Carolina Runs Out Of Gas: Lightning 6, Hurricanes 2
by Bob Wage on Apr 9, 2011 10:34 PM EDT
in Carolina Hurricanes Game Recaps
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PrintWith their playoff lives on the line, the Carolina Hurricanes fell behind in the first period, 3-0, and could never recover as they lost to the Tampa Bay Lightning in front of 17,805 at the RBC on Saturday night.
This will mark the fourth year out of the last five that the Canes failed to make it to the playoffs, although to be fair, the team was not expected by most experts to be in the postseason this time around.
Still, their fate was in their own hands on this night and it was a crushing blow not to take the final step and make it in.
Perhaps it was one night too many, as the Canes had been battling to get above the playoff line, while living right on the edge of it, for over a month now.
Obviously, it was a quiet locker room after the game. The team will have exit physicals and interviews in the next couple of days, then will pack it up for the summer.
Coach Paul Maurice mentioned that Eric Staal was playing with a bad groin for the past three weeks, and it was just getting worse and worse. I'm sure more inside info will be released in the coming days about hidden ailments and injuries.
While "Hurricane Season" might be over, we'll have plenty more here on the blog in the coming weeks.
Quick Thoughts:
- I was expecting a more physical game. The Canes only had 13 hits and never got their aggressive forecheck going like they did in most recent games. Not sure why they did not ramp up their physical game more, unless they had nothing more to give.
- The team peppered Mike Smith with 44 shots on goal, led by Staal, Skinner, and Corvo with six each. Smith made some nice saves, but the Canes were always a step away from the juicy rebounds which were there for the taking.
Post game interviews are after the jump:
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Nothing to do with running out of gas, the team collectively froze once again when the pressure was on. I feel sorry for Cam Ward. He did all he could but the rest of the team let him down.
Solid season…pathetic it wasnt a sell out tonight. Maybe add $1 nachos next year.
If they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it
by Killswitch on Apr 9, 2011 11:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
So yet again….a 75% Staal is better than say a 100% Boychuk? I just don’t get this organization when it comes to “play thru it” injuries.
every org plays through injuries
a 50% staal is better than 2 boychucks
"a bit of love"
by chrisj on Apr 9, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Boychuk would need to make the NHL roster before we ask him to fill the role of the teams leading point leader. That comparison doesn’t even make sense. One plays wing the other plays center
Like the guy in the stands in “Major League” said: “Who gives a shhhh it’s gone”.
The point was: why risk more serious injury when we could bring someone up. But whatever.
by WStout on Apr 9, 2011 11:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well it says a lot about how you model your fandom for a team by bringing up that character.
I have so often thought of those clips when reading your posts, have even looked but been unable to find clips posted online from the movie focusing on that character (played by randy quaid if memory serves)
There in context it was at least funny, to live that way… wow… kinda sad.
Or hire Linda Lovelace. She never choked.
by WStout on Apr 9, 2011 11:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
The way you troll after this team after it faces adversity is quite frankly totally sickening. Up until now I’ve enjoyed bantering back and forth with you, but to dump on this fine, classy group of guys tonight truly shows that you don’t get this sport and have absolutely not one bit of comprehension about what competitive sportsmanship is all about.
by sittler27 on Apr 10, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look, some fans have to vent and speak their peace. Let them. I refuse to go quietly into this good night also. The Linda Lovelace quip was priceless! But to claim that those of us criticizing don’t know how hard competitive sports are isn’t fair either. While some us have played collegiate and/or competitive sports, even those who haven’t shouldn’t negate the validity of their opinion.
The team choked then pushed too hard, pinched in the wrong spots, and ended up losing. It doesn’t feel good, but then it’s not all bad either. We have a wealth of talent in Charlotte and PK has to tell JR what the checkbook will hold next season. If the checkbook is closed again this year, then the fanbase needs to start letting our feelings known.
#gonnahaveabreakdown
I stand by what I said. Choke is what you do standing over a two foot putt and thinking too hard. I’d say it is choke if they came out with no effort but that rarely happens in collision sports like hockey and football. Those that have played those types of sports I think know what I mean. You can come out too high and that can lead to all kinds of issues. You can come out tight, which is what we have seen too much of this team and whatever the reason needs to be addressed for next year ( youth, coaching, young captain or whatever). And you can run out of gas, which I think was also a factor with this team after the long battle to get back in it and every night is must win…. it takes its toll both mentally and physically.
But “choke” has from my perspective has always been a derogatory term reserved for those that don’t give effort, care or are mentally weak. That is not what I have seen with this team and I thought they deserved better. The Linda Lovelace comment, while funny, is better suited for a night out with the boys.
So like you, I refuse to go quietly into night….. but in my case it is in defense of a group of guys I hold in very high regard.
by sittler27 on Apr 10, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sit. I hold them in high regard too. But in my book, second place is still losing much less ninth. Am I happy with some aspects of the season: hell yeah. But I expect more from myself, my family, my co-workers, you name it. That’s what made this country great (at one time). And I sure expect it from my leasure, specifically sports.
Did they choke? In my book, yes. Call me a troll if you will but I do spend a significant amount of money around the Canes and if I am not satisfied, I’m gonna voice it. This is not some mite team where we can say “good try”. I love your voice here as much as Stink’s. And I will write this off as emotion just like you should mine.
Go Canes and Go Checkers!
by WStout on Apr 10, 2011 3:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fair comment. The one major area at the root of most of our disagreements is around expectations based on talent. If everyone started with the same payroll and talent pool, then I’d agree…. anything less than first means you failed.
But given what what we had to work with, I always felt that a reasonable expectation was that if we battled for a playoff spot we were exceeding expectations which for many so called experts was 12th in the East.
It is the old adage of not being able to win a Nascar race with a VW Beetle.
Now is Mo the best coach? There was some good progress in certain areas…. but the failure to correct the PP; not utilizing Peters so that he built confidence as a back-up; under utilizing the 4th line; and over slotting some players he has too much confidence in hurt the team. JR needs to evaluate the good against the bad and where he sees this team over the next couple of years and who he wants to lead. If he is allowed to stay Mo needs to make adjustments to his strategy and tactics. I want the team to win as much as you and I’m not at all convinced Mo is the man for the job.
Well said Sit. My apologies for offending you.
by WStout on Apr 10, 2011 6:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Self-Inflicted Wounds
The good news is that many of the problems with the 2010-2011 season have either been fixed or are capable of being fixed. The issue with over-slotting LaRose won’t be repeated next season, for example. The addition of Allen and Joslin really helps make the Hurricanes a much more physical team on defense. Now as long as Boychuk, Dalpe, Bowman, McBain, (and you mentioned Sutter) get their off-season Gary Roberts type conditioning, the Hurricanes will be viewed as a team to be reckoned with for quite some time.
When is it a choke to lose a key game?
In 2008, as I watched the Hurricanes lose to Florida, my first reaction was that the team choked. As time has passed, I have continued to revisit that question. I still don’t really know how I feel about the Florida loss. I do have a much better understanding, I think, of what it takes night after night to grind through an 82 game season now than I had then. Whatever the truth was about the 2008 Hurricanes, I never thought for a second that this team choked last night. I feel for the team and the coaches because they came so close to doing what few people thought they could. It wasn’t from lack of backbone or lack of commitment.
I can’t fathom why Maurice over-slotted players whom he clearly preferred over some younger, highly talented players. I don’t understand why Maurice didn’t seem to understand that by under playing his fourth line, he was going to wear out his top nine. I thought it was very foolish of Maurice to fail to take more radical steps when the power play was in the ditch. Still, I don’t have the same conviction that Maurice needs to go as it seems many others have. The structure of the team’s game seems balanced. The players seem to respect and like Maurice. There was good effort for all 82 games.
On the other hand, the Hurricanes could announce tomorrow that Maurice is relieved of his coaching duties and I would feel Jim Rutherford had sufficient grounds to make that decision. I do feel like I am trying to swim upstream as the growing consensus appears to be that Maurice is a good man, an honorable man, and a coach who lacks that extra gift that the excellent NHL coaches possess. I just don’t know if that view is correct. I hope for his sake he’s is able to adapt.
He has coached a lot of games but is still a relatively young man. I hope he learned from this season because I agree with you….. he won’t make it if he doesn’t change.
i gotta tell you, i like him and hope he stays with the organization....
but he does seem to lack that special something some winning coaches just have. he gets stubborn and sticks to what he thinks will work even if it isn’t and panics and does musical chairs. i don’t think he has what maybe lindy ruff and some others have in terms of being able to use what you’ve got and win. i think he should have used checker players more and let our injured veterans rest and allowed players more playing time that were performing well. i was even against putting jokinen back in since boychuk at a time was performing so well with his line. when jokinen first came back, it upset the tempo of the previous line and then jokinen on his own kept on scoring.
who knows. it’s always woulda/coulda/shoulda in hindsight. give maurice one more season but if we’re still struggling and hitting a wall, in 2012 i think they should look for fresh blood and have maurice help out in other areas in the organization.
I think I’m using a different definition of choke, sittler27. My definition of choke is: to become too nervous or tight to perform. I don’t find it as derogatory as you seem to take it. The word you seem to be describing is “mailing it in” which is far more serious and I do not believe this applies to the Canes at all. I think the guys came out and played with heart, effort and pride. I’ve never said they didn’t. I hold this team in high regard also. I always have. I’ve traveled half way around the world with this team.
I too am disheartened by the limited budget imposed on JR. I’m not sure how much longer this franchise can survive with limited budget and possibly limited playoff exposure. We may lose a fair shaire of players (eg Skinner) if that happens. Who’d want to re-sign under those circumstances?
#gonnahaveabreakdown
Yet another season we barely miss the playoffs
I’d rather have a crappy season and get another chance to draft a player like Skinner than to barely miss out on the playoffs and pick 13th or 14th in the draft. Anyways, we didn’t deserve to make the playoffs if we can’t win a game against a team that doesn’t have any real interest in the game.
How short sighted! You’d rather us have a long painful year like last year and miss all the excitement of the last few weeks playoff hunting? Just because we’ll be drafting at 12th!? We drafted Sutter 11th overall in 07 so I certainly won’t complain if we get another player of Sutter’s skill after a very entertaining and nail biting season!
Actually you are the one being short sighted
I’m interested in producing a team for the long-term that can make the playoffs consistently. You are interested in getting a few weeks of satisfaction and missing out on the playoffs. Please remember that you can’t win the Cup if you miss the playoffs. Look at teams like Pittsburgh, Washington, and Chicago. They were horrible for a few years in a row and got lottery picks. Now, they are considered contenders every year. Like I said before, I’d rather miss out on the playoffs by a lot and have a lottery pick, than to barely miss the playoffs and pick 12th. If you are a team picking in the top 5 at the draft, you almost always pick a player that is going to be an NHL regular. The same can’t be said after the top ten. It’s more of a crapshoot.
We wouldn’t have Staal if we didn’t have a horrible season the year prior. But, I guess you’d rather of enjoyed a week of competitive hockey and missed out on the playoffs, than to have the ability to draft a player of Staal’s caliber.
Keebler:
Staal—1st Round (top ten)
Ruutu— 1st Round (top ten)
Skinner— 1st Round (top ten)
Sutter— 1st Round
Tlusty— 1st Round
Pitkanen— 1st Round (top ten)
Gleason— 1st Round
Thre technically lottery picks… We’ve got plenty of first round talent. We have lot’s more high second round talent in the system. Not far off or better than most playoff teams…
So, either not all first round picks are equal—and they’re not, so we could get as good a player in 9th as we might in the top 5. We might not. But it’s a crap shoot, and some drafts are weaker than others. Such as this year’s.
So we shoudl already have sufficient talent. We just need better management of the talent….
Tampa had real interest in this game
One of their asst coaches had brain surgery a few days ago. I’d say they honored the hell out of the man by coming out and busting our balls.
#gonnahaveabreakdown
Disagree
When I say that Tampa didn’t have any “real” interest in the game I mean that it didn’t matter if they won or lost. They were already locked into a playoffs seed, so if they lost, it wouldn’t be a big deal. The Canes, on the other hand, had a huge stake in this game. Win and they’re in, lose and they’re out. Teams constantly manufacture ways to psych themselves up for games, but whatever the reason may be, this game mattered more to us than it did to them. That is very clear.
Every team has an interest in winning. If Tampa wasn;t a SE opponent, I might credit the wouldn’t care about the game. But this is an adversary, in our division, who wanted to make sure we didn;t make it. Or more accurately, they wanted to win and keep us in our place. They about to go into the playoffs against Pitt and want to go in fighting ready and firing on all cylinders.
They had pride to play for, and division rivalry to play for, and they had playoff form to play for. Would you wanto go into the playoffs slacking off and losing, or going in strong and winning??
They did have real interest in the game. But not the pressure we had. They took advantage and ate us up early. The they had to practice holding a lead for the playoffs…
Tampa may not have had an interest in the game as far as the standings are concerened, but they sure as hell had an emotional interest in the game. Plus they had the chance to eliminate a division rival on that team’s home ice. They had a lot of reasons for being juiced for this game. When they announced their regulars were playing, you knew it wasn’t going to be easy. Tampa is a very good team, and they simply beat Carolina’s tail.
The only easy day was yesterday.
by CoastalCane on Apr 10, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Canes Season and 12th Round Pick
I think the Hurricanes had a very successful season all things considered. The Hurricanes will pick 12th. Among the players whom I hope Jim Rutherford will take, at least one of Armia, Saad, Jensen, or Biggs should be available. I had hoped the Hurricanes team would seize the moment tonight; but as far as the future of the team goes, I’d rather pick 12th and add more talent than lose to Washington in the first round.
I like your positive attitude.Which I’ve got to admit is very tough to keep after a very dissapointing night. But I agree with you, this team was not going very far in the playoffs with Staal being hurt
by CJSLUMBER17 on Apr 10, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Mark McNeill
Don’t look past this guy.
by Sluv on Apr 10, 2011 12:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
More on Mark McNeill
Here’s some of what I found. I am copying another post I found with some links:
I believe this is proper citation form for attribution and for copying another poster’s comments.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=885478
Mark McNeill is a very GOOD hockey player (think David Backes) … he’s a BIG kid, He’s Strong and a Decent a scrapper, He’s skilled and putting up nice #‘s, He has good hockey sense and plays a structurally sound 2-Way hockey game, and Centers are most always more valued than a Winger {especially if he’s GOOD on faceoff’s ?}.
So there’s nothing wrong IF we draft him depending on our draft position and who’s remaining at the time … it’s still BPA, as NO ONE we draft will be stepping in and playing LW alongside Kopitar anytime soon, there’s no supposed “generational talent” in this draft nor are we drafting in the top 3, so let’s not debate that OK ? the only thing we really don’t need is to draft a glut of too many more Defensemen as we’d run out of places to play and develop them properly IMO.
Puck U
KINGS of Spotlight
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=885478
Puck U’s Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 4,658
vCash: 500
To the OP, this is copy of my report in our Kings draft thread …
PS – I might as well add some Mark McNeill stuff here …
Good Read – http://bruins2011draftwatch.blogspot…ould-know.html
HF Discussions – http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=829162 + http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=873352
The Hockey News Hot List = http://www.thehockeynews.com/article…n-McNeill.html
Yahoo Draft tracker 5 questions w/ Mark McNeill = http://sports.yahoo.com/juniorhockey…rhockey-310225
PLEASE DO NOT let the DUCKS get HIM = http://www.paherald.sk.ca/Sports/Hoc…-out-McNeill/1
The Boston Blog article is well worth reading. Also, I was impressed with McNeill in terms of the way he fights. He fights like he means it. It’s not for show.
http://bruins2011draftwatch.blogspot.com/2010/11/mark-mcneill-guy-you-should-know.html
While it seems that success to you includes plotting draft picks in early April, prior to the full completion of the regular season, to me, this team is has not been successful.
You have stated multiple times that you are a fan of PK, stand by his decisions, and agree with his actions, well, I guess you got what you wanted….yet another “successful” missed playoff year. Seize the draft pick, I would have much rather have played against Washington in the first round….last time we dropped in the playoffs we made it to the ECF….kinda like Philly smacking the Rangers in a shootout last year and making it to the finals.
Draft all you want, we can’t afford to sign these top picks in five years given our budget. I think your version of success is vastly different then mine.
by PittsburghCaniac on Apr 10, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Not only do I like your positive attitude but I respect it. Anyone who has had ever played played competitive sports knows that in those key games things happen. Outsiders use word like "choke’, etc. but sometimes you want it so bad that it interferes with execution especially with younger players. I have had my share of victories and defeats so don’t even go there about me accepting mediocrity. But I’m proud of the run that this team gave us and their overall season. It stings that we didn’t get into the playoffs but they exceeded the expectations of almost every preseason analyst to even be in the hunt.
For the young nucleus on this team this is an experience to build on. I’m enthused about the prognosis for next season.
I'm as Proud of this Canes Team as the 2005-2006 Team
I realized last night as I reviewed the comments about the game at various sites and blogs that I was as proud of this Canes team as I won the night the Hurricanes won the Stanley Cup. Fundamentally, I saw a team being rebuilt on the fly with a very young nucleus night after night give 150% and stay together. I am disappointed for the team, for Maurice and his coaches, and management that the team didn’t go further. I am not disappointed; and to the contrary I am very excited about the direction the team is heading.
I think in many ways this season will set the tone for years to come. Skinner has been a fantastic find for the team. Although some people here at Canes Country are not in agreement with me, I am convinced both Boychuk and Dalpe will have superb NHL careers with the Hurricanes. By drafting 12th, the Hurricanes will be able to add the big, fast, highly skilled, mean power forward the team desperately needs.
I am excited as well about the new physicality and meanness of the defense with Allen and Joslin. In my neighborhood, it’s all good.
We saw that the last couple of weeks. If that is what you saw in the two or three weeks right after the all-star game, you might need to get some sort of corrective lenses.
This team was stellar lately, and stellar in January, and mediocre the rest of the year. Uneven effort. We shouldn’t have even been in this situation. I look back to the last Columbus game as the throw-away.
This team was stellar lately, and stellar in January, and mediocre the rest of the year.
Which jives what abramsdoug is saying. We started with a team that retained almost none of its lines, had plenty of new players, and managed in the end to have gelled enough to almost make the playoffs. Before the season started, everyone was talking about it being a rebuilding year, but with a small hope of exceeding expectations and making it to the playoffs.
It took a while to put together lines, to fill in missing pieces at the trade deadline, etc., but we ended up with what the organization had said outright that they expected at the beginning of the year.
by Raccoon Fink on Apr 10, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I definitely don't feel the same as you
Saying that you are as proud of this team as you are of the Cup team is ridiculous and dishonest. Are you going to buy a shirt that reads “2010-2011 Carolina Hurricanes, we barely missed the playoffs”? No, of course not, but I bet you’d buy one that says “Stanley Cup Champs” on it. In ten years or so you won’t remember anything about this team other than that they barely missed the playoffs. But you will always remember the Cup team no matter what. I think you are just speaking off you present high emotions and feelings and that you will feel differently in the future.
Cup Team > This year’s team.
Let’s be honest.
Nope. I don’t know how you feel. I don’t know how others feel. I do know how I feel. I chose to go to WFU to play basketball and turned down scholarships to other schools because I wanted to find out if I could play well at that level. I learned a lot about college sports when the coach who recruited me left to go to be a GM for the Portland Trailblazers. I loved WFU basketball and the guys both who were stars and who like me were forgotten. What I learned was that it is honorable in competitive sports to lose as long as you could look yourself in the mirror and say every time down the court you gave everything you had. Over the years, I have seen WFU be a horrible basketball program at times and other times be true competitor for the national championship. All I every cared about was whether they had the spine to play hard and give it everything that had.
I am in truth as proud of this 2010-2011 team as the 2005-2006 Hurricanes. This team gave us, the fans, all they had. They traveled across the globe, had back to back games at a crazy rate, had young players come in, and faced every kind of adversity. Through it all they gave an honest effort. To me that is what it means to be a winner no matter what the final score is. That’s me.
Wow. Sorry, but I in no way look at this season’s team with the same eyes as I look at that group of players that willed themselves through four tough rounds of playoff hockey in 2006, including coming back from a 0-2 deficit in the opening series and being down 0-3 in the third game on the road.
But…maybe that’s just me.
Here we are now...entertain us.
by Elsker on Apr 10, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I am with you...that 05-06 team was amazing
no comparison indeed. Amazing Heart and mental fortitude during that season and playoff run. Other than the over coming the start against Habs. There was the switch from Gerber to Cam, Cole’s broken neck and the return in game 6 of the finals after Stillman’s ill-advised pass that cost the team the win in game 5 OT that would have finished off the Oilers….even with Cole returning game 6 was Oilers all the way…so they had to come home for a game 7 with everything on the line….after have 2 other chances to finish many so analysts were saying it was a toss up or were saying that the Canes would lose…we all know what happened they played a great game from start to finish and held the Cup HIGH!!!!
Still have not even touched on the tough series with the slugs…..
Hard to understand how anyone could compare that to this season?
No, its not just you, seems to be the rational thought. To compare these two teams, and their respective achievements and/or lack thereof, and claim to be equally proud, is to say that winning the cup is just another day in the NHL.
- “My teacher says beauty comes from the insider”
- “….Thats something only ugly people say”
Quoted from the movie LiarLiar.
by PittsburghCaniac on Apr 12, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you!!!
Thank god you said this too. I was on a state championship soccer team on a select team and on a high school state championship team (’72 Spartans/Sanderson High School) in 1988??. And I played for Anson Dorrance and George Tarantini for 5 years and have 2 national championship rings. Anyway, it is SO tenuous at this stage. Youw= wanna know what happened with the Canes?
Here’s what happened: I know these sound like excuses but anyway
1. We were spent/exhausted/burned out
2. Injuries that have been nagging certain players
3. Tampa Bay was ON— they could have come in and half-assed the game and didn’t…goalie had 42 saves, stamkos on it, PP incredible, defense incredible, energy, never gave up, had rested
4. 2 awful calls that hurt us by the refs on cole and i think ruutu
5. and WE LOST!!!!!
stop saying “if only we had more heart” “if only we cared more about the fans” “if only blah blah blah blah blah blah blah”….
until you’ve been in a situation like this of winning or almost winning, you have NO idea what it takes before or during the match to get there. no idea. the game can turn on a dime very quickly. this was not a 6-2 game. it was a 4-2 game. cam got pulled and they got 2 open net goals. had the penalty against cole been called, we could have gotten a third goal and it would have been 4-3 and maybe we would have had more momentum to catch them. we had a great season!!!!
our team should be very proud of themselves. this was a fun season to watch. our guys gave everything they had left in them. so we won’t get first draft pick. at least we tried to make the playoffs and gave the fans entertainment. our staff is good. let coach Mo stay on one more season and if he doesn’t make the playoffs by the third season, yes he should be replaced IMO. But right now let him try to get us there for the 2011-2012 season. enough bitching.
So it doesn't count right?
I kid, I kid!! I would say they were more emotionally tired from the up and down, in and out of the playoffs, controlling/not controlling their destiny, and the tightness of knowing only a win makes you season a success vs a failure—as many here are taking it. It wasn’t this one game.
Watch the first couple of goals, and you see a team that is well coached, but even more, you saw a team the has great chemistr playing together and knowing where everyone else is going to be—they used that, and they used it against McBain and Joslin—two rookies. Though both promising, they were in over their heads given the situation, but hopefully they’ll learn and improve.
Injuries Nag everyteam, but it’s tough whe we only have two good shooters, and oneis injured—Staal. If it were anyone else, it doesn’t matter near as much. To beat Tampa we either need a better defense—we’re not there yet with two rookies playing and only 3/4 dmen on the roster. So we needed offense and we didn;t have it last night.
I’ll blame coacing for all the line juggling through the season that stoped us from having the kind of chemistry the "Ning had, but to be honest, the lines we’ve been running lately had time and had adequate chemistry in the end. It shouldn’t have taken so long…
I’m not sure about keeping Mo. I didn’t like his coaching changes after the ASG that resulted in 50/50 or worse hockey-though he eventually fixed that. I don’t like that the coaching staff could never fix the PP. I didn’t like how the kids who came p got limited chances to play on top lines. But I liked the way they got the forwards to backcheck better over the season, and how they at least got a good PK going after initially being bad there as well. So I’m ambivalent, but believe a coach from outside the org should be brought in to better evealuate all the talent from scratch—including the kids. I don’t trust Mo there, and think he’s way too hung up on Vets over kids.
Gleason played only 1:22 in the third, including the final 33 seconds. He was another one who was hobbled severely by injury. And played 82 games. As did Corvo, LaRose, Skinner, Cole, and Ruutu. Staal played 81, Dywer played 80.
Justin Faulk’s team won the NCAA Championship tonight. Dumoulin’s team did last year. Both were considered in the top level of Defenseman in the tournament.
The Checkers won 6-2 tonight and start their playoffs Wednesday vs defending Calder Cup Champs Hershey Bears (Caps affiliate). They are considered a huge threat to the Bears’ chances by most observers. Bowman will head back for sure. Helluva great experience for all involved.
I said in September that this was the start of a 164 game season with a re-set button at the half-way mark. I’m good with that.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Apr 10, 2011 12:34 AM EDT reply actions
Staal, Cole and Ward...
Those guys sound so upset… :(
Next year, guys. Next year…
The worst thing Jim Rutherford never did was no re-sign Ray Whitney to the team.
Tough loss. Not the effort or outcome I want to see. I don’t know if they choked or just played their age. The young guns looked tight and the really old vets looked tired for most of the game. If they were robots we would have won, but they are human after all. As a long suffering Chicago Cubs fan, being in it at the end of season (with this rookie ladden team) is still pretty damn satisfying. Edmonton or the Leafs would give their left one for this chance.
#gonnahaveabreakdown
Puck Daddy says it well…“Hurricanes blow playoff chance, hand Rangers final seed.” This is hockey, players play through injury and fans make excuses…..Canes win 2 of those 10 OT losses or shootout losses and this loss is a non-factor…Rangers and Sabres got the job done, Canes did not, it’s that simple!
That’s just classic ‘day-after’ talk. IF the ’Canes win then the talk is how the Rangers failed again instead of how they got it done.
by drifterscape on Apr 10, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Exciting season.... regardless
I enjoy watching hockey for the sport, and the Hurricanes gave me a lot of enjoyment this year. Yes, a win here or a power point goal there would have made it a playoff year, but the team had 91 points as one of the youngest teams in the league. REPEAT…. THE TEAM HAD 91 POINTS AS ONE OF THE YOUNGEST TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE. We also found out that they have some pretty good young talent in the lineup…and some pretty good young talent that isn’t in the lineup. All in all, thanks for an exciting season. I strongly believe the ’Canes have themselves situated for some great seasons in the next few years.
Exactly.
How many points did we have last year? 80. The rebuilding worked, we just barely didn’t have a chance to execute on what that rebuilding gave us. Next year will be a season to start with the strengths we put together this year.
by Raccoon Fink on Apr 10, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a very fun season!!!!
First, this team was so much fun to watch. The mix of youth and experience was really cool. Skinner mania will permiate the area for years to come. The future is bright. Season tickets will be purchased again.
Last night’s game punctuates what I feel is the toughest challenge for the organization… Coaching. It is the Coach that should have set the game plan up. For Tampa, their only motivation last night was not getting hurt. This should have been the most physical game the Canes have played all season. Instead, they came out trying to out gun Tampa… That is simply poor coaching and poor planning. The decision not to play Cam in Chicago was the bonehead blunder of the season. I said it at the time that giving those points away, was going to cost us the playoffs. That is how close the league is. I believe a high end coach could make this team a championship team within two years. Mediocre coaching breeds mediocre results. The organization cannot afford to be in the 9th spot … long term. I am never critical of JR but, Maurice’s record is clear now. I fear that JR will not make a change where a change needs to happen. Laviolette is a great coach. With a great coach… Cup. Without a great coach, 9th.
Next up, re-sign Cole and Stillman. Get Gleason and Staal healthy. Replace Maurice with Laviolette type. Make Joslin a starter.
Finally, thank you to this team for showing such heart and passion.
Canes!!!
by KenRab on Apr 10, 2011 8:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
If the Canes re-sign both Cole and Stillman then they seriously need to consider trading at least one of Boychuk or Dalpe. Cementing our top-6 before the season even starts would be a poor decision in my opinion with the these kids deserving a shot in the top lines.
If I were GM… id re-sign Jussi and Cole. Let Pitkanen (beget not sufficient), Stillman, LaRose, and Harrison walk. Retool our defense (eventually bring up Faulk next year) and next year we have a decent shot.
Gleason – (signed D)
Corvo – McBain
Joslin- Sanguinetti/Borer/signed cheap d
Eventual replace 3rd pairing extra with Faulk.
To me, the single biggest area of improvement is toughness on defense. I think the puck moving defensemen is overstated on this team. Cam faced way too many quality shots all season. Eliminate one Puck mover for one big body that isn’t afraid to hit and this should round out the defense. I disagree with letting LaRose walk. Don’t underestimte team chemistry. Clearly, he is not a top line forward. but he has value on the 3rd or 4th line.
Canes UFAS this Season
Whom to resign: Cole and Jokinen; Pitkanen if Jim Rutherford can find the money;
Whom to let walk: Stillman and LaRose
Who’s on the Cusp: Harrison; Harrison was one of the most improved players on the team. He has a tremendous character and is a very, very hard-working player. He has a limited upside; but who knows, some dmen need time to learn how to use their skill sets effectively. I can see arguments for re-signing him and also can see arguments that with the better skilled young dmen available letting him walk. I’d probably re-sign him with the idea he works perfectly as a #7 dmen who can spell some players within the top 6 if they need some games off to heal.
Dwyer: The choice as I see it comes down to Dwyer and LaRose. It’s a bad idea to keep both because they serve so similar roles and are both under-sized. Dwyer I think is a more skilled hockey player. LaRose is more important to team chemistry but is likely to cost at least $1,200,000.00 or so whereas Dwyer like resigns for $600,000.00. I would save the money and use the $600,000 towards re-signing Pitkanen. I see arguments either way.
I agree that Sanguinetti has a real chance. Borer seems to be playing himself back into pre-injury mode. I like Allen for his added meanness and ability to clear the crease.
The Hurricanes power play was abysmal this year. The weak, unproductive power play is one of the most significant reasons the Hurricanes are done for the season. Bringing up more skilled, faster, offensively gifted players is essential to having an effective power play. Both Boychuk and Dalpe add that offensive dimension. Having LaRose in the top nine takes a critical roster spot that is needed in the top nine for true top nine talent. Boychuk and Dalpe will add firepower on the power play as well.
I forgot Allen! Silly of me. As for a UFA to fill the top D spot, I’d go with Wisnieski or Ehrhoff.
Gleason- Wiz/Ehrhoff
Corvo – Allen
McBain- Joslin
Sanguinetti/Borer
Eventually offload Corvo or Allen at the deadline by the time Faulk is ready for NHL time.
My other plan would be to move up a little bit in the Draft and pick up Dougie Hamilton in the 5-10 position. This Big D is exactly the type of kid we need in our Top-4 long-term and he could be ready as early as next year.
In our current position… I’d go for Joel Armia/Mark McNeil if we were looking for Power forward. Duncan Siemens/Jamison Oleksiak if we were looking for a Defensive D project. Or Matt Puempel if we wanting another possible Skinner-type goal scorer.
JussiJuice,
Do you plan on kidnapping JR on draft night? To quite Luke DeCock on draft night “Rutherford really really really really really really really really hates drafting defensemen”. We certainly got the steal of the draft (at least on early returns), and JR kept it going in future rounds. I’d rather spend Joni’s money on bringing in a defensive defenseman who will block all opposition out of the crease – I’d love to see Cam get a vacation next year (being defined as another night with 19 shots).
Our leading hitter shouldn’t be a forward (granted Ruu is the best in the league) – we need a Gleason from 2-3 years ago – if we get the original back, and another one like him, then we have a pretty good defense, once you add Corvo (MVP on the D this year), McBain (who looked great after he got hurt), Joslin (hope San Jose likes their bag of pucks or whatever they get), and Allen. This is where we need help – on the D. No offense Ian White, Jay Harrison, and Anton Babchuk, but we need more beef back there.
We now have a great offensive line (the Skinner Finnwich line), if Stillman and Cole come back, we have a great first line, and we have Brandon Sutter to anchor the shutdown line. If we can pick the right Checkers (doesn’t sound as good as Rats) to play complementary roles, or to replace Stillman if he doesn’t come back, then this team will be improved.
Between Dwyer and LaRose, I would probably go with LaRose. I know he is going to be more expensive and brings less skill, but he is more important to this team. In smaller markets like here, the GM needs to consider the character aspect of players more. LaRose brings in far more fans than Dwyer does.
if JR is really serious about moving forward with the youth movement, you don’t resign Stillman. In fact, you don’t resign Joni either.
you maybe resign 2 or 3 UFA’s and let all the kids in Charlotte battle for the open roster spots that will be available.
and find a coach that will actually play a back up goalie for more then 9 or 10 games.
no, we need to find a backup goalie that the coach has confidence in to play more than 9 or 10 games. Hopefully Barasso will give P-Dawg some things to work on in the offseason.
The question is, how do you teach playing well starting cold? I don’t see the org playing the backup more next year, so we need someone who can sit out 10 games and play decently.
Peters is a good goalie, but I fear we missed our chance to let him blossom by not giving him enough minutes. Much as I love Peters, the way we use (well, don’t use) goalies, Legacy would have been a better backup.
by Raccoon Fink on Apr 10, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
my thoughts exactly
Peters is not a bad goalie. he showed that last season when Ward went down with the leg laceration and back spasms.
we need to find a coach that doesn’t play your starting goaltender for 72-74 games in a season. that’s just madness.
Pete plays better when he plays—as most youn goalies do. When Mo says Cam plays beter with more work I feel like saying “Duh” they all do to a point. That’s why the back up needs more games.
Pete played well last year because he came up after over hal a season of starting games in the AHL, and he alternated with Rolie to get plenty of game time when he was up. That makes a world of difference.
Exactly. You can’t teach starting cold. That is something that comes after years of experience in a starting role. Unfortunately, we have a starter and a developing starter, not a starter and a back-up. I feel like we should have traded Peters a while ago. Unfortunately, now he almost has no trade value and we will probably lose him for nothing.
good season but opportunity lost
We are not in cause we lost our chance in the final game…it really came down to missed chances during the season. Plenty of them. Our season was lost against caps and the devils. You can not lose that many points in your division. We should have never been fightin for our playoff lives…still a good year though ….
by sdbrassfield on Apr 10, 2011 8:42 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Great season, but the Staal injury excuses are becoming a common “we missed the playoffs because of” theme…
This is where I have a problem. When do you reach a point where playing through an injury becomes detrimental to your team? I get the argument that an injured Staal may be better than a healthy Boychuck. I’m not gonna get in that debate. But when does a coaching staff come to the decision that a guy is injured and a considerable bit slower, so we might need to play
The only easy day was yesterday.
by CoastalCane on Apr 10, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the bigger issue is playing Staal so many minutes all season wears him down and leads to these late season injuries. He plays both big minutes and hard minutes like the PK, which is very unusual for an elite scorer.
by curiouscanesfan on Apr 10, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
I was going to make this point…Staal is a big guy, and he’s played a whole heck of a lot of minutes for Mo—often times in the third period playing most minutes with Mo trying to get a tie or come from behind win—so he’s also working extra hard during the extra shifts. Then he stays on many times way to long on his shifts.
There’s no surprise that at some stage he’s going to get injured. But it’s not an excuse. There aren’t many, if any, forwards who have missed less time than Eric Staal during his career. Given how much time he has played, it’s amazing how little time he loses.
My concern is his coring pace early was better than late—as he started having to play more minutes, and double shift with fourth liners who don’t help his talent, then his production seemed to slip. That’s poor coaching to me. Mo needs to fight the temptation to run Staal out at every opportunity and play him the minutes he should, run four lines every night, and I bet Staal’s productivity would be better.
Oops...
to continue what I was saying…
…so we may need to play someone in his place?
sorry. I didn’t mean to send an incomplete post.
The only easy day was yesterday.
by CoastalCane on Apr 10, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
If the injury is so severe maybe he shouldn’t have played
The only easy day was yesterday.
by CoastalCane on Apr 10, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to say whether or not he should have played. That decision is Maurice’s decision and only he knows the reasoning. All I know is that quite often he was unsure whether Staal could play on any given night.
But really, you aren’t going to sit out your captain and star forward when you need every point you can get. I bet people would be criticizing him for doing that if he did and we missed the playoffs.
You’re right. It’s either win-win or lose-lose. I have always had a problem with playing a guy who is a game time decision. It doesn’t matter what the sport. If you have to wait until the last minute to make that call, maybe you shouldn’t make it. I also understand that the athlete has a lot to do with this. He wants to play, and will do what he can to get in the game. My problem is that there is always an increased risk in making that injury more severe. Just as an example, if Staal had a strained groin, what happens then if that strain muscle becomes a torn muscle?
The only easy day was yesterday.
by CoastalCane on Apr 10, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Great momentum into next year.
I think this loss will sting for 5 months and the team will be juiced up when the next season rolls around. And the momentum and confidence the team received from playing their tails off for the past month will help them tremendously. I see a dangerous Canes team next year.
Go Hurricanes.
Uh
Didn’t we do this last year—I thought last year’s stong second half finish, which (like NJ this year) was too late to make the playoffs, was supposed to set us up better this year.
But we got the same result?? Same coaching record from the same .500 coach…
Samson 3:00 minutes of ice time
again, Mo must go. Looking collectively at the season, waaaaaaaaaaaay too many missteps, mismanagement of personnel, come out flat games, etc. The dude is just not right for the NHL.
ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN
Staal, Ward, Skinner. What else can you say??!?!!?
Allen, McBain, Joslin. Potentail on the blueline, when was the last time we heard that?
Sutter, Samson, Bowman. Potential realized, more on the way from Charlotte.
Ruutu, Jokinen. Continued excellence.
Let’s get moving in a new direction next season with some new leadership, retool the defense around the three mentioned above, grab another power forward and LET’S GO CANES!!!!!!!!!!!
See y’all later…
Where'd Lavi go?
by Sergeant Stinky on Apr 10, 2011 10:04 AM EDT reply actions
Maurice
I take it you were doing your happy dance with Luke DeCock’s article advocating Maurice be fired now. I disagree. I am hoping Jim Rutherford lets Maurice have a full season in 2011-2012. Then if the Hurricanes make the playoffs, the rebuilding plan has worked with Maurice at the helm. If not, bring in Jeff Daniels. If the Hurricanes miss the playoffs in 2011-2012, they will be picking around 8 to 12, so the talent pool on the team will be increased. I can’t predict how Maurice will do in 2011-2012, but he will have enough talent and mixture of young and experience to be able to make the playoffs.
DeCock makes an overpowering case
Lost revenue, lost draft position, lost player development, failure at the most critical moments. His most salient point is that with Skinner and Ward playing at such a high level for a full season, the team wasn’t as undertalented as the world expected. What coach would not be expected to win one of two chances to clinch a playoff spot? Failing twice with everything on the line is hard to stomach. Laying an egg in the first period of the last game with everything on the line—especially after a season where poor first periods were the norm—is even harder to excuse. A second close loss with everything at stake would be less damning.
I have never seen a case made to retain a coach with a subpar record at making the playoffs on the basis that another full season with him at the helm offers only happy endings, one of which is a bad enough record to get another high draft pick to add to the talent pool.
When you consider Maurice’s lack of a track record using young talent successfully, the weak argument turns to vapor. He will have to do a great job coaching young players to succeed next year, starting with a group of young players who will go into next year less experienced than they had to be because of how he chose not to use them this year. And if he fails at that, which is predictable, the team should not give him a place in its hall of fame for getting them another high draft pick that he won’t want or know how to use.
by curiouscanesfan on Apr 10, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to see Jeff Daniels at the helm. I don’t buy the whole “They coach the same system so nothing would change” argument. The teacher is the problem, not the subject. Take any two 5th grade Math teachers teaching out of the exact same book and I doubt you will find that their course is exactly the same.
Jeff Daniels has worked with the Canes current top-prospects. He has an amazing track record for utilizing and developing the Canes young talent. The Checkers PP this year was 3rd in the AHL this year (21%) These two facts alone are enough to make me want the change, given the system he runs is very similar to Mo’s.
I’m for change but have no basis for judging Daniels as an NHL head coach.
by curiouscanesfan on Apr 10, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Partly agree… But here’s my thoughts on Mo—if we re-sign Stillman, Cole and Rosie (which if Mo has a say, or any influence after ending interviews….we will) then we will not be younger, we will have the same forwards in the same top nine, with the Kids still in Charlotte and starting to wonder how much more they need to do to play….And I’d want out. That’s where i think Mo may kill us and why I want him gone, and I don’t want Daniels.
I want an outsider that can run a camp/preseason with no preferences and who will judge the talent we have on hand at the time and choose a team based on the talent he chooses, and runs line combinations based on needs and not Veteran experience or paycheck….
agree completely. luke decock has no clue what he's talking about. this team did extremely well considering ....
we went from vets to young inexperienced players. picked up some new vets who had to acclimate to the team very quickly. learning new system.s dealing with injuries. keep Maurice for 2011-2012 and we SHOULD make the playoffs and if not, put him in an assistant role and bring up jeff daniels or some new head coach but Mo should stay with the organization as he is helpful and knows it well and is dedicated. i like the guy. maybe he just needs to be in an assistant position if we don’t make the playoffs next season. because we really should by then.
I think just about everybody likes Paul Maurice. The problems are the pattern of results over a long career and his preference for any veteran whatsoever over any prospect whatsoever if given a choice. If the Canes are serious about rebuilding, they should get a coach who isn’t mortified by the idea of playing young players. If they want to dump the young players and go back to the old bargain retread strategy, Maurice is about as good as anybody at making that kind of team competitive, though it does get hard to watch.
by curiouscanesfan on Apr 10, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Surprising lopsided loss, the season had a lot of positives, the offseason has major risks
The season had positives, especially considering that Staal and Gleason were clearly hampered by injury for quite a while. I’d rather the Canes had gotten more experience for guys like Dalpe and Boychuk, but it was a close judgment and they did almost make the playoffs.
The positives obviously start with Skinner who was an instant star. What’s even more encouraging is that he has obvious room for improvement and is sure to work hard and get better.
Cole, Ruutu and Jokinen were all excellent. It was wonderful seeing the Erik Cole of old.
McBain, Allen and Joslin were all important additions to the defense. With Corvo and a healthy Gleason, the Canes have the beginnings of a good defense.
While the Canes could pick a big forward or an outstanding defensive prospect with size, they won’t draft anybody who helps immediately. The biggest looming issues are Pitkanen and Sutter. My guess is that Pitkanen is gone and the Canes hope Sanguinetti or Faulk can take a big step next season. That’s a big gamble but Pitkanen was an enigma. It will be interesting to see what if any injury information comes out about him.
The biggest risks this offseason have to do with the Canes tending to spend too little on some critical positional needs while tying up ridiculous amounts of money in home-grown favorites. Those problems are obviously related. Staal and Ward are excellent players but still overpaid. LaRose is a valuable player in the right role but still overpaid. Which brings us to Brandon Sutter. Realistically, Sutter took a big step backward this year, playing 10 games more and contributing 11 points less. Despite argument to the contrary, Sutter is not anywhere near being in the same class with Jordan Staal. Staal had 11 goals and 19 assists for 32 points in 42 games after coming back from injury. He is bigger, stronger, even better than Sutter defensively and vastly better offensively. Sutter had 29 points in 82 games. Yes, he was +13. But he is more like Marty Reasoner, an excellent defensive center who scores 30 points a year, than Jordan Staal. One big difference is that Reasoner is close to 55% on faceoffs to Sutter’s 44%. The Canes can’t afford another season of routinely ceding puck possession to the other team’s top offensive line in most critical situations. I hope Sutter stays but only if the Canes can get him for a realistic salary. Reasoner was paid $1,150,000 and is a UFA. Jordan Staal was paid $4,000,000. In my opinion, Sutter’s value is much closer to Reasoner’s or Rich Peverley’s – another center who is much better at faceoffs than Sutter. Peverley was paid $1.325 M. Sutter provided no upward trend to justify projecting ridiculous performance and paying ridiculous salary. He’s a valuable player at the right price and that’s it. And if the Canes don’t overpay Sutter, they can give Jokinen the raise he deserves, re-sign Cole, and still go after one free agent to upgrade the first line. If Sutter and his agent make unreasonable demands, the Canes should trade him, perhaps in a package that allows them to move near the top of this year’s draft.
Finishing with 91 points and just missing the playoffs after getting crushed in the last game is not bad. But it’s not as good as finishing with 92 points and just missing the playoffs after losing 4 -3 in the last game in 2007-2008. The way that season ended is considered a disaster with no quarter given for the loss of Justin Williams for more than half of the season, Rod Brind’Amour for 20+ games as well as Ray Whitney, Bret Hedican and Nick Wallin for 16 games each, while relying on Trevor Letowski, Keith Aucoin, Ryan Bayda and Jeff Hamilton collectively for quite a bit of TOI and giving some time to rookies like Casey Borer and Tim Conboy. With injuries taken into account, that 92-point team wasn’t exactly a powerhouse.
It will be interesting to see how the Canes’ brain trust evaluates this season by comparison with that one and what coaching and personnel judgments they make going forward. It seems unlikely that Sutter is going to contribute much scoring. The Canes will be guessing about whether Boychuk and Dalpe can contribute significantly. Bowman and Samson look like role-players. Nash, Osala and Terry are unknowns. The Canes’ draft position isn’t high enough to bring immediate help.
The good thing about the way the season played out is that the Canes came together and made a genuine playoff run at the end. The bad things are falling short and knowing less about whether recent draft picks have the ability to come through next season in any role above the 4th line.
by curiouscanesfan on Apr 10, 2011 10:20 AM EDT reply actions
I will say that I think there will be plenty of opportunity to move into the top-10 or maybe even the top-5 of this Draft given the spread of talent in the top-20 or so.
There are no true Stamkos/Tavares/Kane type talents that are locks to be NHL stars. Nobody really looks NHL ready outside of Landeskog and Larsson. A lot of projects that look like they could possibly end up as NHL impact players if they develop right (Saad, Oleksiak, Armia, McNeill, Puempel, Riggs, Bartschi, Zibanejad, etc..).
With a lot of differing opinions, there are bound to be teams with high opinions of lower ranked guys that might want to move up a bit if the pot was sweetened with an additional 2nd rounder or decent prospect.
Obviously it would only make sense to sacrifice a player or draft pick to move up if you think you’re getting a much better prospect. I would trust the Canes to make that judgment. If there’s nobody there who justifies that kind of trade and they think Sutter’s demands are exorbitant, they could look to trade him for another young player. I hope Sutter and his agent don’t make exorbitant demands. I want Sutter to stay. The Canes’ history of overpaying in this situation is what scares me.
by curiouscanesfan on Apr 10, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Sutter should get more than $2-2.5 million. Not that he doesn’t deserve it, but as an RFA he doesn’t have a lot of leeway. If the Stars can muscle James Neal (a superior player in nearly all aspects) to a 2-year $2.8 million contract as an RFA last year, Sutter does not deserve more than $2.5 million.
Dude?
What up with the Staal Vs Sutter Comparison?? Staal is so much better? Hope so—it was his 5th NHL season…. That said, did you look at his second year, you know like Sutter’s second year? Staal had one less point (12 16 28) and was -5 on a top contender. Sutter this year had (14 15 29) and was +13 on a non-playoff team. Seems like they are pretty equal if you compare them developmentally at the same timeframes.
Sutter needs to put on weight, He will, eventually—Staal has an advantage there—even over his brothers. But the weight and strength will come to Sutter too. This other thing to consider, is Jordan had to move to first line top center due to injuries to Crosby and Malkin. So of course his scoring was better this year. Move Sutter up with Cole and Stillman or Ruutu and Jussi and see where Sutter plays out.
Not sure where you’re coming from there, so I didn’t read the rest of your post…
Jordan Staal is a reference point for assessing Sutter's salary demands as an RFA
Are you saying the Canes should give Sutter a long-term deal at $4 M a year based on his regression this season? Jordan Staal is there as a reference point because that’s what he’s making and he’s another 22-year-old center who’s good defensively.
Others argued earlier this season that Sutter is Jordan’s Staal’s equivalent. Sutter is good but I don’t see him as being nearly as valuable as Jordan Staal, now or ever. If the Canes tie up $25 M in Sutter over the next six years, I think they will regret it. Yes, Sutter will get a little bigger and stronger, but he’s always been rail thin and Jordan Staal has always been big and powerful. The extra 35-40 lbs that Jordan Staal carries isn’t fat.
Sutter has played more than 200 NHL games. He trended down this year, not up. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect him to get twice as good as he is now. What he’s worth at his current level of play is, in my opinion, closer to $2 M a year.
by curiouscanesfan on Apr 11, 2011 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Like I’ve said in earlier threads & FanPosts, I think JR will work out a deal with Sutter that will around $6.75M or $7M over the next 3 years; taking him to his arbitration rights year. I would assume Sutter would get a pay increase to $2M next year, $2.25M the following year, and either $2.5M or $2.75M the last year. For what he provides and his potential, I think that would be fair.
Here's the SKINNy, the All-STAAL game was CAMtastic!
From speculations I have read on other fan boards among others with far more expertise at predicting these things than I, consensus seems to be as you say.
Three years at around 2+M/yr, with cash flow probably escalating slightly through length of the contract, so say $7M over 3 years.
That would take him right up to the season before his RFA expires, where the extension and/or any other decisions could be made.
Here we are now...entertain us.
No I’m saying your comparison is unfair. Sutter’s first season was as a low time 4th liner, then AHL stud. Mostly because of his size. Jordan came in much bigger and started about the same as Sutter did last year. Then Jordan “regressed” his second year as well. So I’m looking at Sutter more as a second year guy after two good years, similar to Staal’s first two years. Sutter also looks to have the same 20-25 goal per year potential Staal has shown previously (last two seasons) playing in the same situations. So they are not as different as you make it out to be.
But no, I do not think Sutter should or will get what Jordan got. As you mentioned, Jordan already has the size and strength, but more importantly, Jordan had a brother who scored over 100 points, other teams wanted to get Jordan and see if he could do better as a #1 or #2 Center because of this (and because of his 29 goal first year) So Pitt had to pay more to keep him.
Sutter will not have the same interest around the league, but I think you also might be underestimating the regard other teams have for him, and many see an bigger upside than you appear to. I have no problem with Sutter averaging 3M over his next contract. I hope he takes less… But I see his worth.
The loss hurts but I actually like the current line-up. If there is anyway to keep this line up close next year then I think we can do some major damage next year.
me too. pick up some more PP forwards who can SCORE. and some solid D and we'll make the playoffs.
our systems were finally working.
I think Stillman a year older will not help as much as a Dalpe or Boychuck… I’d hate to see us stay the same, the results would too… We aren;t finding a PP forward who can score on the trade market. We can;t afford it, JR will not do it, and no one from the draft will be ready.
Stillman and Turning the Page
Stillman always has been a player with fantastic hands and vision. I really had hoped the Hurricanes would not trade for him, not because he couldn’t help but because he didn’t represent the future of the Hurricanes as far as I was concerned. I thought he would be fine; and he was better than fine. I had hoped Jim Rutherford would essentially force Maurice to shuffle Dalpe and Boychuk into left wing on Staal’s line to give them NHL seasoning in the top six. What I doubted was that Stillman’s presence would be a sufficient upgrade at left wing and on the power play to take the Hurricanes over the top and into the playoffs.
I think it would be an enormous mistake to re-sign Stillman. He is very talented and will help an NHL team that is already playoff bound with its talent pool. The Hurricanes, however, need to turn the page with players like Stillman. The new era has begun. The Hurricanes have to be a young, fast, aggressive team that uses raw skill, speed, and physicality to win. Stillman is the classic, shrewd, veteran who uses his experience to find ways to win. The problem is he lacks foot speed. He’ll create chaos in front of the net and can make impossibly precise passes; but the price on pays for that is a much slower first line.
This Hurricanes team over an 82 game season was not good enough to make the playoffs. That fact is already established. The Hurricanes need more talent to make the jump. The Hurricanes organization is dependent on the skilled players like Boychuk, Dalpe, and Bowman to be ready rather than going out and signing expensive free agents. Another year of Stillman with Staal and Cole delays Boychuk and/or Dalpe’s entry into the top six. It’s a mistake to do so.
Paul Maurice
While I would have preferred the corpse of our season to have cooled somewhat before the start of the recriminations on players choking and coaches being fired that some bloggers and journalists ( DeCock) have embarked on, under the cold hard reality of what is hockey business in the end you have to hold leadership accountable. You and I would expect that in your daily business life.
I’m not a big fan of Luke when it comes to hockey. I’m biased by the views of long time friends in hockey reporting and broadcasting who find him overly opinionated about a sport where he has little depth and breadth and doesn’t seem much interested in correcting that. It is easy to write a “Mo must go” article. Much tougher to truly analyze the organization and make insightful comments on its strengths and weaknesses and actually make a case for who the successor should be and why.
No question in my mind that Mo is a players’ coach. He is well liked and respected throughout the league, by his players and within the organization. He is a really good guy in person and what you see is what you get on a consistent basis. Being a hockey coach is so much different than being a business leader. In business you don’t often have to prepare your people every day to go out and defeat an opponent in a do or die scenario. More about strategic direction, plans, daily processes, periodic measurements and methodical corrective actions. And the emotional, adrenalin fueled highs and lows just aren’t as prevalent. Trust me, I had a couple of years of transition once I left the sports world and sorely missed it.
In my assessment of Mo, he is more suited to front office. He really thinks the game, is intelligent and analytical , but almost to a fault. While I sure wouldn’t want a Tortorella type coach, someone like Lindy Ruff has always struck me as in between Mo’s cerebral approach and Lavi’s manipulative and dramatic style which seems to emotionally wear on the players. My worry is that JD is too much like Mo. Francis the same. The coach that I am most intrigued with in our organization is Tom Barrasso. He seems to have a fire smoldering that may translate well into the leadership we need in the dressing room and on the bench. For whatever reason, too often we have come out flat in very key situations. We have a young captain and a young core. My guess is that they don’t yet have the experience to hit the right tone and words to get the team in the right frame of mind…. that then falls on the coach and as much as I admire and like Paul, he did not get it done.
Knowing JR and how the organization functions, Paul will get a chance to start next season and fulfill his contract… but if he stumbles in the first 25 games, Tom or JD will take over and so it should be.
* edit
* reply
Read more: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/canes/canes-thrashers-2#comment-217537#ixzz1J8RPpeW4
Good, thoughtful input. It is simply true that two ninth place finishes in a row are not good results. I’d rather see them tank and get a really premium pick than stumble around in mediocrity. If the Canes are not above .500 at Thanksgiving next year, it will be time for Maurice to fall on his sword.
Barrasso
I have been thinking and saying the same about Barasso for a while. Either way, the PP has to be addressed from a caoching perspective next season. Hate to say it, but one coach needs to rotate out. Maybe Ronnie needs to resume GM like functions, maybe Roddy needs to apprentice with Pete Friesen or take over altogether. Maybe Daniels needs to rejoin the Canes in some capacity. I am just not sure. I am sure, however, that Mo is back. If we fail to be in the hunt in December, he is gone.
2 years to the Cup
the thing is, i think MO himself would agree with this assessment. if they don't make it next year, i think he would leave the head coaching position on his own
and stay with the organization in some capacity with recruiting, penalty kills…etc…i like tom barasso but i thought his focus was on cam ward. i would LOVE to see jeff daniels get a chance. and PM would still be with the hurricanes and could mentor jeff daniels. i just really would love daniels in 2012-2013 to see what he could do as well as he’s done with the checkers. no slam on Mo or nothing. but after a third season, if no playoffs, his head coaching days are done IMO.
I’d go for Lindy Ruff clone in a heartbeat. He seems to roll with the punches somehow every year and keep that team competitive. If key vets get hurt, he’s able to plug in kids quickly and make it work. They make the playoffs two years out of three and never seem to go below 90 points. For them, the worst case is a near-miss and the best case is 110+. They also always seem to have lots of homegrown talent so I know it isn’t Ruff alone who’s responsible for their consistently good results, but he certainly manages to do his part.
They lost Drury, Briere, Afinogenov, Campbell etc. and slumped some but still kept coming. They got a lot out of Ennis and Gerbe this year after Derek Roy got hurt. Ruff seems to have that mysterious knack that the best coaches have. I’m sure intelligence and preparation are involved, but there is some mysterious knack that separates the best coaches in every sport from others who are just as smart, just as hard-working and just as well prepared.
by curiouscanesfan on Apr 10, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad I’m not the only who hates that guy!
The only easy day was yesterday.
by CoastalCane on Apr 11, 2011 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
you certainly are correct.
it’s what made dean smith special, mike k., anson dorrance……there is a certain je ne s’ais quoi that can’t be taught that maybe Mo doesn’t have. but i’m not sure any of the other asst coaches has it either. since jeff daniels sends up these players that immediately score and do well and then seem to taper off once in the canes’ system, he seems a logical choice. and then find some great young thing to take over the checkers.
agree 110%
must be the end of the season… ;-)
Where'd Lavi go?
by Sergeant Stinky on Apr 10, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
so sorry canes fans
really hoping u guys would get in. i was really hoping for a cardiac canes moment when u guys were done 4 1. when that lil pest larose scopred i lost my head.
sincere condolences
go bruins
thank you kindly. i wish the lightning could have just given us the game (fat chance!)
but no dice. i’m proud of our guys though. they have no reason to hang their heads. it was an exciting season.
There hasn’t been a lot said about the post all-star game slide. If there was ever a time to ride a wave of momentum, that should have been it. In my mind, that, along with the power play, probably had more to do with missing the playoffs than anything else.
Lost in all of this is the fact that nobody expected this team to finish above 10th this year, much less have the chance to slip into the playoffs on the last day of the season. The youth gained some valuable experience playing in some pressure-packed games, and this can only help them moving forward. I expect them to come out next year playing like a team that is legitimately pissed off for coming so close, but falling short.
The only easy day was yesterday.
I just want to say that I could not be any prouder of this team. It was a roller coaster ride of a season and I am just glad I stuck around for the ride. Looking forward to October and a GREAT season next year!!
"That’s what happens when you suck" - Tim Gleason
I agree completely. It’s just that October is sooooo far away!
The only easy day was yesterday.
by CoastalCane on Apr 11, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Last September not many people were talking about making the playoffs. We knew it would be a transitional year, and it was. Rather than bailing out with 3 weeks to go this team entertained us and had us on the edge of our seats- in a great way. Yes this team has some issues to work through, and those issues made the last 11 games very crucial for the team to win, but they over came quite a bit and made the NHL pay attention. They went down last night, and no they didn’t play a great game. But I am proud of the team for fighting to the end. In a way this late season charge was like the playoffs, and for the team and the young guys the lessons learned may be as valuable as if they went thru a playoff series. So many do or die games and they responded so well, but you can only ask so much of anyone, and last night they ran into a team that people should really give credit to as a very worthy playoff team, and they couldn’t go to the well one more time. There wil be some changes over the summer, and this team will have a bad taste of last night in their collective mouths. I suggest we hold onto our hats next fall, this team will make some noise, early and often! Go Canes !! You are my team to the end.
i feel the same way.
i’d rather have the excitement and winning these big games than a better draft pick.i’m not supposed to say that but it’s the truth. i’m really proud of this team and enjoyed the season thoroughly. not everythign is pretty or easy and that’s fine. life is about the struggle.
Dont get too excited about the draft yet. This team needs to put it together next year. We have three more years of Skinner on the cheap, and Erik Cole is not getting any younger. Neither is Staal for that matter. We have a window opening this season that will be closed in after four more seasons.
Actually, our window is at least five seasons long, since both Staal and Ward are signed through ‘15-’16.
Here we are now...entertain us.
Yes, that worries me too. Hopefully we will have figured out the budget situation by then. Otherwise, we will either by stung by losing Skinner, or stung by signing him to a huge contract and having to sign a bunch of other cheap AHL players to fill out the lineup.
Next year needs to be a playoff year. If Maurice isn’t getting it done through the first part of the season, dump him as quickly as possible. Two years from now needs to be a deep run in the playoffs.
Still proud!
I was at the game, up in section 333 cheering the whole time, even at 6-2. They gave the last few games everything they had so win or lose they still deserved the fans on their feet no matter what.
But seriously, section 333, WAKE UP. What a bunch of tools. Had 74 year old grandma with a tiara and glitter on her face coaching the team the entire time, while the rest of the fans up there became indignant when I was still standing and cheering at 5-2. Those folks may have their season tickets and think they are fans, but I’ll tell you what, it was an absolute DISGRACE. If any of you sit up in 333, shame on you.
It bothers me that so many fans, especially in the lower level leave games early, even close games. Is it really that important to get home 10 minutes earlier? Some of the best and most exciting moments come in the last 5 minutes of the game.
It’s embarressing to me that when they announce the three stars of the game that three quarters of the fans have vacated the building.
by CanesFanFromLI on Apr 10, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
well, you have the option of paying for lower bowl seats and displacing those “fair weather fans” if you so choose.
Where'd Lavi go?
by Sergeant Stinky on Apr 10, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve had seats both high and low, I like the view from both.
Lower down you really can appreciate the speed of the game and the impact of the hits.
Higher up gives you a great overall view and makes it easy to see plays developing.
We really have a great Arena with great views. I went to the Garden a few years back to watch the Canes play the Rangers, the view of the ice was obstructed from the upper level seats.
by CanesFanFromLI on Apr 10, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree on the cheering part...
I felt like at times, I was the only one cheering the Canes. I was up in 325, which is around where I usually try to sit if there are seats for me and my friends.
Although I can get rather loud yelling “Referees Suck” or “Ref’s You Suck”, moreso this season than any other season before…
The worst thing Jim Rutherford never did was no re-sign Ray Whitney to the team.
by thebl4ckd0g on Apr 10, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
This team has the talent
I disagree with some of the assessments that this team needs major changes next year.
They improved a great deal on defense, I like Allen and Joslin, both great pick ups that seemed to solidify our defense. Joslin is young and should be even better next year, same is true for Mcbain. If we keep Pitkanen he shouldn’t have to play 28 minutes a night, this should make him a better player.
We have plenty of forwards capable of scoring points, though if we could upgrade (either by trade or from the checkers) I’d say that Larosse, Dwyer and Tluski are all expendable. I’d sign Stillman if he’s willing to take a 1 year contract!
What I don’t like about the team is how Mo plays them. Staal looked worn out the last few weeks, evidently he had a groin injury. Maybe the injury would never have happened if he wasn’t playing 25 minutes a night. The third and fourth lines need more ice time.
Cam wasn’t great in second games of back-to-back’s, Peters proved he could play last year, never really got the chance this year.
I still have high hopes for Sutter, he had a early injury (wrist?) that slowed him down. If he could add 20 lbs of muscle over the off-season he might be awesome!
Backup
One of the tasks of JR will be to find a decent backup who can play 15-20 games and is ready to play everytime he will be asked to…
Peters is definitely not the answer and I don’t know if it’s Murphy or Pogge..
Ward really looked tired in the last couple of games…
Any backup is going to need to work some games, regardless of who they get, Maurice needs to give them some playing time.
Remember last year, Leighton didn’t play for a month then Mo plays him the day after his wife gave birth to their first son. (I wonder why he didn’t play so well!). Leighton then was let go and proved to be very effective for Philly.
by CanesFanFromLI on Apr 10, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s out of question but Peters was shaky in 90% of his games…what can Mo do? He just didn’t trust in him anymore. I don’t blame him for that
I do
Peters is a young goalie, not an experience veteran. He did well last year after half a year’s of starting goalie play in the AHL. When he came up, he played frequently. He has no clue how to play from the bench. He needed to get into the rotation early in the year, play a lot to get confidence and comfortable, then he could ride more down the stretch.
But to sit him for so long and so often never gave him a chance as an NHL rookie… Not great coaching.
I’m not saying the Leighton should be the new backup, nor am I saying it should be Peters. What I am saying is that who ever the backup is, he will need playing time to prove himself and to be effective. Mo does not use his backup very much. The problem isn’t the backups, its the coach.
Rangers fan here. I’m sure I’m the last person you want to hear from but just wanted to let you know I know how you feel after making a run last year and falling short in Game 82. It sucks but you should be and rightfully are proud of your team, especially young talent like Skinner. The pain of this loss will motivate them next year, Skinner will be even more awesome, and you’ll get in next season. Congrats on a seriously impressive run, especially the spanking of the Red Wings. Sorry it worked out this way.
that post was very big of you. i'm actually not disappointed in the team at all. i would have loved to make the playoffs. but i'm not devastated we didn't. i think we'll make it next season and i'm really proud of how they played. it was exciting.
i hope Mo coaches one more season and if we still miss maybe try someone new. i though Mo did the best he could with what he had to work with.
Thank you, Joe1969!
For showing that there are awesome hockey fans in this country, and can be as nice as you are to fans of other teams, even if they are rivals in the East. :)
I’d love to see a Buffalo Sabers fan be as nice as Joe1969. :D
The worst thing Jim Rutherford never did was no re-sign Ray Whitney to the team.
by thebl4ckd0g on Apr 10, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder how Quenneville is regarded in Chicago this season? His boys had to win at home against a team with nothing at stake to make the Post season. They lost. Who’s fault is that?
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Apr 10, 2011 6:46 PM EDT reply actions
I’m still on the fence with the Maurice issue, but Quenneville is a completely different story than Maurice.
um…Quenneville won the Cup last season. Mo missed the playoffs.
Where'd Lavi go?
by Sergeant Stinky on Apr 10, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I asked who’s fault it is when a team loses a must win game.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Apr 10, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
why is john tortorella disliked?
is he a bad coach or people don’t like his personality? i’ve seen him interviewed and liked him and thought he was a decent coach. anyone?
I don’t like the way he embarrasses his players in the media. Like any good boss, some things should be handled within the team behind closed doors. He really brutalized Jussi when they were in Tampa. Also went after Stiller. Both are class players in my eyes. Torts has little class.
I was under the impression Torts like Jussi. It was Melrose who screwed that up for Jussi in Tampa … I don’t have that other than just talk, so sorry if I’m mistaken on it.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Apr 10, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It was Melrose who screwed that up for Jussi in Tampa…
No, no. Exact opposite. Jussi got lots of ice time under Melrose, and he said afterward that Jussi was one of the best players on the roster.
It was when Tocchet took over and the ownership got even more involved with roster decisions that things went awry, with the trade being more about the ownership meddlers opening up committed salary (Jussi’s) for the next season and therefore willing to take back UFA junk (Brookbank / Melichar) from us so that they would have cap room to acquire more free agents in the off-season.
Here we are now...entertain us.
No one is disabling reply on purpose.
For me, sometimes the ‘reply’ button doesn’t work in long threads, nor do keyboard shortcuts (like ‘z’ to mark read and continue). Sporadic and hard to repeat to troubleshoot, and not sure if it’s an SBNation issue or computer issue, although for me personally it seems to be a memory issue when I have too many windows or applications open.
Try refreshing, relaunching your browser, clearing your cache, or worst case scenario, reboot your computer. Restarting seems to fix the issue for me. I’ve reported it to SBNation support (support@sbnation.com) but haven’t been able to resolve. Be sure to note the OS you’re using, browser, page you’re launching, etc.
Please do report a problem if you have it occur again (that goes for all of you), either via the email address above, or you can also use the “Contact Us” link at the bottom of the page.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
by Jamie Kellner on Apr 10, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Happens to me on more than one computer with different operating systems (mac and winxp) and different browsers as well. (will report if I keep encountering). Sometimes the problem will clear out if you go back to canescountry.com, and reclick on the link to the article.
Feels like an sbnation issue. Thought it just happened to me. Thanks for the support info.
Riding the Cole-train.
On the Record
I’m still on a personal moratorium talking about the last game of the season, and the season itself, for that matter.
But, just so I can clear these programs off my DVR, here’s what a couple of talking heads in hockeydom had to say last night:
Craig Button (former Flames GM) on NHL on the Fly (after talking about the Carolina D letting the play get in behind them for a couple of goals being shown):
“…it’s hard to believe that they started out so poorly, because the previous games the Carolina Hurricanes were terrific. They jumped on the Atlanta Thrashers. They didn’t even give the Atlanta Thrashers a chance to get into hte game.
You thought coming home…raucous crowd…chance to be in the playoffs…and they just came up flat….and this is the worst time to come up flat."
And, during the Hotstove segment on Hockey Night in Canada Saturday night, there was this reaction from the four guys in suits, talking hockey, when the score was 4-1 in the third:
Milbury: “I’ll tell you, if they lose this game, it will haunt them the rest of their lives. I’ve been in games when you thought you were ready…the house was packed…you thought you were going to win it all, and all of a sudden, something goes wrong and the tumblers don’t click back into place….and it will kill them. They got a big hill to climb.”
LeBrun: “Couple of guys there have won the Stanley Cup, you know, so I don’t think it will…”
Milbury: “This was an elimination game and that was a while ago.”
MacLean: “But, you know, in 2008, Carolina had Florida at home on a Saturday night and they had to beat Florida or have Florida lose the next day, and it didn’t happen. Carolina missed the playoffs. So, it kinda, as you say, seeps into you a little bit, and I don’t know if it crept into their psyche tonight.”
And, then after briefly mentioning that this could very well be Stillman’s last game (but noting that he had at least won the Cup), they concluded the discussion with this question from MacLean to LeBrun:
“Just quickly, any other coaches on the hot seat in your eyes?”
Which led to a quick DeBoer and Ramsay mention.
Just saying.
Here we are now...entertain us.
By mentioning “any other coaches on the hot seat” are you saying the analysts were thinking Maurice is on the hot seat? I think he’s safe this year. Can’t imagine JR giving him walking papers and paying him not to coach again. But maybe Maurice is our Billy Martin.
#gonnahaveabreakdown
I’m just reporting what was said, and that was certainly implied by MacLean, who for those that know him, can slip ’em in and stir the pot with the best of ’em. Also, remember that Mo is now ex-Toronto Mafia, so certainly was the buzz on the lips of all those Toronto media guys like MacLean that have to be Leaf fans at heart.
Heck, no, Mo’s not going anywhere. But, I’m also providing outside perspective on what any normal GM/coach discussion might center upon in the post-season debriefing session.
Here we are now...entertain us.
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