Enough already...let's look ahead to 2011-2012
by Capt. Stinky on Feb 4, 2011 6:43 AM EST
Email
PrintLet's face it -- even if this team does something spectacular in the last two dozen or so games and slides into the playoffs, there's no way we're getting out of the first round. I think now's a good time to break things down into assets and liabilities for next year, which is one where we should have enough young/old talent to make a run.
1. Coaching -- powerplay has been maddeningly inconsistent with no visible scheme that makes sense. That's coaching. Faceoffs have been a problem since day 1, with 1-2 players making inroads, but nothing else. That's coaching. Defense has looked awful, making the same mistakes over and over. That's coaching. If we're cool with that, then keep Mo and company. If not, well...let's be serious. Coach Mo has THREE top shelf, grade A all-stars on his team, and he's still a .500 coach on the borderline of being out of the playoffs for the second straight season. Is that acceptable to the franchise?
2. Defensive lineup -- it's just not cutting the mustard. When your most consistent defender all year long is Jay Harrison, you've got problems. Corvo is playing really well right now, and is a decent complimentary first pairing guy IF...his teammate is up to the challenge. I hate to say it, but Gleason has been sub-par all year this year. There is no way he is living up to the A on his sweater. I just don't know what's wrong with him, but he's playing more like a second or third pairing guy rather than a first. McBain, Harrison have potential, but Pitkanen and White don't really fit into the future. Bring up Carson, et. al. or trade for some fellas.
3. Forwards -- So very happy Dalpe and Boychuk have made the transition; now let's keep them here. Need to find a way to transition 2-3 more guys up as well. Jettison LaRose, Cole, Samsonov and -- I hate to say it -- Ruutu while we have the chance. The CONSISTENT forwards/centers we have, i.e. Staal, Skinner, Sutter, Jokinen, Bodie, Dwyer, plus Tlusty and his flashes of brilliance amidst injury, are decent to build around.
This team has made some great strides this season, but had its fair share of steps backwards, and I think we as a franchise/fanbase can expect a higher grade of talent on the ice next year. GO CANES!!!
52 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Coaching
How can coaching or the lack thereof be responsible for players winning faceoffs? I’d always figured it was a skill developed with strength and practice. It’s a weakness that has festered for a few years…the Canes could have signed Malholtra for approximately the same salary as Larose, for one example. Even our old friend E. Belanger was picked up for under a million, I believe.
Getting Carter helps…management must recognize that they did not improve that area in the off season, and no one from Charlotte has helped to my knowledge.
Your comment on Gleason not earning the ‘A’ is, well, not your finest moment. The poor guy has had to stand up for a team bullied most of the year by bigger squads. Without Gleason, the Canes would be even worse off.
Sory, Capt….I see this as managements mistake.
management = blameworthy, good point!
"Tough to be a Maple Leaf these days." - Terry Koshan, Toronto Sun, 1/31/11
Your comment on Gleason not earning the ‘A’ is, well, not your finest moment.
I’m not going to knock Gleason here, but I don’t think the comments are unfounded. Where is the Tim Gleason who was one of if not the best defender for the USA squad in the Olympics? With the “A” comes extra responsibility. I like Tim Gleason and he’s a work horse, but some times guys like that can take on too many things. They don’t always no when to say no. This is one of the reasons I wasn’t completely behind the idea of giving Gleason the “A”. I would rather him focus on his game as opposed to all that comes along with being the “A”.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Personally
If i was the GM or the onwer…I’d send Rowe back to down bring JD up from Charlotte…and get some solid and proved D-men to suppliment Harrison,Gleason,McBain,Corvo…but hey I’m a fan…so what do i know…but what i suggested …is just that…a suggestion or an idea…Have a safe week end…
The moment you write off the Hurricanes,
they make you look bad !!
Those are my thoughts too
No surprise here, but I think Mo must go. But if JR isn’t going to do that because of his strange love affair with Mo, at least bring JD up to the big club. I’ve been telling my husband for months that if this team squeeks into the playoffs there is no way they’ll get out of the first round with the D corp they have. Not to say they are bad players, but I just don’t think we have the right combination of defensemen for this team. Cam gets hammered with shots every night like it is an All Star game where no defense is played. Everyone sees what Toronto’s D did last night during that 5 on 3? How about some of that to help out Cam? Cam is going to have average nights and our D should be able to help him win those games.
I’ve been telling my husband for months that if this team squeeks into the playoffs there is no way they’ll get out of the first round with the D corp they have.
How does a coach fix that?
Also, why take JD out of Charlotte were he’s doing a fantastic job? Developing players is probably the most important job in this organization for the next couple of years. If Daniels is doing that well why take him out of that role?
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
My comment about Mo has nothing to do with the D – just a second observation. He’s just not a winning coach – look as his record across his career, average. The Canes gave Lavi much less wiggle room (personality probably had something to with that too). My comment was if you don’t want to make a coaching change to try and light a fire under these guys and perhaps get a system the current team can consistently play, than you need to get the right D-men for whatever crappy system the Canes do have because 30/40+ shots, and great scoring changes, on Cam a night isn’t going to get the team to the playoffs. I don’t like taking Daniels away from what he’s doing with the young guys either, but what’s the alternative? Keep the big club as is and continue to struggle every year going forward? This IS Mo hockey. If you think otherwise, prepare to be disappointed.
"Continue to struggle?"
REALLY? Maurice has this team right in the thick of the playoff chase in spite of a severe talent deficit at the middle and—particularly—at the bottom of the roster. I see no reason why the youth on this team won’t continue to develop and improve under his leadership.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 7, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
talent deficit? as in:
Cam Ward
Eric Staal
Jeff Skinner
Brandon Sutter
Jussi Jokinen
Tuomo Ruutu
These guys make up a talent DEFICIT?!?!?
"Tough to be a Maple Leaf these days." - Terry Koshan, Toronto Sun, 1/31/11
Reading is FUNdamental.
a severe talent deficit at the middle and—particularly—at the bottom of the roster.
With six skaters (and no defensemen), we ain’t gonna win a lot of games.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 9, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
burp
Paul Maurice is the all-time winningest coach in 'Canes history
by Capt. Stinky on Feb 10, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Time for a change
Bring some of the young guys up and give them the chance to make a difference…there seems to be much talent just south of the captial….let the little dogs bark
I don’t disagree with 90% of your assessment, however I don’t see a team with a “Budget” getting rid of Mo and still having to pay him next year. You take a chance of alienating fans / ticket holders by trading away fan favorites. That is why Ruutu and LaRose will be back. The next two weeks will determine if the asset sale will begin. I still think Joni and Sammy are on the block if “The price is right”.
Shoot the puck!!!!!!
great point about fan favorites, that's such a tough call, rosie is well loved
"Tough to be a Maple Leaf these days." - Terry Koshan, Toronto Sun, 1/31/11
Trading Ruutu is interesting
Ruutu could bring back a decent return, but I would prefer to see the Canes get more Ruutu like players who can hit as opposed to fewer. As much as I like LaRose and as much as I think he brings a lot to the table in his role the team may be better off with a bigger third line guy who can hit more. Imagine if Ruutu could be paired with Dustin Brown (only bringing Brown up because it’s someone we’ve been discussing on the board, could be any similar player). The team then takes on a very interesting dynamic where it’s both fast and physical which would make them difficult to play against and able to control the third period. It’s also a style that translates well in to the playoffs.
Personally, I would love to see Cole, Sergei and LaRose moved out this season so we can see Dalpe and Boychuk for the rest of the season and then a rotation of Bowman, Samson and Osala. I’m not particularly high on any of those three, but it would be nice to see what we’ve got there. Osala at the very least may be a better option than Dwyer on the fourth line, especially if paired with Carter and Bodie.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
what would you do with dwyer then?
"Tough to be a Maple Leaf these days." - Terry Koshan, Toronto Sun, 1/31/11
by Capt. Stinky on Feb 4, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
You let him go.
He’s imminently replaceable.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 7, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I really wouldn’t be surprised to see Ruutu traded before his big $4.4 million season next year. Kostopoulos and Alberts went the same way. JR has a tendency to do that.
Say, if Boston was willing to give up Toronto’s 1st Round this year for Ruutu + our 3rd Rounder. That is a deal I would probably make and one that doesn’t seem too ridiculous on either ends. We get a top-5 guy (Larsson, Hamilton, Siemens all future top-pairing D in this range) who can play in a year or so and they get a solid banging Center/Winger for the next year.
Why would Boston
want to take on a guy like Ruutu when they already have a cheaper and younger version of him in Brad Marchand while giving up a cost controlled pick that could possibly net them their future PP QB in Larsson or another high end scorer so they can let Ryder/Wheeler walk
by The Gottfather on Feb 6, 2011 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Tuomo Ruutu… 6’2", 200+ lbs. 211 Hits (2nd in NHL)
Brad Marchand… 5’9", 190 lbs. 64 Hits (7th on the Bruins alone)
Unless Marchand miraculously sprouts 5 more inches he will never be the impact physical player that Ruutu is. I submit that ANY team in the NHL could use Ruutu, to think differently is foolish.
Also, there is no way Boston picks up Larsson with Toronto’s pick. This isn’t going to be another top-3 pick. Unfortunately for Boston, the Laffs are playing much better and will likely finish at the worst 5th from last. You can kiss Larsson, Couturier, Landeskog, and Nugent-Hopkins goodbye.
Ruutu
Trading Ruutu would be ridiculous, he performs quite well, and is the heart of what team toughness we have. Like I said elsewhere on here, I think ditching Cole means screwing up Staal, so we have to keep him too. Samsonov and Rosie are expendable, so is Dwyer. I still would argue that, at 2m or less Rosie is a good player to have around.
Also, there is not all that much exciting about our prospects below Dalpe and Boychuck. Masumoto is OK, but never more than a 4th liner. We’ve seen a lot of Samson. Osala still seems like an unknown.
I LOVE Ruutu, don't get me wrong...
I’m just wondering if he could get us a solid defenseman in a trade, and whether that would help us win games moreso than Ruutu’s presence would.
"Tough to be a Maple Leaf these days." - Terry Koshan, Toronto Sun, 1/31/11
I am not sure what his value would be. The bigger problem is what defensemen are available… to go after a pending UFA you wouldnt need to trade Ruutu. And who is shopping D who are not pending UFAs?
If we want a real impact D, he’d have to come from a bottom feeder selling off parts… no one in Edmonton looks good, really, and no one else out west is in surrender mode. From the east, Ottawa, Toronto, and NYI are the dance partners… Phillips is good, but would he want to come to Raleigh long term? Beauchemin maybe, but I bet he’d come a lot cheaper than say Ruutu. I doubt Streit is available. There just arent all that many options.
What about trading Cole and Carson (both UFA’s) to Philly for Matt Carle? There has been talk about Cole going to join Lavi in Philly. Carle departure could be somewhat filled by the other Philly D-Men. They could put Pronger/Meszajos, Timonem/Coburn, and O’Donnell/Carson; that still a pretty good defense. Carle is probably Joni-lite, but it would make Joni more expendable to bring in another asset. And it would work money-wise for Philly, leaving them room to still try and find a goalie.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
by PackPride17 on Feb 4, 2011 10:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Just to go back to the Original post
What makes you think this team isn’t capable of getting out of the first-round if they make the playoffs? This is the same team Cam Ward carried on his shoulders two seasons ago in the late stretch of the season, in which we went much deeper than anyone expected. Same team that surprised a lot of people (not me) the year we won the cup. This team has a chance to go places in the playoffs anytime you have Cam Ward in net. Goaltending wins Stanley Cups.. maybe not always a direct-reason but a lot of times it is.. but if you don’t have somewhat solid goaltending, you’re done.
Goaltending wins Stanley Cups
Goaltending used to win cups. It’s now more about defense and depth, two things the Canes lack in some respects. Cam’s good, but he’s not good enough to overcome the deficit’s elsewhere and carry the team even to the conference finals.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
I feel embarressed for you
2010 – Chicago (A.Niemi 16W 6L 2.63GAA .910 sv%)
(DEF – Boynton, Campbell, Hjalmarsson, Johnsson, Keith, Seabrook Sopel)
2009 – Pittsbrugh (M. Fleury 16W 8L 2.61GAA .908 sv%)
(DEF – Letang, Goligoski, Gonchar, Orpik, Scuderi, Gill, Eaton, Boucher)
2008 – Detroit (C.Osgood 14W 4L 1.55GAA .930 sv%)
(DEF – Downey, Lilja, Stuart, Lebda, Rafalski, Chelios,Ericsson, Quincey, Lidstrom, Kronwall)
2007 – Anaheim (J.Giguere 13W 4L 1.97GAA .930sv%)
(DEF – Jackman, O’Donnell, Beauchemin, Pronger, Niedermayer, Dipenta, Huskins, Hnidy)
2006 – Carolina (C.Ward 15W 8L 2.14GAA .920sv%)
(DEF – Babchuk, Commodore, Hedican, Hutchinson, Kaberle, Richmond, Tverdovsky, Wallin, Wesley)
lets face it.. you don’t need have have a flashy defense core to win a Stanley Cup. This team proved it in 2006. None of those defensive were dominant defensemen in the league that season. Just did things right when it mattered most. Ward stood on his head to make some incredible saves, just like two seasons ago against New Jersey and Boston. Good goaltending is crucial to winning.
I actually think those defenses (except maybe Carolina’s) was pretty good.
Keith & Seabrook had excellent years last year and Hammer & Campbell aren’t bad either. Even Sopel was pretty responsible.
Gonchar was a pretty good offensive defenseman. Orpik is a good defensive defenseman. Scuds & Gill had a very good playoffs, they really shut down opposing teams.
Neids & Pronger are unbelievable defenseman. Beauchemin & O’Donnell play pretty solidly.
Goaltending is important to make the big save, but a solid defense (like most of the above) really limits the number of shots the goalie will have to save.
The All-STAAL game is going to be CAMtastic!
by PackPride17 on Feb 7, 2011 6:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You just destroyed your own point, in my opinion.
Niemi = Mediocre goalie
Fleury = Good goalie, but not top-5 in the league
Osgood = Sub-par goalie
Giguere = Sub-par goalie
C. Ward = Best goalie of the bunch, but still barely top-5 in league.
If goaltending won Cups, the NY Rangers and Vancouver should be shoe-ins at least for the 2nd-3rd round every year. The fact that Philly got their with Leighton + an amazing defense is a huge knock to that theory.
you're forgetting
Luongo is a choke-artist in playoffs consistently.. Lundqvist.. well NY has never had the offense to help him out enough.. Did you not see Niemi’s season stats? Fleury has been to the cup finals two years in a row.. Osgood has led Detroit to victory on numerous occasions in his career.. Giguere won the Conn Smythe in 2002, during his prime, he was a top 5 goalie in the league. Jersey would never have won a cup, let alone gotten deep without Brodeur. In 07.. only reason the Senators got where they were was the play of Emery. A good defense core certainly helps a goalie for less shots, but goalies like Fleury and Osgood.. and even Ward have shown in the playoffs that it doesn’t matter how many shots get on net..
Lundqvist.. well NY has never had the offense to help him out enough
And you’ve just proven my point. Kthankbye.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
proved your point how?
when the talk is about goaltending and defense? what does offense have to do with anything.. Lundqvist puts up great numbers, but NY doesn’t put the puck in the net enough.. A Stanley Cup champion consists of.. either a decent or fairly strong offense.. decent or strong offense.. and always strong goaltending.. what aren’t you getting.. teams will great offenses and defense faulter with poor goaltending.. like the Vancouver’s and San Jose’s year after year.. I’ll back up my point with stats just give me some guys.. just wait
Why am I not shocked that someone with a pot leaf as their avatar and chron in their name can’t keep up?
Let me spell it out for you:
Here’s my original post:
Goaltending used to win cups. It’s now more about defense and depth
To which you disagreed only for you to write:
Lundqvist.. well NY has never had the offense to help him out enough
Which means that even though NY has great goaltending they don’t have the depth to win a cup which was the point of my original post.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Perhaps next time you address someone don’t start off with “I feel embarrassed for you”. It’s impolite.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
But two wrongs make a right, huh?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 9, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
burp
Paul Maurice is the all-time winningest coach in 'Canes history
by Capt. Stinky on Feb 10, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Since it seems as if my comments have been misinterpreted, likely because I wasn’t clear, allow me to clarify. There are two issues I have with Chronryan. The first, and primary is illicit drug use. Now, I’m no prude and I would never condemn occasional marijuana use. As a matter of fact I supported the yes on 19 campaign financially even though I don’t live in California. That said, if you’ve gone out of your way to not only have an avatar but have it of a pot leaf and to put chron in your screen name, you’re probably a chronic user. I won’t suffer the foolishness of an alcoholic and no will I suffer the foolishness of a chronic drug user. It’s not good for me or the user. Perhaps I’ve hastily judged Chronryan, but I doubt it.
The comment about incivility was simply a tip. This board is fun because people disagree with one another and all sides of discussions are expressed. Without basic civility this would quickly descend in to a Keith Olberman vs Bill O’Reilly situation and would cease to be fun.
I’m not trying to return disrespect towards me with disrespect towards another person, I’m simply choosing to not respect someone who doesn’t respect themselves enough to make better life decisions. As I can see how the former could be confused for the latter I thought it was worthwhile to clarify.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Stats
Let’s take the numbers you’ve got up above for the goaltenders and work backwards to see what that tells us.
Niemi had a 0.910 and gave up 2.63 gaa. First, that Sv% isn’t all that good, it’s fairly middle of the pack. Second, given the GAA and SV percentage Niemi faced about 29 shots on goal a night. Now, this is against good offensive teams in Vancouver, Philly, San Jose and Nashville. I wonder who kept that shot total down against those teams? Was it the defense. Also, with a 2.63 gaa the Hawks had to have depth on offense as they had to score at least three a game to win and their top players were playing against some top pairs and being nullified.
Fluerry had a 0.908% and a 2.61 GAA. That translates in to 28 shots a game. That’s less than Chicago gave up and the sv percentage is worse. Again, that also means the forwards had to score 3 a game against top teams.
Osgood had a 1.55 gaa and a 0.930 sv percentage. That translates to only 22 shots a game on average. That says it all right there.
Giguerre had a 1.97 gaa and a 0.930 sv percentage. That translates to 28 shots a game. This is the first time we’re coming across a goalie who may have stolen a cup. Even then he had Beauchemin, Pronger and Niedermayer. One would have to reasonably conclude that the defense played some part in that effort by Giggy.
To go further, two of the previous four goalies to win the cup have switched teams. If they were so valuable why would the goalies have been traded/not signed? If they were so valuable why couldn’t they name their price? If in general goaltending wins cups why are defensemen seemingly getting crazier contracts than goalies? Would a 35+ UFA goalie have gotten anywhere near the contract offers that Gonchar got?
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
Giguere was easily one of the better goalies in the league going back that far.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Feb 9, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
It's defense wins playoffs
And defense is a combination of goalie and Defensman. If the goalie isn’t top notch, you need better defensemen—especially defensive defensemen. Great Goalie? Less great defense needed. Poor Goalie? Great defense. Pretty decent Goalie, decent defense (Canes in 06, 09).
When we last went deep in the playoffs, we had Wallin and Seidenberg—both better shot blockers and bigger bodies than we have now. Cam did not see as many shots against as he sees now, neither did he face as many high quality scoring chances as he sees now. Both those guys would also clear the crease—they were big and strong enough. Same way Gill and Scuderi (and Orpik) did to help Fleurry. In 06 we had Wesley, Wallin, AWard all good positional, shot blocking defensemen. We don’t have those types of guys right now to assist Cam.
Cam can have a great playoffs, excellent save percentage, but if you’re defense is going to give up 30+, 40+ shots against with 1/3 or more being quality chance against a playoff team?? There’s no way you go deep in the playoffs with that. Our mix of defensemen is off—not enough true defensive defensmen.
That’s the difference.
More than defense at this point
It’s clear we need a scoring winger for Staal. The dude just gets covered every game and cannot break loose because everyone’s keying on him. If we want to get any scoring out of his line, we need to jettison Cole and plug in another winger for next year, balance the other side with Boychuk, jettison Samsonov.
oh, and as for this previous post by someone on this thread:
“REALLY? Maurice has this team right in the thick of the playoff chase in spite of a severe talent deficit at the middle and—particularly—at the bottom of the roster. I see no reason why the youth on this team won’t continue to develop and improve under his leadership.”
I would ask the poster to look again at the last few games and see if he wants to amend that…
Paul Maurice is the all-time winningest coach in 'Canes history
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Canes Country
Related FanShots on Canes Country
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Why the Devils and the Kings are evidence the Capitals shouldn’t trade Alex Ovechkin
- Eulogy: Remembering the 2011-12 New York Rangers
- Stanley Cup Final: 5 keys for New Jersey Devils and Los Angeles Kings
- Friday’s Three Stars: Devils head to Final; Brodeur, Kovalchuk the difference in Game 6
- Devils eliminate Rangers in Game 6, ending fear of the past, setting course for the future
