Notes at Noon: Sleepless in Winnipeg, Coaching Carousel, and Tyler Stahl Report
by Bob Wage on May 20, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
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Deal Or No Deal?
At least three or more mainstream sources reported last night that the Atlanta Thrashers were officially moving to Winnipeg this summer, only to have the NHL shoot down those reports as being premature today.
Still, it looks to be just a matter of time before our Southeast cousins make the move up North. One has to feel for Thrashers fans, but the folk in Winnipeg have every reason to be partying in the streets, which is exactly what they did last night.
What does this mean for the future of the Southeast Division and for the Hurricanes scheduled preseason game with the Thrashers in Charlotte next season? There are several different possible scenarios, including moving Columbus or Nashville to the Southeast. Or Winnipeg might have to stay in the division for a season.
Exciting days are ahead in Manitoba.
Kevin Dineen "Ready To Make The Jump"
The Globe and Mail published a report yesterday about coaching candidates who would be available this season for open jobs in the NHL. First, they list an "experienced" group which includes Ken Hitchcock, Peter DeBoer, Craig MacTavish, Guy Carbonneau, and Michel Therrien.
Their "up and comers" list included former Hurricanes captain Kevin Dineen, who has just completed his fifth consecutive winning season in Portland. Dineen is a fiery guy, (franchise leader in penalty minutes), and would certainly be an interesting selection for someone.
Not yet on the list is Checkers coach Jeff Daniels, which could mean that the coach is still a bit under the radar outside of our area.
Stahl Looking For A Contract
The Drumheller Mail reported yesterday that Hurricanes 6th round draft pick, Tyler Stahl, is hoping to get a contract offer from the team this summer.
The 19-year-old defenseman could play one more season in junior hockey, but he would prefer to move up to the next level this coming season. He will be working out hard this summer to help make that happen.
This past season, the 6'1 blueliner had 10 points and 182 penalty minutes playing for the Chilliwack Bruins. It sounds like the Checkers could use his physicality, but is the rest of his game ready? Stay tuned.
(Correction: Stahl can not play for the Checkers next season. He would have to turn age 20 before 12/31, and he turns 20 on 1/29/12.)
Au revoir Javier
Today is Javier Serna's last day at the News and Observer. He and his wife, Sue Stock, are moving from the area. Javier helped out Luke and Chip in covering the Hurricanes at times and I'm sure he will be missed. He always had a smile and was friendly and helpful to me and for that I thank him and wish him the best in the future.
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Javier Serna
Javier was also the reporter the N&O sent out to cover the Raleigh Storm U-14 Girls team. He and photographer John Rottet came to a practice and then came up to the CBHL Tournament in Laurel, MD.
you won't meet a nicer reporter than sue stock
she epitomizes everything that a professional news person should be. never met her hubby, but it sounds like they are birds of a feather
"We've got to look at this," Columbus general manager Scott Howson said Monday after exit interviews with the players. "Because whatever we have right now isn't working."
by Sergeant Stinky on May 20, 2011 12:15 PM EDT reply actions
Love reading stories like that one on Tyler Stahl from the hometown press about the younger prospects. Great find.
If he is signed, that’s Rissanen, Stahl, Kyle Lawson (?), Michal Jordan, Bellemore, Borer, FitzGerald, Sanguinetti, Faulk. and Rodney (I guess?) – 10 D vying for 6 spots in Charlotte. Plus Ethan Grahame possibly? Wonder how Stahl feels about Naples Florida?
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on May 20, 2011 12:54 PM EDT reply actions
FYI, Drumheller’s a neat little town in Alberta’s badlands, it’s known for the Royal Tyrrell Museum, the largest collection of Dinosaur bones in Canada.
Drumheller has also contributed to NHL before. Don Campbell, born in 1925, was the first NHL player from the town. He played 17 games for the Chicago Black Hawks as an 18-year old.
Last season Andrew Bodnarchuk became the second Drumheller native to dress up for an NHL team, when he played 5 games with the Bruins.
Hockey fan, stats nut, webmaster of QuantHockey.com
Twitter: @QuantHockey
interesting, I wonder per capita what the most productive town in Canada is, I know Provincially it’s Saskatchewan, but a lot of that has to do with their population.
I wish I could answer that but I can’t.
If I had to take a guess, I would say its probably Viking, Alberta, the home town of the Sutters.
According to Wikipedia it has a population 1085.
Hockey fan, stats nut, webmaster of QuantHockey.com
Twitter: @QuantHockey
Right, I can’t speak for Eastern Canada – I’d say that Sittler’s area of expertise, but I’d imagine Trail would be up there, Kamloops, Red Deer, Sherwood Park.
Trail certainly comes on top form your list:
Trail has 17 NHL players (population 7000)
Kamloops 9 has players (population 86 000) .
Red Deer has 21 players (population 90 000)
Sherwood Park has 6 players (population 57 000)
Hockey fan, stats nut, webmaster of QuantHockey.com
Twitter: @QuantHockey
You’re probably right about Viking, but it’s definitely an anomaly. With Trail I could remember Jackman, McCarthy, Ferrero, and Seth Martin off the top of my head. They list the population at 7K, but it’s really higher because it’s really a string of about 5-7 towns with 1 hospital in Trail, interesting stuff.
Read once that per capita Thunder Bay produced the most players. If not the most, from my recollection some of the toughest.
Not that it matters, but I’m a city boy. Grew up in Don Mills, a suburb of TO. Played all my youth for the Civitans and then Young Nats. All the mean guys seemed to come from the smaller towns. When we played some tournaments there the moms were scarier than the guys on the ice.
You play in Alberta?
Played Junior in OHL (London). Wonder if our paths ever crossed. I’m probably older than you. Was born in 1954.
You are, I’m late 70’s. The OHL is incredible, I often wonder what would have happened if I’d gone the CHL route, to play at that level is very special and I enjoyed Junior A, but will always wonder. I certainly know what I I’ll tell my son.
It was an experience I thoroughly enjoyed. Only downside that has not changed is that it is not education friendly. In my day American college was not competitive and we both understand how Canadian university hockey stacks up. If quality hockey had been available then I’m sure my family would have pushed me to go the US college route.
When two successive serious injuries cut my career short while still in the AHL, I had no education beyond high school. I’m eternally grateful to the parent team that drafted me because they rostered me so that I got the maximum disability available. Not great but enough to allow me to stay in school long enough to get a post grad degree while married and re-start my life. I was very lucky to have had great support all around. I’ve seen the hard luck scenarios of guys I knew well who were not so blessed.
Don Mills
What part of Don Mills did you live in? I went to Mallow Road and Greenland Public schools in the late 1950’s / early 1960’s before moving to Willowdale (and my brother and sister went to Don Mills Collegiate).
by canadianexpatriate on May 23, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Stahl
Stahl can’t play in the AHL this coming season. The article is about him securing a contract for his 20-year old season, which would be ‘’12-’13.
This summer his plans are to continue to train and condition. As a 19-year-old, if he is able to secure a contract, he will be able to start playing minor professional hockey in the AHL instead of playing junior hockey as a 20 year old.
That’s not how I read that – but perhaps the story is not accurately describing the situation?
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on May 20, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The Canadian major junior hockey is made up of three leagues: the WHL (Western Hockey League), the OHL (Ontario Hockey League) and QMJHL (Quebec Major Junior Hockey League). The players in these leagues are all under 21 years of age with a minimum age (in all but extreme cases) of 16. There are some overage players, also, with a limit of three per team. I believe that the rule is that if the drafted player is 20 years of age or under by December 31st, and does no stick with the NHL team after 10 games, there is an agreement with the CHL and NHL that player must be returned to his junior team and cannot be assigned to the AHL. This is so that the CHL is decimated by NHL sending 17 and 18 year old high draft picks to their minor systems.
Stahl was born in 1992 so he will not turn 20 until 2012 so my understanding is that if he doesn’t make the Canes big team ( highly unlikely), he will have to go back to his Junior team.
I’m familiar with the agreement, but I also seem to run into subtle exceptions from time to time. It sounds like the line I highlighted doesn’t line up with that for some reason.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on May 20, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm, the article is a bit ambiguous. I just assumed he was turning 20 in time next year, I didn’t check his DOB. Thanks for the info.
Editing Manager of Canes Country.com
I agree with both you and hockeymom. Article is ambiguous. But CHL agreeement is part of CBA and I haven’t seen any exceptions to it…… I think where the confusion comes in where a CHL player is eligible to join an AHL team after their CHL season is over.
One I remember from last year (And I don’t have time to research the specifics, so excuse my errors in the details) went something like this:
Toronto prospect Jerry D`Amigo, 19, elected to leave college (RIT ?) after his freshman year, and signed w/the Leafs. Then the discussion followed whether he would go to the AHL Marlies or whichever CHL team he was drafted by, prior to taking the NCAA route, if he didn’t make the NHL roster. Because he had done the NCAA year the CHL retained no rights to him and Marlies it was, but they may have loaned him to another OHL team for part of the season too.
Can’t say I followed it closely other than it was really unorthodox but apparently all within the guidelines of these various agreements.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on May 20, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
D’Amigo played for RPI of the ECAC (NCAA). He won the ECAC Rookie of the Year.
Looking at the transactions he was sent down to the Kitchener Rangers (CHL) a few days before the Feb 10 2011 deadline. He had played about 40 games with the Marlies of the AHL as you indicated. He was born Feb 1991 so was 20 at the time and had played 41 games with the Marlies when he got sent down . This one is interesting because up and until then he had never played in the CHL.
As I understand it when he signed his contract it stated that he would play at the NHL or AHL level or could be assigned to the CHL before the deadline. Apparently he was none to happy at first to be sent to Juniors. Not sure if he got recalled to Marlies once the the Rangers season finished.
Dineen
Would make a interesting choice. I was listening to a radio broadcast a couple weeks ago and the opposing team’s casters couldn’t stop saying good things about him.
I wonder what the Canes’ records are in Mo’s contract years…
Atlanta Moving to Winnipeg
Atlanta has a very strong, young team. We complain about being $8-10 million under the Cap, but Atlanta almost made the Playoffs last year (if not for a late-season collapse) at the Cap floor.
The problem I see is that the man reportedly buying the Thrashers is the 14th richest man in the World. He will be the richest owner in the NHL. With a strong, young team stacked with talent and nearly $22 million to spend in Cap space (minus the $8 million or so it will take to sign RFAs Bogosian, Ladd, Wheeler, and Anthony Stewart)… I can see them being a big player in the Free Agency and Trade market which means more teams with money vying for the likes of Jokinen, Cole, LaRose (lol j/k), Pitkanen, and any other Free Agent the Canes might want to sign. Pegula and this new owner will be making waves.
..give it 10 years
..when the Canadian Dollar is on a downward cycle. That’s why we almost had the Houston Oilers – Hockey style not that long ago.
by Adam's Journey on May 20, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
BOG approval
Would the Canes vote in favor or not in favor of the move?
22 votes are needed.
None of the SE division teams should vote in favor of this move. Most reports have Winnipeg added to the SE division for next year which adds thousands of miles in travel for each SE division team next year.
But, if any of the $60 million in relocation fees ends up in the owners pockets, then I’m sure the Canes are all for it.
I would say against. There are the excessive travel fees they would have to pay and the great toll that traveling to western Canada would take. Imagine having to fly to and from Colorado 3 times a season…add in customs and that is basically what it is like going to Winnipeg.
Not to mention, the southeast teams would probably support a southeastern team. If Atlanta fails, I can see a lot of people arguing that hockey in the south is a failure, and then Florida would probably be on the radar.
And the Hurricanes always play well against Atlanta.
If Atlanta fails, I can see a lot of people arguing that hockey in the south is a failure, and then Florida would probably be on the radar.
It would be a weak argument however.
Atlanta made the playoffs once, and didn’t win a single game. If that continues in Winnipeg, we’re having the same conversation in 10 years about the support in Winnipeg.
Stephen Brunt is the author of the article that was published in the Globe and Mail last night about the Atlanta to Winnipeg agreement reached. He talked about it on XM Home Ice this morning. Here’s the link.
Regarding the BOG approval, Brunt comments that while there’s been no formal vote, the plan has been vetted at previous BOG meetings and they don’t foresee a problem with approval.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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Some “sources” claim that the deal will likely be made next week. Right now, the deal is basically done, and they are only working out the complexities. The question shouldn’t be if the team is sold but when the team is sold, assuming Board of Governors approval.
I truly feel bad for the Atlanta fans. They have select-a-seat tomorrow night, and most of them will be going with the likely possibility that they will never get to use their seats. I can imagine that if the Hurricanes never won the Cup we may be in a similar situation.
I’m a bit puzzled as to why Bettman goes on these “I want to protect NHL markets” spiels and will fight tooth and nail to keep Phoenix alive year after year when it is clearly unsuccessful (more so than Atlanta) and then turn around and be 100% gung-ho about shipping Atlanta off to Winnipeg at the drop of a hat. Bettman is such a joke… It is reasons like this that many people consider the NHL a joke as a whole.
You are 100% right about the Canes. If they didn’t win the Cup, I’d be extremely worried with the current ownership, attendance, and market.
It has everything to do with the options for keeping the team in their current market. He’s been over it in pretty great detail on some of his recent comments on XM, which I’m sure are published somewhere.
The first priority is to keep the team in the current city and not relocate. Phoenix/Glendale as a city and a region are making an effort to keep the team there. Sadly, Atlanta is not. The current owner wishes to sell. There is no buyer willing to step forward and make an offer to keep the team there. The city has not made any offer to support the team staying. So what exactly are the options to keep the team in Atlanta?
As a fan I don’t want the Thrashers to leave Atlanta. I enjoy having a rival close by. I feel for their fans. But what are the alternatives?
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on May 20, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is that there isn’t a local buyer willing enough to buy it. Sure, there is one in negotiations, but he must not be trying hard enough. Bettman knows that the team is going to be sold; unfortunately, the only likely party is one who is going to relocate.
But if the owner would have simply went bankrupt instead, then the NHL can step in and support it themselves to hold them over until a buyer is found (Phoenix).
Bettman would love to have an owner as rich as the guy heading the True North group as an owner. As well as the relocation fee. Im just saying compared to Phonies, they are letting this go pretty quick. There are teams in worse financial shape than Atlanta (Florida and St. Louis come to mind).
by JussiJuice on May 20, 2011 8:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That is Phoenix, not phonies. Phone auto correct.
by JussiJuice on May 20, 2011 8:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Are you pretty knowledgeable about corporate law and such? Cause this is fairly complex and the answers aren’t so easy.
The owners of Atlanta are ready to wash their hands and the city is no interested. It also has to do with the ownership of the Arena and the way the money flows. It’s really about corporate finance, real estate, and so forth.
You don’t just go bankrupt when you own multiple corporations – it gets complicated and has repercussions depending how the obligations are structured.
Recently, the owners in Dallas went bankrupt and that’s facilitating the new buyer there by dealing with the debt.
Elliotte Friedman wrote a pretty good piece on this Monday here. It gets into a lot of the intricacies of ownership.
The Globe and Mail piece from Brunt gets into the relationship that True North developed with the NHL over the last year.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on May 20, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Another piece from Ken Campbell at the Hockey News this morning talking about who gets the money and how much.
Bettman is using his leverage in this situation to his full advantage, as he usually does. And anyone who thinks Bettman does not have the full backing of all the league’s owners is likely ignoring the fact that he has handled the Phoenix and Atlanta situations brilliantly.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on May 20, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That is another issue I have… Bettman is selling the Thrashers short to cover his own stupid mistakes. He has added incentive to sell the Thrashers to an outside market because the $60 million in relocation fees will cover his additional losses garnered by keeping Phoenix afloat in a wasteland.
It is nice for the owners because they don’t have to pay out of their income to support NHL owned Phoenix. Sucks for Atlanta and other struggling teams.
That’s it. Phoenix (the city) is guaranteeing $25 mil to cover losses. The NHL already bought the Yotes, so they’ve no desire to take on an additional franchise when Atlanta fails. Bettman will let Atlanta go because the franchise will be better with a new ownership group.
I’d prefer C-Bus over Nash for the new SE team, simply because I have family in Ohio and and a road trip to watch the boys would kill two husband points with one stone.
Here is a piece by James Mirtle that I feel better describes the situation:
"And the truth is, this is a league where there are at least a half dozen teams in as big a financial mess as Atlanta.
Atlanta is just the first to get out."
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to find the Canes in that category. If it weren’t for the fact that no team who has ever won a Cup has been movded, I’d be getting a little nervous with our continued marginal attendance and extremely tight budget that isn’t bringing in many wins/Playoff appearances.
There was, however, never enough success on the ice to generate the type of modest financial success in places like Tampa Bay, Carolina and San Jose.
Seems Mirtle puts Carolina in a different category….
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on May 22, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
That is part of my point. San Jose achieves great success pretty much every single year, spends to the Cap, and makes the Playoffs. Tampa Bay has one of the best young cores in the league, a new owner willing to spend money, and looks to be a Playoff contender for years to come. Both these teams are trending upward.
Carolina is different. If it weren’t for getting very fortunate with Skinner and another great year for Cam Ward, the Canes would have been a bottom dweller last year. It looks as if the plan next year is to spend at or near the Cap floor, with little upgrade the Canes will again be lucky to be fighting for the last few Playoff spots.
Unfortunately I do not feel the Canes are at the point in Raleigh that they can continue to make the Playoffs once every 3 years and still continue building a strong and profitable fan-base. The budget seems to get tighter every year and as the Cap goes up, other teams will only get stronger and have more money to throw around which means less available talent for the Canes.
As I said, no team that has ever won a Cup has been moved… I think that gives us some level of safety. But, at what point of continuous poor seasons due to being a budget team does PK get tired of losing money (similar to the Thrashers owners)? Are there potential owners that would want to buy and keep a small-market team? Would Raleigh start putting up cash to keep the team here? Would Bettman jump on the chance at another $60 million relocation fee to cover other losses if he had another owner willing to sell?
You said you live in Atlanta, right? Probably pretty easier to make those types of doom-and-gloom predictions about our future from 7 hours away.
Quite frankly, if after making the ECF finals three times in the last 10 years, and winning a Stanley Cup, and creating a ground swell of support and interest and future here through youth hockey and a successful minor league affiliate three hours down the road, if that isn’t enough to sustain the Complainiacs through a couple of rough patches when ownership deems it wise to be a little fiscally conservative, perhaps the team deserves to be moved.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
by Jamie Kellner on May 22, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Missing the point…
Bettman quote (on his pet project Phoenix): “Because we fight hard for every city and our fans need to know that we don’t just run out”
Bettman is not living up to his word. Every struggling team without a billionaire owner is in danger (Canes included). Especially if an outside billionaire is looking to buy.
No I’m not. Your premise is based on an opinion that the Canes fit your definition of a “struggling team”. That’s not an opinion I share.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on May 22, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a place for constructive opinions, speculation, hockey talk, and sharing idea/information.
A few people on here seem to use it mostly for downing others, telling people they are wrong, and other similar non-conducive banter. If people don’t like what someone says, I believe they should either argue it constructively and bring up counter-points without snide remarks or just ignore it. Just my opinion, however. Varying opinions are what makes this site both great and fun.
I’m really sorry if you feel like I am picking on you, I’m not.
I understand that you’re upset over what seems to now be a certain loss of an NHL team in the city where you live.
But after seeing at least three separate negative posts from you on the disintegrating state of the Canes in just this one thread alone, I felt I was equally entitled to offer a dissenting opinion as to the state of the franchise.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on May 22, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Here's the thing
..and this is why some folks are concerned about the Canes. Karmanos continues to say they are working on to find a partner in ownership.
The Cup and two lucky playoff runs (and that’s honestly what 2002 was – and I’d argue 2009 as well) has kept the Canes away from the sharks that is Canadian relocation dreams.
Look at how attendance drops and more importantly in STH sales in the drought years between playoff seasons (runs). It was painfully evident during 2003-04, and even somewhat in 2007-08. I really don’t think the Canes would have seen an increase last season in STH sales if it wasn’t for the All Star Game.
Are things better here than Atlanta, Columbus, FLorida and Phoenix, no doubt. However, it’s not hard to see how thin a line it is. And how fortunate the Canes have been to be on the good side of that line.
And that’s why myself and others, want the team to win more consistently. Yeah, the Cup runs are nice…and last year’s team was better than expected. But I think there have been so many missed opportunities to have a really rock solid organization and fan base here in Raleigh. Everything is there for it to be the case, but sometimes I think that instead of being in the playoffs more often than five times in 13 seasons is more important than having a ‘nice’ team that the fans ‘like’.
The team has been at a plateau for awhile. They really need to be more successful on the ice to stay above that razor thin line.
I love the team and will defend it to no end. But the franchise is far from perfect, and sopeepctive.
by Adam's Journey on May 25, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
No one is saying they think the franchise is perfect. No one is saying they don’t want the team to win more consistently.
You know me in real life. Do you honestly think I don’t want the team to win every time they take the ice?
Of course winning is important. That’s not what I’m saying. All I’m saying is that I don’t think this franchise fits in the same “struggling” category that other franchises are being thrown into.
You mention Atlanta, Columbus, Florida, Phoenix. Do ANY of those organizations have the legacies we have here? Call it luck all you want (and FWIW I don’t agree with you in that regard), this organization in 10 years has been to the ECF three times, been to the SCF twice, has hoisted the Stanley Cup, on top of hosting a draft and one of the most wildly successful All-Star Game weekends ever. What this market did to support the world of hockey (and oh yeah, that was after not making the playoffs and with tenuous chances to make it this year, and in not-great economic times) to me was remarkable and heartwarming. And don’t forget the surge of youth hockey in this area, along with a successful farm team just a few miles down the road, one that DID make it to their conference finals this year, bringing a lot of promise to our future.
If it was all luck, do you not think Atlanta, Columbus, Florida, Phoenix would have killed for that kind of “luck”?
Of course I want wins. Of course I want consistency. But I don’t think that as a fan I’m somehow entitled to it, nor do I make it a condition of my fandom. And quite frankly, the success we’ve had so far ought to buoy us through some tough times and some inconsistency. Otherwise I think perhaps we’d earn the right to be branded bandwagoners or fair-weather fans.
And personally, as a native North Carolinian who has followed successful and unsuccessful sports in my state for more years than I’ll care to admit publicly, I take offense to the notion that people here aren’t smart enough or don’t care enough or aren’t passionate enough fans to be able to weather some adversity.
Adversity is reality. Every team has to deal with it from time to time.
It’s your collective prerogative to feel this team lives on the razor’s edge of extinction. You’re entitled to your opinion. I’ve now exercised ad nauseam as to why I don’t share that opinion. But the way you feel about it is actually quite okay with me, as long as the notion of doom and gloom compels you to support the team instead of letting its demise become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on May 25, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree with all the good things…and there are many. The All Star Weekend to me was one of the best weekend’s for sports that I ever experienced.
I, in arguments with folks from back home in PA point to youth hockey all the time here. In fact, nearly everything you have said about the good things here I bring up. It’s fun to also point out how the Canes actually have had a stronger ownership history than the Pens…and to see how my family and friends back home…take a second and go..yeah you’re right. :-p
I’m not a gloom and doomer – yeah I can be cynical at times about the team – but I think that’s probably my own personality than anything. And of course, I’ll be at games next year and the year after
I guess that I don’t want there to be any doubt from anyone on the viability of this market and of the franchise…and I know of how much potential there is….that I want the rest of hockey top be jealous that this little market in North Carolina has teh best and most successful franchise there is.
Because I really do believe it can be so.
by Adam's Journey on May 25, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. You just reinforced why I don’t believe this team is on that razor thin line.
:)
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on May 25, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately I work in an industry where large corporation backruptcy and the closing of mills is becoming commonplace. It is a very complex business.
Friedman makes good points in his article about arena ownership/renting and the fact that Atlanta seems unwilling to pony up $25 million a year as Glendale does, but his assumption that there is little support for the Thrashers in Georgia is false.
The Thrashes have failed for one reason and one reason only, poor management. The team has been a Cap Floor team for the majority of their time in Atlanta, no team can be successful in that situation. Nobody wants to see a losing team with owners that are unwilling to spend any money to fix things. The Canes would be in the same or worse position if they didn’t win a Cup and have ownership that at one time was willing to put in the cash to build a winning team and attract fans. The Thrashers have a great young group of guys right now, they have been pretty much on par with the Canes for the past two years spending tens of millions less.
My main problem with this situation is how it is being handled with the fans. I go to many Thrasher’s games a year and follow them pretty closely, this is largely a shock to the fans and the city. Everyone knew the owners wanted to sell, nobody suspected they would be sold to Winnipeg on such short notice. The fact that they are still having their “Select-a-seat” program for the STH tomorrow is a slap in the face to the Thrasher faithful.
It is of my opinion that Bettman would love to have one of the richest men in the World (David Thomson) as an owner. I feel that want is giving him pretty good incentive to make it much easier to move a club like the Thrashers who has ownership willing to sell immediately instead of taking the time to find a local owner. If Thomson wants the team bad enough, I’m confident he could out-bid any local owner… What is the margin of value that Bettman places on keeping a local market which he has said time and time again.
There is no local buyer “in negotiations”. No firm offer has been exended from a local buyer.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on May 20, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Negotiations and a firm offer are two different things. There are group(s) that are in discussions with the Thrashers who want to keep the team in Atlanta.
Discussions and negotiations are not equal terms either.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on May 20, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The fact that it was reported that Smith has been trying to buy the three properties of Atlanta Spirit for a while would lead me to believe they have moved past “discussions” and are in the negotiating phase, even though there hasn’t been a firm offer.
I’m sure you’re right. You seem like a very astute business person. You probably have a LOT more experience negotiating business offers and contracts than I do. Carry on. Sorry to interrupt.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
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by Jamie Kellner on May 20, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Atlanta
If you think about it and have spent any time in Atlanta, you would think that the market would be just right for building a ravenous hockey following. The population is a melting pot from around the USA and world with enough diversity to draw in 20K fans on a given night. Some of the problem may be the location of Phillips. Perhaps the Thrashers would have been better served to build their own arena in Alpharetta, Marietta, or maybe Gwinnett Co…maybe Buckhead (closer to downtown).
Maybe this just accentuates the need for a winning formula to build the initial interest. The Canes are proof of that with the series of deep runs the org has had. Being a fan during an NHL playoff run certainly builds loyalty and interest and spawns many a new hockey fan.
2 years to the Cup
Regardless of the politics of the Atlanta situation… I wonder how many of the players will refuse to go to Winnipeg and force a trade. When Phoenix was the target, there were multiple players who said they would not go to Winnipeg… I can imagine the situation will be the same with some of the Thrashers. I wouldn’t blame them, I wouldn’t want to move there either. Byfuglien in particular (who really loves living in Atlanta) might be a little ticked seeing as he just signed a mega-deal with them.
They have a few solid D options that the Canes should look at if upgrade-through-trade is a route they are looking at.
You say you wouldn’t want to move to Winnipeg. How many times have you been there? The average summer temperatures May thru September are 73 degrees. It is often nicknamed “Winterpeg” but the cold tends to be dry alabeit windy. Ottawa and Edmonton are to me colder but that hasn’t stopped some talented players enjoying playing there ( e.g. Gretzky, Messier).
To me Atlanta has always lacked the charm of many southern cities and is one of my least favourite. But then again look at many major sports franchises. Would you really want to live in Detroit? Houston? LA? It is unfair to single out any city and say “I wouldn’t blame them” with respect to wanting to go there. Players get drafted, get traded and they go where their contact obligations make them go until they are free agents. And if it was all about the beauty and quality of the city then every free agent in various sports would beating down the doors to go to places like San Diego, etc. No one would want Pittsburg or Philly or New Jersey and we all know that is simply not the case.
sittler27, all great points; but I do respectfully wonder if there isn’t just the slightest bit of Canadian pride also at play in your response. I have heard only great things about Winnipeg and Quebec and am glad one now has an NHL team apparently. I wish it were by expansion because I think there are more than ample talented, if not Crosby level, hockey players to field two more teams. I am sorry, however, that Altanta’s ownership and fans didn’t do a better job in Atlanta.
Different people, different preferences. Personally, I love living in Atlanta (although I’m barely ever home) and the bigger city aspect has an appeal to me. Just my personal preference. I could easily see many of the players on the Thrashers wanting to move closer to home (and to a bigger fanbase), but I’m certain that many of the Thrashers have grown accustomed to life in Atlanta and really love it down there. I have a little pride for my hometown as well… Plenty of bad things to be said about Atlanta but the culture there is really amazing if you get the chance to stay there for a long period of time. You can find pretty much everything and every type person in the World there… It is a melting pot like few others.
I wasn’t knocking Winnipeg, was not my intention, but the cities and locations are very different. Would be a big change for anybody.
Just playing Devil’s Advocate, but your two big name free agents you named are from nearly 30 years ago.
by Iggy Reilly on May 22, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Hurricanes Fan From Winnipeg
As a guy that has been a Whaler/Hurricanes fan since the 80’s…and remember as a kid getting autographs from the visiting Whalers at the old Winnipeg Arena…. I couldn’t be any more excited about the return of the NHL to Winnipeg! It’s about time!!! The fact that they could be placed in the SouthEast Div in their first season….I’m so happy I could cry!!! Do you know how many times I will get to see the Hurricanes in person this next season! WOOOOOOO!!! I am…and ALWAYS will be a Hurricanes fan first….but aside from when those two are playing each other…. I will be a “Jets??” fan! WELCOME BACK TO THE BIG SHOW WINNIPEG!! Oh yes……by the way……..Go Canes Go :)
by HowieHurricane on May 21, 2011 10:36 AM EDT reply actions
Thanks – We’ll be looking for you in the stands when the Canes first visit the Manitoba Arena. Maybe you’ll even be posting photos? Are you on twitter by chance? I’d love to get your perspective that way as things happen there.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on May 22, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Human Lightning Bolt
Now I know that airport shenanigans are nothing new for Hurricanes fans, but the human lightning bolt to see the Lightning off at the airport this morning is pretty cool.
Phoblographer and Finn Aficionado
SISU
Nashville before Columbus
I could see Nashville filling Atlanta’s spot in the southeast before Columbus.
which would make our division a hell of a lot more tougher with the preadtors in it.
Columbus and Detroit travel the most miles of anyone in the NHL and both are EST teams (Nashville is CST). I think it will be one of these two. Detroit has been promised a move to the Eastern Conference if a spot opened up in the past. Unfortunately for us, most predicted movements of Detroit to the Eastern Conference have Pittsburgh moving to the SE which would make for a ridiculous division.
I think the NHL would go for it too… They love to hype the Crosby vs. Ovechkin rivalry and having it 6 times a year would probably be a wet dream for them.
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