Hurricanes Recall Jerome Samson To Replace Injured Chad LaRose

by Cory Lavalette on Jan 10, 2012 11:16 AM EST

Jerome Samson's recall marks the third straight season the forward has been promoted to the Hurricanes. He has four assists in 30 career NHL games. (Photo by Jamie Kellner)

The Carolina Hurricanes have recalled forward Jerome Samson from Charlotte of the AHL on an emergency basis to play Tuesday in place of Chad LaRose, who was injured in yesterday's practice. Samson, who was recently named one of two Checkers players tabbed to play in the 2012 AHL All-Star Classic, leads Charlotte in goals with 15 and is second to fellow All-Star Jon Matsumoto in points with 27. According to reports, Samson was on a line with Jussi Jokinen and Alexei Ponikarovsky at the morning skate. The release from the team is after the jump.

HURRICANES RECALL JEROME SAMSON FROM CHARLOTTE

Forward ranks tied for 11th in the AHL in goals this season

RALEIGH, NC – Jim Rutherford, President and General Manager of the National Hockey League’s Carolina Hurricanes, today announced that the team has recalled forward Jerome Samson (SAM-sohn) from the Charlotte Checkers of the American Hockey League (AHL). Samson is being recalled on an emergency basis for Chad LaRose, who suffered an upper-body injury during practice on Monday.

This marks the first NHL recall of the season for Samson, 24, who currently leads Charlotte and ranks tied for 11th in the AHL in goals (15). The Greenfield Park, Que., native is second among Checkers skaters in scoring this season with 27 points (15g, 12a) in 37 games and is tops among all AHL players with 160 shots on goal in 2011-12. Signed by the Hurricanes as a free agent on July 2, 2007, Samson has skated in 30 career NHL games with Carolina, totaling four assists and 10 penalty minutes. He has notched 252 points (121g, 131a) in 299 career AHL games with Albany and Charlotte.

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This could be interesting. Samson plays a very energetic hard nosed game much like larose. He also leads the Checkers in shots on goal so hopefully if he gets some shots Poni or Jokinen can pick up the rebounds.

by nhhockey14 on Jan 10, 2012 11:25 AM EST reply actions

Natural experiment time

If LaRose is out for a few games, this’ll be an interesting chance to compare the team with/without him and pacify/validate all the LaRose haters. Obviously it’s not the 1:1 replacement of LaRose with Dwyer that people seem to want, but it’s something different.

Personally, I think it’s bad for us that he’s hurt and I hope he heals quickly. Best of luck to Samson while he’s here though. Love the Checkers getting some NHL time, although I’d rather it weren’t due to injuries (not that there seems to be any other way these days).

by Bgallen on Jan 10, 2012 11:48 AM EST reply actions

Agreed. I never watch the Checkers so this will be a good opportunity to see how Samson has progressed. I don’t know the details of LaRose’s contract, but if he’s outperformed by the replacements he could be moved at the deadline to open up a fwd spot. Still though… He’s a dressing room favorite. Who knows?

I like that Muller isn’t afraid to give the young guys a certain amount of responsibility, and he seems to be good at putting them in situations where they can succeed.

by Kubota on Jan 10, 2012 12:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

I like that Muller isn’t afraid to give the young guys a certain amount of responsibility, and he seems to be good at putting them in situations where they can succeed.

A vast difference from Mo. A good difference !

by Hockeydog on Jan 10, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions

Well, color me stupid. I thought it was the GM who decided who to call up.

Harrumph

by ivyleager on Jan 10, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions

They said Muller gives an opportunity. A lot of the AHL guys got callups this year and found themselves buried on the fourth line most of the time. Muller has given everyone a shot in an increased role.

CanesCountry.com: An Eye On Carolina Hockey

by Cory Lavalette on Jan 10, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions

So, I’m wondering if things were different under Maurice. Was he consulted as to who gets the call up?

My overall impression on previous instances was that it’s a numbers game for the GM. Not wanting a minor player to get high on games played, etc.

What I found very telling during the first 24/7 HBO series was that Pitts assistant GM (at least I think it was a management level guy, not sure if it was the GM) and coach sat down frequently to discuss and critique players.

Does that happen in this organEYEzation? Does JR give the coach input as to what type of player the coach wants called up?

Harrumph

by ivyleager on Jan 11, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions

It was Shero and Bylsma. Not the asst GM… Shero wanted to give the AHL guy a taste of NHL, both discussed team needs and where he would play, but it was clear the GM made the up and down decisions—just not in a vacuum.

by Squeaky83 on Jan 11, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions

Maurice was quite detached from the young players in the AHL. The statements he made for public consumption along demonstrated that approach. He would say things like “Ronnie is high on Bowman’s shot.” “Ronnie really likes McBain and has been telling me he is ready.” When the young players arrived in Raleigh, Maurice nailed them to the pine with the first mistake. Maurice put young forwards on the fourth line. It’s a different approach with Muller. My impression was Maurice hardly watched the young prospects who were in the AHL and did not spend time looking at the videos of the AHL games as a rule.

I found that approach odd because if I were in his shoes, I’d be all about trying to figure out which players were out there to make a mediocre team better. I imagine different coaches have different philosophies. Maurice is an ex-NHL coach who may or may not coach again in the NHL. He did not help his cause by the way he dealt with the prospects who were not instant prodigies like Skinner and Faulk.

by abramsdoug on Jan 11, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions

you are thus colored

Muller decides where the call-ups play, hence putting them in situations where they can succeed.

I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!

by Capt. Stinky on Jan 10, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions

I have to think Muller is somewhat involved in conversation about who gets called up.

by Hockeydog on Jan 10, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions

…and Daniels, and Ronnie, and Brindy, etc. Group effort…

I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!

by Capt. Stinky on Jan 10, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

I really like Chad’s game and think the fan base is undervaluing him, while the coaching staff may be liking him too much. I think 3rd line and 4th line time with some PK and he’s a real contributor. Not his fault they keep sticking him up higher, and frankly, his results haven’t been too bad. Plus, how many people do we complaing about not working…can’t pin that on him.

by JohnnymcQ on Jan 10, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions

I cant' stand LaRose's game

at $1.9 mill or whatever he gets. A $500k call-up can do the same job, maybe better, and the rest of Chad’s salary could be spent elsewhere.

I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!

by Capt. Stinky on Jan 10, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions

LaRose isnt over paid. His pay is actually low for how he is used.

Sorry you cant stand him but the guy has more goals than everybody on the team except Skinner and Ruutu.

He is consistently the hardest working player on the team. You dont have to like him or even respect what he brings to the team but at least be aware.

by RobbinDollar on Jan 10, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions

never said i can't stand him

i said i can’t stand his game at $1.9 mill.

I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!

by Capt. Stinky on Jan 10, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions

….and that a “$500k can do the same job maybe better”.

by drifterscape on Jan 10, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions

He makes nearly 2 and a bunch of zeros a year. The fans don’t undervalue him. The GM overvalues him. Yes I know that the dollar isn’t the same, but 1996 wasn’t that long ago, and Ron Francis earned $1.8 million a year tallying 119 (!!!!) points in 77 games for the penguins. Chad uses 4 1/2 seasons to rack up those numbers. Not to mention Selkes and Lady Bings that Chad will never sniff.

I know its rediculous to compare these, so don’t go there. But there is no WAY that anyone can say his play on the ice is undervalued at his salary! At best he contributes $800,000 to this team on the ice. You have a fair argument to weigh in his contributions off the ice – by all accounts he is a community leader – but this team’s current rate of losing the community’s good will, that only goes so far.

by 210beer on Jan 12, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions

The Hurricanes with Samson & without LaRose

This game does provide a chance to see whether LaRose does or does not play a role that other less expensive players cannot play. I think Samson is a bigger, stronger, more versatile, less expensive version of LaRose. Philadelphia will be a good test.

If Samson does well, the Hurricanes can trade LaRose and get a draft choice or prospect in return. The money saved can be used to sign a high impact top 6 forward.

by abramsdoug on Jan 10, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions

I’m not a big LaRose booster, but you guys do know he’s third in goals and fifth in points right now, right?

CanesCountry.com: An Eye On Carolina Hockey

by Cory Lavalette on Jan 10, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah I think he is undervalued. One of many scapegoats Canes fans like to call out.

I for one like his game.

by RobbinDollar on Jan 10, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions

he's also got a horrifying +/-

and continues to take bad penalties. being a top goal scorer on a last place team is like saying you played ACC football at Duke.

I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!

by Capt. Stinky on Jan 10, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions

"good for you!" but in the end, so what?

I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!

by Capt. Stinky on Jan 10, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions

Staal? Ruutu? Jussi? seems you can throw them all in a hat and come out with this description, right?

When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC

by hurricanefever on Jan 10, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions

Is that more a statement of him or the team?

As the article that Doug posted yesterday shows, he is clearly not a top 6 forward despite his point production.

by hurricane9 on Jan 10, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions

I actually agree he is not a top 6 player. However, that has been his assignment and he is a good soldier. That article also specifically said “LaRose might be out of place on the top-six but discrediting everything else he does is wrong.” Just thought I would make sure again that people understood the nature of that article.

by hurricanefever on Jan 10, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions

I’ve never even hinted that he belongs in the top six. But he’s having a solid year. Dumb penalties and a bad plus/minus? Sure, but he’s also tied in GWG and first in hits.

CanesCountry.com: An Eye On Carolina Hockey

by Cory Lavalette on Jan 10, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions

Plus....

A hell of a goal in the last game against Buffalo….

In Kirk we Trust

by Mullett on Jan 10, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions

I thought I was answering the stinky fellow not you.

I clearly support the notion that Chad LaRose has exceeded his potential this year and has done so throughout his career. I also believe Chad has been placed in situations during the year that were beyond his skill level but has yielded much more than was expected by the team. That may not have been enough to satisfy some critiques who look from the top down and not the bottom up. Regardless, Chad brings many positive things to the table which should be appreciated.

by hurricanefever on Jan 10, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions

Yes a quick look at the NHL stats puts him with some pretty darn good company in Goals Scored….What were the odds he would have more goals than the following:

Patrick Kane, Martin St. Louis, Captain Staal, Matt Cullen, James Van Riemsdyk, Dustin Brown, Michael Grabner, Joe Thorton

In Kirk we Trust

by Mullett on Jan 10, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions

Cory…….

This is the article on LaRose I was referring to originally posted by AD…..

http://www.shutdownline.com/hurricanes/statistical-analysis/the-truth-about-chad-larose.html

by hurricanefever on Jan 10, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions

AD talks about how LaRose is not a top 6 forward, and then you say “you guys do know he’s third in goals and fifth in points right now”. Sounds to me like you are suggesting that he should be playing up there based on his point production. Sorry that I misunderstood you.

by hurricane9 on Jan 10, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions

Facts Versus Beliefs

There are a number of studies about decision-making, including decisions made in a democratic society. It had some startling results. One thing that is found in the studies is that the more a person presents facts contrary to a dearly held belief, the more intense the belief becomes rather than less intense. This discussion is a study in how beliefs overcome facts every time.

Nobody has blamed LaRose for the coaching decision to play him in the top six. Nobody has said LaRose is a bad person. Nobody has said LaRose fails to give his all. Nobody has said LaRose is the worst third line player in the NHL. Nobody has said LaRose should be tarred and feathered and dragged out of town on a post. There were only a few points presented. You’d think somebody was advocating abolishing Santa Claus.

Question 1: Is LaRose a good choice for a top six forward? I’ve seen nobody present a detailed, meaningful set of facts to support that position.

Question 2: Does LaRose take more than his fair share of knucklehead penalties? Again, is there any evidence to the contrary?

Question 3: Given the make up of the Hurricanes does the team need to get bigger, faster, more physical and more skilled? Again, is there any dispute as to that proposition?

Question 4: Given the make up of the Hurricanes, is Chad LaRose the best choice available as a third line wing? There has been discussion on that point. My take is no, he is not the best choice available.

Question 5: Given the make up of the Hurricanes, is Chad LaRose the best choice available for the fourth line and as a penalty killer? My take is no, given his salary, his size, and his skill set, the Hurricanes could use other players who are less expensive and thereby free up money to obtain more top six talent. Does anybody really believe it is wise to pay Chad LaRose $1.9 million to be a penalty kill specialist and a fourth line wing? If so, why?

by abramsdoug on Jan 10, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions

Well said.

by 210beer on Jan 10, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions

Samson > LaRose

I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!

by Capt. Stinky on Jan 11, 2012 6:03 AM EST up reply actions

As to question 1) Is LaRose a good choice for a top six forward. That question has two parts. Part one, is he a good choice for a top six forward league wide? That answer is no. The article in Shutdown Line makes the point that he isn’t and I have no qualms with that.

Part Two is if he is top 6 for this team. The Canes don’t have access to players other than those that are signed to this team. So, to judge whether or not LaRose should be on THIS TEAMS top 6 we must compare him to other Canes players. Let’s do that.

Starting with NHL.com’s stats page lets take a look at some quick stats. LaRose is 5th in points. LaRose is third in goals, ahead of Staal, BTW. LaRose leads the team in GWG, tied with Skinner, although I think little of this stat as I find GWG to be a flawed stat. All of those are in the top 6, but let’s go deeper shall we? Chadception if you will.

Note above stats are from today 1/11. Below stats, unless otherwise noted are prior to yesterday’s game.

Let’s combine goals, points and TOI to find out who is producing the most per 60 minutes of TOI. Goals per 60 minutes scored goes like this: Skinner, Ruutu, Stewart, LaRose. That means he is fourth in goals scored per 60 minutes of TOI. In points he is 6th.

Is he scoring efficiently? Yep Is he scoring more efficiently than others on this team? Yep.

Question 2: Does LaRose take more than his fair share of Knucklehad penalties.

Well, let’s start again at NHL.com stats. LaRose is fourth on the team with 32 PIMs. Allen, who has been fairly praised this season, is first with 48, Followed by Gleason with 39, Ruutu with 36, Then LaRose, then Jussi with 30.

What’s that you ask? Don’t major penalties impact the PIMs discussion? Why yes, yes they do, so let’s look only at minor penalties.

Allen still leads the team with 19 minors. Ruutu is next with 17, followed by LaRose with 16, and Jussi with 15* (*NHL.com says 14 minors, but that doesn’t add up to 30 PIMs, and 30 PIMs was verified at TSN.Ca, so I’m making that 15 because I believe 14 to be an error).

But let’s go deeper again and look at minors per 60 minutes of TOI.

Ruutu is first with 1.421 minors per 60 TOI, Allen is next with 1.358 per 60. LaRose is next with 1.308 followed by Jussi with 1.287. Now, as we’ve established above LaRose isn’t up to top 6 standards league wide. He has a reason for the penalties in that he’s clearly over slotted. But what is Ruutu’s excuse? Jussi’s? Allen’s? Gleason’s? These guys are playing the roles they are meant to play and have as many or more penalties and more or equal per TOI.

If LaRose is a knucklehead then Jussi, Allen, and Ruutu are bigger knuckleheads.

Question 3 – What does this have to do with LaRose. Are you making the case that no small players can be on the team? Jeff Skinner on TSN is listed at 5-11. LaRose at 5-10. If we’re to get rid of all small players and LaRose is small then Skinner at only an inch higher must also be small and gotten rid of.

Quite frankly this line of reasoning is undeveloped. There are other ways to get bigger than LaRose.

Question 4 is the same as question 1. Is he the best choice league wide? Clearly not. We’ve seen what Detroit can do with a team in the pre-lockout days when they had hall of famers on the fourth line. Is he one of the best options the Canes have? Look at the analysis for question 1 above.

Question 5 – Is LaRose a third line player or a fourth line player? You keep moving the stick. In question 4 he’s a third line player, and now you’ve dropped that to fourth line to support some salary argument. That’s poor logic at the least and down right deceptive at worst.

Also, please get correct his salary. It’s on capgeek.com for crying out loud. He is being paid $1.5 M this season and has a cap hit of $1.7 M. The $1.9 M number is just trying to game the argument it’s factually incorrect. He will not make $1.9M in salary until next season.

Then Stats aren’t truth, even though the stats are true…

by C-Leaguer on Jan 11, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions

Well said……….

by hurricanefever on Jan 11, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions

Jussi’s is 14 minors. What you are forgetting is the double minor for injury. One penalty, 4 minutes.

The one thing you are not taking into consideration is also history, and how these players have faired over the last few years. That is also indicative of the role they should play, and get’s rid of the “Rosie is statistically better than Staal” issues. Your own analysis shows Rosie is statistically high in penalties taken for a forward. So in that regard he does hurt the team. Ruu’s excuse is he is a physical, hitting offensive forward—his numbers for penalties are consistent with other NHL forwards in the same role. That IS NOT Rosie’s role…

Allen as a tough defender who fights will have more penalties. He’s also slow of foot, so he will wind up taking penalties because of that as well. In general, defensmen do take more penalties because of their position. Same generally with Gleason—who also fights/stands up for temamtes.

Your penalty analysis also doesn’t take into account when the penalties are taken, in what zone, etc. Ruu doesn’t kill penalties—Jussi does, but not at the same extent as Rosie. If Rosie is a prime penalty killer, it doesn;t help when he puts himself in the box so much either…

The odd thing is C-leaguer, you know these things. You played and understand. You would expect the penalties mentioned from Ruu, Gleason, Allen, (maybe not Jussi—and yes Jussi has received a lot of criticism this year for his play as well—and for his penalties) but you would want that from these guys.

Not sure you would want or argue for LaRose’s penalties. Are you only making your point as a counter argument?

I also go back to your question about is he the best option the Canes have, even using this years stats. The answer is NO. He takes too many penalties, he will not turn into a true top six forward. We are better served waiting for Staaal to re-find his groove. Waiting for Jussi to get back his form, or for giving possible top six talent their shot: Dalpe, Bowman, Boychuk, Samson. We know Rosie does not belong, even now.

If we persist in trying to put him there based on your number support, then we fail as a team, we might as well give up and not worry about our future and settle into being a team of 3/4th Liners playing and maybe surprising teams that over look us. We’re close to that now.

by Squeaky83 on Jan 11, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions

What we saw last night is that LaRose is irrelevant. Was there ever a shift where anybody thought, “wow, if LaRose were there, things would be different and better”? LaRose in the top six for the Hurricanes is a joke. Saying LaRose does not take offensive zone penalties and other bad penalties is unsupportable by the facts. Samson in his first NHL call up this season was better in the top six that LaRose has been all season. People like LaRose which is wonderful if the route to a roster spot is based on being a popular player with fans and the organization.

I wish LaRose were a better hockey player. He gives it his all. He just is not a good fit for the Hurricanes given the other many choices that are available. Trying to tag LaRose with Staal’s bad plus/minus is a case of defending the indefensible. One can follow LaRose’s play on lines by watching what happens to the lines as soon as somebody else takes his place. He is what is known as the control. Where LaRose is is where offensive production is not. Where LaRose is is where other teams score. I wish it were not so. He’s a great guy with a super heart. It’s time to give others his roster spot and to get a draft choice or prospect for him. It’s time to turn the page.

by abramsdoug on Jan 11, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions

Seriously AD, I think almost everybody would agree that LaRose would be better suited for 3rd or 4th line duties; but the guy is not the “bringer of death.” LaRose is playing to the best of his abilities, if PK would actually spend money and JR would actually go out and try to acquire true talent; then we could have this LaRose not being top 6 material discussion. Management has forced the organizations hand of playing LaRose where he is playing.

Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!

by PackPride17 on Jan 11, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions

Trying to tag LaRose with Staal’s bad plus/minus is a case of defending the indefensible.

Dude, just go look at the tsn player pages for each. Check out the game by game. It’s not indefensible it fits the data. You can also check out NHL Shift Charts here to see what games they played together. Staal has put up poor +/- with and without LaRose. LaRose put up poor numbers only with Staal.

LaRose is a symptom, not a cause. There are serious cracks in the foundation and you’re yapping about a faucet that doesn’t match the rest of the upstairs bathroom aesthetically. It’s misguided to say the least.

Then Stats aren’t truth, even though the stats are true…

by C-Leaguer on Jan 11, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions

The odd thing is C-leaguer, you know these things. You played and understand. You would expect the penalties mentioned from Ruu, Gleason, Allen, (maybe not Jussi—and yes Jussi has received a lot of criticism this year for his play as well—and for his penalties) but you would want that from these guys.

Not sure you would want or argue for LaRose’s penalties. Are you only making your point as a counter argument?

The point I’m making here is that it’s unfair to categorize LaRose as a “knucklehead” without also categorizing other players the same way. You say Ruutu is going to take penalties because he plays physical, but if he can’t play physical without taking penalties isn’t that knuckleheaded? Same thing with Allen and the physicality.

Also, in case I wasn’t clear, Allen has more minors than LaRose. His two majors skew the PIMs per 60, but not the minors per 60.

I also go back to your question about is he the best option the Canes have, even using this years stats. The answer is NO. He takes too many penalties, he will not turn into a true top six forward. We are better served waiting for Staaal to re-find his groove. Waiting for Jussi to get back his form, or for giving possible top six talent their shot: Dalpe, Bowman, Boychuk, Samson. We know Rosie does not belong, even now.

When you talk about the younger players though, that’s a management decision that the team doesn’t seem to want to take. I won’t deny that it’s possible LaRose’s minutes could be better used by others. (As an aside I’ve quite frankly I’ve lost hope in most of the forward prospects, like I’ve lost hope in the team which is why I spend the time with the 11 month old as opposed to on here.) But that’s again a different question with a different horizon. You can’t make a line up with guys not on the roster. If the Checkers aren’t on the roster, what’s the coach to do? Muller and Mo can’t create guys out of thin air. Lord knows if Mo could have he would have.

If we persist in trying to put him there based on your number support, then we fail as a team

This I agree with, but I don’t aim my arrows at LaRose for this. By all measures he’s done as well as he possibly could in the role he’s in. The issue is JR. He’s the producer of this failed play and he needs to take the blame. You cast a back up dancer in a lead role and a play flops, well that’s the producers fault, not the dancers.

That said, I’m taking this analysis a step further and will have more to post in a couple of days. I’m looking at points per cap hit league wide. I’m very interested to see where it turns out.

Then Stats aren’t truth, even though the stats are true…

by C-Leaguer on Jan 11, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions

If I were to classify any current Cane for taking “knucklehead” penalties, it would probably be Allen. That man is good for one bad penalty per game.

Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!

by PackPride17 on Jan 11, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions

And that’s been his rep before we even picked him up….

by Squeaky83 on Jan 11, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions

Excellent response

I agree with you. It’s why elsewhere i’m starting to lament JR and his enforcement of PK’s budget.

btw I’m not a LaRose hater nor call him a knucklehead. But i do recognize his flaws with his benefits. Overall, imho, his negative begin to outwieght his positives the further he is moved off the 4th line. The break even point seems to be the third line. He’s more beneficial on the 4th line as an agitator, penalty drawer that he used to be, chipping in the occasional points. but that’s my take.

I feel PK is overhampering the team with his budget or is very clear how much JR can spend, because we have room to keep the prospects up, roughly a prorated portion of 500K while they’re up, and we can rotate who sits to let them play. We don’t do that—yet we go out an pick up Nodl so we have even less chance of playing them. Has JR, despite his words, decided our prospects are busts?

One last thing—look at LaRose’s give aways and taekaways. I have no idea what the stats say, my gut tells me he gives more than he takes….

by Squeaky83 on Jan 11, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions

Couple of follow ups

Jussi’s is 14 minors. What you are forgetting is the double minor for injury. One penalty, 4 minutes.

Is that accurate? I ask because Jussi is the only one I can see like that. I always considered a double minor two be two minor penalties. Either way I’d stick with 15 as the goal is to really suss out minor penalty impacts from major.

Your penalty analysis also doesn’t take into account when the penalties are taken, in what zone, etc. Ruu doesn’t kill penalties—Jussi does, but not at the same extent as Rosie. If Rosie is a prime penalty killer, it doesn;t help when he puts himself in the box so much either…

I would like to take in to account the zone the penalty occurred in, but I’m not sure if that data is available. As for taking a major PK player off the ice, Gleason and Allen (both over 2:40 a game)have considerably more PK time per game than LaRose (0:55 per game). Jussi too has more than LaRose (1:11 per game). This isn’t to say that LaRose couldn’t take fewer penalties, but the same could be said and worse about others on the team.

As for playing, I only played adult rec league. Moved south before I could really get in to any program as a kid.

Then Stats aren’t truth, even though the stats are true…

by C-Leaguer on Jan 11, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions

Ah

I thought you did play more…. I played more as a youngster and wasn’t good enough for College. Track was a better fit….

by Squeaky83 on Jan 11, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions

The LaRose Statistical Analysis

Cory,

Yes, it is true that LaRose is third in goals and fifth in points. Does that make LaRose the best candidate for a top six slot? Not in my view. Not according to the statistical analysis at http://www.shutdownline.com/hurricanes/statistical-analysis/the-truth-about-chad-larose.html. How many of LaRose’s goals came at even strength in the top six? How many of LaRose’s points came at even strength in the top six?

Then the question is whether LaRose is the best choice available on the third line. That question is a valid question to ask. In my view, the Hurricanes have better choices on the third line than LaRose. How can one explain LaRose’s dismal plus/minus statistic over the past two seasons other than by the fact he is not able to handle the demands of trying to shut down the NHL’s best players? Do you think that it is just a coincidence that Staal is plus/minus minus 23, the worst in the NHL or 807 out of 807 and that LaRose is fourth worst in the NHL and is ranked 802 out of 807? Surely not.

There is also the recurring problem of LaRose losing his hockey sense at very inopportune times. If one adds to LaRose’s deficits on defense the fact that often he is watching from the penalty box as the opposing team scores, his offensive contributions at even strength pale in comparison to the damage he causes at even strength. Nobody is blaming LaRose for going out on the ice when called upon to do so. Still, why is it so difficult for people to separate how they feel about the personality from a player with trying to assess the player’s role on the team.

Why pay Larose $1.9 million next season when Dwyer is going to be paid $625,000.00? That is almost economic suicide for a team that is hovering at the salary cap floor. The Hurricanes don’t need to spend the money on LaRose. The Hurricanes need to sign Ruutu for coming seasons. Why put LaRose on the fourth line at his salary?

There are only so many roster spots that are available. The Hurricanes are far too small and non-physical as it is. There are only so many 5’9" 180 lb players that can successful populate an NHL team. It’s far better to use the slots for smallish players on the highly skilled forwards like Jeff Skinner. If the Hurricanes didn’t have a surfeit of bottom six forwards, and if the Hurricanes organization were willing to spend near the salary cap, keeping LaRose might make sense. Even so, there is no logic in keeping both LaRose and Dwyer because both are smallish players. Given the similarity in size and role, I’d take Dwyer and save the money.

by abramsdoug on Jan 10, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions

Does that make LaRose the best candidate for a top six slot? Not in my view. Not according to the statistical analysis at http://www.shutdownline.com/hurricanes/statistical-analysis/the-truth-about-chad-larose.html.

That is absolutely incorrect. The article says that LaRose doesn’t match up league wide, not that he doesn’t match up on this team. The Cane’s don’t have access to players other than those signed to them. They can’t make a top 6 of Staal, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Kessel, and Giroux.

How many of LaRose’s goals came at even strength in the top six? How many of LaRose’s points came at even strength in the top six?

The first question is easily answered at NHL.com. Of LaRose’s 11 goals, 8 are at ES, 2 are on the PP and 1 is SH. As for the second question, based on your complaining about LaRose I’d assume he’s been in the top 6 all season, so all of them are while in the top 6 ergo 8 es goals have been scored while in the to p6.

Do you think that it is just a coincidence that Staal is plus/minus minus 23, the worst in the NHL or 807 out of 807 and that LaRose is fourth worst in the NHL and is ranked 802 out of 807? Surely not.

No, Staal brought down Chad’s +/-. LaRose was ~~1 thru the first ten games of the season. Thru 10 Staal was -9. It was after that LaRose was paired with Staal and when LaRose’s +/~~ fell. To carry that further LaRose is an even player since Dec 23 when he was shifted to Sutter’s line. Staal -3 in that same period of time.

As for the penalties see the analysis above. LaRose is no worse than Allen, or Jussi or Ruutu and not too far off from Gleason. If LaRose is a knucklehead what is the problem with the others?

Then Stats aren’t truth, even though the stats are true…

by C-Leaguer on Jan 11, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions

The LaRose bashing is significantly overboard. I was curious about this because I only recently re-joined this blog after a number of years away. I did not know of commentators personal leanings or tendencies. The commentator you responded is consistently negative about LaRose and does not let opportunities for those kind of comments slip by him. I looked up all of his comments on this blog and just had the system searched the word LaRose.

Here are some more statistics:

AD has posted 7,419 comments since joining this blog.

AD has used the word LaRose in 807 of those posts or 10.8%.

I scanned the LaRose comments (148 of them), each and everyone, since the beginning of this Canes season only. I only started reading this blog in early December so this was useful for me to understand the tendencies of folks I was corresponding. After that exercise, it did not make sense to go back any further Likely the other 700 or so LaRose comments might contain the same or similar things. Fully 95% of this seasons search results comments had one or several negative comments about LaRose. There were 5% or so that were either neutral or begrudgingly positive. You can tell the latter because those posts were typically one sentence or so and said something like yea he scored a great goal or something like that.

It appears that it does not matter what others say or in your case prove to him or disprove to him. I hate declaring generalities, but I have to say, in this case, he will always have a negative thing about LaRose. His history is consistent in that regard. And that benchmark for LaRose condemnation does in fact move as you have suggested. One of his comments on Oct 8, 2011 suggested that the LaRose money should have been used on a 20 goal scoring proven winger. Today it looks like Chad will meet his goal scoring expectations this year perhaps even more. Enjoy the back and forth if you decide to continue. Might make a difference, might not.

by hurricanefever on Jan 11, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, It’s cool. I’ve sparred with Doug many a time in the past. I’ve been pretty burnt out on the team since a few weeks before Mo was fired which is why I haven’t posted since then, only lurked. PP17’s analysis of Staal’s line mates/top 6 got me in the mood to do some analysis of my own and it’s been kind of a slow week at the office. I’ll probably check back out in a day or so.

Then Stats aren’t truth, even though the stats are true…

by C-Leaguer on Jan 11, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions

Same reason I have for my absence……….too much work, too little time for suffering over the last couple of years. Keep watching all the games though and will likely get back to the arena one of these days (long drive) .

I started down that stats path but just ran out of time. Have fun…….I will be reading with great fun!

by hurricanefever on Jan 11, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah

But I always appreciate your posts—agree or not. Keep comng back Dude.

by Squeaky83 on Jan 11, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions

I keep telling all of my Candian friends....

Who, by the way, have no idea who Chad Larose is….that when Chad Larose is in your top 6; is third in goals; and is your shootout anchor guy…………..you might just have a talent problem. Look I agree with Chad as a chirping hustling 3rd or 4th liner and on the PK, but he is overslotted this year. Yes he has 11 goals….wow 11 goals is third for an NHL team??!!. If the dude converted at a high % based on scoring chances, he would be the right guy for $1.9M. When JR called him the heart of the team, I knew we were in trouble. We just cannot be satisfied with good guys and fan favorites. I like all the personalities, just not the results.

"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr

by Caniac233 on Jan 10, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions

Look….. statistics can prove anything……

If he scored at the same rate as Ruutu he should have 7 more goals and a total of 18. That would mean he would be the top scorer on this team. But he only has to score 3 more goals to match Ruutu’s total, someone who is making over $4MM a year. The statistical numbers are already so small you can play with them all day and come out with 100 different conclusions. The point is Chad is already on pace for career numbers in goals, points and hits……and these numbers at the end of the year will be far more than anyone could have guessed at the beginning of the year. The guy has produced and in spite of all the naysayers here…….the current Canes coaching staff continue to give him ice time. This may not last but for now Muller and company have more faith in Chad that do a number of folks here.

And where is it fair to single him out for this overall treatment when so many of our other “stars” are failing……why not Staal or Jussi contempt or perhaps Ward contempt? It remains a deep mystery to me.

by hurricanefever on Jan 10, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions

To be honest; Staal, Jussi, and Ward all have taken a lot of heat this season. Those players have been major disappointments and just like LaRose, they have been part of the problem that is the Carolina Hurricanes this season.

Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!

by PackPride17 on Jan 10, 2012 5:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions

I would agree that the Carolina Hurricanes have a problem and it is the TEAM. Most individual players having contributed both positively and negatively, LaRose included.

by hurricanefever on Jan 11, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions

LaRose = problem with salary floor team

Excellent points, my take is LaRose’s salary is a result of JR & PK desire to stay near the salary floor. Not only does this eliminates spending money on many potential free agents (e.g. no way Canes were going to sign Brad Richards), it often ends up needing to overpay someone to stay above the floor.

Given that, overpaying a $600K guy 1.9M is not the worst thing. Look at Leino, Cole, Kaberle contracts. Especially a fan favorite like LaRose who worked his way through the system. Canes may be able to attract other players of his ilk in the future because of it.

So I can live with one salary like that. But it needs to be the exception, not the rule.

by mascothugger on Jan 10, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

LaRose Market Value?

2 Questions….

What realistically would we get for LaRose?
What is the Cap Floor and how does that work with trades? I mean at some point we have to take on some salary so we stay above the floor correct?

In Kirk we Trust

by Mullett on Jan 10, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions

I would hazard to guess a 3rd round pick……..but this is a crazy time in the NHL with so many teams with a shot at the playoffs who are hurting with injured players. I would not think he could be bundled in a real hockey trade but there might be 1 GM out there who thinks otherwise. Just don’t know.

You are right we cannot drop below the floor at any time. If JR salary dumps it would not take much before he has to take back salary dollar for dollar to remain above the floor. The closer to the trade deadline the more this becomes a moot point because salaries have been paid off a lot by then.

by hurricanefever on Jan 10, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions

I liked Samsons game last year…Many good shots taken, just did not go in…Need to concentrate on getting some shots on net and keeping up the d…Lets hope he does well.

by sdbrassfield on Jan 10, 2012 12:07 PM EST reply actions

I feel the same.

Wanna see him get some good breaks, b/c he’s been playing great for us in Charlotte this year.

Ready for the Canes to win the Cup again! :)

by thebl4ckd0g on Jan 10, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions

Emergency call-up so he won’t be subject to waivers going back down. Which will necessarily be as soon as LaRose is healthy.

by LewPuls1 on Jan 10, 2012 12:11 PM EST reply actions

So I get bringing up a player that fills a certain role. Samson is a good choice to replace LaRose, and also will allow Muller to get a good look at him. Bowman, Dalpe, Nash, and now Samson have gotten the call-ups since the Muller era began. One name is missing. That player can’t be feeling good about his status in the organization.

by Hockeydog on Jan 10, 2012 12:37 PM EST reply actions

based on boychuk’s play when he was here, i can’t say that he cares about his status in the organization. dude is biding his time hoping for a trade to a big market.

I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!

by Capt. Stinky on Jan 10, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, he’s hoping he gets to play his AHL hockey for a big market team.

by Hockeydog on Jan 10, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions

Toronto Marlies here I come. WhooHoo.

by drifterscape on Jan 10, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions

Marlies could probably hang with if not beat ’Canes right about now.

I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!

by Capt. Stinky on Jan 11, 2012 6:04 AM EST up reply actions

This will be interesting tonight

After seeing the stories of Monday’s practice I would hope this team comes out of the gate tonight with a bit of an edge. If not that may be a sign of these players just not caring and it may be time to blow up this team completely. My guess is we will see that edge but then can we get it 2 games in a row?
I guess know we will see what LaRose means to this team.
Looks to me he is using these call ups as mini “tryouts” to see who he likes and doesnt like for the future!

by Matt Katlen on Jan 10, 2012 1:06 PM EST reply actions

I think right now that should be the name of the game, evaluation of near ready AHL players. I also think they need to keep in mind who they may want to move at the trade deadline and make sure those players are not too nicked up to show their best efforts once we get into February. Resting a player may be a tip off to the player and everyone else they may be on the market, but I feel this deadline could be a good launching pad to the next few years if smartly executed.

by Hockeydog on Jan 10, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions

Checker's UFA's/RFA's

This is a ‘house cleaning" tryout for the Checkers as they have 15 ufa’/rfa’s on the roster ,and with Rask/Hoffman/Brody Sutter/Murphy/Lowe/Mahalak all coming up from Jr’s there some room being made.

by hellfish on Jan 10, 2012 2:16 PM EST reply actions

WIth or without LaRose, I hope Samson continues to play sound defensively, plays hard on the puck and wins his own individual battles, and creates some shots on goal. I’ve never thought he was an NHL player, except maybe as a 4th liner, but I’d love him to prove me wrong…

by Squeaky83 on Jan 10, 2012 3:03 PM EST reply actions

Why wouldn’t Samson be a NHL player?

He’s proven to be a consistent goal scorer in the AHL over the last 2 years, he’s got the size to play in the NHL.

Not every player develops their skills at the same pace.

by CanesFanFromLI on Jan 10, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions

Because he’s never scored goals in the NHL

by hurricane9 on Jan 10, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions

you have to remember he played Mo last year, probably didn't get the minutes to do anything

Mi piace l'hockey su ghiaccio.
l'hockey è buono qui .. sì?

by zippy8 on Jan 10, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions

I do

But he has played a significant number of games in the NHL the last couple of years. He’s not shown a lot of spark. He is strong on the puck and battles well against the boards, and has never seemed to hurt the team, but he’s never seemed to do much to get noticed in a contributory way. Therefore I see a very good AHL player who isn’t quite an NHL player talent wise, yet doesn’t have the size or game to be a solid 4th line guy.

by Squeaky83 on Jan 10, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions

Samson: I think you will like how he plays under Muller

Here’s my story and I’m sticking to it: you will like how Samson plays on this line and how he fits in an uptempo game. Muller will like Samson and will use him to help Ponikarovsky gather and put in rebounds. Samson is very determined and strong. The uptempo game will give him room and freedom to do what he does best which is win puck battles and put pucks on the net from all angles.

by abramsdoug on Jan 10, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions

Color me impressed

Kid looked like he meant to stay this time.

by Squeaky83 on Jan 10, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions

Samson has been playing this way for a couple of years. Under Maurice, when Samson was called up the only thing he was allowed to do in the four or five minutes he played was to avoid having a team score on him. It was somewhat maddening to watch. I do like Muller’s approach of putting young players in situations in which they can succeed. Samson has the hunger, size, skill set and mind set to play hard, grinding minutes. He is very difficult to drive off the puck and he has a sense of the good ice. Frankly, Bowman has a similar game, but is perhaps a better open ice hitter. The point is these kids really can play. All they need is a coach who will believe in them and give them the minutes as they earn them. Muller, fortunately, is that kind of coach. Maurice was not.

by abramsdoug on Jan 10, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions

Yep. I watch how the Flyers and the Rags despite their big budget HAVE to rely on their prospects for meanigful minutes. With the CAp limit, they have too much money tied up in top talent to pay for marginal NHLer like we do. But being a budget team you would have thought we’d have played more of our Charlotte talent—especially the forwards these last few year. Nope. I blame JR for some, but Mo more for not playing them and giving them a shot at real time. I blame Mo for teaching them not to make mistakes because they’ll never go back out on the ice except as a 4th liner and then for less than 5 minutes.

Muller lets them learn and recover, play to their given strengths. Still wish Dalpe and Bowman were up and learning the NHL game at their preferred position. And I think, though it was only one game this time (but Samson has significant NHL games previously to also judge by), that letting these guys play more and more shows the folly of resigning LaRose ANd Dwyer. Of signing marginal guys like Nodl.

Our prospects when given coaching and opportunity have looked as competant as the guys the Flyers, Rags, Sabres, Pens, Devils et al let play in their system where it matters. We haven’t as a team. That has to change. Bowman, and Samson have shown over the last two years they are better than LaRose: Better defensively, better on the puck, better shooting and passing skills. They have better size and they take less penalties. If they were given consistent PP time like Rosie, and time on the top lines, I highly suspect they’d have equal or more points, but with better +/— and fewer penalties.

by Squeaky83 on Jan 11, 2012 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

It's Not A Coincidence

The Hurricanes against the Flyers hung in quite well. Against the Lightning tonight, the Hurricanes were the far better team. It’s not a coincidence. The lines are balanced. The increased talent in the top three lines makes a difference. The accountability and lack of mistimed penalties (well other than one tripping by Staal) makes a difference. Samson does the things one wants to see in a second line and third line forward. Tlusty had a great game. Add Dalpe and Bowman and we’ll see even more of the benefit from letting fast, skilled forwards play an uptempo game.

by abramsdoug on Jan 12, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions