Baby Steps: Rangers 5, Hurricanes 3
by Bob Wage on Dec 1, 2011 10:38 PM EST
in Carolina Hurricanes Game Recaps
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The Carolina Hurricanes dropped their fifth straight game on Thursday night with a 5-3 loss to the New York Rangers in front of 12,566 at the RBC. Regardless of the losing streak, head coach Kirk Muller tried to focus on the positive after the game and said that his team was taking "baby steps" in the process to get better.
"No one said this thing's going to change over night," said the coach.
The Canes have now lost 12 of their last 15 games.
The home team got off to a fast start as Jiri Tlusty blasted a shot past Martin Biron right off a faceoff just 35 seconds into the game. Brandon Sutter got the lone assist.
But Ryan Callahan tied things up just a minute and change later during a powerplay advantage for the blueshirts.
The teams battled evenly the rest of the period until Jeff Skinner knocked in his 11th of the season with just 8.7 seconds on the clock. But the Rangers would take control of the game in the second as they scored three straight before Carolina could stop the bleeding.
Derek Joslin scored his first of the season two minutes and change before the end of the second, but that would be the last time the Hurricanes would light the lamp.
The Rangers added insurance in the third to close things out.
Game Notes:
- Coach Muller was happy to see his team stand up for each other. Anthony Stewart jumped into action after Jeff Skinner took a questionable hit by Brian Boyle midway through the third. Stewart was whistled with an instigator penalty for his trouble, which comes with a 10 minute misconduct, but it still was good to see him step up in that way.
- When asked about Cam Ward's play, the coach said he was satisfied with it and he didn't expect the goalie to do it on his own. Ward allowed five goals on 27 shots.
- The Canes outshot the Rangers, 31-27. Skinner had a team high five shots. They only missed the net seven times in this game, but had 22 shots blocked.
- The home team had 21 blocks of their own led by Derek Joslin and Tim Gleason with four each.
- They were credited with 17 hits led by Stewart with three.
- Eric Staal had a two point night with two assists. He quietly has a three game point streak going.
- The team won 53% of their faceoffs. (Staal 60%, Jokinen 64%, Jokinen 38%, Brent 60%)
- The fourth line picked up a little more ice time this game. Brent was low man at 7:21 as both Nodl and Stewart had over eight minutes each. Staal led the entire team with 22:41 of ice time.
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I pretty much only saw the first 25 minutes
which looked really nice. I guess it went downhill.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 1, 2011 11:09 PM EST reply actions
I could not make this one. Did I still hear boo birds at the end on TV? Or were my ears playing tricks?
you may have heard some boos, there were some, but enough Rangers fans to have an actual cheer at the end too. Didn’t seem (to me) like there was much of a chance they would get a goal back (let alone tie it), so the outcome seemed inevitable (to me). So yeah, some boos during that cluster of an extra man sequence.
Time to put the Skins and Finns back together...
Ruutu and Jussi need to be put back on a line with Skinner. Jokinen is lost with LaRose and Poni with him. The 2nd line of them haven’t done much of anything in my opinion. We really need to add some skill to our forwards. Specifically a forward who has some passing skills and vision. I can’t get too upset since I’m not really expecting much for a while with the current roster other than hustle, energy and a powerplay that slowly improves.
Harrison can’t get healthy soon enough to he can replace Kabs Also, Gleason has become soooooooo slow. He’s a shell of the player he was when made the Olympic team. Kind of sad but I’d rank him behind Joslin and Faulk at this point with his play.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
Anyone mind finding the turnover numbers for LaRose? He played like crap. He wasn’t even hustling as he normally does. I think a lot of the team was playing in slow motion last night. Is it possible that the long practice drained their energy a bit too much before a game against a fast, talented team? I particularly noticed that Joslin was playing very slow tonight. I still believe he is feeling the effects of the mono which is why Maurice never kept him in the line-up for long periods of time. And Pitkanen is surely still injured. He came back without much practice and had a so-so game. I think he may have reinjured himself in that game or the Florida game (can’t remember what game or play in particular, but I remember him getting hurt and skating slowly to the bench) which is why he’s been listed as “day-to-day”. And then tonight he was injured again for a stretch.
Here’s what I want to see and I will be happy:
- Trade for a serious top 6 forward
- Put together the best possible lines that we have. I would love to see the Skins and Finns line again, but I think one of the two Finns will be traded soon.
- Trade one of the following defenseman (or all if possible) to get some value back (in my order of preference): Kaberle, Gleason, Allen, McBain
- Dump some of our bottom 6 for picks and call up the prospects and give them real time
- Play Boucher on Saturday
I must say, that attendance is extremely pathetic and I hope PK is getting a hint. It is even worse when you consider that the team could barely muster 12,500 when the opponent was one of the most talented teams in the league, when there is a large Rangers fanbase here, when they were giving away BOGO vouchers, when it was College Night, and when there was a Jeff Skinner promotional item. The locker room still seems to be sad over the firing of Maurice (Forslund talked about this actually) and it can’t be good coming out before the game to see half the arena empty (I was actually expecting less than 10,000, but then the people stuff in traffic arrived during the early 1st period). I hope the long road trip they go on brings the team back together under some new coaches.
Speaking of coaches, I liked what I could see of MacLean from my seat. He seemed very hands-on with the forwards and active behind the bench. Much, much different than Maurice and Barrasso/Brindy.
“- Dump some of our bottom 6 for picks and call up the prospects and give them real time”
No joke. They have got to be trading some of these guys. Picking up Nodl is making zero sense if a few of them are not on their way out.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
Well keep your panties on kids. A third of the NHL had scouts at the game, lets say trade, Staal. With the amount of non productive players on the roster Staal I’dsay there will be some action soon. Staal I’m not sure which player is on my mind to trade first Staal. I just hope JR’s rabbits foot has one good one left. Staal I’m guessing it will be another multi team/player trade Staal. While the lack of scoring Staal Stalled Staal Staal is evident I also think the D just flat out sucks so the team, I hope, is in the market for a 2 elite players, a forward NOT Staal and a top D man.
And for those that can’t read between the lines, Staal even with the 2 huge points last night is a pathetic .5 point per game and he is behind Chad LaRose and is minus 17. All the Staal lovers unite, may the hockey Gods grant JR the balls to trade him. Make any excuse you want for him, he isn’t living up to his respo. Trade him for Booth or Kessler or a bag of pucks. Lead, follow or get out of the way. Mo down, all we need is Staal next.
Off to work, cheerio!
A
Getting old sucks!
by Paladin6 on Dec 2, 2011 5:54 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Brilliant Paladin, brilliant! Staal has 2 points (4 in his past 3 games) and Cam let’s in everything, including the kitchen sink, last night & you say trade Staal. At least you keep things fresh, I thought I’d never hear you say anything negative against Eric. Maybe JR can trade Staal and get 3 or 4 more 3rd/4th liners to fill out our lineup? We seem to like those type of guys.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
by PackPride17 on Dec 2, 2011 7:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
glad I'm not the only one
whose been calling for Staal to go. Really sick of people clamoring “all he needs is an elite winger” how about finding an elite center for Skinner. IMO I’d rather build my team around Skinner than Staal. Staal is so overrated for what he’s getting paid it’s ridiculous. When you’re earning Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin money, you should be putting up the same numbers as them. I for one wouldn’t be sad at all to see Staal and his ridiculous contract shown the door.
It’s the big show. Entertainment dollars. Staal is THE poster boy for the NHL especially after he MC’d the ASG last year. Really? Then can you remember who the real MC was? The Sutters, The Staals, um, there are others, give me a minute. Ring, ring, “Hello, this is the Eye, how can I help you?” “Hello, I was just wondering? What jersey sells the most in your store?”
Staal does need an elite winger. Or a bunch or really creative, fast guys around him. LIke Cullen, Whitney, Cole, Skinner, Jokinen. And about 90 other guys on other teams right now.
And he gets paid what he does because he is in the same league as Malkin, Ovechkin, Crosby. He has put up their numbers.
Hell, I’m in a slump right now. We all go through it. Are we really gonna go from bashing MO to bashing Staal? LIke we bashed Roddy last year?
You cannot call yourself a fan if you’re not gonna cheer for your team.
by coastalcaniac on Dec 2, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
So since Staal is being paid like Malkin, Crosby, & Ovechkin; he should be putting up the same numbers? Look at who those players get to play with compared to Staal.
Ovechkin – Backstrom (over a PPG player in his NHL career and has scored a maximum of 33 goals in 1 season), Semin (while a little lazy, he has 5 straight season of 26+ goals with a maximum of 40 goals in 1 season), Knuble (he has 6 staright years of 24+ goals), Green (had 3 straight 50+ point season before some injuries and scored 31 goals one season, from a defenseman).
Crosby & Malkin- Crosby (over a 1.25 PPG player in his NHL career and 5 of 6 seasons over 30 goals with a max of 51 in 1 season), Malkin (over a PPG player in his NHL career and had 3 straight 33+ goal seasons before suffering from some injuries that limited his games, but his PPG average is still over 1), Kunitz (4 of the last 5 seasons of 21+ goals), Staal (3 of 5 seasons with 21+ goals), and the parade of other good to All-Star calibar players they have played with; Letang, Gonchar, Hossa, Guerin, Recchi, Ryan Malone, Ryan Whitney, James Neal.
Now look at Staal’s teammates. There are some good ones, but are they up to the same level as Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin?
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
FWIW I think Skinner is at Backstrom’s level if not better (potential wise). However even with Skinner it is abundantly clear that Skinner is the superior player in that group.
Staal just isn’t the elite player he is paid to be. He had one amazing 100 point year playing alongside greats when he had youthful exuberance and reckless abandon but he doesn’t play the same game now. He is probably a $6-7 million player on the open market.
by JussiJuice on Dec 2, 2011 2:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree that Staal is overpaid, I think he would be a $7 million dollar player. But I don’t believe he is as washed up/poor as some on Canes Country make him out to be. While this year has been bad for him, I still believe he is a top 20 player in the NHL. Is he a 100 point player; no. Is he a 90 point player; I believe so with the right linemates. Just look at all of the great feeds he’s had this season that weren’t converted. I know not all of them are going to go in, but a true finisher on his line would have scored on a good number of those. Even when Cole was his linemate; Cole wasn’t particularly known for having great hands. Isn’t Cole a 2nd liner on an average Montreal team? We had him on our 1st.
Crosby is definitely an exception, he would be great no matter who he played with; but look at others. Would Getzlaf be as good if not playing with Perry & Ryan or Selanne on the PP? Look how much Parise misses his former playing partner in Zajac and he is still playing with an elite talent in Kovalchuk.
If the Canes want to be a successful franchise, they need Staal & Skinner & really another elite forward. That is one of the reasons I think they should go hard after Ryan if he is truely available. Get a good top 6 and fill out the bottom six with our typical players. If you have Ryan & Staal on the top line, then you fill that RW with a mediocre RW; it should still work because of the talent of Ryan & Staal. You then put Skinner & Jussi on the 2nd line and fill the other slot with a top prospect like Dalpe or Rask. You then have a strong 3rd line center like Sutter and fill out his line with cheaper players like a Dwyer/Tlusty/Stewart/prospect/etc. Then your 4th line would have some cheap players or young players that can contribute on special teams. You have to get out of the mode of overpaying for 3rd/4th liners like LaRose. He’s a great guy, but is seriously not worth as much as he is getting paid here.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
THANK YOU Paladin6
I don’t know about trading him for Kessler, though.
by RonnieHawkins97 on Dec 2, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I can't believe I'm agreeing with Tripp Tracy
He was saying last night that the Rangers are a team “that expects to win, instead of a team trying to win” — I think that’s the stark difference between a team like NY and a team like Carolina. I certainly don’t want to pile on ex-coach Mo, but criticism is valid when and where it applies; after two straight seasons of his brand of coddling players and playing not to lose, there is a pervasive attitude of losing throughout the team. It’s palpable — you can totally see it on the ice. This is going to be one of the major plusses of Captain Kirk and his crew coming on board, bringing the experience of winning to guys who haven’t really had much of it the past two seasons.
I have a feeling we’re going to be seeing some longtime fan favorites traded before the season is up like Jokinen and LaRose. Neither one is a factor anymore for whatever reason, and I think Muller is going to weed-out those kinds of guys.
Wow, Kaberle sucks hard, as does LaRose. Happy to see Stewart stand up for Skinner. Team is playing hard, the wins will start to come. Keep the faith!
LET'S GO CANES -- THE SEASON AIN'T OVER YET!!!
Caddyshack
We are like the Rangers, that is, the Rangers of 2008. We will need some tincture of time to restore the can do attitude of past teams. Losing always sucks, but the last 2 losses were at least better team efforts in all 3 zones. Had this kind of compete level existed from the beginning of the season we would be in much better position in the standings than now. Florida and New York are top teams in the league right now. The Rangers are hot,hot, hot. They will beat a lot of teams more convincingly than they did us last nite. Tortorella did not turn the Rangers around in 2 games, more like 2 seasons. But that turn around began with 2 games. This season is now the building block for better seasons to come. At least we got that going for us.
Jussi is "not a factor anymore" because neither Skinner, Ruutu, or Stall are on a line with him. And his has La Rose "anchoring" his line, and by anchoring I mean dragging down.
Once, during Prohibition, I was forced to live for days on nothing but food and water ~ W.C. Fields
by SouthernHockeyFan on Dec 2, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
I really like what Joslin is bringing to the Canes right now. He is very physical and makes his presence known, at least a few times a game he will straight overpower a charging forward and throw him to the ice which is something we aren’t used to seeing of late.
I vote he stays in the lineup, makes it easier to consider moving one of Allen/Gleason if a decent deal comes around.
+1
Agree. Joslin skates better than either one of those two, and can be more offensive as well. Muller made a comment last night about goals against coming from our guys losing their man. I think his vision is for a more mobile defense. Allen, Gleason, and of course Kaberle do not qualify as mobile.
Interesting that McBain has been a healthy scratch the last few games, especially since rumors of scouts and trades pending. I still believe there is some player movement very soon, but I believe the ‘Canes can’t dump big salaries. Correct me if I’m wrong, but they are near the league minimum, so JR has to maintain a salary balance. If that is accurate, moving big salaries out requires taking on some salaries.
Puck movement looked much quicker during the power plays.
I have no doubt that some trades will be happening real soon. I had expected it to happen sooner but I think the Anaheim coaching change may have changed things up and delayed trades a few days, not because Ryan was no longer available to the Canes, but because he’s apparently no longer available to other teams. I think it changed the trade dynamics that had been developing.
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
Honey Badger's winning percentage is 0.00%
Yup, Muller now has 0 wins behind the Carolina bench. But that’s OK because now he’s hiring his friends to join him back there. Great move. Just goes to prove my point that the Honey Badger has to go! Bring back Maurice – at least he could win a few. And his interviews were more entertaining.
Also, bench Stewart for a few games – sticking up for Skinner like that was totally uncalled for and not the Hurricanes way! A disgrace to the Hurricanes uniform!
Honey Badger Muller?
Kinda has a nice ring. I got the joke.
What is the only letter in the Canadian alphabet, eh? Need a hint, eh?
Do you mean the nasty crazy ass Honey Badger the meanest animal on earth or the member of the ratel family found in Ethiopia?
I would love that Randall guy to ‘narrate’ a hockey game. ‘Ewww that big man just hocked a loogie on the bench" "that Ranger guy is lazy. Look at him lie down on the ice. Oh he’s badass blocking that shot. Oww! He got hit in the head. Ewwww! He’s bleeding!"
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
by Ned Butler on Dec 2, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hockey player don't care...
Oh gosh your honey badger commentary of hockey is hysterical! Should do a whole game! Funny!
Southern hockey ambassador at www.cardiaccane.com
How many people aren't the Honey Badger these days?
I know about Craig Smith and Tyrann Mathieu, and I’m sure there are several others. I’m still going Two-Face myself.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 2, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Kaberle dropped a glove last night. I guess that counts for an incremental increase in his physical play.
yeah, but he was trying to put it in his purse at the time
not sure that counts
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 2, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
We are still very early in the Muller era. He’s only had one full practice with the team. I think right now they are in the evaluation process. They have to start somewhere, so Muller has been pretty much keeping Mo’s lines so far. I expect to see some changes there sometime soon. The Rangers are an up-tempo, skilled team, a team that Canes teams from the past would have been able to skate with. The boys are going thru the same issue that happened when Lavi took over, they were not conditioned to play up-tempo hockey. As Muller imprints his style on the team they will get used to the pace, and the players who can’t hack it will be weeded out. I would expect some line changes, hopefully a player trade or two, maybe someone waived and sent down and possibly a player or two brought up from Charlotte, within a week or two. I really liked something Muller said about Stewart. I can’t remember if it was a pre-game comment or post game, but he said he feels it’s important to put players in a position where they can succeed. I think Kirk doesn’t want to come in and make changes just to look like he’s doing something, but will take stock and make some player decisions we’ll be happy with.
Derick Brassard’s agent just put Columbus’s GM/coach on blast for constantly healthy-scratching his client. I really wouldn’t mind acquiring him up if he came very cheap, maybe a 2nd or 3rd Round pick and a bottom-6 guy to make space.
Could be a Jussi-esque pickup. He has all the tools to be a solid #2 Playmaking Center.
While the Canes would have to have a “knock-the-socks-off” trade proposal for Ryan, I would go the exact opposite with Brassard. Offer a bottom 6 guy and a 3rd round pick. He could become a good 2nd line center or we could add him to our ever growing list of 3rd/4th liners.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
Great idea for the Canes to get Brassard cheap.
by curiouscanesfan on Dec 2, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
JR has said there is interest in Kabs from other teams. The only problem is his contract. It would be nice if they could dump him on someone and take some of their salary in return. As long as the returning player provided the least bit of improvement, it would be a deal worth making. The fact that JR to call him out on the radio like he did shows that he is over it. I think he’s trying, but just because he’s selling doesn’t mean someone is buying.
The only easy day was yesterday.
JR has said there is interest in Kabs from other teams.
I find that hard to believe, based on what he brings and what he costs.
same here, but if so, it's a pleasant surprise
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 2, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn’t he have to go through $125 waivers first? I believe an NHL team gets a chance to claim him first and if he clears then Carolina and Kaberle void the contract by mutual agreement.
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
Why would any player “run” and leave that guaranteed money on the table?
by efrancis on Dec 2, 2011 4:55 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
JR could trade him for a similar salary of a player who is horrible as well, but who’s contract is done at the end of the year.
I didn't know he was interested in Pavel Kubina
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 2, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
interest in Kabs but for the Contract?
So the phone call is like this:
“Hey, Bob, this is JR, how’s it goin’?”
“Pretty good, jimmy, better than for you I guess. Nice picking up Muller. He’ll be good.”
“Thanks. Look, I’m calling aboot a trade.”
“Oh yeah, I figured you were. What ya got?”
“Well, Kaberle, for one.”
“I’d be glad to take him. We got a place for him – in the minors. Not gonna pay him tho. Forget aboot it. Not in this organeyezation.”
“Okay, Bobby. Thanks.”
“See ya Jimmy.”
[hang up]
Next thing, JR says “well, at least one team has a place for him.”
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 2, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I cannot believe that more people do not see how overrated Joni is. He is out on the ice WAY to much and because of that is often lazy grabbing at guys instead of actually playing the puck. on the powerplay you only have to cover him for the pass because you know that unless the Sea Parts he will not shoot. And almost every game he has a bunch of turnovers in his own end. It seemed that our defense was no worse when Joni was on the sidelines. I say this because I think that if we trade Joni and Kabs we could probably get a someone who knows how to get the puck in the net. I have to admit I have not seen the allure of Joni since he arrived he is always jumping up with the puck but yet never seems to make good decisions with the puck that result in all that many points.
I am sure I will get skewered for this post.
Im not going to skewer you because I’m past worrying about what people think about Joni. We went through already this years ago. The dudes our best defenseman and the team suffers without him.
by hurricane9 on Dec 2, 2011 12:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Thanks. I wish there was a ‘Dead Horse’ icon-flag.
by drifterscape on Dec 2, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
i hate to continue to do this.
but i still seem to always see Kaberle out there losing battles on 1 or 2 goals Against each night.
its kind of like two seasons ago whenever the opponent would score, you could look around and see number 4 (ward) out there for another minus.
i know getting rid of kabs isnt solving all our problems. but it has to be done at this point no? even if it “cant”
"a bit of love"
ok i think im a bit behind on this topic. apparently JR threw him under the bus on radio?
"a bit of love"
When will JR be thrown under the bus as he put this team together? People have been clamoring for a good winger for Staal for how many years and yet he shops the scratch and dent department every year looking for that diamond in the rough. Then displays more wisdom in signing Kaberle to that contract. Way to go JR! We are watching your brilliance everyday.
PK, your cheap, short sighted view has caught up with you. You are now reaping what you have sown. Hope you are proud of what you have created. I could go on and on…………
This organization is a joke and as attendance falls, you can only say they have brought this on themselves.
by Canes Pucknut on Dec 2, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
JR deserves blame for the state of the team as illustrated by your post, as well as Sittlers posts here and in other threads. I am hesitant to throw full blame to PK, at least for his payroll limitations. JR could have made smarter roster decisions with the same money, again as a few have outlined here in Canes Country. If I was to really blame PK for anything it would be that by employing JR he is ultimately responsible for JR’s actions, especially since JR has run this team the same way for years. The Canes have had some great success for sure winning the Cup, but too many years have gone the other way and success was never built upon. PK brought NHL hockey to your hometown, and wants to keep it here by not going broke running the team. I can appreciate that. He should just have smarter folk around him. Less money = doing things better than the other guy.
People have been complaining about JR. Problem is that complaining is futile.
by hurricane9 on Dec 2, 2011 12:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Things are looking up if you turn them upside down
The Canes are now 29th in point percentage and Columbus is closing fast. Sportsclubstats puts chances of the Canes making the playoffs at 1.1% and falling.The fail-for-Nail campaign is looking great!
Should JR face facts and make trades only with next year in mind, or go all-out for the 8th playoff spot based on a 1.1% chance?
I have mixed feelings. I think Muller is going to improve things, but look at what the Canes have to do to get 72 points in their remaining 55 games. How likely is a 36 – 19 – 0 finish for this team? Or 32 – 11 – 8? It’s pretty challenging to rack up 1.3 standings points per game. Only 6 teams in the league have played that well for the 20+ games of this season. The Canes look nothing like those teams.
Realistically, it’s time to trade everybody who isn’t part of the long-term core for any prospect or pick that might improve the roster for next season. Having any shot at the playoffs this season required making the coaching change weeks ago.
Top 3 Pick
A top three pick is the story of this season; and the measuring stick for whether the season was a stepping stone for becoming a legitimate contending team. I am hoping Muller, however, will feel he now has license to revamp the forward lines and that Jim Rutherford will start jettisoning some players in order to bring up Dalpe and Boychuk. Call it what it is, a rebuilding year.
Yes we need a legit rebuild year! We gave a good core but it needs to be worked for 2-3 years from now. Last year was supposed to be it but we are a product of our own success. We had Skinner make an immediate impact and stellar goal-tending from Ward.
I know the fear is attendance will suffer and any ground gained from the cup year to our deep playoff run will be lost. I think seeing our team flounder will push more fans away then seeing our young guys play and hope of the future.
To counter my own comments a little, the management will also have to consider that playing young guys might not get people in the door. A few years ago I remember when we had a ton of injuries and half of the roster was River Rats I heard a lot of complaints about not seeing NHL hockey and people saying why would I want to go see the Raleigh River Rats. Lets face we love our Canes but its not a hot market and doesn’t have the support that the big market teams have.
A few years ago I remember when we had a ton of injuries and half of the roster was River Rats I heard a lot of complaints about not seeing NHL hockey and people saying why would I want to go see the Raleigh River Rats
Ironically those “Rats” were hungry young men who almost dragged the team into the playoffs.
Regarding a rebuild at this stage, I think it would be ideal. Not only because we could see what I just mentioned above, hungry young men playing hard, but because it would put everyone at ease. Just concede that the roster ain’t gonna get it done this year and let our happy new coach stay happy with a rebuild as his goal. Otherwise I predict that perpetual smile is gonna wear off Captain Kirks face trying to get this team into the playoffs.
Rebuild
Given the talent we do have: Staal, Skinner, Ruu, Jussi, Sutter, and the potnetial talent on the team in prospects: Dalpe, Bouychuk, Rask, Then you look at the defense with Pitkanen, Joslin, Dumoulin, Faulk, Murphy we have the potnetial to be very good nest year if we tank this year to pick a top three draft prospect.
We would only have to build an attitude and effort based team, let the Dalpe, Boychuk, Faulk, Joslins all play and develop with serious NHL time so we know what we’ve got. Make some daeline deals to get some missing parts and it’s only this year lost. Much like the Flyers had one bad year then bounced back…
Of course we would need Staal to recover his form at some stage as well…
Good Morning Folks...
I am sad the canwes lost but i have to agree that the rangers and thier chief thug Avery are playing as a team who does expect to win and run over anybody who gets in their way..just like the flyers and other teams in the west…they wear you down and out..Kabs did try but over all as JR said he didn’t come ready like Skinner and others did and have..if I had been Mo and seen that..I’d told kabs & his agenmt to go ands get fit or don’t bother ever dressing again..but hey..I’m not a coach am I ?? LOL…and you better beloeve that the Pens will be coming in like sharks who smell blood..as it seems the canes are the whipping boys of the east as they all but ignore the Islanders as the canes are still a threat as the canes have not rolled over and pl;ayed dead..and that is thanks to the likes of Skinner,Tlusty,Joslin Dwyer ..and a team with just that can never ever get to 500 let alone the playoffs.can they ? Change is need but aside from someone a player /winger for staal side..what else is there ?
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
Unfortunately for Muller, his first three games are/have been against three of the top four teams in our conference right now—who are also playing on all cylinders, with well established coaching, systems and talent….
…i.e. tough teams for us to play even without the baggage Mo left. Even if we played to potential it’s likely we would lose these three games.
If I was Muller…..when I took my timeout during the 2nd? 3rd? (I think it was the 2nd) I would have said….
“OK boys, you can’t beat these guys at the game of hockey, that’s apparent, but one day you will, I promise. So what I want you to do is go out and kick their asses. I want to see someone drop their gloves every faceoff for the rest of the game.”
Because we just aren’t tough enough to compete right now. I look at every other team in the NHL and they all have a roster full of injured players. Who has been injured on the Canes this season? Onesies, twosies, walking wounded. Strike that, I don’t even remember a twosie. Fighting sucks in the pit of your stomach and it’s hard to will yourself to throw down, especially if there is a good chance you are gonna get the crap beat out of you. But getting in a fight also has residual effects. I DID IT! I actually went out there and stood up for something no matter the outcome.
Plus, it might just open up playing time for our prospects.
Talent
Many who regularly follow this blog know I’m not a big fan of Luke DeCock’s columns on hockey. But I think he is bang on this morning that what the Canes now have to fix it the talent shortfall. Of course he gets much of this from a scathing assessment of the Canes talent from Scotty Bowman.
While Scotty no doubt knows a lot about assessing hockey talent I think he was unduly harsh in his thoughts on the Canes.He thought highly of Staal and Skinner’s talent level. That Ruutu was “ok” and that Ward was a solid goaltender. He lumped the entire D into a category of bargain basement and that the rest of the forwards were is essence border line NHLers.
Going beyond Staal, Skinner and Ruu, my assessment would be that Sutter has the potential to be very good but inexplicably over three seasons he has not added much strength to that gangly frame. There is lots to like in his game but to consistently win those one on one battles to get to places where you can score he needs to add at least 15 pounds of upper body strength. Then he can play a Jordan Staal type game. As much as we all like Jussi, the truth is that on almost all top teams he would be the 3rd line center or right wing and used on special teams.
Sad to say but beyond that all of our forwards do some things well but they are of the dime a dozen variety that populate the bottom 6 forwards in the NHL and some wouldn’t even crack the top teams. I can make a solid 4th line out of almost any of them but what are truly missing is that big, bruising forward line that almost every elite team now has that can wear you down in your own end with a their physicality.
I was worried about the D at the start of the year and then had some hope that as a unit they were OK. Now I’m back to the assessment that this D cannot win consistently. They don’t have the talent to make up for their shortcoming. Kabs has always been weak in his own end. It was just that he put up such strong offensive that this was forgiven, Now his offensive game seems gone and all we see is the guy that has 7 or 8 good shifts and then loses his coverage or a one on one battle and its in our net. Gleason the same but from a defensive perspective. He looks like he is trying but too often he is out of position, is too slow or caught flat footed. Seems that both are good for single handedly each costing us a goal a game. Allen can be a solid bottom pairing guy and on nights when he is really on and his knee isn’t bugging him you up his minutes. I still think Joni is an elite talent. Coaches just need to get it out of him. Harry has improved immensely but in truth on most top teams his a bottom pairing guy. Faulk is 19. Has loads of potential. But he shouldn’t be the guy that logs your top minutes if you have a true top 3 veteranD. McBain also has potential but his development seems to have hit a wall. Too often he panics in his own end and this season he is not getting his shot off. So the value he currently brings is minimal. But you never want to give up on a young D too soon. Joslin has some toughness. He looks to have some skill. But do any of you really see him cracking the roster on say a Pittsburg? He is a great depth guy at the moment but nothing more.
So back to what JR needed to add to this team in the offseason. He had plenty of young guys in the minors to fill some slots. So why go get 4 forwards at the hockey Walmart and a very expensive all offensive D with a track record of decline. Why spend so much on a 4th liner in LaRose. Instead take all those bucks and go get 2 quality forwards. Fleischmann comes to mind as an example. And get a solid shutdown D man because you already have a stable of offensive guys. Then you have a core of Staal, Skinner, Ruu, Sutter and Jussi plus those 2 additions ( 7 in total out of 12) and then you fill in the blanks for the final 5 slots. Dalpe should have been one. Boychuk probably another. Now all you need is your 4th line….. say Tlusty, Dwyer and Brent Sutter? There sure was another way ( a much better way) to build this team even with the money constraints.
This is not a team that is well engineered. Lots of bodies and many are OK. But they are just OK and that is a team that is designed to give you mediocre results. Sure they can win when the play their butts off. But ever an full season you are going to lose a lot of games where you outwork the other team but they win because when they get scoring chances or PPs they have a much higher likelihood of scoring just because of superior talent.
by sittler27 on Dec 2, 2011 10:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I saw so many odd man rushes last night from the Rangers. Not coming across the blue line, but materializing out of nowhere from the top of the circles down. I would be watching the Rangers keeping the puck to the outside, stretching out our D, and then in a blink, boom!! 3 on 2. 2 on 1. Someone should ask Tortirella (sp?) what he sees about us on film. Cuz he had it figured out last night.
by coastalcaniac on Dec 2, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Do you think the talent shortfall is fixable with midseason trades, or that it’s time to start looking to next season, getting as much as possible for players who don’t fit long-term plans?
by curiouscanesfan on Dec 2, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t have sittler’s experience on this, but I think it would be hard to address this mid season. I think this year is about getting something for expiring contracts, and really working our scouts for the Draft.
?
Bonafides?
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
by Caniac233 on Dec 2, 2011 5:54 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
it is a question
Only
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
by Caniac233 on Dec 2, 2011 5:56 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Luke DeCock's Article: The Talent Gap
I too found Luke’s article on point and accurate. The talent gap at forward in particular is hurting the Hurricanes. I had hoped Gleason would be back to his best game. He was at the start of the season; but seems to have fallen off. I really think the Kaberle factor is undermining the entire defensive effort. I am not nearly as discouraged about McBain. I think he needs some more coaching and has to become more intense with conditioning.
Muller is losing some games, but he is still playing essentially the same forward lines that Maurice used in losing efforts. Until the forward lines are revamped, and hopefully Dalpe and Boychuk called up; and until Kaberle is in the press box, there is no way to truly assess the team. Until then, the team will be under .500, I believe.
I rarely talk poorly of our players. I didn’t think Samsonov was a good fit for the team’s style but didn’t really harsh out on him.
Kaberle, however, is a whole different story. He is poison for the team and for the fans. Whereas there have been players who did not contribute to the team, Kaberle actually takes away from the team. JR really needs to find a way to remove him from the team.
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
I think Muller is looking at what is here, how ist has been used and is evaluating what he wants to keep and what he wants JR to bury. I am willing to be patient with him as we are in a world of hurt and quick fixes for our problems don’t exist.
We don’t have an owner willing to spend so a here we are. Thanks for another wasted season JR and PK!!
by Canes Pucknut on Dec 2, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
+1
He and McLean are just learning about who and what is going on around here. Best place to start is where Mo left it. I think we’ll see some changes against the Pen’s. What I don’t get is why Brindy, Lewis, or Barrasso haven’t told Muller that Skins and Fins has been the best line combo all year when together. Do they not see that, or did they tell Muller as much and he’s on his own course of discovery?
Oh Cheery McSunshine.......
I miss you tender words of encouragement…….your unbridled enthusiasm. Where are you with our shinning ray of hope…..your undeniable optimism. We need to hear you tell us that Ward is the bomb dot com. We are all begging to know that Sutter will turn us around becuase he is suuuuuuuper cute.
It’s like a funeral around here, these days. Guess it’s about time to bury our hopes for this year.
OK, touche. We have a 2% chance of making the playoffs. What do we have left?
1. Supporting Muller.
2. Supporting the rebuild.
3. Etc., cuz it’s all we got.
Question: Why does Montreal fill the house every single night? Because if they don’t support their team in the good times and bad, hockey teams have a habit of moving away. And we have an owner who has already done it once. Can you imagine the broken hearts of all the Hartford Cheerys?
I lived in NY in the early 90’s. NJ, NY, PHI, BUF, PIT, Islanders,……Hartford. There was a hockey game on TV every night of the week. And then, no more Hartford. They didn’t show Canes games up there.
John Forslund: “We want to welcome our new viewers from FS South in the Atlanta region.”
by coastalcaniac on Dec 2, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
FWIW, while I was being cheeky about it, I was serious that I do miss the optimistic posts. Those types are necessary to make this board fun.
The reason that the Bell Center will always be packed is because the Habs aren’t a hockey team, they are a deep rooted tradition. It isn’t because they have better or more knowledgeable fans. It isn’t because they are more tolerant of a bad product for the sake of their team. It is because they have a hundred years of identifying themselves with their team. It is a part of who they are. That doesn’t happen in 10 years or 20 years. Though it is a start.
Yeah, I know you were being cheeky. I wasn’t talking to you. I was talking to all the other folks carrying flaming torches and pitchforks marching down Edwards Mills road.
by coastalcaniac on Dec 2, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
You do make a valid point and my wife pointed it out to me last night. She said I used to be a lot of fun to go to games with. Now I’m pointing out mistakes and analysing the heck out of everything. She was poking at me with high fives on every one of our goals…. “come on sunshine, have some fun”…. she was even the one that suggested I go get a another beer!
For all of us in the stands, on our couches…. this is supposed to be “entertainment”. Too much intensity and life and death lately and I’m as guilty as anyone of that.
it is even harder, I imagine, on someone who has played the game at a high level.
The mistakes become even more glaring, I would guess.
We are all fans and see what we see. Whether you are a so called expert or new to the sport you need to be entertained. Frankly the Canes need to worry about the casual and new fan than you or me. We’ll likely go no matter what. But for those making the decision on where to spend hard earned bucks and they aren’t yet married to the sport, it had better be entertaining and want to make you come back.
The atmosphere at RBC and empty seats has really bothered me since it is not a good environment for the fans or team. But it has to start with the team to bring the excitement back.
I am neither expert or new. But my family is/are “fair weather” fans. I’m not going to games alone. I live 3 hours away. It’s an all day affair. I wish it was: get home from work, have a bite, drive 30 minutes, catch a game, home by 11:30, bed, work; vice, pull all the kids out of school early, etc….
My local paper in Jacksonville ALWAYS reports the Canes games. Not just a little blurb either, a 1/4 page article. So there’s a fan base here. I suspect some of those seats are STH not showing up, but quite a few are people like me.
My family, I love them dearly, but they’re suck Canes fans.
Know what’s funny though? They all have the Canes App on their iPhones and they knew about Mo getting fired before me and called me up to get on CC to see what’s up. Dammit.
by coastalcaniac on Dec 2, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
I know the feeling! I live in Richmond Va and havnt gone to a game in a while for the same reasons. So yes the seats arnt being filled by people like us! At this point I just watch it through GameCenterLive.
We only get Caps coverage here so I still go to the N&O and CC for my articles.
I think that’s a really good point sittler. I understand passion for your team. I know that the word “fan” comes from “fanatical”. I used to be one of those people who was in a funk for days after a bad loss. But recently life has taught me a little perspective. This game is so not life and death, not even close. It’s supposed to be fun to watch. If I let myself get bogged down by all of the mistakes they make and don’t take note of the good moments, then I’m not having fun. If I’m not having fun, then maybe I need to find something else to occupy my time.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
You’re right. In the end, it’s only a game. The problem is, we as fans want and need something to cheer for. It’s been said that the hardest job in sports is The Fan. I’m a police officer. For me, I come home and turn on the game so I can forget the crap I see from one day to the next. If not hockey, which I’ve never played, it’s basketball, which used to be my passion.
The problem for us as fans, whether the casual fan or the “I bleed red and black” fan, is that losing sucks. It’s frustrating, miserable, and contagious. It trickles down to every level of the sport from the management to the fanbase. On the contrary, winning is also contagious. It’s just a whole lot easier to lose than it is to win.
The only easy day was yesterday.
Fair enough, it is a two way street. The team needs to come out and play hard for fans to cheer. Nothing like a half-hearted effort to take the wind out of the building. I have to say though, while there have been a few, I haven’t seen too many of those games from the Hurricanes. Winning at home every once in a while would probably help too. ;)
But my point was more of this: maybe if instead of focusing on Player X sucking and us losing, we focused more on Player Z doing this really well and us improving in this aspect of the game, we’d all be a little bit happier as fans. I’d much rather be a happy fan base because they roll 6 or 7 wins off in a row, but that doesn’t seem likely right now. Like Muller said last night-baby steps. I had to make a conscious decision to work at appreciating those baby steps instead of tearing my hair out because of the mistakes. It’s slightly more fun that way and I won’t need a wig by the time I’m 30.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
I agree. I try to stay away from the player bashing, but I do find myself guilty from time to time.
The only easy day was yesterday.
Hey-we’re all guilty of it, myself included (AWard2.0 was a dark time for us all).
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
For all of us in the stands, on our couches…. this is supposed to be "entertainment".
This is why I prefer the Statler and Waldorf approach to games. Its always a good time when your expectations are so low.
I believe in strength. I believe in unity. And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, word and deed then so be it.
by Douchebag St John on Dec 2, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Not as low as my standards, but pretty low.
I believe in strength. I believe in unity. And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, word and deed then so be it.
by Douchebag St John on Dec 2, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
JR drummed that cheery disposition out of me with each of his signings this summer. There were a lot of “wtf” moments.
I’m always going to cheer for the guys on the team because I know that for the most part they give their all. But I feel for these guys because they know that they have to bring it each and every night at 100% just to be competitive. That’s a lot to ask. It sure is better to have that winning attitude swagger knowing that you don’t have to win each game just to stay in the hunt and that even on off nights you have enough talent to steal one.
Canes are in that position where it seems that every mistake is in the back of our net. Muller has got his work cut out just to loosen these guys up. In my experience coaching changes mid-season only work when you have a very talented under performing team like the Caps. For the Canes this is now heavy lifting and it will take roster changes as well as the coaching change.
This year really vindicates those of use that wanted to really rebuild last year instead of pushing for the bubble. Looks like we gambled and came up craps.
Much like you Sittler
I almost pulled my hair out when JR made such a big deal about LaRose…. After he signed Dwyer. I coul dhave let them both go. Both useful, but really, both easily replacemable, and both only 4th line on any other team….
Then Poni AND Stewart,, again two of the same, neither what we needed except in the size department.
But right now, I’m OK with Optimism. I’m taking the broader view—we’re a little short of talent, got that, but we have depth of “almost” talent. In a good system, we’ve had success with that. But we’re way to Mo’d up as a team. I also factor in Mullers first three opponents are some of the best teams in the east, and on a tear, so the chances of us winning even playing well were small.
So what’s left for me is a checklist of vices the coach can fix: Entertaining hockey, consistent effort, system better suited for the team, players reaching back and getting to their potential, analysis of our prospects and players for keepers, getting a good draft pick and retooling at the deadline or over the summer.
This season is lost. I’m totally accepting there is NO WAY this team can make the playoffs. So let’s make the most of it, stop expecting .66% winning hockey and look for competing against teams we chould beat, while playing as best we can against the rest so we set the foundation for next year, so we know whom to kep, and we give th prospects a chance—either sooner or at the latest the Dalpes/Boychuks/Bowmans/ come up and play every game with minutes to get their chance to learn the new system, coaches desires, and show if they will be keepers for next year.
I can support and get behind that while not getting frustrated with individual play… But I would also expect at some stage to see Kabs benched, Rosie demoted based on their play (not necessarily their effort, but their reults….) THAT would make me happy.
I feel like this post was directed at me. Not sure why exactly…
Ok I’ll give you Cheery McSunshine. Yes, we lost again. In fact, I had a hard time pulling the last time we won from my memory because it’s been that long. And that sucks. Out loud.
But-I think they’ve looked better the past two games than they did the two games before that. I’ve liked seeing small things that seem to be headed in the right direction. They hung around with a very good Rangers’ team for most of the game. There are positives in that. Staal is coming around. He had a couple of points last night, seems to be more focused on the whole game, rather than just scoring. I like seeing that.
Derek Joslin is another bright spot. I was not sold on him last year. At all. But he’s definitely rounding into a fairly solid d-man. I think he (and Faulk too actually) do better when paired with a veteran d-man not named Kaberle, but both of them seem stronger and better than the first time I saw them.
I like seeing Stewart stand up for Skinner. That hit was scary from my seats and Skinner taking so long to get up is not something I want to see. But Stewart came right in and stuck up for him. Would that have happened last week? I don’t know, but having it happen last night was good.
Jiri has also been much better than my original impression of him allowed. He, Sutter and Dwyer make a pretty stinking good combination in my opinion. They are forcing other teams to play defense and when they can’t do that, the opponent isn’t getting grade A chances on Cam.
Are these bright spots going to win us a Stanley Cup this year? Nope. But are there still moments and players that are enjoyable to watch as a fan? Yes there are. And as someone whose living doesn’t depend on whether this team makes the playoffs or picks first overall, I’m ok with that.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
You’re talking about the Captain promoting himself, aren’t you?
by coastalcaniac on Dec 2, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Really? So you just randomly picked Ward and Sutter to include in your post? Gosh wylde, I’m kind of disappointed in you. ;)
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
I’ll concede your tenancies contribute to the composite caricature that is cheery mcsunshine, but it was not aimed at you specifically. Also, like I said above, I do genuinely miss the enduring optimism of posters such as yourself, as of late. Too many Stinky and WStout types, and not enough CG and Jamie Kellner and Carolyn Christian types (though they are not the only people who make up that composite before I tick anyone off).
So I hope you take it as I intend all my posts to be taken, light-hearted and only meant for giggles and grins.
You need to get a twitter account if you don’t already have one. The Cheery McSunshine Consortium is more prevalent there.
Let's go Hartolina WhalerCanes!!!! I am a big fan of the Canes, but I still have some residual Brass Bonanza Blue and Green in me.
yeah the only cc folks I follow on there now are Carolyn, Brian, and Cory so I can see when new articles go up. I followed more folks, but I find that I get these half conversations where i don’t see the other side. If I can’t follow the whole thing then it just leaves me confused and frustrated. I mean it still happens with the folks I mentioned above, it’s no ones fault, but I live with it just so I can get updated when a new article is published.
Oh I know it was meant to be light-hearted. I was teasing you back. :)
And I have taken a major step back from posting here, partially for my own sanity and partially because life just got in the way.
And like Ned said, from where I sit, there’s more Cheery McSunshine on Twitter. But the half conversations can be frustrating…although you shouldn’t even see someone’s reply to another person if you don’t follow them both.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
It could be something I am doing wrong, truthfully
I use social media only slightly better than a 4 year old. And not even a tech savvy one at that.
LOL I’m not sure if this will make you feel better, but I made a very similar comment about Ovechkin’s Twitter feed a while back.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
I’m all roses and puppydog tails when it’s time for that.
Ain’t time for it. No mercy.
Where’s our trades?
by WStout on Dec 2, 2011 5:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Jiri has also been much better than my original impression of him allowed. He, Sutter and Dwyer make a pretty stinking good combination in my opinion.
To me this is the only line that works cohesively and feels comfortable together. They have speed and they cycle the puck in the offensive zone at least to keep possession for a while. Strong defensive tandom as well. Idealy Skinner needs to play with the Finns and Poni needs to play with Staal. If we were lucky enough to find a someone else to play with Staal and Poni this team would look totally different at least offensively.
by hotchipsnsalsa on Dec 2, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Totally agree. I like that line a lot and think it needs to remain intact even as other lines are shuffled around. I’m a big believer that if it ain’t broke, you shouldn’t fix it. And that line is certainly not broken.
IMO, Finns and Skinns needs to be reunited and I’m hoping that’s something Muller does in the near future.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
You can still follow my relentless positivity, unbridled enthusiasm, and witty banter about the players on twitter.
by Jamie Kellner on Dec 2, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I used to follow you on twitter. See my explanation above. Nothing personal, it was just frustrating for me only seeing part of the larger conversations occurring.
Why everyone should be on twitter:
RT @EhStew13: Ma$ons 1st Santa visit #lookfamiliar twitpic.com/7na6wt
by Jamie Kellner on Dec 2, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
rec’d because it almost is worthy of a frontpage fanshot… thoughts?
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 2, 2011 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Now that is something to smile about!
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting"..........holy cow.......what a ride!"
Patty Dwyer decided to share his son’s similar experience at the team’s kids Christmas party. And he didn’t even take 17 mins in PIM going after Boyle last night.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 2, 2011 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Allen and Gleason are slow. And a lot of these rushes came after we lost one on one battles in the neutral zone or their end.
Team is not dead in my opinion, but when you have played as many games as we have and are this far behind it is tough for any team, even if they have all the right pieces, to make the playoffs. But stranger things have happened.
For me I’m more looking for the type of moves and improvements that make for more exciting and well executed hockey and the hope that we are on the right track for the future.
What is exciting for me is that we have some very good prospects in Charlotte, in college and in juniors. We have some assets that even if we don’t move them now will get us some prospects or draft picks come March ( assuming we are not in the playoff hunt). It is a strong draft at the top end with some can’t miss guys, especially offensive forwards.
It may be another “wait until next year” type season but at least we are in a position of hope. I’m looking for JR to bounce back from a deadful year of both contract re-signings and free agents.
McKinnon/Yakupov/Skinner/Staal
Could be a solid core if we tanked for the next 2 years in the Pittsburgh mold (damn lockout year helped out too).
Yeah the lockout year really helped out the Pens! Could be a lockout next year! So by that rational we could potentially get 2 years top 1-3 picks with just 1 bad season.
Hmmm… should our mantra be Fail for Nail and McKinnon?
Actually, the city of Pittsburgh refusing to provide a new arena helped the pens out. They were handed Crosby on a silver platter to leverage a new arena.
I believe in strength. I believe in unity. And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, word and deed then so be it.
by Douchebag St John on Dec 2, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
If you believe that lottery was legit, I have a bridge I can sell you.
I believe in strength. I believe in unity. And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, word and deed then so be it.
by Douchebag St John on Dec 2, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Sweet! What type of bridge you got?
I have suspected that as well but i would hope the league wouldn’t play favorites. Its not all about conspiracy theory
The bridge is between Manhattan and Brooklyn. Beware though, it could be destroyed by unknown monsters.
It was not about playing favorites, it was about not having to move one of the second 6 from a great hockey market right after the lock out. If any other legit market had been in that kind of trouble, you can bet your bottom dollar #87 would have been there.
I believe in strength. I believe in unity. And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, word and deed then so be it.
by Douchebag St John on Dec 2, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
I’m OK with missing the playoffs, deadline trading one of Gleason or Allen for high second or low first round choices, and dealing anyone others of our bottom six pool of players (Stewart, Poni, LaRose, Dwyer, Tlusty,) to get more picks….
…then we take a top pick and wheel and deal prospects/acquired picks to move up or get trades for what we need…
…coming back with fresh raw, eager talent: Staal, Skinner, re-signed Ruutu, Dalpe, Top three drafted Rookie, and maybe a rask or boychuk to round out Jussi for two decent top six lines…
Hope springs eternal
Formula for Success; Take the Pain Now
I agree, but only to a point. I think the fundamentals of the team are fine with the exception of needing to get the more skilled, offensive forwards onto the team, and adding one more elite forward. Defensively, an elite, mean, fast, physical defenseman is needed. It’s really easy to over-react to the mess the Hurricanes are in now; but only Cole and Corvo left.
Muller strikes me as a great fit for the future Hurricanes. He’s taking small steps at the moment and trying to get the Hurricanes players settled in to his approach. For me, the lottery pick would be the grand slam prize for the organization. I think that result is doable. The Hurricanes are faltering and the teams below them have games in hand. http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm?type=lea#&navid=nav-stn-league
The disaster that is Kaberle has overshadowed some of the good work done by Rutherford in terms of building for the future. Stewart is really coming on strong; and the fact he fought last night is huge news for the Hurricanes. I am hoping Muller is changing the Hurricanes culture from viewing themselves, with some obvious exceptions, as a small, skilled team that eschews hard hitting into a rough and tumble, big, fast, aggressive team that comes out you in waves. There is room for one stay at home big defenseman who isn’t blazing © fast; so there has to be a change there.
I know Muller has to go slow on changing the forward lines; but that cannot happen soon enough for me. I pretty much look at the pre-game notes for the lines; and have a strong sense whether it’s another beatdown game or not.
Parise for Staal
NJ won’t be able to re-sign Zach. Time for a big statement…let’s blow this thing up and start over!
That would be a great trade! Devils need a top line centre to play with Kovalchuk. Zubrus, Henrique is looking really good, but he’s a rookie. Although Elias isn’t young anymore, they do have alot of depth at LW. Tedenby looks like he will be a decent player. I really like that trade.
Maybe they would take Kaberle too! (I just added that in for fun)
But then who is our center? We add one piece by subtracting another. And I know a lot of you think Sutter could be our 1st line center, but he is where he probably needs to be. He might become a 2nd line center.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
What I’d like to see given the current roster:
Tlusty – Staal – Poni
Skinner – Ruutu – Jokinen
Stewart – Sutter – LaRose
Nodl – Brent – Dwyer
Gleason – Allen
Pikanen – McBain
Faulk – Harrison
What I really would like to see with prospects in the mix:
Tlusty – Staal – Dalpe
Skinner – Ruutu – Jokinen
Stewart – Sutter – Boychuk
LaRose – Brent – Nodl
Pitkanen – McBain
Faulk – Harrison
Gleason/Allen – Joslin
~traded (Dwyer, Poni Gleason/Allen for something since they may be able to bring something back)
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
Goodness gracious, didn’t last night show what happens when you put Allen – Gleason together? It can get ugly pretty quick.
Harrumph
Oh, I saw the ugliness, lol. I’d prefer one of them be packaged with some folks to bring in a legit top 6 winger but I get the feeling we’ll have to ship out one of ours to get one in return unless PK actually spends some money – then we’re back to where we were.
No matter how you pair up the D with the roster we have as of right now – it’s bad and a borderline NHL group.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
Get what you are saying, but some thoughts.
What we need is true top 6 talent. Not guys that we hope are there. Sorry but I have not seen Tlusty show anything that says he is properly slotted as a 3rd line guy. I would however give Dalpe the shot to see if he truly is that elite player for the future.
I don’t see Skins and Fins working long term. Too small. Too easy to be shut down by top teams. It can work against some teams and at certain times of the season when teams back off the intensity. But as a steady diet…. I can think of too many teams that will shut them down.
Nodl is no different than Boychuk…. he will either cut it on a scoring line or not at the NHL level. No way he is a 4th line guy.
When I see the D, honestly I want to throw up in my mouth. This is not a D that you would ever see on top 6 team.
Sorry…. but I stick to what I said before. There is major re-tooling job needed to get us to a talent level that can win consistently.
The D is horrible but given the current roster, I don’t see how else to pair them up. I don’t know enough about Nodl to where he should be slotted. Unless a trade is coming down then I’m kinda baffled as to why we picked him up. There isn’t really a nice to way to put this team together the way roster is but I believe the Skins and Finns line have at least shown in the past they once they get going they can be a pretty productive line.
Of course, adding a legit top 6 winger would make a lot of things better but I’m not holding out much hope JR will get it done. Sad to say but I imagine he’ll end up bringing in a 3rd liner with the potential to be a 2nd liner. Pretty much all we have are people that we hope can be true top 6 talent at this point outside of 12, 53, 15 and maybe 36.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
Tlusty would be a damn fine 4th liner on many teams. I know JR kept selling him as recovering from injury, not given a chance in TO, etc, but he’s a 4th liner on a contender. If you want to build a contender then you have to measure up to the other contenders – raise your roster to the bar they have already set.
I thought Nodl looked better in his first game than he did last night. Last night he looked more like Boychuk, just not quite where he should be on the ice. I do think it had to be hard for him to get almost pulled off one plane, and on another, headed to a new team that just wacked their long standing coach the day before and replaced with a total stranger to the org. I think Nodl needs to get a shot in a slot the staff projects he may be able to succeed in and if not don’t waste a lot of time. I suspect he can play a high tempo game Muller likes and that is why they grabbed him.
Honestly, in the end I certainly do not envy the position Rutherford is in. Under our budget, it’s going to take some magic or a lot of time to get this team fixed.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
I’d rather trade LaRose and keep Dwyer.
by CanesFanFromLI on Dec 2, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, they’re interchangeable to me and either would be fine. I just had us keeping LaRose since he is a really good locker room guy and is a fan favorite. He makes a good bottom 6 energy guy – he just shouldn’t have any business playing the top 6.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
Although I could counter that by saying Dwyer is cheaper and a better PKer in my opinion.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
Kaberle
Have a heard a lot of folks suggest we need to trade Kaberle. So who wants an overpaid, aging, underperforming defenseman. its not like the other GMs don’t have scouts and can read and have their own eye for talent.
IMO only way we move him is to waive him, put him re-entry waivers and eat half his salary as part of a deal. This could be a VERY expensive mistake for a team that does not have deep pockets. ( So the question again is…. why the hell did you sign him JR!!??…. way too much risk)
We may well be stuck with him and then the only way to deal with that is to coach his game and conditioning back up. Look at what Dallas has done with Souray. Kabs has skills. He is not old. With him it is all mental and enjoying a Cup way too much and not coming to a new team ready to start over in top physical shape. Hard to get there on the fly. Some press box time and some off ice and extra skating may be the only way.
Logic says that if do make a deal before the Christmas trade break, it will likely have to be another D and then we are stuck with Kabs. Tough spot we are in with him.
I think waiving him is the only way to go at this point. This was perhaps JR’s worst mistake – dollar for dollar- as a GM. Or at least top 3. Either they pay 1/2 his contract and move on with future D-men, or nobody touches Kabs and he wakes up and gets hungry again in the AHL.
Someone mentioned the other day on this same subject that Europe would seeem to be the best place for Kaberle now. I don’t know how the salary issue would work there. But I doubt anyone would want him in the NHL.
ask anyone from Boston
He stunk it up for them. They won the cup and made it past Montreal earlier in the playoffs despite this guy. If he enjoyed the cup. He certainly celebrated with a few close friends and family members only. waive him.
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
by Caniac233 on Dec 3, 2011 9:18 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Ugh
I’m glad hockey fights had the complete Skinner hit/Stewart fight up this morning. I keep missing 98% of these games.
So glad to see Stew defending his mate. What a load of crap the intigator rule is, especially in view of the elbow to Skin’s skull. I keep reading reviews that Skinner had his head down, but in his entire motion up the ice his head is at the same level. Missed call.
Staal is finally coming out of his slump a bit. Does this mean we can rekindle the “slow-start-Staal” argument?
I’d like some gravy to go with the words I need to eat. I said at the beginning of the season that Kaberle would have a comeback year… I was wrong as wrong can be. His stats HAVE to be better than 26 0 5 5 -13. Maybe he’ll retire after this year and do the honorable thing.
Fight?
Geez linesman, let them go. Two big healthy boys….. it would have been a good one eh. Killjoys!
Wanted to slap the announcers…. what a load of crap. Skinner is not off balance… probably one of the strongest guys in the league on his skates. That was hitting a prone player to the head…. Poni and Allen get called for elbowing on that hit all the time. If Joslin hit reviewed then so should that one.
Watched Boyce all night. He only really went after our smaller D and forwards. I actually like the kid…. but he should be braver than that.
Hello......I'mmmmmm Back.......
Some of you old timers might remember me from the old site. I even kept the same avatar because it is SO COOL and I was there in 2006, but regardless….time to jump into the fray and be a larger part of the Caniac world again.
My frustration over the last couple of years is an understatement……many reasons and many have already taken a fall for it over those years. However, the franchise must move forward or die. I think JR is moving forward and in the right direction so far.
I will not call names, but JR will have to rid himself of under-performing folks, some D and some F. Regardless of when and how….I would hope he gets the BEST return he can for those assets he gives up or needs to shed. It would appear to me player-bashing would be counter-productive. Think of it this way…….if we say all the time that Player X cannot skate his way out of a bathtub of frozen water and continue to say that repeatedly it makes JR’s job of "selling" the player to another team maybe a bit harder? Maybe or maybe not. Granted those other teams aren’t dummies…….but then again maybe WC Fields is on to something. JR has to find that sucker who willing to bite. If he does, the problem with one particular underachiever is solved and we perhaps gets something besides a bag of pucks in return. I am convinced JR knows the problem and will fix it the best way he can. He threw the guy in front of the bus not necessarily under it just a couple of days ago. I am willing to wait for whenever it happens without further comment on that particular player. Why? you ask……because we need that 4+MM to make up the future team. I really don’t think the Canes can pay that amount for no meaningful play.
The future looks a lot better than it did a couple of weeks ago but it will take time. Improvement can be seen but like the title of this blog implies "baby steps" are required. From all accounts JR was at the table with Ryan over the last several days. So many times in the past he could not be at any table for many reasons. Its seems the green light has been given to find and acquire a "Ryan-like" player. We may have to go back to Roddie’s acquisition from the Flyers for a comparison if he pulls it off. That is an exceptional warm fuzzy if you think about it.
Anyway, that is my two-cents for now and I hope you got your money’s worth. Glad to be back.
Bottom of +- pile
Just noticed that Kaberle and Larose have joined Staal at the bottom of the +- rankings. They each have -13, Staal has -17. There is another group that has -14 but our boys appear determined to pass them. We could have the bottom 3 soon.
What is the only letter in the Canadian alphabet, eh? Need a hint, eh?
When Larose is in your top 6, you may have a bad team.
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
by Caniac233 on Dec 3, 2011 9:19 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I really can understand how a player like Kaberle seemed enticing. I really cannot understand the love potion that LaRose has given to the coaches that made them put him in the top six. It had virtually zero chance of success statistically; and was almost a guarantee that Maurice would get fired.
I do understand Muller’s sensitivity to needing the players to buy in and to be given a chance in the present lineup before he starts making radical changes. I think Muller’s experience as an NHL player is a tremendous asset for his coaching. Not every NHL player is suited to be a coach, but for those players who are natural coaches, having the gravitas of having played successfully is extremely helpful.
Great Quote By The Coach From Chip
“No one’s going to feel sorry for us, no one’s going to come like the cavalry,” Muller said. “It’s just us, so let’s plug away.”
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
The Quote
I would dare say this is worthy of being painting on the top door jam to replace that worn “….Guy in Front of You” quote, if that one is still there……..
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 2, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Beauty, eh.
Nice thing about Captain K is that he’s been there and seen it all. Came in as a high draft pick. Put up numbers. Played on winning and cup teams. And in Montreal. What a hockey fish bowl!! Leader. Played on some dogs. Got traded. Had a long career and worked his way down the lineup as his skills deteriorated with age. Coached college kids. Assistant in that toughest of places to play anywhere and had to coach up some fragile players. He’s seen and felt just about all of it. I think JR hit it out of the park when he hired him. Right guy for this team.
Re- read that…… ok I’m starting like I have a man crush on the guy. But truly, wouldn’t you want to lace em up and bust a gut for this guy?
I am certainly warming up to the guy…….looks like he has motivational inspirations on the fly. That will go very far.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 2, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
His interviews may not be as funny but the guy infuses you with confidence, which is something I can’t say about Maurice. After the loss last night Muller was still upbeat and inspiring and it even cooled off my rage that was boiling up into an angry comment. It was the complete opposite of Maurice’s mumbling stuff.
Joslin is awful. He was responsible for at least 2 goals. It doesn’t look like he is all that physical for his size and that goal he got was a fluke as he wasn’t even shooting it he was trying to make an awful pass and it deflected off of someone. We need to be either faster or more physical because something just isn’t working with the way the team is now.
Watched 1st 2 Periods on Slingbox
I watched the first two periods on Slingbox. I was surprised because based on the score I thought I’d see some really disgusting hockey. To the contrary, I liked most of what I saw. I was surprised at Cam Ward. He didn’t seem to be tracking the pucks very well on some of the goals. The Rangers look to me like the Canes of 2005-2006. They know they are going to win; and it’s just a matter of them figuring out how.
Maybe it felt worse at the game due to the anxiety. I saw Muller putting Stewart on at least one shift on the first line. Sad to say, but I think Staal is the issue. He’s so busy trying to get to his game that it stifles the first line. It’s very much time to get Skinner back with Ruutu and Jokinen.
Defensively, things will be much better once Kaberle is no longer on the ice. This team has lost something as a team; and is struggling not to panic when things go against them. It isn’t to say that the Hurricanes have all the talent they need; but they are trying. Once Muller feels he has license to organize the team the way he wants, things will improve I predict.
If Ward stops two of the shots, the tone would be very different. All in all, there is no reason for despair. The game was much better on video than I imagined. Then again, I think the Hurricanes would be very fortunate if they can finish 29th or 30th; so perhaps I am seeing things in a different light than some others here.
New to the board...
I’ve been a Canes fan since they moved here, but didn’t really become a “Caniac” until the past few years. I was born in Raleigh and am proud to have the Canes represent the Carolinas. I’ve also been an NCSU Wolfpack fan since I was a kid, too. I was even present at the brickyard for the after-party when State won the NCAA b-ball championship in 1983. It was a lot to take in at the age of 12.
The reason I referenced NCSU in a Canes thread is because I find their 2 organizations eerily similar in regards to the ups & downs that their respective fans have to endure. I guess that’s why they’re both considered “cardiac”… Cardiac Pack & Cardiac Canes. Could it be that this place is just cursed when it comes to sustainable sports domination? Is there something in the Raleigh air that has the power to create both an unstoppable athletic threat & a broken down machine within the same entity in the same week?
Where… no, WHO are the Canes that beat BOS on 10/12 & 10/18, CHI on 10/28, TB on 11/1, PIT on 11/12, TOR on 11/20, and PHI on 11/21?
What got into them those nights that they can’t seem to find again?
I know some of you like to run the numbers & make comparisons… so I ask. Has anyone compared our line-ups for those winning games to see if there’s an inkling of similarity between them?
I’d like to believe that we will again see those Canes that we witnessed in those wins. Sometimes it’s tough to be a Canes fan….. but at least we truly appreciate their success when it comes.
by Caniac - No Matter What! on Dec 2, 2011 4:21 PM EST reply actions
KABERLE!!!!
I was just reading on TSN about Mark Giordano’s injury. Looks like he’s going to be out a while…sounds like its pretty painful. A fan commented on the article “Two words for you…Tomas Kaberle.” He thinks Iginla will pick it up and they’ll go on a run.
I wish that fan was the GM.
Sounds like most fans commenting are hoping they blow things up there.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=381782
Can anyone explain what the deal for the pregame STH is tomorrow? Did the Canes cancel theirs?
by Kyle13 on Dec 2, 2011 5:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes. If you’re a season ticket holder, you should receive the following email:
UPDATE: Exclusive Full STH Pregame Skate
The Hurricanes coaching staff has determined that, in the best interest of the players, the team will not be participating in a pregame skate tomorrow morning; however, the Exclusive Full Season Ticket Holder Pregame Skate event will continue on schedule.
A very limited number of Hurricanes players will be on the ice for workouts and Chuck Kaiton and Mike Lange will be present for what will now be an extended Q&A session with fans in attendance during the team’s originally scheduled ice time. The Pittsburgh Penguins are still scheduled to hold their pregame skate during their time slot, offering fans in attendance their only chance to see an opposing team’s morning practice during the season. Other activities will continue as previously scheduled.
We’re looking forward to sharing 125 dozen donuts with you in the morning!
Thank you for your support!
Go ’Canes! P.J. Avetta
Manager of Sales & Client Services
Carolina Hurricanes
by Jamie Kellner on Dec 2, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
So why have we not waived Kabs yet or made a trade?
How long is the “eval” period?
I have the games for the past four years recorded. Do they need a copy?
by WStout on Dec 2, 2011 5:54 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Stout, you’ve been one of the most vocal Mo Must Go guys on this board. He’s gone. What’s left is the same group of players that, with a new coach, may find a way to play harder and better and win some games.
I don’t speak for anyone but myself, but PLEASE SHUT IT with constant stream of purulent negativity. Go root against someone else.
And “we” haven’t waived anyone or made a trade because “we” post on message boards and watch games on TV. How in God’s name can you have 4 years worth of games recorded and still hate this team so much?
by Gillimus on Dec 2, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Dunno...
I hate to agree with the troll, but Kaberle’s chance came and went long before we fired Paul Maurice.
But we gotta be patient, b/c JR has to work out a lucrative deal with somebody to take him off our hands.
Ready for the Canes to win the Cup again! :)
Kaberle
Nobody wants Kaberle at his contract price at this point in time. Rutherford has been trying to trade Kaberle virtually as soon as Kaberle came to camp big as a whale. The problem is Rutherford’s. He signed Kaberle in the face of a huge body of evidence that Kaberle was uninspired. It was one of the worst choices Jim Rutherford has made in years. On a low budget team like the Hurricanes that kind of high expense, low quality signing really cripples the season.
I, too, don’t find it helpful now that Maurice is gone for anybody to expect instant gratification. This team is lost at the moment; and Muller is trying to get it back on track for the short and long term. The players know what this failure means and they are trying to figure out how to win. They almost certainly realize for some of them, it’s too late.
You bring up a point I have been wondering about. What experience does Muller have being the head coach of a team in crisis? Analyzing strengths and weaknesses, formulating a solution, turning them around. In my old job, there was a team of us called “firemen” because we had experience going into an organization and getting it back on track. It was something of a specialty. We’d fix it, retrain staff, and then give it back to management to maintain. Put the puzzle back together.
Muller seems like a good coach. Albeit inexperienced as a head coach. Are we sure JR picked the right guy to turn this around? Wasn’t there anyone available who had experience turning a team around? I sure hope we don’t find that Muller is a great coach when he comes into an organization with all of the pieces to the puzzle already in place and his job is to fit them together. I think the Canes are missing pieces, or have some wrong pieces, or both, and Muller’s not gonna have a complete puzzle set for, potentially, years.
One thing we were cognizant of in my old job was making sure we didn’t get stuck by our own paradigms. Trying to fix the thing that is broken and not being successful only to find out later we needed to shift our beliefs instead of getting stuck trying to make the thing work within existing SOP, when what was really needed was a new SOP.
Can he work with what he has? Does he have enough intelligence and experience through 19 years in the NHL, 4 years as an assistant, to morph and have the Canes follow him?
Because I think the Kaberle thing is almost certainly a deal made based on JR’s paradigm, and he’s probably shaking his head now and wishing he had shifted his thought process before he made the deal. He probably wouldn’t have made it. I mean he’s all about character, and conducting background to ascertain good character, and coming out now and saying that Kaberle showed up fat, sure doesn’t sound like he followed his own rule about getting character guys.
One more example: Did JR’s public spat with Whitney years ago in any way influence how he handled the Cole trade? Which validated JR’s paradigm when Joni made the character move to stay here with a pay cut (or was it no raise?). Further reinforced by the Corvo debacle. Resulting in the Kaberle deal. While his good friend Mo preached a defensive-minded game. We called Cole Staal’s binky for a reason. If nothing else Cole motivated Staal. Staal respected him.
When maybe the right move was to jettison them all and pick up an elite wing man for Staal. And maybe another for Skinner. That would almost give us 4 full scoring lines. And have faith in Cam to make up for our defensive weaknesses. Which he’s doing right now with even less help than even the worse case scenario.
They all need to go on one of those executive “trust building” retreats and rethink things. Climb some ropes. Get out of the RBC Center and get some fresh air.
by coastalcaniac on Dec 3, 2011 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
I doubt Muller has had this kind of crisis situation as a coach. On the other hand, I think Muller’s the right guy. I don’t think the Whitney situation influenced Cole or Cole would have been traded. Not signing Cole was the intelligent move for the terms Montreal signed him. With Cole’s history of injury and with Ruutu needing to be re-signed, it was just too much money and too long.
I also think the Hurricanes need to think outside the box as far as forwards. This season is a lost cause for the playoffs absent a miracle and one can’t build a team hoping for a hockey miracle. Dalpe, Rask, the 2012 draft choice, and Boychuk are the future of the team. The idea is to jettison the least-talented players at their respective positions and add talent. Depending on the top six forward, it’s fine to pick one up if it is in exchange for Kaberle, for example.
The smart move is to bring up Dalpe and Boychuk and let Muller see if they prove themselves for him in the top six. The next smart move is to unload nice guys who are not talented enough at their position to be on a top six NHL team and who are replaceable based on the talent the Hurricanes have.
The way out is painful, but it offers Muller the chance to build his own team the way he wants it to play. In my view, here’s how it should work:
1. Play Kaberle until he gets enough TOI to see if in condition he can be kept; entice a team to take him at the trade deadline and jettison his overweight, irresponsible self as soon as feasible;
2. Trade LaRose to create space on the team;
3. Trade Gleason at the deadline; he or Allen are the team’s two best shutdown defensemen, but one needs to go to open a spot for a faster guy, such as Dumoulin. I suppose Harrison could be traded, but with his rate of improvement, he could be an excellent defenseman who just happened to the rare late bloomer as a defenseman.
4. If Muller wants big, mean guys on the third and fourth line, trade Dwyer. I wouldn’t because he’s fast, agile, and is almost never out of position. With his speed, if Muller can help Dwyer develop soft hands and some elusiveness, he’d be dynamic. Still, Dwyer’s small size is a disadvantage if the team wants to go big and mean.
5. Ponikarovsky is a player I’d keep, but I wouldn’t think it was a disaster to trade him. I would prefer the Hurricanes have surgery and not a rebuild.
6. Bring up Dalpe and Boychuk and throw them in the top six for the rest of the season. It’s a great chance to have them show their skills and learn the game from Muller.
7. Hope to finish 29th or 30th and take either Yakupov or Grigorenko.
In a year or two that gives the Hurricanes lines that could include:
Forwards:
Dalpe/Staal/Yakupov
Skinner/Rask/Ruutu
Ponikarovsky or Stewart/Sutter/Jokinen
Nodl/Brent/Stewart or Brett Sutter or Dwyer
Defense:
Allen/Faulk
Pitkanen/Murphy
McBain/Joslin/Dumoulin
JR and PK aren’t stupid – they know the chances of us making the playoffs are incredibly small. I doubt they think the playoffs will happen this year, but they aren’t going to come out and say “yeah, we are going to suck up the rest of the year and miss the playoffs again.” Rather, they are going to say “we still can make the playoffs if we go on a run.”
In addition, look at Muller’s contract. He’s here for this year and 3 years. He’s had experience with AHL players and college players. We have tons of these players. He favors a more aggressive and offense oriented system in which the defense is accountable for the offense and the offense is just as accountable for the defense. Actually, this reminds me of the Ranger’s system. The players that we have fit this system. Plug in one or two more top 6 wingers, remove some of the baggage on the back end, and the team can be a playoff contender perennially.
No matter how bad the team looks right now (and they look bad), the talent is there, the work ethic is there, the character is there. We are just missing a few pieces. We are missing confidence and a system. Give Muller the rest of the season to implement the system that fits our players, allow JR to make some moves to fill out the roster (that hopefully aren’t dumb like the Kaberle signing), give the AHL players some time this season, get a high draft pick, and next year we are looking much better.
Honestly, I think if Muller had started the season with this team, and the team played his system from the start, we would be in a completely different situation right now. He’s the right coach and I don’t think he was told by JR that he has to get this team in the playoffs this year. He was probably told that the team is low on talent and confidence and he should be preparing them for next season.
JR and PK aren’t stupid, but they haven’t faced facts about the implications of choosing to be a cap-floor team. You will either become excellent at drafting AND RAPIDLY DEVELOPING talent or you won’t be competitive. Since you’re not going to sign free agents like true first-line right wings, the whole organization must be geared to getting young talent to perform at a high level before it gets too expensive or becomes waiver eligible. JR and PK have hoped they can talk about being competitive and having young talent but have mostly stuck with their life-long model of trying to succeed with a few legit stars, a lot of budget retreads and the rare smash-hit draftee. Did it kill PM to play any young forward not born NHL-ready more than 6 minutes a game in the NHL in his first several YEARS as a professional, or do JR and PK feel the same way? They seem more interested in scanning the waiver wire for any alternative to the Canes’ own young talent and then in late season trying to rent enough verteran talent to have a shot at 8th place.
We now find out whether JR and PK have been blowing smoke about thinking they have NHL talent in the system. Will they be willing to put their top prospects to the test for a reasonable period, meaning something like 15 minutes TOI for most of the rest of this season in appropriate roles? If they don’t do that now or it turns out they’ve failed at drafting and developing NHL-caliber talent, the Canes will be reliably mediocre as long as JR and PK make it a policy to stay on the cap floor. That has big consequences for fan interest and the viability of an NHL franchise in North Carolina. How many fans are going to stay on board with the strategy of being cheap and hoping a Chad LaRose in the top 6 and plus waiver pickups and late-season rentals will work a miracle—a shot at the 8th playoff spot once every three years? There are only so many fans in this area who will pay a lot of money to see live NHL hockey if the local team is lousy most of the time.
We’re going to find out whether Muller can get more out of the talent the Canes have, but also whether JR and PK are capable of operating in a manner that gives a cap-floor team any hope of success. It isn’t just the new coach and the players who are on trial.
by curiouscanesfan on Dec 3, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I endorse this opinion for the most part.
Years of hoping our kids and castoffs can win the 8th seed while veterans we wouldn’t pay go on to glory is getting frustrating.
But how much money should I expect PK to accept losing ?
It’s a chicken-or-the-egg dilemma. Slash payroll and hope for an 8th seed and maybe make a buck. Or have a red-ink payroll and hope to make it back on a deep Playoff run.
Pk got burnt in ‘09-10. I’m hoping we can try the bigger payroll option again soon. Otherwise….
Maybe a different opinion
I am not sure your global assertions are entirely correct. I fully agree that both PK and JR are not stupid. In fact, PK has been the single owner for several years and likely making up the many short-falls or certainly some of them. There have been quite a few short-fall years. However, just because you spend near the floor does not mean any team is bad, just look at the Panthers as an example. What I do remember is during the 2006 year at the beginning the Canes were just above the floor but when that year turned positive, rentals were purchased. PK and JR do know when to pull the trigger. In fact, I think JR becoming a minority owner will make him work even harder, although I can also see it making him more conservative since some of his money is on the line now. I certainly want JR to continue to scan the waiver wire for talent better than what we have slotted that fits within the scheme and pull the trigger when appropriate.
As far as the young folks it does not matter what Mo did or did not do…..he is gone and beating a dead horse just make no sense. Let the man go. However, Muller answered you today…….a “clean slate” and first up is the vets to prove their worth. If they fail then bring up the troops waiting in the wings on the team or down with the Checkers. I am willing to wait to see how that plays out. I agree with the coach, lets give everyone a chance to show what they can do for him. At this point that is not too much to ask.
I clearly agree with you that fan interest is a wild card. As an example, fans sitting in a pair of seats costing $6,000 just off center ice on the lower level has to be given as high a level of entertainment as the franchise can muster. For STH or for that matter every ticket holder (and TV viewer) deserves the best show possible. Having been to a significant number of games I expected wins and effort. However, if there was a lost but the effort was there it took the sting out of losing because the “Boys Did Try”. With those games you continue the support because they still earned it.
I would suggest you add one other group to the ones who are “on trial”. The Fans. I am not talking about being a “Dumb Freddy” going along and forking out cash whether it is deserved or not. Rather I am suggesting that fans continue to understand that if they turn their backs, the franchise goes away. Fans responsibility will be to support the team as best they can and provide honest feedback to the team when things are not to their satisfaction. I bet you they read this blogging web site. So far, I believe this franchise clearly understands the fans genuine and legitimate unrest and are making as much effort as can be to correct past mistakes and move this franchise forward in a positive manner. However, I will also say that if this franchise demonstrates insanely illogical or draconian behavior then I would have to reconsider my support.
I like the steps so far and eagerly wait for the needed steps ahead.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 3, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Started the game strong. Then just fell apart. Cam Ward has to step it up. The Ryan McDonagh goal was horrible. No NHL goalie should have given up that goal, it was a clean shot. Cam Ward is just shaky right now. Some games he stands on his head and then the next he gives up a goal like the Mathias goal to cost the canes the gameTuesday night.
Some Good News; Victor Rask
For those fans getting discouraged, here’s some good news. Tonight Rask had two goals in a 3 to 2 win by Calgary over Spokane in overtime. The best news was the second goal by Rask was an unbelievably sweet backhand in overtime to win the game. It followed a Skinner-like shift to maintain control of the puck. I’d say help is on the way for the Hurricanes.
Really can’t wait to see him in a Canes sweater. Seems to have a tremendous work ethic and attitude with the skill to match.
by Kyle13 on Dec 2, 2011 11:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Rask’s time in the WHL has been a tremendous help to his game. I’ve watched most of the Hitmen games. He is much, much more confident; and his skating is much more explosive. Rask is the real deal.
You think he could make the team next year? A top 6 of Staal, Skinner, Ruutu(if re-signed), Jokinen, Rask, and Yakupov would be potentially devastating for other teams on a nightly basis.
by jbcanesfan26 on Dec 2, 2011 11:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Hehehe..I know..I know
i was happy for Rask & sad for the Chiefs !!
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
ok ok folks enough doom & gloom here !!
we fans still have 55 games to cheer and shout about …so have some “Faith & Hope” here…I know they should have "jelled’ by now…but we have a new set of coaches,we fans need to give trhe team time to “adjust”…so come on now…Lets Go canes !! Let’s go Canes !! Lets Go Canes !!
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
Keep the faith! Having hockey to watch is enough to cheer and shout!
Unrelenting Optimism! ☺
by Positive Plus on Dec 3, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
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