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Game Analysis: Hurricanes At Sabres

The Carolina Hurricanes won the special teams battle in an unconventional way Friday, scoring twice shorthanded and tallying on the power play with less than 90 seconds left to topple the Sabres in Buffalo, 4-3, for their second straight.

Much like Wednesday's win vs. Boston, the Canes got three-zone contributions from the entire lineup. Eight players registered a point, but no one managed a multiple-point effort.

Star-divide

Three Observations

1. There was a time when the Hurricanes were considered a finesse team, one that could be pushed around at both end of the rink. No more. The Hurricanes' transformation into a more physical team really started last season when Tuomo Ruutu played a full season and finished among the league leaders in hits. Despite the departure of Erik Cole, the Canes look even tougher this year. Jiri Tlusty has added jam to the third line, while Tim Gleason looks like the player he was two seasons ago. But the biggest difference comes in the form Bryan Allen. Allen set the tone for the game with a big open ice hit on Sabres captain Jason Pominville. Allen was rightfully assessed an interference penalty on the play — the puck, which had been in Pominville's feet, had squirted away at the time of the hit — but it was a clean shoulder-to-body shot that dazed Pominville but did not hurt him (he returned shortly after). Allen also smartly avoided a retribution fight with fourth liner Cody McCormick, a trade off that would have benefited Buffalo. Furthermore, the penalty call didn't deter Allen from being physical the rest of the way. There's no doubt the Canes won the battle of brawn Friday.

2. Jeff Skinner's game-winning goal was a thing of beauty, with Jussi Jokinen finding the sophomore forward for the winner on the power play with just 1:24 left in the game. But the real special teams win came on the penalty kill. Not only did Carolina shut down a power play that was 2-for-5 coming in to the game, but they scored twice shorthanded. First, Brandon Sutter scored unassisted when he motored away from Sabres d-man Christian Ehrhoff and froze goalie Ryan Miller with a deke to tie the game with only 12 seconds left in the first period. Then 6:59 into the second, Tim Brent got his first goal as a Cane, benefiting from Tlusty's coast-to-coast rush when the Czech forward placed a perfect right pad shot on Miller that bounced right to Brent on the 2-on-1 for a 3-2 lead. Carolina exploited Buffalo's biggest weakness (their over-aggression) throughout the game, but never more than they did when they were down a man.

3. Coach Paul Maurice finally split up his two top guns, moving Skinner to a line with Chad LaRose and Jokinen while flanking Eric Staal with Ruutu and Alexei Ponikarovsky. Both impacted the score — Skinner had the game-winner while Staal, for the second straight game, supplied a great screen on a goal (Jay Harrison's first period marker) — and Staal certainly had his chances, including a breakaway that was stopped by Miller. But it's hard to look at the box score and not notice Staal at a minus-3, pushing him to a league-worst minus-8. On the whole, Carolina's plus/minus is in the dumps — with the exception of the pairing of Tim Gleason and Bryan Allen, who are a league-best plus-7 and plus-5, respectively, and still have not been on the ice for a goal against since they were put together — and Staal's minus-8 is not reflective of his play. But it's a stat people look at, and the perception that Staal is struggling will be rampant if that number doesn't improve. With just one even-strength point to his credit, Staal's path to digging out of his plus/minus hole comes not defensively, but on offense.

Number To Know

58 — Faceoff wins for Sutter, the most in the NHL. Granted, the Hurricanes have played five games, giving Sutter the edge on the rest of the league, but he has won 61.7 percent of his draws (58 of 94) for the 11th-best win percentage in the NHL. He's been even better shorthanded, winning 17 of 25 (68 percent) with the Canes down a man. Turn back the clock to last Oct. 29 and you'll find that Sutter had gone 2-for-16 against Pittsburgh and had won just 30.2 percent of his faceoffs on the young season, far and away the worst in the NHL. Obviously, this illustrates a monumental improvement.

Plus

Cam Ward — Let's just get this out there: just about everyone takes Ward for granted. The Hurricanes goalie is yet to enter his prime and he's already the most accomplished goalie in franchise history. He outdueled Miller by stopping 39 of 42 shots and blanked the Sabres on the power play. Buffalo had 11:27 with the man-advantage in seven opportunities, but could not crack Ward. Even the three goals he allowed at even strength can hardly be pinned on Ward. In all, a stellar performance.

Minus

Chad LaRose — LaRose was his normal, active self, registering four shots in 14:40 of ice time, but he was tonight's winner of the Bad Penalty Award. LaRose took a high-stick penalty in the second, and later was the culprit in a too many men on the ice call even though that one will go down as a bench minor. LaRose also had 3:35 of power play time despite having just two career PPGs in 411 NHL games. Where LaRose is slotted — on the first line, with the man-advantage, wherever — is out of his control, and he can't be faulted for giving his best effort, as he always does. But if he is going to play a top-six role, the Canes cannot afford to have him taking two bad penalties in a tight game.

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Late last season these boards were full of frustration over how bad our special teams were. We could barely move the puck into the offensive zone (remember the Pitkanen to Jussi pass that broke Jussi free down the middle? Over and over and over, which failed more times than not?) – and we were being killed on the PK despite being the least penalized team in the league (at the time). Looks like PM found a solution to these problems for now. Way to go Paul. Confidence is high.

Staal not only was screening Harrison’s goal but Skinner’s as well. He hasn’t taken any stupid retaliatory penalties this season either (that I can recall). These improvements in our game has me hopeful. We are dominating our opponents by winning the little battles and they are adding up to winning the war.

I wonder how much influence Staal has on picking his line mates? Could it be that LaRose is on the first line because that is what Staal wants?

by coastalcaniac on Oct 15, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Great…LaRose is Binky 2.0? I hope not. Exactly how much are we paying for Staals stellar screening ability? 1 game of good special teams is a start, not a come back. Next game will be a gut check. Boston will be up for that. I’m gladf Sutters FO skills are showing, it’s a very important piece of the game. I’m still waiting for about 10 games to jump for joy or stick heads on a pike. It does put a smile on ones face beating the slugs though.

A

Getting old sucks!

by Paladin6 on Oct 15, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Staal has also drawn a pair of big, game-clinching penalties late in the third.

P.S.: Don’t you go giving Maurice credit around here. People won’t stand for it.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 15, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're Right

I ain’t given Mo credit for these two past wins.

I see a team playing above his crap. How many times have you seen this team attack short handed the past two seasons? Luck.

How many freakin’ too many men on ice are we going to get?? Mo can whine all he wants…that’s a product of coaching.

Coaching issues continue to hold us back.

I’m glad we have won two games but Cam Ward can only carry us so far.

We need to do a better job on BASIC hockey things first and foremost.

by WStout on Oct 15, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep -= I knew it wouldn’t take long…

by caniacmum on Oct 16, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great game summary; a request

Thanks, Cory.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Canes’ best line assignments going forward now that we’ve had a glimpse of what the newcomers can do and realize Dalpe is out of the top-9 picture for the present.

by curiouscanesfan on Oct 15, 2011 10:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Sorry for the delay … I think moving Ruutu back to center makes sense. Jokinen’s faceoffs haven’t been jaw-dropping, so get him back to the wing. I like the Tlusty-Sutter-Dwyer line, and I wouldn’t touch that. I would try Skinner-Ruutu as a pairing, then Staal-Jokinen, and they try the other wings to see who fits where. I’d lead toward Poni with Staal just to take the physical burden off Staal on that line, then maybe Stewart with Skinner and Ruutu. Brett Sutter and LaRose centered by Brent would be my fourth line, tho I tried to get them at least 10 minutes.

by Cory Lavalette on Oct 17, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks. I hope we get to see the lines you’re recommending.

by curiouscanesfan on Oct 18, 2011 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

great win

thanks cam

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Oct 15, 2011 10:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Staal screened the Skinner goal, but not the Harrison one. He wasn’t on the ice for the Harrison goal, if he was he would have been a -2 rather than a -3.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 15, 2011 11:11 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I thought Staal was out there as well (I also thought that was a PPG which was the reason for a -3 instead of a -2, appears not even though the penalty was taken at 6:20 and the goal scored at 8:20). Checked the replay, it was LaRose and Poni out there screening.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 15, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where is the mention of Poni?

He’s having some very very solid games. Using his size, freeing players. I’ve been very impressed with him the last few games.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 15, 2011 11:23 AM EDT reply actions  

He was awesome last night. Let’s see if he can bring that game most nights.

by drifterscape on Oct 15, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great job Cory!

I also thought Poni played really well and I like the current 6 man D unit. The team toughness makes a big difference!

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take-Gretzky

by cdne on Oct 15, 2011 11:25 AM EDT reply actions  

I like how the lines ended in that game. Poni looks fantastic in my opinion and he fits well with Staal on the first line. I think splitting up Staal and Skinner will work wonders, and they can easily be put together briefly when a goal is needed. Jokinen and Skinner obviously have some chemistry there. Tlusty is playing as I hoped, and Sutter is suddenly being an offensive force. The defense pairings also look good. Allen is one of our best defensemen this season. I’d say Kaberle is our biggest liability back there, and I’m not too happy that he was signed right now.

Hopefully Maurice sticks with these lines for some time. It would be even better if LaRose was bumped down to the fourth line and Dalpe moved up. Dalpe made a few good defensive plays and I think Maurice was gaining some confidence in him and the fourth line until his injury. LaRose took two (almost three or four) dumb penalties and Maurice was obviously not very happy with him on the TMMI call.

by hurricane9 on Oct 15, 2011 11:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Beat me to it

There was some talk of trading Allen since we are so deep on D. I pray that plan has been scrapped. Allen has been an absolute ANIMAL.

I bet JR is wishing he’d spent Kaberle’s salary on a top 6 winger right now. TK looked pretty bad out there last night.

by TOS on Oct 15, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Kaberle hasn't looked much better all season.

Even at his peak, he was a limited player, and we’re paying him like he’s not well after it.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 15, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Staal

As many of you know I am a huge Staal fan/supporter. But I have to take issue with given Staal any pass so far this season. We have played 5 games and he has basically only shown up for 1 of those games so far (Washington). That’s not to say he hasn’t done some good. In the 3 games we got points; Staal has contibuted, but it has been very few plays. He is paid and expected to be a difference maker and he really has disappointed in my eyes so far. He is a league worse +/-, his faceoff percentage is horrible, and he only has points in 1 game.

I would really say that our 2 worst forwards so far this year are our 2 highest paid. And IMO, our worst defenseman is our 2nd highest paid. That means 3 of our 5 highest paid players are playing poor. I’m calling out Staal, Ruutu, & Kaberle (particularly Staal) to step up their games and EARN their freakin’ paychecks!

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 15, 2011 12:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I think Staal had an atrocious opening game but has been pretty good since.

I put a lot of his issues since then down to lousy line assignments, new defensive pairings and confusion on pinches about who’s supposed to be the high forward. In particular, I think when LaRose was on Staal’s line that Staal and SKinner were both counting on LaRose to be the high forward and get back on defense. That didn’t seem to happen as you would expect, probably because teams left LaRose open and so he skated in and shot while Staal and Skinner stayed deep because they thought they should be trying to score.

I think forwards have also been surprised when Harrison has pinched and are trying to get used to Kaberle.

by curiouscanesfan on Oct 15, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

The High Forward

From last season’s videos, it was clear that LaRose had a difficult time as the high forward. His strength is being all-out, skating around attacking the puck and using his relentlessness to wear out other teams. When he is expected to pull off from attack mode, he was often late to the party. Additionally, last season LaRose got some excellent looks because teams were trying to have him get the puck rather than Staal and Skinner when LaRose was on their lines. It’s a sensible approach for opposing teams. What team wouldn’t rather let LaRose keep handling the puck than Skinner or Staal?

   I found Cory’s observation about LaRose’s two bad penalties interesting. One recurring theme from last season for me in reviewing last season’s game videos was LaRose taking inopportune penalties. Still, the Canes are 2-2-1, and have 5 of 6 points in the last three games. Something is working. So while LaRose seems destined to take dubious penalties and be left open as the preferred puck handler by the Hurricanes’ opponents, the Hurricanes are winning games. Whatever works is ok with me.

by abramsdoug on Oct 15, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

But you can’t blame LaRose for him being put on the 1st line. The coach has to recognize the player’s games and slot appropriately. I blame that more on Mo.

And the Canes actually have 4 points in their last 3 games. NJ was a loss, 0 points.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 15, 2011 4:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

By saying step up your game and earn your freakin’ paycheck, I sure hope you’re not implying Tuomo Ruutu isn’t already giving you 100% plus effort. Yes, I realize I see the world through Ruu-colored glasses, and playing hurt is no excuse, and effort obviously doesn’t always equal results, but I have a hard time believing anyone thinks he’s not already giving it his all.

Blind optimist and Kool-Aid drinker

by Jamie Kellner on Oct 15, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Ruutu is hurt, he has some excuse; but he still needs to step up his game. 1 point through 5 games is not good. And he is also not being quite as effective in other parts of his game either. But Staal is the main one I’m calling out. He needs to be more of a difference maker more often than 1 time a game.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 15, 2011 1:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think it’s obvious Ruutu has been hurt and that he always gives 100% of what he has. You can’t give more than 100%. The question is whether when a player is injured, the coach should take him out of the lineup until he’s well. If the coach puts him in the lineup when he’s hurt, it’s unfair to fault any player for not being at the top of his game.

I have a limited history of sports injuries, but enough to know that there are times when owing to a specific injury you can’t do certain things no matter how hard you try. Forutnately, Ruutu seems to be getting better. Until he’s fully recovered, I think it’s best to cut the team’s most physical and hardest working player some slack.

by curiouscanesfan on Oct 15, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you want, you can give him slack. My only point is that he is one of the more disappoint forwards so far. Whether that is due to injury or not, its true. If he is recovering from an injury; why not sit him or limit his time to help in the recovery process? Instead he has been promoted to the top line. This is just illogical to me.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 15, 2011 2:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Probably because we have had problems winning games/scoring and he is a proven scorer. Plus we now have some more spaced out games, which gives him time to heal.

by hurricane9 on Oct 15, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not all on the coach.

The coach has to trust the medical staff and the player to let him know when they can’t go.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 17, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is little fault to be found with #12’s offense. He really does it all well. I also believe he is held, obstructed and interfered with a ton. Few times these penalties are called. Right now though his transition back to defense is very slow. Staal is becoming the Canadien version of Kovalchuk, a tremendous one way player. This was vey conspicuous on Vaneks hustle score and the lack thereof from #12 to stay with him. I disagree with the observation that his -8 is not relective of his play. It is very reflective of his relative commitment to offense vs. defense. Those on the ice with him will need to make up for this one way play to be an effective line. It can be done. Didn’t you love looking at the standings this morning. Fifth place is reflective of this teams total effort. Go Canes!

by surgalt on Oct 15, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Offense yes...

But last year he was a pretty good defensive player, which makes this a bit of a head-scratcher. He was -10 last year, but I remember him doing well on the PK. He needs some work on his backchecking from what I’ve seen this young season.

by rubyhawk on Oct 15, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still bad coaching

What Mo is doing with Larose and Dalpe is beyond me. Larose is Mr. Effort, no doubt, but he is a third line talent. Dalpe is a waste at 7 minutes a game. Better to trade him before Mo pisses all over his confidence.

by prplmnkydw on Oct 15, 2011 12:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Disagree. Maurice is playing Dalpe too much, which is why he was injured! He’s going to damage our prospects by playing them so much!

by hurricane9 on Oct 15, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Truth be told, I think LaRose is a great 4th liner who is just OK on the 3rd line when all is said and done.

by curiouscanesfan on Oct 15, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: What is Dalpe doing out there on the ice to warrant more playing time? I want the kid to succeed as much as anyone on here, but outside of some early success in the pre-season he’s not showing a lot so far this season.

Now, before I have to deal with any of the “he’s not getting enough minutes” line let me say this. Last night Ruutu had a great play just outside the defensive zone. He was a few stops above the blue line as the puck was coming out of the zone. He took a stride forward, took the puck, turned, took a stride to get the puck past the red line and then dumped the puck deep so the Canes could get a change. It wasn’t a game changing play, but it’s the type of smart, determined, situationally aware play that a player in the top 6 needs to make. It’s also the type of play anyone can make on any shift any night. Where is that play by Dalpe?

For crying out loud, he played center with Charlotte. This is the type of play he should be able to make. He should be used to going to the boards and winning a board battle. I’m not asking for a hat trick here. I’m just asking for a few smart plays, something he should be able to do with the limited ice time if he really has the talent.

I’m all for having an upgrade over LaRose on the first line, but I just don’t see Dalpe as that guy right now unless the desire is to stick him out there for five games and the results be damned.

I think that Stewart is making a better case for more ice time than Dalpe at the moment. He’s dealing with the same limited ice time, but when he’s out on the ice you notice him. He’s making things happen.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 15, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don’t think Dalpe needs to be promoted to the 1st line, but he needs more than 4th line minutes. He has shown to be solid, but not spectacular. We need to see if increase scoring responsibility can be handled by the young man or not. 4th line is a different responsibility than other lines. Put him on the 2nd or 3rd line for a few games, if he doesn’t contribute; send him back down to Charlotte. For a player with his talents, the 4th line is a waste (honestly, the same with Stewart). If Dalpe can’t cut it on the 2nd or 3rd, send him to the A & bring up a player like Samson or Brett Sutter that are more fit for 4th line duties.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 15, 2011 1:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don’t know, he was starting to look a little slow like he was playing hurt already, or just a little out of shape, before he did get injured last night.

Might be more to that than we realize at this point, because I have been screaming for more minutes for him too but he was starting to look a little slow last night.

by Iggy Reilly on Oct 15, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Injury thing might make some sense. He did look good early in the pre-season, but hasn’t since the Winnipeg game in Charlotte. Injury could explain that.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 15, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was a pretty innocent looking play that took him out of the game with a lower body injury last night too.

Tweaked his knee a little bit, didnt look major, but would make sense if he was already playing with a LBI.

by Iggy Reilly on Oct 15, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

1) The Canes aren’t running the fourth line as a checking line. That’s what Sutter’s line is doing. The fourth line is functioning like any other line, just with fewer minutes.

2) Already had the time in the top 9 in pre-season and was still not very effective (0 points, minus player).

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 15, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Umm, the only game in the preseason he played on the 4th line was the final one. So he had 3 points playing in the top 9 in the preseason. You keep looking at basically 1 game as his whole preseason.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 15, 2011 4:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

i think you’re being a bit too focused on what Dalpe is NOT doing and maybe you should look at what someone like LaRose IS doing, then decide who should be in the top 6. LaRose is making mental mistakes, turning the puck over, whiffing on shots and taking bad penalties. Make him a healthy scratch for 3 games or so to get his head straight, or put him on the fourth line.

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Oct 15, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Concur

and thoug I didn’t watch this game, he had some good, “noticable” shifts last game. He did a good job with Stewart in the defensive zone, blocking the puck up to the blue line when Stewart got a steal and a good opportunity at the other end—he missed the net, but I he had gotten it to the net and gotten a reboound, then Dalpe was there.

Dalpe was alsg odd on the shift where Stewart scored….

Either way, niether had had the turnovers or penalties of LaRose, and they’ve been effective when player. Neither is off the 4th line. Yet Rosie is in the top six—as you would say—based on what exactly?? What has Rosie done to warrant time off the 4th line?

by Squeaky83 on Oct 15, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dalpe was alsg odd on the shift where Stewart scored….

He wasn’t terribly effective on that shift though. He stayed out front while the puck was being won at the boards. That did keep a defender on him so it stayed a 2 on 2 down low. But he almost stole the puck from Stewart right before Stewart scored. His next shift he brought the puck through the neutral zone, opted not to pass to Stewart to keep the speed of the breakout going but to carry it in the zone, fired it high and wide once in the zone, stayed behind the net waiting for someone to win a board battle, and, when he got the puck back, promptly turned it over trying to make a pass out front. Sorry, not a ringing endorsement.

I’m not disagreeing that LaRose is overslotted. He’s got the ability to play somewhere between 5 and 10 games in the top 6 before his game is figured out. He’s at that point now. How does overslotting a player and seeing it fails lead to the conclusion that we should overslot Dalpe? If anyone on the fourth line has earned more time, it’s Stewart, and not Dalpe.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 16, 2011 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Stewart’s game has improved 100% since pre-season. He has bursts of speed then, but couldn’t keep it up all shift. I agree, he’s earned his ice time.

Harrumph

by ivyleager on Oct 16, 2011 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

As much as I like the Stewart Brent combo, I’d kind of like to see him elevated a bit. If you had Poni on one line, Ruutu on another, and Stewart on a third you’d have a big body on all three lines. You cold then run a Brent – LaRose – Dalpe 4th whose job would be to bring energy, cycle the puck, draw penalties, and free up Dalpe for occasional scoring chances.

Maybe it would look something like:

Staal – Poni – Jussi
Ruutu – Skinner – Tlusty
Sutter – Stewart – Dwyer
Brent – LaRose – Dalpe

I’m not a huge fan of that third line nor of Tlusty in the top 6. Not sure how well Stewart’s game is suited to that third line. Tlusty has been playing well and has maybe earned a shot. But it’s something I might give a chance. I like the first line, and I think the matchups could work out.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 16, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do agree with that 1st line. That would bring the most balance to it. I would make some slight adjustments.

Poni / Staal / Jussi
Staal would be able to go down low and Jussi could be the high slot forward, where he does his best work. Poni around the net, where Staal & Jussi could find him for redirections.

Ruutu / Skinner / Stewart
Give Skinner and his creativity the chance at center. He would be flanked by 2 big guys and forechecking should be key to this line. I don’t think this would be the most balance line until Ruutu gets back to his former self.

Tlusty / Sutter / Dalpe
Sutter & Tlusty are both defense savvy players and I don’t think Dalpe would hurt this lines defensive abilities. They all have good to very good speed and should be able to turn defense into offense against other teams offensive lines.

LaRose / Brent / Dwyer
This would be the energy/pest line. No overly physical guys, but guys that are willing to do what is necessary. They all play on the PK, so they have defensive abilities. In theory, they could go out and hold their own against any line; no defensive liabilities. Mo could even use them a little more than he currently uses the 4th.

Like I said elsewhere, if Dalpe isn’t working on the 3rd; send him to Charlotte and promote one of the 4th liners. Bring up someone that will help the team, because I just can’t see Dalpe doing that on the 4th line with 6 minutes a night.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 16, 2011 11:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

If Dalpe doesn’t work on the 3rd, maybe Bowman could be brought up. He played pretty defensively responsible last year while here and he has more offensive upside (even though not translated yet) than LaRose or Dwyer.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 16, 2011 11:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Dalpe out for now. Point is moot.

Harrumph

by ivyleager on Oct 16, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still believe that both wings on the 4th line need more time. For as much as LaRose gets blasted, he has shown a lot of hustle this season. I just believe his skills would be better suited on the 4th line alongside of Brent. Dwyer is also been solid so far, but I still believe he would be better served on the 4th line.

I remember during the 09/10 season, Sutter was extremely effective due to being on a line with Ruutu. He was still leading the defensive line, but they had a counter-punch of offense. I think a trial run of Tlusty/Sutter/Dalpe could be a similar line. Dalpe is not the defensive force Ruutu is/was, but he could be more offensive. With Sutter crashing the net, Tlusty’s passing ability, and Dalpe wrister; they could be a really balanced offensive group with speed.

If the trial doesn’t work, send Dalpe back to Charlotte and bring up someone else. You could slide LaRose, Dwyer, or someone new in that spot. Dalpe on the 4th line does him or the Canes no good. Bring up Samson, Brett Sutter, Bowman, Nash; someone that skills translate better to the 4th line.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 16, 2011 9:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I forgot to add that a 4th line of LaRose/Brent/Dwyer is more useful to Mo anyways. That would be a line full of PKers, so they could basically be a 2nd shutdown line that would be defensive focused with energy & pestiness.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 16, 2011 9:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

CL, looking back at Dalpe’s performance so far, you are right that he hasn’t done anything great; but he really hasn’t been given ample opportunity to showcase himself either. Last season, Boychuk & Bowman were at least given the opportunity in the top 9. Why hasn’t Dalpe been given the same opportunity when he was obviously chosen above those players?

I think Dalpe has the talents to be a solid top 6 player that could put up 40 to 50 points. Time will see if that thought comes true or not. But until he is slotted in an area where he can display those talents, we will never know what he is truely capable of. And maybe I am secretly hoping Dalpe succeeds because it will prove the Canes can actually develop somebody. There have really not been any examples of development success since what; Erik Cole? We need to find out if we can develop players or we need to adjust our strategy, because we have talent in the system and shouldn’t “blow” it.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 15, 2011 6:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I had a super duper tl:dr post above that I canceled because I saw this. Probably best for all there I killed that.

I don’t disagree with you on your assessment of what Dalpe can do. I would even say he has 60 point potential.

But see, this:

But until he is slotted in an area where he can display those talents, we will never know what he is truely capable of.

That’s just something I can’t agree with for someone who plays center. Wing, sure. PP specialist blue liner, definitely. But Center, a guy who by his very position is supposed to have a solid all around two-way game, that guy should be able to make things happen even with limited shifts if he’s truly talented.

I too would love to see that the team can develop a talent. After this camp I’m slightly less enthusiastic about those prospects than I was when JR’s extension were announced. Believe you me, if the JR extension were announced now I would not have the same opinion of it that I had when it was announced. As a matter of fact I would probably be of the mind that this re-build, even with the improvements on D, isn’t sufficient. That he should have to show he can make something more than Skinner and Sutter happen at forward, because if he can’t the tactic of not trading players at the deadline last year was a complete and utter failure and what he’s doing won’t pull the Canes out of this consistent 7 – 11 place finish and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 16, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

First off, I don’t get this argument because he’s not playing center.

Secondly, being a hockey player isn’t like any other job. If I only get a small amount of work, I can spend time on it and make it better, but hockey players need more time to get in a groove. The fourth line is for grinders and energy guys. Both Stewart and Dalpe are slotted wrong in that respect.

Finally, I’d say it’s a little early to give up on Dalpe (and others) and determine that all the team has for young forwards is Sutter and Skinner. Boychuk and Bowman are definitely reaching a crossroads, but guys like Nash and look like future NHLers, and we haven’t even talked about the wealth of defensive talent the team has accumulated.

by Cory Lavalette on Oct 17, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not arguing that he’s playing center, I’m arguing that because his background is playing center that he should be able to do some of the things that centers do, such as win a puck battle, etx. In re-reading my post above I realize that’s not very clear. I didn’t treat that as a stand alone post as PP17 and I had a few back and forths so I wasn’t as specific as I should have been.

As for the second point, shouldn’t the polishing have come in the AHL? As I said above, I’m not asking for a hat trick. I’m just looking for Dalpe to make me notice him when he’s out on the ice. I notice Dalpe is out on the ice (or did prior to injury) when Stewart or Brent did something and I remembered Dalpe was on that line.

In 5 games Dalpe had 53 shifts. That’s better than 10 a game, and probably closer to 12 every 60 minutes given that he was injured in the first period of the 5th game. How can he not do something to get himself noticed a couple of times a game. Where is the night where Forslund says in the wrap up or to Maniscalco on the Aftermath “Dalpe didn’t have a lot of ice time tonight, but I seemed to say his name every time he was out there.”

As to the last point, why is it if I think that he’s not ready for top 6 time right now that I’m giving up on Dalpe? How many times did I say I wanted him to succeed? I even was more optimistic of his potential point totals than PP17 who was arguing for more playing time now.

I would love nothing more than for Dalpe to be a solid, if young, top 6 forward. I think with the defense rounding in to form and the special teams starting to click the addition of one more top 6 guy to bump LaRose in to the bottom 6 would take this team great places. Think about a top 6 of Staal, Jussi, Ruutu, Skinner, Poni, and another legitimate guy. That’s an okay top 6 that would have the depth to make whatever second line is made a tough match up.

I want the guy to succeed. I really really want him to succeed. It would make the team better right now and it would restore my faith in the organizations ability to develop young players and spot talent outside of the top 15. I just don’t understand why asking him to prove it is such a bad thing. You appreciate that which is earned more than that which is given to you. Why not ask Dalpe to earn it instead of handing it to him? Isn’t that, ultimately, better for developing a player and teaching the proper work ethic?

For as much as many want to bash LaRose, when Mo was re-hired, LaRose was a healthy scratch the first game back. He used that as a motivating factor to give everything he had to show not only did he deserve to be in the game but he deserved to get playing time. He got back on the fourth line, gave it all he had, and got elevated. If LaRose can do it, why can’t Dalpe? Are we somehow saying that LaRose is more talented than Dalpe?

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 17, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

1) Understood what you meant … I’m just saying that he’s playing wing right now. It’s a position in which you can’t make as much of an impact in all three zones. By outting him on the fourth line, you’re basically setting him up for “don’t make a mistake” mentality.

2) It has nothing to do with polishing. It has to do with getting the opportunity to make an impact. And I do notice him nearly every shift he’s out there b/c I think he hustles and he’s doing the right things. But he’s playing with guys who are going to chip the puck in and go get it, whereas in a top-six role they’re going to run plays more conducive to scoring and creating opportunities.

3) You basically said Rutherford’s rebuild is a bust b/c they only have two forwards who have been developed. Isn’t that saying that the others aren’t going anywhere?

How can the guy prove anything in a few shifts a night? Did Skinner have to start on the fourth line and work his way up? Nope … he was in the top six. I’m not saying top six = Calder for Dalpe or that he’s comparable to Skinner in talent (few are), but look around the league at guys who are considered top-50 prospects and tell me how many of them get buried in six-minute-a-night roles. The Hodgsons, Connollys ect. are all in top-nine roles. Look at TOI for rookies this year — Dalpe is fifth from the bottom and is, by far, the most highly regarded guy of those five.

And they did the same thing to him last year.

by Cory Lavalette on Oct 17, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sequin

We criticize the Canes and how they develop young talent but how they were Dalpe is similar to the minutes and role that the Bruins had for Sequin who I’m sure we would all agree is a blue chip prospect. You will recall that he was even scratched from the start of playoffs and it wasn’t until injuries that he got his chance in the the Bruins cup run. Julien was criticized for his lack of use of Sequin all year….. look at how that turned out. Some of this is on the player to make the absolute best use of their chances.

by sittler27 on Oct 17, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seguin had two goals in 12 games last year when he played less than 10 minutes. Dalpe had — guess what — two goals in the 12 games he got less than 10 minutes last season.

Seguin has gotten better with opportunity. I think the same would be true of Dalpe.

by Cory Lavalette on Oct 17, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

look around the league at guys who are considered top-50 prospects and tell me how many of them get buried in six-minute-a-night roles.

This is where we don’t see eye to eye and this is what leads to the disagreement. You see Dalpe getting buried. I see him not differentiating himself. I believe that if a player is good enough to play in the top 6 that they will do something even with limited time to differentiate themselves. Not things like score a ton of goals or skate around an entire team. Little things, like end up with the puck on there stick coming out of a scrum more often than not, or put the puck in to a dangerous area, or negate a few plays at the blue line before they become chances, or find a team mate at an opportune time regardless of what said team mate does with the puck after he gets it. I believe the fundamentals, talent, and hockey sense will come through in those situations and the player will be able to make the case and earn additional time. If the player is good enough to play in the top 6 against top defenders and lines he should be able to do things on the fourth line. Tilt the ice in his teams favor more often than not.

I believe that ice time in the top 6 is precious and shouldn’t be handed out easily. So far the best reason given for Dalpe to play more isn’t that he’s earned it it’s that LaRose doesn’t deserve it. You won’t hear any complaints from me about getting LaRose out of the top 6, but that still leaves the question of who has most earned more time. Right now I’d have to say that Tlusty and Stewart have earned the time more than Dalpe. Stewart, in my opinion, is outplaying Dalpe so far on the season and he’s on the same line. Tlusty was left for dead before camp and has used his play to earn himself third line time. So bump Chad out of the top 6, but don’t tell me Dalpe is the player who has most earned more playing time.

3) You basically said Rutherford’s rebuild is a bust b/c they only have two forwards who have been developed. Isn’t that saying that the others aren’t going anywhere?

I think that’s a bit of an overstatement. I am worried about the ability to find and develop forward talent, and I think that’s valid with what we’ve seen of Boychuk and Dalpe. However, I’m not yet willing to call it a bust based on what we’ve seen of Skinner and Sutter.

Also, please tell me how many more times I need to say I like Dalpe so we can move past this “others aren’t going anywhere” you hate rookies thing. Just because I don’t think he’s working right now doesn’t mean I don’t think he can’t work. I think I’ve made that fairly evident when I said I think he can be a 60 point a year player, but if I need to do something else let me know so we can move past this.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 17, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

CL, respectfully, to paraphrase an old saying, “…making the same argument over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity.” I certainly understand and respect your opinion in regard to Dalpe’s handling/coaching (and Bowman’s last year), but must simply say, that it is okay to “agree to disagree”. There are those of us who intelligently and logically make the argument that Dalpe isn’t slotted correctly nor receiving the TOI to do the things that you would like to see. Together they provide an impediment….not a wall just a roadblock.

You logically and cogently make the argument that those players slotted on the 4th line regardless of skillset should be able to prove themselves in such a manner as to “earn” more ice time and a higher line slotting. Your points are also valid and well crafted…we just disagree.

In the end we all want to see these kids flourish and live up to their potential. The motivations, processes, and the “how’s” behind the manner in which that occurs are numerous. Let’s all just agree that is the end result we seek.

by NotOpie on Oct 17, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Dalpe isn’t slotted correctly nor receiving the TOI to do the things that you would like to see"

Really? Players can make an impact like the kind CL is talking about on a single shift.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t even understand your thinking on how there is concern about Dalpe. I get being concerned about Boychuk — and sometimes picks just don’t work out. But Boychuk got some extended top nine time and just didn’t get it done. Dalpe hasn’t had that opportunity. From where I sit, they’re completely different situations, especially when you consider last year was the first of Dalpe’s ELC. Boychuk is a concern b/c after this year they need to decide whether to recast or cut the line.

Furthermore, you didn’t address the fact that Skinner got top minutes from the get-go. Dalpe,IMO, was good enough in the preseason to get a shot at at least the third line to start the season, but he didn’t. I think our troubles with the team are different. You think there’s some kind of coaching problem when it comes to development, I think that, in this instance, it’s a situation where a guy who is deserving isn’t getting a chance.

by Cory Lavalette on Oct 17, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s the thing I just really don’t get. Last season, Boychuk & Bowman were given opportunities in the top 9; Boychuk even got a chance on the top line. Given that Dalpe is considered better than both of them, why hasn’t he at least gotten a shot in a real NHL game?

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 18, 2011 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Injuries and lack of talent. I think there is more talent on the team this year than last, especially the first few months of the last season. Last year there were times LaRose was in the top 6 because he was legitimately one of the 6 best forwards on the team, at least one of the 6 best vets. Same can’t be said now. There were also times when Jussi and others missed time. A lot of the time the young players got to play in the top 9 came in January and February which is when Jussi missed time if I’m not mistaken.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So then what is the excuse for LaRose being in the top 6 this season? If we are more talented this season, how can Mo put a bottom 6 guy on the top line?

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 18, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s one of two B’s: Blackmail or Binky.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

You think there’s some kind of coaching problem when it comes to development

Where did I say anything about coaching?

There was a spot in the top 6 open for any young player that was able to grab the brass ring. JR thought enough of his players to believe that one or multiple would legitimately compete for that. He opted to spend extra money on a blue liner (Kaberle over Corvo) as opposed to finding another top 6 guy. He was then dissapointed with the level of competition in camp at forward that he said something publicly (can’t find the exact quote right now, will look later). How is that not a mis-step?

This season is supposed to be very important. The team needs to qualify for the playoffs is what we’re hearing. JR didn’t have a great grasp on his forward talent. I’m not saying to get rid of the guy, but that’s a mistake that he made and it’s fair to put that on him.

Lord knows how happy I am with his drafting of blue liners and how that’s turning out. I remember talking with you on this board about the Skinner pick and passing up guys like Fowler and Gormley. You made a point about getting guys later and you were absolutely right about it. Then JR goes out and takes the present that is Murphy when it’s dropped in his lap this year. All that said, if this is is so important, and JR has built a team with 5 top 6 forwards isn’t that a fault?

As for the Skinner Dalpe comparison, how is Skinner even a corollary for Dalpe? But, since you say I must, Skinner, when given time in the top 6 in pre-season produced to such an extent that he made a strong case. Dalpe got that time this year and didn’t do a lot with it. He had good games early in the pre-season, but was pointless after the Charlotte Winnipeg game, including the next two games where he was in the top 6 (top line I believe), including a game he played with Staal. He was not only pointless, but a minus player as well, and quite frankly I didn’t think too much of him in the Nashville game, which was sad as Staal and Poni seemed to have some good chemistry which should have freed up more time and space for Dalpe.

And again, for the last time, I like Dalpe I think he has potential. I think he has the ability to be a 60 point producer. I just don’t think he’s there yet. I cannot be more clear on this issue. Simply tell me how many times I need to say these things so we can move beyond this. Just because I think he’s not ready now doesn’t mean I think he’s worthless. It simply means I don’t think he’s ready. I thought I had been clear on this issue.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If you think Dalpe has potential and the ability to be a 60 point producer, then why not try to develop that rather than bury it? It just doesn’t make sense to many of us to put him on the fourth line and play him 6 minutes a game, even if he had a couple of bad preseason games.

He’s a sniper, he’s not a fourth line grinder, and it’s doubtful that he’ll improve in his current situation.

Since he didn’t prove himself to you and doesn’t deserve top 9 time, what do you do with him? If he doesn’t show you enough on the fourth line, do you give up on him completely and send him back to the A?

He was one of the top goal scorers for the Checkers last year and he played better than any of the other rookies in camp. What does he have to do to deserve a shot? What should the Canes do to develop him and make him better?

Editing Manager of Canes Country.com

by Bob Wage on Oct 18, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

AGree, I’ve mentioned it before—all our other prospects have made similar comments in the press to the extent that when playing limited minutes on the 4th line under Mo, they will not try to do something they would do in the AHL or on a scoring line. They’ll play safe, chip the puck ahead, think defensive, no mistake hockey.

That’s not condusive to a shooter/scoring forward role, especially when Mo has shown, you make a mistake as a prospect, you get even less minutes. Boychuck, Bowman, Samson have all made these types of comments. it affects how they play, and stunts their true gifts.

You disagree, but it seems to most of us this is the reason why outside of lottery picks the org does a poor job of developing forward prospects…

by Squeaky83 on Oct 18, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

ll our other prospects have made similar comments in the press to the extent that when playing limited minutes on the 4th line under Mo

Link to a quote? I remember vaguely the Boychuk comment this summer about being unsure of what to do on the ice. You could start with that one and then build from there.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t remember reading anything Boychuk or Bowman said about the situation, but I do remeber reading something said by Samson in regards to that. I can’t remember where I read it, but I do think it was linked in some Canes Country Post.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 18, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

And as I've mentioned before...

If a player refuses to use his abilities, that’s on the player, not the coach.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you think Dalpe has potential and the ability to be a 60 point producer, then why not try to develop that rather than bury it?

How is it that when I say I don’t think he’s earned top 9 play that gets interpreted as I want to bury him? Please clarify that. This is a false dichotomy that many on this board have bought in to that I simply do not. Just because he’s not ready now doesn’t mean he’s being buried. We’re not talking about an ex 50 goal scorer. We’re talking about a rookie with 3 goals and 1 assist in 20 games. As PP17 pointed out to me all 3 goals came in a five game stretch in January last season.

Also, I would say that rushing development can be equally as bad for a player.

He’s a sniper, he’s not a fourth line grinder, and it’s doubtful that he’ll improve in his current situation.

I would say that being in the NHL and being around the rest of the players has some positives for him.

If he doesn’t show you enough on the fourth line, do you give up on him completely and send him back to the A?

Tell me how it’s giving up on a player to send a guy in the second year of his ELC back to the AHL? I seem to recall many people saying how great it was for Eric Staal’s development that the lockout occurred when it did and he was able to play his second year in the AHL. What’s good for the golden goose isn’t good for the gander?

What does he have to do to deserve a shot?

Be less invisible. Make himself noticed. I’ve said above, win some puck battles, end up with the puck on his stick, make a few good outlets passes, put the puck in a dangerous position, beat a third pair d-man. Seriously, outside of the two early pre-season games, what has he done? What’s his claim to a top 6 role other than a goal in the first pre-season game or a couple of points against a split-squad Jets team that was playing a number of games that weekend and just last night got there first win of the season? Where is the objective analysis of his game play? I don’t know about you, but I’m not hearing Forslund talk about Dalpe’s play during games and I’m not hearing Maniscalco talk about him on the aftermath or hearing callers talk about him.

What should the Canes do to develop him and make him better?

They could return him to the AHL after the injury, but honestly I kind of like him right where he is. With Brent and Stewart on the fourth line there is plenty of talent there. Stewart’s size should be able to free up some space, especially against third pairs and fourth lines. Brent can feed him the puck. If he’s truly capable of being a top 6 sniper he should be able to get the time and space he needs to make something happen against those line.

He can learn a lot from being with the team and he can get the chance to prove himself. A field promotion to injury or say having Staal come on early so he gets a chance to play part of a shift or two with Staal could help him.

As with Staal last year, as soon as Dalpe turns it on and shows he deserves it I’ll be at the front of the line saying he should get more playing time. Objectively, right now, I can’t say he deserves to be in the top 9 and I can’t say that guys like Tlusty and Stewart should be passed over for Dalpe.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

CL, I just want to point out that I don’t have a problem with your point of view on Dalpe. I don’t agree with it, but your opinion has validity; as do I feel mine does also.

The bottom line is that some here believe Dalpe has the talent to be a legit scoring threat for this team, but until he is “given/earn” his shot; he is being wasted in a role that does not fit his abilities. I just don’t understand the thought process of playing a scorer on the 4th line, when our top 2 lines desperately appear to be needing another scorer.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 18, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

CL, I just want to point out that I don’t have a problem with your point of view on Dalpe. I don’t agree with it, but your opinion has validity; as do I feel mine does also.

Completely agree. Honestly, this has been a fun back and forth.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Staal and Dalpe’s situations are different. Dalpe has already played one year in the AHL. Is he going to improve and get that much better in year two? Maybe, maybe not. If Staal had stayed in the A for year two, the Canes don’t win the Cup. That’s a bad comparison.

Nothing wrong with him playing with Brent and Stewart, but he needs more than 6 minutes a night to improve. Period. I think anyone would agree with that.

You have obviously made up your mind and rehashing it 100 times on 5 different threads isn’t going to change anyone else’s mind either. (shrugs)

Editing Manager of Canes Country.com

by Bob Wage on Oct 18, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have obviously made up your mind and rehashing it 100 times on 5 different threads isn’t going to change anyone else’s mind either. (shrugs)

Didn’t realize me posting was a problem. Sorry my bad.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

You changed my mind. Or probably more importantly, you validated my opinion on the matter and voiced it more eloquently than I could. If it helps.

Blind optimist and Kool-Aid drinker

by Jamie Kellner on Oct 18, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks!

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously, you posting is not a problem. Sorry if it sounded that way.

We’ll see what happens with Dalpe, it is an interesting topic.

Editing Manager of Canes Country.com

by Bob Wage on Oct 18, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

by the way, my (shrugs) means you can keep rehashing it as much as you want. I guess you are changing people’s minds or validating their opinions, or whatever, and I am incorrect with my assumption.

I’ll be working on a related article soon for even more rehashing.

Out of curiosity, did you think Faulk justified his “top 4” minutes to start off the season?

Editing Manager of Canes Country.com

by Bob Wage on Oct 18, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the explanation.

I did like Faulk’s game better than Dalpe’s, particularly in the last week of the pre-season. Faulk seems to play bigger than himself. He’s listed as 6-0, but the way he skates and carries himself I would say he’s 6-2. He seemed to make smarter plays. Maybe was a bit more confident with the puck.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you're interested in another thought on the matter...

I think Faulk “flashed” top-four ability and consistency far more than Dalpe did, though he also showed some of the defensive lapses which plagued him before he started being scratched. Dalpe just kind of took what was given to him.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is it fair to say Faulk received more of an opportunity to flash said skills?

by Cory Lavalette on Oct 19, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not during the preseason, not really.

I think Dalpe got plenty of time in the preseason with varied linemates and solid TOI (as opposed to his regular season treatment.) He also just wasn’t as aggressive as I would have expected a player in his situation to be (4 shots in 5 games compared to a guy like Skinner, who had 13 in the same number of games.)

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 19, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too.

I’m on board with everything you’re saying regarding prospect development/role-making.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

You don't develop players by setting them up for failure.

If Dalpe’s game is not ready, he shouldn’t be thrown to the wolves simply because he will probably be good some day. See Faulk, Justin for a good reason why that doesn’t work out. Further, sending a 22-year-old to the AHL to continue to “develop” as you suggest is in no way “giving up on him completely.”

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

2010 Preseason: Skinner played 4 games, had 1 goal, and 1 assist. (Dalpe also had an assist in the 2010 preseason)

2011 Preseason: Dalpe played 5 games, had 1 goal, and 2 assists. (Skinner did not score)

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 18, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is this really the best line of reasoning for playing Dalpe? It worked for Skinner therefore it must work for Dalpe. Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t most of us on this board talking about how close Skinner was to putting it all together last pre-season? Weren’t we all talking about his remarkable game play and his ability to handle himself on the ice like someone who was much older than 18? Has the level of talk about Dalpe been anywhere near that?

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I was just refuting your argument that Skinner; “produced to such an extent that he made a strong case.”

The numbers would indicate that Dalpe did just as much to make a strong case. And there was a lot of talk this preseason about Dalpe being a Calder candidate and how is numbers would be really good if he played on a line with Eric Staal. But since being put on the 4th line in the last preseason game and so on, the Calder talk has died down to pretty much nothing.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 18, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve been warned about “rehashing this” so I’m just going to move on. But thanks for the time and your insight and input. Good stuff.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t say you have been warned. But you are talking in circles a bit in an attempt to drive your point home. Is it fair to say you the impetus on any of the prospects, rather than the coaching staff?

I think that’s where the disagreement lies. Some teams let there guys learn by giving them a chance to make mistakes and also succeed. The Canes have almost had an all or nothing with Dalpe. Confidence is an important thing, and my concern is they are messing with Dalpe’s. Now, he’s hurt and will have to get back into game shape and will be behind the eight ball for half a season.

by Cory Lavalette on Oct 18, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cory,

   The idea of putting Dalpe or Boychuk on the fourth line for five minutes a game and then suggesting neither are goal scorers because they can’t score goals at will during their small amount of time on the ice is a hard premise for anybody to defend. I agree with you and Bob as it relates to Dalpe. He is a very talented player. I do believe that given the skill sets of Brent and Stewart Dalpe all three could provide offense if given more time on the ice.

   I totally disagree with Maurice on his handling of the skilled forwards like Dalpe. For example, I don’t understand why it is just peachy keen for LaRose to take high sticking penalties in the offensive end without losing ice time, or make other positioning mistakes without consequence in terms of the ice time he receives; but if a young prospect makes a much less serious mistake in judgment, he’s left to hug the bench. I’ve been able to watch the games much more closely since Maurice returned, and there is no doubt in my mind that he has his hierarchy. Some players can make boneheaded plays and that is written off as excess enthusiasm while others are on a very short leash.

   It is Maurice’s right as head coach to put in whoever for as long as he wants. His neck is on the line. I happen to think his approach is far from ideal in terms of actually using the talent at his disposal. In part, the reason may be that for the 900 games he has coached as a head coach for the Hurricanes, he has not had to deal very often with having so many talented young forwards. It’s not his comfort zone apparently.

by abramsdoug on Oct 18, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

To clarify one point. I am not saying LaRose always makes boneheaded plays and nobody else has ever made a mistake. I would contrast, however, Dwyer’s ability to play a fast, sound defensive game with a minimum amount of penalties with LaRose’s propensity for taking bad penalties. I think Dwyer is far better at avoiding mental lapses.

by abramsdoug on Oct 18, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Must resist urge to engage Doug.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dwyer is also less involved in the game on a play-to-play basis.

LaRose’s penalties and mistakes often come as a result of his effort, particularly from his willingness to hit. I think one of the main reasons Dwyer doesn’t get penalized as often is because he simply plays a less active game.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I would say the emphasis is on the player, but don’t forget two things:

1) The standard I’m looking for isn’t so high that a player with limited minutes couldn’t still show it. I’m not looking for a hat trick, I’m just looking for the puck to end up on his stick more often than not coming out of scrums and for smart things that shows he understands the team plan but also show his skill. I don’t think that’s unattainable.

2) There’s the issue of Stewart and Tlusty who I think have earned additional playing time more than Dalpe has. LaRose in the top 6 is not a great idea, and I’m all for him playing a bottom 6 role. I think when LaRose gets in to the top 6 he tries to do too much which leads to problems. So if we move LaRose down I’m okay with that, but I’d rather Tlust or Stewart get the PT as I think they’ve earned it more.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 18, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's always nice to earn confidence by succeeding for yourself.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

There was a big difference in those two kinds of "talk" when it came to evaluating those two prospects.

Dalpe’s buzz came from a combination of things, among them:

  • AHL production (notoriously unreliable when it comes to projecting immediate NHL ability)
  • Opportunity, and the amount that he’d get on what was seen as an offensively deficient team. At 2-2-1 and ranking 16th in goals per game, but 28th in goals allowed, I would say that the issue has a lot more to do with defense than offense at this point.
  • Skillset. He’s a very talented player who can do a lot of things well on the ice.

However, none of these things really was based on how he was playing (and not necessarily “producing” statistically) against NHL competition. Skinner came into the league as a CHL unknown and was turning heads from training camp through the preseason, not in how many points he was racking up, but by how good, skilled, and ready he looked. Dalpe didn’t have a lot of buzz once they actually started putting skates to ice this summer, although he obviously was our best young player, and one who did earn a roster spot, even if people think he’s not being used properly.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stats alone are kind of a silly way to evaluate a player's ability, aren't they?

Particularly when you’re talking about just a handful of games, and particularly when you’re talking about the preseason and the level of competition and effort on both sides is so inconsistent. Skinner played special last year, even if the scorebook didn’t show it. Further, he was a +1 during his four games, while Dalpe was a -2.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Skinner was a +1 compared to Dalpe’s -2. But the Canes as a whole scored 8 and allowed 7 in the 2010 preseason, compared to scoring 11 and allowing 14 in the 2011 preseason.

So the stats there are skewed also.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 18, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone explain this to me. If Sutter is our best faceoff man why is Staal always out there for the crucial faceoff’s….which is nearly always loses.

The line assignments are slowing moving to what they should have always been. They wont be complete until LaRose makes it to the 4th line and stops being out there for a PP.

by rmmeli on Oct 15, 2011 12:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I’ve always wondered that myself. I think there are 2 ways to look at the situation: 1. you want your best player out there at crucial moments. (But, the glaring problem with this scenario is when he loses the faceoff, his line if forced to play defense for at least 1/2 shift to get the puck back.) 2. It just wouldn’t do to NOT have the captain out there, even if that decision has a glaring downside.

I’d say Staal is inconsistent in the faceoff circle. Some games he does well. What I look at is when he loses the faceoff, does he fight through the opposing center to get himself back into position to intercept a pass, make a check, etc.

Harrumph

by ivyleager on Oct 16, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Coaching issue. We have oodles of them.

by JussiJuice on Oct 16, 2011 10:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

HUGE WIN

Huge win last night. Gleason and Allen were beasts. Great to see the d getting more physical. Still need to work on staying out of the penalty box. Giving teams 7 PP is ridiculous. Someone ought to tell Mo to start cutting the ice times of players who keep taking stupid penalties, especially you CHAD LAROSE. Does anyone know if Staal is playing at 100%. Seems to me he fighting something. He’s slow to get up when knock down and was beaten badly back down the ice when the Sabres scored to make it 2 to 1. If he is hurt need to rest him. He can’t be playing hurt all season especially if we need him if we make the playoffs.

by skinnerthewinner on Oct 15, 2011 4:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Chad LaRose

There might be some players on this team who are either very stupid or extremely untalented players on this team, but no one combines the two as much as LaRose. It is quite amazing how useless LaRose is.

by Kahz on Oct 15, 2011 5:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Another Carolina style win, 100% effort and outstanding goaltending. Though with considerable skill on the shorthanded goals.

Mo countdown (needs to be +5 (or maybe +4) after 25 games: Even, 20 games left.

I thought Poni tipped in that first goal.

by LewPuls1 on Oct 15, 2011 7:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree about Poni tipping the goal. I was surprised that they gave it to Harrison. It looked like it changed trajectory slightly in the video. I guess they just weren’t sure (can’t they ask?).

by hurricane9 on Oct 15, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Non-Hurricanes related and its early in the season, but the Isles and Tavares look like they might make some noise this season. And Toronto is starting the season out strong, let’s see if they keep it up.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 15, 2011 9:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Think the twigs would take Mo back?….for Kessel?

LOL

A

Getting old sucks!

by Paladin6 on Oct 15, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just a thought....

Dave Lewis missed the first two games. He has been behind the bench the last three. It seems the team defense has looked better and more organized since his return. Is that a coincidence? I am not sure myself. I am simply making an observation. Any thoughts?

by KenRab on Oct 16, 2011 10:06 AM EDT via mobile reply actions   1 recs

I think you’re completely right. The defense looked all over the place in the first two games and some of the third, and they have worked very well since then. The pairings also changed dramatically, which resulted in the beastly Allen/Gleason pairing. And I think Lewis had a large influence of getting Faulk out of the line-up, as after the 3rd game, Maurice said he was happy with the defense and wouldn’t change anything, and then McBain was suddenly in.

by hurricane9 on Oct 16, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hmmm

I think so too. Lewis really strikes me as a no nonsense man with a plan. JR’s way of saying Mo, you have competition too. The more I see of Lewis, the more I feel the Detroit defensive system. That could start to lead to the fast break, quick hit, possession offense that Detroit runs too. Scotty Bowman influence…

I am cautiously optimistic about the dynamic that Lewis brings. The team certainly has played opportunistic hockey and against some good teams. I hope that this is a developing trend.

by KenRab on Oct 16, 2011 11:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I’m just catching up on this, but did Decock really suggest that Pitkanen might be a trade possibility for the Canes? I can understand that Joni can be frustrating, but I would MUCH, MUCH rather trade Kaberle than Pitkanen. I think Pits is more of a complete defenseman than Kabs and he is at least coming into his prime rather than beyond his prime. Sorry, I just couldn’t believe what I read when we have Kaberle on our team.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 16, 2011 3:01 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Falls into the unfounded rumor department

That is an unfounded rumor. Let’s face it, someone plus going to get hurt on Defense. JR signed Pits because he is an elite player. He will not trade that guy. Unless someone throws a big return at him. I don’t see any movement until at least game 20. We have been burned before because of lack of depth. That will not be the case this season.

I find Pits to be very dependable and rarely makes a bad decision with the puck. He is clearly part of the solution not the problem. Not to mention the minutes he eats. I would like them to cut him back a little. Overall he is a high end … High impact … Posession type of defenseman with an offensive side in the clutch… How does anyone trade that??? Simple… You don’t!

by KenRab on Oct 16, 2011 3:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

will talk about this in an article I’m writing tonight.

Editing Manager of Canes Country.com

by Bob Wage on Oct 16, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trades go two ways.

You can’t dump an expensive, old, crappy player and expect to get anything back. Particularly relative to an expensive (but at least reasonably compensated), young, decent player in his prime.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 17, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would be willing to take back a piece of crap with a bad contract if it might it would expire after this season.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 17, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but what would be in that deal for the other team?

How desperate would you have to be to take on Kaberle’s deal with the way he’s actually played for his last two teams?

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 17, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey C-L,

Since you ain’t afraid of putting Staal on the wing what ya think about:

Poni, Skinner, Jussi
Ruutu, Sutter, Staal
Tlusty, Stewart, Dwyer
Brent, LaRose, **Insert*** for Dalpe

I think Skinner is more of a threat at this moment. Sutter is by far the best two way guy so he can cover Staals inability to Face Off and skate toward the D zone after laying on the ice. It also gives Staal maybe a little more room to work facing second lines.

 If you look at the elite teams Staal would be a third line center on Detroit, Vancouver, Pittsburg, Washington along with a couple others and he’d be a second line center on most all of the other teams that made the PO’s last year.

 Maybe play him and Skinner, who’s got the hot stick like any other team would…?

 Not Staal bashing, either, the guy is a pure O-zone offense guy and is prolly a PPG guy. Skinners numbers dwarf Staals, let Skinner carry the load while he’s on. Swapping a second and first line guy is rather easy at any point on any shift, but may use the more exper. Staal to face one step down forwards (he’s still gonna eat first line D men or be eaten). Sutter may take some pressure off Staal in FO’s and knowing when to skate the other way. Let Skinner be Skinner, the kids hot.

 It ain’t like any line combo isn’t fair game with MO, heck the LaRose thing, wtf? Anywho, I’m kinda all for a less than elite team trying to use whos hot and fill in where you can.

A

Getting old sucks!

by Paladin6 on Oct 16, 2011 9:17 PM EDT reply actions  

BTW, too many leftys.

A

Getting old sucks!

by Paladin6 on Oct 16, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just because you put Staal on the 2nd line wouldn’t mean other teams would match him with their 2nd line. I suspect that your 2nd line would still probably draw the opposing team’s top defensive pairing.

And while Staal might not be the #1 center on most elite teams, I pretty sure he would not be their 3rd line center. On those teams, he would probably be converted to wing; but would most likely still be a top line guy.

And how has Skinner just popped up as a #1 center. I think he might get a chance at center soon, but the kid has very, very little experience as center in the NHL. He might be able to do it, but saying he could do it is sheer conjecture at this point. And if you watch the first 5 games this season, Skinner has about as many defensive lapses as Staal has.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 16, 2011 9:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Appears we pretty much agree except on Skinner. The kid leads the team in points. Staal has never been able to shake the double team he gets, not all his fault either. He gets the best lines all the other teams have. I’m thinking throw Skinner and a bag of pucks on the ice and he scores, cool, pretty much what you want on first line. So let Skinner get the exper. while he’s hot. Maybe you get a good change or two and Staal get’s a chance to shine.

 I think Skinner can score on any line from any position. It’s what he seems to do. Be nice to get the other high dollar guys bangin’ out goals too. Was kinda my point, not so much the actual lines. Maybe he is just warming up? Dunno. Gotta get more production out of the team however.

 I guess “In Mo we trust”?

That just felt wrooooong.

A

Getting old sucks!

by Paladin6 on Oct 17, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think we’re not quite on the same page here. What I’m trying to say is that we can call whichever line the 1st line, that really doesn’t matter. What matters is which line opposing teams put their defensive group out against. Hell, you could call Staal’s line the 4th, but I bet their still going to see a lot of the Chara pairing & probably a lot of the Bergeron line.

The best thing is my opinion is to surround Staal & Skinner with complimentary talent, that is how to get the most production out of both.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 17, 2011 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

But that will always be a struggle for a cap floor team.

Top-six wings simply aren’t cheap or, for that matter, readily available.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 17, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I realize that. The point I was trying to make is classifying Skinner as the 1st line instead of Staal make no difference as to which lines other teams line up against them.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 17, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Truth...

I was responding to your tagline about surrounding your stars with players to compliment them.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 17, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW, those lines above I was listing the centers first, then the wings. Should have specified.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 17, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wouldn't break up Checking Line

Keep Tlusty, Sutter and Dwyer together. A heck of a lot of negativity on this board even though we beat Boston and Buffalo. I know looking at the schedule I would have taken 4 points in the 4 road games. (Buff, Bos, St Louis, Winn). Maybe we pull an Avs road trip?

Desperation from Game Four......let's not wait until the end!

by Mullett on Oct 17, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

he can cover Staals inability to Face Off and skate toward the D zone after laying on the ice


I just about had milk come out my nose on that one!

by 210beer on Oct 17, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Umm...Tlusty at center?

When is the last time he played the position? And I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Staal’s position on the top teams.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 17, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

So I listed Centers first, and I’m thinking Paladin listed his lines as wing – Center – wing.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Oct 17, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would Stewart be any better, then?

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 17, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Left shots

That is because the majority of Canadian and European players shoot left. Remember those great Soviet teams from the 80s…… on some every player shot left. If you look at many of the great players over the years the large majority were lefties. Interesting, the USA is the only place that develops players where it is about even.

by sittler27 on Oct 16, 2011 10:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Staal as a Wing

I’ve been adamant that Staal needs a scoring wing; but recently I am starting to wonder if Staal isn’t a natural wing under the Dave Lewis approach and that the solution is to groom or find a first line center for Staal. I thought Staal and Crosby were pretty intensely unstoppable together. Your thoughts?

by abramsdoug on Oct 17, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just asking a question here. Would Skinner have been able to stop Roy from scoring a goal? I think Staal is faster than Skinner. Could Sutter be a 1st line center? That’s possible, but he would greatly need to improve his scoring.

Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."

by PackPride17 on Oct 17, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some merit

There is some merit to putting Staal on the wing much the way the Pens sometimes use Crosby and Malkin when they need offence. Staal has not been great on faceoffs over hsi career and many of his goals come with him coming off the far hash marks on the offensive zone of down low. He also is a true north/ south player and not the best at distributing the puck. So paring him with an elite center would no doubt be good for him and the center. He is also not the best at coming back to cover the high slot for the D.

But it is a tough position for the team. He is your franchise forward and captain. He has earned the right to have a say in his role on the team. And when he is on, he is a beast. I have always thought that because big guys are so lanky and sometimes a bit awkward that they come under greater scrutiny than the smaller finesse guys who just look smoother. Joe Thornton got run out of Boston because of these concerns. They criticized Sundin in Toronto. Heck even Jean Beliveau was sometimes criticized in Montreal for “cruising”. And remember that Lemieux was once criticized as an offensive zone only player, until people started to better appreciate his game. Malkin is sometimes invisible and then he kills you.

Some of the criticism of Staal may be warranted but others is over the top. He does a lot of things very well and it is always with extra attention from the other team. That is one of the reasons why I don’t like LaRose with him. When Cole was there you had to respect his inside/outside move and speed and his courage in going to the net. It gave Staal space. No other team is going to worry much about LaRose so Staal gets the full focus of the other team’s shut down D, a strong forward and one other cheating to cut down his lanes because frankly they would gladly have the puck on LaRose’s stick. I still think the answer is if you get the right offensive threat on Staal’s right side and you leave Skinner on the left you could have one of the most potent lines in the league. Could you imagine having put Brad Richards on Staal’s right side.

by sittler27 on Oct 17, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Loved Staal on the wing in the Olympics with Crosby as his center. He didn’t seem out of place at all.

Editing Manager of Canes Country.com

by Bob Wage on Oct 17, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who WOULDN'T look good with Crosby as their center.

Fact is, he ain’t walkin’ through that locker room door.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the detailed response. I was wondering for example whether Skinner at center and Staal at wing might work. Obviously, the better the third forward on the Staal/Skinner line the more dangerous they become. I’d split Skinner and Staal. I also think Staal gets more than his share of criticism. I agree as well with your observations about lanky athletes. I recall a story about Eric Dickerson being told by the head coach that he was “coasting.” He said, “run with me coach.” They started on a 100 yard dash and Dickerson smoked the coach. Dickerson then said, “I have long legs, I just look like I’m not running hard.”

    Still, my thought is that the Hurricanes might have to think creatively with Staal unless as an organization they increase the salary budget to the point they can afford a player like Brad Richards or a player such as Rask or Dalpe develop into an NHL all-star.

by abramsdoug on Oct 17, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could not imagine Richards on Staal's right side.

Not unless he had come through on triple re-entry waivers (yes, I know they don’t exist.

Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Oct 18, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

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