB, and which he helped cause, are much deeper, though certainly the steroid scandal permanently marred the game.
As AD mentioned, already the interests of the NHL rank-and-file players and the superstars are increasingly diverging. But what does the PA do? It protests the Kovalchuk contract, which would have harmed the interests of the majority of current and future Devil players.
Under Donald Fehr’s reign, this divergence has been even more pronounced, with huge numbers of players making the league minimum. As for this stuff about the Pittsburgh Pirates making money, they are only making money because their payroll is a fraction of teams like the Yankees and Red Sox. So, you end up with haves and have-nots in MLB.
What Fehr would recognize, as the NHLPA head, is that teams like Toronto, Montreal, Detroit and the Rangers, are willing to pay far more than the current salary cap. That’s where the money is to boost overall pay. To placate the Carolinas of the world, he’ll push for a luxury tax, which will sound real good in down economy.
Problem is, you’ll end up with haves and have-nots just like with MLB.
Haves and Have Nots
The MLB has a joke of a system in which the wealthy teams beat up unmercifully on the smaller market teams. The same teams compete year after year for the final rounds of the playoffs; and the games are often wretched to watch. With the NHL CBA, the wealthier teams have an advantage, but they don’t have cakewalks to the conference finals.
bq. Problem is, you’ll end up with haves and have-nots just like with MLB.
scoop10 is absolutely correct, with the MLB, the haves make a mockery of a level playing field. It would be a travesty and potentially the end of the NHL as we know it for the wealthier teams to gain equivalent advantages as the wealthy MLB teams.
Haves and Have Nots with Block Quotes as intended
The MLB has a joke of a system in which the wealthy teams beat up unmercifully on the smaller market teams. The same teams compete year after year for the final rounds of the playoffs; and the games are often wretched to watch. With the NHL CBA, the wealthier teams have an advantage, but they don’t have cakewalks to the conference finals.
bq. Problem is, you’ll end up with haves and have-nots just like with MLB. bq.
scoop10 is absolutely correct, with the MLB, the haves make a mockery of a level playing field. It would be a travesty and potentially the end of the NHL as we know it for the wealthier teams to gain equivalent advantages as the wealthy MLB teams.
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