Panthers 4, Hurricanes 1, Preseason Game One
by Bob Wage on Sep 22, 2010 12:26 AM EDT
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PrintThe Florida Panthers jumped out to a 3-0 lead within the first six minutes of the contest, then held on from there to defeat the Carolina Hurricanes, 4-1 in a preseason game on Tuesday night at the RBC. It was a tentative, nervous start for the youth of Carolina but there were positive moments to build on in the game.
Newly signed Patrick O`Sullivan played well and was named the game's second star. Known more for his offense, O'Sullivan was playing on the penalty kill when he found himself in a two-on-one break with defenseman Anton Babchuk. He froze the goalie and then fed Babchuk, (whom he said was yelling for the puck), a perfect pass. The blueliner buried the shot, giving the Canes their only goal of the night.
The Canes came close a few other times but were unable to get the puck past the Florida netminders.
Quick stats:
- The Canes outshot the Panthers 34-24 and were led by Jerome Samson and Drayson Bowman who had 4 shots each.
- The team only won 38% of their faceoffs, but Zac Dalpe was 6 for 8 and had a team best 78%.
- Casey Borer played a physical game and also led the club with 4 blocked shots. Jay Harrison and Anton Babchuk had 3 each.
- Drayson Bowman had a team high 5 hits.
The Canes go back to practice on Wednesday, then will play three exhibition games in a row starting Thursday night in Nashville. Cory will have more about this game with another article later Wednesday morning.
(The following is a post-game interview with Patrick O'Sullivan).
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Underwhelming
Wasn’t very entertaining, but I was there with coach’s eyes, anyway.
If I had only this game as data, and no other data was forthcoming before the season begins:
- Skinner is returned to Kitchener (remember, no more forthcoming data before the season begins). Well, okay, I certainly would play him all or part of the nine NHL games I paid for, but I think he needs a year tearing up the juniors and working on the strength/size before debuting in the NHL. Too easy to knock off the puck and ouch, those faceoffs need work, and work needs time.
- Dalpe is probably my third-line center, and I’ll give him veteran help on the wings until he becomes settled enough to try winger experiments with him and/or move a prospect onto the line in place of one of the vets
- I’m finding a spot for O’Sullivan somewhere in the top-nine.
- I’m thanking my lucky stars I’ve got a kid like McBain to anchor my defense for the foreseeable future.
- Nash needs time in the AHL, but I’m intrigued
- Man, that Sanguinetti kid is fast
- Same ‘ole Babchuk…something good, something bad…but, he does look stronger and moves faster. The Babchuk Project continues, with Tom Rowe’s bonus on the line. :-D
- Good boy, Gleason. Two times you wanted to just smack their face (and would have done so in the past). But, they’re just not worth your loss…and they know it. I’m sure you were under orders…but that’s never seemed to necessarily stop you before. :-D
- Cam, I know they’re riding you on the fan boards, but, heck, even I can score on you if you let me shoot point-blank from the slot. There’s just not enough of you to cover 24 square feet of net, nor reactions quick enough to stop pucks fired at the holes from range that close. Tough stretch there with fourth line and third pairing on the ice. Better luck next time.
Here we are now...entertain us.
100%
EXACTLY what I thought. O’Sullivan, Dalpe, McBain, and Samson were the only people who showed up to play (I thought).
Skinner fell down about 6 times which makes me think his size is an issue (or maybe nerves).
by chrisbrasfield on Sep 22, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess one could.....
say that Mo & the bench did see what was shown to them. And Rosie,Gleason & Ruutu all did a good job leading by example…during the "scrum. even skinner got in the mix putting himself between some of the florida players and the back of Rosie & Tim…Not a positive or good start, and 5600 or so fans in the seats…this fan as well as Mo & Company see the need of improvement. what will worry me is the next 3 games in 3 days…players like Samson,Osla,Terry & Bowman will feel the burn as they will need to step it up a notch…but this is the time to seperate the weeds from the grass now isn’t it??
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Last Night
I was both interested and entertained by the game. I was not disappointed at all by the over all effort on the team. I had hoped, however, for musical chairs in reconstituting the forward lines. When I saw the lines, I thought it was going to be a long night for the Canes. It seemed to me the Hurricanes coaches were creating lines to focus on Skinner, Dalpe, Nash, and Matsumoto. As a result, I doubted the lines were going to run smoothly in terms of team play. The play was surprisingly sloppy; and the choppy ice played a role.
After thinking about the game this morning, I was perhaps most disappointed in Cam Ward – even though he was clearly, as Cory has mentioned, hung out to dry. Still, he was far from stellar; and with all the youth on the team, I really felt Ward needed to man up for this game and to be the best player on the ice. I continue to doubt that Harrison can be an effective NHL defender on a regular basis. I thought he was by far the worst defender on the ice last night. I also thought he made passes that were all but impossible to control and that didn’t help the forwards at all. I am missing something because the Canes brain trust seems to be committed to Harrison; but I know I don’t get it. On the other hand, Babchuk had one glaring defensive mistake; but he was faster and much more physical than he was when he was last with the Canes.
Sanguinetti has blazing speed and quickness; and also has very soft hands. His decision making was not perfection personified; but he did fine. McBain struggled with the bad ice; but he was also much more physical than last year. Gleason was his usual competitive, no nonsense self; and I appreciated the fact he demonstrated self control and didn’t risk hurting his hands in a meaningless fight. I do look forward, however, to the regular season games against Florida. I doubt some of the Panthers are going to have an enjoyable evening with the Canes.
Borer is improving from last night; and is starting to return to the form that he had before his neck injury. He still has a ways to go; but the progress is obvious. Pogge played fine, all things considered. I suspect Barrasso will be able to help him regain confidence and improve his timing for going into the butterfly.
O’Sullivan was impressive. He continues to dazzle with his quick hands and offensive creativity. He also did not opt for a passive defense and was working hard for the puck. He is not going to be mistaken at any point for Ruutu; but he could be a candidate for wing on the first line with Staal. I would love to see how O’Sullivan/Staal/Jokinen, O’Sullivan/Staal/Ruutu and O’Sullivan/Staal/Cole might work out.
None of the forward lines seemed to be in sync the entire night. I liked what I saw of Skinner; and particularly the fact he continued to battle well after the outcome was no longer in doubt. He showed his youth at times, but he also showed an impressive combination of skill, quickness, strength and heart. I liked Boychuk’s improved explosiveness and as always he battled all night long. I really disliked the Boychuk/Matsumoto/Samson line and thought they never had cohesiveness. I’d like to see more of Matsumoto in particular. He was great when I saw him in the AHL; and he seemed to be jumpy with the puck last night. I believe he’ll settle down.
I really had hoped that LaRose would take over the game in terms of a clutch goal; and his legs never really got moving. I realize it’s pre-season and truly a teaching lesson rather than a meaningful game. On the other hand, with LaRose coming out a disastrous year in 2009-2010, and with so much leadership on his back, I had my fingers crossed he would put on one of his LaRose Show games. Ruutu was fine, but obviously was told to tone it down for the pre-season. Ruutu does his best work when he is on the edge of control, slamming and banging, so I didn’t imagine he would be the star of the night last night. I also thought his timing would likely be somewhat rusty after coming back from shoulder surgery.
I liked Bowman’s game. I am convinced he realizes he can earn a spot on the team if he becomes a more physical forward who uses size and speed not only to work to score goals but to hit. He looked to me like a slightly less fanatical version of Ruutu. Bowman was finishing checks all night long; and was accelerating into the hits rather than pulling back. There is no doubting either the fact he has an NHL quality shot.
Dalpe did seem nervous, which is understandable, but is not really in Dalpe’s nature. Dalpe seems to have an air of calm about him as plays. He has a quick mind and quick reactions so he is usually ahead of the play mentally. Dalpe has tremendous skill and mentally he is as resilient as any Canes player I’ve seen. It was his first game in the RBC as a Canes; and he didn’t have the game of his life. I did see flashes of his skills. In one shift, he put on the afterburners and blew past the defense as if they were standing still, he got a great shot off that exploded off his stick.
Nash was solid; and is going to be excellent as he develops. Nash strikes me as a somewhat cerebral player; and he didn’t seem particularly nervous. I do think he is continuing to adjust to the speed of the pro game. He also showed some flashes of real talent; and in particular he has excellent hands. He had some passes that demonstrated the excellent field of vision that Francis described.
Kostopoulos was surprisingly invisible on the ice last night. Maybe he too was told to tone it down; and Kostopoulos lacks that upper tier talent to be much of a factor unless he is flying around the ice being a menace. I didn’t like at all having Kostopoulos with Dalpe and O’Sullivan. It much preferred to see Boychuk/Dalpe/Bowman or Boychuk/Dalpe/O’Sullivan. All I could figure is that coaches didn’t want to put young centers on lines with players they knew well in order to tell how the centers would do on their own. Perhaps it was thrown all four centers in the ocean to see who swims and who drowns. Dwyer did not have the game of his life either. Usually Dwyer is one player who is always one of the fastest players on the ice. He was showcased in some ways by being placed with LaRose and Skinner. He didn’t seem to be on his best game; and given the NHL games he had under his belt that surprised me a little.
One thing I noticed immediately when the Canes took the ice is that as a whole the team is taller and faster than they were at the start of 2009-2010. Gone are the grey beards with anchors for skates – Yelle, A. Ward, and Wallin, for example. What I also continue to worry about is the contrast between the Panthers’ size at forward in terms of big bodied forwards who hover around the net and screened Cam Ward all night and the lack of even one truly freight train sized forward for the Hurricanes. The Hurricanes had net traffic and there was a consistent commitment to get to the net; but the Hurricanes were much less effective blocking the Panthers’ goalies vision than were the Panthers in generating screens of Ward and Pogge. As such, if I were king, I’d be working non-stop with Osala and J. Staal to see if they could get their skill sets developed to the point they could serve that role.
To me, it was more a coaching clinic than a fully fleshed out game. I can’t imagine that if Maurice/Francis were really trying to win that game rather than sort out who is likely to stick on the team that they’d have started out with those lines; and certainly they would have adjusted their forwards lines to get the most efficient matchups.
Thanks for the highly specific observations, AD. I admire your keen eye and capacity for dispassionate analysis after witnessing The Tuesday Night Massacre.
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
How in the world could you praise Bowman or Borer, and to a lesser extent, Nash?
Bowman was out of position all night, waited too long to get rid of the puck, and couldn’t help but send pucks to the feet of his intended targets. Borer got turned around so many times at the blue line that I thought he was practicing his toe loops to make Skinner jealous. Nash was invisible, which given how poor the team played last night isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but he didn’t do anything to differentiate himself for the rest of the players. Outside of O’Sullivan all the new faces looked completely overmatched by the Panthers, a team with poor depth in the system and projected to finish near the bottom of the conference.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Agreed, it’s tough to know where to start, other than Sully, LaRose, and Gleason everyone looked pretty awful. McBain, Borer, Boychuk, and Bowman looked especially lost.
I liked the physicality that McBain brought last night, but he seemed so focused on that aspect that he forgot to do what he does best. If McBain could add some physicality to his game that would be great for the team, but not if it limits his ability to contribute in other facets of the game.
As for Borer, I was wondering last night if he isn’t/shouldn’t be done with Hockey. I like Borer, and pre-broken neck I think he could have been a good third pair or even second pair fill in guy. That said, he looked worse last night than he did the end of last season.
I’m still trying to take last night with a grain of salt. I’m not buying in to the hype and I’m not buying in to the hate from last night. It was a lot of guys that had never played together and it was early in pre-season. That said, there are spots open and guys with two way contracts. You’d figure a few people would be motivated by the money if nothing else.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
McBain should just do what he good at: separate guys from the puck, make good 1st passes, and hit the net – the PP shot where he missed the net and it ended up being a breakout pass for FLA can’t happen. Sanguinetti looked good, he made good breakout passes, Babchuk’s same old Babchuk. Borer should keep playing, once you stop it’s over and maybe he’ll find his game. Based on what I saw last night, he belong in the AHL right now. Gudbranson was really impressive.
Gudbranson was really impressive.
Yes he was. And not just the goal. He was physical. He’s the one player who I was able to watch on Florida because he seemed to keep inserting himself into the play at the right time. He didn’t try to do too much. He let the game flow and when he could control it, he did.
I did like Sanguinetti’s speed, but he didn’t impress overall. Again, maybe not disappointing last night is a measure of success the same way not laying off workers in 2009 was a measure of success for business. Jury’s still out on him for me.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
My only hope is that last night kind of dampens some of the expectations laid at Skinner’s feet. I got the feeling from reading some of the posts around here that people were putting this kid on the roster for 82 games 20 goals………
I still think that if Skinner stays in the NHL this season, he will score 20 goals. BUT, I have said and still believe he will be returned to Juniors to develop more.
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by PackPride17 on Sep 22, 2010 9:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t read as much into last night’s game as anything. The way I see it, it was more of a learning experience, as well as a chance for the coaches to see what these kids can do with their first game under their belt now. Besides, I remember reading somewhere that they wanted to show off the rookies in front of the home crowd to get them more familiar with the fans anyways. I expect a much different lineup come Thursday.
As far as the scoring…looking back on last year, Ruutu was the highest returning scorer on the ice (7th), and you also had LaRose (9th), TKO (10th), and Gleason (12th). I didn’t imagine they’d light up the scoreboard. I took it as more of a chance to get these guys on the ice and see what how they responded.
As far as Cam goes…I’m HOPING it’s the fact that he kinda just slept on this game. Seems like once the game settled in, and the kids settled in as well, so did he.
I’d not sound the fire alarms until Thursday at least ;)
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Mysterious Ways of Paul Maurice
This will be very unpopular and is likely unfair based on having seen halting delayed video of a single preseason game, but my misgivings are already so strong that I’m going to put them out there. Feel free to tell me what follows is just a reflection of prior distaste for Paul Maurice’s approach, is an overreaction to a single meaningless preseason game, etc. But also note that the main evidence for my conclusions comes from a) the way the Canes played last night and b) the block quotes from Paul Maurice himself.
It’s mind-boggling that Paul Maurice is proud of last night’s display of his own coaching brilliance.
The Canes have a handful of games to get ready for the season and to decide which of numerous prospects will make the team. The head coach choosing the squad is proud of having used the first few practices to take the legs out from under almost everybody, even a vet conditioning zealot like Chad LaRose.
“Team-wide, expecially in the first period, we didn’t skate very well,” said coach Paul Maurice, who said he could sense an overall level of nervousness in the locker room even before the game started. “I didn’t expect we would. If we come out flying here then I haven’t pushed these guys nearly hard enough in the first three days.
“Chad LaRose is always my barometer to where our legs are at, and he said he was feeling his legs in the first period,” the coach added. “If he is, then everybody is.”
Comments on CC last night included things like, “McBain looks out of it,” “Boychuk very quiet tonight,” “Bowman’s seeming a little out of sorts tonight,” “Ugh,” “Ouch,” “Rough start,” “They are bringing me down,” “No one standing out,” “No one going to the net,” “Nobody winning the puck.” This was a massive, team-wide failure from a bunch of young, talented players who should be bursting with energy and giving their all to win a job.
*Maurice didn’t expect the team to come out flying." If this team doesn’t fly, it dies. It’s not going to overpower anybody.
Why is Maurice so satisfied about treating Canes’ fans to an appalling first preseason game where the other teams prospects made the Canes look as though they were skating through cement?
It’s a credit to O’Sullivan that he could play well under the circumstances, a credit to Dalpe that he could win some face-offs, to Babchuk that he could show some offensive skills, to Sanguinetti that he could fly despite everything, and to Bowman that he was hitting more than last year. All the same, it’s hard to understand how a head coach of a team in the Canes’ current situation, with a fan base dying to see whether the top prospects offer any hope for this season, would be proud of having shut down the skills of his own team and opened the preseason with a disgusting first-period collapse that had die-hard Canes’ fans moaning, “Ugh,” “Ouch,” “Out of it.”
Last year’s preseason failed to get the team ready because it was deliberately shortened and all jobs were filled so there was no competition. The simple-minded reaction this year is to have a far more demanding preseason and lots of competition, but competition focused on puck battles and players’ ability to survive practices so long and rigorous that they appear to have excluded skill as a factor in the few precious preseason games. Cole and Samsonov are already missing practices. The young Canes who are supposed to be able to fly as well as the vets who are superbly conditioned can’t move. This isn’t “one who can’t move” as in “Send in the Clowns.” This is nobody can move as in Sondheim’s unpublished hit, “Send in the Undertakers.”
What has this proved? How has it benefited the Canes as a team? How many season tickets will be bought today?
Yeah, it’s early, but a first hypothesis based on last night’s game is that this coach can find more than one way to send a team down a rathole. You can do it with an old worn-out team or a young, small team that will live and die by speed and yet comes out slow. After last night, which seems more likely: a .500 record in the first month of the season, or another 14 game winless streak?
There was one rookie last night who didn’t disappoint: Gudbranson. Perhaps that’s because the Panthers didn’t think the best way to determine whether he can make their team is to incapacitate him.
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 8:28 AM EDT reply actions
I would offer a different perspective. I think the goal of the pre-season is to prepare the team to win in the regular season. If the goal were to put the most competitive team on the ice and to entertain the fans in the pre-season, I totally agree Maurice took the wrong approach. I also realize it was a painful experience for many fans. My wife is a very avid hockey/Canes fan. She was very, very displeased with the game and felt it was incredibly sloppy. In fact for the first time I can recall, she was questioning whether she wanted to leave early; so I feel curiouscanesfan’s pain.
On the other hand, what the Hurricanes coaching staff really needs to find out and find out soon is which of the talented young players can play with speed and conviction when their legs are dead. The third and fourth line center positions in particular are critical spots for the Hurricanes. The coaching staff really needs to test Skinner to see if even though he is only 18 years old he is ready for the NHL. Similarly, Dalpe, Nash, and Matsumoto need to be tested early to see how they respond to the challenge of the NHL grind. One way to get that information is to put them under pressure; and what better way to build pressure than to put them before an avid fan base for their first home game and then do so under the challenge of very tired legs.
Under that crucible, O’Sullivan did the best of the forwards in prevailing. Boychuk, based on speed and aggressiveness, did fine. Bowman did fine in terms of speed, hitting, and shooting. Skinner did fine in terms of relentless battles around the net and for the puck. Dalpe battled through his tired legs and had some very fine plays. Sanguinetti showed his speed and quickness and good hands. Babchuk showed some speed and hands on his 2 on 1 and showed some defensive weakness on one Florida goal.
In short, it was a test. Some players passed that test with flying colors. Other players let their nerves overcome them for one game. I’d rather find out know and see for myself now which players can muster the will to prevail when part of their body just doesn’t want to go; and seeing those players who keep their energy level high and their hockey enthusiasm high under these challenging conditions speaks volumes to me. I am willing to watch some very sloppy pre-season hockey to see for myself which players can will themselves down the ice at full tilt when their legs are begging for them to stop.
Last night’s game had nothing to do with who won or lost, or even what the score was.
Instead, it was all about road-testing prospects under true game conditions where you’re not hitting your teammate, but some other guy you’ve never seen before.
We’re just evaluating the horseflesh and seeing how these guys react to NHL speed and NHL hits.
Yeah, you hate to get scored upon, but the lineup was not chosen to win the game. It was chosen for evaluation purposes.
Here we are now...entertain us.
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by Jamie Kellner on Sep 22, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
hows the evaluation on cam ward coming?
by ECUCanesFan on Sep 22, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Last night for those 6 minutes-not great. For the rest of the time he played-decent. Pretty much like every other person wearing red.
One game does not a goaltender (or any other player for that matter) make, certainly not a pre-season one with a lineup built for evaluation and not winning.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
Did the reversal in the SOG from the Ward-half to the Pogge-half mean anything? I’ll also note that other than Chad LaRose, Mo had the new kids out there for a lot more TOI than the vets (TKO, Ruu, and Gleason most notably were down the list compared to a regular season game).
It sounds to me a bit like the Trav City tournament – they gave up 2 goals quick in the first 10 minutes there of game 1, and played shut out hockey for the next 100+ minutes.
Hockeymom’s thoughts on Skinner: I can’t imagine how crazy it was for those kids (Dalpe, Skinner, Nash in particular) who had never been to a game in Raleigh (never played an NHL-level game) to come out to Rock me like a Hurricane w/lights and the size of the arena. And after watching Skinner sign the contract (a lifelong aspiration which required tremendous effort and sacrifice, with emotions underneath a bit like what we saw from Peters after his first game in January on Long Island ) knowing he had to make his Carolina debut less than 7 hours. Combine that with seeing (entertaining) his parents (he’s only 18!) for the first time in a while, and in this context. He strikes me as a kid who doesn’t want to disappoint – a lot of pressure there. How the hell was he supposed to be at his best? I know he’s exceptionally focused, but that’s some pretty big stuff to be sorting through in a very short amount of time. And he’s not a robot, which is what we all like; I can’t imagine how overwhelmed he was. I’m suspending all judgment on Skinner from just that 15 minutes of icetime. My .02.
Wrote this and then found the post-game audio w/Skinner. (<1 minute) It was a long day for him.
The vets will go to Nashville, and many of these same kids will play Friday night against
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by Carolyn Christians on Sep 22, 2010 8:59 AM EDT reply actions
those kids were probably thinking “I’ve never seen so many empty seats, we probably have more people show up to our practices”.
Ha! You’re probably right. Mass confusion through and through.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Sep 22, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Good observations on all that Skinner had to deal with last night, but he was hardly the only one to disappoint. You’re right to suspend judgment on Skinner based on last night, but the same principle applies to everybody else.
I do hope Skinner is not feeling too bad about how he played. Chances are he’s terribly disappointed and starting to worry about making living arrangements in Kitchener instead of Raleigh. The disappointment last night started with the drop of the puck and was almost universal. That’s why one of the handful of games that will determine who makes the team said little about who has NHL-ready skills at this point.
The first preseason game burdened both the players and the fans with lots of worrisome possibilities. Everybody hoped for an auspicious beginning, a little something from Zeus’s urn of blessings for the battles to come. What we got seemed to come from Zeus’s other urn.
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
For my money, Skinner didn’t disappoint. He didn’t exceed expectations either. He did get knocked off the puck, but he didn’t fall down. That actually impressed me. Staal’s first season he would get knocked all over the ice. Skinner got separated from the puck, but he was able to stay on his feet.
He carried the puck a bit too long, allowing defenders to collapse on him before passing the puck. He also relied on plays that work at the junior level and not at the NHL. One in particular where he brought the puck in the zone and curled to let the defender go by only to find a second defender was trailing him and promptly took the puck when Skinner tried to curl sticks out in my mind. It’s not bad. It’s what young players do. No matter how many times they hear that the speed in the NHL is different they can’t adapt to it until playing against it.
He showed some flashes too. He got to the net. He had some good shots. I think there’s definitely a base to build a career around there. It just may be best for all involved that Skinner go back to juniors after nine games. It seems to me as if the Canes got a great deal on a player by taking him a year early. To me, Skinner seems like he will be next season Jordan Eberle (good pick who kept impressing people and ended up greatly improving his game by going back to juniors, playing in the world championships, and the Memorial Cup).
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
I definitely don’t buy the bad skater comments about Skinner, I’d say unorthodox: he pivots and crosses over like a figure skater, which isn’t a bad thing it’s just different. He gets really low to the ice and gets to full speed quickly, the only thing you can really say about the way he skates is he has a kind of short choppy stride. He was fun to watch.
He goes 2 and 10 a lot… It looks funny but it seemed pretty effective to me last night. I was surprised how smoothly he was moving at times through opponents, a few times I thought he was going to get slammed open ice but he never did.
I’m not disappointed in his performance… I really think he had 2-3 great shots he passed up on right in the lower slot for a slap-pass. He was very bad (and visibly not happy in my opinion) in the face-off circle. I don’t really know why they kept throwing him to the wolves like that. He showed some real tenacity forechecking, but he was also getting knocked off the puck at times on offense. I tend to agree with Go_Shelf that he will get better every game… He wasn’t getting a lot of space with the puck, stick him on the wing with Staal/Ruutu or Sutter/Cole and I think he will be a lot more productive offensively.
Gotta disagree with you here...
I saw Skinner fall down about 6 times. While I think he has a ton of talent, tonight reminded me why an 18 year old is typically not filled out enough to play pro hockey. Not everyone grows like Lebron :)
by chrisbrasfield on Sep 22, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I saw him get knocked down about six times, I wouldn’t atttribute that to being a bad skater. He’s 5’11 195, he’s not going to fill out that much more. I think he’ll get better every game, it’s got to be a big adjustment.
yep
I agree. I really wish he could play in the AHL instead of Juniors this year to get used to the bigger bodies flying around.
by chrisbrasfield on Sep 22, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry but the ice was terrible last night. Sanguinetti fell down probably 5 times in the first period. McBain was even falling down all over the place. Everybody was falling.
hope so
I didn’t notice, but that’s probably b/c I wasn’t looking as hard. If that’s the case, I’d be happy to hear it.
I certainly thought Dalpe and O’Sullivan looked ready to be on the team.
by chrisbrasfield on Sep 22, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
HM, you should have seen the kids when they took the ice for warmups. Skinner and Nash were both skating around and looking up into the stands like a first trip to the big city. There was definitely a moment of awe.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on Sep 22, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Nerves...
I think Dalpe’s face in this one during warmups says it all:
by Raccoon Fink on Sep 22, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
We left after the end of the second period
but here are my thoughts:
Never have McBain and Babchuk as a D-pairing again. Ever.
Skinner looked like he belonged. He had 3 or 4 shifts where he was around the goal mouth and trying to make things happen.
Samson caught my eye. Liked his size, and he seemed to be around the puck a lot, especially on defense.
O’Sullivan and Sanguinetti increase the team’s overall skill level.
I was underwhelmed by Matsumoto. He seemed small and looked like he was chasing the play.
I’m guessing that Thursday or Friday’s game will be the last of the youth experiment, and come Friday or Saturday we’ll start to see the 2010-11 Canes take form.
Samson caught my eye. Liked his size, and he seemed to be around the puck a lot, especially on defense.
I’m not a big Samson fan, and it pains me to say this, but I do agree with this. He did seem to have a decent night. I kept asking, “who is that number 71 out there” all night.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Was last night a bummer? Yeah it sure was. We’d waited all summer long to see our rookies dominate the league and instead watched them play like well…rookies. No one wanted to lose 4-1 to Florida, but I think breaking out the Henny Penny “the sky is falling” card is a little premature.
There were insane amounts of nerves last night and it showed, especially among the guys who are approaching each game with the idea that it could make or break their shots of making the team. I’m not going to judge all of the new faces (or the old ones for that matter) based on 60 minutes of what amounts to be nothing more than a glorified scrimmage. Give them time. Wait and see. The Stanley Cup isn’t won in September.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
by caniacgirl on Sep 22, 2010 9:23 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Sound, prudent advice, caniacgirl. Don’t judge the new or old faces based on last night’s awful 60 minutes. In my view, the problem is that we can’t judge at all because none of the players was able to play worth a damn.
That precludes judging the players. I think it’s a different story for the head coach.
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m even extending the “no blame” rule to the coaching staff. They always get too much credit when things go right and too much blame when things implode IMO.
Last night was not the time to rip the guys up and down, to their face or to the media. He has to pick and choose his spots and I think he was smart to let that one go. It was the first time the coaches saw that group work together in a “game” situation and clearly it wasn’t ideal. Everyone is working out the kinks and kicking the tires so to speak. I’m adopting a wait and see attitude regarding the preseason. If we still look like that on October 1st with a lineup very similar if not identical to the one we’re taking overseas, then I’ll worry. Right now? Not so much.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
by caniacgirl on Sep 22, 2010 9:42 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think between you and Elsker and Hockey Mom’s assessment of Skinner’s day, you’ve hit the nail on the head. There are several young guys and each of them, I would say, has a decent shot at just a few available spots. There is only so much you can assess from camp. Putting these young guys in a real world situation to see how they perform is one way to distinguish who is truly ready and who is not. I think last night’s game was largely inconclusive so, although I don’t like seeing the Canes lose, I think a couple more games of a youngster-dominated line-up are necessary.
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
Did anyone expect that last night might be THAT bad?
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 9:36 AM EDT reply actions
I expected a few players to play like they did last night, but I was more shocked that every young forward not named O’Sullivan played as poorly as they did. There are open spots for the taking. I’d figure a couple would step up and differentiate themselves from the pack
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Centers on Parade
Let’s take a look at the judge’s marks for our center beauty pageant contestants:
Skinner: 17:31 ice time (18 shifts), no penalties, dead even in plus/minus, 2 shots on goal, no hits/giveaways/takeaways, 5 out of 20 on faceoffs (25%).
Dalpe: 14:29 ice time (18 shifts), no penalties, dead even in plus/minus, 3 shots on goal, no hits/giveaways/takeaways, 6 out of 8 on faceoffs (75%).
Nash: 15:34 ice time (18 shifts), 1 penalty, minus 1 in plus/minus, 1 shot on goal, no hits/giveaways/takeaways, 8 out of 17 on faceoffs (47%).
Matsumoto: 9:51 ice time (16 shifts), no penalties, minus 2 in plus/minus, 1 shot on goal, 3 hits (tied with Gleason for top honors), no giveaways/takeaways, 2 out of 8 faceoffs (25%).
Even distribution of shifts, with minor variations in ice time due to shift lengths, so the coaches got the looks they wanted to get.
Nothing jumps off the stat sheet, except Matsumoto’s 3 hits (tying Gleason for team honors) and Dalpe’s 75% (on a small sample size of 8) in the faceoff circle.
I might score Skinner and Dalpe even, except for the faceoff percentage difference. Haven’t checked, but Skinner was probably up against a more experienced, and their near-best center since the lines were matching up first-first, and he was taking 20 faceoffs to Dalpe’s 8. Faceoff percentage analysis needs more data points, and from more faceoff partners, to truly judge difference.
Not sure I trust the giveaway/takeaway scorer’s eyes on this game, but nothing to see there for any of the four.
Pretty quiet night for all four, actually.
Here we are now...entertain us.
So with our “veteran” centers and the kids performance last night, we are probably going to really struggle in the faceoff circle this season.
Triple Gold Juice - It's Potent and Guaranteed to Help You Score!
by PackPride17 on Sep 22, 2010 10:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Looks like there is work to be done. But, we knew that.
And even if the draws are even at best, that “compete for the puck” thing should help us come up with the puck, even if the draw doesn’t go our way.
And, by the way, “compete for the puck” was decidedly lacking last night, in my opinion, after all the hype.
Charlie Hustle, we were not.
Here we are now...entertain us.
Can't compete for the puck without legs
Not even LaRose had legs after the practices leading up to the game. Mo said that’s what he wanted. That’s what he got. He seems pleased. I don’t see why. Proving that no one had enough stamina to play a game after the deliberate preparation buys us exactly what, other than negative impressions of all the players?
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Test to Failure
“A man’s got to know his limitations.”
- Clint Eastwood
(Magnum Force)
Here we are now...entertain us.
OK, we've achieved failure. Everybody failed. Now what?
I concede that Mo coached the team up for authentic failure last night.
I don’t care that the Canes lost. I’m pissed that after all the extra preseason conditioning work at the RecZone and with personal trainers, three days of practice renders the team incapable of playing hockey. I don’t see that as a positive. I don’t see it as an essential part of an intense conditioning program to get ready for the season.
It strikes me as a really stupid way to compare players competing for scarce jobs unless absolutely nothing matters but endurance. If nothing matters but endurance, we’re in for a year without watchability.
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear you, but from a scientific standpoint, it’s hard to disagree with the approach.
It’s one burned preseason game, but they were able to put all four forward prospects out on the very same sheet of ice (bad as it was), in our home facility where video for review is a cinch, and pretty much hold the other variables (like shifting wingers around willy-nilly) constant.
Really about the best way I can think of to begin to rationally sort out just who’s got what and see if there’s any flash of brilliance not spotted before anywhere. Even number of shifts for all, ’cept Matsumoto (16 shifts vs. 18 for the other three centers).
Just who is going to be third line center is the biggest mystery to solve for the org, so getting serious about the decision is a good start for the preseason, in my opinion.
Starting with the back-to-back with Nashville on Thurs/Fri, I think we’ll begin to see the regulars blended back into the mix.
Remember we had major horsepower on the shelf last night: Staal, Cole, Jokinen, Pitkanen, Sutter, Samsonov, Corvo, etc.
We can play better than this…when playing for the win begins to matter.
Here we are now...entertain us.
by Elsker on Sep 22, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know we had major horsepower on the shelf and the Canes can play better and I truly don’t care about losing last night’s game. I’m not sure last night shed that much light on the young centers because everybody looked slow and sloppy. It may be significant that Dalpe won some faceoffs but it’s far from clear that he’s a better center than, say, Dwyer, or that he belongs in the NHL instead of Charlotte. We got more evidence that if Skinner is ever to have a shot in the NHL, it will be at wing, not center. But I thought the Canes and most experts already believed that. Last night shed no light on whether Skinner belongs in the NHL at any position. Nobody on the Canes looked like an NHL player last night, including the NHL vets.
That’s one indictment of the way the Canes’ coaching staff handled last night’s game. The other team was in exactly the same boat. After last night’s game, though, Florida knows that it has an NHL player, almost certainly for this year, in Gudbranson. It doesn’t matter that they won the game. It matters that they know they have an NHL defenseman in Gudbranson. They can now focus on getting Gudbranson ready to play regular shifts on a regular pairing in the NHL. Gudbranson looked good, but then he had legs under him to do it. In stark contrast, the Canes got NO comparable knowledge about ANY prospect. About our prize young NHL defenseman McBain, we got concerns that he looked out of it and isn’t as good as he looked last year.
Furthermore, the Canes collapsed at the outset. That is always horrible to see and always an indictment of a coach, even in a game that doesn’t matter in the standings. It is even more damning if you can make a team collapse instantaneously when it’s crammed with prospects desperately fighting for jobs. How well they played mattered enormously to them and they couldn’t play worth a damn. All part of Mo’s grand plan? God spare us from such plans.
According to JR, the Canes are trying to be competitive this year, but even if they aren’t, they want to be fun to watch. On a scale of 1-10, they deserved a 1 last night for competitiveness and a 1 for watchability. JR also said they were going with prospects – watching them was supposed to be part of the fun even if the Canes aren’t racking up lots of wins. I’ve enjoyed watching the prospects on video and in some other games, but I don’t think anybody would pay to see a game like the one last night.
Knowing that the team needs to offer the fans some fun if it can’t guarantee the playoffs, Mo still put a team before the home crowd that he had rendered funless and uncompetitive. He did enough in one night to undermine any marketing campaign intended to bring people out to see the prospects shine and grow. But then according to Mo, if they’d been competitive and fun to watch, he wouldn’t have been doing his job, right?
Last night was disturbing because it was a horror show to watch, it revealed nothing about the NHL readiness of the Canes’ prospects, and it showed that the coaching staff attaches no importance at this point to creating conditions for selecting a competitive, exciting team or providing any entertainment for Canes’ fans.
It’s great to be loyal to Mo and all, but he has a strong history of coaching unwatchable teams and missing the playoffs, a strong history of preferring mediocre veterans to talented prospects, and no history of successfully developing young players. Mo’s history and this team’s makeup seemed like a mismatch from the time the Canes decided to rebuild. Mo was much better suited to last year’s veteran squad. That didn’t work out so well, so what can we expect when Mo is not at all suited to this year’s squad?
If the Canes are sticking with Mo, they should ship out the kids tomorrow. If they’re rebuilding and want to keep any fans—that is, fans beyond the small band of Mo loyalists hoping to bring back the glory days that the rest of us can’t remember—then the Canes should reassign Mo.
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. Well, I just don’t share those concerns, but maybe my expectations were lower than yours as to what we were holding among the prospects.
Maybe we don’t have a NHL-ready player among the prospects. But, if so, that’s exactly the kind of thing that needs to be discovered now, while we can do something about it.
One option is to return Skinner and pack everyone else up for Charlotte. There are plenty of free agents still hanging around that would like a job, plus we have tradeable assets.
It’s just one game and an experimental scrimmage at that. If they’re worn out by one-a-days and a game-day skatearound…well, that’s interesting information, whether vets or prospects.
But, I’d much rather they be run hard and put up wet than babied at this stage of the game.
Winning games is not important in the preseason. Trying to identify the 12-13 best forwards and 7-8 defensemen in the system is the primary mission.
Here we are now...entertain us.
We got nowhere toward identifying the 12-13 best forwards last night. That’s a big part of why I’m pissed. We still have no idea if we have an NHL-ready player among the prospects. Surely finding that out should be an important preseason goal. But there I go again. I promise to stifle such rants and hope that my pessimism is misplaced until there’s more to see. Unfortunately, misplaced or not, my pessimism is genuine. Maurice could learn from last night’s game and change something, but he sounds absolutely satisified with what he got, so I’m expecting more of the same.
On identifying the 7-8 defensemen, we learned that fears about Harrison seem justified. As in the AHL playoffs last year, Harrison again turns up with the worst +/-. He had a lot of negative impressions to reverse, needed to do it fast, and instead reinforced them. His legs were likely dead, too, but you have less access to excuses when you’re in his situation.
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s entirely possible that none of the prospects are NHL-ready as the season begins.
That may be what we discover.
But, it’s an important thing to discover, so personally I’m sort of glad they’re “testing to failure”.
Here we are now...entertain us.
If testing to failure is the best way to see who is NHL ready, then you’re right, the Canes should test to failure.
But if testing to failure shows that none of these prospects is NHL ready, what have the Canes been doing the last three years? Drafting the wrong prospects? Screwing up their development? The Avs played rookies last year and won. If not one of Boychuk, Bowman and Dalpe is ready at this point, then either the Canes drafted the wrong players or the coaches in Raleigh and Albany/Charlotte are bottom of the barrel at player development.
I think some of the players are talented enough and at least a couple should be NHL ready and should have been able to prove that last night. That didn’t happen. Something is badly, badly wrong when a team announces that it is rebuilding and then puts on a horror show like the one last night. I don’t think what’s wrong is the prospects. I don’t think it’s the drafting. I don’t think it’s JR. I don’t think it’s Ron Francis. I don’t think it’s Jeff Daniels. The organization has a lot of assets. It’s been cultivating those assets for years. It takes some doing to negate all those assets and yet it’s being done this preseason.
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s one game. The first NHL pre-season game. The first time Skinner, Dalpe, Matsumoto, and O’Sullivan played in the RBC. They had a case of nerves, some more that others. Cam Ward was less than magical for the first seven minutes. Harrison blew coverage on one play. Babchuk blew coverage on another. The coaches were not going to repeat the mistakes of last season where they took it too easy on the team in training camp. Can’t the Mo haters at least wait until three pre-season games before they start the march to burn down the team, the coaches, and the organization?
Yea, and if he we played patty cake instead of pushing players hard during the training camp then Mo would be blamed for that, too. Everybody was excited about what was going on with the practices a few days ago so this isn’t all Mo’s fault. I think they have the right approach, and they have time to figure this stuff out and experiment. That’s why it’s called preseason.
by hotchipsnsalsa on Sep 22, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
From the crowd
Shortly after the game started, section 328 started chanting “Let’s Go Skinner” clap clap clap. Wonder if he heard it? That had to be quite a welcoming. A while later I heard “Double Axel” clap clap clap “Double Axel” LOL
We were fortunate enough to get to watch the 3rd period from the corner media area rink side. From that point of view, TommyK was everywhere, banged into everyone. Skinner was quick, but at times looked like he was playing on a one man team. I’ll chalk that up to not having played one this line for more than a day or two. A few times he looked like he was trying to do everything and not use his teammates. Then other times he would do a no-look pass to no one. Again, that will gel once the guys practice together more.
The players that caught my eyes the most were Samson and O’Sullivan. Samson was strong and good when battling for the puck on the boards. O’Sullivan has some great moves. At one point I was seeing flashes of Samsonov when he was handling the puck.
It was the first time I’ve seen Pogge play. He looked good. He likes to come out of the crease and play the puck a lot.
I was disappointed we lost, but reserving judgment until I see EStaal, Jussi, Corvo, Cole, Joni and others play a game.
Still in progress, but here’s the start of my game album. Much more to come so check back in the next day or so but I wanted to get up some looks at the young guys.
Canes vs. Panthers – 9/21/2010
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
I didn’t see the game so I really cannot comment, however, different folks approach practice games differently. From my own coaching experiences from the first couple of games I want to see how players react in certain situations and how well they gel with other players so I am not looking to necessarily approach the game to win it. I think, based soley on the comments about the play here, if we have this sort of output on preseason games 5 and 6 then we will have to lower our expectations.
Is it October yet?
by hotchipsnsalsa on Sep 22, 2010 10:14 AM EDT reply actions
So, is it telling that there were more comments about me in last night’s game thread than there were about Tuomo? No one is mentioning him today and I thought it was significant (in a very good way) that he was in the lineup to test the shoulder in a game situation. I thought he was rather unremarkable in the first period (as was all) but looked to be returning to form after that. He had a really good shift in the second period where he charged the net a couple of times and then laid a decent hit on his way off the ice for good measure. Feedback from those less biased than me?
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
Only caught the last 10 minutes on the net feed
The feed was laggy so I could only make a couple of observations…
-the guys looked tired (bad)
-the guys looked frustrated (good)
-Skinner was getting man-handled out there. I thought, “there’s no way he’s ready for this”… then I realized I said the same thing about Rosie in 2005. So I say let him play at least his 9, then we’ll see.
I’m still excited as hell about the season.
This is pre-season
I was not able to attend last night, thanks to all who did and posted their observations.
Based on those comments here is my takeaway from last night;
It is pre-season, which has 2 goals ( excuse the pun). One is to evaluate players for roster spots, and the other is to condition the players for the upcoming season and set a tone as to the work effort and intensity the staff will expect from the players. Maurice doing anything less than working the players extremely hard during practice would defeat the second goal. Until the roster is reduced and the players taking the ice for pre-season games most resemble the regular season roster these early games have to be viewed as extensions of practice. I doubt any final decisions were made as a result of last nights game, but I am sure notes will be taken on how the players respond to last night. Which young players can adjust most quickly to the NHL level game they have never played before? Which players can recover physically quicker? In short I am sure the goal wasn’t to win last nights game, but to condition, evaluate, and teach.
by Hockeydog on Sep 22, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
fyi, it was preseason for florida, too, and they worked their players hard and want to see who is up for roster spots but they STILL kicked our butts. poor excuse.
by Capt. Stinky on Sep 22, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
+10,000
The Canes are not the only team getting ready for the season. They may be the only one that has started by rendering its players incapable of playing. No energy. No team work. From the get-go.
by curiouscanesfan on Sep 22, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
bingo.
florida’s goal wasn’t to win the game last night either. their players were adjusting to the NHL level also. i agree 100% with capt stinky in that using that as an excuse is useless, even though i’m not ready to jump ship yet
by ECUCanesFan on Sep 22, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
They got 3 goals scored on them in 5 minutes and 30 seconds… Take away that mental lapse (or possibly just early Rookie nervousness) and they really didn’t have that terrible of a game. Mo said himself that there were a lot of nerves and the locker room was quiet before the game… If anything he should have been pumping them up but we all know that is not low-key Maurice.
good of Coach Mo to notice everyone nervous and quiet before the game and… NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!! How about a brief “chat” with the young-uns about getting out there and working their butts off? oy….
by Capt. Stinky on Sep 22, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's fire Mo NOW!!!
I think the staff just wanted to let the kids experience their first taste of pro hockey un-censored, or un-filtered, however you wish to describe it. Now we move on. I have never seen so much angst over a preseason game before, much less the first preseason game.
yes he did
he also allowed 7 goals in 2 preseason games last year
by ECUCanesFan on Sep 22, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ward and the Defense
I think the main concern for the coaching staff ought to be figuring out which defensemen are going to stick with the team and getting them working together. Harrison 2010-2011, looks faster than 2009-2010, but he has slow hands and slow reactions in my view. I’ve seen him in NHL games, in NHL practices, in the AHL, it’s the same physical limitations of eye hand coordination, I think.
Cam Ward is starting out this pre-season with similar results and that concerns me more than anything else. He wasn’t a goalie last night who was superman standing on his head. The defense surely had times of monumental failure, but he didn’t help them out much either.
I think the defense will be fine ultimately; but I’d like to see the decisions made quickly about whom to assign to Charlotte and let’s get the core defense working together to be on the same page.
I think priority has got to be convincing McBain to get rid of the number 4 so I can stop having Aaron Ward flashbacks…
by Capt. Stinky on Sep 22, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
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