Game Analysis: Hurricanes At Bruins
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 19, 2011 11:40 AM EDT
in Carolina Hurricanes 2011-2012 Game Analysis
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For the second time this season the Carolina Hurricanes toppled the defending Stanley Cup champions, winning in Boston, 4-1, in a penalty-filled affair that saw Bruins coach Claude Julien tossed from the game and several of his players penalized for losing their cool.
It took a while for the Canes to capitalize on Boston's lack of discipline, but in the end Carolina notched two 5-on-3 goals to put away the B's.
Three Observations
2. The Hurricanes finished the game with two third-period 5-on-3 power play tallies, but coach Paul Maurice's choices for an earlier 5-on-3 were curious. Tim Brent, who is now riding a three-game point streak, joined Eric Staal and three other forwards on the first unit to take the faceoff for a pivotal 5-on-3 with the game at 2-1. Brent does have experience as one of the point men on the power play, but he was instead pushed off the left side boards, hardly a place where his shot can be utilized. Brent has had an amazing start to his Hurricanes career and even has the ability to contribute at the top of the power play unit, but tucking him to the side not only casts him in an improper role, but also keeps other players off the ice in a crucial moment in the game.
3. Cam Ward continues to lead by example. His show-stopping saves in the game's opening minute set the tone for the night, and his confrontation with Chara — followed by him shrugging off a possible fight with Tuukka Rask — perfectly illustrates why Ward is one of the team's leaders. His willingness to make big plays when needed, stick up for a teammate, and knowing the time and place for aggression are examples of leadership that every player in the league can look to as a way to conduct one's self on the ice.
Number To Know
2.59 — Goals per 60 minutes of 5-on-5 play for Anthony Stewart, far and away the most of any Hurricanes player. It also ranks 16th in the NHL through Tuesday's games. The 7:44 Stewart is averaging per night is the least of any Carolina player who has suited up in all six games, but his ability to finish around the net should earn him more ice time, be it on a different line or in an increased role for the immensely effective fourth line.
Plus
Joni Pitkanen — Pitkanen's on-the-rush, second-period laser that beat Rask widened Carolina's lead to 2-0 and was the second time this season that the Finnish defenseman has scored. With the emergence of Justin Faulk, the intrigue surrounding Ryan Murphy, and the addition of Tomas Kaberle all drawing attention this preseason, Pitkanen's return with a new contract was an afterthought on the Hurricanes defense. Pitkanen is opening eyes now as he is tied for the team lead in points (six, with Jeff Skinner) and is tops in ice time (24:04).
Minus
Jeff Skinner — For the third straight game, it's hard to find any fault with anyone in the Canes lineup. But since we need one, we'll look to Skinner. The 19-year-old forward was battered and bruised by the Bruins and seemed to get frustrated with the liberties the Boston players were taking with him. Andrew Ference and Dennis Seidenberg both seemed determine to rattle Carolina's star winger, and Skinner's high sticking penalty to Ference didn't necessarily look like an accident. In the end, Skinner drew enough attention to disrupt the Bruins and contribute to their frustration, but it was one of the few times in his career that No. 53 has looked flustered by physical intimidation.
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so many dirty captions for that photo of gleason and horton, so little time…
Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."
by Sergeant Stinky on Oct 19, 2011 12:38 PM EDT reply actions
I am very encouraged by Joni’s early season performance.
And he is doing it with a minute or two less TOI than he used to, which along with Staal getting lower TOI than we have seen in the past will hopefully pay dividends in the late season.
If our defense can continue this solid performance the Canes will make some serious noise this season when our offensive stars start clicking.
Better D but still too many SOG allowed
Yes, Joni and the other D have all improved. I guess the credit should go to new coach Lewis. But the team is still giving up way too many SOG as they did last year. They will never rise above mediocrity if they can’t reverse this trend. Love Skinner’s tenacity and creativity but he still has a lot to learn about play in his own end. And Staal is either nursing an injury or not going to return to the strides he made last year defensively. Sutter16 is by far the MVP so far. If things continue as they have been, I would not be surprised to see Staal moved to a wing with Sutter as center on the top line. Sutter has earned top line minutes and that gets Staal out of the FO circle where he is suffering.
Sutter, the MVP?
The kid on pace for another 35-point season? And you want him on the top line? Wow.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 20, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Stuff
Awesome analysis as usual! I agree with you about Stewart – i was high on him beginning the year because of his net presence and willingness to score some dirty goals. I would love to see him get some power play time. If he could get some time in front of the net (screening the goalie/chipping at rebounds) I think it could benefit the Canes.
Follow me on Twitter @LeePhillips18
Not only didn’t Carolina leave Beantown with two points, they walked away with their dignity. The same can’t be said of the Bruins.
+1000000
In regards to Skinner, maybe we need an enforcer who can actually deter. We haven’t had that in ages if ever. He’ll fight his own battles, but I’d prefer he didn’t.
Some serious roid rage in that game. I wonder if the league will do anything. I like the hits and fights as much as the next guy, but the Broons and their fans just didn’t seem to get it.
But who sits for an enforcer? It’s hard to make a case for anyone being out of the lineup right now. Allen, Gleason and Harrison can handle those duties, as needed, IMO.
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 19, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, they don’t need an enforcer to put on his line, but it would be nice if we had a Hartnell like forward in lineup – someone who doesn’t take any sh*t who can also play. If Brett Sutter had more skill his character would be perfect. Given what we have, I think it would go a long way if one of Gleason/Harrison/Allen goes after the next guy that takes a shot Skinner. Did anyone notice what Thorton did to Brett Sutter the first shift after the Corvo hit.
The issue, IMO, is there isn’t a forward who really fights. And if one of your D does it, that brings you down to five d-men. In that way, they miss Kostopoulos.
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 19, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t seem like many games go like this any more. Our lineup is much tougher than it was a year ago but no fighters up front. If it came to that we could see ourselves down a couple of guys on the back end. TKO was good to have from that standpoint, even if he didn’t win many fights. I haven’t seen Brett Sutter enough to know if he can fight…. but he’s a Sutter so no doubt he’ll drop them if necessary.
I give him credit for swinging away with that sweater over his head. I am sure he’d embrace the role if it meant staying in the NHL.
Brett Sutter
Brett Sutter makes up with enthusiasm what he lacks in fighting technique. He is not the least bit afraid to drop the gloves and he fights to win rather than make a point. I really like what he brings to the fourth line. As you have commented, Brett Sutter has a solid all-around game.
Sutter would have to go back down once Dalpe returns because Sutter was an injury call-up. Then to bring him up again, I believe he would have to go through re-entry waivers.
Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."
Re-entry means re-entry to the NHL. You can claim a player for full price on waivers if they’re being sent down (see Carson last year) and claim them for half price if they’re coming up (with the original team responsible for the other half). The caveat is you have to put the player you claimed on your NHL roster.
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 19, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
So, we could potentially lose Sutter if some team decided to pick him up before we could sign him, and also have to pay half his salery? That’s not good. What about Dalphe? Doeshis status as a rookie allow us to send him back and forth without having to deal with this re-entry stuff? Kinda confusing, huh?
- If they bring Dalpe back as soon as he’s healthy (or as soon as he’s completed an up-to-14-day rehab assignment in Charlotte) and send back Sutter, no waivers, all good.
- If they assign Dalpe to Charlotte, he would not be exposed to waivers on the way up or down given his lack of NHL experience and the short length of his professional career. That would mean, however, that Sutter was no longer on emergency assignment.
- If Sutter was kept with the Hurricanes on non-emergency assignment, they would have to then waive him. Every other team would have a chance to claim him and pay his full salary, but he would have to stay on their NHL roster. If they wanted to send him down to their AHL affiliate, they’d have to waive him, too, which would give us the chance to get him back.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 19, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t there some exception to re-entry waivers if the player in question is making less than 105K in the AHL? Sutter would still have to pass through waivers to come up, but I don’t think the Canes would be responsible for half his salary.
When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.
Dalpe isn’t waiver eligible. He can be sent down or brought back up without passing through waivers given his age and the low number of games he’s played.
When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.
So, if Sutter is a better fit for this situation, why wouldn’t we just “swap” the two players out until a different fit for Dalphe came up?
Once Dalpe is ready to play, the rules state that Sutter must be returned to Charlotte. Now if there was another injury, we could simply recall him again under the injury waiver-exempt status; but there is no certainity to that.
Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."
But Dalpe can go on a conditioning stint if he hits the IL.
That can last for up to two weeks.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 19, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The only way the Canes can avoid putting Sutter42 on waivers to send him back to Charlotte is if they do it when Dalpe is healthy enough to play. Otherwise he loses his status as an emergency call up. There is some risk that someone would pick up Sutter42 for their NHL club.
When Dalpe is healthy, Sutter42 goes back to Charlotte, unless they decide to keep him in the NHL for the remainder of the season. Which is possible.
They can move Dalpe back and forth without waivers.
I wrote a lengthy post on the Waivers process last July, if you’d like to go through it. If not you, maybe others will find it helpful. Hurricanes Roster Waiver Map: How to get to Raleigh from Charlotte and back
And there is no “H” in Dalpe.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Oct 19, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Canes acquired Jokinen in a trade though he had been on waivers we did not claim him. Rutherford needed to dump salary, so Tampa Bay took Brookbank and Melichar of the Carolina payroll.
The Canes did claim Samsonov off waivers from Chicago.
The Flyers claimed Leighton off re-entry waivers 2 years ago, and Carolina was on the hook for half his salary the remainder of his contract which was only one season.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Oct 19, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Sutter doesn’t have to go through re-entry waivers. His AHL salary is 75k, which is below the 105k cut-off for re-entry.
If they put Dalpe on the injury list, they could buy themselves two weeks with a conditioning stint.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 19, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Dalpe
I think Dalpe is fantastic; but having said that, the tea leaves are pointing toward Dalpe being sent back to Charlotte to get more TOI. I wouldn’t do that if I were in charge. I’d move Dalpe into the top nine; however, to keep Dalpe and Brett Sutter would mean healthy scratching somebody else. That situation to me suggests strongly that Sutter will stay on the fourth line and Dalpe will go get big minutes in Charlotte.
I think Brett fits the 4th line much better than Dalpe. But I am also a big believer in lines having roles. Brett played very well last night, had an assist, and got into a fight. You can’t ask much more of a 4th line grinder, except maybe play on the PK.
Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."
by PackPride17 on Oct 19, 2011 7:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sadly agree
Dalpe is top 9 talent. If Mo doesn’t want to play him there then I agree he needs to be in Charlotte playing in the top 3 or 6 and getting TOI in every situation, just like Faulk. Sutter42 is more suited to a 4th line role, so if Sutter sticks in that capacity and Mo just can’t find the clarity to shelf Dwyer for a block of games and give Dalpe a chance to play in the top 9, then sadly Dalpe’s best bet is Charlotte.
If the role is on the 4th line, Sutter is better than Dalpe. No point in continuing to miscast Dalpe. If he’s only going to play on the 4th line, give the job to Sutter and let Dalpe play on a scoring line in Charlotte.
If Dalpe’s going to get a shot on a scoring line, LaRose can move down to the 4th line and Sutter back to Charlotte.
by curiouscanesfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Dwyer? Don’t know, glad its not my job :-)
Allen, Gleason and Harrison are all brave, tough and loyal mates and I’d hate to fight any of them. However, they’re more like regulators than a deterrent.
Mo won’t be touching the Sutter-Tlusty-Dwyer line … they’ve been so good.
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 19, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
mo plays with more lines than a coke addict :-)
by Caniac1026 on Oct 19, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was a good one! :)
Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."
by PackPride17 on Oct 19, 2011 7:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Tough Guy D
We could kill two birds with one stone with a Matt Greene type of player.
I believe in strength. I believe in unity. And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, word and deed then so be it.
by Douchebag St John on Oct 19, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Including Joslin and/or Harrison in any deal would leave us were we are right now.
When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.
Give him a chance
Not a lot of love for Joslin. People forget that he is still fairly young and only has 70 total career NHL games under his belt, but showed a lot of promise in the 17 games he played here after getting traded. Has a goal and 4 helpers and was a +7 in those 17 games. Also showed toughness, and I think has a little more sneaky offense in him than he’s shown.
He needs a chance to play a few games. I think he has more potential than Harrison, even with Harrison definite improved play this year.
It’s not a lack of love or not believing in him. It’s the fact that there are only 20 spots for players per team per game. As of right now I’d probably rather keep Harrison and move Joslin as part of a package to fill out the top 6, or pick up a third line center and bump Sutter up to #2. If said player was fairly young and/or had three seasons, including this season, left on his deal I think that could work.
When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.
Couldn’t we keep Joslin and trade Kaberle? Wouldn’t that work out a lot better? I know, I know; I’m just dreaming.
Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."
by PackPride17 on Oct 20, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m hoping that Kaberle figures it out 5 on 5. I like what he provides on the PP, but he’s paid too much to be just a PP specialist.
When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.
Yeah, but...
When your PP sucked to high heaven the last 2 years, then paying that amount of money for some freebies is worth a paycheck to me. He’s played better that last 2 games.
Harrumph
Joslin would also likely fetch a better return.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 20, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Doubt it would be much of a return. I think he has a lot of potential but he hasn’t gotten a real shot to show it. It would be a waste to throw him away for a 3rd-5th Round Pick. At least for now he provides solid depth for when someone goes down.
And Harrison would net a 6th or 7th.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 22, 2011 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Joslin provides something that we don’t have a lot of… crease-clearing ability, a heavy shot (and a willingness to use it), and the willingness to fight.
Joslin always seems to me to fight when the team really needs a boost or when someone is getting pushed around while Harrison more often fights when the other team challenges our team (resulting in the other team’s morale being boosted).
If we really needed to move a D, I’d look to see if we couldn’t get a sizeable return for McBain. Too many primarily offensive oriented D-men on the team and in the pipeline.
I think Gleason/Harrison/Allen all bring solid crease clearing, as does Pitkanen when he needs to. And Faulk is stronger than given credit for.
by Cory Lavalette on Oct 21, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Info Cory
And speaking ofr Skinner he too has been showing a “Grittier side” to hius play and if anything he needs remember that : “What goes around comes around” ..and he’ll learn to pick his battles wisely…but i stil;l love that body slam type move he did on McQuaid last week,,,hehehe..and before lunchtime i hadn’t checked the NHL site to see IF "shanny’ was handing out fines for the thugs starting with Chara…
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
No fines
There won’t be any fines. The on ice officials handed out all the necessary penalties and no further action is warranted.
Thanks Sittler
I wasn’t sure If Shanny was gonna stick his nose in this..and IF he did what he would do…thanks again
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
Gleason
I’m so impressed with Gleason’s decision to let Horton have his moment. Gleason’s a guy who seemed to play with the “safety off” last year. That took a lot of discipline.
Seems like a confident team at this point.
When do we start worrying about Boucher ever playing game #2 ?
Play Boston 2 more times
They play Boston another couple of times. If the circumstances are right I’m sure Timmay will provide Horton with an “invitation”. Based on their fight last year, if I were Horton I’d decline.
If not the Blues.
But I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t play one of the games this weekend.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 19, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The above picture of Nathan Horton is an example of "Mid-Game Free Agency"
To me in the above picture it looks like Nathan Horton is trying to rip Gleason’s Hurricanes jersey off so he can try to put a Bruin’s jersey on him. However, I don’t think that “mid-game free agency” is currently allowed by the CBA. If Boston keeps playing the way they have been, you may see this tactic a few more times this season by the Boys in Beantown.
“Mid-Game Free Agency” usually is initiated by teams like the Bruins and Flyers who think that the hockey universe revolves around them. They don’t always like having to dance with the ones who brung ‘em, so they try to steal someone else’s date.
i need to see this game again
does somebody have a copy ???
Mi piace l'hockey su ghiaccio.
l'hockey è buono qui .. sì?
FSN may show it at some point when they're done with women's field hockey?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 19, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Good post Cory!
Agree with the Plus on Joni. This season is why some of us have been frustrated by him. Because we know this is what he can do. Is he maturing? Is the Dave Lewis factor? Both? Whatever it is, he’s one of the impact players for the team this year. The blue line has had a number of impact players so far with the Gleason/Allen line doing so many good things for the team.
by Hockeydog on Oct 19, 2011 3:40 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It’s probably a combination of all of the above – and also – he doesn’t have the personal upheaval in his life this season that a newborn baby undoubtedly brought last year. I think we all tend to forget that some of these guys are husbands and fathers – and having a newborn in the house is no picnic. It’s a big adjustment and affects different players in different ways.
very good point
I was wondering if maybe Stewart was affected by the same. His wife gave birth right before the season started, so maybe his focus was more with his wife.
Stewart has a bit of reputation about not being prepared for the season. He had a few tweets about how winded he was early in the season. Perhaps being with Pete for a while now has him in better cardio shape than he has been so far in his career.
When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.
I would love to see Timmy destroy Horton in the next game against Boston. I love seeing Bruins fans calling Gleason a coward, because any sensible hockey fan knows he didn’t want that fight, and that he showed a tremendous amount of discipline. Hopefully Gleason shuts them up on Jan 14th.
by jbcanesfan26 on Oct 19, 2011 4:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
That non-fight last night by Gleason was one of the best things I’ve ever seen him do. I really thought that took more courage and brains that simply fighting back. I would rank that moment up there when he took a Ovie shot to the face and came back to play.
Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."
Didn’t he score the GWG in that game as well? That game ranks in the top Gleason moments for me too.
by jbcanesfan26 on Oct 19, 2011 4:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not a game winner, Caps won in OT. But it did tie the game. And it was short-handed. :)
(12/11/09)
Blind optimist and Kool-Aid drinker
by Jamie Kellner on Oct 19, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Fun fact: LaRose has only played 22 and 23 seconds on the PK in the last two games. He’s now tied with Poni for 8th in average shorthanded time. Patrick Dwyer is averaging 4x the shorthanded time.
Full list of players trusted more on the PK than LaRose: Gleason, Allen, Dwyer, Sutter, Harrison, Pitkanen, Brent, Staal, Jokinen, Tlusty.
LaRose and Cullen were our top PK unit years ago. They were quite brilliant. That said, last year Staal hardly saw PK time (if memory serves) and now this year he’s been out quite a bit. I could be to keep him in the flow of a game. Not sure, but his reach alone is reason for him to be out there.
Harrumph
Staal was 4th on the team for PK time/game last year – usually with Cole.
Sutter, Dwyer, were tops avergaing over 2 min /game. Then LaRose, Staal and Cole were about 1:30/game.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Oct 19, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, yeah, but that's hardly if you're interested in bashing the team!
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 19, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Certainly the number of penalties we've had factors in.
You don’t want your best forward sitting on the bench because his teammates are playing undisciplined hockey.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 19, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That is extremely strange. He also seems to be getting more PP time. So reduced PK, more PP, and time on the 1st & 2nd lines; LaRose is scoring winger now. :)
Some managers manage using the carrot, Mo manages by using "The Stick."
by PackPride17 on Oct 19, 2011 7:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It does look as though Mo thinks LaRose is really coming into his own as a scoring winger. You don’t want to tire out a scoring star on the PK.
At some point, Mo is going to have to face facts. LaRose is hitting 5.9% of his shots this year, which is slightly below his career average of 8.4%. LaRose has taken more shots than anyone on the team except Eric Staal. Dwyer is the only forward who has played much and is shooting worse than LaRose.
We’re back to last year’s pattern of LaRose getting lots of shots because teams focus on shutting down Staal and Skinner with LaRose on the ice. Inevitably, LaRose becomes the focus of the offense when he’s on a scoring line. Staal and Skinner get both fewer shots and worse shots. This is not good for the Canes or LaRose, who is a fine player in the right role but a detriment on a scoring line.
by curiouscanesfan on Oct 20, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Whalers
Never knew the Stanley Cup was won in October…..
Wow!!!
You really got us there. You must be some sort of professionally trained trash talker or something. You even did your research. It’s true: the Stanley Cup is not won in October and the Hurricanes used to be the Whalers. And here you managed to get both of those little fun facts into one single half sentence. Mr. Steve Tracy, you are one smart cookie. I’ll bet you’re a doctor or something. A doctor or trash talk. Keep up the good work Dr. Tracy. We are in awe.
by Sluv on Oct 19, 2011 9:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No you can’t win it in October. But I believe the other half of that cliche is that “you can lose it in October”. Thanks, and come again.
by drifterscape on Oct 20, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Chris Kelly
Interesting comments by Kelly about Staal before the game keeping a cool head and playing the game. Kelly gained a lot of points in my book in his fight with Sutter42 when he clearly pulled punches after Sutter42s jersey got pulled over his head.
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