NHL Realignment could mean big changes for Carolina Hurricanes
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 1:45 PM EST
in Carolina Hurricanes Analysis
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With all the challenges we've witnessed thus far in the Carolina Hurricanes 2011-12 season, you may have missed another important story brewing with the proposed NHL realignment. The possible benefits and/or consequences for the Canes playoff expectations are significant.
The details and a reader poll - after the jump.
Why is this happening?
The conversation started last June when Southeast Division rival Atlanta Thrashers were transplanted to the far north and west, becoming what is commonly referred to as the Winnipeg Jets2.0. The obvious need to realign the Eastern and Western Conferences opened the door to addressing other problems in the current six division schedule. Most of the concerns come from the West.
Not to over-simplify, but the big problem is that Detroit, Columbus and Dallas are eager to get away from all those expensive/exhausting flights to play games in the Pacific Time Zone.
The concept of a change from four to six divisions was first floated in June and has been gaining momentum - though it's hard to tell if the momentum is rooted only among the media or is actually gaining traction with the League's decision makers.
The NHL's Board of Governors is gathering this week for their Winter Meetings in Pebble Beach, California. Most consider realignment the biggest and most controversial item on the agenda. The latest proposal for a four-division League was revealed on CBC's Hotstove program last night, which included this graphic, the basis of the map at the top.
For those of us who have spent the last ten years as part of the Southeast Division, be prepared for a whole new set of criteria - with some challenging and exciting opponents - to advance past an early April exit, and beyond that, if we want to see the Canes make a deep run for the Cup.
Further details
Regular Season Schedule
The regular season schedule would emphasize the divisional rivalries with six games each. For the Canes, in a 7-team division, that would be 36 games.
The remaining 46 games of the 82 game schedule would be a home-and-home with the other 23 teams in the League. Every NHL team makes an appearance in the RBC Center annually.
Sidenote: You've likely noticed that 30 ÷ 4 ≠ an even integer, so the divisions will either have 7 or 8 teams each. Is that fair? As shown there are 16 teams in the West and 14 in the East. Some suggest this allows for the League to consider an expansion to 32 teams. One also might think a contraction to 28 could happen - though that would likely never fly with anyone on the BoG, and even less likely with the NHL Players Association.
Postseason Format
The playoffs would include the first two rounds strictly inside the Division. Four teams from each division would advance to the postseason, only one would emerge to the Conference Finals. That could make things very intense within each division, with (welcome) echos of the old Adams, Patrick, Smythe and Norris Divisions of the 70s and 80s, no?
What it means
The Canes will see a whole lot of the two Pennsylvania and three New York teams, and a very little of the Florida pair.
In order to make the postseason, the Canes will have to finish the season with a better record than at least three of the following: Penguins, Flyers, Rangers, Capitals, Devils and Islanders. And only one of those will make it to the third round and a crack at the Stanley Cup final. How do you like the Canes chances?
The Penguins, Devils and especially the Capitals have got a headstart on a rivalry with Carolina. The Flyers, Rangers and Islanders are not bad teams to add to the party. (And will this Division be known unofficially as the "Staal Division" ?)
Would RBC ticket sales get a boost with all the Yankee transplants in our midst? Would TV revenues - and hopefully related profits - improve enough lift Jim Rutherford up and out of the bargain basement attitude toward free-agent options?
Will you miss seeing Steven Stamkos and Vinny Lecavalier three times a year? And the same question for whomever is playing for the Panthers this season - and currently dominating in the Southeast, I might add?
The Florida Panthers fans like it - despite the way the Florida teams are moved to become part of the far-away Northeastern clique division (think of the Snowbird revenues). The Dallas Stars bloggers are enthused - which I totally get.
After considering the good and bad, what say you Carolina hockey fans?
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Comments
Florida Teams?
As a Sabres fan more Sabres at Canes games would be great. But the FL teams in basically a very northern division is ridiculous. You have to breakup the PA teams and the NYC teams. EX. FL, TB, Carolina, DC, Philly, NYR, NJ and then MTL, TOR, OTT, BUF, BOS, NYI, PIT
that would actually be less Sabres at Canes games
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
nothing would be worse than more Sabres fans at Canes games
stay home
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 5, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Don't split Pens and Flyers!
Mo’ better IMHO to keep the New York teams with the northern bloc and keep Florida teams, the Devils, and the Pennsylvania pair in the southern. It would be a shame to break up rivalries like Penguins/Flyers or Devils/Hurricanes.
people keep saying this
as if Pens/Flyers is a bigger rivalry than Rangers/Flyers
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
I’m sure this would make those western conference teams happy, but I am not sold. I do think it is odd to put the Florida teams in a NE division. Also I think a bunch of Canes fans would agree with me that the last thing we want at the RBC Center is more rude/obnoxious fans from NY/PA.
actually
I agree that I perceive any visiting fan to be rude…it just assaults my loyalties and gets me riled up to see them cheering…especially if I know that they often don a Canes sweater.
I actually like the idea for the purposes of filling the seats and creating revenue even if it offends my fan senses. The Pittsburgh game Saturday is a great example. The RBC was full of those fans and had a better gate night than any in a while. Think about the normal games against TB, FL, and WP(ATL)….even in a great year those teams did not draw that many relocated hockey fans to the RBC. This could be good and could force PK to get some talent or become the whipping post of tough NE teams
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
I apologize for offending you then
but it’s hard to give up a team you’ve grown up with
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
not at all
I am not offended at all..I mean it in the purest of “good ole fashion hate” sports senses. The reality is…it is good for people to cheer for the Canes, even if part time. I just enjoy ribbing people that have divided loyalties. I really cannot say much since I dumped the Falcons after 40 years of painful fanhood and took on the painful Panthers. Hopefully, you will grow to hate the Bolts and MSL AKA the “Crooked Mickey Mouse” as much as I do. So far the Canes are surely not causing your loyalties to sway. :)
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
Oh my....
Just saw the VOL reference. My sister married into the Rocky Top madness and maintains her UGA love with a hubby and 4 Vols for life. Maybe we can talk about SEC football and all of that some other time. I will help you get some therapy..it’s gonna be okay man!!!
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
well, if this new four conference realignment thing goes through
I won’t have any reason to undivide my loyalties, since Carolina and Tampa will no longer be in the same division.
But I’m following you now. And really, when can’t one talk SEC football?
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
then stay in Pittsburgh.
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 5, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
. . . ?
I pretty well hate the Penguins
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
i was speaking generically
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 5, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
ah
well, I didn’t have much choice about moving to Raleigh, so I’m here, either as a full-time away fan or with split loyalties. I’ve had a bit more fun with the split loyalties so far. I’ll never forget MSL’s game-winning goal in OT of game six of the Stanley Cup Finals back in ‘04, but I’m getting attached to some of these Carolina folks
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
I was at the last two games along with plenty of Ranger and Penguin fans, I really didn’t think they were bad, just rooting for their team.
For whatever reason the Sabre’s fans are by far the worst, rude, drunk etc…, any explanations?
Are they just Jealous because their team has never won a cup?
by CanesFanFromLI on Dec 5, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
if you think it's odd to have a Miami team in the NE
you haven’t been to Miami.
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 5, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
It’s obvious that something needs to be done. And no one seems to be batting an eyelash at Anaheim and Phoenix needing to travel to Edmonton for a divisional game. Those are both longer trips than the longest trip would be in the “blue” division, Florida at Montreal.
What should probably happen is that either Detroit or Columbus should come east, and we have a “crossover” rule similar to the one in the AHL. Each conference would have one seven-team division and one eight-team division, and if the 5th place team in the eight-team division finishes with more points than the fourth-place team in the seven-team division, the former crosses over and serves as the fourth seed in the other division’s playoffs.
Here’s an example:
PIT: 112 pts
NYR: 105
WAS: 97
PHI: 95
CAR: 94
NJD: 84
NYI: 72
DET: 113
BOS: 104
FLA: 98
TB: 97
MTL: 96
BUF: 91
TOR: 89
OTT: 77
In that scenario, Montreal (fifth in the 8-team division) would make the playoffs because they finish with more points than Philly (fourth in the 7-team division). They would then “cross over” and play Pittsburgh in the first round of the playoffs.
Aside from that, why not? It’s a lot easier on body clocks to fly north-south than east-west. It makes a ton of sense to me.
Interesting to note the AHL went to 6 Divisions last summer (now that they have 30 teams) and eliminated the need for the cross over rule that was used in 2011.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Highly disagree on crossover rule
if you’re playing a division-heavy schedule, the results are not particularly comparable across divisions, so a 5th place team in a division with three really bad teams might not be better than a 4th place team with a lower point total but in a more balanced division. The reason the East divisions are both seven teams is to get the East votes. The Western teams are willing to take on eight-team divisions in order to get the travel modifications
Also, while the Anaheim/Edmonton flight is way longer than Florida/Montreal, Tampa and Florida have five of their six division rivals at 1200+ miles away. Anaheim has three of seven
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a great point about the West agreeing to eight-team divisions to get the East votes. I never thought of that but it’s a great point.
by Brian LeBlanc on Dec 4, 2011 2:44 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
As a Bolts/Canes fan
this would make it much easier to cheer for both teams without conflict, but it would also mean I get to see Tampa in Raleigh much less. And the Bolts travel schedule is completely ridiculous. Would’ve liked to see Tampa with Washington (since that’s our biggest rival by far) and Carolina with Buffalo (since y’all have given me the impression that one’s pretty big), but nobody cares about Southeast rivalries, so I expected disappointment. Am glad to see both teams in seven-team divisions. But man, that FLA/TBL travel schedule is INSANE.
Also, beware of those LBC poll results. That poll is glitchy, and I don’t think Panther fans are really that much in favor of the situation. But qua Canes fan, it seems fairly reasonable.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 2:23 PM EST reply actions
Not sure how this would be viewed by all 30 teams but if put to a vote I cannot see much down side for the Canes. In fact, with the 2 PA teams and the 2 NY teams plus the Caps, what a heated rivalry it would become. Would fill more seats for sure.
However being competitive in this new division will be tougher than in the current SE.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
This is my gut feel as well on initial read. I like being pitted against these teams divisionally, and it would force the organization to work harder to stay competitive.
by Jamie Kellner on Dec 4, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
the downside is Karmanos won't spend money
he’ll have a noncompetitive team but will make money by Pens/Rangers/Caps fans filling his building.
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 5, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
I understand what you say but he is also footing the bill for the short-falls over the years he has been the sole owner and partially when his partner was alive. Unless they borrow to cover these short-falls he does have to come up with new cash when there are deficits. I am unsure of how many times this might have happened but likely more times than breaking even or making money.
I suggested before that these new investors have pumped an infusion of new cash and will likely be responsible as the owners group for covering short falls in the future. All in all this new money could make it better for JR. If JR had his hands tied in the past with the “budget” it becomes a more difficult excuse to him to use now and certainly when the second round of investors happens within a year. Just saying.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Dec 5, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Nothing shuts up those fans more than us playing well and scoring goals. And the better we play the more seats are filled by are own fans.
At first that likely won’t be the case but it is still good for the team. We tend to sell more tickets when these teams are in the house and that is good for team finances. I can live with these fans. Rather than get into it I usually start some playful dialogue with those fans near my seats. Once you make eye contact and have established a casual relationship it tends to partially discourage bad behaviour,
Couldn't agree with you more, Sittler...
Having lived in both Buffalo & NYC for extended periods of my life, I have brought fans of both areas to games here, and they are amazed by the Carolina fanbase & how much fun it actually is to attend a game. The locals here who grew up in Yankeeland will eventually be eclipsed by their kids (like mine) who grew up during the Hurricanes Stanley Cup win. Many of my friends that are my age love the ‘Canes, but have lifelong support & childhood memories of the Sabres, Rangers, Islanders etc, and will not give that up (and rightfully so). Their children, however, have been born or grew up here knowing not much else except for Rod Brin’Damour, Cam Ward etc. instead of Alexandeer Mogilny & Dominic Hasek or Mark Messier. Winning would just increase the fervor of these kids to grow into having great memories of growing up a Hurricanes fan.
This alignment would force ownership to either get serious and compete year in year out or the franchise would fold/move. Remember that the “rude” fans can only get in the building if the locals aren’t willing to fill the seats. If the team was winning and playing an exciting game, the place would be full and the revenues would follow. This has not been a good team for a few years and people are still showing up, the interest in hockey is present in this community. There would have to be a real commitment to consistently developing talent (think Tampa Bay Rays) to keep costs down and/or signing talent to compete against the other franchises in the East. Either way, it would take more money and more talent than we are putting forward now if this were the division the Canes are a part of.
I would argue that 80% capacity in this economy with this really, really bad team is more than deserved. I would argue that the organization’s effort to put together a real contender is at about the 70-75% level.
by playwithpride on Dec 4, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why don't they just do the simple thing?
Just swap a team from the West (Det, CBJ, NSH) for WPG and call it a day.
by Gunning For The Cup on Dec 4, 2011 2:39 PM EST reply actions
because the Central division teams don't like having an eighth of their games in Pacific time
Dallas doesn’t like being in a division with all California teams
and I don’t want to try to finish ahead of both Detroit and Washington in division play every year
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Dallas MOVED to Dallas, didn't they?
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 5, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
relevance?
also, they moved before the last realignment.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
It would be fantastic for ticket revenue. But from a competitive stand-point, we would be doomed and I have to think JR would be against this.
I mean what’s easier? Beating one of Montreal, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, or Boston to get in the top 4, beating one of Washington, Philly, Pittsburgh, and NYR to get in the top four, or getting in the top 8 in the conference?
Better ticket revenue would mean more budget dollars for salaries which would mean a lot for this team. For conference alignment you really have to think long term, 5 to ten years or so, and you can’t predict the competitive balance in this league on that kind of scale. Example: ten years ago the Pens were a shadow of what they are now.
by Kubota on Dec 4, 2011 2:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m aware of that, but payroll isn’t going to increase significantly. Pittsburgh will always draw a large crowd. Washington crowds are pretty big, but not as big. Apart from that, I’m just not seeing it. The NYR game Thursday drew 12,500 people. I never think of Philly as being a high selling opponent. Then the Islanders? And the Devils?
And how much are you expecting the team to spend? Are they going to throw an extra 10 million at players because they are getting an extra 5 million in revenue? Won’t other teams be in the same boat and so players are limited? What about the 5 years until the team is able to acquire the revenue? Will they really accumulate enough money during those 5 years of no playoffs and poor performances?
the Islanders and Devils are two of the five teams with lower attendance than Carolina this year. that says something
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Can’t speak for the islanders but the Devils new arena has a premium club section that takes up half of the lower bowl and tickets start at like $200. Went to their home opener last year and that section was half empty.
I haven’t been to the champions club but if it has unlimited free food (including deluxe, made to order burgers, lamb, sushi, etc.) and soda/water then yes I’d say it’s the same. It takes up the same space as our sections 102, 103, 104, 118, 119, 120. I guess half of the lower bowl was an exaggeration but can you imagine all the center ice tickets starting that high?
I went to a Boston game last year and saw the same thing
upper bowl was slam full, lower bowl was almost entirely empty. I had never seen anything like it before, but some locals told me it was actually pretty common in the Northeast.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
I like the alignment, it would mean more butts in the seats on a more consistent basis. Granted a lot of those butts will be cheering for the visitors, especially when the home product is bad, but those non-caniac butts money is still green isn’t it? It could mean more economic certainty and consistency for the team, which is a very good thing in one of the smallest markets in the league.
The deal with the florida teams looks interesting, I have to think they signed off on this alignment, and they’re thinking those high profile teams will increase their bottom line (let’s face it, Carolina isn’t a draw in their away games the way most teams are). It’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out
by Kubota on Dec 4, 2011 2:46 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Really want the home-and-home with every team. Being able to see every other team here would be nice
Stay with 6 divisions
SJ- LA Ana – Phx Col
Van- Cal – Edm – Win – Mn
Dal- Tampa – Fla- Nash – Car
Stl – Chi – Det – Col – Pit
Was- Phi – NJ – NYR – NYI
To – Buf – Ott- Bos- Mtl
By looking at the above map no matter how you slice it, the Canucks, Flames, and Oil are pretty far from anyone. Then you have a glut of teams in the NE, and a number in the central or mid-west area of the country. There will be teams that are close to each other who won’t be in the same division. Tough one, glad I don’t have to make the decision!
I just don't see major realignment happening yet
The league still owns a team that could move. Why on earth settle this now before the Phoenix situation is figured out? A move by that team to the eastern time zone could throw the whole plan for a loop anyway.
Could be right, maybe a major realignment is more than the NHL wants on their plate right now. Easy short term solution is moving the Jets west and the Preds to the SE. I know there are teams in the west who have long complained about travel schedules, but the realignment topic being so hot was because a team moved out of the SE and went west. The Preds being in the same division as the Canes makes sense anyway. Maybe go as far as a 3 team move and put the Jets in the NW division, the Wild in the Central, and the Preds in the SE.
See where the ’Yotes may land in the future, if they go anywhere and then deal with it. Right now some NHL cities are just plain too far away from everyone else,
Having hashing this out with my cohorts in Nashville, the Preds are strongly against losing their Central Division rivalries. They say no thank you to seeing the SE Division teams in the house often.
One basic issue is that nobody wants the Canes, Lightning nor Panthers because those teams don’t sell tickets when they visit. Splitting them up as shown above resolves that pretty nicely. Toronto and Montreal fans don’t give a flip who the opponent is.
Further, the Snowbird effect is real apparently – with many natives of the current NE teams spending their winters in Florida. The Panthers have been marketing winter vacation trips to Montreal and Toronto fans pretty effectively – as I understand it. See their teams much cheaper than at home and get to escape the Canadian winter to boot.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Realistically, will the BOG pass any form of realignment at Pebble Beach? Or is this a preliminary discussion/debate to hash out the details and vote on realignment at a later date?
Originally (in September) it was said that they had to decide in December to get the schedule planning underway. This week I heard it might be delayed to the ASG weekend, but that’s the final verdict.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
If you read the Kevin Allen story this afternoon at USA Today, NHL realignment needs Eastern OK, there’s a pretty telling paragraph:
If it’s assumed — and it’s not confirmed — that every Western team supports the four-conference plan, then five Eastern votes would be needed to pass. Of course, one of the Eastern teams is the Winnipeg Jets, formerly known as the Atlanta Thrashers. It’s their need to be regrouped with Western teams that is the genesis for realignment. Presumably, they support the four-conference concept. That means only four more Eastern votes would be needed for passage, and supporters of the four-conference seem to believe that the Philadelphia Flyers are now in their corner. Now it’s down to three.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 4:04 PM EST reply actions
I have a feeling the entire Atlantic will support it
because they get to be in a seven-team division and they don’t get split up. And then it passes
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder which eastern teams would be against the proposed alignment. Might it be Florida and TB?
by unyieldingflan on Dec 4, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
as a fan of Tampa
I really dislike this alignment. Although it might be better than the alternative in which the Southeast division consists of Detroit, Washington, Tampa, Carolina, and Florida.
But the NHL is fine with screwing a pair of Sun Belt teams to get the votes from the hockey bluebloods
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
The chatter among the SE Division bloggers is that this will definitely sell tickets when all those NE teams come to town. Course they won’t be wearing Lightning jerseys. But it also might inspire the locals to show up. (Not unlike the controversy over Buffalo games here in Raleigh last Spring)
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just not so sure that increased ticket sales would offset increased travel costs
I have no concept of how those numbers work out. But I tend to think that if the Bolts organization is run as it should be, we won’t need snowbirds to fill seats. Tampa was top 5 in attendance for two season after the Stanley Cup (even after the lockout) and top ten for three. And I find it a bit insulting to insinuate that the organization needs away fans to survive.
I also dislike losing Washington, which is the only rival the Bolts have.
I’m not sure if there’s a parallel for Carolina, since I’ve only been in Raleigh since June and hanging around here since October.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
I would think the rivalry with Boston has some meat after last May? Not to say it’s ideal for Tampa Bay, but there are tradeoffs.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
that was a fantastic series
and we might could get some bad blood flowing if we had a couple more memorable tussles.
But I’ve been hating Washington since I was a little kid. The pair of playoff series wins over them were the culmination of years of loathing. Boston has a long way to go to get to that level.
But like I said, nobody outside the markets are really bothered by losing rivalries like that, so I can’t say I’m particularly surprised, just disappointed. It’s going to take a lot for any Southeast team to get someone to take us seriously as a rival.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
At the moment, Boucher in Montreal makes a pretty good headline too (and Lecavalier). Just trying to emphasize the positive.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
both fair points
I’m not completely disgusted by the suggestion (as I was with Detroit in the Southeast), and I see how some good things could grow out of it. I really do like the idea of keeping the first two rounds of the playoffs within the division, although I wanted a division with Washington. But I’m still disappointed that the pandering to Pennsylvania got in the way of what I thought was a much better proposal.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
The actual increase in travel costs is less than you may think…. It’s still one takeoff, and an extra hour of flight time isn’t that significant.
like I said, I really have no concept
do fuel costs go up? is it only a mild difference?
It’s not like an additional thousand fans four times a year is a big difference either
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see why they can’t put NYR, NYI, and NJ in the Blue Conference, then move Nsh, Tam, and Fla to the green. Both conferences would still be very competitive. Having to leapfrog one conefrence to play in your own is kind of ridiculous in my opinion.
The only easy day was yesterday.
they don't want to split Philly from the NYC teams. the Flyers and Rangers rivalry is more important than Flyers/Pens
I’d be cool with switching WAS/CAR/PIT for BOS/TOR/OTT as well (keeps the current Southeast together, balances geography a bit more, AND makes Carolina/Buffalo a division rivalry), but Pittsburgh would pitch a fit.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW The Pennsylvania pair went ballistic when it was suggested they be split – this was in reaction to a proposal that leaked out a month ago.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, I saw that
this was more of a wishful thinking idea. The current Atlantic division just makes any logical attempt at a four division model impossible, because every split has somebody freaking out. As you mentioned, it’s the Pennsylvania pair in this case.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 4, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
you can rest assured they will give Mario whatever he wants
or was 3 straight number one draft picks not enough proof of that?
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 5, 2011 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
You mean after they bottomed out for two of those years and won a weighted draft lottery based on how bad they were after the lockout?
you will never convince me that
the “weighting” in those lotteries involved weighted pingpong balls that made sure the Pens got the first pick.
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 5, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
edit: did NOT involve
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Dec 5, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah and the moon landings were shot in a movie studio so we could win the space race and the US government orchestrated 911 to give itself more power and the ability to attack countries in the Middle East.
by jfhammon on Dec 5, 2011 4:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
and Qatar totally cheated to get the 2022 bid. . .
wait a second
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
The two terrible years, they earned those. Crosby was handed to them to force the city into building a new arena.
I believe in strength. I believe in unity. And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, word and deed then so be it.
by Douchebag St John on Dec 5, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
if we stay a budget team then we will never make the playoffs. also every home game will sound like an away game like when we play pitt.
GO CANES
And PK will still make money, which is all he cares about.
I believe in strength. I believe in unity. And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, word and deed then so be it.
by Douchebag St John on Dec 5, 2011 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
I just don’t see how this benefits the team except for maybe 12 or so games a season (3 Pittsburgh, 3 Washington, 1 Buffalo, some miscellaneous games with interesting opponents like Boston/Detroit/etc.).
We’d get Detroit & Chicago every season too. Not sure any other Western teams would be significant?
Vancouver is coming on Dec 15, for the first time in 2 years. Are they expecting a big turnout I wonder?
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
When I think of Western Conference teams I want to see, I think of Vancouver, San Jose, Detroit, and Chicago. Maybe even Minnesota and Edmonton.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d like to see all the Western teams too. But I don’t think teams like Phoenix and Columbus will draw bigger crowds than Florida games.
While i voted Yes it was a great idea
like anything else we must remember the NHL will do what it will do to protect the intrests of the NHL and the teams..so this may or could be tweaked…and i agree with the earlier ciomment of it happening either now or at the All-Star Game break as ‘scheduling being the key seein now how the NBA is starting back up in a couple of weeks for the next several years..so it will all but be or a must be situation …Other than that..how about we fans see if we can’t enourage the Canes get a couple of wins this week …Thanks Miss Carolyn..
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
Much ado
What happens when Phoenix or Florida, or whoever, goes through a rough patch again ? Is Phoenix guaranteed a franchise ? No. We’ll be going through this again in a few years I guess.
I don’t think the ‘Canes Org will have much say in this and I don’t really care. You win the Cup by having a superior team not by being in an “easy” division.
Detroit and Nashville played in a very easy division for years as Chicago, St.Louis and Columbus went through a rough patch. They basically got a pass into the Playoffs and were usually one-and-done because they just weren’t as good as their point totals indicated.
I say build a solid team and bring it on.
Oh and maybe put Toronto in their own little division so they can win something.
I think the likelihood that Phoenix will be moving – is partly why they are showing a 16 team Western Conference. Phoenix could be relocated to the East by next season (Quebec City?). As opposed to leaving it as 6 divisions of 5, this 4-division format makes that possibility a little less troublesome to solve if/when it happens.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 4, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
I voted other
In the end it just doesn’t matter what the owners decide. We know their motive, profits, but we don’t know how they will value the alternative decisions. Karmanos will have one vote of thirty. In the end we have 41 home games a year against the opponents the league sends here. Sooner or later you have to beat the good teams to be in finals. For the 41 away games you get on a plane and fly somewhere. It’s not like they have to pay $10 extra to get a place in the A line to insure they get an aisle seat. Our schedule issue isn’t just who we play but the high number of B2B games we play. I’m for the realignment plan that puts the most butts in seats and reduces the B2B to the league average.
Why not move the Florida teams to the central. And move Detroit n Columbus to northeast. Makes more sense to me
by jerry6racing on Dec 4, 2011 10:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Hurricanes related news from Sweden!
Viktor Rask has been chosen to play in the WJC for Sweden this upcoming tournament after making 22 points in 26 games with Calgary Hitmen. And Frederik Andersen is keeping up his good play and leads all goaltenders in the Swedish Elite League with 0.9426 in save % and 1.57 in GAA and 4 SO.
That’s good news on both counts. Thanks for the update.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 5, 2011 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
I just looked it up and you’re right, he hasn’t played since Nov 18 and Frolunda has really struggled since (1-2-2). I hadn’t seen anything about an injury, but that is likely from those facts. I’ll keep an eye out for more.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 5, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Frederik Andersen is turning out to be a monster! Jaroslav Halak or Henrik Ludqvist anyone?
by JussiJuice on Dec 5, 2011 11:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’m not sure why you wouldn’t siphon Isles and Rags (two NY teams) up to the NE and put the two FL in the lower group instead of the funny divide they went with….
…makes no sense to me, except to put have division playoffs to remove at least one of the more likely top playoff teams out of the fight from the PA/NY/DC division than would happen with the current playoff format. Also seems the competition would be harder in our little blue divisions in the intitial playoffs than in most of the others.
they want to keep the Philly/NYR rivalry
seriously, whenever there’s a question about why they didn’t do a geographically sensible thing, the correct answer is always “protecting a rivalry with Philly.”
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I wasn’t even aware there was a rivalry between them until these season
Besides, isnt one of the reasons for this plan to create NEW rivalries?
by hurricane9 on Dec 5, 2011 12:29 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
it is my understanding that Philly/NYR is Philly's biggest rivalry
but I could be wrong
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
What do they do with Phoenix? With Quebec City and Markham building new rinks, you’d think one if not both get NHL teams.
If Coyotes move to the “blue” division, then there are 15 teams each in the East and West. Works out fine. Or maybe they will expand to 32 (with QC and Markham) and send the Coyotes to Seattle or Kansas City?
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 5, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Markham arena is still 2-3 years away and an unknown – town council hasn’t yet approved it. No sense in writing division lines for something that may not happen 3 years from now. This is going to be the new Hamilton-type rumor generator for the next 4 years.
Absolutely – 32 teams could be something 5 years out, but the planning starts now.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 5, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, but they could move a team there next year and play out of Copps Coliseum in Hamilton temporarily; plus QC’s arena is still a couple of years out too. Phoenix most likely won’t be in Phoenix next year, the franchise has to move somewhere, it most likely moves somewhere in NE Canada, QC seems to be the front runner, this will impact the alignment. At what point do they tell the public they’re moving Phoenix?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/a-new-nhl-ready-arena-in-the-gta/article2245955/
There is a ton on realignment being written today and I’ve seen that the NHL can’t talk to other cities about pulling out of Phoenix till after Jan 1 (due to contractual restrictions). They will likely wait till last minute like they did in Atlanta.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 5, 2011 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, which would mean doing another realignment. Why not wait a month and do it all at once, that would seem like the smart thing to do.
They might. As I wrote above, they may decide to defer the final decision to ASG weekend. They could also decide where 29 teams go with Phoenix as TBD, with an option of either remaining in the red or moving to (in all likelihood) the blue. But they may decide this time to go forward with only a 4-division plan and then vote on the exact assignments in January.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 5, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Seattle does not have an pro-sports caliber barn. That’s why they lost their basketball team to Oklahoma City. And the city is putting huge amounts of money into infrastructure so a sports barn isn’t likely to happen soon.
by drifterscape on Dec 5, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
TV Exposure
I posted yesterday that I could not see much down side for the Canes on this proposal. I tried to see if anyone else posted this thought and did not see any (sorry if I missed someone).
It would seem that TV exposure for the Canes will take a likely dramatic upturn with this set-up. The TV folks love all the rest of these teams except possible the Islanders.
All in all I really like this proposal for the Canes…….
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
for TV purposes, the Atlantic is the only division in hockey (the Red Wings are a popular independent team though)
so yeah, should help
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Yep
Such an alignment would help our TV coverage and attendance, but it also puts us up against the proverbial powerhouses of the East. Outside of Boston, most of the East’s top teams would be in our little blue box—arguably the most competitive division out of the four…
FWIW – Bob McKenzie tweeted that he thinks the BoG will have a decision made by the end of today.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 5, 2011 11:14 AM EST reply actions
The Florida teams
seem to want this due to expected out-of-towners coming in. I really like the idea – under one condition: they rename the “conferences” Adams, Patrick, Norris and Smythe. Bring some history back to the game. And realistically, the Canes would only have to be the 4th best team out of 7 to get in instead of the 8th best team out of 15. Hope the Islanders continue to kill goalies and that the Devils signing of Kovy cripples them and then you just have to out-grit one team to sneak in.
They are saying they will be called “Conferences” (i used Divisions so not to confuse with current East and West) and whether they go with those former names or something like “Gretzky” “Orr” etc hasn’t been said. (“Francis”, “Lemieux”, “Yzerman”……..)
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Dec 5, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
people say this about Florida fans, but do actual Florida fans think this?
doesn’t seem too popular on LitterBoxCats
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but 4th out of seven against Pitt, Philly, DC, NYR and NJ?? Tough competition. ANd big spending teams. Seems like it would be us vs the Isles for last, and one usual playoff contender would be left out under this realignment in this blue division…..
FWIW, that division produced four playoff teams last year (lowest seeded: #8)
five in 2010 (lowest seeded: #7), Flyers would be out on the new model
SIX in 2009 (lowest seeded: #7), Canes and Rangers would be out on the new model
five in 2008 (lowest seeded: #6), Flyers would be out on the new model
four in 2007 (lowest seeded: #8)
four in 2006 (lowest seeded: #6)
So in the six seasons since the lockout, a combined four playoff teams (Philly twice, Carolina once, NYR once) would’ve been left out on this model
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 5, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
That’s the stats, I’d say they agree with me, but not sure what your take is. Which would imply as Puck Daddy pointed out, it’s not as fair as the current playoff system.
But what I didn’t hink about, is it will pit the first two playoff rounds against the same opponents we see the most during the year. Current playoffs are more of a toss up, and you most likely face someone from outside your division now more often than not.
I seem to believe the playoffs would be more exciting now because you would face more variety of opponents, while under the new system you’d face the same teams you fought just to get to the playoffs—why fight them again?
I do genuinely think that it'll help build rivalries
who hates us right now? Does anybody? But we knock New Jersey out in seven games another once or twice, and we could really get something going.
But there are certainly drawbacks, and you’ve mentioned most.
Another something to thing about: last year’s conference finals. The Sharks and Canucks are now division foes, so that’s a second round matchup. The Bolts and Bruins, who played one of the most entertaining conference finals out there, decided 1-0 in game seven, are also in the same division and would meet in the second round. On the new model, instead of San Jose, Vancouver, Boston, and Tampa, the Final Four is Vancouver, Detroit, Boston, and probably Pittsburgh (who as it is was knocked out in the first round). Better for ratings, of course. But better? Not so sure.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 6, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
unrelated
But is anyone else hoping that after the Calgary game that Kabs misses flight while putting his makeup on and Jerome somehow boards for Edmonton? Dreaming sometimes feels good
by jerry6racing on Dec 5, 2011 12:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Realignment
If this shakes out and this is the teams we are going to play then JR has to go to PK and force him to spend more money on this team to be competative. Then if PK is not willing to do this then he needs to decide on selling his part of the team and bring someone in who is willing to spend the money and have a successful team on the ice.
If this doesn’t happen, look for tickets sells for STH holder’s to drop significantly.
I’m wondering if t.v. revenue would increase?
by skinnerthewinner on Dec 5, 2011 12:21 PM EST reply actions
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