Canes Country Mock Draft, Version Three - Cory's Pick
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 22, 2011 11:23 AM EDT
Email
PrintFor two straight seasons, Carolina has made a somewhat surprising selection with their first round pick, taking projected second-rounder Philippe Paradis in 2009, and passing onhighly touted defenders Cam Fowler and Brandon Gormley to take undersized sniper Jeff Skinner at No. 7 in 2010.
It's not often that the results are already in just a year or two after a draft, but most would agree that the selection of Paradis — who lasted less than six months before being dealt to Toronto for another former first round pick, Jiri Tlusty — will go down as a bust, while picking Skinner, a Calder Trophy finalist, is already an obvious home run. Will Carolina again raise eyebrows and go off the board in Minnesota, home of the 2011 Entry Draft? Or will GM Jim Rutherford and Co. fall in line with the scouting services and experts and take one of the consensus best available players?
Even here at Canes Country, opinions are varied. Bob Wage went off the board, tabbing teeny Rocco Grimaldi — who some have as a top-10 pick, while others like Central Scouting expect him to go on Day 2 — as Carolina's choice at No. 12. Site newcomer Lee Phillips was a little safer, choosing Finn Joel Armia — a consensus top-20 player — as Carolina's choice. Me? Here's my look on how things will go down in the first round.
1. Edmonton Oilers: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, C, Red Deer (WHL) — To be honest, I think the Oilers need a defenseman (see next pick) more than another forward, but there's nothing wrong with taking the guy most people think is the best in the draft.
2. Colorado Avalanche: Adam Larsson, D, Skellefea (Sweden) — Want to succeed? Stabilize your defense. After already adding former first overall pick Erik Johnson during last season, the Avalanche get even stronger with Larsson, who could step into the lineup as early as next year.
3. Florida Panthers: Jonathan Huberdeau, C/LW, Saint John (QMJHL) — The Panthers needs winners, and Huberdeau was the best player on the Memorial Cup-winning Sea Dogs. Florida hasn't selected many QMJHL players, but they'll make an exception here.
4. New Jersey Devils: Gabriel Landeskog, LW, Kitchener (OHL) — This shouldn't be a tough one for Lou Lamoriello. Landeskog was mentioned as a possible first overall pick relatively recently, and he could perhaps help the Devils as early as next year.
5. New York Islanders: Sean Couturier, C, Drummondville (QMJHL) — The Isles wouldn't mind moving down from this spot, but I'm not going to speculate on any trades. If they pick here, Couturier is a great playmaker that would make a good one-two punch down the middle with John Tavares — or as a pivot for Tavares is he moves to the wing down the road.
6. Ottawa Senators: Ryan Strome, C, Niagara (OHL) — Speaking of trades, the Sens are armed with five picks — including two on Friday — in the first two rounds and would love to move up. Assuming they can't, Strome is a solid consolation prize for a team in need of forwards.
7. Winnipeg: Dougie Hamilton, D, Niagara (OHL) — Hamilton slides a little and the no-name team from WInnipeg is the beneficiary. Hamilton is a prototypical 21st century defender — he's a big, strong, solid skater who is willing to be physical and can chip in offensively.
8. Columbus Blue Jackets: Mika Zibanejad, C, Djurgardens (Sweden) — The Jackets' search for a No. 1 center to complement Rick Nash continues. It could come by trading this pick — perhaps as part of a package for Philly's Jeff Carter? — but if they select here, Zibanejad could prove to be the missing pivot for the Columbus captain.
9. Boston Bruins: Ryan Murphy, D, Kitchener (OHL) — To me, no pick makes more sense in the draft than Murphy heading to Beantown. The Bruins need offensive help on the back end, and Murphy could be that guy in a season or two.
10. Minnesota Wild: Duncan Siemens, D, Saskatoon (WHL) — The Wild will likely be returning to their defense-first ways next season, so choosing Siemens would be a good starting point. Some might think this is too soon for Siemens or that the Finn-loving Wild will again look to Scandanavia, but D is the need here.
11. Colorado Avalanche: Sven Bartschi, LW, Portland (WHL) — Last year, it was Winterhawks' Swiss forward Nino Niederreiter who a hot topic at the draft. Bartschi, also from Switzerland, burst on the North American scene and outperformed Niederreiter in Portland. Having a defenseman in Larsson already in the fold, the Avs get their forward.
12. Carolina Hurricanes: Mark McNeill, C, Prince Albert (WHL) — For the third straight year, the Canes reach a bit, this time for McNeill. He already has an NHL body, and the Canes love players who like to hit the weight room and have good hockey sense. McNeill fits.
13. Calgary Flames: Nathan Beaulieu, D, Saint John (QMJHL) — The Flames need prospect help everywhere and new GM Jay Feaster has never been shy about taking defensemen early. Enter Beaulieu.
14. Dallas Stars: Mark Scheifele, C, Barrie Colts (OHL) — A small dropoff occurs after pick No. 12, so Dallas could go a lot of different ways here. Scheifele would be a good choice — he's hard working and has excelled despite playing on a subpar Colts team.
15. New York Rangers: Rocco Grimaldi, C, U.S NTDP — The Rangers have done well with U.S. born players. While Grimaldi is just 5'6, he's a battler with immense skill. And who can't get behind a guy named Rocco playing in the Big Apple?
16. Buffalo Sabres: J.T. Miller, LW, U.S. Under-18 — Sabres fans would love the hard-working Miller in their lineup. Although he is more of a role player than top-line talent, Miller could be a great glue guy.
17. Montreal Canadiens: Jonas Brodin, D, Farjestad (Sweden) — Brodin would be a great foil to current Hab P.K. Subban. Both are magnificent skaters, but Brodin's poise, patience and discipline would make for a great match with Subban's creativity, emotion and flair for the dramatic.
18. Chicago Blackhawks: Oscar Klefbom, D, Farjestad (Sweden) — Chicago may have to wait a little while for the raw defender, but it wil be worth the wait. He possesses the size, skill and instincts needed in a top-flight defender.
19. Edmonton Oilers: Jamie Oleksiak, D, Northeastern (Hockey East) — By passing on Larsson earlier, the Oilers pretty much committed to getting a defenseman with their second first round pick. Oleksiak is a risk — everyone wants to compare any tall defenseman to Zdeno Chara or Tyler Myers — but he could end up being an absolute steal.
20. Phoenix Coyotes: Joel Armia, RW, Assat (Finland) — Armia is a bit of a gentle giant, possessing the frame of a power forward but lacking the will to impose himself on opponents. Still, he possesses tremendous skill and, with consistent effort, could be a star.
21. Ottawa Senators: Nicklas Jensen, LW/RW, Oshawa (OHL) — This pick could be part of a deal to get the Senators higher than their earlier pick at No. 6. If it's not, Jensen could be a partial replacement for aging legend Daniel Alfredsson. He combines size with two-way responsibility.
22. Anaheim Ducks: Connor Murphy, D, U.S. Under-18 — After having Fowler and Emerson Etem fall in their lap last year, the Ducks have a tougher decision this time around. Murphy comes from hockey bloodlines (his dad, Gord, had a long playing career and eight years as an NHL assistant) and he should contribute in all situations.
23. Pittsburgh Penguins: Tyler Biggs, RW, U.S. Under-18 — The Penguins have plenty of skill in the fold, so adding a gritty player like Biggs from nearby Ohio seems like a winning decision.
24. Detroit Red Wings: Joe Morrow, D, Portland (WHL) — Nicklas Lidstrom is coming back for another season, but that doesn't mean Detroit isn't in need of more depth on the blueline. Morrow isn't going to replace Lidstrom in any way, but he should be a reliable bottom pairing defender.
25. Toronto Maple Leafs: Brandon Saad, LW, Saginaw (OHL) — This might not seem like a Brian Burke-type pick as Saad's jam is sometimes questioned. But if he's properly motivated, Saad could be a great find this late.
26. Washington Capitals: Viktor Rask, C, Leksand (Sweden) — Rask has slid down many draft boards, but the Caps will see value at taking a chance on the talented forward.
27. Tampa Bay Lightning: David Musil, D, Vancouver (WHL) — Like Connor Murphy, Musil has a good pedigree. His father played in the NHL and his uncle is Bobby Holik, and Musil's game is somewhat like Holik's, While he's a defenseman rather than a center, Musil makes life difficult on his opponents and is rarely outworked.
28. San Jose Sharks: Zack Phillips, C, Saint John (QMJHL) — Opinions vary on Phillips. The Hockey News ranks him ninth in this year's class, while International Scouting Services places him 34th. The question is if Phillips' success was due to his teammates. The good news is the Sharks always seem to have a good supporting cast.
29. Vancouver Canucks: Boone Jenner, C, Oshawa (OHL) — The Canucks are at a crossroads after losing Game 7 of the Cup Finals on their home ice. Jenner may not get to Vancouver in time to be part of this group of contenders, but he will fit well in due to his effort and determination.
30. Toronto Maple Leafs: Scott Mayfield, D, Youngstown (USHL) — If the Leafs can't move higher in the draft as they desire, then they will focus on size and speed. Mayfield fits that mold. He has an NHL frame and is an excellent skater for his size.
59 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Like the Draft… Agree with pretty much every pick. If we walk out of Friday with one of McNeill, Beaulieu, Z-Bad or Murphy I will be a happy camper.
I saw your tweet about last years “Re-Draft” on TSN. What a bunch of crap! Seguin #1 after a few good playoff games and a season of mediocrity while Skinner gets the shaft. I think Skinner and Johansen will probably end up as the 2 best players from last year.
by JussiJuice on Jun 22, 2011 12:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Also, hysterical that Seguin was listed ahead of Hall based on those couple of playoff games.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 22, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope Ryan Sproul is available for us in the 2nd Round as well… Raw prospect with size (6’3", 170 lbs) who was one of the best if not the best D in the OHL during the 2nd half of the season (finished ahead of Ryan Murphy and behind Ryan Ellis in scoring). His stock have risen to the 1st Round because of it, but most mock Drafts have him in our range.
Would be another solid 2nd Round D steal that the Canes have become accustomed to.
I think Skinner and Johansen will probably end up as the 2 best players from last year.
Disagree, it will be Hall if he can stay healthy, I watched him a lot this year, he flat out dominates when he gets going.
He seems like he will end up relying on having an elite centerman whereas Skinner gets it done all by himself. Granted, give him an elite Center (RNH perhaps) and he could be a 40-50 goal winger. Just from what I have seen, granted you probably watch more Edmonton games then I do. Even if Hall stayed healthy this whole year I still don’t think he would have won the Calder or have been the best 18-year old.
Skinner gets it done all by himself
He does, but not like Hall, Hall so much more explosive whereas Skinny’s deceptive and shifty. Hall gets to top speed in about 4 steps and when he gets there, there’s only handful of players that can skate with him, so I think Hall’s harder to contain in open ice whereas around the net Skinner’s more dangerous. Both will score a lot of goals differently. I think it would have been really close had Hall stayed healthy, he was really starting to find his game before he got hurt.
McNeill is a great choice
I agree. McNeill is an excellent fit for the Hurricanes. Again, I’d love to see the Canes trade second round picks to move up to take another player in the first round, such as Jensen, Scheifele, Rask, Biggs, or Jenner. The later round picks are going to be good NHL players I think.
I like the McNeil pick but other big forwards too
Basically, whichever of the good-sized top forwards the Canes’ like best. McNeil seems to answer multiple needs or at least might someday. Armia is intriguing too. Jensen always seems to be rated lower than the others but he is about Armia’s size and is the most impressive of the lot on the video I’ve seen, though Armia looks good too.
I like the picks in this mock draft overall but think Oleksiak is going to go higher because he brings rare size and will have enough skill to let a guy that big play at a pretty high level someday in the NHL.
The Canes have obviously worked through all the possibilities by now and know which player they’ll take on every scenario. It will be fascinating to see which way they decide to go, especially if a highly ranked player like Murphy starts to fall.
Wonder what the algorithm is like. Perhaps:
1. If any player in our top 8 is still on the board, we take him.
2. If our top-ranked players are all gone and we have one guy rated best, we take him.
3. But if we have several guys ranked the same, we go with a player who is:
a. a North American
b. in a position of value (center over wing)
c. capable of bringing something to the Canes that the Canes don’t have, such as:
i. possible top pairing D-man with size and skill
ii. possible scoring forward with size
And if none of that works out, take:
iii. a solid 2-way player who will make the NHL 3 years from now
iv. a player with some exceptional quality or skill – such as monster size or flat-out speed or deft passing or puck handling – that will rank with the best in the NHL.
That progression descends from getting a top player to getting a good player of a type the Canes don’t have to getting a solid well-rounded player to going for a player with one truly outstanding quality.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 22, 2011 4:31 PM EDT reply actions
Good point with Oleksiak. 29 teams in the NHL just watched Chara shut down Vancouver’s high powered offense wishing they had what he brings.
I think he goes before we pick, very possibly to Boston which woulds create one of the scariest pairings in the league in a few years.
by JussiJuice on Jun 22, 2011 4:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
29 teams also watched Boris Valabik go thru waivers last year. Chara is so much more than height.
by Cory Lavalette on Jun 22, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed… But you aren’t going to get a 6’7" monster like Chara from a guy who is 6’0". Chara’s height and size is one of the main things which makes him such a defensive presence. All about risk vs. reward, I personally think that the risk vs. reward on Oleksiak will draw teams early on.
The problem with Boris Valabik and most bust prospects with that kind of size is their skating. By most accounts, Oleksiak is much more Tyler Myers and much less Boris Valabik.
Dallas willing to trade 14th pick for lower picks
It might not be bad to come away from this draft with McNeil/Sheifele and Olieksiak/Beaulieu or McNeil/Scheifele and Armia/Jensen/Miller/Biggs/Grimaldi. Grimaldi might be a lot more appealing if the Canes have already landed a big forward. Two good big forwards would make a huge change in the Canes’ system. For that matter, you might be able to get Beaulieu and Olieksiak and the future defensive corps would look stellar.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 23, 2011 11:33 AM EDT reply actions
Trading Picks
I think it would be a great move for the Hurricanes to get McNeil/Schiefele/Armia/Zibanejad and then Jensen/Miller/Biggs. It would be that trading back or bundling second round picks would accomplish that task. I continue to believe this draft is far deeper than many scouts and GMs predicted. It’s a chance to further transform the Hurricanes into a top six tier team.
Real Question Doug
Given JR’s comments about trades and throwing in prospects, given the thinking that Dalpe is the top prospect at forward, and Boychuck somehow isn’t as exciting, would this trade be worth sending Boychuck to Dallas with one or tow second rounders to get the 12th and 14th spots this year for us???
My take is yes, given we’re going to re-sign LaRose (small) and we already have Skinner as core (smallish), JR says he’ll sign Stillman if Jussi departs, there seems to be no good fit for Boychuck here…
I doubt Dallas would trade that pick for Boychuk and a 2nd. Boychuk hasn’t proved anything in the NHL yet. He hasn’t played enough to settle the issue of whether he’s talented enough to overcome his size at the NHL level.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 23, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Boychuk and the view by others in the NHL
For whatever reason some people at Canes Country have a far different view of Boychuk’s upside than the view held by a number of commentators. For example, Denis Potvin, who is an NHL Hall of Fame player and a very well-respected hockey announcer, was effusive in his praise of Boychuk during the tv broadcast of the Ottawa game in which Boychuk scored two goals. I would shocked if Dallas turned down Boychuk and a second for its pick. Dallas has plenty of size and needs a creative, fast, offensive wing.
I think Jim Rutherford has to decide what kind of team he wants. Boychuk, I believe, will be an excellent top six forward; but he is not going to be a player who destroys opponents by becoming a human missile. He is not the next Ruutu. The question is does Jim Rutherford believe Boychuk’s skill set matches the way he wants the Hurricanes to play. If it were me, I would probably not make the trade. Then again, I had Joe Colborne as the Canes first round pick and not Boychuk. At the time, I thought Colborne would bring more of what the Hurricanes needed than Boychuk. I’ve been won over by Boychuk; but then again I’ve watched almost endless hours of AHL hockey.
I don’t understand the desire by Jim Rutherford to re-sign LaRose above re-signing Jokinen. I also think there is simply a limit to how many small forwards any one NHL team can put on the ice, no matter how excellent each small forward is. At some point, the body of work reaches critical mass; and the team gets manhandled. My prediction is that Boychuk is not traded; and that he has the kind of year in 2011-2012 that I expected him to have in 2010-2011.
If I were GM, and if I wanted to field a team of beasts to go along with Skinner and Dalpe, yes, I’d make the trade to get the 12th and 14th pick. If it were me, however, with the team the Hurricanes have, I’d keep Boychuk and I’d switch lines around but would start with Boychuk/Staal/Cole; Skinner/Ruutu/Dalpe; McNeill – Zibanejad – Armia/Sutter/Tlusty; Bowman/Carter (or other 4th line center via UFA)/Bodie + Samson. I’d move Skinner up with Staal and Cole when I needed to kick start Staal. I am assuming Jokinen, LaRose, Stillman, and Dwyer are all not re-signed.
Boychuk might well have an excellent 2011-2012 but he’s got to be given a chance for that to happen. He hasn’t had the chance to prove himself. That doesn’t mean he can’t prove himself given the chance.
You’re dead right about a limit to the number of small forwards an NHL team can carry. Next to Skinner, Boychuk is by far the most talented of the Canes’ little guys, but he also seems to be the one that the Canes value least. Why draft a Zach Boychuk if you have a coach who wants him to play exactly like Tuomo Ruutu? Why not draft another Ruutu or get a coach who can use the players you drafted?
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 23, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t see Boychuk playing against checking lines or top-pairing NHL D any time soon unless he puts on about 20 lbs of muscle. From what I watched last year, he was getting pushed around in the AHL. The NHL would be ten times worse. He has offensive skills no doubt, but he just seems too weak to be anywhere near the 1st line at this time.
Boychuk took something like 39% of his shifts in 2010-2011 on the first line with Staal and Cole. Yes, he needs to get stronger and he needs to work on his offensive creativity. The point is, however, that when Denis Potvin is raving over a player, and the player happens to score two key goals in the game, that assessment carries gravitas as far as I am concerned. If all the talented AHL and NHL 21 year olds who were pushed around either at the AHL level (which is hardly officiated at all) or at the NHL level were put into the stands of the RBC, it would be a pretty good crowd. It’s the exception and not the rule for 21 year olds to have their man strength.
Any Rookie scoring two goals in one game will get plenty of praise. Unfortunately he only scored 4 in 23 games against some of the worst defenses in the league (Islanders, Ottawa, Florida). I don’t think it helps his case that he got so few points playing largely with Cole and Staal.
by JussiJuice on Jun 23, 2011 8:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What I know is the Denis Potvin was singing his praises during a broadcast of the game. I regard Potvin as an hockey expert and believe he is able to discern the skill set of players he watched. Whether others agree with him or not is a different question. Whether he was correct or not in his evaluation of Boychuk also remains to be seen. Potvin’s pedigree and knowledge of hockey is inarguable. I listen to Potvin frequently on XMHome Ice. I’ve always found him to be highly balanced and analytical rather than emotional about players. I don’t dismiss his praise as being somehow overcome by the moment.
Agree with Doug—given his ice time and linemates for a lot of those games (and which stars for our team scored on those worst defenses so easily? Last I looked we didn’t sweep our series against any of them…) He wasn’t going to score each game.
Realize a 20-25 goal scorer ( a good commodity on any team) scores a goal once every four games or so—less if you figure there will be multi goal games… And those goals from NHL vets come with top line minutes and better linemates than Boychuck has for the preponderance of his NHL debuts. For that matter, compare him to Grabner. Two teams gave up on him, one team gave him top time—but even then it took him until later in the season for him to really get his scoring hat on. It takes time to learn the game at the NHL level.
I’m not singing Boychuck’s praises, but I agree he has the talent. I’m not convinced he fit’s with Mo’s philosophies, or the current mix we have on the team unless he makes it with Staal and Cole—they need a puck handling playmaker—like a Whitney, or Stillman. Boychuck is that type of player, but I have no idea if he’ll be given the chance in that role to see if he suceeds.
Therefore, given this team’s make-up, and our coach, I was thinking it would be better all around to trade him and get an assett that fits more places and works with Mo’s player desires.
Boychuk’s skill is evident. I just don’t think he would survive a full season playing other team’s checking lines and top-pairing D night after night on the 1st line. It would be hard for any Rookie… One that is 5’10, 180 lbs and gets pushed around easily… Just seems impractical. I’d rather see Dalpe up there.
I like that idea. Picking up Beaulieu and McNeill fills the two biggest needs the Canes have with guys who are likely only 1 year off. I wonder what it would cost though, I doubt our 2nd + 3rd equals 14th Overall. Maybe adding SJ 2nd Round pick next year would do it.
I also like the Oleksiak + Beaulieu option. Our forward corps are a little undersized but good enough as is for a Playoff team. Our D is what is really lacking.
by JussiJuice on Jun 23, 2011 12:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Obviously it would depend on what Dallas wants and there’s no telling. They’re not going to get a Brad Richards replacement at 14 though they probably could replace James Neal. Maybe this is all about budget-cutting for a team whose ownership defaulted on loans. They may want prospects that they wouldn’t be under pressure to sign this year or they may want future choices to attract new owners.
I like the idea of the Canes’ trading this year’s and next year’s second rounders for a second pick in the first half of the first round this year. I might even give up 3 second rounders if that’s what it took, using the San Jose pick. Here’s why I think this might make sense:
1. the case AD has made for filling two holes instantly or solving the big forward problem once and for all
2. the fact that the Canes’ took 3 second round picks last year. It’s as though they’ve got lots of good players in the pipeline and need to shoot for a couple of guys who are better than good to accelerate rebuilding – it’s like adding cream at the top after filling the glass.
3. the depth of the overall prospect pool and doubt that this year’s and next year’s second rounder are going to make the squad in the foreseeable future
4. I still see the draft as the only way for a budget team to get a squad with top-level talent. Can’t afford top free agents so there’s a premium on getting draftees as near the top as possible.
5. If the Canes miss the playoffs, they’ll be unloading Ruutu at the trade deadline for at least a 2nd round pick and also getting picks for Gleason, Corvo and Allen. Odds of the Canes keeping Ruutu on any scenario seem slim given his pay level.
You could argue that the Canes already have two elite talents at forward and can fill in the rest by keeping RFAs and graduating players from the pipeline. There are probably no elite talents on D, not even Faulk and Dumoulin. The team will never be able to afford a number 1 defenseman. That suggests it might make sense drafting two really promising defensemen with strong top-pairing potential.
Depending on who’s still there and who they like, the Canes could take Beaulieu and Oleksiak, Murphy and Klefbom, Klefbom and Siemens, Olieksiak and Murphy, Klefbom and Oleksiak, etc. – whichever pair of defenders the Canes think might make a first pairing down the road, with McBain, Dumoulin, Faulk and the best of the rest filling out the roster. With McBain and Faulk both definitely in the PMD category, it might make sense for the Canes to make sure they get at least one big shut-down defensive prospect.
I’m trying not to think about what will happen when some of these guys play really well and become RFAs and then UFAs. The Canes have to use them while they’ve got ’em – but first they have to get ’em.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 23, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been thinking about what the Canes plan to do with Ruutu. On one hand he fills an invaluable role of banger with top-6 ability. On the other he has never really been mentioned as part of the invaluable “core”, will probably outprice himself as a UFA for the Canes, and makes $4.4 million this year.
I wonder if he earns his spot in JR’s core, is traded at the deadline, or is traded early as the Canes have done before with contracts of increasing value like his. We can’t continue to let UFAs walk for nothing, another 1st and couple seconds this year would have made a huge difference (as AD said in the Biggs, Jensen, Saad range)
by JussiJuice on Jun 23, 2011 2:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Never mentioning Ruutu as part of the core is pretty telling. I’d rather hear JR say that Ruutu is part of the core. JR isn’t saying it because he doesn’t expect to keep Ruutu around. How else can we interpret that? The Canes as an organization have a class system. Draftees like Staal, Ward, Skinner and Sutter are the upper class – the core. The rest are temporary fill-ins. That’s the message in naming a handful of players to the “core” and consigning the rest to nameless insignificance. Ruutu, who is an excellent player, gives his all and gives the Canes some things that Staal, Skinner and Sutter don’t, is passing through, like almost everybody else.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 23, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
If that is the case, it pains me to say it but I’d rather him be traded sooner (like at the Draft) and we try to replace him with a younger, more long-term solution like Jakub Voracek or a high Draft pick. Ruutu’s intangibles make him extremely valuable, other teams have noticed.
by JussiJuice on Jun 23, 2011 3:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’ll hate it if Ruutu goes. Voracek wouldn’t replace him. There are few players with Ruutu’s combination of scoring and physical play and that constant upbeat energy.
Besides, Voracek is a Flyer now.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 23, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Voracek is now unavailable
He’s a Flyer and will replace Carter or Richards… Philly wanted more size up front. (At leat they did something about it)
Darren Dreger reporting Robyn Regehr asked to waive NTC for a trade to Buffalo. One of the better stay at home D in the league, type of guy the Canes need.
by JussiJuice on Jun 23, 2011 3:04 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Here’s a crazy trade Mike Richards to LA for Brayden Schenn and Wayne Simmonds…..and Philly has the 8th….wow
Do they take Zibanejad with the 8th pick to replace Richards, or one of the big d-men to replace Pronger?
The Carter and Richards trades really shake up the Flyers and the East. Young talent has to come through for the Flyers or they will no longer be an elite team. Meanwhile, the Blue Jackets with Carter and Nash and Johansen will be competitive, and the Kings may be terrific. Kopitar and Richards are an amazing combination at center. So much change to three teams at once makes the head spin.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 23, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think with Schenn, Giroux, Simmonds, Van Riemsdyk (sp), Versteeg, and Voracek that Philly will definitely go for a D at 8. That is a pretty damn good collection of young top-6 forwards.
Who knows which one though. My guess is either Hamilton (if available), Beaulieu, or a suprise pick with Oleksiak or Klefbom. I doubt they jump on Murphy, Holmgren seems pretty set on huge D.
Based on that list of Flyers’ young forward talent, I can’t resist comparing Canes’ young forward talent. The Canes still have Eric Staal and the Flyers no longer have Jeff Carter or Mike Richards. True, Staal is 26, but Versteeg is on the Flyers’ list and he’s 25.
Compare the Flyers’ young forwards to Staal, Skinner, Sutter, Dalpe, Boychuk, Bowman, Tlusty, Riley Nash.
Giroux scored 25 goals, Versteeg 21, Van Riemsdyk 21, Voracek 14 playing with Rick Nash, Simmonds 14, Schenn 0.
Lots of unknowns on both lists. More sure top goal scoring talent on the Canes though, with Staal having 33 goals and Skinner 31. More players with proven NHL scoring talent in Philly. Sutter’s got 14 like Voracek and Simmonds. Dalpe, Boychuk, Bowman, Tlusty and Nash are all essentially down there with Schenn. But what if Dalpe scores 25 goals and Boychuk 20?
I think the gap between Flyers’ talent at forward and Canes’ talent has shrunk a lot. The Flyers gave up TWO 66-pt scorers from last season. Will Giroux score as well when other teams are trying to shut down his line instead of Carter’s or Richards’?
The Flyers do still have Briere, who is a terrific player. I left him out because he’ll be 34 in October. The Canes have no 30+ vet in Briere’s class, but Briere won’t last forever. All this changes if the Flyers are about to sign Brad Richards.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 23, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting comparison
The bad news is Rutherford is getting ready to let a 25 goal/55-60 point forward depart from our team as well—but in our case without a replacment ….
…and I trust Lavi to better use and get better results form the offensive forward talent than I do Mo…
Agree with your point about Lavi and offensive forward talent, especially young offensive forward talent. But I still think Lavi will have a hard time getting all the pieces to fit in Philly right away and will probably get canned. Anybody would have a hard time remaking a team on that scale instantly. Mo will just say no to young offensive forwards unlessed forced to do otherwise. I’m convinced Mo would have sent Skinner to Charlotte for a year or two if he had the option and played any vet he could get his hands on.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 24, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, that may be an over statement. Based on statistics (and actual goal scoring) the Flyers had the deepest lineup of forwards by far in the NHL. They had a top nine where most other teams fielded a top six to top four group of goal scorers. Losing two will hurt a little, but adding Voracek imeediately replaces one, and Brayden Schen or the 8th pick goes a long way to replacing the other. Even the loss of one of Carter or Richards doesn’t hurt their forward production that much…
Personally I think Philly did really well in these trades. Schenn is the #1 rated prospect in the whole NHL by multiple sources. Voracek was drafted 7th in 2007 and obviously hasn’t had the greatest supporting cast in Columbus, but I think he can easily replace the points of Carter.
On top of that they get the 8th overall pick to add another stud, a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder. Plus Wayne Simmonds fits the role of Broad Street Bully to a T.
Now they have the cap space to resign Ville Leino and Ilya Bryzgalov. I don’t care what anyone says, neither Carter nor Richards were super stars, don’t get me wrong I would love to have either of them, but you now have a potential superstar in Schenn in the coming years, Voracek to replace Richards performance, Simmonds to offset some of the points and multiple draft picks. That coupled with a solid goalie (assuming a deal gets done); I think this actually makes Philly better for next year and obviously for years to come.
There’s no way Voracek easily replaces the points of Carter. Voracek has been playing with Rick Nash and hasn’t been able to score that much. When I’ve seen him he’s had impressive size and speed but just doesn’t seem to have quite the level of hand-eye coordination to be a big-time goal scorer like Carter. Voracek also isn’t as physical as you’d expect him to be at his size. If anything, Voracek is a less physical Erik Cole. Both lack that last bit of high-level hand-eye coordination to put the puck in the net as often as you think they should. Voracek seems to maneuver better than Cole but I don’t think he matches Cole’s straight-line speed. Both create a lot more chances than they can finish.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 24, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
True, but size is still size, and Lavi may get more intensity out of Voracek. None of the new trades replace Carter—he’s a skilled 30 goal guy. Schenn may be a better talent once developed. But I like the increased size of Philly to offset the small skilled guys (like Briere) they have. I think Philly got better as a team (better goalie behind a good defense + still potent offense but maybe a little less firepower until the kids develop. But overall, an improved total team.
I disagree. It will be interesting to see how quickly things come together in Philly or whether “quickly” turns out to be the wrong adverb.
One thing that makes the Philly situation interesting is that defense and goalie weren’t really their problems in the regular season. They only allowed 2.63 goals per game despite all their goalie issues and the injury to Pronger. That was 11th best in the league.
Yes, they had scoring to spare with 3.12 goals per game. But it looks as though they’ll be without players (Carter, Richards, Zherdev) who scored 75 of their 256 goals. That is almost 30% of their goal scoring. Voracek, Schenn and Simmonds will make up for some of that, but if Voracek and Simmonds score as they did last year, that replaces 28 of the 75 goals they’re losing from Carter, Richards and Zherdev.
Are they going to get 47 goals from Schenn? Are five of their players going to score 10 goals more than last year? Will Voracek suddenly become a 40-goal scorer when he has averaged 13 goals over three full NHL seasons? I think the Flyers offense takes a big step down, though it will still be good, and their goals against drops a little with Bryzgalov. He allowed 2.48 GPG in Phoenix last year. That’s only about 1/10 of a goal less than Philly allowed without him. I think the Flyers’ average game is going to be a lot closer than it was last year.
Guys like Carter and Richards are not easy to replace. I also expect Giroux and van Riemsdyk to come up against top defenders more often and their production make actually fall.
That said, I think there’s another shoe to drop. The Flyers are going to do something spectacular, like signing Brad Richards.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 24, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I agree their goal scoring will drop. I also agree their goals against will probably drop. Yes, they’ll have less blow outs or large leads, but I doubt their record will suffer too much overall.
I will add this. Coming out of the lock out, Carolina had the same issues you are attributing to the Flyers—new players/vets (Cullen, Whitney, Stillman, Kaberle) new rookies like Cam, We lost Francis, our Captain, yet Lavi got them to come together and work as a team quite well. Think they won the cup. Lavi is the coach of the flyers, and i think he’ll be able to get the team together a little more quickly—especially without Pronger and Richards sharing different leadership views…
Excellent observations. I think one difference between the Canes then and the Flyers now is the proportion of proven vets among the new folks vs. rookies. Still, I wouldn’t rule out Lavi’s pulling off the miracle you’re talking about. He seems to be a very creative coach who adapts to situations and gets the most out of most of the players he gets.
My gut feeling about what the Flyers have done is this: they overreacted to playoff issues caused in large part by injuries, especially to Pronger. At some point in studying their options, they got fed up with being handcuffed by cap issues. They overreacted to their playoff disappointment and overreacted to their cap strains. Giroux and Van Riemsdyk weren’t able to pull out the playoff series when the Flyers had Richards and Carter. Why should we expect Giroux and Van Riemsdyk to do better when they’re the focus of the opposing defense? The biggest thing going for the Flyers is that Pronger might return in good health.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 24, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Compelling analysis of the Flyers' big trades
At least, compelling to me. Puck Prospectus.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 24, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
So does the Philly trade change the dynamic of the draft at all? Will their pick be significantly different than what Columbus would go with? Do they go with a forward or a defenseman and does that change who may be available to the Hurricanes at #12?
Write-ups today suggest they’re going center or D. My hunch is they take a center because they are going to look incredibly stupid if they’re lacking at center after trading Richards and Carter. Zibanejad looks like the best match to me. The new write-up of Zibanejad on the Canes’ site makes me wish the Canes could get him somehow. Among other things, the write-up says Z can play right away.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 24, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Also a chance Philly is open to moving up or down in the Draft as well. I want Ryan Murphy on the Canes in the worst way possible. I think the Canes are convinced he is a difference maker and the best offensive D-man in the Draft. I just hope they have the cajones to sieze the opportunity to move up and nab him if the opportunity is there. A move from 12th to 8th shouldn’t cost more than our 2nd this year or maybe our two 2nd’s next year (ours + SJ).
True, but they’re not nearly as good as they were yesterday. Carter, Richards and Giroux was a pretty spectacular group. Giroux, Schenn and another guy is not in the same class.
by curiouscanesfan on Jun 24, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
For anyone that is interested in the ever changing uniforms of the NHL as well as some really cool concept art for jerseys: http://www.icethetics.info/blog/2011/6/23/predators-new-jerseys-leaked.html.
The attached link is actually a supposed leak of the new Predators jerseys for next season. I personally like them, except for the streak of yellow across the logo is overbearing on the home jerseys.
Great website overall to help with the necessary hockey fix one needs in the off season.
Not a fan of the mustard yellow. At least it stands out from the other NHL jerseys.
by unyieldingflan on Jun 24, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Why the Devils and the Kings are evidence the Capitals shouldn’t trade Alex Ovechkin
- Eulogy: Remembering the 2011-12 New York Rangers
- Stanley Cup Final: 5 keys for New Jersey Devils and Los Angeles Kings
- Friday’s Three Stars: Devils head to Final; Brodeur, Kovalchuk the difference in Game 6
- Devils eliminate Rangers in Game 6, ending fear of the past, setting course for the future
