Carolina's Powerplay Woes Continue: Panthers 3, Hurricanes 1
The Florida Panthers ruined new Carolina Hurricanes head coach Kirk Muller's debut on Tuesday night as the visitors defeated the home team, 3-1 in front of 13,065 at the RBC. It was the fourth loss in a row for Carolina and their 11th loss in their last 14 games.
The Canes had plenty of chances with the man advantage -- and lead the NHL in that category -- but went 0-5 while on the powerplay for the game. The Panthers scored the first goal of the contest while on their first powerplay and officially ended up going 1-2 on the night.
Carolina carried the play for much of two periods, dominated total shot attempts, and held their opposition to one of the lowest shot on goal totals of the season, (21), but it still was not enough to claim victory.
After a slow first period for Florida, in which the Hurricanes held the team to just two shots on goal, Tomas Fleischmann started off the scoring midway through the second with a perfect shot which banged in off the post. It was his 11th goal of the season.
But Jeff Skinner tied things up just 1:04 later when he took an Eric Staal pass in on Jose Theodore.
The score remained tied until 16:41 into the third when Shawn Matthias got loose behind Tomas Kaberle and banged in a puck past Cam Ward. It was a fluke goal of sorts as the shooter banked in the shot off the goalie.
The Canes would pull Ward to get an extra skater, but Matthias scored again into the empty net to put it away.
After the game, coach Muller said the team did what he asked of them, they skated hard. He also mentioned that he felt the third period might not have been as good as the first two, and that much work needed to be done on the powerplay.
The Canes will practice tomorrow and then take on the Rangers at the RBC on Thursday night.
Game Notes:
- The team is now 0-5-1 when tied after two periods.
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Jeff Skinner's goal was his 10th of the season. He also had a team high five shots on goal.
- The on ice distribution was about the same as under Maurice. Staal had 22:19, Pitkanen had a team high 24:10, and the fourth line had about seven minutes each with Anthony Stewart low man at 6:21.
- Their faceoff percentage was 49% (Staal 42%, Sutter 62%, Jokinen 50%, Brent 50%)
- The Canes were credited with 25 hits, led by Tuomo Ruutu with five.
- Carolina dominated puck possession and total shot attempts. In all, the team sent out 65 shots, (27 on net, 18 blocked, 20 missed). Florida had a total of 35, (20 on net, eight blocked, and six missed.)
- Cam Ward stopped a Jack Skille penalty shot in the third period.
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Overall, I liked the way we attacked and we seemed to maintain the puck in the Florida zone more than we have been doing. I’m confident given Muller’s track record in Montreal that he will improve the powerplay but it’s going to a little bit. Sutter was all over the ice tonight and the Nodl guy can skate. Cam probably wanted that 2nd goal back but Kaberle can’t let somone sneak in behind him like that. It’s going to take a handful of games before we see much difference but for the most part, I was pleased with what I saw.
As a side note, I really like Florida’s defense. They look very good.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
looked to me like Kaberle took away the pass and left Ward with the shooter. I think that goal was on Cam for not hugging the post.
I had the same thought, but I couldn't tell for sure
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
You could be right since I haven’t watched the replay.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
by anonymousJ on Nov 30, 2011 8:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Tripp had the same thought about Kaberle and watching the replay I thought he was just piling on a player who is already down. Not that I would defend him often.
It’s on both. Ward fell asleep and didnt hug his post. Kaberle fell asleep and let a man walk in alone.
by hurricane9 on Nov 30, 2011 12:25 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Since I complained last week about puck possession, i thought I should praise the team for time with the puck especially in the offensive zone. I liked the puck support and the passing down low with purpose! Jose’ Theodore came up big when things were setup well for the Canes. Defensive spacing was better last night as well.
On a bright note for me personally. I’ll be in the RBC center tomorrow for only the second time since 2002!
Offensive zone possession was great. Great grinding and cycling. Occasional man in front of net, still could be improved in that area.
It’s the defensive zone puck possession that continues to concern me. I know not every team can be Detroit, Chicago, heck even the lowly Rangers lately, but when you have time and space in your own zone and just fling the puck out of the zone instead of skating and finding the open man…..that’s called a turnover in my book. That happens way to frequently, imo.
Liked Staal’s game. Caught him 2 times about ready to coast up the ice back to d-zone but then he accelerated to get back in the the play. Nice. Good for him.
Still can’t figure out why Stewart is on 4th line.
Harrumph
I for one wasn’t expecting a miracle but I was hoping for a win – lord knows we could use ’em.
The lack of production on the power play is really getting old. With the number of penalties this team draws (thank you Mr. Skinner) it’s just terrible seeing all those chances go to waste without getting anything for the effort. I’m not even sure what the Canes were doing wrong on the PP – I didn’t get a chance to watch the entire game. What little I did see of the PP unit I thought they were moving the puck around well but I only saw two shifts of it. I happen to like Jay Harrison on the PP; he’s stepped his game up alot and I think deserves all the ice time he can handle.
Kaberle continues to be a noose around this team’s neck.
Megaweapon… Megaweapon… Megaweapon…
Sutter was a beast on the ice tonight
I thought we had a good fore check going and I liked the puck possession. Disappointing loss but I am optimistic with Muller at the helm.
I've been at the last two home games
and how different can a pair of 3-1 losses be? Friday night felt like a first place team playing a last place team. Tonight didn’t. Tonight actually felt like Carolina had the better of the play in 5 on 5. It’s encouraging. Kirk obviously hasn’t had time to put in his system, but there was energy, and there was discipline (in general). The stick-handling was better, the passes were sharper. That’s new. And good.
Now special teams. . . wow. I think I see the problem with the power play. I don’t know if people have said this before, but they play the power play just like 5 on 5. Lots of dump ins, passes in traffic, things like that. In general, too many low percentage passes that may pay off if you hit them, but that you don’t hit too much. In 5 on 5, those are fine. Make a high risk pass and you can get yourself a goal if it works out. If it doesn’t, you lose possession, big deal. But why do those in a power play? You don’t need a risky pass to get a good shot. You just need to make safe passes and wait for a window when the shorthanded team is slow on the rotation. And losing possession means you lose a quarter of your power play. I can’t imagine Muller doesn’t change this, but right now it just doesn’t even look like a power play. It looks like even strength hockey.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 29, 2011 11:03 PM EST reply actions
Too many attempts at pretty passes, poor cycling, poor entry, poor shot accuracy, and no one in front on the 1st unit are the problems I see.
well too many attempts at pretty passes and poor entry were my point
so we’re seeing the same things there. Poor shot accuracy has been a problem in 5 on 5 as well.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 29, 2011 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Last year, Pits bringing the puck up the ice, feeding either Jokinen in the middle or Staal on the left wing. The other team stood there mesmerized by Jokinen skating straight down the blue line east-west. We have a nice clean entry. Then set it up. Use our speed and stick handling to play tic-tac-toe. Usually ended with a nice pass from Pits to Jokinen back door. Didn’t always work, but we would control the puck in the o-zone the whole 2 minutes.
Something totally different from 5 on 5. Mu needs to tweak it, make it work.
by coastalcaniac on Nov 30, 2011 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
definitely
hell, just make it look like a power play. even that will improve it.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
As frustrating as it was to watch, can’t help but get excited about listening to Captain Kirk speak.
“It is what it is”
Is that a Mo Quote?
by RobbinDollar on Nov 30, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Talent Question
Do we have the talent to be a playoff team? The team I saw dominate Chicago earlier in the year, was one of the best performances i’ve seen from the Canes in a while. Where is that team and the skill displayed that night? I thought we would be in the top 4 in the east after that game. Can we muster up that level of play?
to make the playoffs?
it would take above average discipline and energy on a regular basis, as the talent is below average.
If what we’re hearing about a linemate for Eric Staal comes to fruition, that may change.
Need to be better, at the end of the day, than the Buffaoes and New Jerseys of the world. Or maybe the Montreals. We’ll see how things shake out. But right now, those are probably the comparisons.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 29, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
To make the playoffs we need to win games like tonight’s. Not come close. Win them. Period. If we can’t do that every single time then we have no chance. We aren’t going to win every game we play for the rest of the year, in fact, I think we can lose 16 more. But we will not make the playoffs if our players take a shift off and allow the Matthias of the world to slip in our back door. We had them beat. Dominated in the 2nd. Edged them in the third. We have to close the deal.
by coastalcaniac on Nov 30, 2011 2:25 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, these are exactly the kinds of games that we have to win
and when we’re talking this year’s playoffs, the clock is ticking on when we start winning them. But it was also unrealistic to expect a 180 in 24 hours. We did have a good portion of one, but that nagging special teams worry and that little bit of sloppy play in the third. . . that has to go away. Soon.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
How can you make it all the way to the AHL and not know how to shoot? Some of these players need to learn how to hit the net. Put some target practice in the practice after the PP work.
The worst case was Allen missing a wide open net (almost a replica of Kaberle’s goof, but with less of an empty net).
Time for some Trades, JR.
Please get Ray Whitney back. He had 1 goal and 2 assists in tonight’s game for Phoenix. :D
Ready for the Canes to win the Cup again! :)
THE LINES PEOPLE, WHAT ABOUT THE LINES?
I saw Skinner, Staal, Ruutu. That works. 2nd I saw Rosie, Sutter, Poni. I saw the PP was Skinner, Staal, Jokinen. Not sure about 3rd and 4th. Or the rest of the PP or PK. But I really liked the Skinner, Staal, Ruu line and the Skinner, Staal, Jokinen PP. Give everyone of them 25 minutes of ice time. What’s that leave us for the others to cover until we can get those lines back out?
So if LaRose gets first line minutes with what he brings, what does Sutter get after a game like last night?
I was hoping for a little more experimentingwith lines. Sutter, Skinner and Ruutu played exactly how a player shoul respond in a situation like they are in. Just extraordinary effort.
First two periods seemed like pretty good hockey with minimal results. 3rd period was the same crap we’ve seen all year. The team was tired, the team effort fell apart.
A special call out to Gleason. Get it together, man. He looked slow, out of place and ineffective. Maybe he’s hurt, but talk about stinkola, sheesh. Between him and Kraperle it’s a wonder the score was only 3-1. The D needs help, though Faulk looked good.
Well Mr. Staal made a good pass to the team leader. He appeared to have good vision all night and passed the puck around well, just can’t find twine. I still think this team with these pieces needs a minimum of 3 goals a night to even compete. That means a few more cylnders need to be hitting. I think there is plenty of talent on this team to put together a deadly PP unit. Them are low hanging fruit minutes that need to be taken advantage of.
In Capt. Kirk we trust…..I hope.
A
Getting old sucks!
Yes, I blame Gleason for the first goal, he should have put at least some pressure on the shooter instead of just standing in the blocking position (and blocking Cam’s view).
by CanesFanFromLI on Nov 30, 2011 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
You have to give it to Fleishmann, he rocketed 2 hard shots back-to-back. And he did what we couldn’t; put his shots on net!
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
Sure, but let’s see him do that with a defenseman in front of him. That goal was all on Gleason. If you are going to stand in no-man’s land, at least block the shot.
by hurricane9 on Nov 30, 2011 12:29 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Okay, I'll be the stick in the mud here...
…was expecting more from last night coaching-wise. The only major change I saw was healthy scratching McBain instead of Kaberle, we saw how that played out. I know the dude didn’t have much time, but who the heck (Brindy, Barasso, Lewis, even JR?) gave Muller the advice to keep Rosie in the top 6 and the fourth line ice time down? it’s only been one day, so I’m prone to give him some slack, but I’m hoping JR’s guy with “new ideas” actually implements some, like getting Sutter’s butt on the first line and keeping it there. Put Rosie on the fourth line, let him play on the PP as he’s the only one gutsy enough to park in front of the net and also play the PK, he could be like a specialist guy, just get him off the top 2 lines, I’m tired of seeing him pass to empty places on the ice, whiff on passes, and constantly get knocked off the puck.
FYI, in a post yesterday I questioned some folks’ wanting to trade Gleason. Based on what I saw last night, I no longer question that. He looked slow and out of sorts.
Really, really like Sutter’s game last night, and thought Staal let his talent shine through, even if he could not convert. Skinner is Skinner…
…where is the Juice, anyone seen him?
Happy we have new direction behind the bench, eager to see him actually do something new.
GO CANES!!!
LET'S GO CANES -- THE SEASON AIN'T OVER YET!!!
I would bet that Kirk wanted to see how the performed using the status quo set up. No better way to diagnose issues and begin to gain a working opinion than to see players in the slots they are normally in.
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
good point. a bit too eager on my part i guess...
LET'S GO CANES -- THE SEASON AIN'T OVER YET!!!
by Capt. Stinky on Nov 30, 2011 7:21 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t expect any changes to lines, at least not yet. But I did expect to see a more even distribution of ice time – like less time for Staal and more for the 4th liners. Its kind of hard to see what you’ve got to work with there if they only get six minutes.
I thought that the they were taking shorter shifts than ordinary (something I feel has needed to be done), but they got away from it in the 3rd. Maybe it was all the PP time?
I did see a more honest effort from Staal for the most part – if he keeps it up his contribution wil come along and his teammates will notice.
I think Muller probably earns credibility with the players by giving the incumbents a chance to prove themselves before making changes.
On Kaberle, the Canes have to get some value out of him to avert a multi-year disaster. Muller said he has seen Kaberle a lot while in Montreal and knows he’s an elite PP QB. Kaberle was probably in there to boost his confidence, try to salvage value from Kaberle’s contract and try to fix the awful power play. I also think Kaberle’s career probably justifies giving him a shot over either McBain or Joslin. McBain probably sat because Joslin offers more size, strength and physicality. McBain is more like a second Kaberle.
by curiouscanesfan on Nov 30, 2011 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
Its probably going to take Muller a few games. Just to see what he really has on this roster. I’m not expecting many drastic changes til around Christmas. By then then, I think we’ll see what Muller’s team. Is about. I don’t see how this team is going to get back in the playoffs but its not impossible. I just want to see effort and hustle every night and the powerplay to improve this season.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
by anonymousJ on Nov 30, 2011 8:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Where is the Juice, anyone seen him?
Yeah he has Chad and Poni on his line.
by RobbinDollar on Nov 30, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Jussi & his wife Salla are expecting a baby and probably had it by now..that is why the Jucie was missing at practice
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
Great snapshot of the season last night...
Pretty good effort last night against a hot team. When the ‘Canes skate, they can play pretty good defense. The problem remains in the offensive zone. Listening to Tripp last night made me laugh. He’s been saying that the Power Play is “a work in progress” for the last two seasons! But he did bring up another reoccurring problem…no net presence.
And serioulsy…. how about some target practice.
Fail for Nail; Some Thoughts About the Florida Game
I like Muller and think he will do quite well for the Hurricanes. I thought he showed street smarts and people handling skills by not revamping the forward lines until he had seen from ice level how the team performed with the lines as they were. On the other hand, I am ready and have been ready to get the forward lines reworked.
I admire Muller for not reaching across and decking Kaberle for ruining what otherwise looked like at least a tie. Reports are that the RBC was pretty much filled with scouts looking at players. Kaberle looked like an ECHL player in his first game. Gleason is reverting to his lack of form last season. I again suspect he has a bad back; and that it isn’t a case of him just being hesitant.
I was not shocked or even disappointed the power play floundered. It’s built to be ineffective at the moment. I like this team and think it has the makings of a very good team. I think Muller will be able to put his stamp on the team. On the positive side of things, Poni is continuing to improve. Stewart again looked good. Brent and Nodl both looked good. The usual leaders led by example: Skinner, Sutter, Ruutu, and Jokinen. Allen and Joslin showed an edgy game. I think Allen is the best shutdown defenseman on the team; and I hope Muller campaigns for the Hurricanes to keep him. Pitkanen was a beast with his skating. Faulk has incredible poise and maturity.
I was underwhelmed by the usuals. Staal is still trying to be the alpha dog and again reminded me of the saying, he couldn’t hit the ocean with a rock thrown from a boat in the middle of the sea. Muller is going to be challenged by Staal’s innate psychological makeup. Staal is a pouter and it’s going to be very, very difficult to turn him into a Skinner or a Ruutu or a Sutter.
I was encouraged by the Aftermath and the discussion by Mike M. that the organization knew it needed to upgrade its talent. I was probably more encouraged about the fact the Hurricanes are now 27th in the NHL with 20 points. They are ahead of the Islanders by only 2 points and the Islanders have 4 games in hand on the Hurricanes. I think in the Fail for Nail campaign the Hurricanes are in a race to the cellar with Anaheim and Columbus. As long as the Hurricanes finished no higher than 28th, they will have three superstars to choose from. Ideally the Hurricanes would finish no higher than 29th because as between Yakupov and Grigorenko it’s a toss up. Both are superb. I’d much, much rather see the Hurricanes finish 30th or 29th and have the luxury of a top 2 pick in this draft. I’m not being a pessimist. I think Edmonton, Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia are prospering long term from their ability to pick stars in the draft.
If the Hurricanes go for the Big Bang trade, I’d like to see either Bobby Ryan or Ryan Getzlaf obtained. In some ways I’d prefer Getzlaf because is could take over as the first line center and let Staal be a right wing. On the other hand, Ryan is fantastic. I seriously doubt Jim Rutherford will go that route; but it’s fun to think about. I do hope the Hurricanes look at the roster and use the talent scale objectively to jettison at least Kaberle and two forwards. The roster needs to be supplemented with more talented, young players. Nodl in my view does add to the talent pool.
A number of fans are not enthusiastic about Boychuk; and if that opinion is shared by Rutherford and the organization, now would be a good time to trade him. I wouldn’t do it if I were Rutherford. Statistically, the fact that a large number of fans see Boychuk as underachieving would be fairly strong evidence there is something lacking in his game. Those many eyes all seeing the same thing tends to mean it’s likely to be true. I also realize I am probably in the minority. I would gladly come cheer the Hurricanes team enthusiastically and watch them lose every single one of the remaining games this season because it would likely guarantee the lottery pick. Watching Yakupov or Grigorenko in a Canes uniform playing with the core team and the young forwards like Dalpe, Rask, (and I think Boychuk) would be a pleasure for many years. So for me last night was a victory; and although I think Kaberle is one of the two worst defensemen I’ve ever seen play for the Hurricanes, I thank him too.
i would like to see a multi-player trade that brings in a guy like Ryan or Getzlaf and clears roster spots for guys like dalpe and boychuk
LET'S GO CANES -- THE SEASON AIN'T OVER YET!!!
by Capt. Stinky on Nov 30, 2011 7:24 AM EST up reply actions
and i would just waive kabs at this point, it’s sad to watch
LET'S GO CANES -- THE SEASON AIN'T OVER YET!!!
by Capt. Stinky on Nov 30, 2011 7:25 AM EST up reply actions
The Kaberle conundrum
Doesn’t waiving Kaberle send him to Charlotte. Doesn’t that take away TOI from a prospect?
Eventually you will have send him through re-entry waivers. If/when he is picked up there that team gets him for half his current salary and the Canes get the other half. The cap hit for the Canes on the other half isn’t an issue but the hit on the actual team budget is for the next 2 years. If Kaberle isn’t washed up but just miscast in a defensive scheme Muller can adapt the defense. If Muller can change the PP to use the passing skills of Kaberle effectively he could be tradeable. Otherwise isn’t best traded for a throw-in on another deal that dumps his salary. Kind of a Tverdosky type move done in the past.
I don’t think he automatically goes to Charlotte (or Florida) when placed on waivers. I thought waivers just makes the player available to other teams for no consideration for 24 hours and is also a requirement before moving certain players to the minors.
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
Maybe he can find a spot in Europe. That would be the next best thing.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Nov 30, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
For my point of view, I thought Staal had a good (but not great) game. He really made some very good passes that resulted in a goal & some scoring chances. I also thought that he threw his body around a little more than usual and played with more energy than the past few games. Remember that he and Faulk helped save a goal when Cam was out of the crease in the 3rd.
I was most impressed with the way Joslin played. I thought he did a lot of things real well; showing toughness and some offensive abilities. Overall the team did well, just not good enough. It will take a little time for Kirk to implement his system. I did notice that our PP did not throw it up the left to Staal or Jussi last night, instead they worked the right side (when they were not dumping it). I really don’t know what can be done with Kaberle. He isn’t playing well enough to be on the ice at the moment, but we can’t trade him either.
I think we’ll probably still lose the next 2 games, but if we work hard as we did last night; it will be an improvement. This team is still not a playoff team, but I think next week will be the real test for showing what Kirk has in store for the current squad.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
Yeah, I liked Staal’s game last night as well. He was set up one for a perfect shot but Skinner didn’t see him or just decided to take on the Florida defense by himself.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
by anonymousJ on Nov 30, 2011 8:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Doesn’t take a hockey genius to see that Kaberle shouldn’t be on the ice. How could someone be so poor?
I do not remember seeing Rutherford accept any responsibility for the mess on the ice but maybe I missed it.
Healthy Scratching McBain Rather Than Kaberle
If the Hurricanes organization wanted to win last night, the decision to healthy scratch McBain rather than Kaberle was a bad idea. I tend to think the Hurricanes hoped, foolishly I believe, that Kaberle might show some spark under a new coach and that it might possibly allow them to trade Kaberle. That plan back-fired. Kaberle was the worst player on the ice again; and I would truly be shocked if any team wanted to trade their used skates and broken sticks for him.
I do wonder how many of the Canes’ losses this season could be traced back to Kaberle failures and miscues?
Bad Players Help Canes Reap the Rewards of Young Stars
There is another way to look at Kaberle. Bad players bring the gift of new stars. I thank Aaron Ward every time I see Skinner doing his magic on the ice. The 14 game losing streak by the Canes was not solely caused by Aaron Ward; but he helped a lot. Similarly, the Hurricanes being 27th in the league is not solely caused by Kaberle; but he is doing a great job aiming the Hurricanes toward a lottery pick. With the difficulty of obtaining true stars who win games and bring energy and enthusiasm to the RBC and its fanbase, those rewards come from really, really bad seasons. Bad seasons for the Hurricanes come when the Hurricanes bring in important players who flop miserably. So while it is disheartening to watch Kaberle throw out clunker games, it’s by far the fastest path toward obtaining another Skinner. It may also be the fastest path to having the Hurricanes owners decide they have to increase the salary budget in order to be competitive. Much good can come out of bad players.
Last night Gleason looked far worse than Kaberle did.
by RobbinDollar on Nov 30, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
not even close
Kaberle was overwhelmed.
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Nov 30, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I agree.. not even close. Kaberle didnt look overwhelmed just really slow.. Gleason couldn’t stand up and looked slower than Kabs!
Gleason was misreading plays all night.
I think the team Defense last night was ok for most of the night with a few breakdowns that were costly. Not on any one guy.
I knew as soon as Mo was let go that everybody would really jump on the Kabs sucks bandwagon harder than ever and I am correct!
I dont think he is worth the 4+ mil but he isnt our worse D-man either.
by RobbinDollar on Nov 30, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
OMG, it's Bizzaro-Doug
Rooting for the Canes to lose? Cats and dogs living together? Did the sun rise in the west this morning?
no, but JR did fire Mo, so it's pretty much the same thing
LET'S GO CANES -- THE SEASON AIN'T OVER YET!!!
by Capt. Stinky on Nov 30, 2011 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
The Impact of Decision Tree Analysis
I am one of the most competitive people you’ll meet. I do, however, maintain a mental decision tree analysis for strategy and tactics. It’s a chess game played over multiple seasons. To win, the Hurricanes have to lose sufficiently to grab a superstar.
Skinner is a superstar. Staal is just below superstar; and frankly it is the fact he is not really a superstar that makes it very difficult for him. He’s trying to carry the team; and he’s not able to do it. It’s driving Staal crazy and making him incredibly frustrated. Add another forward superstar to the Canes mix, jettison a couple of the less skilled forwards, and the Hurricanes will roll for years to come. I view it as getting in shape. No pain, no gain. Just grin and bear it. The short term angst and agony will be well worth it in the long run.
With the amount of good, young prospects that, as you point out, are ready for and need NHL playing time along with Ryan Murphy, do we really need that 1st round pick if we can get Ryan Murphy? I mean it is always great to have that 1st rounder, especially if a top pick, but if there is ever a year the Canes could make due, assuming they add a young star like Bobby Ryan via trade, wouldn’t this be the year to do it? I think I’d be okay losing that 1st rounder if, and only if, it helps get us a player like Bobby Ryan in return.
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
“With the amount of good, young prospects that, as you point out, are ready for and need NHL playing time along with Ryan Murphy, do we really need that 1st round pick if we can get Ryan Murphy?” – I meant Bobby Ryan at the end there. Duh.
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
Good morning Everyone
I wonder IF the canes had won the last 4 even and dispite Kabs crappy play…how different the tenor of the these comments would be and we’d still have Mo…As fans we ALWAYS want and desire to see our team #1 in all things even when 15 of them are all butr dead got a broken arm or leg each and can’t even hold the stick properly after being taped into place…with all that said many of us do see and understand that more changes are needed and should be done sooner than later…My question for all is …What or how are we gonna respond if the changes we know needs to be done don’t materialize until say the trade deadline and by then 2011/2012 is in the sewer and long gone ? Should we fans be “content” ? For myself,we have made a change and yes a another or 2 is needed and the time is NOW if the Canes aree to at least a 500-600% season..to myself that would be a “moral victory” or am i expecting too much even there ? In Closing the Canes skated fater Nodl took my breath away with that one play..and Faulk is definately a keeper for the rest of this season…he & Staal saved the team from futher embarassing it’s self…while i amn happy wioth the new zip and sped the canes have but those missed shots on the net need to be reduced maybe the canes need to put targetsa on the corners like they do in the All Star games..have a good day folks and remember that win or lose..we are all & Still are Caniacs !!
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
Lotta chatter on NHL On the Fly about Derek Joslins hit on Versteeg. Craig Button: High hit, elbow to the head. Expecting a Shanaban.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Nov 30, 2011 8:51 AM EST reply actions
One game max. And Kaberle should be asked to pay Joslin’s fine just so he can say he contributes.
by drifterscape on Nov 30, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
There will be a hearing – RT @DarrenDreger: There will be a discipline hearing for Hurricanes d-man Derek Joslin for his hit on Versteeg last night.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Nov 30, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
ridiculous - the offensive player tripped as Joslin was throwing the check.
it’s freaking hockey
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Nov 30, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
So Joslin will get disciplined
but Chara can intentionally try to decapitate Pacioretty, and he gets nada.
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Nov 30, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
New sheriff and that hit was prob a catalyst for said new sheriff
I believe in strength. I believe in unity. And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, word and deed then so be it.
by Douchebag St John on Nov 30, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
That’s it right there. Yeah the elbow contacted the head but that’s because Versteeg was falling. That’s a case of a player putting himself in a dangerous position.
by hurricane9 on Nov 30, 2011 12:36 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
watch that hit and then watch
a replay of Scott Stevens ending Shane Willis’s career, and tell me which is worse.
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Nov 30, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Scott Stevens was a head hunter through out his career, I wonder how many concussions he handed out.
I hate how everyone praised him as a tough competitor just because he managed to figure out how to deliver those blows to the head legally. (They wouldn’t be legal under current rules)
by CanesFanFromLI on Nov 30, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Up is Down
It’s impossible to argue with the idea the NHL draft system rewards the very worst teams with the best new talent. The drafting process is a lottery given the age of the kids when drafted, but the odds are stacked for the teams drafting early. The idea that Kaberle is helping the team win the early draft pick by being so bad is uncomfortable but completely logical. Once you can accept that logic other explanations of the “square peg round hole” problems on this team make sense.
1. Did Dalpe or Boychuk fail to demonstrate top 6 talent or did they get an inadequate tryout? A. With the new logic they were used as low minute 4th line crashers to insure they would not make our top 2 lines better. It also delivers the benefit of a lower cost to resign them.
2. Is LaRose really a top 6 forward? A. Marginally at best. But it kept others, Stewart, the kids from possibly improving a top line.
3. Why did our PP often look like a PK? A. The system was flawed, the resulting lack of scoring insured that the teams ability to draw the most in the league penalties did not change the outcome of the game.
4. Why was less than 100% effort allowed from key players? A. It served the goal of finishing low in the standings.
5. Boucher was hired to keep Cam rested, why has he had only 4 starts?
A. To insure Cam wasn’t rested and keep Boucher from becoming hot and able to carry the team at times as he did in Philly.
I know, I know this will make you think I believe there black helicopters and 2 shooters on the grassy knoll. But if you start to think that perhaps Kaberle serves this team best by playing his worst there is simple logic to all that otherwise fails to be logical.
Pierre Lebrun reported that an ESPN Insider has specifically mentioned that Carolina has been inquiring about Bobby Ryan.
I would lose my **** if the Canes magically somehow accquired Ryan… pretty much no matter the cost outside of Ward, Staal, Sutter, and Skinner. Ryan next to Staal or Skinner (or both) would be outrageous.
by JussiJuice on Nov 30, 2011 9:20 AM EST via mobile reply actions
By the way, Bob Mac tweeted that anaheim was reportedly looking for a 2nd line Center, a top-4 D, and a 1st or elite-prospect for Ryan.
Jussi + McBain + 1st Round Pick for Ryan
Hard to lose Jussi, but he is probably more desirable than Ruutu as he is signed affordably and maybe it means we can keep Ruutu.
Then trade Allen straight up for Vermette as rumored.
Ruutu – Staal – Ryan
Skinner – Vermette – Tlusty/Dalpe/Boychuk
That is a big shakeup that might grab the teams attention!
by JussiJuice on Nov 30, 2011 9:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
For Bobby Ryan? A budding Superstar, physical, sniping power forward with hands of gold that has scored 30+ goals the past 3 years and has 40+ goal, 90+ point potential?
Players like that don’t grow on trees. Id take a bird in the hand over 2 in the bush, especially with how terrible NYI, Columbus, and Anaheim look.
Maybe Yakupov or Grigorenko would be at Ryans level, but that is a big gamble to put your hope in a top-2 Draft pick.
by JussiJuice on Nov 30, 2011 9:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would rather give up a first rounder, grab ryan, then trade a bunch of the other talent we have here and in charlotte to grab a replacement first rounder. just because we give up a draft pick doesn’t mean we can’t trade for another.
LET'S GO CANES -- THE SEASON AIN'T OVER YET!!!
by Capt. Stinky on Nov 30, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
As painful as it would be to lose Jussi, I think this would be the right move. And I too would lose my **** if we got Bobby Ryan to play alongside Staal. Change doesn’t come easy or without pain.
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
What if we trade Gleason for Vermette, then package him with Dalpe, McBain, & maybe a 2nd round pick for Ryan.
That would give Anaheim a 40+ point 2nd line center in Vermette, a potential 40-50 point prospect in Dalpe, a 30 point defenseman in McBain, and a 2nd round pick in supposedly a deep draft for a probably PPG top 3 winger.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
by PackPride17 on Nov 30, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Allen’s getting up in age but I do not want to lose him.
His arrival instantly provided the toughness this team lacked. No disrespect to Gleason or Harrison’s fighting abilities but somehow Allen’s mere presence has made other team’s play us cleaner. And standing in front of Cam is now a dangerous job for the opposition.
by drifterscape on Nov 30, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
What about future "hometeam discounts"
Jussi re-signing here was considered unlikely at one time, but his desire to stay here made a deal possible. If JR trades Jussi does it send a message to any other player who wants stay and play here? Will the home team discount become percieved as a way just to make you easier trade bait in the future?
No trade next year you have Jussi, McBain and your high 1st rounder, with the trade you have Ryan. If we were building a team to win the division this year the trade is ok. If you are building a long term winning team the trade isn’t nearly as ok.
JussiJuice, if it happens will you have to get a new log on name?
Also, if you don’t do the trade you have Jussi, McBain a very high #1 pick and a much lower cap hit which pretty much tilts this fan to the No Deal side of the suggested trade.
Assuming that’s the deal, which based on rumors, it’s not. I don’t see us giving a pick. Jussi is a good player, but Ryan is so many times better. And we’d be better off without McBain.
by hurricane9 on Nov 30, 2011 12:49 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
It would be painful seeing Jussi go, but I’m a huge Bobby Ryan fan and seeing him in a Canes jersey would be far too good to pass up. I am not a fan of giving out hometown discounts just to trade players away, but I feel this is a unique situation.
The time to nab a Star Right Winger like Bobby Ryan is the second he is available because those type of players do not come around often. There is a very low chance that we will actually end up in a top-2 pick, which is where Yakupov and Grigorenko will go… the only two with Ryan’s potential and even then it is just potential.
If Jokinen were traded, my name would remain a tribute to one of my favorite Canes of all time!
Don't forget Ryan is only 24
not like you’re mortgaging your future.
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Nov 30, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
New Poster
Hello all…long time reader (2005) first time poster, probably due to the intimidation factor that I A) never played the sport B) Am not inside the loop like sittler27 C) Can’t speak to X’s and O’s like most of you. But I can tell you that I am one of the most passionate hockey chicks ever and make my comments based on years of observation of the sport. Short background…season ticket holder Chicago Blackhawks (92-96) back in the day when Roenick, Belfour and Chelios played in the old Chicago Stadium. Next moved to Tampa, season ticket holder (99-04), was there for the Stanley Cup win. Moved to Raleigh summer 04..after the lockout became a premier full season ticket holder for the Canes from (05-present) was here for the Cup win, of the 40 some home games per year I miss maybe 2-3,. So I may not know X’s and O’s but I have watched a hell of a lot of hockey!!
I may add some comments here and there from time to time. I have been as frustrated a Caniac as the rest of you this season, but am hopeful for a turnaround, albeit not a rapid one or one I believe will transpire this year. I agree with posters regarding the most pressing issues (lack of playing time for rookies, insufficient 4th line playing time, overslotting of Chad LaRose, wearing down of top players with excessive TOI, JR’s offseason bumbles over the last few years, Cheap ownership, PP disasters, Staal’s pouting) so I won’t beat a dead horse
. I would respectfully say that while I agree somewhat with AD’s assertion that we should look to build the organization through the draft given an ownership that has shown no propensity to spend money….i.e….Fail For Nail….how does that solve the Kaberle issue as we are still stuck with him for two more years? I said a silent prayer last night that PK would ante up for Bobby Ryan…..we had so many opportunities in the off season to provide assistance for Staal (Richards, Neal..to name a few)…and although I am also of the belief that for Staal’s salary he needs to get his act together, I also see that most teams in the NHL have at least 2 star caliber forwards.
Hockey is a team game, no matter how talented a player, he can’t do it all on his own. I am not a Staal apologist…I see his pouting routinely as I sit behind the benches, but how frustrating it must be to play for an organization that has either refused to invest in an adequate supporting cast, or at least give an opportunity to the young, supposedly high calibre talent we have in Charlotte…Boychuck and Dalpe will not develop into superstar ’s without PT and allowing chemistry to develop.
Hopefully Captain Kirk, will make his evaluations and implement some of the moves we Caniac’s desire. However if you have Jason Karmanos making a statement that they are committed to investing to make the playoff’s THIS Year…will we be back in the same reactionary boat and an 9-10 place finish inevitable.
So my wishes are this:
1) Get rid of Kaberle ASAP…include Gleason as well.
2) Please…please…please…PK…..Bobby Ryan NOW!!!!
3) Slot Chad appropriately
3) Bring up the kids and let’s evaluate truly what we have versus what is only optimism on our parts. Without this knowledge we can never implement a long term strategy for this club
I like AD believe this club is Really Really close…just a couple of players away,especially with the youngsters we currently have. As attendance dwindles (13,000+ last night) perhaps PK realizes that coaching is but the first step and personnel moves need to be made.
Off soapbox
PS: How do I get my Call tag in Bold like the rest of you? (Operational error!!)
by Canes-Bolts4ever on Nov 30, 2011 9:35 AM EST reply actions
woo! Another Canes/Bolts fan
I have company!
You know, I keep thinking about how Tampa needs a top 4 defenseman and Carolina needs a top 6 forward and wishing Ryan Malone didn’t have a NMC. That said, Bobby Ryan is a better pickup, if we can pick him up.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Bolts and Canes fan? Isn’t that like being a Leafs and Canadiens fan? And Preds too? That would be like adding Ottawa to the mix. I live outside of Toronto and I can say I have never seen that in my life! :)
if there were some sort of longstanding rivalry like the Leafs and Canadiens, I'm sure it would be
but there isn’t. I’ve been a Bolts fan for a long time (since before Carolina or Nashville had teams), and I’ve never borne any ill-will towards the ’Canes, so when I moved to NC this summer, I hopped onboard with them as my other team.
I don’t really follow the Preds much, but I like them best of any teams in the West. They are, after all, my home state team.
I also feel like there’s a sort of The South against the world going on in hockey that makes it easier to cheer for other Southern markets.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
come to think of it
the SE comparison that’s apt to Leafs/Habs is Caps/Bolts. Never seen anyone who’s a fan of both those teams. Because seriously, I hate the Caps.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
South vs the world? I know what you mean. I have a lot of friends around here who say that the NHL has to get rid of the teams in the south. They don’t care about hockey down there. Well, I’m sticking up for you guys! I hate the Leafs, and was so happy one of our wins during the losing streak was beating them.
I thought the rivalry would be bigger between the Lightning and Canes, with them being division rivals, but now that I think of it, with the playoff history the Devils-Canes have a pretty good one going.
I also like the Flames. Guess that’s my Canadian content. I’ve followed them for a long time as well. So, I don’t like the Lightning at all after they beat the Flames to win the Cup. ;)
not sure about Carolina
but the only SE division foe Tampa has ever met in the playoffs is Washington. Beat ’em 4-2 in the first round in 2003 before getting knocked out 4-1 by New Jersey, beat ’em 4-0 in the second round last year before getting knocked out 4-3 by Boston.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'm much more of a Canes fans, than TB but I live in Tampa now
so I pull for/listen to the Lightning games when the Canes aren’t on.
I'm the opposite
been a Bolts fan way longer, but I live in Durham now, so I go to Canes games when I can and pull for them when not playing Tampa.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Fixed It
I suffer from Blonde disease!
by Canes-Bolts4ever on Nov 30, 2011 9:38 AM EST reply actions
Good Morning
Well, we lost. Not surprised, there was absolutely no way to turn around the train wreck Mo left. When Lavi was fired, Mo still had a team playing better than .500 hockey, had a good offensive system and he could instill a minor tweak to the defensive play and gambling style and get results. Mo left no discernable system—nnt sure if we were an aggressive team, or a fall back defensive team. No lines to work from—Mo destroyed those.
So all Muller can do with a game day skate is what he did. Get the team to try to relax and play hard. They did. He got a chance to see the players, lines, and problem areas we’ve all seen under Mo this whole year. Now he has to go to work. And it will still be a piecemeal process. Can’t change and practice everything with a game every other day.
It’s small victories time people. We’re not a playoff team. FOGEDABOUDIT. Not from the position we are in now. I believe we have the talent, had we been in the 7-10 position to compete for a low playof spot. We do not have the talent to play and win as many games as we’d have to going forward from the position Mo left us and with the schedule Muller would have to work with to turn this team around. Acquiring a Ryan or so may change that, but without that change we’re not talented enough to play like a top three seed for the rest of the year in order to squeak in.
SO what do we need to see to call this change successful?? Turn around:
1) We need to see effort each game and each period consistently. Good start.
2) We need to see an entertaining style of hockey. Showing promise.
3) We need to look competitive, win lose or draw, i.e. once the system seems to be in, win at better than .500 to close the season.
4) We need to fix special teams so we’re at least average—prefereably better. Given the penalties we draw, an average PP alone would make us a .500 or better team…
5) We need to get the talent out of the current roster and get the players performing to their capabilities. That way we can better assess what we have and assess their fit to Muller’s systems.
6) We need to assess the talent we have, get it to produce, or get it elsewhere. This includes current roster players and prospects.
7) JR needs to fill holes—drat, trade, current prospects. Whatever works.
What did Muller accomplish last night?
I saw good team use of speed and passing, good offensive zone posession which finally kept another team out of our own zone for longer periods. He worked on that in the morning. He didn;t pull back the offense. Liked it.
I saw a better effort from Staal. Muller’s accountability standards will ensure that stays consistent. Others have remarked on it this thread seeing Staal think about it and then go back hard. Staal made at least two good backchecking plays he’d normally not have been back for.
I saw players motivated to try to earn better position and TOI: Sutter, Joslin, Faulk, in particular has some of their better efforts on the year.
Yes, I saw the same mistakes and flaws, but those are inherited problems. We already knew about them.
Let’s see whether it’s baby steps or strides forward from Muller—because ti will also take the team effort to learn and implement whatever changes he makes, and they’ve already seen lots of changes this year…
I’ll not condemn this team based on one game under the new coach, nor belabor errors and problems we’ve had for the last 2.3 years under Mo…. I did that already.
the effort was there, but no execution. I didn’t see a lot of offensive zone possession, I saw a lot of 1 and dones. Power play: we don’t have a half-wall player, Skinner’s not that guy, Jokinen supposed to be, but he’s not getting done. Until we get a player that can effectively setup the pp and distribute the puck from the half-wall the PP’s doomed. I don’t think we’ll see much change in their game for at least 3 games other than the compete level.
I can see that. We did have a lot of one and dones. Many of those came because of the 20 missed nets—the puck careens away and is an easier pick up and move up ice for them. Happened too much. But at the same time we did have multiple long posessions with chances created. Not every time, but considerably more than we did most other times this year.
Hard not to agree about seeing much change for the next three games as well. It’s to be expected. We’re not looking for tweaks to Mo’s ways, we need new systems and methods. That will take time. Hence my comments about us effectively not being a playoff contender. by the time we get our crap together it’ll be too late—if it’s not already. I feel with the talent we have, and even an instant turnaround, no way we win two outa every three here on out which would be necessary to make a spot…
Many of those came because of the 20 missed nets—the puck careens away and is an easier pick up and move up ice for them
Right, you miss the net from an angle it’s a breakout pass for the other team, something that’s taught in bantaam, there was a lot of poor decision making on the puck.
we need new systems and methods
I don’t know if Captain Kirk will be that much different, it will be a lot of minor tweeks, we’ll see.
Yeah, hard to say at this point. The biggest difference I expect is not to have him keep pulling the offense back and tying our hands behind our backs.
I’d like to see him reign back the defense a bit on their pinches and let the forwards take more of the offensive load….Mo kinda did the opposite: High forward to allow the defense to pinch.
High forward to allow the defense to pinch
That’s how it’s supposed to work. Timing and confidence are key in pinching. It’s an effective tool when used properly. Being hemmed in your own zone for prolonged periods of time is frustrating; Detroit, Chicago, and Pittsburgh are probably the best teams in NHL at this, they create a lot of offense with pinching.
I recognize that—but it’s more a rotation issue—they don’t station a forward between the defenders adn leave only two forwards to compete—Mo did do that often.
But you are right, when Mo was aggressive with the forwards and the defence we did try to play like that—a forward would rotate up when one defender pinched and the other moved towards the middle. We were just inconsistent as a team doing that and therefore we’d get caught often enough.
I sometimes thought part of the problem was we’d have games where the defenders could pinch at will because we kept a high forward, then other times we’d allow all three forwards to fight for the puck and ask the defender to make a decision before pinching—is there a forward rotating back?? SO we had pinches where either the defender didn;t have the forward, or the forward didn’t read it right and rotate back and we’d get burned. We were never very consistent, and that leads to problems. The other teams yo mentioned are nothing if not consistent.
My point was not that defenders could pinch without a high forward, my point was Mo’s tactics often took a forward away from the fight when posession was in question and placed him out by the blue line. Most other teams seem to leave that guy in between the circles as deep enough if they pull one out. Others allow all three forwards to work, and the D can only pinch when someone rotates back.
I agree with you, just exprssed what I didn’t like about some of Mo’s defense first tactics for the forwards to allow more defensive pinching—I always thought our offense worked better with three forwards in the mix and the defense pinching less.
Ryan Malone...no way
While the Canes can certainly use the Top 6 forward…no way I want to lose Malone…he gets injured quite a bit (as all guys do who play a physical style and get beat up as they park themselves in front of the net)…..he is however the type of player the Canes could use…if they brought in Poni or Stewart for that role…then they need more TOI and need to be more offensively productive (although Poni has played better recently and Stewart doesn’t get enough TOI to evaluate)
Bolts definitely need the D….but I don’t see any potential trade for the Bolts with what the Canes have (Gleason/Kabs/McBain)…definitely NOT an imporvement!
by Canes-Bolts4ever on Nov 30, 2011 10:01 AM EST reply actions
yeah, I wouldn't want to lose him either
which is why I think the ‘Canes would like him. I’m not quite as familiar with the relative abilities of the ‘Canes players (especially D-men) to know which (if any) would be attractive, I just know that a lot of people here are talking defense for offense, and that’s what perked my ears.
That said, he’s’ got a NMC, so it was never a serious suggestion.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Palookaville
Look, kid, I – how much you weigh, son? When you weighed one hundred and sixty-eight pounds you were beautiful. You coulda’ been another Wayne Gretzky, and that skunk Maurice we got you for a manager, he brought you along too fast.
Staal : It wasn’t him, Jimmy , it was you.
Remember that night in the Garden you came down to my dressing room and you said, “Kid, this ain’t your night. We’re going for the price on Tomas Kaberle.” You remember that?
“This ain’t your night”! My night! I coulda taken the Rangers apart! So what happens? He gets the title shot outdoors on the ballpark and what do I get? A one-way ticket to Palooka-ville!
You was my brother, Jimmy, you shoulda’ looked out for me a little bit. You shoulda taken care of me just a little bit so I wouldn’t have to take them dives for the short-end money.
Rutherford: Oh I had some bets down for you. You saw some money.
Staal: You don’t understand. I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let’s face it. It was you, Jimmy.
by oldskoolwhalercane on Nov 30, 2011 10:10 AM EST reply actions
No Grey Area
Canes-Bolts highly unusual I know but geographically just the way life worked out. I went through my first cup run in Tampa…it’s kind of like never forgetting your first love!
My belief is that the Canes either need to be all in or all out….if the choice is to be out (of the playoffs that is)…then to AD’s point, FAIL for Nail (or given this years draft another TOP prospect and I mean TOP)…and fail enough to get that pick. Otherwise you end up with another first rounder that is not prepared to make an immediate impact and has to be sent to Charlotte or back to juniors for development. We do not need another one of those …we currently have plenty IMHO. We need a TOP pick that can contribute immediately…a.la..Skinner.
If the Canes choose to be all IN (playoff push)…then make the trade. What is Bobby Ryan’s cap hit…a little over 5 mil. He is signed through 2014-2015. Given today’s salaries how often does a YOUNG, PROVEN, NHL scorer come along that is the perfect complement to your Star player…for around 5 mil? If we wasted over 4 mil on Kabs I say make Bobby Ryan happen….dump the wasted space D men we currently have…bring up some kids and let’s go for it.
If the Canes go somewhere in the middle (as is par for the course….we may be having this same conversation again next year especially if JR’s off season is as unspectacular as this ones was.
by Canes-Bolts4ever on Nov 30, 2011 11:33 AM EST reply actions
Canes have a 98.7% Chance of Missing The Playoffs
According to sportsclubstats.com, the Hurricanes have a 98.7% chance at present of making the playoffs.
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL/Eastern/Southeast/Carolina.html
Given the miracle it would take the make the playoffs, it’s time to plan for the future. Kaberle obviously was a $4.25 million disaster. He seems to be gaming the system; and is giving less than marginal effort. Maybe he realized Maurice was going to be fired and that he was going to be dealing with another coach. In any event, there is no point in mortgaging the future with only a 1.3% chance of success.
As much as I’d love to get Bobby Ryan, I can’t see the wisdom in giving up a huge number of players and draft picks. It’s ugly at the moment; and choices are limited. The Hurricanes have an upper end talent deficit. Trading around to get marginal improvements in the third and fourth line are not going to be the difference maker. It’s the same story as at the end of last season. UNLOAD KABERLE and don’t add another tired retread who is done as an NHL player; add one elite scorer, add one elite defenseman, let the kids like Dalpe, Rask, Boychuk, and 2012 fwd pick develop; and things get better fast.
that's extremely misleading
you’re using the weighted method, which means Carolina has a 98.7% chance of missing the playoffs if we continue playing as poorly as we have the last two months. Hardly a surprise.
Using the 50/50 method, Carolina has a 12% chance of making the playoffs. Obviously, neither of those two perfectly capture the real picture, but if we start playing better hockey, the chances of making a comeback are much higher than 1%. I went through the last four seasons, and of the last seven teams to be 7+ points out of 8th on November 27th (yes, this is a couple days out of date), three of them came back to finish in at least a tie for 8th, and two made the playoffs. Those odds say 28%. Which I’m sure aren’t perfectly reflective of our chances either, I’m just pointing out that your 1.3 number is really a worst case scenario.
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by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
That is not true. In fact, Sports Club Stats runs millions of different permutations to come up with its analysis. It is only a prediction of the future; but it is quite sophisticated.
did you even read the explanation of how the percentages are derived?
I did.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, read it several different times. It predicts not that the same pattern will continue. It takes the present situation and then runs the different permutations possible at a point in time with the points. It is not at all a straight line approach of here the Canes are today and if things continue today for the rest of the season, here are the results. As the situations that were futuristic and predicted change, there is a different reality. It changes every day to reflect which of the hundreds of thousands of possible results occurred.
I know what possibilia are
but the one you linked was weighted such that permutations that follow a similar pattern to what we’ve seen so far are seen as more probable.
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Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
If you have a more scientific and proven methodology I know I’d be very excited to see it. Thus far the Sports Club Stats approach has been as close as one could hope for given the fact it is predicting the future. Assuming that teams playing poorly are more likely to continue to play poorly than play well seems to me to be more probable than a sudden awakening.
well it's obvious that if we play poorly, we're not making the playoffs
the real question is if we start playing well, what are the chances of making the playoffs? That’s how we determine how much we should invest in a chance to seriously improve our play this year. and if that happens, the 12% of the non-weighted average is likely much more accurate than the 1.3% of the weighted average.
And I did say earlier that 42% of the last seven teams to be this poor through the first two months of the season have recovered to finish in the top eight (plus ties) of their conference, didn’t I?
Heel for school, Vol for life!
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by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a question as framed that answers itself. If the Hurricanes play great and go on a scoring binge winning 75% of their remaining games, will they be playing well enough to make the playoffs, yes. If the Hurricanes lose every game will they play well enough to make the playoffs, no. What are the chances the Hurricanes of 2011-2012 will suddenly evolve into the best team in the NHL, too low to bet money on it happening; but could it occur, absolutely. If anybody is convinced it will happen, I feel certain in legalized gambling in Los Vegas one could make a fortune betting on the Hurricanes. I know I am not flying out to Los Vegas to lay my money down on that bet.
depends on what odds you're giving me
haha
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
speaking of which
the ’Canes are currently 45:1 to win the Eastern Conference.
So yes, I’d take that 75:1 to make the playoffs (1.3% chance in odds format) in a heartbeat
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Your on!
Let’s bet beers. Canes in the Playoffs I buy you 75 beers. Canes out you buy me one. One provision all the beers must be consumed in the RBC from the time the Canes clinch or are eliminated from the regular season or playoffs.
from that time until when? the end of the 2012-13 season?
heh
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 1, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Not too misleading
If you assume we need 94 points to make the playoffs, we need 74 points in 56 games remaining. That’s 1.34 points per game, or 37 wins out of 56 games (we’d need to win 2 out of every three games—which represents a presidents cup pace for us for the rest of the year).
Even clicking on all cyliders, with all our talent playing above their potential, we’re not that good. Doug’s right—we’re not getting to the playoffs this year.
In other words
Do you honsetly think with this roster, this team is capable of winning the Presidents Cup compared to and up against the rest of the league?? That’s the type of tear and pace required for us to make the playoffs.
If not, you’d have to conclude we don’t have much chance of making the playoffs—say about 1.3% or so…
that's also misleading, as it doesn't include OT losses
I’m not saying it’s not a huge longshot, because it certainly is, I’m just saying that weighted predictions that expect bad teams to keep being bad aren’t the most apt when you’re asking what a team can do if they play a lot better under a new staff.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
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by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
In a way it does
Other teams we need to leap frog over ALSO get overtime points in their losses. It’s one of the reasons leaping over other teams is so hard. That’s why it’s not worth breaking the wins and losses further down to ties. Well unless you forbid the teams you are trying to overtake from losing in anything other than regulation…
It doesn’t matter so much about how you get the points—-it’s still a PPG pace with comparable to a full season’s President Cup winner’s pace. No matter ties for losses or not.
Do you thingk this team is capable of a President Cup’s type of performance for the rest of the year? Or maybe only a 1.3% chance of such a run…
okay, that's fair
but I think your setting out 94 points as the goal already takes that into consideration.
but yeah, it’s obviously a longshot, I’m just not sure it’s a 1.3% longshot. Teams go on runs, even bad teams. The chances of sustaining those runs for four months are not wonderful, but they’re probably better than that
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
What you are missing is what it takes to make the playoffs!! Even if we turn it around, ignoring what other teams do, looking only at historic points required as a reasonable target to make the playoffs we need TOO MANY. It is very unlikely we become a true top tier team, Stanley Cup favorite contender, with our talent (forwards and especially on defense) which is what it would take to make the playoffs.
It’s not just about us playing better. To get to those points would require every other team to play WORSE. i.e. lose a few more because we’d have to beat them. That’s alos unlikely. That’s the part you are missing inhow these percentages are computed.
it doesn't take turning into a Cup contender
I pointed out in another thread that Buffalo had the same record last year as we did yesterday, and they made the playoffs as a 7 seed and lost to a struggling Philly team in the first round.
There’s been a lot more parity in hockey the past couple years. Runs like this happen more frequently than you’d think. Are we going to make one? I highly doubt it. Would we make one if we nab a legit talent to play with Staal? Still well under 50% chance, but it’s at least on the table.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I_S and I have already been over this in said thread, but please note that Buffalo was NEVER below 11th regardless of record. The Canes sunk lower last night and now have the lost points earned per game in the East. It is simply NOT the same scenario as Buffalo last year.
we dropped below NYI last night?
damn.
well, the Caps were 30th in the NHL a few years ago and came back to finish 6th in the East. That was a hell of a run though.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yup – won 11 of their last 12. Even as late as Jan 1 they were in 14th, but they were only 6 points behind the Canes (div leaders) and had 4 head to head games left.
It’s hard to spin this season in a positive enough light. If they don’t start rattling off a few wins, it’s not even worth talking about.
this is undoubtedly true
If they don’t start rattling off a few wins, it’s not even worth talking about.
But completely giving up in November still seemed too early for me
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 1, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Freaky. That’s almost the same chance we had of MAKING the playoffs on April 1, 2008.
by Jamie Kellner on Nov 30, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
use the reply button for threaded commenting
really helps keep things straight. just fyi
I think Bobby Ryan is the kind of guy you want whether you’re trying to rebuild or make an (unlikely) push for this year. Just depends on what you have to give up. Sadly, I think no one will take Kaberle as part of any trade—that was just a poor pickup. I don’t really have a good handle on what it’ll take, but we’d better be at least looking into it
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
heh
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by Incipient_Senescence on Nov 30, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Well when reading JRs comments about the Nodl Waiver pickup he says Nodl adds to the top 12 of the forwards. Considering we have plenty of depth for 3-4th line guys this points to a major move to happen sooner rather than later. i would be shocked if we make it through the week without a trade.
I liked Nodl’s speed last night. Also remember he saw lots of time on Richards wing last year in philly!
Look for a top 6 forward to be moved along with a D.
Moving a Top 6 Forward and Defenseman
Sounds great except that the top six for the Hurricanes are Skinner, Staal, Ruutu, Ponikarovsky, Jokinen, and LaRose.
On the test of being easily replaced, here is how I see the chart:
Skinner: No
Staal: No
Ruutu: No
Jokinen: No
Ponikarovsky: maybe, prefer not
LaRose: Yes
Defense and replaceable test:
Gleason: Yes (as long as only one of Gleason and Allen are traded)
Allen: Yes (as long as only one of Gleason and Allen are traded)
Pitkanen: No
Faulk: No
Harrison: Yes (as long as only one of Harrison and Joslin are traded)
Joslin: Yes (as long as only one of Harrison and Joslin are traded)
McBain: Yes (but a mistake to trade him except for a huge return)
Kaberle: YES (unload for anything you can get, waive, take away the uniform etc.)
What is clear from the review is that the Hurricanes don’t have the pieces to move to get a huge return for a top 6 forward unless they also trade prospects or draft picks.
Either Ruutu or Jokinen is going. Only fwds worth anything. Gleason and McBain could go.
Now, it this what I want? NO! I’d rather Joslin be traded, but he doesn’t have as much upside as McBain. And we have Murphy coming up next year if all goes as planned in his development. So McBain is expendable.
No one’s going to want Ponikarovsky or Larose. Dwyer yes.
Harrumph
LaRose versus Dwyer
I don’t disagree that Dwyer may have more trade value than LaRose. If I were picking a team, I’d go with Dwyer over LaRose as well. I didn’t go to our third line and fourth line in terms of how easily replaced:
Tlusty: Yes
Sutter: No
Dwyer: Yes
Stewart: Yes (I wouldn’t b/c he has much more to give and w/ the right coaching & conditioning could be a very solid contributor on at least the third line)
Brent: No
Nodl: Yes (but I wouldn’t b/c he is a solid 3rd line player who might blossom into a 2nd line RW)
How has Nodl become a solid 3rd liner that could blossom into a 2nd liner? The guy wasn’t even dominate in the AHL for Philly. He’s probably a solid 4th liner that could blossom into a 3rd liner.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
by PackPride17 on Nov 30, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Nodl in 2010-2011
http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/stats.htm?season=20102011
Nodl in 2010-2011 had 11 goals, 11 assists, for 22 points in 67 games, with 2 game winning goals and 1 short handed goal. His goal percentage was 11%.
Similarly in 2010-2011, Samsonov in 58 games had 10 goals, 16 assists, and 26 points with a shooting percentage of 11.5%. Dwyer in 80 games had 8 goals, 10 assists, for 18 points. Nodl is a great skater with excellent speed. He has excellent hands and elusiveness. So yes, I think the data shows he could blossom into a 2nd line scorer; but he is a solid third line two way right wing with size and speed as it is now.
Average size.
Therefore I would add size in your comment….He’s not small I’ll give you that. But size?? That’s more a comment for Stewart and Poni… Maybe Staal as in “reach” size…
Nodl 6'1" 196 lbs; Dwyer: 5'11" 185; LaRose 5'8" 185;
No doubt that Poni and Stewart are beasts. On most teams, 6’1", 195" would be appropriate, decent, average size. On the Hurricanes, it makes Nodl one of the larger players on the team. Ruutu, who is truly a monster in his hitting is 6’, 200 lbs (as listed).
So with 22 points in 67 games, he averaged 0.33 PPG. And his 2 years in the AHL, he averaged 0.52 points per season. About half a point a game is what it takes to be an tweener 2nd line player in the NHL. How do those stats give you confidence that he could do it at the NHL level?
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
by PackPride17 on Nov 30, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Go back and watch Nodl against the Hurricanes. He looked great when he played the Canes which may explain why Jim Rutherford picked him up off of waivers. The goals he scored in 2010-2011 were often important goals (which I noticed in watching the Flyers games last season). 2 of his 11 goals were game winners. So I guess it is my eyes that told me he has the size, speed, skating, hands to be a player that with an opportunity makes the most of it.
Maybe he can, but I just don’t evidence that he has taken advantage of those abilities in the pros. He’s not old by any means, but he’s not young either. Hell, Boychuk out performed him in his AHL rookie season with 0.69 PPG and was over a PPG player last season. And he is considered a questionable top 6 player in the NHL.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
Ok, let’s just say Boychuk is a future top 6 player. He has averaged 0.89 PPG and is a combined +5 at the AHL level. He has used his abilities to be one of the better players in the AHL and it has earned him a couple of call-ups to the NHL. Nodl has averaged 0.51 PPG and is a combined -10 at the AHL level. That’s not poor by any mean, but its not like he was above average at AHL standards. So why would he suddenly become a 2nd line player in the NHL? I’m sorry, your comment just doesn’t make sense to me.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
He would become a top six forward with a coach like Muller who knows how to teach young forwards who are fast, 6’1’ 195 lbs, with soft hands and a good hockey brain. Nodl has already scored 11 goals in fairly limited use and 2 of those 11 goals were game winners. I watched Nodl closely when he was playing last year. You disagree.
I do disagree that he could become a 2nd line player. Dwyer had 8 goals last season, 2 were game winners; does that make him a potential 2nd line player? I like Dwyer, but would he be on the 3rd line on 80% of NHL hockey teams; no. Chad LaRose had 19 goals and 4 game winners in the 08/09 season. Does that mean he is a true top 6 player?
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
Well this team has alot of marginal talent that can be moved into the top 6 but are not true top 6 players.
I think we need an upgrade in the top 3 for sure! How do we get that player? Draft or Trade?
Players of that caliber are hard to acquire via a trade and you need significant players to trade to get the upgraded player. Bobby ryan is the hot talk atm. We do have enough to get him but do we want to give that up?
I would be alright with tanking this year as long as we get a top 3-4 pick and preferably top 2. The problem is you cant really guarantee that happening and you cant be sure that pick will be the next great player.
Draft is the cheaper of the 2 but less certain!
by RobbinDollar on Nov 30, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I honestly have no problem trading away Ruutu. He is on the last year of his deal and I’m sure he is going to want to make at least $4 million per season with his new deal. I think if we have Staal/Ryan on one line & Jussi/Skinner on the other, those are 4 guys that have 30 goal potential in the top 6. We then could fill out those lines with capable tweeners, but we need another star player to fill out our top 6. I would love to see a top 6 that includes:
?/Staal/Ryan
Skinner/Jussi/?
Filling in those spots with players like Boychuk, Dalpe, Rask, or a top draft choice.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
by PackPride17 on Nov 30, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Given the salary Cap floor, we’d need to keep Ruutu just to get there…. 4 mil is fine. Less than what Cole got….
Not if we pick up Ryan.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
by PackPride17 on Nov 30, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Well getting Ryan would likely cost us at least one Boychuk, Dalpe or Rask.
by RobbinDollar on Nov 30, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Dalpe and Rask are the Canes two best forward prospects due to their size, speed, and hands. Boychuk is close behind and probably is tied with them. I wouldn’t trade either Dalpe or Rask under any circumstances.
I’m a big Dalpe fan & I also believe Rask can be a real good NHL player in a couple of seasons, but if it meant getting a proven 30+ goal guy in Ryan; then JR would have to consider it.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
yes and hopefully he will be back soon…Who’s out when he comes back? Do you think Kirk will sit Kabs?
We really need to move a D-man.. even if its just for a pick!
We have had issues filling out a top 6 D corps in the past…. when the injury bug has hit, so I guess its better to have excess then being depleted!
by RobbinDollar on Nov 30, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I have liked his game this year for sure.
Funny thing is…. I remember people not liking that we brought him back this summer. He might be our best value player!
by RobbinDollar on Nov 30, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Kaberle Buyout Part 2
Are we still on the schneid for the OTHER Kaberle brother’s payout? Why not cut your losses and add another, unless you REALLy believe you will get any value for him. Are you only on the hook for half of the remaining contract if you buy out? I read an article where T.Kaberle discussed joining the Canes with his brother prior to signing…..F Kaberle probably told him to go ahead and sign, even if you stink there is always the possibility of a buyout !!!
Can I have my cake and eat it too…is there no scenario where we can still get Bobby Ryan even if it is for the longer haul and not completely hamper the rest of the team longterm? Do we have enough faith that what would be left would be enough? How long before Murphy/Duomolin (sp)/Rask/Boychuk/Dalpe/Nash are ready?
by Canes-Bolts4ever on Nov 30, 2011 1:39 PM EST reply actions
You know I’m exciting being a Canes fan right now. We just got a new coach and there are rumors all over about us trying to acquire Bobby Ryan. While I would LOVE to get Ryan and think we should do it; I know it’s not going to happen. But it’s fun to think we might actually do something big, trying to improve our team, rather than our normal underwhelming moves.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
yeah, but even Weight & Recchi were not coming off three straight 30 goal seasons.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
And that was also an exciting time to be a Canes fan.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
Weight chose to come here. Who would do that now ?
It’s kinda like the W.C.Fields quote: “I wouldn’t be part of any organization that would have me as a member.”
I’m not sure I would think much of a player that would waive a No-Trade to be here now.
by drifterscape on Nov 30, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Well if a move is to be made there really are only a limited number of options. Rumor has it that to get a Bobby Ryan, NHL caliber player(s) and a pick would have to go back in return. My guess is that a good prospect could be substituted for the pick. By my read here’s who is available and under what circumstances:
Ruutu – pending UFA, probably available for the right price, but Anaheim won’t want him unless he’s re-signed
Jokinen – $3.0 million for a 30 goal scorer? Do we really want to give that up? For Bobby Ryan, probably, but not for much else. Plus the hometown discount he took invokes the JR loyalty factor
Ponikarovsky – clearly trade bait – has he done enough to indicate high enough value? Moreover, now that he’s effectively using his big body in front of the net, is he somebody we want to get rid of?
LaRose – too much of a heart and soul guy specific to the Canes, but probably available. His salary is probably a bit high for his overall recent production.
Dwyer – a nice throw in. Better offensively than we Caniacs give him credit for.
Tlusty – good pedigree plus he’s starting to show something this year. Currently probably viewed as a 3rd liner on most teams (w/some upside)
McBain – no matter how much I may personally hate it, he’s probably the center-piece of any deal.
Gleason – another pending UFA who played 8 to 10 really good games for us this year and then seemingly has dropped off somewhat. Still a good reputation as a Top 4 defender w/grit.
Allen – pending UFA who has really played well for us this year. He has size and a mean streak that make him attractive. Seems to be more mobile this year than last.
Harrison – very good bottom pairing guy (maybe rising). Most improved Cane over the last 2 years. May turn some GM heads if they are savvy.
Kaberle – if wishes were horses….really needs to keep playing and the Canes need to hope he shows some of his historic scoring skill, especially on the PP. Most fans want him traded, has the least current value.
There are others in the mix. I’ve got to think that JR has had inquiries about Boychuk, Dalpe, Faulk, and maybe Nash (who along with Sanguinetti are right on the cusp of young “has beens”). I also believe that we have two 2nd round picks and 2 4th round picks in the upcoming draft; so we have lots of chips for a trade.
Rumor also had it that Paul Stasny was available and I believe that Colorado would value a defender more than some clubs…just my two cents worth.


























