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2011-2012 Predictions: Unbridled Optimism (Pessimists Need Not Apply)


It is time for annual predictions and I'm going to do the same.  However, my predictions will be based on a more optimistic assessment of what will happen this season, though it is based at least in some part on what players and the team did last season and in previous years.  While this may not be what actually happens this season, I think my predictions are at least as valid as the ones others are making using the same or similar data.  I will start by predicting the Hurricanes finish either fifth or sixth in the Eastern Conference this year, fighting it out to the last day with Tampa Bay as to who is second in the Southeast Division.  After the jump, my other analysis and predictions.

Star-divide

Going into the offseason, Jim Rutherford identified four areas where the team needed to find personnel to improve.  I think his signings of Tim Brent, Alexei Ponikarovsky, Anthony Stewart, Tomas Kaberle, and Brian Boucher addressed all of those issues.  Additionally, we managed to resign all but one of our free agents.  The one loss of Erik Cole will represent a substantial hole to fill, but I think that the offseason signings coupled with the emergence of one or more of our prospects (for this purpose, I will include as those prospects Bowman, Boychuk, Dalpe, Terry, and Tlusty) steps up and adds strong alternate scoring to our already established scorers of Staal, Skinner, Ruutu, and Jokinen.  Further, I think Ponikarovsky and/or Stewart steps up to become 20-goal scorers or close to that.  Additionally, I think Brandon Sutter having established himself as a strong defensive forward is able to pick up his offensive game more, especially when paired with two other players who can provide some secondary scoring themselves  (LaRose and Stewart or Ponikarovsky).

Additionally, I think that Eric Staal will become a point-per-game producer this season.  Even without Cole, he will have another large body on one wing as well as a good playmaker on the other.  I would expect Jokinen to start on the top line if Boychuk cannot establish himself in training camp as being good enough to take that position.  That would then leave Dalpe capable of taking the open second-line wing.  For the same arguments used last year to shield Skinner from being on the top line, I think Dalpe should be placed on the second line.  Further, unless you going to move Skinner to the top line, you need to give Staal as strong a supporting pair of wingers as possible.  Otherwise, you are crippling our best scorer and that would make it very difficult for this team to make its way into the playoffs.

I predict the powerplay will be improved over last year.  Kaberle is only marginally better than Corvo at running a powerplay, but we will also have Ponikarovsky and Stewart to screen opposing goalies and create havoc in front of the net.  This will lead to our powerplay improving to at least the league average and might actually get a little better.  In any event, such an improvement will bring about a few additional victories or at least allow us to force overtime in games that we lost last season.

I expect an even greater improvement in the penalty kill.  We will now have two superb sets of penalty killers at forward with Sutter-LaRose and Brent-Dwyer.  This will also enable Staal to stay off the penalty kill most of the time which will keep him fresher for not only individual games but also the entire season.  It could also help reduce the number of fatigue/frustration penalties that Staal takes.  Staal and Jokinen/Ponikarovsky could also become a third penalty kill pairing but it would be the least seldom used.  Additionally, I think Allen and Joslin will definitely help improve the defensive pairings on the penalty kill, depending on who is the defenseman being scratched on a given night.  Thus, I predict our penalty kill will move from 20th in the league much closer to the top ten if not in the top ten.

Last year's defense started out extremely porous but did improve when Ian White replaced Anton Babchuk.  By any standard measured, the defense also improved post the trade deadline with the arrivals of Allen and Joslin.  If the GAA went from around 3.53 prior to the Babchuk trade to 2.42 post trade deadline, then I expect this year's team defense to be able to maintain a GAA of under 2.50, which coupled with the ability of the revamped offense to still score at approximately 3 goals a game will result in a strong playoff contender.

The addition of Tomas Kaberle can also help reduce Joni Pitaken's TOI.  This will, as with Staal, reduce the number of fatigue/frustration penalties taken.  It will also enable Joni to play stronger defense and perhaps not to make some of the seemingly foolish mistakes he did last year.  However, as was shown by the fact that he was ninth lowest among defensemen for giveaways per point scored at even strength, I think his actual number of miscues was far lower than the anecdotal evidence would suggest.   Still, reducing the amount of time he has to spend on the ice will be helpful.

Finally, the final improvement was in signing a strong backup goaltender who can take some of the load from Cam Ward.  Brian Boucher played very well for Philadelphia last year even when forced by necessity to start almost half o the games.  If as another posted predicted, he wins another 3 to 4 games over what Justin Peters did last year, as well as keeping Cam less fatigued for the playoff push in March and then the playoffs themselves, his might be the most important signing of the offseason.

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I predict our start will dictate our season

Fast start = players buy into system, prospects look good.

Slow start = something’s amiss, depending on how bad it goes players/coaches could get shaken-up a bit.

Hoping for fast start and 7th in East…

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 23, 2011 7:09 AM EDT reply actions  

7th…seems about right…they’ve always been a 7-10th place team. A few breaks go their way and 7th it is. They don’t…there’s going to be some very unhappy folks.

It’s gonna come down to the last week…again.

by Adam's Journey on Aug 23, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's funny that you post that today because . . . .

The Hockey News picks the Canes to finish 9th. My favorite line from the write up:

The fact Carolina is in the Southeast will benefit them, but if Winnipeg or Florida exceed lowly expectations it’ll come at the expense of the Hurricanes.

Go_Shelf has already mentioned he expects the Jets to surprise, and while I’m not as optimistic about that as he is I certainly believe it’s possible. The Thrashers were pretty good last year until injuries and poor attendance took the wind out of that young teams sails. Poor attendance won’t be an issue this year, so you have to think that if they can stay healthy the team has the potential to surprise.

Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 23, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure how being in the SE benefits anyone, every team is going to be competitive, especially early. I won’t surprise me if the home vs away records with teams in the SE is about .500 with exception of FLA; I think goaltending’s going to be an issue for them coupled with a group of forwards that struggle to score more than 3 goals a game. If you look at the EC it’s tough to say where everyone’s going to end up with the exception of Ottawa, the Isles, and Florida. After that I think Philly moves the other direction as does Boston with the target on their back.

by Go_Shelf on Aug 23, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fearless Optimism

1) Ruutu-Skinner-Jokinen take up from last year, and establish themselves as a bonafide scoring 2nd line.
2) Dalpe and Ponikarovsky become Stahl’s bookends, and set up a big tough scoring first line.
3) Bowman breaks thru, Tlusty is healthy, and Sutter benefits. Canes get a young defensively responsible checking line that can score.
4) Kaberle lives up to expectations, and the Canes get the quarterback they need to take the powerplay to acceptable levels.
5) Gleason gets over whatever ailed him, to get back to his old form. The defensive pairings match up with a tough stay at home and a puck mover in each pair. Cam is delighted.
6) Mo and Barasso actually have faith in Boucher, and Cam plays in 62 games or less.

Okay, start calling me a hopeless optimist.

by ncyankee on Aug 23, 2011 4:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree with much of the analysis here...

But I’m worried if we’re going to be leaning on Kaberle to play heavy minutes in lieu of Pitkanen, and I don’t think we’ll end up in the top six unless most of the team overachieves.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 23, 2011 4:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Kaberle will help reduce Joni’s time on the powerplay, probably not by more than a minute or so a game, but that should help. Also, I think Joni will be less distracted this season by worrying he will be traded. And as someone mentioned, a return to Olympic form Gleason will be a great improvement. Finally, carrying 7 NHL defensemen is a luxury the Canes have not had in my recent memory. This will allow for slightly injured guys being allowed to sit and recover.

by Chuck Burns on Aug 23, 2011 6:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Really enjoyed the write-up and the optimism.

I’m stumped on a forecast because I could see the 1st line being anything from great to mediocre based on all the possible combinations. There are forwards with speed, forwards with size and forwards with scoring ability available, but it’s tough to tell if any combination will provide the combination of size, speed and firepower that would let Staal play at the top of his game. Poni and Stewart are big and probably fast enough, but can they score at the level needed? Boychuk and Dalpe are fast enough and have scoring ability, but are they strong enough and are they ready for that important a role? Jokinen can play well with anybody, but if he’s on the 1st line, he slows Staal down and breaks up the strong second line that closed out last season.

I find Poni – Staal – Dalpe the most intriguing combination, followed by Boychuk – Staal – Stewart. Both lines have size, speed and scoring ability but on both those lines, the only known commodity as a Canes 1st line player is Staal himself.

I think odds are best on Jokinen – Staal – Stewart. Playmaker, goal scorer, net presence. But Stewart has to score at a reasonable level to make it work and that’s a big unknown.

My hunch is that the defense will be much better and the increased size at forward will help in a lot of ways. If one more guy could establish himself as a 25-goal scorer on the 1st line, the Canes could be really good. I think the second line will score well and the 3rd will be much improved. The biggest question is at the top.

 

by curiouscanesfan on Aug 23, 2011 6:29 PM EDT reply actions  

I too am

optimistic as the Pimphand of JR has worked what looks like on paper..more of his magic we have come to expect…yet i too am going to be sit back wait and see..but still be “excited as all get out” and hope for the best and that the team over all stays healthy and keeps putting that puck in the net..and not go back to sleep after leading 3-1 or 3-0 after 2 periods…good effort..and i thank you for this !! As Once again this effort proves beyond any doubt that we of the Caniac Nation have the best informed& knowledgable fan base in the eastern conference…PERIOD !!

What did you do during the summer when the playoffs are over ?
Go Canes & Checkers !!

by CaniacSteve on Aug 23, 2011 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

pimphand of jr has been in a cast the last two seasons

his moves haven’t really pushed us over the cusp into the playoffs. that said, i like how he handled the cole situation this past offseason, and i like the pickups. it seems as if he’s been having some physical therapy on the pimphand and it’s rounding back into form…

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 24, 2011 6:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haven't we been over the fallacy of "going to sleep" with a lead?

This team was one of the best in the league at holding leads, particularly late.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 24, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

we must not have had the lead very often, then

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 24, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that relevant to what CS said?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 25, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think that your team will be fighting it out with TB or WASH for the top 2 in our division

by capsfnva on Aug 24, 2011 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Paper vs On Ice performance

On paper things look very good and Canes could surprise. However, game is played on the ice….power play scoring is a big MUST if Canes are to improve and be a playoff contender. Biggest drawback I see is the Canes will be younger somewhat and Mo is still the coach – and he tends to ride and wear down the VETS and let the youngsters SIT

by wlcinac919 on Aug 24, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Hurricanes aren't really younger than they were last year.

If anything, most of the key young players return with another year of experience. Further, it wasn’t often that young players were actually sitting. We just didn’t have the luxury of calling them up and sitting a vet while paying both.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 24, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

why did we sign rosie back again if we have a logjam of talented youth?

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 25, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Because none of the talented youth can kill penalties.

Thought we went over this already.

Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 25, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

how can you know if they don't play?

hard to argue a prospect’s NHL ability if they never see the ice. Conversely, we know Rosie is good at killing penalties and is a fan favorite. Is that enough to keep the kids down on the farm after missing the playoffs two straight years? Time will tell, but if it were up to me we never would’ve resigned Rosie and used that slot to free-up some TOI for the young uns.

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 25, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

but i am optimistic that youth will eventually be served

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 25, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

The evidence is that there is no evidence.

Isn’t the fact that they didn’t play evidence enough? I mean, wouldn’t it have benefitted the team if Staal had played fewer PK minutes so as to be fresher for the PP or even strength? Staal isn’t exactly a PK beast either, so it wouldn’t have taken a specialist to supplant him there. The fact they didn’t play says a lot.

Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 25, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have unbridled optimism that the ’Canes organization will find space for the prospects to play in the NHL in the short term, even shorter if the team comes out flat to start the season.

That said, I am optimistic that they come out full of energy and enthusiasm and win 3/4 of their first two dozen games.

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 25, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean prospects like Skinner, Sutter, McBain?

Or guys that aren’t ready for the NHL?

Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 25, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The answer to that might be found at the RCI. Who is it who is reserving the ice? Who (along with Cam Ward) felt there needed to be a veteran leaderrship to welcome the new players (both acquisitions and our own)? Who is directing the drills, and running the practices? I’ll give you a clue, it;s not our captain, or either of our assistant captains. This practice is totally voluntary, and no one is required to be here. That Rosie chooses to be here, and be as active as he is, is a good indication of why he was resigned. There really are such things as intangibles. JMHO.

by ncyankee on Aug 25, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

intangibles on a losing team often get trumped by talent and performance

but i hear what you are saying. rosie, at -21, is still a good guy and fan favorite, i get that. but we need to shake up the team somehow to get over that hump, and i firmly believe that getting some of the kids in Charlotte cycling up here more frequently can help steal some more games here and there.

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 25, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can agree that having the veteran signings we have depresses the young talent. That being said,however, there is a place on the team for an effective penalty killer. I can agree that he could be overpaid for his slot, and Mo has over-slotted him (lack of choices?), but he does serve some very valuable functions.

by ncyankee on Aug 25, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

if rosie sticks on the fourth line and kills a bunch of penalties, i’m with ya 110%. I fear he will (again) be over-slotted and show up on the first line.

hoping for the best and remaining optimistic.

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 25, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Believe it or not, no argument from me. I sometimes wonder if Rosie’s appearances on the first line are directly related to the problem of finding wingers Stahl is comfortable playing with.

by ncyankee on Aug 25, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I sometimes wonder if Rosie’s appearances on the first line are directly related to the problem of finding wingers Stahl is comfortable playing with.

That and lack of talent are exactly the reasons. Bob wrote an article after one of the recent seasons that looked at player combinations and found that the combination of Staal and LaRose had one of the highest ratios of points per minute played together. There’s some natural chemistry there because LaRose can keep up with Staal on the break out. Don’t take this as a post in favor of slotting LaRose with Staal, far from it. As I’ve said many times before I think that combination works well when Staal can jump on and double shift with LaRose. The third line tires out the opposing players, at which point Sutter jumps off and Staal jumps on and a quick break out occurs. Staal carries the puck up ice with a defender and puts a shot on net for LaRose to cash in the rebound. Even if a goal isn’t scored it can easily turn the momentum or lead to a penalty call.

Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 25, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

too bad that scenario didn't play out enough last season

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 25, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is. LaRose was constantly over slotted which was a bad fit. The lack of top 6 talent for protracted periods hurt the team last year.

Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 25, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

LaRose is a fine penalty killer; however, already proven penalty killers on the Canes include Dwyer, Sutter, Staal, Jokinen, and Brent. Dalpe and Bowman can also kill penalties. If I recall correctly Sutter was the best penalty killer on the team based on statistical analysis. Samson has also killed penalties for the Checkers.

by abramsdoug on Aug 25, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The reason LaRose is on the team is simple, he is practically JR’s child. He rose up through the Canes organizational ranks at pretty much every single stage of his development.

If LaRose is ever not on the Carolina Hurricanes, it is because PK has moved the team in which he would be a member of the new team. As JR puts it (in his opinion) “LaRose drives this team”. A man-crush that will never be let go, LaRose will retire a Cane with millions more than he would have ever made anywhere else.

by JussiJuice on Aug 25, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

ya, he’s been playing for PK since he was 10 and he’s not the reason we didn’t make the playoffs

by Go_Shelf on Aug 25, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was part of the reason

i can remember literally dozens of wide open chances in front of the net where larose whiffed, shot wide, or fell down last season. sutter would’ve had 1,000 assists if rosie could have finished.

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 25, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

it’s clearly Sutter’s fault because he passed up a shooting opportunity. Larose clearly receives a disproportion of blame for last season. Remember he didn’t choose to be over-slotted; he’s done everything they’ve asked of him given his abilities.

by Go_Shelf on Aug 26, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

LaRose being overslotted was not the sole reason the Hurricanes failed to make the playoffs; however, it is one of the significant reasons that the Hurricanes did not make the playoffs. Still, it is significant as well that LaRose is running the pre-camp. He has a valid leadership role on the team and his personality is even more important as the Hurricanes transition to a younger team. I don’t quarrel with LaRose being an important part of the team. I do believe his best role would be on a fourth line that was given a much bigger role than last season and as a penalty killer. I also hope he will stop taking bad penalties, especially tripping/interference/roughing in the Hurricanes offensive zone.

LaRose is showing this week how important his intangibles are to the team; but he needs to tighten up the mental part of his game.

by abramsdoug on Aug 25, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

LaRose being overslotted was not the sole reason the Hurricanes failed to make the playoffs; however, it is one of the significant reasons that the Hurricanes did not make the playoffs.

Two points separated the Canes from the playoffs. Don’t you think this statement is given to hyperbole just a bit? What about some of the issues that Staal, the Captain, dealt with early in the year. Didn’t you recently post about points at the start of the season being just as valuable as points at the end of the season? I asked before, and I’ll ask again, how can you view the captain with rose colored glasses but say LaRose is a “significant reason that the Hurricanes did not make the playoffs” when he is best slotted as a bottom 6 complimentary player?

Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 25, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

With regard to penalties...

Doesn’t last season look like something of an anomaly to you compared to the rest of his career?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 28, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

LaRose

LaRose has had a penchant for taking penalties that were the result of losing sense of the ingame situation. This season he spent so many shifts on the ice, he had more opportunities to let his emotions overrule his hockey judgment. It is incredibly hard to stay at that enotional edge without going over the line.

by abramsdoug on Aug 28, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's strange...

In that he played nearly as many minutes two years ago, yet ended up with about 40% less PIMs. I think his discipline will be fine next year, as it has been for most of his career.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 29, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

^Agree

LaRose’s style of play and emotion wasn’t the issue last year. It was him being overslotted that was the issue. More consistent time in the bottom 6 as opposed to the top 6 will allow LaRose to play his game and be effective.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 29, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never blamed anything on LaRose. His leadership ability and persona as a fan-favorite are well documented. He is a great 4th liner on any Cup contending team. He can play the PK (although playing since he was 10 doesn’t really say anything at all).

I don’t think he brings nearly the PK presence that someone like Staal or Sutter brings. I feel his tenacity makes him a good PK’er, but that could be replaced with a little seasoning by a guy like Samson who shows just as much tenacity with little negative effect to our PK %. When LaRose goes down with an injury, I certainly don’t think “Oh god, our PK is doomed” as I would if say Sutter went down.

I just believe that his place on the Canes is current more about his relationship with JR/PK than it is about him being an amazing leader and PKer. For the past 2 years and for the next 2 years he will be overpaid mostly due to this relationship. Nothing wrong with it, it is not a Gomez-esk catastrophe, but it is what it is.

by JussiJuice on Aug 25, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just believe that his place on the Canes is current more about his relationship with JR/PK than it is about him being an amazing leader and PKer.

Second most minutes of any forward on the PK. No relationship with the owner gets you to that point. You have to earn that.

For the past 2 years and for the next 2 years he will be overpaid mostly due to this relationship.

LaRose has a $1.7 cap hit over two years. Patrick Eaves has a $1.2 cap hit for three years. For half a million you get less time commitment, less total money committed, more ability to fill in the top 6, and more leadership. How is this overpaid?

The $1.7 cap hit represents just 2.6% of the $64.3M salary cap. For reference, if that money were split evenly between 23 players than each player would earn about 4.35% of the cap.

The current cap of $64.3M is almost a 65% increase from the $39M cap directly after the lockout. If the cap was still at $39M and LaRose was still making 2.6% of the cap then he would have a cap hit of $1.03M per year.

I don’t mean to pick on you here Jussi. It’s just the things you’ve said above that I quoted have been said by numerous people. I don’t believe those statements to be factual or to be an objective analysis of the data.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 26, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

He was actually 3rd on TOI and only seconds ahead of Staal and Cole in TOI/game.

Patrick Dwyer played 40 seconds more TOI/game than Larose (2:03 vs 1:25). I don’t hear anyone saying how invaluable he is. He also makes over a million less and had a better plus/minus.

I see LaRose about as valuable as Dwyer. No more, no less. Dwyer also puts up about the same points/TOI.

The fact that LaRose is treated like the golden child amongst fans and management while Dwyer more an expendable piece backs up my special treatment argument.

Plus I specifically said he was not vastly overpaid and it wasn’t a huge deal. You conveniently left that out of your block quote.

by JussiJuice on Aug 26, 2011 4:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Brett Sutter also averaged 2:09 SH TOI/game in his 5 game stias (44 seconds/game higher than Rosie)

PK time is important and you certainly have to earn it… but if Dwyer and both Sutter’s can blow Rosie’s time out of the water by nearly a minute, I just don’t think Larose’s PK ability is as incredibly rare and invauable as you make it out to be.

by JussiJuice on Aug 26, 2011 4:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

What I will say is that the additions of Tim Brent (2:00 SH TOI/game), Poni (1:00 SH TOI /game), and Stewart (0:30 SH TOI/game) as well as the possible permanent addition of Brett Sutter will hopefully have a profound effect on our PK in general. It was pretty awful last year in the bottom 1/3 of the league.

Sorry for the string of replies, can’t see too far on my mobile.

by JussiJuice on Aug 26, 2011 4:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Missed Dwyer there. Thanks for the catch.

Sutter (Brett) didn’t have a statistically significant sample size to pull from when it comes to SH TOI. Sutter’s SH TOI was influenced more by injuries to players that require a call up to fill in.

As for Brent’s time, that only makes up for Cole’s time. That doesn’t replace LaRose’s time. Ponit and Stewarts ability help, but again, another goal of the season has been to reduce Staal’s SH TOI. I see them more as taking time away from Staal.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 29, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trips even closer to JR and he’s not an on ice player. The closeness of the two definitely opened some doors for LaRose, but if LaRose wasn’t producing then I’m sure JR or PK could find a nice job for him selling Lady Kenmores.

As JR puts it (in his opinion) "LaRose drives this team". A man-crush that will never be let go

That’s what JR used to say about Brind’Amour too. It’s a reflection of the leadership role LaRose has on the team. He helps break the ice in the locker room, but he’s also out there leading Camp Brindy/LaRose.

For crying out loud, look at the guys stats. He puts up more than a third of a point a game over his career. He’s -6 for his career, and that includes the awful total from last season. He has a similar point per game pace in the playoffs. He kills penalties. He can fill in for breif periods in the top 6. He’s got legitimate 15 to 20 goal potential. He’s leading the pre-season work outs. He’s making $500k more than Patrick Eaves. He was scratched one of the first games Maurice coached when he came back and used that to motivate himself to play better. Really, what else do you want in a third line player?

Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 25, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i'll take any of our third line players from the stanley cup team

regardless, if i had a choice of keeping larose with his intangibles on the third line or bringing up a bowman/boychuk/dalpe and having them run on the third line, I’d choose the latter. just my opinion.

Of Maurice, Karmanos said: "I’m happy Paul is back but he’s going to be judged the same way as any other coach. We need to win more consistently."

by Sergeant Stinky on Aug 25, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if they’re ready then Tlusty is going to find himself sitting in the press box a lot. The problem is that Mo was using the third line, especially late in the season when it was Sutter and LaRose, as a shut down line. I’m not sure any of the young guys have the ability to play on a shut down line. None of them have played on a line like that in the AHL, let alone the NHL. Bowman saw some time on that line, but when he did it wasn’t used as a shut down line as much.

The addition of Ponikorovsky and Stewart put that in flux a bit. Poni was put on a bit of a shut down line in LA last year and that wasn’t a great fit for him, so perhaps the third line won’t be used that way.

Don't trust me. I have psychological issues.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 25, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see Poni as more of a first liner. He goes to the net, which should put him in position for some of Stahl’s rebounds. I thought Bowman did a good job with Sutter last year. A lot is going to depend on what chemistry evolves.

by ncyankee on Aug 25, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot is going to depend on what chemistry evolves.

Agreed. The additions of Poni and Stewart, the loss of Cole, and the emergence of young talent is going to have a pretty dramatic impact on the way the roster and lines look this year. Many have argued for not breaking up the joni, Ruutu, Skinner line, and that to me makes a lot of sense. Given all the change in the forwards, and the depth that the org hopefully has now, I think everything is on the table. If Brent can prove to be the same kind of center that K Adams was then it’s very possible that the fourth line will get time under Mo next year very similar to the time the fourth line would get under Lavi. If Dalpe, Bowman, and Boychuk all push for roster spots than who knows what that could mean for potential for trades.

When my opinions and reality don't coincide I re-evaluate my opinions, not reality.

by C-Leaguer on Aug 26, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right, because 30-point, defensively responsible players who can kill penalties and are great in the locker room have no value in the NHL.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 28, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Samson has also scored at a point per game pace for the CHeckers.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 28, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

which translates to what in the NHL?

by Go_Shelf on Aug 29, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly my point.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 29, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s kind of false hope and sets people up for disappointment. Success at the AHL level quite often doesn’t equal success at the NHL level.

by Go_Shelf on Aug 30, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right.

If you’ll note, DA suggested Samson could be a capable penalty killer because he has done it in Charlotte. But I was countering that AHL efforts (or even successes) don’t translate for some players.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!

by MichaelProcton on Aug 30, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

HOW ABOUT WE GET OFF THE "BASH ROSIE" TRAIN?

Rosie is a part of the team – a very important part – whether any/all of you like it or not. Why do we keep rehashing his value or lack of it? This is old crap – let’s talk about something new – anything – PLEASE!!

by caniacmum on Sep 3, 2011 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

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