So, Bobby Ryan is available...
by BIGBASSMAN on Nov 29, 2011 10:59 AM EST
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Would the Canes be able to package something for him? We would definitely have to match salaries since it doesn't seem like we can take on $5.1 million a season, although we have the room. So a few prospects and a pick wouldn't work. He could be the forward we always needed to play with Staal, and would give us 2 solid top lines. With the extra defensemen we're carrying, and they're need for a defenseman, maybe Kaberle could go. But with his 3 year deal we may have to give a bit more for them to take him.
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Kabs wouldn't cut it
I think everyone in the league is starting to realize that this guy is in the twilight of his career and falling off fast. He’s still got some skill, but not worth the contract he’s getting.
The only way I see this getting done would be something like Pitkanen or Gleason, Boychuck and maybe Mike Murphy (they have some goaltending issues) for Ryan. Maybe you could shuffle McBain and Allen and one of the prospects but I think they’d want a little smorgasbord for a young gun like Ryan. I’d love to see them pull the trigger on a deal like that and open a few spots for some kids, but I don’t see it happening.
by The Gottfather on Nov 29, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions
Maybe out of left field...
Ruutu and Pitkanen/Gleason for Ryan.
I’m sure other assets thrown in as well for both sides.
That's Chuck and the letter 'K'
But...
the coaching change may negate any big deals for now. See how the team responds.
That's Chuck and the letter 'K'
I agree
…with what you’ve said. We need to see if it was a coaching issue with this team. If the team does better, then we’ve fixed the problem. If they do worse or stay the same, then that is when we should start to look for, and execute trades. I’m thinking they shouldn’t even look to trade until after the new year. Give Muller some time to work with this lineup and see everyone play first.
by DomBooneCaniac on Nov 29, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Well changes can still happen. Im sure Kirk will have thoughts on players and player types.
I think the Nodl claim might be an indication of a move soon coming. I also think the Hagman claim by the Ducks has indications of a potential deal in the works.
by RobbinDollar on Nov 29, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
If Bobby Ryan is being shopped, the Canes should absolutely jump in on that. Ryan has 40 goal, 90+ point potential, would look amazing next to Staal or Skinner, and is the perfect fit for the Canes need of a physical, sniping Right Winger.
It would probably be very expensive, along the lines of:
Ruutu + Gleason + McBain + (Boychuk or 1st Round Pick)
for
Bobby Ryan + Kurtis Foster
But that would probably be worth it to make the team better right now and over the next 3 or so years while Cam/Staal are in their prime and we have to compete for a Cup.
I doubt the ducks would take any UFAs in a deal for Ryan. That would be basically giving away a player for nothing. Only young players will get him out of Cali.
If we are clearly out of the playoff picture around the deadline then we will move our UFAs to a playoff team.
by RobbinDollar on Nov 29, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
You just made a point and countered it…
The Ducks aren’t counting themselves out yet, Ruutu + Gleason could very well propel them back into the race.
If they didn’t help, they would each be worth at least a 2nd Round Pick each (maybe a 1st depending on team) plus a few prospects which is value.
by JussiJuice on Nov 29, 2011 1:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Haha, well I was saying that the Ducks are not a playoff team. They are currently the last place team in the league.
I would doubt that they would take on UFAs now to try to get picks/prospects at the deadline. Might work in video games but not how its done.
Generally to get established talent you have to give up = established talent or prospects with a greater potential.
If I were the Ducks GM I would laugh at any offer that had a UFA in it unless it was one of my UFAs.
by RobbinDollar on Nov 29, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
At what Cost?
The Ducks wouldn’t want Kaberle. Who would? Bad term and bad cap hit.
I do find it interesting that over and over I hear about potential trades from fans. Its usually pretty funny stuff. Earlier this year I heard people saying Kaberle for Spezza then it was Rick Nash for Kaberle. I am not going to get into all of the stuff I hear. I just want to point out its not a video game and making a trade is alot harder than the average fan thinks.
First thing is you have to know why they are considering trading a player like Ryan. Both Getzlaf and Perry are both UFA in 2013. They both get 5.325 mil now and will get a raise. Im assuming they will have some room with Selene and Blake UFA at the end of this year and each have a hit of 4 mil. So they could get all of them in but they might be hamstrung to the cap.
They might not be able to sign all of them at that rate so then need some younger cheaper guys.
They would love a good D-man that is very young and affordable for a few years we have a pipeline of guys that would they would certainly want. They wouldn’t have interest in Gleason/Allen/Kaberle/Harrison.
They would have interest in McBain/Murphy/Faulk/Dumolin
Depending on the D we would be willing to part with we would also have to give up a prospect/pick.
So in order to pull it off we would have to combo Faulk/Boychuk or Mcbain/Dalpe… Not sure how we would feel about loosing any combo of the 4.
I dont see us giving up our UFAs for a guy like Ryan. well maybe I should say I dont see the Ducks accepting a deal for our UFAs.
Yes I could see us making a deal but keep in mind that Skinner is going to get a new deal in the next 2 years. Its shocking to think PK will give JR the freedom to spend a bit more.
Another thing to think about is that the current CBA is up after this year. So PK/JR might want to keep the roster cost relatively low until the new CBA is established.
I personally would love to see Ryan in a Canes uniform! Staal needs a winger to help open him up and they could feed off each other. My concern is at what cost? I think we have a 4-5 year window with our guys going into their prime and I could see a move to make us better, and Ryan would certainly improve our skill level Im just concerned about …. yes yes the cost!
Great thread and thanks for posting. Im hoping the Nodl deal is the start of a few new faces!
I think y'all are overvaluing Ryan, but...
Need to move Boychuk in this deal. Robbin is right though – need to shed some salary but I really don’t want it to be Ruu, Bain or Gleason.
woah…
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/us_olympic_hockey_player_bobby.html
Players for Ryan?
If the Canes do make a move for him, it probably be McBain or Gleason+Boychuk or Dalpe and a pick. Maybe Sanguinetti maybe included.
I don’t see JR trading Faulk, Murphy, Doumolin. These guys are untouchable, especially Doumolin. He is more of a stay at home d-man. Like Gleason but better.
by skinnerthewinner on Nov 29, 2011 3:05 PM EST reply actions
why is everyone suddenly trading timmay?
LET'S GO CANES -- THE SEASON AIN'T OVER YET!!!
by Capt. Stinky on Nov 29, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Because he is a UFA, we have too many defensemen, and he actually has SOME value so we might get something decent in return for him.
Kaberle is worthless on the trade front right now.
Pitkanen is probably the Canes best overall defenseman.
Harrison is playing well and very affordable; also probably wouldn’t command a whole lot in return.
Faulk, Doumolin, Murphy are probably untouchable.
Gleason, McBain, Allen, & Joslin are all probably available depending on their return.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
So the question is; what are the Ducks really looking for in regards to Bobby Ryan? Do they think they still have a shot at the playoffs this season and want to go for it or are they trying to rebuild for next season?
If they are still eyeing the playoffs, then maybe;
Ruutu/Gleason/Boychuk/Sanguinetti/2nd Round Pick for Ryan/Hagman
Ruutu can play multiple positions and will produce around 0.50+ PPG. Gleason would slide into their top 4 as a physical force. Boychuk could probably fit into their lineup this season and as a former 1st round pick, he could play a part in their future. Sanguinetti is another player that could potentially play into their future, probably as a bottom pairing defenseman or PP specialist. The 2nd round pick would give them some leverage to potentially move back up in the 1st round by combining picks, if their season didn’t turn around. Ryan would immediately be a top 3 forward for the Canes. Hagman would basically be a salary dump to help Anaheim out.
Or if Anaheim was going for a next season rebuild;
McBain/Dalpe/1st Round Pick for Ryan
McBain could come in an play immediately and probably replace Beauchemin next season at a fraction of the cost. Dalpe could probably make their team this season, learn the NHL game, and be a good contributor for them next season. We have his future pegged as a 20+ goal scorer in the NHL; with his wrister and Getzlaf feeding the puck, maybe he becomes more. Our 1st is a big price to give up, but if we are keeping our veterans and adding Ryan; we should be able to make a run at the playoffs (hopefully getting in) and our pick should be outside the top 10. Ryan again would immediately fit in our top 3, but PK would have to give the ok to add that salary. If we continue to flounder, then we miss out on a good young player in the draft (but we still have Ryan), and we can trade off some of our other players for picks/prospects.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
I would do either deals if I were the Canes. I dont think I would take the first deal if I were the ducks. The second deal I would take if I were the Ducks.
Ruutu and Gleason are UFAs and Boychuk is a RFA. Hagman was clained on re-entry waivers so they are only on the hook for half of that cap hit so I doubt they are pressing to move his deal. The Ducks have alot of UFAs at the end of the year and that means if they continue to struggle then they will be be in prime rebuild mode shortly. They can get alot of picks and prospects quickly. I doubt they are even considering any soon to be UFA or RFAs. The soon to be RFAs are more likly than UFAs
I like your thought process on this one!
Defiantly a tough move to give up next years No1 pick when it is sure to be top 10. Would it still be top 10 with a guy like Ryan next to Staal the rest of the year?
Hagman was claimed on re-entry, but the Ducks will still have to pay him around $1.5 million. The reason I included him was so get the total money a LITTLE closer. From what I have read, Anaheim shopping Ryan has a good amount to do with money. So the prospect trade might be more feasible for them.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
Its not about this years money for sure and its not all about next years money either. Its about getting Perry and Getzlaf singed as they will be both UFAs and due a raise in 13-14
they get alot of space next year as they have 8-9 UFAs and 2-3 RFAs
They are set up for a complete rebuild and with the current structure they could do it in a short time.
by RobbinDollar on Nov 30, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Given what I’ve read, the Ducks appear to be looking for a young, top four or potentially top four defenseman, a young forward, preferably someone who could be their #2 center, and a high draft pick, probably a #1. For the Canes, that looks like McBain, Sutter, and our 2012 number one draft pick. While I like Bobby Ryan and he would look great next to Eric Staal and maybe put Tlusty for speed on the left wing, are we ready to give up that value for him?
Exactly, we don’t have the talent to get him. I’d love him but we’ve got nothing.
If they want a prospect instead of a draft pick, they might take Ruutu/Jokinen + McBain/Gleason/Allen + Boychuk. I would support any combination of that, but I don’t think the Ducks will. Especially when there are teams like the Rangers supposedly in play for him who have significantly more talent.
Apparently Carolina has asked about Ryan, but the budget seems to be an issue as well as what to give up in return
by hurricanehockey2002 on Nov 30, 2011 9:37 PM EST reply actions
Sounds like speculation from the writer there. I don’t really see budget as being an issue as presumably money would be going the other way as well. But yeah, the problem is return.
by hurricane9 on Nov 30, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ryan
The Canes have plenty of trade ammo to package for Ryan ,Mcbain/Boychuk/Kabs/ + a 2nd rnd pick ,or any combination there of would be more than reasonable. Giving up Ruutu would just create the same problem with lack of top 6 tallent + he’s a ufa…Kabs could go IF there biting or JR could bury his 4.25m in the minors and the difference in Ryan & Kabs contract in only $850k ,so that works Ryan makes $5.1m…PULL the trigger JR!
I still believe JR should make a pitch to Anaheim for Ryan that will make the trade hard to refuse. It’s wishful thinking I know, but you sometimes have to take a risk.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
Well, based on their desires (before Boudreau) we’d probably have to send:
Gleason, Dalpe, plus our 1st round pick.
I would guess that’s too rich for JR. But it’s hard to refuse based on the return potential—Gleason is a top 4 defender (well, during the Olympic year) Dalpe is a sharp, fast young prospect with decent shooting skills. Our first round pick is lkely top 10 even after getting Ryan and would result in the Ducks having two ideally placed first round picks to have some great up front potential next year…
…helps them now and next year. Is that worth it to us??
To be honest, I really would probably giving up Gleason, Boychuk, Nash, and our 1st for Ryan. Gleason would immediately help out there defense. Boychuk could probably play in there bottom 6 instantly and maybe be a top 6 LW for them in the near future. Nash could be there 3rd line center, maybe as soon as next season. With Staal, Sutter, Jussi, Brent, & Rask down the middle for the Canes; we should be alright in the center department. And while I would hate giving it up, the 1st could turn into anything.
I really like Ryan and it would give up 3 legitmate players that could be considered top 3. We need that!
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
I honestly believe that JR is shopping hard to make a big move such as this. I also believe that it is likely he could fail to find something to his liking and we could be stuck with our 1-goal-a-game team.
Only time will tell. I do think it is an imminent siutation though, the further this drags out the less likely something happens.
by JussiJuice on Dec 1, 2011 2:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It’s not the fact of the Ducks not wanting players, its the fact that they have to get rid of Ryan’s contract. That’s the only reason why he’s in a trade rumor right now. Ducks can’t afford perry’s, getzlaf’s, and Ryan’s contract, its just too much money. Packing Kaberle in a deal with a prospect and a 1st rounder and Ryan is on the next flight to RDU.
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