Rutherford: "Outlook On Team Has Changed", More On Sergei Samsonov for Bryan Allen
by Bob Wage on Feb 28, 2011 4:46 PM EST
in Carolina Hurricanes Analysis
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PrintEarlier this afternoon, the Carolina Hurricanes traded forward Sergei Samsonov to the Florida Panthers for gritty defenseman Bryan Allen. Samsonov currently earns $2.8 million, but his contract expires at the end of this season. Allen has one more year left on his deal which will pay him $3.15 million next season.
Samsonov had a pretty good run at Carolina, (10g 16A so far this season), but never really seemed to mesh well with the system currently employed by the Carolina coaching staff. He was shuffled from one line to another and sometimes he played limited minutes while on the fourth line.
Allen, at 6'4, 220, could be the big, strong, stay-at-home defenseman many Carolina fans have coveted. He was one of the pieces acquired by the Panthers when they traded Roberto Luongo to Vancouver and he can play a gritty, physical game when he is healthy.
The defenseman told Jim Rutherford that he is feeling as healthy as he has in awhile. He also said he's very happy to be joining the Canes and waived a "No Movement Clause" in order for the trade to be completed.
Rutherford said that Cory Stillman highly recommended the blueliner, "Not that we will hold it against Stillman if he is wrong", the GM quipped.
At Rutherford's press conference today, he was asked if his outlook on the team had changed from the beginning of the year and the GM answered "yes", it had.
Rutherford admitted that he has transitioned his thinking from purely rebuilding the team, to trying to contend for the Cup this season. His actions in the past couple of days have backed that up as the team acquired two fairly expensive veterans in Stillman and Allen.
After the press conference, I had a brief chance to ask Rutherford if acquiring Allen had any affect on whether or not the organization would re-sign Joni Pitkanen next season.
"No, not at all", he replied. "All the players with expiring contracts this season will be evaluated from now to the end of the season. A decision will be made during the offseason what to do at that time."
Rutherford also added, "Of course if we do well, and go deeply into the postseason, we will be in a much better position to re-sign players. If we don't, then it's a different story."
Rutherford said that the franchise had been considering acquiring Allen since before the Ian White deal. But it was a matter of making the numbers and contracts work.
Earlier in the day, defenseman Brett Carson was picked up by the Calgary Flames off the waiver wire. Rutherford said that they expected Carson not to be claimed and to make it through to Charlotte. They might consider picking him up again later if the opportunity presents itself.
The Flames have to keep Carson on the active roster now if they want to keep him. If they try to re-assign him to the AHL, he would go back on waivers and any team, including the Canes, could pick him up.
Later tonight, we wll have another article reviewing the changes made by the team and what might happen from here.
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Waiving the NMC
One would think this is a positive for the ’Canes and their organization that players want to come here. This speaks highly of the GM, coaching staff, and FANS.
It has to be more exciting playing at the RBC Center in front of the Caniacs as compared to Florida!
Shoot the puck!!!!!!
No offense to any Florida fans here, but if I got a chance to get off the Panthers, I would take it.
Yeah, I feel about the same way.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. But in that sense I feel Allen’s $3 million could have been put towards a star like Brad Richards who also mentioned having a desire to play for the Canes. JR’s comments seem to indicate that there may not be enough $$ to resign pits… much less a guy like Richards.
by JussiJuice on Feb 28, 2011 5:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But if we also had to give up Gleason, McBain and Dalpe to Dallas just to rent Richards, and he was only willing to waive his NTC for the Rangers, Richards wasn’t really an option. At least that’s what it look like to me.
Richards is a UFA – we could talk to his agent in July. We can still trade Allen – sounds like Dmen are at a premium, and there are very few UFA’s this season.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Feb 28, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t mean trading for Richards… I meant picking him up as a UFA this offseason.
If how far we go into the Playoffs determine whether or not we can even re-sign our UFAs such as Pitkanen, I highly doubt the org is willing to put up the cash for Brad Richards.
Personally I like Bryan Allen and am interested to see if he can continue playing his gritty game here while remaining uninjured. I think he is a legit top-4 guy.
If JR really wants to resign Pitkanen but he doesn’t have the funds, he can easily trade Allen during the off-season and get something good back in return.
“Of course if we do well, and go deeply into the postseason, we will be in a much better position to re-sign players. If we don’t, then it’s a different story.”
-JR
Indicates to me that if don’t go at least past the 1st Round (or do not make the Playoffs at all) then it doesn’t look very good for the UFA season. Especially not to go into a bidding war with teams that have an unlimited budget.
Well, by definition, it IS a different story.
Either we will be in a “much better position” by picking up playoff revenue, or we will not be (i.e. in the same spot we are now.)
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
i.e. in the same spot we are now.
That’s a flawed premise. By picking up Allen and his salary for next season we have more money committed towards players next year which means less available to re-sign players.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
But it also means we have already had the chance to pick up a player at what we determined to be a reasonable price as opposed to being forced to fight for them with the other 29 teams in the league.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
That’s true, but it means that our position has changed.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
I'm talking about today, right now.
That’s what I meant by “now.” Not yesterday, not noon today, not a second before we knew Allen would be around for the next 100 games or so.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Um, yeah. Me too. Rutherford said TODAY that Carson was waived to make room for Allen. The Allen trade was set in motion a couple of days ago. Seriously, what’s so hard to understand about this? JR had to move Carson to acquire Allen.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Then why did he even MENTION the possibility of losing him without a replacement?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
That's the only point I'm making.
When he put Carson on waivers, there was no guarantee that he’d have Allen or any other defenseman to replace him. All I’ve ever said.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn't.
Rutherford admitted as much. They could have easily waited to waive him until the trade was agreed-upon, completed, and official. But they didn’t.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
We needed to sign a shutdown defenseman over the off-season anyway. I would have prioritized that over signing another 1st line center. We would have to pay basically what we are going to be paying Allen, but his contract is better in that it expires after a year.
Yes.
I’ve been making this point all afternoon.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Except that $3 mil from Brindy and $.733 from Kaberle drop off next year. That washes Allen’s salary.
GO CANES! Go Heels!
Brindy was bought out, 2/3 the salary, so that’s $2.733 saved from those 2. That most of Allen’s salary, but not quite the whole thing.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
by PackPride17 on Feb 28, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
IT doesn’t wash Allen’s salary because Allen’s salary is new. If you’ve got a car that is paid off next month(Samsonov) and are looking at buying a house because you’ve now got money to spend (Pitkanen) you can’t buy a new car (Allen) and say it all balances out. That’s not how finances work.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
I’m not sure if the premise is true, but if it is, then if we are paying $2.733 due to buy outs this season that end, then we are not paying $2.733 next season, which would almost wash out the Allen contract.
Again, that money coming off the books was already factored in. That money was already there for signing Joni at the start of the season. If they wanted to do something to help the chances of signing Joni they would have needed to send out a contract for next season, like Ruutu’s, or an RFA that will get a raise, like Sutter. None of these things happened. Instead the Canes took on salary and that eats in to the available funds for Joni.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Agreed… But he certainly didn’t say anything to the effect of “We are planning on keeping our #1 Dman Joni whether we go far into the Playoffs or not”. Or “Joni is irreplaceable and we must do all we can to keep him”.
Honestly, I think he was just positioning himself for negogiations through the media like he is famous of doing. He loves Pitkanen and was chasing him for years. He isn’t going to go out into the media and insult his “shortcomings” for no reason.
This.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Was confused… You were talking about what JR said, not me.
Talking about Joni’s shortcomings may very well be a foreshadowing that he won’t be re-signed.
If JR truly loved Joni and found him irreplaceable… He would have signed him last off-season like he did with Staal/Ward.
If JR truly loved Joni and found him irreplaceable… He would have signed him last off-season like he did with Staal/Ward.
That seems like a big assumption to me. At the end of last season, McBain was on fire and was looking like our future. Most people here believed that he would be Pitkanen’s replacement very soon. JR probably thought the same, but look how that has turned out.
Takes two to tango.
Agents, players, and other people can influence the willingness to reach a contract agreement before having a chance to hit the market. Maybe Joni thinks he’ll have a better chance to make huge bank when he’s negotiating with 30 teams instead of one.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t put it off on the agent. I’m sure Joni would like the extra coin too. Fact is he’s young and doesn’t have the ties to keep him here like some of the other players. He’s also just now starting a family so he can chose to settle where ever he wants.
If Jr can keep Joni and for under $5M per than I’ll give him a ton of credit.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
His two best friends live here. His wife is also best friends with their families. He loves the area, and may not want to move his young family.
I just don’t see Joni being the type of person to leave his best friends and move to a major hockey market.
I’m not saying there isn’t a possibility of him leaving for money, I’m just trying to show that he does have some ties that may influence him to sign for less here. I don’t know the guy…we don’t know what he will do.
How much is that worth to him? What’s the most important thing for him now that he has a young child? A good contract could net him $500k to $750K per year over a 5 year span of the contract. That’s $2.5 to $3.75M extra dollars and sets the level for his next contract, signed at age 32 even higher. The extra money he earns now could compound in the next deal. Were talking maybe as much as $8 to $10 M dollars.
As I said, I hope he stays and there are some things that could keep him here. But the money we’re talking about isn’t chicken feed and it isn’t a little extra at the end of his career. There is a significant amount of money that Joni could be leaving on the table staying here.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Dont forget state taxes
If they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it
by Killswitch on Feb 28, 2011 8:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
But he’s also only been here a few years and will likely sign a contract after this one so he may want to have a higher value in this contract to have a higher starting point for his next contract.
I’d love to have him stay, and there are things that will attract him to stay, but it’s not as strong as, say, Ray Whitney.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Ray Whitney ruined any thought of “Player loyalty” and “home town discount” in my mind. Unless I see it, I will never believe in it again.
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
That had a lot to do with no other teams offering the same price/length on a deal. It’s not like Corvo signed here July 1. It wasn’t until the 7th when the market for players had already slowed considerably.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Pretty sure JR was quoted as saying Joe wanted to play here and worked with the organization to make it happen. Thats a hometown discount if ive ever seen one.
If they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it
by Killswitch on Feb 28, 2011 8:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The crying here over Whitney is so asinine.
Purely on finances, I’d be shocked if JR offered him more than $2.5M/year, so that’s a cool $1M difference for a guy who’s old enough to need to consider whether it’s his last contract. And NC’s state income tax way outstrips the higher cost of living in Phoenix.
Now do some reading on why the intangibles cut both ways for Whitney. The Triangle is obviously a great place for hockey players and their families, we know that from years of observing players who love it here. But it ain’t the only one, and I’m getting a little tired of my fellow Caniacs calling out NC’s family atmosphere, loyalty etc. with the same arrogance some Canadian fans load into the words “hockey market.”
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the Greensboro Coliseum rafters in 1997 didn't see any of this coming.
Joni will sign for a MINIMUM of $5 mil somewhere. If the Canes can get him for 3 yrs $15 mil it will be a win.
And the player's union encouraging him to get as much as he can to keep the market strong for other FAs in this year and those to come.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
Plus his agent’s greed (gotta get his cut). Players face a lot of external pressure to take the money.
by East of Here on Feb 28, 2011 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Pretty certain Joni’s rights get moved for a back of pucks at the draft.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 28, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
And you honestly think that the Canes will be able to compete in a bidding war for Joni as a UFA? I just find that highly unlikely.
Look at the pending UFA D, Joni is probably the best for his age and talent level. I think we are looking at a Wade Redden or Brian Campbell type overpayment by some team due to the lack of talent.
Absolutely I don't. I'm on board with everything you've said here.
So what would have been the incentive for him to sign an early extension before having that chance to collect that overpayment?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think there is one. I think it was a mistake to foreseeably lose him for nothing for a few million in Playoff revenue.
Which makes me even less excited about this offseason. Means the budgets are extremely tight and nothing that great will be added.
Again...
Do you have any proof that any firm offer was ever even made? If the best we could have done was, say, a middling prospect and a mid-round pick in a weak draft, then why trade him? He certainly has his flaws as an inconsistent rental.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
There is proof to the contrary. JR said there were no firm offers for Pitkanen, just teams inquiring about him.
Teams don’t make firm offers unless the other team is receptive. If someone calls and says is Joni available they are willing to make an offer. We know people called. JR said so. GM’s won’t say is Joni available and we’d like to offer X because then you start negotiating against yourself and end up in a worse position. Don’t take the fact that details weren’t discussed as proof that no details would have emerged.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
And if they weren't willing to suggest finite assets they'd sacrifice to get him...
Were they really that interested at all?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 2, 2011 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
Do you have any proof that he didn’t get an offer?
It is common sense… JR said there were no firm offers for Whitney also. You are going to believe that a future $5-6 million dollar rental D didn’t have ANY interest on deadline day? Ok…
Just passing along what JR said. You can speculate that he is lying, and maybe he is, but all you have is speculation.
Again, you’re misinterpreting what JR says. GMs don’t call up and say I’d like X and I’ll give you Y. They function a lot more like boys and girls asking each other out to a middle school dance. It’s circuitous and tentative. No one jumps out on a limb and specific pieces aren’t discussed until much farther down the road. If a GM called to inquire about Joni they were serious.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
...just not serious enough to make it worth our while to get rid of him.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 2, 2011 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
Don't need any.
I’m not the one trying to assert that Rutherford erred in his process.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 1, 2011 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
A bidding war for Joni would be very bad.
Gleason, Corvo, Allen, & McBain are getting a combined $1.1 million raise. Joslin & Harrison would probably be looking for $500K increases between them. I think Pitkanen is probably looking for close to $5.5 million or higher. So that would be around $3 million more than current and almost $5 million more than what the Canes started the season with on defense in 10/11.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
Let Joni walk, use the extra cash for another winger to replace Stillman and bring up Rodney next season. Boom!
Still not a crook!
“Boom” sounds like an appropriate representation of a hockey team featuring Bryan Rodney as one of its six defenseman.
If we lose Pitkanen
We can still easily wind up with Allen/Corvo, Gleason/McBain, Joslin/Harrison and with the way most people think about Joni’s defensive shortcomings, this looks more solid than any line-up we’ve had this year…
…we have 7 defenders now.
We could have Team Canada and it would be ‘that dam Pronger and his stupid penalties’.
by drifterscape on Feb 28, 2011 11:17 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldnt be surprised if theyve talked money and they are a ways a part. Theres a definite reason he would feel the need to mention his ‘shortcomings’. Of course this could also be motivation to say, if you think youre worth that much, start playing like it. Either way, no way hes worth more than $5M..if another team thinks he is, let them have him and watch him melt under the spotlight.
If they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it
by Killswitch on Feb 28, 2011 7:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And why would he?
That would only be setting the team and the fanbase up for failure and disappoint.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
The key to that statement is ‘players’ plural, they’ll be money for Joni. He is our #1 Dman, and he wants to play here. Might even take less money to keep him.
Staal for ALL-STAR CAPTAIN
Look around, the Canes actually pay a premium for Star players… They do not get hometown discounts.
As for really wanting to play here, Ray Whitney “Really wanted to play here” too. It is all about the money, especially when these guys are looking for their prime-years contract.
LOL...
He wanted to play here more than LA.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Or, rather, non-trader.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Whitney had his car collection to worry about.. the dry air of the Arizona desert is a better environment for his cars. Boourns.
"It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times..."
by Gramm Matthew Esq. on Feb 28, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Doubt that...
But the inability to find a decent deal to ship him out would tell me that he might not get as much attention as an FA as I have thought he will.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
When did JR indicate no $$ to resign Joni? I got the opposite of that.
Check out the back and forth DeCock and I had on Twitter. He contended that Carson was waived to say $95K ( I made the same contention but changed my mind after sleeping). DeCock thinks the finances are that tight.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
We didn't have eight defensemen when he was put on the wire
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Carson was waived before a trade for Allen had been agreed to.
Rutherford admitted there was a chance they were waiving Carson without a replacement.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
He also said he was waiving Carson to make room for Allen. Hate to tell you this but you’ve got this wrong. Carson was waived to make room for Allen.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Hate to tell you YOU'VE got it wrong, but...
"If we hadn’t been able to add a defenseman later in the day, I would have been sitting here, telling you and being honest with you, that I would have been devastated about losing (Carson)," said Rutherford. "The fact that we were able to complete what we set out to do, to add another defenseman, I’m OK with it."
From the TTS Blog on CH.com
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
The quote you just provided shows you were wrong
“The fact that we were able to complete what we set out to do, to add another defenseman, I’m OK with it.”
What they set out to do, yes.
That is never a guarantee. Had they not been able to come to an agreement with Florida or another team, would they have signed a street free agent just to prove you right?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
So, they wouldn’t have. They had a deal in the works to trade for Allen. JR was assuming that deal was going to happen and that Carson was not going to be claimed (a bad decision, as he said), so he went ahead and waived Carson in anticipation. Carson was then claimed, but the deal wasn’t completed yet and it was a very likely possibility that Florida could have backed out, which would have made JR devastated because he made a poor decision.
What were the odds that they couldn’t find a D though? I’d say slim to none with the amount of D moved and the relatively low cost of them.
What were the odds? Neither you nor I know.
However, I’ll guarantee you it was short of 100%.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
I read that as JR was about 100% sure that Allen was coming into fold. JR doesn’t put Carson on waivers if he’s not sure he is going to be bringing Allen in. Hence, I’m pretty sure Carson was put on waivers to make room for Allen or any other defensemen they worked out a deal for.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.
Disagree with DeCock
I don’t think they cut Carson loose over money. If money was that tight, why get Allen? There were cheaper options out there, (including the earlier rumor Randy Jones at 1 million).
I think they saw that Carson wasn’t going to get playing time here and tried to get him to Charlotte. The Checkers could sure use him.
Editing Manager of Canes Country.com
That’s the same argument I made to DeCock and the same one I made in the Carson waiver thread (at least after sleeping and not thinking it was a salary dump and realizing he couldn’t be waived today and sent to Charlotte). I will say the same thing here I said (tweeted) to DeCock – He is closer to the org than I so he may know more than I do.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Regardless how close you are to the org, logic still dictates that you don’t bring on a guy who is due 3.1 million if 95K is that important to you.
Carson was put on waivers for the same reason he has played limited minutes in recent games and I don’t think that had anything to do with money.
TOI in Montreal Carson 6:54 Joslin 12:44
TOI against Pittsburgh, Carson scratch, Joslin 17:14
Editing Manager of Canes Country.com
The Carson Situation
Bob,
As I think you probably recall, I am a very strong advocate for Carson. I am very disappointed he was lost to waivers. I do think there was a money consideration involved. It is true that Joslin showed he could clear the crease and was willing to fight if necessary. Carson surely was seen as a #8 defender and that he would spend time in Charlotte if he cleared waivers. In hindsight, it might have been able to accomplish that goal by waiting until after the trade deadline a few days or weeks until teams had their rosters set. Hindsight is always so easy to see of course. My thinking is that if money were not an object, the Hurricanes could have healthy scratched Carson for some games and then moved him down.
As much as I like Carson and wanted him to be a Hurricane, I still thought Joslin’s style was needed. I am very happy with the acquisition of Allen and particularly with being able to trade Samsonov to obtain him.
I would not be surprised to see Carson waived by Calgary at some point this season to be able to move him down to the AHL. I would also not be that surprised to see Carson reclaimed by Carolina if that occurs. Remember that by trading Samsonov his annual salary of $2.8 million comes off the books; so the entire set of transactions amount to virtually a wash.
Doug, appreciate your thoughts. Let me ask you this. Would it make sense for the Canes to keep Carson in Raleigh, knowing that he would be the number eight defenseman?
If the Canes didn’t put together the Allen deal, which has been in the works for a bit, I believe they would have picked up someone else. Either way, it made no sense to keep Carson here. I still don’t think saving money was the primary reason for the decision to put him on waivers. Most teams do not keep eight defensemen, even without the farm club right down the road.
Editing Manager of Canes Country.com
My thinking was not to keep Carson in the pressbox for the rest of the season. I do understand that he was the #8 dman for this season. I did wonder if it would have been a better gamble to wait to waive Carson until next week. After teams have their rosters set at the trade deadline it gets a little harder to take a player on waivers. On the other hand, it’s a moving target because injuries crop up and teams that would not normally have an interest in Carson might take him. Perhaps if they had even waited until the Allen deal was done to waive Carson, it might have worked out. It’s all guesswork and speculation. Calgary may well have had its eyes of Carson for some time, much as I have my list of big, power forwards who I hope Jim Rutherford will scoop up if they ever get waived or made available for trade.
Here’s hoping Carson comes back to the Hurricanes family very quickly.
I did wonder if it would have been a better gamble to wait to waive Carson until next week.
Assigning players to the AHL is not an option after the deadline for players that are waiver eligible, unless they are exposed pre-deadline.
C-Leaguer, I believe, broke this down for us yesterday.
Here we are now...entertain us.
Would that really have benefitted us?
Why would we want to add on a guy who will be paid like a #1 center when we already have one? In this case, we get a top-four D-man at market value with only a one-year contract commitment.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Just look at Pittsburgh… Having two #1 Centers and rolling two highly effective scoring lines is really killing them.
Bryan Allen is a great Defensive D pickup, in my opinion. But I do believe that his salary means it is unlikely that any other impact player (top-4 D or top-6 forward) is added this offseason.
They're also not limited financially to the point that they're closer to the floor than the cap.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
We’re being told that a better ownership wouldn’t place those limitations on the franchise.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
This.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Pittsburgh was near bankruptcy before their amazing Draft run.
Some times you need to spend money to make money. The money spenty on Richards could very well pay dividends in the form of multiple Cup runs (ie: Pittsburgh).
They didn't spend money.
They were just awful enough to get high picks that were cheap AND talented.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
Also...
Is it not a good thing for us to lock up that “impact player” before we have to fight the market for one?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
I think you also have to take into consideration Florida’s being in firesale mode and Carolina being in the thick of the playoff race, nobody wants to be playing meaningless games in late March. The fans don’t show much passion (not that there aren’t any passionate Panthers fans, they exist in every market) but with the right management/ownership in place I don’t see why it couldn’t be a place players want to go. The weather is great through the winter, the women are attractive and scantily clad thanks to the aforementioned warm climate. I’m not exactly rooting for them to become a great franchise, but I wouldn’t mind another rival besides Washington to draw attention to the division.
Things are bad in FLA
I live in Ft. Myers and bought tixs 4th row from glass for 16 bucks a pop on stub hub. The seller??? The Florida Panthers. Wanna guess how much parking was? I rhymes with ZERO dollars! Things are rough there. They have corporate sponsorship for their goals for god sakes…“And thats a Bank Atlantic Goal”. It seems minor league-ish. Actually tickets for the Everblades are more expensive.
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Aren’t there rumors of them being sold and moved this summer? Would explain the fire sale they had today. Dump salary and bring in expiring contracts could make the team more attractive to potential buyers.
Still not a crook!
I’m not sure to be honest. I can’t see hockey succeeding in Sunrise. The arena has a retro feel to it, which is kinda cool (but also kind of old feeling). The team will have a terrible time drawing fans unless they consistently win/compete for the division. It’s south florida. It has all of the problems that California has and then some. The weather is amazing 355 days a year, the arena is not in a place that will bring in foot traffic for tourist and it is not a competitive team.
I remember talking to my roommate a couple months ago. We were watching a Heat game on TV and all we could notice is the amount of empty seats. With the superstars they have playing for them and an arena that is downtown Miami you would think they would sell out every weekend game. not the case.
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
No, I agree. I thought someone was going to buy and then move the team elsewhere.
Still not a crook!
I for some reason want to think you are right. I cant remember. The the ’Yotes are the only ones a really remember there being any serious talk about.
Its hard for me to believe any rumors of moving/contracting a southern team b/c of the bias the northern fans/media heads have against our markets (though the canes get unfairly lumped in with teams such as FL and PHO.
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Current rumors are dealing with Atlanta, but the Coyotes issues could throw a wrench in that. It appears that either Phoenix of Atlanta will be in Winnipeg next season. The NHL would like it to be Atlanta, but if the ownership isn’t situated in Phoenix it will be Phoenix.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Another place the weak state of the Eastern Conference would benefit us.
Despite being in a playoff position, we are in the bottom third of the league, leaving us pretty high on the waiver priority list.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
?? juice
don’t you think that’s a little apples / oranges? no way does JR have the $$ for Richards, even if we could afford to give up the player(s) necessary to acquire him… and obviously Allen will very likely be a big help!! also, jr didn’t say anything which makes pits un-signable!!
My comment was 100% to do with the offseason. No team in their right mind would have paid what Dallas was apparently asking.
It isn’t really apples to oranged… My point dealt with $$ to $$. By JR’s comments, it seems like we might very well lose Joni for nothing and do nothing to replace him due to further budget constraints. That is unless we can win a Cup (I’d be shocked if we made it out of the 1st Round).
This is what perplexes me.
So JR thinks adding Stillman and Allen (minus Samsonov) makes us a cup contender? I think they need to forget Staal and check JR’s head out instead…
by East of Here on Feb 28, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
My guess is PK instructed JR to add whatever pieces he needed, without adding a ton of salary or sacrificing the future (prospects/picks), to simply make the Playoffs.
Not going to make us a Cup contender, but it gives us a better chance to make it in (and therefore make PK a few million in Playoff revenue).
I don’t think he actually thinks that. A GM isn’t going to go in front of the media and say “My view has shifted to getting further in the first round.”
I think it is obvious that his goal is to get as far in the playoffs as we can.
by hurricane9 on Feb 28, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He could have said something to the effect of “we wanted to make a push for the playoffs this year”; or “given that we are currently in the 8th spot, we needed to improve in order to maintain that position…”. But to use the words “contend for the cup this year”, he strains his credibility a bit. Sure, if you somehow manage to get into the playoffs, anything can happen. And I do think this trade has the potential to help us sneak into the playoffs. But I just can’t say we are now “contenders” with a straight face.
by East of Here on Feb 28, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
JR HAS to say that
I agree that “contenders” doesn’t really describe this team BUT, you can’t trade players away for new ones and tell them, “Hey, thanks for agreeing to come here but we don’t really see us getting out of the first round.” I really like what JR has done. I wasn’t overly impressed with the Stillman deal but I think it helped us land Allen…and, if that’s the case than I really like both deals! We got a reliable D-man and lost some dead weight in Samsonov. I liked the skill he had but it never translated into the point production we needed from him.
by DomBooneCaniac on Feb 28, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
The players aren’t stupid. They know the status of the Canes without JR having to tell them. If Allen thinks we are now “contenders”, then they may want to check out his head before cementing the deal. I like the trade, if they feel like a playoff appearance this year is necessary for some reason. It’s just that it wasn’t necessary at the beginning of the year, so…
by East of Here on Feb 28, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
JR said go “deeply in the playoffs” If we can reach the second round the extra revenue will help resign Joni. Thats the way I took it. As long as we do not draw Philly, I could see us stealing a round maybe even two. I’m no more or less impressed with this team than I was the one that went to the Conf. Finals a couple years back. Hell remember the 01-02 year we went to the cup finals? That team had no business getting that far and Detroit reminded us all that that was true. Just make it in with a little momentum and it could spell a strong showing. Thats what we need to resign Joni. (IMHO)
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
…not even gonna bother.
If they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it
by Killswitch on Feb 28, 2011 8:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Please do.
If you’ve got a thought on why JR chose those words, I’d love to hear it. I find myself thinking it was an overly optimistic statement to amp us up for the playoff invoices that will surely be arriving shortly.
by East of Here on Feb 28, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Huh?
What indicates he thinks that?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
His comments in the article.
Specifically, this part:
Rutherford admitted that he has transitioned his thinking from purely rebuilding the team, to trying to contend for the Cup this season.
by East of Here on Feb 28, 2011 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
"Trying to contend=Cup contender?"
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Stranger things have happened.
"It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times..."
by Gramm Matthew Esq. on Feb 28, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
It does seem like a stretch to speak of a Cup run other than for marketing reasons. That said, if Staal gets well and Dalpe gets promoted to replace Samsonov, that plus the addition of Stillman and Allen is a pretty substantial late-season change. The team gets bigger and has enough top 6 forwards for a top 6. The Sutter line with Tlusty and Jokinen looked good. So did Staal with Stillman and Cole. There could be a second line of Ruutu, Skinner and Dalpe and a really solid 4th line. Samson has looked good and again adds size, plus tenacity, puck possession and the ability to put shots on net. Dwyer and LaRose could play mostly on the 4th line and the PK and they are good players in those roles.
There will always be at least one big, tough guy on the ice for the Canes and there may be two, with Gleason, Allen or Harrison, plus Bodie. Joslin looks like a bit of an upgrade in that department, too. Teams may have to think twice about a strategy of physical intimidation.
If everything breaks perfectly, including Cam Ward getting hot, this team could make the playoffs and be reasonably competitive. If they slip into that 7th spot, who knows.
What makes this so hopeful is that it all happened without giving up a high draft pick or a prospect. I’m very pleasantly surprised at what JR was able to accomplish without giving up much. The Stillman trade scared me to death because I thought the Canes might be adding a couple of other players well past their prime and giving up a high pick to boot. Instead, JR landed a huge 30-yr-old former number 4 overall pick on the blue line who with Gleason, Corvo and McBain is a bridge to Dumoulin and Faulk. I think JR has been shrewd, cup run or no. And if the Canes bomb, they’ll be picking in the top 10 and might land a power forward or big defenseman who can help in two or three years.
by curiouscanesfan on Feb 28, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
This. I am liking Stillman more and more…he makes the PP better and that’s the area the Canes need the most improvement.
Allen gives them the big, stay at home D we’ve all been clamoring for. All he cost was Samsonov, who wouldn’t have been re-signed. And he’s signed for next year.
Considering the constraints placed on JR, I think they did well. The Canes got bigger and a little more physical on D, and the forwards got more skilled.
Don’t forget that Stillman fills that first line forward slot that’s been such a mess all year. The other lines are making much more sense now. The Canes offense is going to be more consistent.
So, we PROBABLY now know what are defensive will look like next season. The question now comes up; do the Canes pay 7 defenseman? I also wouldn’t be completely surprised if the Canes kept Joni in hopes of a somewhat successful playoff run and then they don’t resign him during the offseason. Pretty much every defenseman we currently have is due a raise next season, except for McBain.
If Joni is resigned:
Pitkanen – Allen
Gleason – Corvo
McBain – Harrison
Joslin
If Joni is let go:
Gleason – Corvo
Allen – McBain
Joslin – Harrison
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
I find situation #2 likely… With the slight possibility that Faulk makes his way up to the Checkers and eventually to the Canes.
My hopes would be they take Joni’s money and add to the offense… But it is probably more likely that the money is just banked.
Seeing as Allen is a left shot, the second option does seem feasible.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
+1 I luv this trade
I loved Sergei when he was acquired on waivers and many thought his career at least in the NHL and the USA was all but over but it was not. To get a great defenseman like Allen for an aging winger that was basically going from line to line as a fill in is a great deal. I love this Joslin kid too he looked good the past couple of games he has started for the canes. Agree the second scenario seems way more likely b.c. Rosey and Cole are free agents as well and Joni has shown very little in my book to validate his big contract sense being acquired. Joni is a great player with all the talent and skills in the world but he just never has the fire, the it factor and he has never lived up to his draft billing.
The trade allows Carolina to have Allen this year and the next which is huge b.c. as my fellow Caniacs posted above D-men are going to be hard to come by in free agency this year and if Joni hits the market the Canes are not going to break the bank to keep him.
I actually prefer scenario two it just seems a better setup from a financial as well as a team standpoint. Gleason & Corvo is our best defense line and Allen McBain is a solid #2 plus Harrison has looked great this year and he would be way easier to keep then Joni and even if Harrison walks we still have a ton of NHL ready guys in the minors such as Rodney whom I would luv to see earn a starting spot with us next year and the minute the Flames put Carson on waivers look for the Canes to pounce on him to bring him back home.
Go Canes loving this trade.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Feb 28, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
2nd option.. all day.
"It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times..."
by Gramm Matthew Esq. on Feb 28, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
That 1st option looks much, much stronger, but more expensive. If the funds are there, you can’t deny that.
Yes, it does look better on paper; but would the Canes be willing to dish out the paper to put that defense on the ice (and one in the press box)?
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
I still think it comes down to how much playoff revenue (if any) we get this year. If harrison or joslin start the year in the A we could still bring them up in an emergency (injury) w/o waivers right? Then we wouldn’t have to carry 7 next year. (i’m might have this wrong)
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure neither could start the season in the AHL without passing through waivers and I’m not sure they would even sign two-way contracts with the Canes.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
I forgot the two way contract part of it,lol (mind is in baseball mode right now)
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Remember that Harrison is a RFA after this year, so he could potentially be gone too. I think Bryan Rodney will be in the mix to make the team next year due to his scoring abilities especially if Joni leaves.
Still not a crook!
I think Harrison is back. He’s played well this season for us, but I still believe there are not many teams looking to add him. Most teams would have him as a 7th defenseman, we’re about the only team to guarantee him a full-time job.
Also, I believe Rodney is a UFA this offseason and might move on. 2 years ago, JR basically said he had a position on the Canes and then wasn’t even the 1st call-up. I don’t believe he would say anything negative, but I do believe he feels a little slighted and will go to another organization.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
Not likely.
Teams just don’t go after low-end RFAs very often.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
Salary taken on
So, for those wondering it appears as if the Canes have taken on an additional $211,000 of salary for the remainder of the season.
To come to this amount I’m assuming 20 of 82 games are remaining to be played. The money going out is: White – $2,999,995; Samsonov – $2,800,000; Carson – $105,000 (AHL Salary); Carter – $725,000; Samson’s AHL salary ($105,000). The money coming in is: Stillman – $3,500,000; Allen – $3,100,000; Joslin – $500,000; and Samson – $500,000 (NHL Salary). Total spent on the outgoing players would have been $1,642,000 and total spent on the incoming players is $1,853,000.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
However...
Is it not worth mentioning that that money is being spent more efficiently in that we cleared a roster spot and cleared a healthy scratch?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
There’s no analysis up there. It’s just fact. If you want to say it’s being spent more efficiently fine. I’m only trying to add information to the conversation.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Word.
I wasn’t criticizing, just mentioning.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 28, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Nice post C-Leauger. That shows to me they expect a decent ROI with a decent playoff push.
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
A no brainer… I like it. Good GM move.
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
It’s definitely a cost effective move and it’s most certainly not a lot given up. I still think the question is about was it good to spend this money and these assets on this season or would it have been better to spend it elsewhere. I’ve talked that one to death so I’ll just wait and see what happens at this point and cheer the team along in the process.
Either way, JR has given himself the chance to succeed quite nicely, which he always seems to be able to do. The man is truly one of the best GMs in the league.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
How weird must it be for Sammy to play his first game as a Panther in the RBC center? If I were Mo, I’d match up his former line with his current line as often as possible and have the guys shout his name hoping to get some easy takeaways.
Still not a crook!
I do too. Being traded has to suck, but then you have it rubbed in your face two nights later. I would ask to be scratched. He is going to have a hard time learning a system and then having to play his old team that gave his career a second chance. He must be going through a tough time tonight
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
I actually hope the fans will give him a nice standing ovation for the time spent here. While I am not a fan of Sammy, he has had good games for us and scored some big goals. I hope we all show him some “southern hospitality” and thank him for his years of service.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
I do too. And I will assume that they will. I’ve always loved the skill Sammy can show but I did feel like he was taking TOI that a younger guy could have. He was just “there” for me. I do like that fact that he never complained about ice time or being moved around and seemed to be a stand up guy. I have more respect for the way he handled himself off the ice than on it. I never questioned his heart or anything, I just think that he needed to be on a top line to get space but couldn’t really produce enough to warrant being on a top line (kind of a catch 22)
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Samsonov will probably play a few shifts on each of the Canes’ lines tomorrow night by mistake. He’s shuttled from Canes’ line to line for so long it will be hard to break that indoctrination. He’ll need a period of de-mo-ification.
by curiouscanesfan on Feb 28, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
What did Edmenton get for Penner today? 1st, 2nd and the same defenseman offered in the proposed Whitney deal? We could have had Dustin Penner for Ray Whitney basically straight up!
Still not a crook!
There are homers in Clayton that still wouldnt take that deal.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 28, 2011 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
The number of people who still have love for Whitney after last season baffle me.
Still not a crook!
That dude screw the org where he resurrected his career. No one else wanted him after Detroit bought him out.
it always burns within
the downward spiral never ends
when driven into sin
your salvation's found in a sinner's deed
by Douchebag St John on Feb 28, 2011 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
agreed. Whitney is on my Sh!t list for life now. I remember the heated convo’s last year. There were quite a few of us that where P’d off at him after the deadline (C-leaguer and I among the most vocal), others that thought there was no way he wouldn’t resign. He really took us all for a ride.
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Have I mentioned how much less upset I am at this deadline than the last?
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
You didn’t need to. Last year was the worst. The one before we trade Justin Williams for Erik Cole (in a round about way). I was less than thrilled about that one as well. It’s nice to have some hope after a deadline,lol.
by CarolinaCanes on Feb 28, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
I’m actually pretty pleased with our day. I have always thought that we could use an extra Def minded D-Man. I wish we were in a little better position right now to where we could say we will do crazy things because we have a legit shot at the cup. Given our current standing and the way some other teams below us are playing now I think JR ran this perfectly.
Remember what happened with NJ last year? They went and grabbed Kovalchuk for a playoff run, and got knocked out 1st round. We could have done that same thing, the go for broke blockbuster for Richards or something. We would probably end up where they did too.
by Gunning For The Cup on Feb 28, 2011 7:58 PM EST reply actions
It's also widely regarded as a crappy FA year.
Pitkanen might just be one of those guys that needs a change of scenery every so often to keep his play up.
All of that means his value will be higher to other teams than it is to Carolina.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the Greensboro Coliseum rafters in 1997 didn't see any of this coming.
Looking at a possible future
With the trades that have already occured for the Hurricanes, here is an idea of what next year’s lineup could look like. There are obviously the big questions of which free agents do we resign and how much. I’m made a few assumptions, but I think they are realistic. Here is what the lines might be next season and the salary figures that go along with them.
Last season, we started the season basically paying 24 players (I am not including Sanguinetti or Pogge). Two of those players were buyout; Kaberle and Brind’Amour. We also had a few extras due to injuries and one-way contracts and extra players for Finland. But any way; we had 14 forwards, 6 defenseman, 2 goalies, and the 2 buyouts for a $50.6 million cap hit and $47.1 million salary.
Here is what COULD be for the start of next season. I have assumed that LaRose is let go, Cole is resigned to a 1 year deal worth $2.8M, Jussi is resigned to a 2 year deal worth $6.5M, and Sutter is resigned to a 3 year deal worth $6.75M. Dwyer, Tlusty, Bodie, Harrison, and Joslin are all resigned to modest $250K raises. Boychuk, Dalpe, and Samson are all in the lineup and Bowman is the 13th forward. And the big assumption; Joni is resigned to a 3 year deal worth $16.5M.
Boychuk – Staal – Cole
Skinner – Ruutu – Dalpe
Tlusty – Sutter – Jokinen
Samson – Dwyer – Bodie
Bowman
Pitkanen – Allen
Gleason – Corvo
McBain – Harrison
Joslin
Ward – Peters
Both of the buyouts would come off the books. So with this lineup, our cap hit would be $50 million and our actual salary for 22 players would be $48.99 million. That less than $2 million more in actual salary than the previous year. If we don’t carry 1 extra forward and defenseman, it really becomes almost the same. I guess what I’m trying to say is that resigning Pitkanen might actually be realistic if the UFA’s don’t expect outrageous raises. Of course it could also means that PK could let Pitkanen leave, sign a “cheaper” defenseman and actually spend less money than he did this season and the team might/should be a little bit better. By no means does this definitely become a real force in the Eastern Conference, but they should be in playoff contention or maybe better if some of the kids play better than expected.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
PackPride17 Lines
The lines shown by PackPride17 look accurate and workable to me. Obviously, Jim Rutherford has been clear that both Boychuk and Dalpe need to work on their “NHL conditioning.” That term sees to mean having the fitness of a player such as Skinner or Samson; or a combination of increased strength and endurance. I would like to see the Hurricanes bulk up, but other than finding another young, fast, physical fourth line center to replace Dwyer (and I really don’t see that happening), I can’t see who else would be replaced.
Dalpe/Skinner/Ruutu line
I think Skinner wants to play center, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a line of Dalpe/Skinner/Ruutu next season.
I know most everybody here really like Tlusty and he is playing well; but I would much rather see a “young, big, fast winger” to play with Staal and Jokinen, Boychuk & Cole moved down to play with Sutter, Tlusty on the 4th line with Dwyer & Samson, and Bodie carried as the 13th forward. Then I think this team could be a real “force” in the East, but Mo would actually have to play his 4th line more than 6 minutes a night. But that’s just a pipe dream, because I know the Canes wouldn’t spend that type of money to acquire that type of player.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
by PackPride17 on Feb 28, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t want to nitpick your line assignments….but why do you (and Maurice apparently) have Jokinen on the 3rd line ?
He would be on my 1st or maybe 2nd. I fell like I must be missing something.
by drifterscape on Feb 28, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
Agree about Jokinen deserving a higher line. The counter argument is that the Sutter-Tlusty-Jokinen line looked really good in its brief appearance.
by curiouscanesfan on Mar 1, 2011 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
Paul Branecky's Projected Lines
http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/depthchart.htm?dcid=12
Stillman/Staal/Cole
Jokinen/Ruutu/LaRose
Skinner/Sutter/Tlusty
Samson/Dwyer/Bodie
Assuming Stillman and LaRose are not resigned and then filling in Dalpe and Boychuk:
Boychuk/Staal/Cole
Dalpe/Ruutu/Jokinen
Skinner/Sutter/Tlusty
Samson/Dwyer/Bodie
I don't mind it...
But I would say that having Boychuk and Dalpe pre-slotted into top-six roles scares me a bit. I understand there will eventually come a time when they can’t learn much more on the AHL level, but there is just not a lot of veteran insurance (even young veteran insurance) in those lines. Tlusty is really the only bottom-six player there that would reasonably be a slide-up candidate if Boychuk and Dalpe struggle, unless you were going to swap Sutter and Dalpe.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 1, 2011 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
I like Skinner with Sutter and Tlusty. Good experience and may get him matched up against slightly less dominating opponents which should free up ice/time for him to operate. Plus, Sutter is a good passer so that should help. Would still love to see Stillman – Staal – Skinner.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Boychuk and Dalpe better turn into NHL regulars next year. Otherwise the “rebuild” isnt looking so good, and we’ll regret not trading them when they still looked promising.
I suppose it is self-defining as a point of discussion. It’s like saying, if Boychuk and Dalpe are busts as players, they will be busts as players and we’ll regret not trading them. That is really no different than saying if Boychuk and Dalpe play up to their potential and each score 25 goals next season, we’ll be doing a happy dance for not trading them. It is clear that the Hurricanes organization has put tremendous hope and responsibility on Boychuk and Dalpe for next season because it seems two top six positions will be opened up for them. Even if either or both Dalpe and Boychuk are not fully formed as top six players next season, and I believe they will be great, I don’t see the Hurricanes being sorry they have them on the team. It could potentially take one or both of them an additional year of moving between the Hurricanes and the Checkers; but I seriously doubt it. I think both could come up tonight and given the minutes on balanced top six lines, they’d be excellent.
I’m curious what makes you think the Canes’ organization is opening two top six spots for Dalpe and Boychuk next year? I think it’s 50-50 whether the organization will sign cast-offs or make waiver claims again. I see no reason to think Maurice wants Dalpe and Boychuk on the team, period. He can get JR to provide alternatives. O’Sullivan, Carter and Bodie are three recent examples, not to mention Cory Stillman. I’ve seen nothing remotely resembling a vote of confidence in Boychuk or Dalpe by anybody in the Canes’ organization.
by curiouscanesfan on Mar 1, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Jim Rutherford's Comments
I think Jim Rutherford’s comments when Cory Stillman was signed are telling. He praised Samson for being the most NHL ready. He then talked about Boychuk, Dalpe, and Bowman in particular as being part of the future for the Hurricanes. I do think this year is instructive that if Jim Rutherford doesn’t feel convinced Boychuk and Dalpe are ready for top six minutes next season, he will find alternatives. Bowman also could be in that mix. I haven’t gone back to collect all the previous votes of confidence, but there is an earlier fanpost I wrote that contains some of the very positive remarks about Boychuk and Dalpe.
I’ve heard really positive things from JR about Boychuk and Dalpe in the past, but what I hear lately is “Definitely not now – maybe someday.” The strong positives are ancient history. The future is farther away now than it was last summer.
Mo is under contract for next year. You can count on him to play any prospect who does make the team next season on the 4th line and to play the 4th line a max of 6 minutes per night. I don’t have the sense that JR is basing any part of his strategy on getting Boychuk or Dalpe into the Canes’ top 6 next year or ever.
Mo will play prospects only if they are on one-way contracts or if by rule or waiver risk JR can’t send them back to junior or the AHL. That’s it. LaRose is living proof that Mo would rather play anybody in the top 6 besides Boychuk or Dalpe. We’ll see LaRose’s jersey in the rafters at RBC first.
by curiouscanesfan on Mar 1, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
"You can count on him to play any prospect who does make the team next season on the 4th line and to play the 4th line a max of 6 minutes per night."
Right…just like McBain at 19:00 a night. Or a 20-year old Sutter at 16:00+ a night last year. Or, hell, Skinner at 16:25 this year at 18 years old. Did you mean Boychuk, who’s played nearly 11 minutes a game while he’s been up this year (yeah, that’s about 50% more than you stated)?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 2, 2011 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
Eyes on the Prize
This is a rare moment, indeed, because I believe AD has this one exactly right.
When they’re ready, and I mean ready, they are our future. I’m sure JR had numerous opportunities to score a good RFA #1 potential D-man if he’d only given up a first and one of those kids…and he didn’t. So, to me, that means they’ve passed the org’s collective sniff test.
So now it’s all about development. We have the rare luxury of NOT needing to rush any of these kids. They are our future, and the more confidence we can install in them at this point, the better.
That’s the plan. And the future is bright.
Here we are now...entertain us.
Don't disagree.
But slotting young, inexperienced players high with nobody to catch them if they fall can be a dangerous situation (See Panthers, Carolina.)
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 1, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with that statement. That is why I’ve been saying all year for the Canes to get those 2 guys NHL experience (I actually think we along with C-Leaguer have had multiple “discussions” about this). I understand everybody wants to make the playoffs, I do too; but I would have sacrificed this season to have a much more “ready” group next year.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
But can't you see...
That we’re working other guys (McBain, Skinner, Sutter, Carson/Joslin, etc.) into “readiness” by keeping them up and playing them in significant roles while the team works towards to the playoffs is valuable in and of itself? Moreso than allowing Boychuk and Dalpe to plug along towards an 85-point season and a near playoff miss?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 2, 2011 2:19 AM EST up reply actions
IF, IF, and another IF
IF…Joni picks up his game the next few weeks, shows some drive and effort, and stops making bonehead plays then I’m glad we kept him, regardless if we keep him next year.
IF…Allen stays healthy and plays halfway decent in his own end then I’m glad we got rid of Samsonov for him.
IF…Samson plays in the top 9 and Rosie is relegated to the fourth line then I have no problem with Rosie not being moved.
Time will tell, as it is with all trades. GO CANES!!!
"I’m tired of being a fringe team and needing a lot of things to go right to make the playoffs." - C-Leaguer
Trade Tracker and Take on the Samsonov/Allen Trade
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=554511
Here’s the take on the trade by commentators at www.nhl.com.
The commentators see the trade as excellent for the Hurricanes. If Allen can stay healthy, he could be the kind of big, physical stay at home defenseman who’ll hit and fight, when needed, that many of us have been pleading for Jim Rutherford to obtain. A day later, I am still sad about Carson. It appears Jim Rutherford had to decide whether to keep Carson all year at Carolina or waive him down to Charlotte based on the CBA (as explained in a prior post I had not seen).
You feel sad for Carson, but I feel bad for Samsanov. I think this trade had to happen, but what an awkward position for Sami to have to go to the visiting locker room tonight and then play agaist team mates he just practiced with. At least during most trades you have weeks or even months before visiting your old team.
by hotchipsnsalsa on Mar 1, 2011 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
Awkward?
Why? It’s part of the business. He gets paid millions of dollars a year to play a game. Gerald Wallace is far more important to the Bobcats franchise than Samsonov, but he’ll be visiting Charlotte with the Blazers very shortly himself.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 1, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Wallce is a totally different situation.
by hotchipsnsalsa on Mar 1, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
So are you crying for him about how "awkward" it will be?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 2, 2011 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
On the other hand, Samsonov knew he didn’t fit the Canes’ plans and was finished here in a couple of months anyway. Things worked out so that he didn’t have to hop a plane to get to another city in time for a first game for the Panthers. He has to play against the Canes, but he got another night in his own home.
I feel bad for Samsonov because he’s very good on the power play and could have helped a playoff team in that role.
by curiouscanesfan on Mar 1, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
For a guy so good on the power play...
16 PP points in his last 131 games for a guy who got regular run on the unit doesn’t seem very productive.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 2, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Samsonov
0.44 ppg player with 0.34% of his goals scored on the PP, good enough for 6th on the team in PP goals.
Aren’t statistics fun? :-)
Here we are now...entertain us.
They are.
And those statistics do indicate he’s much better on the PP, but better than bad still isn’t saying much. And 6th on the team in goals doesn’t seem so hot when he’s actually fifth on the team in total PP minutes among forwards. I’m not saying PP play isn’t one of the “strengths” of his overall game, but even those strengths don’t rank as “very good” at this point in his career.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Mar 2, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Samsonov’s PP numbers have slumped since I last looked. He’s scored 4 power play goals, which at one time this season would have made him the number 2 goal scorer on a lot of power plays in the league.
Current statistics show Samsonov with 1.34 goals per 60 minutes on the power play and 2.23 points per 60. That goal scoring rate would put him 7th on the Canes if he were still here. Surprisingly, Stillman’s 2.3 points per 60 minutes on the power play would rank him 10th on the Canes and his 0.46 goals per 60 minutes would rank low as well. Stillman is excellent on the power play but it doesn’t show in his stats this season.
by curiouscanesfan on Mar 2, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
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