JUST WHAT DID YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN: A FLAWED PLAN THAT YIELDED A PREDICTABLE RESULT
by abramsdoug on Dec 23, 2011 7:43 AM EST
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JUST WHAT DID YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN: A FLAWED PLAN THAT YIELDED A PREDICTABLE RESULT
As the Hurricanes now are in contention with for the lottery pick, the 2011-2012 season can be summarized as "Just what did you expect to happen" when (1) the owner scrimps on salary, (2) the General Manager does not either re-sign Cole as the first line Right Wing or sign a replacement, (3) when Kaberle is signed, and (4) where both LaRose and Dwyer are re-signed rather than creating a roster spot for Dalpe, Boychuk, Bowman, or Nash, and (4) when Maurice continued to over-slot LaRose in the top six and further weakened the team by splitting up Skinner/Jokinen/Ruutu. Staal's slump was also predictable given his perfectionist, highly competitive personality, and the lack of upper tier, compatible support on his line.
The problem with flawed plans with NHL teams is that they yield predictable and very unhappy results. If one had run a failure analysis on the plan as proposed, the almost certain conclusion was that this plan would fail and fail in a grandiose fashion. What perhaps was less predictable was that the team would be uncharacteristically splintered and that it would not gell at all. It's one of the rare Hurricanes teams where the sum of the team was less than the total of all its parts.
The team is reminiscent of the 2008-2009 team in that regard; but the 2008-2009 was undermined by the addition of aging retreads who were trying to hang on to their NHL careers when their bodies and will to win had faltered. The obvious danger in bringing back players over thirty-five with histories of injuries is that ultimately every NHL player has a time where skills slack off and their mind cannot will them to sustain the battle.
Most troublesome about the team is what has been called its "fragility." The 2011-2012 Hurricanes have run into wall after wall in the third period. It's been an ongoing issue for the Hurricanes since 2008-2009 and obviously transcends Maurice. We continue to see the propensity of the 2011-2012 Hurricanes to dissemble under the strain of tight games; and especially so in the third period, even under Muller. Given the fact the problem of being overly fragile continues, the solution unfortunately means the team's leadership needs to be revamped. Good leaders on athletic teams are the ones who step up their game when the game is on the line. With Skinner out with a concussion, the leadership on the team has not been strong enough to carry the Hurricanes to victory in close games.
Jim Rutherford references this lack of leadership in his characteristically direct but gentile manner by saying on quite a number of occasions that the 2011-2012 Hurricanes lack players who are willing to win at all costs. That statement perhaps understates the issue. This team has found ways to lose when victories were in hand. The same mistakes continue game after game. The energy level falls off following blown defensive coverages. Forwards cheat to the offensive end and fail to back check with authority. Pucks which could and should have been placed deep into the offensive zone instead are thrown blindly across the ice or backwards. Defensive zone coverages are lost when the puck is behind Ward's net. In other words very basic hockey concepts are not being followed far too often.
The good news is that in almost every game if one had the cosmic eraser and could erase two, three, or four plays, the Hurricanes would be somewhere between seventh and tenth in the Eastern Conference. There is a systemic problem, but the systemic problem is the bone-headed play at inopportune times.
Sadly, the Hurricanes require significant surgery to the roster. None of the players individually are wretched or so far below the NHL curve that they need to be banished to the AHL. Kaberle, the disaster on ice, is gone; and he was the one player who was so significantly below NHL caliber in his play, not his talent level, that he managed to drag down the entire team. On the other hand, the Hurricanes are in the 28th spot in the entire NHL for a number of reasons. The team has a flawed construction at present which has to be fixed and fixed now.
Jim Rutherford is at a crossroads. He can either rework the team significantly by trading some fan and team favorites or he can jettison some new faces. Analytically, the new faces cannot be the cause of fragility in Hurricanes teams on which they did not play. Similarly, in order to change leadership on a team, some of the team leaders have to be unloaded. There is only so much room for leaders on an NHL team.
I believe Jim Rutherford should weigh the return in young prospects or draft picks for the UFAs as the first priority. The second priority should be to create roster spots for younger, more skilled, more talented, and hopefully hungrier players. The message has to be if the team is losing badly, we will make significant changes; so if you want to stay on the Hurricanes team, you need to contribute to a winning team. As such, I believe Jim Rutherford should trade Tim Gleason and Chad LaRose. Gleason has been outstanding, but is coming off one bad year due to injury and an uneven performance this season. He is an excellent leader and role model. He is also an UFA. He should command at the trade deadline a nice return. Chad LaRose is a team leader. He is 185 lbs of heart and desire. He is on his way to a 20 goal season. His plus/minus statistics are again disappointing. He is also a player whose role is difficult to determine. He is really not an elite scorer, and as his plus/minus statistics demonstrate, he is not an elite defender. His size is a detriment on a checking line; but more importantly, his lack of positional awareness at times is an issue in creating scoring chances against the Hurricanes. LaRose is definitely NHL caliber. On the other hand the three years in which he has played a more prominent role on the team than previously, the Hurricanes have performed poorly and have been fragile. His trade opens a roster spot for a more skilled player.
Ponikarovsky and Allen are UFAs. Ponikarovsky can be a twenty goal scorer if used correctly; but lacks the explosiveness to be a top six player unless he is paired with two other linemates with exceptional speed and passing skills. The Hurricanes desperately need size, which Ponikarovsky brings. I suspect Ponikarovsky will be traded at the trade deadline; but he is a player Muller can work with to make him an important part of the team. Allen, I think, has been outstanding; and has provided the bite and physicality the Hurricanes needed. If Allen could be traded as a rental, much as Corvo was, it would be ideal. Allen is an UFA and with the crowded condition at defense, odds seem to favor saying Jim Rutherford will trade Allen at the trade deadline.
Ruutu is the cream of the crop of the Hurricanes UFAs. Rumors are abounding that Ruutu will be traded. I really hope Jim Rutherford will resist the temptation to trade Ruutu. If people think losing Cole was a mistake, then losing Ruutu would be catastrophic. Without Ruutu, the Hurricanes will be one of the softest set of forwards in the NHL. Stewart is also a player the Hurricanes seem to be positioning to trade. I find the treatment of Stewart to be somewhat mysterious. Stewart is fast, has excellent vision on the ice for making centering passes, compared to his minutes on the ice he scores exceptionally well, and he is 6'3" and 230 lbs. What is there not to like? I have read and hear discussions that Stewart was not in Hurricanes fit condition when he arrived. Even if true, Stewart has too much potential and upper limit to trade for a low return.
Dwyer would be on my list of possible trade candidates simply because the Hurricanes need to get bigger and more skilled. Dwyer has exceptional speed, seldom is out of position, and has an excellent hockey mind in general. He is not ideal as a third line checking forward, but as a fourth line energy forward who can play all three forward positions he is excellent. I know the Hurricanes organization really likes how Dwyer plays, so unless Jim Rutherford is really cleaning house, I predict Dwyer will stay. On the other hand, given the fact the Hurricanes have Dalpe, Boychuk, Bowman, Nash, Rask, and the 2012 draft pick waiting in the wings, and given the need to increase the skill level of the team in general, Dwyer would find himself being traded.
To me it was painfully obvious that the Hurricanes were two top six forwards shy of being a good team. When Kaberle came into training camp overweight and uninspired, and with the absence of a Cole replacement, there was little to do other than wait for the stark reality to play itself out on the ice. At least this disaster of a year occurred with a very deep 2012 draft class. The hiring of Muller brings a new era to the Hurricanes. I hope Jim Rutherford will take advantage of the opportunity and remodel the team to play the kind of up tempo, physical, North/South game Muller has said he wants. To do so, Muller needs the horses to get the job done. He needs stallions to race. Some perfectly serviceable plow horses are going to need to be sent out to pasture.
POST SCRIPT:
To look at LaRose's consistent range of play here are the statistics for the past four years. These statistics are not intended to prove any one particular point.
Categories are :
Games, goals, assists, points, plus/minus, Penalties in minutes, power play goals, short handed goals, game winning goals, shots, and shooting percentage.
35 R Chad LaRose 9 10 19 -17 24 2 1 2 99 9.1 2011-2012
59 R Chad LaRose 82 16 15 31 -21 59 2 1 0 176 9.1 2010-2011
59 R Chad LaRose 56 11 17 28 -2 24 0 1 0 138 8.0 2009-2010
59 R Chad LaRose 81 19 12 31 6 35 0 2 4 171 11.1 2008-2009
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Not a pretty picture is it.
While you are right that we need two 2 top talent wingers, I can’t help think what the addition of just one would have made to the team.
It isn’t just our minds that are boggled by the wingers that Staal has been saddled with. On what other team in the NHL would you slot your 1st line with the type of talent that Staal has seen on his right wing? And at times left wing hasn’t seen much better. The point that I think is often is lost is that LaRose is getting his chances and goals because other teams do not respect him and are willing to let him be the shooter while double teaming Staal. Sure Rosey is putting up some numbers but consider how many times he has missed where Staal would have buried it in similar circumstances. With a true top 6 right winger that winger would have more goals than LaRose but more importantly Staal would have double his current tally. And then this tends to build where now Staal is frustrated and pressing.
Now think about what the team would have looked like if we had only done two things. First, avoided signing Kaberle and get a top tier right wing for Staal. So just for fun lets assume that was Fleischmann. My guess is that he would have 15 goals by now and Staal and would have an equal number. Not having Kabs would have saved at least 5 goals against just where he made a blatant soft and mindless play. So tally that up and we are at least 15 goals to the positive. Now think about all the one goal games we have lost. I think we could easily have 12 to 14 more points more now and that would mean some Eastern teams we played would have less and we are right in the playoff hunt.
Would that have made us a great team. Hardly. But surely there wouldn’t be the doom and gloom that now permeates Canes Land. And there is a ripple affect though out the lineup. With a stable top line we would have seen a consistent 2nd line. The 3rd line of Sutter, Tlusty and Dwyer has been fine all year. And a 4th line of Poni Brent and Stewart/LaRose should have been able to see minutes and PK.
It has always been interesting to me that sometimes it is the one bold decision that you don’t make that can have a tremendous impact. But this wasn’t rocket science from to get go. To me the single glaring hole in this line up during the summer was a right wing for Staal after Cole’s departure. If I had been GM I would have focused on that first and then seen what dollars I had left over….. especially knowing that I had a stable of young talent in Charlotte that I could slot into my 3rd and 4th lines where needed. Sutter, Bowman, Boychuk, Nash, Dalpe could all have occupied up two spots if needed. I mentioned earlier that there were two key things we could have done. The 2nd is that if you don’t sign Poni, Stewart and LaRose you have over $4mil to get a top notch shut down D. And by the way the signing of a Flieschmann type winger would have been done with the dollars saved on not signing Kabs so our overall payroll is right where it is now but with a much better engineered team.
Hindsight is indeed 20/20 but this JRs full time gig and he has been around long enough to formulate a plan that addresses his needs in order of priority. Instead he got excited about the sales going on at the hockey WalMart and filled his basket with cheap items. He would have been better to buy two thoughtful high end gifts for this team at the hockey Nordstroms. In the end we fans understand and appreciate quality. The Walmart players are now on the re-gift list.
Two Top Six Forwards
I also had the thought in writing up my observations that all it took was one right wing for Staal’s line and then nurturing Dalpe, Boychuk, or Bowman as the second left wing. With Rask coming along quite well for Calgary in the WHL, and with what appears to be a top five pick in the draft, the Hurricanes can add talent there. The same dynamic as sittler27 suggests can occur this season as easily as last season. Combine the funds available by the Kaberle/Spacek trade by not re-signing Spacek. Trade LaRose and use the $1.9 million salary toward a top six forward. Trade Ponikarovsky and save the $1.2 million to add toward a top six forward. There is money available to sign Parise, even at a premium, for example.
As long as the lessons are learned from this season’s fiasco, the team long term will benefit. A top three or top five foward pick changes this team geometrically. Skinner with another elite talent and Staal with linemates who are synergistic with him put the Hurricanes into another class of team. Hopefully, Jim Rutherford will decide the risk of re-treads is too great to take again.
Skinner with another elite talent and Staal with linemates who are synergistic with him put the Hurricanes into another class of team.
There is another question in itself. How long will it be until Skinner returns? Will he be the same type of player; play the same type of game? Is he going to go through what Crosby is and get more concussions after taking a few hits? Are we going to be able to rely on Skinner to play 70+ games a season at top form?
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
by PackPride17 on Dec 23, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I think saying that Rosey misses opportunities where “Staal would bury it” is a bit overstated. As seen on numerous occasions, Staal can’t hit water even if he’s in a boat……or can’t hit the broad side of a barn. There is a reason our $8MIL man isn’t one of our shoot out guys. His power is near the net when he can scoop rebounds and garbage into the net. Yet, he is shying away from the net. I think that hit he took last year (and was out for a game or so) affected his game.
I agree 1000% that Chad LaRose is over-slotted. But put the onus where it belongs…..on the GM and coaches. What’s Chad supposed to do, tell the coach “No, I’m not going on the top lines?” Give me a freaking break. And we don’t need a Tomas Fleischmann type player, has he played a full season ever? He’s always hurt. He has scored >20 goals 1×...and on a top WAS line. Hell, even LaRose could score w/ that talent on his line. We need a Richards/Carter type player; more of a power fwd than finesse.
Harrumph
LaRose and Missed Opportunities
I would say the problem is that LaRose misses golden, sweet scoring opportunities that a top six forward has to bury to have a successful team. It’s absolutely true that LaRose does not control which line he plays on; but the dilemma is simple. LaRose is talented enough to play in the top six on a successful NHL team. His salary of $1.9 million is too high for the Hurricanes to afford him if he is slotted for the fourth line. He is no better, and in my mind is not as good as, other choices for the third line. LaRose is a luxury item. He is a delightful, hard working, loyal guy with all the intangibles. What he lacks is talent. Unfortunately, for the Hurricanes organization given the fact the Hurricanes salary budget is one of the lowest in the NHL, LaRose’s best use, as a fourth line energy guy who kills penalties, LaRose’s salary cannot be justified for the role he should be serving. It’s not a condemnation of LaRose. It is probably more a combination of observation and if anything a criticism of Karmanos for not being able to put together a business plan that has substantially more money available for salary.
The problem, however, is that LaRose does have a high salary for his best role on the team. LaRose is then overslotted and he consistently bogs down the top nine with his lack of a complete skill set and lack of a refined hockey mind. It’s not his fault he’s overslotted; but it is a huge issue if the Hurricanes organization wants to assemble a consistent top six team; or even a competitive team for the new conference.
LaRose and Missed Opportunities (TYPO FIXED)
I would say the problem is that LaRose misses golden, sweet scoring opportunities that a top six forward has to bury to have a successful team. It’s absolutely true that LaRose does not control which line he plays on; but the dilemma is simple. LaRose is not talented enough to play in the top six on a successful NHL team. His salary of $1.9 million is too high for the Hurricanes to afford him if he is slotted for the fourth line. He is no better, and in my mind is not as good as, other choices for the third line. LaRose is a luxury item. He is a delightful, hard working, loyal guy with all the intangibles. What he lacks is talent. Unfortunately, for the Hurricanes organization given the fact the Hurricanes salary budget is one of the lowest in the NHL, LaRose’s best use, as a fourth line energy guy who kills penalties, LaRose’s salary cannot be justified for the role he should be serving. It’s not a condemnation of LaRose. It is probably more a combination of observation and if anything a criticism of Karmanos for not being able to put together a business plan that has substantially more money available for salary.
The problem, however, is that LaRose does have a high salary for his best role on the team. LaRose is then overslotted and he consistently bogs down the top nine with his lack of a complete skill set and lack of a refined hockey mind. It’s not his fault he’s overslotted; but it is a huge issue if the Hurricanes organization wants to assemble a consistent top six team; or even a competitive team for the new conference.
Everyone has missed golden, sweet opportunities this year. Staal has had plenty of breakaways, hell even a penalty shot, and has missed them all. Everyone is struggling and gripping the proverbial stick a bit too much. When was the last time Jussi scored a shoot out goal? Last year. He’s like 0 for 20. LaRose had stood in front of the net and taken the abuse and scored goals this year. Staal has NOT stood in front of the net and hasn’t scored goals this year.
Is LaRose a luxury item at $1.9mil? Yes, but he isn’t paying himself. Someone gave him that salary. I think he’s worth a smidge over a mil and was shocked at that contract. But I was also shocked w/ the final BrindAmour contract as well. The one aspect of LaRose’s game I’m most disappointed with is his defensive coverage.
Harrumph
You don’t think the coaches play LaRose on a higher line because he’s paid more, surely. Especially with a new coaching staff, they’re going to play people where they have the best chance to succeed, regardless of how much they’re paid. It isn’t like how much you’re paid sets a rank and players have to be slotted according to their rank.
So LaRose may cost more than he’s worth, but that doesn’t prevent the coaches from playing him where he best fits. If they put him on the first line it’s because they think that’s best for the team, regardless of salary.
Playing Lines and Salary
It is very difficult to take a player with a high salary and consistently play them on a lower line. Occasionally a player is so fantastic it’s impossible not to play him; but all in all, contract pricing is important. More to the point, Rutherford typically does not pay his fourth line players $1.9 million a season. So you can look at LaRose’s salary and see either he needs to be a qualified top six player (which he isn’t) or he needs to be traded so the $1.9 million can be used more effectively.
For salary cap teams, it isn’t as critical to have such a firm grip on where a player fits and his salary. On the Hurricanes it’s the only chance the Hurricanes have to field a competitive team. The Hurricanes lost Brett Carson because they wanted or needed to save around $200,000.00. If the Hurricanes pay LaRose $1.9 million to play on the fourth line and kill penalties, what does that say to Tim Brent?
The point is, he may be overpaid, but to the coaches (not JR) this does not matter. Coaches take what they’ve got and get the best out of it. If they play him on the first line or the fourth it should have NOTHING to do with what he’s paid. Any coach who plays guys according to their salaries is either dominated by a damnfool GM, or is a damnfool himself.
So if coaches play him on the first line, they must think that is (or could become) the best place for him in the current team. You don’t think so, I don’t think so, but we’re not “there”.
Players being overpaid or underpaid is just as common in hockey as in other major sports. I have no idea what that says to Tim Brent or anyone else, because I have no idea how much players think or worry about how much others are paid.
I generally agree but there is a rule of thumb all survivors know……“Don’t make your boss look bad”. I am sure if Muller moved high paid players to lower lines other than the “slotted” line he is being paid that Muller would inform JR of this and why. JR is astute enough to let the coach BE THE COACH but I think the lines of communication flow both ways.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 30, 2011 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
Staal: 2 goals, check the lines
Staal clearly had been in an incredibly deep funk. It went beyond a slump. On the other hand, once Staal had two fast, tall, skilled players on his line, he was back to being the Eric Staal I had been used to seeing. Dalpe in particular has natural scoring ability and soft hands to go along with his speed. Tlusty is a much better hockey player than he gets credit for, but he is still recovering from his time in Toronto. Tlusty needs to assert himself more on the ice and worry less about making mistakes.
So yes, there was a splash as a rock hit the ocean. It came at a great time.
Always darkest just before the dawn.
Or is it just too many players that have played below reasonable expectations? Or stars that haven’t starred? Or just untimely injuries? Or was it a coach who began the season without intention to use the pre-season plan for the season? Or was it the constant use of square pegs in round holes? Or 3rd liners on the 1st line and potential 1st liners on the 4th? Or special teams that were especially bad? Or 4 on 4 play that can neither defend nor score?
Or was it the perfect plan gone perfectly? Top 3 pick nearly assured. Every player on the trade table. Lots of buyers,few sellers going into the trade deadline. Time for rookies to develop. Cap room galore. New coach, new attitude with real optimism just around the corner. Or am I giving management too much credit?
Ideal team?
Of the players we now have, and counting players in Charlotte, who would be the best 4th liners? Some people would say Dwyer and LaRose, lots of energy, fast, kill penalties consistently. With Brent they would be a 4th line you could play quite a few minutes.
So why trade them? Especially as they’re not likely to bring a big return. Keep guys you can find “ideal” spots for, move the rest if necessary, bring up AHL guys or trade for guys who might fill the spots you have open. We have real good spots for Dwyer and LaRose. And if you can’t trade guys who don’t fit, sit them and let the prospects find out whether they fit.
I’m not real interested in might-have-beens. We aren’t going to get a new GM, however good or bad a job we think he has done. Fix the problem, not the blame.
5 UFAs
Poni, Ruutu, Spacek, Allen, Gleason……It would not surprise me if they are all gone. Hopefully Ruutu and Allen would be a rental situation as both have been serviceable with the ’Canes and the Skins and Finns line seems to have a future.
Dwyer and Larose are going no where for separate reasons. Dwyer is cheap and earns his keep as a penalty killer and part of a checking line. Larose is a prototypical fourth liner and an energy guy. Trading these two for a 4th or 5th round pick adds nothing to your team and doesn’t make sense.
Budget minded teams rarely succeed in today’s NHL unless you strike gold with draft picks. With that said, management needs to find Staal a running mate, keep the Skins and Finns line together, and find some defense please! Ryan Suter or Dennis Wideman maybe?
In Kirk we Trust
Like Doug & Sittler said/implied
something needs to be done. many here know and understand what needs to be done..now why it hasn’t been we, the fan base don’t know or understand why things continue to be as they are. Will we the fan base who put our butts in the seats put up with this much longer ? I like others hope that we can keep #15 but the others that are UFA’s will go but what will we get in return ? and that is and remains the mystery we can’t figure out…yet…keep in check Doug..as you are thinking and saying what many think and would love to say if we were alone in the same room with JR & PK…have a good day folks…waiting to hear from incoming family members…TTYL !!
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
Not that much different
As has been observed before, what’s the difference in personnel between this team and the one that played quite well late last season? Cole, Corvo gone, and we weren’t playing young players from Charlotte much. We added Poni and Stewart and Brent. So why has this team been so much worse? Forslund wasn’t kidding when he called Cole “the ignition switch”, I guess.
We didn’t make the playoffs last season, so I wouldn’t say they played quite well. But the team last season was much better, and yes, it is probably due to Cole.
What was the number of GWGs that Cole had last season? I seem to recall multiple games where the team played flat, similar to this season, and Cole came out at the end of the game and knocked one home. That happened in almost every Atlanta game.
If we still had Cole and if Maurice had never started the season, I think we would have been fighting for a playoff spot.
With Skinner out with a concussion, the leadership on the team has not been strong enough to carry the Hurricanes to victory in close games.
Skinner is a great player, but your vision of him is not reality. When he was healthy, he wasn’t leading this team to victories either. This whole team is flawed. The culture of the organization needs to change. A major remake of this team would be in the best interest. I really believe half of the current roster should not be back next season.
I believe Jim Rutherford should weigh the return in young prospects or draft picks for the UFAs as the first priority.
I know you love prospects, but they are not going to get us out of this hole. We need to leave a few roster spots open for them to develop at the NHL level, but we need to go out and bring in some ready NHL talent. Our current prospects are obviously not the answer to what ails us. Some of them can help, but this team needs more.
IMO JR made a huge mistake this offseason in resigning both LaRose & Dwyer. He should have kept one and let the other go. He also failed to address the 2 most critical needs of the franchise; a 1st line winger and a defensive defenseman. If you go to the trash can for gifts, you’re most likely to end up with garbage. It’s time for PK & JR to put some real money out there for a quality player and stop hoping for a miracle.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
The major question
There’s a major philosophical question here, in the end: how do you build a team? What part comes from the draft (including developing prospects well, as Detroit has done), what part comes from free agency, what part comes from trades?
We can’t afford big-time free agents, generally. We’ve done poorly in development because most of our good but not stupendous draft picks are stuck in Charlotte. And trades (in my opinion) rarely build a team.
So what’s wrong with our development? Coach Mo was a problem, but there’s more to it than that.
Someone once said that all plans are flawed the very minute they are unveiled because the many variables within a plan change in ways you cannot predict.
Although I don’t buy off on this entirely, if everything had gone according to the PLAN created last year and into the summer as envisioned by JR we probable would not be having these conversations. It is also possible that the plan can exceed expectations, 2006 and 2009 might be classified as such by some.
JR’s plan for the future now that he knows what has happened is to significantly restructure the team. He built it with Mo in mind, but now he has to do that with Curt in mind and that is a pretty tall order. Two different systems. I agree that the team needs a significant rebuild. I expect the team next year to look drastically different than it does right now.
Here are the core players I think JR will build the rest of the team around, meaning everyone else (UFA, RFA, picks and prospects both) can be packaged in deals to help him surround these core player who are not to be traded.
Staal, Ward, Sutter, Skinner, Murphy, Bowman, Faulk, and Pitkanen. Everyone else JR listens to offers or packages them up to make a deal he wants. I could argue for a few others to be added to this list but JR needs the most flexibility he can get for all the deals he clearly needs.
He is going to be a very busy man.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 23, 2011 11:22 AM EST reply actions
Dalpe
From the comments I’ve heard throughout the organization about Dalpe, I’d be truly shocked if he were traded. Similarly, given what I am hearing about Rask, I would be surprised if Rask were traded. Boychuk and Bowman used to be on that list where I’d be shocked if they were traded. I think Jim Rutherford would still prefer to keep them, but they likely would not be a deal breaker. Dalpe and Rask appear to be deal breakers.
With respect to McBain, my guess is he could be had; but that the cost now would be quite significant. Up until the start of this season, McBain was viewed by the Hurricanes organization as one of its budding stars. I think he still is. Young players hit bad patches. If the Hurricanes trade every young player because he hit a bad patch, there would be nobody in the organization at all.
McBain has been brilliant at moments. Murphy makes his future a little questionable, but really on a rebuilding team I’d say keep McBain and jettison Pitkanen and his higher salary first. Also, no one is ever going to mistake Joni for a clutch performer, or a real #1 defenseman.
McBain is having a relatively bad season compared to last year. He can be a very good puck-moving defenseman. However, Pitkanen is also a puck-moving defenseman who defends very well. He was looking great early on this year until he got hurt. Interestingly, our defensive effort began to really suffer about the exact same time as Pitkanen was hurt. In my opinion we have already have a really good top pair defenseman in Pitkanen that we are paying well under the market. If we got ride of him and actually got that “real #1 defenseman” I would suspect we would have to pay over $5+MM to perhaps $7MM. I would rather keep him and seek that first line winger for the top line.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 23, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see any situation in which keeping McBain over Pitkanen would benefit this team. Unless we are trying to get a lottery pick for the next three seasons.
McBain is getting pushed out by Murphy, Joslin, and Faulk. Unless he picks up his game, he is going to be shipped off in my opinion. He’s had half a season, a full season, and this season, and he isn’t showing anything that is promising. He looked fantastic that half season, but then last season, his play dropped off and he became the defensive liability that he still is. He’s shown flashes of offensive talent, but he is our worst defender on the team. He’s had chances. He’s had coaching. He’s been given powerplay time. He’s been given penalty killing time. He hasn’t shown anything that shows me that he deserves a spot over Joslin, who is more defensively responsible and tougher, or Faulk, who is better offensively, defensively, and is tougher, and has shown me nothing that suggests that his potential exceeds the potential of Murphy, who is better offensively.
Honest Assessment of Prospects
Everybody, myself included, wants to see what some of our prospects can do in this ‘lost’ season. We should have ample opportunity, but what level are they really at?
Boychuk – He was a top 15 pick in 2008. He has had some opportunities in the NHL; playing 69 total games with 7 goals and 18 total points. He’s basically a PPG player in the AHL, but its been said that he has difficulty against bigger opponents. He is small and gets knocked around a lot, but he has playmaking abilities. Is he a future top 6 player? Where does he fit on the Canes squad? Would he be more valuable to the Canes as a trading chip?
Dalpe – He was a 2nd round pick that some believed might go in the late 1st round. He seems to be the highest rated forward prospect we have. He’s only seen limited time in the NHL and hasn’t really done much with it. He’s a little below a PPG player in the AHL. His calling card is his scoring ability with his wrist shot. He’s got decent size and is pretty mobile. Can he make the next step and be a top 6 player for the Canes? How long will it take him to get adjusted to the NHL game? Can he be responsible enough defensively to play on an NHL 3rd line while he is rounding out his NHL game?
Bowman – He was a 3rd round selection that was a pretty impressive scorer in juniors. While he has some decent size, he hasn’t really been the scorer envisioned at the AHL or NHL level yet. He’s only got 38 NHL games under his belt, but he has only recorded 5 total points (4 of those in 2 games). In the AHL, he is just about a 0.5 PPG; not really bad, but not really good. He has talent, but where he is really going to end up? Can he be more than an NHL 3rd/4th liner? What can be done to get his scoring going?
Nash – He has a 1st round pick in 2007, but went the college route. He was a PPG player at Cornell, but is below 0.5 PPG at the AHL level. While he is probably considered more of a defensive center, he needs to be better against AHL competition if he wants to be a true NHL player. He’s a -8 this season for a Checkers team that is currently in 1st place in their division. Is he more than a 4th line center in the NHL? Is there still more development for him or is he pretty much reached his ceiling?
These are just 4 of our forward prospects, but what is your assessment? I would be eager to know what others true assessments are of these prospects. Can any of these guys REALLY help our top 6 or are they just going to be added to our endless number of NHL 3rd/4th liners?
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
Vrbata
Watching him Wednesday, reminded me that the transition from prospect to NHL talent is not always straight line ala Skinner, but often a process that takes time ala Vrbata. Our prospects need top line time to develop. I applaud Muller for putting Nash and Bowman on the first line in a tie in late game situations. What may have at lest partially led to a loss may also lead to their growth into top 6 talent.
All of the above comments to me have some merit. My feelings are in line with what abrams stated in his opening discourse. The one thing I would add though is this. This team is suffering from the failure to carry out any sort of plan to at least maintain it at a competitive level. As much as I hate to say it, I am starting to believe that the crux of the problem starts with the failure to understand the value of players and to properly assess player talent. My point is based upon:
1. Look at the former Canes on other teams: Justin Williams, Ray Whitney, Eric Cole, Radim Vrbata, Ian White, Patrick Eaves, for example. All are performing at a high level. Williams, Whitney, Cole and Vrbata all are on a pace to exceed 20 goals this year. Ian White is a top 2 defenseman with the Red Wings and 3rd in the league amongst defensemen in plus/minus. Eaves scores 10 -12 goals a year on Detroit’s 4th line and Babcock has spoken very highly of him. Who did we replace these players with?
It’s obvious to me we undervalued these players.
2. Look at the players who played here into retirement: Hedican, Brindamoor, Wesley, Francis for example. Who did we replace them with? Skinner, that’s it. It’s obvious to me that we really did not accurately forecast what was needed to replace the loss of this kind of talent.
3. We did not understand the value of having having a couple of seasoned veterans with winning pedigrees and leadership qualities on the team when you are going to rebuild with draft picks and young players. We have had no such player this year until Spacek arrived. Kaberle sure did not fill the bill. We had Cole, who last year organized and conducted the pre-season training camp and who mentored Skinner all year. He was the prototype seasoned veteran with winning credentials. Hell, he couldn’t even get an “A” on his uniform here.
4. When selecting players for the “C” and “A” we did not select leaders such as those I described above. We selected Staal, Sutter, and Gleason. Where is that leader in the Francis/Brindamoor mold? Cole was one.
5. We don’t slot players correctly. Larose may be an exceptional 3rd or 4th line player. It is evident to virtually every fan that he is not a 1st or 2nd line player. Since he has been “promoted” to that level he is a cumulative -38. That’s a -38 while scoring 15 goals a year virtually all coming when even handed.
6. This last point may be true or not, I’m not sure. We have heard from management about the wonderful young talent we have drafted or obtained. Why are there not more of them showing up on the NHL roster? Have we overestimated their potential? Are they all Keith Aucoins (40 goal scorer every year in AHL, never a factor in NHL)?
In summary, I really think “abrams” in his opening was making the same point as I have as well as his pointing out other factors.
You could add Corvo and Seidenberg to that list of ex-Canes. Boston is doing more than OK with them.
JR/PK under-valued Siedenberg and wouldn’t/couldn’t pay him. Corvo we replaced with Kaberle who was replaced with Spacek but only after we hit the iceberg.
There have been rumors that Corvo demanded a trade because Cole departed. So if JR signs Cole does the entire Kaberle fiasco not happen ?
by drifterscape on Dec 23, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
It was publicly reported that Corvo’s agent asked for the trade. I am not sure if Corvo confirmed or his agent confirmed that it was the Cole leaving that was the reason. I do remember the scuttlebutt said that was the case. I actually think something else might have been going on that is still private.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 23, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
He said he was traded because he didn’t see himself having a future with the team after his contract expired, which was completely true.
Which may have had more to do with Pitkanen re-signing than Cole leaving.
twitter @jbk_ltd
by Jamie Kellner on Dec 24, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
We were spoiled with Brind’amor, who was an exceptional leader and an excellent player. Staal simply was the wrong guy to follow him.
Staal was the only guy at that time that naturally fit the need for the Captain. The last year and a half of Brind’amor’s career he was just a shadow of himself as a player. That was painful to watch sometimes. It became Staal’s team over that period of time and the organization just recognized it. That was then, today is different and I for one will not judge a player for just 3 months of work over his 9th playing year now. He is still only 27 years old! Part if not a good chunk of Staal’s issues might come from things that are not in his control. No time to quite on him now in my opinion.
Now saying all of that……I do have some concerns that Staal’s issues might be better solved with a fresh start. He has a full no-trade clause so whatever decision happens he will be a party. I hope that does not happen because a true first line winger may be just what the doctor ordered for a Staal remedy.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 23, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
At the time there were a lot of people on this site calling for Gleason to be named Captain.
How would that look now ?
by drifterscape on Dec 23, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Wrong……the very year he put up 100 points in the regular season and another 28 points in the playoffs in 2005-2006 was the year he became Brind’amor’s heir. Look on his sweater, there is a “C” and players on this team are saluting that “C”. Until the players turn a deaf ear to their Captain that C on the sweater will remain regardless of what we think.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 24, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I have never heard anyone associated with the Hurricanes organization – players, coaches, staff, media – say or even imply a negative word about Eric Staal’s capabilities as a captain. For that matter, I’ve never heard a negative word from his peers in the NHL. Never. In fact the just opposite, every comment about his talent, character, or leadership has been glowing.
The only negativity I’ve ever heard has come strictly from the fan faction.
twitter @jbk_ltd
by Jamie Kellner on Dec 24, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I certainly agree. There are many trees for the fans to bark up at but Staal’s being Captain of this team is not even a sapling on my small tree farm.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 24, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Someone find some iota of evidence that Staal is a good captain. I can give you the evidence that he is not…
First of all, he plays a selfish game, and lets his emotions take him out of the play a frequently. I’ve never seen a hockey player get so pissed, with no benefit, as often as Staal does. Secondly, he is not a vocal leader who sets the tone for the team. I understand that there are various approaches to leadership, but whatever Staal’s is, it doesnt work. Finally, he is an inconsistent player himself, so I dont think he fits in the “lead by example” category like Brindamour.
Doug rightly pointed out that this team lacks identity and character, and has for a couple of years. That was partly Maurice’s fault. It is also partly Staal’s.
I am a Staal fan and I am not sure if he is the best captain for this team or not. But really, we are not the one’s in the locker room. Management could have made a mistake, but obviously they saw or see something that would make them think Staal is a good captain.
And one example of Staal doing a good job as captain was as captain of the All-Star team last season. I really thought that he did a fantastic job as “host” for Raleigh and the Hurricanes.
"We've got to risk implosion. We may explode into the biggest fireball this part of the galaxy has seen, but we've got to take that one in a million chance."
-- Captain Kirk in Star Trek 'The Naked Time'
by PackPride17 on Dec 27, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I have to disagree with your assessment on several fronts.
First off, Staal speaks more in the dressing room than Rod ever did. Rod is a friend and I regard him highly but don’t ever assume that he was big on words. Rod lead by example. He was (is) simply a beast. I was rehabbing after surgery at the same time as Roddy was rehabbing his ACL tear in 2008. He amazed even the PTs with how he went at the rehab. Honestly he is no fun to work out with… the man is simply not human. But to assume he was this great communicator and man of words would be totally wrong. Eric is actually more so.
Second you regard Staal as selfish…. what do you base that on. He has been a shooter his entire career. That is his game. That is what the coaches want him to do. In fact he gets criticized for not shooting even more. Rod played 1484 regular season games. Mostly as a 2nd line center. He had 452 goals and 732 assists. He was far more a puck distributor than shooter and that was his game. In Juniors I had a couple of years where I scored over 50 goals. A lot of that had to do with having two monster wings who could out battle everyone. My job was to finish. I guess that made me selfish. My last year I had a wing who is now a hall of fame winger. My job was to get him the puck. He scored 62 goals. And I had 78 assists that year. I guess in your books that would make me a saint and him selfish. Not at all….. we were both just doing our jobs and we were ( and still are) great buds.
Did the team lack character during their prolonged run towards a playoff spot last year? I say they had both an identity and a showed character and Staal was providing plenty of leadership. The players certainly don’t echo your feelings. There was no happier dressing room than after the win over Toronto because they knew Eric had shook a monkey off his back. Henry Staal has said that Eric always had that body language on the ice.It is not him sulking or pissed but it is that he feels he is letting the team down. Contrary to your take he is not all about the goals and glory …. he wants to do it for his guys. Is his body language something that frankly I wish he would change. Yes. But not for the reasons you think. It is really hard tough when you see your captain try his best and fall short and see how it impacts him. That has an affect on the team, especially the young guys. You want to try to pick him up and that often gets you off your own game. I think he will get better at this with time.
So lets not anoint Rod with sainthood. And lets not demonize Eric. They are each unique players who played very different styles and roles. I don’t think either is the very best captain material nor do I think either are poor captains. On their respective teams I think they were the best choices available. Surely anyone that is advocating Timmy doesn’t know him well. He can be very brooding and moody. I think the added pressure would eat him up. Lastly this whole “captain” issue is often overrated by the fans. There are many teams where the most vocal leaders are veterans who do not wear a C or an A. Guys like Ray and Cole used to be very vocal leaders on the Canes. It differs from team to team but usually there is an unwritten hierarchy that emerges and often it has nothing to do with coach assigned letters.
by sittler27 on Dec 31, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well said…………
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 31, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
I totally agree ,and what’s funny is Cam Ward hardly never gets any blame for his poor play this year even though the team has played poorly in front of Ward he has let in some stinkers on his own…A good example was that wrap around by Kadri vs the Leafs early in the 2nd period ,also Ward has always had a tendency to let in goals early in the game or early in the starting period ,as it seems it takes him awhile to get focused early in the game or periods.
And no, none of our young talent are Keith Aucoin perpetual AHL all-stars (except maybe Samsone). Most of them arent that good.
Well….some might not be great but yet the Checkers are now 1st place in the Division with a 17-11-2 record. Of the entire AHL Western Conference (15 teams) they rank 5th overall in points earned. Someone down there has to be playing well against other NHL prospects. Cannot be just Samsone alone.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 23, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, the Checkers are a great team, standout in net. The offense has come a lot from players, like Samsone, who will never be mistaken for real NHL players. Our better prospects, like Nash, Bowman, Boychuck, and Dalpe have been modest contributors at best.
There is a likelihood that forwards Nash, Bowman and Dalpe will be part of the Canes roster next year. Most seem to think the progress this year will put them on the Big Club next year. If Dalpe does not make it that might be because of his mental behavior not because of his talent. The jury is still out on Boychuk (correct spelling) . There are Checkers defensemen lead by Murphy who will likely push for a spot on the big club as well. Their complete game has been recognized including by the coach JD. It is a great group that is coming along. Your original comment about most of them “aren’t that good” is just not accurate.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 24, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Dude, before you decide to start scolding my misspellings, at least go look at the roster of the Checkers. Murphy, who you rightly identify as our best defenseman not in Raleigh, plays in the OHL, for Kitchener.
I hope that someone amongst Dalpe, BoychuK, Bowman, Nash, etc. show something, but I seriously doubt any one of them will be anything more than third liners in the NHL. That is OK, we need third line players, but CLT is not going to provide the top six offense or top pairing D we need.
Its tough to know. Dalpe will either make it as a top 6 or likely not at all. His game is speed, finesse, shooting…. he has been a top 6 forward on every team he’s ever been on. That’s his game. If he can’t translate that to top 6 at the NHL level then I doubt he’ll stick.
Boychuk pretty much the same. He doesn’t have Dalpe’s size and has shown inconsistency. There is something missing with him. I’m leaning towards him not making it.
Bowman can skate, likes to hit and he has a wicked wrist shot. He can still emerge as a top 6 but his defensive game is good enough for him to stick as a 3rd line guy… say with Sutter.
Nash looks to me like a natural 4th line center. He is good on faceoffs and has a solid hockey IQ. Easy to see him replace Brent. With time maybe
he will show more.
The coaches really like Brent Sutter’s game. He is smart, great positionally. Tough for his size. He can play wing or center. Easy to see him as a steady 4th line wing like Kirk Maltby.
Interesting guy is Chris Terry. Great character. Put up some big offensive numbers in Juniors. Always seems to eventually rise to the next level. If he can add some muscle and a step of quickness to go with his work ethic and hockey smarts he could eventually make it to the NHL.
What is disappointing in Charlotte is that no D have emerged on this year’s squad that appear NHL ready. Looks like all our hopes are in Juniors and College where we have some good ones. Lets also not forget that we have some blue chip forward prospects. Rask, Sutter ( 6’5"…. skilled and tough) and Hoffmann. And two great goalie prospects.
All in all not the best system of prospects but in my opinion at the fringe of top third amongst NHL teams.
Does anyoe think this year’s team has been influenced by the likely end of the current union contract set to end this year? Could JR be trying to set himself up to be a buyer this summer?
With half the teams in the league bumping up against the salary Cap (and 8 currently over it), I doubt they will vote to do anything drastic that puts teams in a position of must-sell.
If they lower the Cap, I’d expect some provision like a Cap-free contract buyout option.
I'll say it again....
….Salary Floor! The most difficult thing about what may/will happen this year in an attempt to rebuild this team DURING the season is the limits placed by the Salary Cap Floor. Our current Cap Hit is about $50.9 million, about $2.6 million above the floor. We have 23 on our active roster (can’t remember is Skins is on LTIR and am not sure how that affects the salary cap, but I believe that his salary wouldn’t go against the cap then).
While I like the idea of using some of our UFAs to put a more competitive future together, it will be a delicate dance with grizzled veteran salary coming back (unless we’re lucky to get a good roster player back taking salary with it. For example, if we traded Gleason and LaRose, we’d be losing about $3.45 million in salary. Assume that we brought Dalpe up and his $875,000 salary, we’d basically be right at the floor. Any other UFA trades would require bringing back salary just to meet NHL requirements.
In my opinion what that means is that we may be able to get slightly better prospects or a slightly better pick, because we would be relieving our trading partner of a salary burden. The flip side of this argument is that those same trading partners are well aware of the bind that we are in and could/would use that to drive the value of any of our UFAs down. So it will be a delicate dance….and that is probably why JR hasn’t been able to make some of the moves he would like to. Trading Allen, Ruutu, etc. would really require a creative partner to pull it off.
Therefore, it is very difficult to see how we open up slots for the youngsters to be able to prove that they are NHL ready. I agree that we cannot really play more that 2 or 3 of these guys at a time or we will be equally non-competitive. The key really is to determine which ones and when….we should also be rotating those guys into the 2 or 3 slots that are available so that we can see who is “the man”.
Two ways to skin the cat
Rutherford can take on an aging veteran and overpay him for 2 months to help another team make their salary cap problems disappear as they try to improve for a cup run. In return JR gets much better prospects than otherwise would be available. Not a suggestion but an example. Ruutu as a loaner, for someones salary dump to afford Ruutu and very high AHL prospects or draft choices. They get cap space we get more than the straight trade would normally yield.
Just a nickle on the grass...new thoughts
OK…. Goals scored by the Canes this year—15th in the league right now. Average. Last year, mostly top ten, but I think we finished 12. We’re average in the league in goals and yet we readily acknowledge wwe are short a top six forward. Stall has been is may or may not be out of a slup. Skinner is MIA with a concussion. Jussi isn’t making his shots at the moment either. But the team is still getting goals.
But we are last in the league in goals against. (not last in goal differential but close). C-Leaguer used to argue about us needing better defense more than we needed better offense. Honestly, looking at our issues, we still suck a heck of a lot more on defense than we do on offense.
Staal will come around. Skinner will be back. We’ll pick up a prospect, probably JR will find a decent winger in trade or FA. Dalpe looks like he might develop. We’ve got Rask, Hoffman, others in the system. Rask is looking real promising. Maybe not next year, but within two. Muller has a system which works for these guys. Our offense will be fine. It’s been improving.
But defensively? Ptikanen is our only legitimate top four calibre DMan. And he’s a two way guy, not a shut down guy. He’s out. Faulk looks to be on his way to being a top four guy, but isn’t experienced enough to get there yet—yet he’s getting top 2 minutes on this team. More than Gleason. More than Allen. Faulk looks like he’ll get there—and bet better than Pitkanen on both ends of the ice. So we have two top four defensmen—both two way guys not top end shut down guys. No NHL defensive prospects playing in Charlotte either people. College only, and the defensive college guys are roguh right now and no telling if they ever make an NHL dent: Alt, Levi, Biega…..
But folks, Gleason is showing us and the coaches he’s not a top 4 defenseman. Same for Allen. I like Allen better than leason right now—better size, blocks shots better, clears the crease better. I’m not sure Gleason is contributing much of anything to us last year or now.
McBain is good with his stick, but not that good in his own end—sorry Tripp. He seems to ping when pressured. Turns over the puck. Doesn’t protect the puck very well. Doesn’t skate away from forecheckers well. In the clear, he’s fine. But with Faulk and Pitkanen, Murphy as aoffensive Dman prospect, Dumoulin as a two way guy as a prospect as well with better defensive upside I think McBain—for all is promise, is superfluous on this team.
Our issue is defense. The boys are not getting it done. The D needs more attention than our offense. In my mind right now, trade Gleason and McBain at the deadline. Team’s will want them. Take what we can get. Keep Allen if he takes a cut (but for the right price trade him). Allen and Harrison would be a mighty fine third pairing—either coiuld fill in on higher lines for short times for injury.
Trade these guys not for picks but for promsing defensive prospects at the deadline. They are easier to come by than top six forwards. We need them. Trade any forwards too for a defensive upgrade. Then try like hell for a true top six defenseman this summer to play alongside Faulk/Pitkanen.
or something like that…..
C-Leaguer is rarely off the mark. Offensive defensemen are often overrated and simply not required. I’d argue they are a luxury at best, and a liability at worst. After all, we’ve been thru Ozolinsh. We are currently top heavy on offensive defensemen and are struggling on pure defensvie shut down ability. (I nominate Brandon Sutter as honorary D-Man). We won the cup without a true offensive defenseman, but a solid defenseman who could skate the puck up ice and pass on the fly (Hedican). However, Bret was a DMAN first. Simpy put, we don’t need several of our D-men currently on our roster, and can send the packing.
For all those 3-4 years ago beating the drum on the organEYEzation’s need for offensive defensemen….be careful what you wish for.
Harrumph
Elite Defensemen
I think in today’s NHL, the traditional shut down defenseman who is big as a moose and can’t skate is an anachronism. The elite defensemen who can skate, hit, score, and play solid defense are rare. With an uptempo game, everybody has to have speed and agility. Dumoulin seems to be a prospect who fills an important need for the Hurricanes. A big, physical defenseman who can fly. I doubt you will see PItkanen, Faulk, McBain, or Murphy moved. Gleason, Allen, Harrison, Spacek, and Joslin are all open for trades if there is a deal to be made. I wonder how much interest Harrison will draw due to his very affordable salary and his tremendous improvement as a defenseman. He’s just starting to hit his stride.
I’m thinking that Seidenberg is that BIG shut down defenseman that we should not have let go. But, for some reason JR let him walk…..another UFA fail. You are putting words in my mouth by phrasing “traditional shut down defenseman who is big as a moose and can’t skate is an anachronism”. There are plenty of shut down defensemen in this league that can skate:
Keith
Seabrook
Lidstrom
Chara
Staal
Pronger
Letang
Boyle
Suter
You cannot win with the amount of “offensive defensemen” we currently have on our roster. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.
Harrumph
Chara, Staal, Suter, Weber, Keith
I would agree that there are some shutdown defensemen who can skate. Shutdown defensemen who are physical and who can skate are as rare as skilled, physical, big, fast right wings. It is all about skating. Pylons on defense don’t work well, even they are mean as rattlesnakes. It takes one elite shutdown defenseman, such as Chara, and one elite offensive defenseman, such as Pitkanen and Faulk, and hopefully McBain and Murphy, around which to add excellent, but non-elite defensemen. Look how well Seidenberg and Corvo have done with Boston. Boston has an excellent team and the players have synergy. Remove Chara and things don’t work nearly as well. Remove Chara and Lucic and things get vastly more difficult.
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