Did Joe Corvo Make A Mistake With Trade Request?
by Bob Wage on Jul 19, 2011 9:00 AM EDT
in Carolina Hurricanes Analysis
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It's been a wild couple of weeks for the Carolina Hurricanes.
First of all, the organization was able to re-sign Jussi Jokinen, Joni Pitkanen, and Chad LaRose, three players who were supposedly headed for free agency.
Then the club's "priority" signing of the offseason, Erik Cole, ended up moving on to Montreal.
The Canes then moved on themselves and made a few free agent signings of their own in Alexei Ponikarovsky, Tim Brent, and Anthony Stewart. But perhaps the most surprising event of the offseason for the Canes was when Joe Corvo asked to be traded.
It was no secret that Cole and Corvo were best buddies and did everything together, but did Cole's leaving affect Corvo's decision?
The timing of the request certainly was strange as Jim Rutherford said that Corvo's agent made the "soft request" on the weekend immediately after Cole's signing, which was on a Friday afternoon.
After the fact, both players provided similar quotes. At this stage in their careers they wanted a better chance to win, yadda yadda, yadda yadda.
But let's get real for a second here. Cole may have had a secret desire to someday play for his favorite childhood team, but the winger primarily left Carolina because of the money. If Carolina, Florida, or even Winnipeg had offered $18 million and not Montreal, Cole would most likely be singing their praises and would probably be just as happy.
But why did Corvo, after signing on with the Hurricanes just last summer, (with a hometown discount), suddenly feel like he needed to move on? Did the Hurricanes change personnel that much over the course of one year?
Considering the money, Cole made a wise business decision, but what about Corvo and his trade request? Was that also a wise move?
There is no question that the defenseman had a comfort level in Carolina and unlike a couple of his previous stops, was well liked by fans. He played a career high average minutes per game last season, (24:48) and scoring wise, arguably had the best years of his career while in Carolina.
He already requested a trade earlier in his career because of excess scrutiny in Ottawa, where he earned the nickname, "Uh Oh, Corvo" and things did not go well for him during a short stint with the Washington Capitals. Will he suddenly thrive under the bright lights of Boston?
Corvo only had one year left on his contract and even if he didn't see himself in Carolina's long term plans, it might have made better financial sense for him to continue playing top pairing minutes where he was comfortable, so he could drive up his market value and maximize his return for new contract negotiations next summer.
With his request for a trade, he took a calculated risk. Now he will see a lesser role in Boston, get fewer average minutes playing time, and could very well end up receiving lower free agent offers next summer.
Time will tell how the move will work out for him.
Carolina Budget Concerns Costing the Team Assets?
Speaking of the Corvo trade, several fans have been questioning why the Hurricanes only received a fourth round pick for the blueliner. This is the same player that Carolina was able to get a second rounder, a prospect, (Oskar Osala), and a roster player, (Brian Pothier) for just over a year ago at the trade deadline.
Of course, timing is everything. There is not as much of a premium on players during the offseason as there is at trade deadline, but still, a fourth rounder coming back is not much value.
EJ Hradek recently asked Jim Rutherford about this very thing.
The general manager responded that the team could not afford to keep both Corvo and Tomas Kaberle on the roster.
"Through his representative, he (Corvo) already had requested to be traded, so we had something in motion and we thought it best to act on it. There's no guarantee we'd have been able to move him when we needed to before the season started," said the GM.
Hradek went on to say that he didn't think there would be any trouble trading Corvo at a later date, but apparently Rutherford didn't think the same way. In any event, it seems like the pressures of keeping within the budget might have cost Carolina the chance at a better asset. The GM made the deal he had in hand, rather than try to make a better deal, even though he had two months to do so.
Such is one of the hazards of dealing with an apparent, strict budget.
Another recent deal?
The Devils got a 5th round draft pick from Calgary in exchange for a tough guy winger, (Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond) who played two games last season and who has just 37 career NHL games under his belt.
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I understand the reason for the trade request. He definitely had no future with the team and would have likely been trade deadline bait. But going to a team like Boston is going to hurt him because of what you mentioned: he probably won’t play up to his potential there. That will hurt his market value next offseason and he will probably end up taking a lower deal.
+91
Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."
by Sergeant Stinky on Jul 19, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh it's too late baby ,oh it's too late
but Corvo and his agent opened their mouths and got what they wanted…while I feel bad for Joe…but hey…he made his bed…so sleep in the things…I wish him well ..as this fan is foucused on the 2011-2012 season…that has yet to be played…aint got time to worry about ANYTHING after it…but hey…I just a fan…remember ?? LOL
Thanks Cory
What did you do during the summer when the playoffs are over ?
Go Canes & Checkers !!
whooopsi...I ment Bob
and Bob…i sent an email to the the addy you gave me…and so far…no responce…gee you don’t think they are too big to bother do uya …seeing i’m NOT an owner or lessor/lessee of a space of theirs ? Thanks again …
What did you do during the summer when the playoffs are over ?
Go Canes & Checkers !!
I realize the Devils trade was to illustrate the complete lack of value we got in the Corvo trade, but did anyone else notice that he had 21 PIM in only 2 games played??? That’s nuts. Talk about an NHL tough guy.
I asked this in other threads, and I’ll ask it here again: What could the Canes have gotten for Corvo after they signed Kaberle? If they waited to trade Corvo after the Kaberle signing the Canes would have had 8 guys signed to NHL contracts, plus first round pick Ryan Murphy, plus other guys in the system. They’d be in the same position the Devils have been in since the Kovalchuk signing. They would of had to trade players and the rest of the NHL GMs would know and they would make only low ball offers. Maybe the Canes sign Kaberle, hold out, and get a third for Corvo. According to this article by Scott Cullen on the value of draft picks there isn’t a whole lot of difference between pick 61 and 105. Picks 106-120 are lower, but not terribly, especially considering the expected level of player available Holding out nets the Canes a slightly higher pick with the same expected value. If the expected value is the same, why wait? At the very least you take the possibility off the table that you have to move Corvo for a 5th rounder or take back salary.
The trade with Wash was a very unique situation. Corvo was the best PMD on the market, and as such he drew a premium. In many ways, it’s similar to the deal Boston gave up to get Kaberle this past deadline. Both teams overpaid because 1) it was thought that by acquiring another PMD they would be true cup contenders; and 2) getting the player was as important as keeping him from another team.
Furthermore, Pothier was a salary cap throw in, something that wouldn’t have to be done in the off-season. Osala wasn’t really in the long term plans of the Caps.
As far as if Corvo made a mistake, I personally don’t think so. Unless Corvo was having an amazing year there was every possibility that he’d be traded at the deadline. Going to Boston isn’t a bad location. There’s a post cup hangover that makes players look good. There’s an established top pair that will eat up a lot of minutes. Corvo won’t be asked to do more than he’s capable of which means about 17 mintues a game TOI, with some second unit PP and second unit PK time. Help get the puck out of the zone and make the offense slightly better. Boston already has a conservative breakout which means there is always a release valve option for Corvo to make an easy pass if things go bad (this was the problem in Ottawa which was trying to play much more wide open when Corvo got his nickname).
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
that’s a good question, what would JR have gotten if he waited? We’ll never know. While it’s true that other GM’s would know that the Canes would have to deal him eventually, he does have some value as a player, especially as a proven powerplay quarterback.
So, do you think Corvo would be worth more money as a free agent next season playing 17 minutes a game as a second pairing guy for Boston, or playing 24 plus minutes a game for Carolina? (This is assuming he never requested a trade and the Kaberle signing didn’t happen)
Editing Manager of Canes Country.com
I think he gets less, but it really depends on what team wants him and what they’re willing to pay/give up. I’d say on a little more than half of the teams in the NHL he’s not a top pairing dman and on Boston he’s more likely going to play on their 3 d pairing, I don’t imagine they’ll split Boychuk + Ference, seems more likely he’ll start with McQuid. Boston’s not a great fit for him because of where he fits on the depth chart. He would have been a better fit on a budget team, he would have played more minutes and in a more prominent role.
See, now I think Boston is a great fit for him, precisely because of where he does fit in the depth chart. I agree that third pair is where he’ll go, and for the same reasons as above. I think he’ll play a solid game in Boston, especially now that he can play on the PK, and if he can succeed in a big market like Boston that opens up the number of potential suitors for next season. I think he will succeed in Boston because he’s going to be asked to do only what he can do. That’s in many reasons why he’s succeeded in Carolina. JR does a really good job of only asking players to play roles they can play.
I also think the alternative of going to Boston now is better for Corvo than the potential of being traded at the deadline. Given the re-signing of Joni, having McBain as an RFA, and the drafting of Murphy the chances of Corvo coming back next year were slim at best. Figure in too that the Canes could trade Corvo at the deadline, and then bring in Murphy when his season is up and not burn a year of the entry level deal and it ups the chances that Corvo is moved at the deadline, which is a carp shoot for a guy like Corvo.
If he fails in Boston, then all bets are off, but he could just as easily fail in Boston as he could fail if he’s traded after the deadline. At least in Boston he has longer to pull out of his tail spin. A few bad games to start the season can be rectified with a decent playoffs. A few bad games after a trade deadline acquisition can stall him out before he starts, similar to what happened in Washington.
I think JR will get some good will out of this from guys around the league who saw that Corvo was taken care of and sent to a legitimate team. It’s not a tangible benefit, but hopefully it pays off some down the road.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
this is why I think he’ll struggle: not enough minutes and he’ll have to play most of his minutes against 3rd and 4th lines who are typically bigger than he is – Joe doesn’t like getting roughed up. Confidence is paramount for him and if he gets in a slump he’s going to have a much tougher time getting out because of the lack of minutes, plus with Kampfer being pretty close to being ready it doesn’t make it any easier having him in the rear view mirror.
But 3rd and 4th line players are also less skilled and less likely to score which should help Corvo’s stats and limit his times that he’s rushed. Corvo’s gotten much better with the Canes in his positioning and in not forcing things. I think that’s what he’ll be asked to do in Boston at even strength and to eat up a few minutes on the second unit of the PP and PK. His versatility could be very useful to Boston who would perhaps like to play Chara a few less minutes a game so he’s fresher (assuming of course that the beast Chara actually gets tired). There is also not the expectation that Corvo is the solution to the PP.
I completely agree with you that confidence is paramount to Corvo. I think Boston though provides a low risk/ high reward situation for Corvo that gives him the best chance he’s going to get to excel with a contending team.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
But 3rd and 4th line players are also less skilled and less likely to score which should help Corvo’s stats and limit his times that he’s rushed.
By that logic Zach Boychuk, Drayson Bowman, and Zac Dalpe should have lit it up when they played on the 3rd and 4th lines, their much quicker and more skilled. It’s really tough to use your speed & skill when everytime you touch the puck you get hit + the Northeast didn’t get any weaker. I’m just saying it can go either way, it’s wouldn’t be the 1st place he’s struggled.
The other thing to consider is that teams are putting the finishing touches on rounding out their main roster spots during the FA signing week. After that most teams are picking through the scraps to fill out the roster. Their probably would be less of a market for a player like Corvo the closer you get to camp.
If they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it
By the same token...
All it takes is one injury in training camp or before (see Kane, Patrick) to increase his value quite a bit.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
In the past Corvo has shown himself to be an emotional and sensitive player. He has had times where his play has suffered and fans have gotten on him. He has admitted that his mindset off the ice during those times bordered on depression and that in trun made his play even worse. The team and teammate support he received in Carolina had him in the best personal and hockey confidence place he has been in during his career.
Boston is a tough place to play. Look at the Joe Thornton saga there. If Corvo does not play up to the expectations of the fans it will be a brutal place to play and live and you will need a thick skin. I have never seen that in Joe and I worry for him as a person.
Thin skinned hockey tough guy? seems Oxymoronic….Maybe Boston can put Bob Rotella on retainer. I like Corvo and enjoyed watching him play, but I’m not into “Soft Trade Demands”. As a fan of the ’Canes it just rubs me the wrong way.
Desperation from Day One......let's not wait until the end!
On the surface I would agree. But that phrase was how JR presented it. There may have been more to it. We don’t know what was said during the exit interviews. The drafting of Murphy sent a message. They have several puck moving offensive minded D in the system. Joe may have seen the writing on the wall. Some players don’t do well as late season additions to a team. He may have wanted to start fresh with a team at the start of the season. Players have little say in all of this if the don’t have a NTC.
To me it seemed very convenient for JR to be able to move him after the Kaberle signing and then present it all as a “soft trade request”…. that request may have well been, “if you don’t see a longer term future for me here and a team is enquiring I’d be thankful if you made the deal”.
btw…. like all walks of life, hockey players come with a differing personalities. Not all are tough guys. Some are thick skinned. Some are not. Some are cerebrial, others not so much, etc.
enjoy your posts
just having some fun with the “stereo-types” I wish Corvo well…but I think we upgraded our team with the move!
Desperation from Day One......let's not wait until the end!
oh, c’mon. I’m a fan that spends a lot of money on tickets and beer. All the players should come up and talk to me like I’m their friend. They should also have an extroverted personality and be very approachable and always smiling. That’s what they’re paid for!
….I’ve actually heard BS like this from Canes fans regarding Corvo.
If they knew anything about the game, they'd be in it
I agree. Not sure what it is with Joe. He’s a guy that seems to need a lot of confidence and security to play consistently well. He has a history of being thrown off his game by things on and off the ice. Not a guy that I think would do well in hockey intense environments like Montreal, Toronto and while not as intense, Boston is up there. I think as a professional athlete you have to accept all of that scrutiny and pressure along with the money and fame. But some guys don’t and I would lump Joe in that category.
The addition of Corvo will make Boston stronger defensively
Not that they needed much help, but the addition of Corvo will make Boston that much better defensively. They are going to be very strong on the back end.
by Ted Urquhart on Jul 19, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Like to hear Corvo's side of the story
Initially, it was said to be a “soft request”, where rather than asking for a trade, his agent questioned Corvo’s role in the team, and “wondered aloud” if there was a place for him there.
Now that many are shaking their heads over giving Kaberle so much money, and losing a key player in Corvo for basically nothing in return, thew story has changed from “soft request” to saying he actually requested a trade. I’d like some clarification.
I can’t get behind the “giving Kaberle so much money” line. I think his contract term and value are pretty reasonable for a guy with his resume. Kaberle shows up for about 80 games a season, he does his thing on the PP, and he’s defensively responsible at even strength.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
I also can’t understand the notion that the guy is washed up based on half of a season of work.
by Iggy Reilly on Jul 19, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Hope you are right
Let me start off by saying I hope I’m dead wrong and totally out in left field, but we’re going to pay $4.25 million for a guy who got 9 minutes of ice time in game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. One of the guys we let slip away a couple years back (for dirt cheap), played over 20 minutes on the top defensive set (Dennis Seidenberg). If Joe Corvo had been playing for Boston, I suspect he would have been on the second defensive set, and played 18+ minutes.
Sorry guys, I guess I’m just not that hot on Kaberle. Not sure we needed another PP D-man hesitant to shoot.
by Ted Urquhart on Jul 19, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ve been over this before, not you and me specifically but this blog, but Seidenberg is currently playing with a perrenial Norris contender.
You could slap just about any guy in the NHL on Chara’s side and they would seem like a legit top line defenseman.
See: Aaron Ward
Back at you (and trying not to be a smart-a)
Yeah, I think Boston’s was hoping that guy would be Tomas Kaberle, instead, he ended up on the 3rd defensive set, behind a couple of minimal salary guys.
Let’s give Seidenberg (and Corvo) some credit. They both came to Carolina as castouts (Seidenberg was scratched 14 games in Phoenix before coming to Carolina, Corvo run out of town by Ottawa), and were very successful here. By the time he left Carolina, Seidenberg had developed into a very solid defenseman, and he’s obviously continued that in Boston. You don’t end up on the top defensive pairing out of dumb luck.
I envy most of your optimism and loytalty. I’m doing my best to keep my chin up as well. Think I got spoiled by the earlier years, and three “deep runs” in the playoffs.
by Ted Urquhart on Jul 19, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Corvo would definitely not be on the 2nd pairing. He is a 3rd liner in Boston, bottom of the depth chart.
And is it really a surprise that if you are winning 3-0 in game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals, you overplay your Norris-level defenseman instead of your powerplay specialist?
As a team with a poor defense last year...
Did we really have room for, as you say, a powerplay specialist who has so little value otherwise?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It has also been said that the Canes are really trying to get Tomas on board with a tighter fitness regimen and really get him in shape.
If he can really buy into that, it could go along way to tightening up the weaker aspects of his game.
He got 9 minutes in game 7 because there were no PP opportunities and Chara and Seids ate up a bunch of time late in the game. Kaberle got nearly 20 minutes in game 6, which was also an elimination game for Boston.
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
So he's not very useful if your team happens not to draw many penalties?
Seems like that’s not much to get for $4 mil.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Ted
“soft request” versus “request” ? everyone can interpret the difference, if there is a difference, according to their own opinions. But once a player gives any indication that they might want to move on, it’s usually better to move them, if possible.
Since Rutherford traded Corvo within a day or two after the “soft request” was made, it looks like he interpreted it as a request.
Editing Manager of Canes Country.com
Bingo Bob
and that is how i saw and understood it…
What did you do during the summer when the playoffs are over ?
Go Canes & Checkers !!
What's the difference?
A soft request is still a request.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel that JR could have definitely gotten more for Corvo, but he had a deal in hand and took it. I think Columbus, Minnesota, and Detroit might have had some interest in Corvo. Through Boston into the mix and wait a little while; I think JR could have gotten a decent (not top) prospect or a 2nd/3rd round pick.
Here's the SKINNy, the All-STAAL game was CAMtastic!
Do you honestly feel like at this time in the season JR could have gotten a 2nd round pick for Corvo? Maybe at the draft he could of, but I don’t think that is possible on the afternoon of July 1. The reason I ask about the reality of acquiring a 2nd round pick is because I think a 2nd is vastly different than a 3rd or 4th, so if a 2nd was possible then I’d say that JR should have held out.
As for a prospect, who would it be and where would they play? Maybe if a guy like Osala (size, in need of polish) was available then again, I’d say JR should have waited, but I just don’t see Corvo bringing that return at the point when the trade request was reported to have been made. I see him bringing back more of an AHL plug, and there were plenty of guys who were free agents at the time that fit that bill.
Now, this does bring up an interesting thought that has been in the back of my mind which is, should Corvo have made this request at the draft? Could he of? Would JR essentially be letting the world know that Cole was walking on July 1 by moving Corvo at the draft? Would that have hurt JR’s ability to re-sign key players?
Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.
I really do believe JR could have gotten a 2nd rounder from certain teams; teams that are pretty confident that they are looking at the playoffs (like a Detroit). I think the 3rd round pick would be more likely, but an expected low 2nd was not completely impossible IMO.
I think a decent prospect; maybe a larger, defensive defenseman that needs a little more work. Someone that could join the offensive defenseman in Charlotte and might become a decent 3rd pairing guy in the future.
JR could have also played the waiting game (risky) and see if anybody got hurt over the offseason and needed Corvo to fill in. That would have been a risk, but who knows. I think he could gotten more and possibly dealt Corvo to a Western Conference team.
Here's the SKINNy, the All-STAAL game was CAMtastic!
Plus, you Guys have to remember, J.R. made out pretty well the last time he traded Joe. Then got him back to boot at a “home town discount”. Maybe, knowing Joe’s personality the way he does, this just seemed like the best thing for all parties. Or I could be way off, but another way to look ay this for sure.
agree
Agreed on all points. JR had an opportunity to get Kaberle sitting in front of him and satisfy a request made by one of his players at the same time. Both sides ended up with what they most desired.
The reduction in salary allowed JR to pull the plug on the Kaberle signing rather than figuring it out later.
I don’t think this is asset mismanagement in the least. If he’d made the trade to BOS without the Kaberle signing, then sure.
I don't understand the relevance.
Nothing about the Kaberle signing affects us financially for months. Why now?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
As a fan....
Here’s what will answer the question during the season.
During the game, if you ask yourself “Man, we could really have used Joe Corvo in this situation.” Then, that shows his value to the team.
If you don’t find yourself saying that outloud during the season, then even for only a 4th rounder – he was just nothing more than an interchangeable part. (no matter what you think of his personality, and off-ice factors etc.)
by Adam's Journey on Jul 20, 2011 11:17 AM EDT reply actions
I expect I will be finding myself saying, “If that was Joe Corvo he would have given up on the play” when Pitkanen chases someone down the ice and steals the puck.
I really like Corvo even though I also think Kaberle is an upgrade for the Hurricanes. I would say that as Pitkanen streaks down the ice after not getting a penalty, I will see the image of Corvo turning to an official complaining about a missed call. I don’t see Corvo as a player whose return I will yearn for because McBain, Faulk, and Murphy will more than fill his role. If the test is would I trade McBain, Faulk, or Murphy for Corvo, my answer is no. Similarly, would I happily trade Corvo for Kaberle and a 4th round draft pick, absolutely yes.
Many good points!
I think (or thought at the time) it’s surprising Corvo was traded so fast, for SOOO little, and because this off-season many teams have been looking for PMD, …WHY???
To me it appears JR was either MAD (Corvo wanting out), or afraid of having too much salary (that he couldn’t afford)… so he took the 1st offer he got!
Several teams HAVE been in the market for PMD and i think he could have done better, or at least as well if he waited… but I could be wrong (HE IS THE PRO)!
One problem i see, right-shot D-man gone, too many lefties…
HELP!!
by randycane on Jul 20, 2011 9:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Why so Quick on the Trigger
I think it was a mixture of things. I believe Jim Rutherford acts quickly to avoid melodrama in the locker room. Also, freeing up Corvo’s salary allowed Jim Rutherford to lock up a player the Hurricanes organization wanted for a longer term, i.e. Kaberle for three years.
The salary didn't need to be "freed up" for months.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 22, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
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