Carolina Comes Up Short in Shootout: Islanders 4, Hurricanes 3 (SO)
by Bob Wage on Jan 3, 2012 11:03 PM EST
in Carolina Hurricanes Game Recaps
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PrintThe Carolina Hurricanes had a 3-2 lead with just 1:30 left in the game, but relinquished the game-tying goal to Kyle Okposo then came up short in the ensuing shootout as they lost to the New York Islanders, 4-3 in front of 13,828 Tuesday night at the RBC.
After falling behind 1-0 just 3:40 into the game, the Canes tied things up on an Anthony Stewart tip in just 31 seconds later. Jay Harrison fired the puck on net and earned the first assist on the play.
Carolina would take the lead in the second period when Drayson Bowman went behind the net and stripped the puck from Evgeni Nabokov, then got it out to Brandon Sutter for an easy goal, but the Isles would tie things up early in the third.
Chad LaRose scored what looked like might be the game winner with just four minutes and change left, but once again the Islanders would not give up and tied it up with 1:30 on the clock.
After an evenly played overtime, the New Yorkers buried two shots in the shootout to just one for the Hurricanes to earn the win. The loss puts the Hurricanes in sole possession of last place in the East.
Next up will be Buffalo at the RBC on Friday night.
Game Notes:
- Jussi Jokinen scored the only Carolina goal in the shootout. Eric Staal and Chad LaRose were both stopped. Frans Nielsen got the game winner for NY and made it look easy, as did the first shooter for the Isles.
- The Canes outshot the Islanders 40-36. Staal led the way with five. Staal also had over 25 minutes of ice time, as did Tim Gleason.
- Justin Faulk had a team high three takeaways. He was beaten by Okposo on the important tying goal though.
- LaRose had a team high five hits but also missed the net four times on his shots, also a team high.
- The team won 57% of their faceoffs. Staal 56%, Sutter 42%, Jokinen 68%, and Brent 57%.
- Carolina has yet to win a game this season in a shootout.
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One thing I tweeted after the game but I think it merits mentioning here too: for whatever reason, the Canes aren’t nearly as inept on penalty shots as they are at the shootout. Since the lockout, the Canes are 11 for 26 (42%) on penalty shots, with Staal 3 for 5 in that span, but in the shootout they are 50 for 158 (32%).
So is it a mental thing? How can the same guy be 60% on penalty shots and 13% (2 for 15) in the shootout? I really don’t know, but it’s obvious that it isn’t as simple as “he sucks 1-on-1”.
Oh Captain, My Captain
Where the hell was our captain when we needed him? Or should I ask when our captain will start earning his pay? Or maybe the question is, "Why did Coach Muller waste a shoot-out spot on the Eight Million Dollar Man?
I think we can say Muller’s decision to put Staal and LaRose in the shootout is his first bad coaching decision.
But man, what is wrong with Ward. He looked so lost on those shootout goals. Have they not been reviewing video? The Islanders announcers knew exactly what was going to happen. “Let’s see, Perreault is shooting first. He will come in fast and shoot high glove, like he has always.” And before the shootout even began: “Nielsen will surely shoot second and will make his patented move where he does blah blah blah blah”, and then they show multiple clips of him doing the exact same move on goalies in recent memory. I thought the point of having scouts and video sessions about the shootouts was that goalies could learn the shooters tendencies. Looks like Ward was completely confused and just decided to huddle inside the net and let the Islanders score.
For the record, Nielsen is the career leader in shootout percentage
He’s i think at 60% now. They know what move he does 85% of the time, but it’s a really good move. His execution is near perfect….so its hard for a goalie, even knowing it’s coming, to stop it.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
+12 & +59
Ghost of Mo has officially entered the building and poured crack into Muller’s Gatorade. Geesh.
As for Wardo, I had posted in another string about him needing to grow up and play like a big boy if he’s making the big bucks. You can only complain about the defense in front of him so much; in a shootout, it’s just him. He needs to validate his paycheck and stop those shots.
I CAN'T BELIEVE STAAL FINALLY SCORED!!!
I can see the reasoning behind Muller going with Staal. He is giving the captain a chance to be the man. If Staal does convert it’s a great confidence builder, and the team needs a confident Staal. Maybe Rosie was a reward for his efforts last night. Personally I’d have gone with Jussi, Daple, and either Nodl or Ruutu. Heck I bet Faulk has some moves as well. Once Skins is back the team should have a nice shootout top 3 in Jussi, Daple, and Skinner.
I liked that he put Staal out in the shootout. I liked that he put LaRose out there as well. At least its not the same guys night after night. Jussi with a sweet move!
Good game from the Canes… Fun to watch.
by RobbinDollar on Jan 4, 2012 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
I guess Muller has figured out who NOT to put in the SO…Rosey? I thought omg what is going on here…I was hoping for Sutter/Bowman/Dalpe players they don’t have much SO tendency info on ,Allen’s penalty ,and the PK was horrible ,but the Isles were lucky on the goal by Nielsen…Banked of the boards pass…cmon man.
Finding Ways to Lose; Learning Again How to Win
The 2011-2012 Hurricanes have a propensity for finding ways to lose games, whereas good teams find a way to win. Muller is having to teach the Hurricanes players who to believe in the system and themselves; and accordingly they have to learn again how to win close games. It’s obviously going to be a long season, with many more disappointments along the way. The Hurricanes started this downward spiral in terms of not knowing how to inculcate a winning attitude and approach during the 2009-2010 season; and it hasn’t turned around completely yet.
The good news is that the meltdowns are shorter in duration. Also, many of the young players like Skinner, Sutter, Dalpe, Faulk, and Bowman are money-time players who seize the moment. On another positive note, Yakupov was getting rave reviews in the Canada/Russia game tonight.
I think Yakupov is going to be Columbus bound. I just don’t seeing us finishing worse then them. I asked in the game thread what you thought about grabbing Ryan Murray if we’re picking 4th-6th and the big 3 forward prospects are off the board when we pick. I’d pick him up even though it wouldn’t be a popular choice but we have Dalpe, Skinner and can pick up another top 6 forward in free agency. Murray looks like a future perennial All-Star and putting him in the stable with Faulk, Dumoulin, McBain and Murphy would look very attractive down the road. Of course, I’d love to pick up one of the big 3 but I just don’t think we’ll finish worse than Columbus and probably another two teams will take continue to tank (most likely Anaheim with their pitiful defense and subpar goaltending and you can never count out Edmonton or the Isles to once again land a lottery pick)
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
Ryan Murray versus Forwards
I know what I would do in this situation. I would take any one of the top four forwards. Murray, however, is likely to be taken by the Hurricanes because they are determined to follow the theory of “take the best player available.” I think the Hurricanes are likely to be in the bottom five; and I also think that Murray could be the first defenseman taken. Columbus seems dedicated to the idea of “Fail for Nail.” I don’t see them getting out of the cellar. I doubt the Hurricanes can crawl up any higher than 26th. There is something missing on the winner’s attitude part of the equation. Individually, all the guys on the team have superb character; but somehow again and again the team shows it is less than the sum of its parts.
Yeah, I’m with you about this team not finishing between 26th and 29th. Yakupov seems to be the player we need, noticed he notched 3 assists in the WJC against Canada last night. Regardless, at least I’m pretty sure we’re going to come out of the draft with a really good play whether it be one of the top 3 forwards or Murray.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
by anonymousJ on Jan 4, 2012 8:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The chicken or the egg
Are our real problems offense or defense? The assumption here has always been offense. But it is time to question that point of view. Our goals scored total ranks us right in the middle of the conference. Solve the PP problem and we are above average instantly. Our goals against is dead last in the league. We have given up 11 more goals than the 28th place Blue Jackets! Soon to depart UFAs are Gleason, Allen and Spacek. Our March blueline will likely have 2 dmen currently in Charlotte. There is ample reason to draft a dman if he is the best player available.
Both offense and defense are in need of a rebuild. Taking the best player available just makes sense.
We have some nice looking prospects on the defensive end, but they don’t always pan out. A highly touted player is always valuable, either to the organization itself or for trading to fill other holes.
I’ve been trying to find as many reviews of prospects as possible, including mock drafts (I realize it’s extremely early). However, I agree their is a lot of analysis out there saying Murray is similar to a young scott niedermayer; very early but how can you not love the comparison. Another frequent choice for us is Matt Dumba, who although has offensive prowess, he is highly known for his Phaneuf-esque hits. That’s appealing to me.
I would be pleased with selecting either, granted I strongly agree and know we have a stronger need for forwards. One player I would consider is Galcheynuk. Not only was he in the conversation of being a top 3 before his injury, he has a strong hockey heritage and a great agent in Larionov. Furthermore, he is fluent in English and is eligible as may have even declared himself to play for the U.S. national team. His season is lost but the talent is there. No reason to let that deter us from drafting him.
by Caniac Kid on Jan 4, 2012 9:05 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Galchenyuk and Yakupov
If I were Jim Rutherford, from what I know now, I would take Galecheyuk if he were available, even over Yakupov (but I’d love to have both players). Galchenyuk fits what the Hurricanes need in terms of being a big, powerful, gifted, Getzlaf kind of center. I think he could justify moving Staal to wing, which is where he really belongs ideally. You could also see a Skinner/Galchenyuk/Rask line in the not too distant future or a Dalpe/Galchenyuk/Staal line. Yakupov is amazing. There is no doubt about it. It would be a good problem to have to be compelled to choose between Yakupov and Galchenyuk.
Why do keep suggesting that Staal belongs at wing? Is it because he is not a pass-first guy? He has improved his faceoffs and I would argue that he is better with more ice than the sometimes limited ice a winger has.
And I thought you said Rask was a Getzlaf type and he is a center. So now, you want to get another Getzlaf type center and move Rask to wing. I know you love our prospects, but are all of them really going to work out as you envision? Could we not actually trade for a proven young player to improve our team rather than hope all of these prospects become elite NHL players?
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
I think Staal is a natural Center. I think they have that position right. Only a few players in the world would play center over him if they were on the same team/same line… Played with Crosby so thats my guess why Doug has that opinion.
I think Staal is a center and to take it further one of the best Centers in the world.
I would love any of the top Forwards in the draft.. How good would Nail look in a Canes Jersey?
by RobbinDollar on Jan 4, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I have wavered between thinking Staal is more suited to center or wing. His face-offs have been much improved, and his two way game is getting better. He’s not a gifted passer, but I think with some really skilled wingers he’d be a better playmaker. If the team fell into a legitimate #1 center I wouldn’t mind him swinging over to wing.
Disagree—he’s pretty good at passing when he’s got the right linemates… You don’t get 100+ points and not be able to pass the puck). He’s certainly racking up more assists than goals lately, and that’s with the linemates we have now.
Is he shoot first? Yes, we need that, we’re short scorers. But even in the AHL the one year he racked up good assists with good wingmen. When he chooses to, he passes just fine. The people who corral the passes half the time don’t bury them. LaRose, for geting into the right position, didn’t convert often…. Doesn;t help your assists when people don’t finish.
Staal scored 100 points once in 2005-2006. In the 5 seasons since then he has averaged 74 points per season. High of 82, twice at a low of 70. 203 goals over this period with 170 assists.
Well he isn’t surrounded by the Henrik and Daniel either. He can be a 100pt guy. Put him out with Marty and Stamkos and see his numbers.
Agreed. During Staal’s 100 point year, he had another 30 goal scorer on his line with Cole and a 50 point assist man in Stillman (who also had 21 goals). There were also 2 other 30+ goal scorers on that team and a 25 goal guy. It’s funny that that season the Canes were very top 6 heavy in regards to point production.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
If Staal is an elite natural center, and he may well be, then why was he played at wing the entire time in the Olympics? Why is Staal having such difficulty defensively? The fact that Staal is excellent doesn’t mean there aren’t other young centers who could play better positionally and leave Staal with more time in the offensive zone. I’d take as many Getzlaf centers as the Hurricanes can find for next season and years beyond in the new conference. Staal’s minus 23 is the worst in the NHL; and is indicative that he’s not the greatest two-way elite center in the NHL. Being moved to wing is not a form of punishment.
Why did Staal play wing in the Olympics, because someone had to. Half of the freakin’ forwards on the Canadian team were centers. Is Mike Richards not a center because he played wing in the Olympics? I’m not saying Staal is the best center in the game, but I do think he better there than wing.
And Staal is not the greatest two-way center, but most first line centers aren’t either. Is Steven Stamkos a great two-way center, no. His +/- rating is more about his line scoring & offensive pressure than being a good defender. Maybe if the Canes actually built a line to compliment Staal, then his +/- would be as bad as it is. He was a 1 last night, was that goal against Staal’s fault? His +/ is bad and is partially a result of his play, but it is not all because he isn’t a good two-way center.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
I dont think Dumba will make the top 10 and I think even fall out of the top 20. He can sure hit but not worth a top pick for a guy that can only run into people.
I would be really upset if we drafted him anywhere in the first round.
by RobbinDollar on Jan 4, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Really? Because majority of draft experts have him as superb skater, good vision, and hockey sense…majority have Murray, Trouba, and Dumba as being the top three defenseman so not really sure how you can’t or don’t see him being in the top ten let alone 1st round
by Caniac Kid on Jan 4, 2012 12:28 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Oh he will be a first rounder for sure… I just don’t want him with our 1st pick. I said I think even fall out of the to 20, that’s a stretch.
Im no expert on prospects but would shy away from that type of player that high up in the draft. Thats all I was saying. I have seen the kid play and think he is good but not as dynamic of a player should be to be drafted that high.
Maybe it was the few games I saw of him he was off. Who knows.. Im not an expert, just sharing my opinion.
by RobbinDollar on Jan 4, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Oh Captain, My Captain
So where the hell was the captain during the shootout? For that matter, why is Mr. Karmanos paying eight million dollars a year to bounce pucks off opposing goalkeeper’s chests? If we can fire a coach, why can’t we fire a player who hasn’t earned his overinflated salary since 2006?
guy with the vuvuzella = gone as well, please
I CAN'T BELIEVE STAAL FINALLY SCORED!!!
by Capt. Stinky on Jan 4, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Results of The Rosie Game
In the game day preview string I started The Rosie Game where folks could guess how our boy would do. Only had one taker besides me, and since the game wasn’t televised I could not see some of the results, marked N/A below, but here’s what we could muster insofar as results:
Rosie’s stats per contest categories:
Goals: 1
Whiffs: N/A
Times bounced off the puck: N/A
Shots wide: 4
Bad penalties: 0
Guesses by PackPride17:
Goals: 0
Whiffs: 2
Times bounced off the puck: 5
Shots wide: 5
Bad penalties: 1
Guesses by Capt. Stinky:
Goals: 1
Whiffs: 3
Times bounced off puck: 4
Shots wide: 2
Bad penalties: 0
By my in-depth, hyper-critical review, although PackPride17 was closer on the shots wide, I won on goals and bad penalties, so I won by a nose.
Really looking forward to the next ’Canes game for the second installment of The Rosie Game!!!
I CAN'T BELIEVE STAAL FINALLY SCORED!!!
LaRose Fascination Syndrome
It’s to the point of almost being a clinical diagnosis. LaRose Fascination Syndrome seems to be contagious at the organizational and coaching level. How else can one explain why a player with no statistical support for his use in the top six was played top six minutes; then moved to the third line where he and Staal stand heads and shoulders above the other players in negative plus/minus statistics; and where LaRose stands alone in offensive miscues. Other indications of the LaRose Fascination Syndrome include the fact that although LaRose and Stewart both had one goal, LaRose’s goal is perceived as more significant and just better than anybody else’s goal.
Laviolette was criticized, including by me, for saying that LaRose was a fourth line player and would never be more than that. Well, I think Laviolette seemed to have a natural immunity from LaRose Fascination Syndrome. If one puts LaRose’s salary aside for the discussion, based on the total body of his work, he’s a solid fourth line player.
Jim Rutherford has said that the 2011-2012 team lacks players who want to win at all costs. I would say the organization needs to look first in the mirror. The problem starts at the top. To be successful with this insanely low salary budget, the Hurricanes organization has to be intensely objective. When making choices as to which players to keep and which players to jettison, Jim Rutherford and his staff have to put aside favored son status for players and go with those players who help the entire team win. With three straight years of failing to make the playoffs, significant player changes are needed. Also needed is a much more analytical approach toward the players who stay. If LaRose stays, he needs to be used within his skill set and more talented players need to be placed in the top nine. The other choice is for the Hurricanes organization to continue on the present path; and in the new conference, finishing out of contention could become the norm.
I hesitate at bringing this up again, since last time I did so I got flamed pretty bad, but…
Is the organization looking to move? The one sure way to do that is to continually put a crap product on the ice to drive away casual fans, then season ticket holders, and then finally corporate sponsors and say, “Hey man, nobody wants us here. Let us out of our lease, we have investors to answer to.”
Even though the ’Canes have a handful of minor local investors, that is no guarantee that those investors (a) matter in terms of making such a big decision as to move or not or (b) that they necessarily oppose the team moving so long as it makes them money. (Does Jim Goodnight only invest in NC businesses/stocks?)
So here’s the scenario…you have a team with a well-known, well-liked ex-NHL player as coach, a cadre of talent (Skinner/Sutter/Ward/Staal, even though the latter are stinking up the joint), and an organization that has successfully relocated in the past. You get fans to stop coming, etc. to ease the pain.
Could be the perfect second team for the Toronto market, perhaps.
Anyways, grasping at straws here. I have NO CLUE why this organization continues to accept sucking as the status-quo.
TRADE SOME PLAYERS! DO SOMETHING!!!
I CAN'T BELIEVE STAAL FINALLY SCORED!!!
I doubt seriously that the Hurricanes organization is considering moving. I think the ownership and management is transitioning away from a a family run business into a more traditional hockey organization. Muller, MacLean, and Lewis all come in as fresh faces with fresh approaches. This season has been an epic fail; but the overall path by the changes is one of progress.
The next step will be even more painful for long-time fans. Inevitable, the coaching staff and Rutherford have to meet and plan the future. Just as coaches have changed, players will change. The Hurricanes are losing consistently for a reason. It isn’t mysterious. The Hurricanes as a team lack enough talent to win consistently. Really nice people who are on the team will have to go elsewhere and will be replaced by other really nice people who are more talented.
Here is a different opinion. Karmanos with Rutherford planned not to spend money on inflated long-term contracts knowing that there is a new CBA around the corner and wanted to put themselves in the best possible position for next season (if there is one) and onwards. They are reasonably happy with what is going on this season knowing that the fruits of their plan will come through in the not too distant future…..
The Canes have a favorable 20 year lease on the RBC/PNC arena. Not going anywhere soon. The team on the ice that is very likely to move soon won the shootout last nite.
There isn’t much that can be done to this team at this point in the season. Closer to the deadline trades will happen. But those trades will cost us our UFAs and will not immediately improve our team. Things will get worse before they get better. Look at March’s schedule. It is brutal. Imagine our defense without Gleason, Spacek and Allen. It’s gonna happen.
Finally I agree with mmeli that PK and JR recognize that the poor performance of this team is a necessary evil. Hopefully something better will rise from the ashes of this season.
Moving
Not going to happen for a very long time if at all for many reasons……all of which have been posted before by others.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 4, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
You might have something there
I don’t think the teams first plan is to move, but I have wondered if they think they came to the wrong NC city. I can envision a swap of teams from Raleigh to Charlotte with Charlotte’s market have more and deeper pockets.
You mentioned the poor product on the ice, but I also wonder about the product off the ice. As a long time season ticket holder (but not currently – my decsion to not by tickets was not related to the team), I’ve found myself not really missing going to the games. Its the same experience that it was 10 years ago. Same crappy food, same crappy music (how about give us some more classic hockey organ?), same crappy games and jokes on the jumbo-tron, same crappy game introduction. No one in the organization has put any effort into the off ice game experience in years.
I don’t know if that rant has got anything to do with the teams plans at driving away fans, but I do wonder.
Raleigh
I’m from Charlotte, and I still think Raleigh’s a good place for the Canes. Most importantly because they do not have to compete with three other professional sports teams. Hockey is (was?) a tough sell in the Southern states, despite it obviously being the best sport on the planet. Dropping it into the Triangle gave a major league pro sports team to an area with only college sports. RTP area is growing, and is arguably more diversified than Charlotte due to Charlotte’s reliance on one industry, i.e. banking. This could mean that peoples’ disposable income isn’t as volatile, which is a necessity for a new sport in a smaller market.
This works well for the Checkers too because they’re a cheaper alternative in Charlotte for families and people paying higher rents downtown.
I’m 100% with you, 210beer, about the crappy music and food, although that seems to be a plague affecting all stadiums at all levels in all sports. I’ve recently gone to a Panthers game and a Houston Aeros game and the music was 1) awful and 2) often inappropriate, such as song clips immediately after the opponents scored a goal. I don’t know if stadiums are hiring terrible marketing departments or what. Or maybe it’s trying to pander to the children and attendees brought by fans who aren’t interested in the game itself? I’ll rant about terrible jumbotron clips at Canes games all day. And Ric Flair.
Considering that Raleigh will eventually have a greater population and larger metro area than Charlotte, I think they made the right decision in the long-term.
I also believe Charlotte would struggle to support a 3rd professional sports franchise. Obviously the Panthers (and the NFL) are king in the area, but the Bobcats with their beautiful new arena are exactly drawing great. Over the past 5 seasons (current one not included), the Bobcats are averaging 15,292 @ 80.3% capacity. That’s good for an average of 24th in the league in attendance. Over the same span, the Hurricanes are averaging 16,449 @ 87.8% capacity, good for an average of 20th in the league in attendance.
So while Charlotte is currently the larger city, has more corporate sponsorship, a newer arena, and a sport more commonly played here in North Carolina; the Canes are drawing more people to games in every season except for 09/10 than the Bobcats. This would tell me that Charlotte might not be able to support the Canes better than Raleigh.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
Bobcats...boo.
Well, the people of the city did vote against building the Bobcats arena even when it was bundled with popular education bonds. So I’m not sure the attendance numbers are a fair comparison since there was opposition to the Bobcats, rather than simply building new support like for the Canes, from the get-go. But I’m still glad the Canes are in Raleigh and believe it’s going to continue to grow a fan base and be better able to support the team long term.
Just out of curiousity, how are the Checker’s drawing?
I agree, and don’t think that the Hurricanes would move to Charlotte for most of the reasons you listed. But comparing the Canes to the Panthers isn’t fair. I mean first and foremost we’re talking about a great product in the NHL in general vs. the NBA – I personally wouldn’t cross the street to see an NBA game.
The only reason I bring it up is because in a way the Canes are already testing the market by moving their AHL affiliate, and by hosting pre-season games there. And there are existing facilities. And as much as the Canes alumni base favors the triangle, would it be an easier sell to free agents to come to a so called “real city” instead of the “large town” that Raleigh feels like? I’m not trying to put down Raleigh – I love it. These are just thoughts that go through my head.
I love the NHL and I agree the product is better, but I would say that most of the US and particular North Carolina would be more likely to watch basketball than hockey. I think that is proven by the TV deals both leagues have, the number of residents that play basketball compared to hockey, and the advertising/endorsements NBA players receive as compared to NHL players.
I also do not believe the Checkers became the minor league Canes to test the market for a possible move. I think they did it to attempt to connect Charlotte to the Canes and grow their market. I also don’t know if Charlotte would be any more or less of a draw for a free agent than Raleigh. Both have their good points and bad points, but if a free agent wants a “real” city, I think there are plenty of options in the NHL that would put Charlotte to shame.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
by PackPride17 on Jan 4, 2012 10:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There are two sides to the “Larose Fascination Syndrome”. Get rid of Larose and replace him with any other 1.9 million per player you care to name and the Hurricanes still ain’t making the playoffs. Yet from reading the posts here, one gets the impression that a lot of us think the Canes problems begin and end with #59. While I too tend to think that Larose is often overslotted, et cetera, I don’t think the team’s problems are as simple as that.
That leads me to another point I find interesting: how our preconceptions as fans color our perceptions of player performance. Often, when rehashing a game with other fans whose opinions I respect, I’ll say something like “I thought player A had a good game” and I’ll hear back “Oh yeah, I thought he sucked.” We all tend to notice the good plays our favorites make while discounting the bad ones while the opposite is true for our less favorite players. I agree that it’s incredibly important for the organization to be ruthlessly objective in evaluating its players but I think that’s a lot easier said than done. And for us fans, who have such an emotional investment in our team, it’s darn near impossible.
I totally agree with the points you are making. It is very difficult to be objective. I would also say that no third line player can single-handedly sink a team on a consistent basis; or at least it would be very rare to do so. It’s different with an ill-suited player on the first line or second line. The issue with LaRose is that it is symptomatic of an organizational approach. It’s the same approach that chose to let Cole walk (which was understandable); but then signed Kaberle (which was a disaster) for essentially the same money; and decided not to sign a first tier top six forward to replace Cole. Also, because the Hurricanes are light on upper end talent, it puts more pressure on the other players to over-achieve. So by himself, LaRose is not the master of disaster, such as Kaberle.
On the other hand, LaRose being over-slotted was a tipping point in conjunction with other even more significant factors, such as Kaberle, Staal’s slump, Ward’s slump, the lack of a top six forward, Skinner’s injury, and Pitkanen’s injury.
Being objective… LaRose played a great game last night! Over-slotted or not the guy brings it every night. This is the team… get mad at JR and PK not Rosie.
Further objectivity… Worst player on our team last night was on the top line….Dalpe was a complete disaster, really sucked it up. Honestly he looked terrible, cost us chances and turned over the puck over and over.
by RobbinDollar on Jan 4, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree! Dalpe was not great last night, but he was far from the worst player on the ice. That title will again go to McBain, at least in my eyes. I don’t know what it is, but since Kaberle left; McBain has really stood out even more for his poor play. Yeah he’s racked up some points, but he is a disaster waiting to happen in his own zone.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
How much of that is lack of chemistry with Tim Gleason? They seem like oil & water to me.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 4, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
It probably has some to do with it, but it’s really with everybody. The only player he really looks good with IMO is Pitkanen and that is because he just slaps everything Joni’s way and lets him handle it.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
Good info.. I didnt notice Jamie last night.. which to me is a good thing to not noticing a D.
I still firmly stand on my opinion that Dalpe was brutal last night. Must have been a rough one for him as he has looked good and has impressed me of late. Watch the game again and watch him specifically he was really bad!
by RobbinDollar on Jan 4, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I honestly am not seeing what PP17 is seeing when he looks at Bainer. He looks leaps and spades better this year than last year and even better now than he did at the start of the year.
Are there mistakes? Yeah, but I’m not seeing them to the same extent or with the same level of clarity that other people are.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
I’m sorry, I do not see it. It really appears that McBain is just full of mistakes and often lead to a scoring chance for the other team. It’s like that horrible turnover with no pressure whatsoever last night in the 3rd period.
I really just don’t see the progression in his game that you speak of. He is offensively talented, but is just plain bad in his own zone.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
I dont think he is bad in his own zone. I have noticed where he is pushed off the puck because he is playing soft but I wouldn’t consider him a liability at all.
He is only a -6 on a team that is overall a giant – … combined our team is – 128
He has a better +/- then Joslin, Harrison, Pits, and Faulk.
He made a great play in Tavaras last night.
I see the same as you. He’s a liability – plain and simple. I hate to pull a Sittler-esque move here but I have played for years as an offensive defenseman and I don’t like what I see at all.
McBain, to me, appears no better than he did last season. He is still slow, an awkward and ugly skater, his wrist shots are still pathetic little lobs (he’s got a nice slapper though, if only he would use it), and above all, he is as soft as you can be.
On the other hand, he does display signs of having great vision. He does make a few beautiful passes, but for as many nice passes he completes, he turns the puck over twice as much. He shies away from all contact and relies solely on poke checking. He does have a good stick, but in the NHL, you have to be physical too. No point sticking your stick out if the forward can skate around it without being pestered. His board play is excruciatingly bad. His positioning is also lackluster, and it is no surprise that you will often seem him skating towards his position after a scoring chance has already occurred.
He’s got potential, but I don’t think he has any place in the NHL right now, especially with Joslin sitting in the press box.
I definitely see mistakes, but not in a glaring “oh my god, he’s the worst player I’ve ever seen” kind of way. I do wish he’d be more physical since he never seems to hit anyone. Ever. But I’ve also watched him break up scoring chances with an active stick. I’ve seen him make sloppy passes, but I’ve also watched him make picture-perfect ones. Do I think he’s better on a game-by-game basis than he was last year? Maybe not. But when I think back to the overall feeling I had with him on the ice last year versus the feeling I have with him on the ice this year, I’m more comfortable. I notice him less which I’ve always considered to be a good thing for a d-man.
With all that being said, my guess is that the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Maybe we’re both looking and micro-analyzing for things that support our ideas already. Maybe I’m more likely to focus on the good pass or the nice stick work whereas what sticks out in your mind is the turnover. I’ll have to watch his game more closely on Friday night to see if I’m just seeing what I want to see.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
He’s definitely not the worse player ever, but he isn’t playing to his potential at all. He is a borderline AHL/NHL player on 95% of the teams in this league, and if he were not a highly touted prospect, he would either be switched with Joslin or playing in the AHL full time at the moment.
Don’t forget, as lousy a hind-sight decision as it was to run Rosie on the shootout, he’s still 3rd in points (among healthy players) on the team.
AD
LFS is fairly easy to understand—both from Mo’s and Muller’s perspctive.
Mo liked LaRose because he was a veteran, and he works back hard on backchecking and throws hits, goes to the dirty areas for those garbage, not pretty goals Mo loved. LaRose is a very poor passer with limited ice vision/hockey sense, so he shoots the puck a lot—Mo didn’t like fancy passing and wanted players to just shoot the puck, battle and grind and go to the dirty areas to get their goals. That’s the definition of LaRose and why he was a Mo favorite despite all his other failings. To be honest if you look at everything Mo wants from his forwards, LaRose met all the criteria. Mo never mentioned nice passing. Mo never mentioned scoring. Mo always talked about hard work…
Lavi on the other hand values offense and skill—the ability to get the puck and keep posession of it, and to score. Lavi isn’t as big on a hard working back check or throwing hits—wants it, but not like Mo—Lavi wants to just get the puck, get it up ice, get it to the right guys and get it in the net—Lavi wants to have the puck on his guys stick, and for them to use that posession to get the puck on the net. LaRose isn’t capable of that. He can’t work Lavi’s system—LaRose turns the puck over quite a lot—whether it’s clears tossing the puck out of theD zone (loss of posession) or bad passes, missing the net on shots, getting knocked off the puck so he’s not a puck posession guy. He’s not that good a taking the puck away from forwards either as he is outmuscled often. And on offense, he can’t hit the scorers with passes and can’t hit the net unless he gets enough chances that the odds just work out. So for Lavi, LaRose is a bust, a 4th liner.
Muller is in between. He wants his team to work out, to go after the puck, to be agressive in the offensive zone, to use checks but also to backcheck hard. to give the right effort every shift. To work good passing and use puck posession to generate offense, but also to work into the dirty areas to get the garbage goals. To get the puck to the net and follow it up. Muller is also a coach that rewards effort and sticking to his system. Rosie puts forth the effort, and comes back hard on the back check. He’s always got the right attitude and he’s always moving his legs. He scored to give us the lead, and didn’t take a dumb penalty so Muller rewarded LaRose with the opportunity. Rosie actually generated a half decent chance—better than Staal did. I think Muller sees Chad isn;t an offensive dynamo and doesn’t pass well so he’s been keeping him off top lines, but he does see Rosie working hard and doing all the things he askes for as a coach, Rosie his creating points for the team (Albeit at the expense of others and not at the rate he’s hurting the team imho). So Muller has to reward the work.
I think if Stewart worked like LaRose each game he’d be on a top 6 line for an audition. He doesn’t…
Fans like Rosie for the same reasons. Hockey guys dislike him overslotted because we just see results. Muller also see the results, hence Rosie not on top Lines, but he also sees effort and dedication and working within his system so Rosie earnes brownie points. Rosie’s a good guy as well and I’m sure Muller likes him personally…..
by Squeaky83 on Jan 4, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Third Line
Sutter and Bowman together are doing great. Sutter is getting offensive defendants. So why not play Tlusty/Sutter/Bowman or Bowman/Sutter/Stewart. Next season is going to be very, very difficult. Some people tend to overlook the fact that LaRose has been poor defensively. The plus/minus statistic is an overview. If a player is substantially worse that the other players on his team and particularly if that trouble follows him from line to line, he is having difficulty positionally. It’s a relative or comparison test.
Again, if LaRose’s salary is ignored, he does fine, but not spectacularly, as a fourth line player. The Hurricanes have an abundance of skilled fourth line players. I would much rather have Brett Sutter as a fourth line player because to my mind he fits that role more inexpensively than LaRose and gives more bang for the buck, so to speak.
I will not trash LaRose for decisions made by coaches. He did not insist that he play on the top line or the second line. He did not insist that he play on the PP or be one of the top 3 in a shootout or play the first line in OT. The coaches made that decision. These are coaches who all are new and bring a fresh perspective to the Canes organization without any preconceived notions at that. Are blog posters doubting that with this Larose bashing?
LaRose has played beyond his skills at every NHL level. He has done that since I began to watch him at the ECHL level. He gives it all his has every shift…..or at least 95% of the shifts he is given since it is hard for anyone to peak at 100% all the time.
You want statistics…..here are some…….
Games Played 41………tied for first….durable
Goals 10 Tied for 3rd best on the team
Points 20 5th best forward on the team
PP goals Tied for 3rd best on the Team
Hits Hard to find accurate #’s but I know he leads the team now in hits with close to 100 hits (I think that is right).
Now…these are the stats I could find…….I agree Larose is a serviceable 4 line and occasional 3rd line player if slotted on paper. I would suggest the above stats so far for this season has proven once again LaRose is playing beyond his skill set. Stated another way are these expected stats from a 4th liner 40 odd games into the season? What else would you have the man do who is being asked by the coaches to perform beyond his slot? It is my opinion that it is time to forget about this so called Larose Fascination Syndrome thing and concentrate on more important issues for the Canes. I think most of you would agree that Larose is not the most important issue facing the Canes. Larose is a proven team player and uncomplaining…….. I, for one, am very appreciative of what he continues to give as best he can…….our “Chuck Norris” of Canes hockey.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 4, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nor is Rosie responsible for his salary. Anyone who has played a lot on Staal’s line is badly negative in plus/minus. LaRose is a scapegoat much easier to blame than others. He is not the problem as some suggest ad nauseum.
LaRose’s plus/minus numbers show he is not just in negative territory consistently on the first line. Here’s the link to his game log:
http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8469812&season=20112012&view=gamelog
Answer me this……are the numbers I showed above something you would expect for a person whose skill set is a 4th line winger?
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 4, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, they are; and especially when one looks at the defensive lapses, missed open shots, missed passes, and bad penalties. If LaRose was a top six forward, did Laviolette just miss the boat on LaRose, which of course is possible.
OK….so 41 games in the season would you would naturally expect all 4th line wingers to have season totals for these stats to be roughly:
Goals: 20
Points: 40
PP goals: 6
Hits: about 200
Is this what you really mean for a 4th line winger?
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 4, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
What I would expect is that if any other forward on the Hurricanes team were: (1) to play the minutes on the first and second line that LaRose played, and (2) abandoned the defensive coverages and good positioning to maximize their scoring chances, and (3) got the passes LaRose received, they would have equal or better statistics. For example, Stewart’s ability to score goals per shift played is vastly higher than LaRose’s. Stewart’s goals per minute played, without factoring in his linemates, is vastly higher than LaRose’s.
If you consider LaRose not to have a regression to the mean and assume he will have 20 goals, and you also assume he will continue to have the same defensive lapses, he would have 20 goals and would be plus/minus minus 34. In the past 123 games LaRose is plus/minus minus 38.
AD….I respect your opinion….all are well thought out. But your expectation of someone who has 4th line skills to perform as a legitimate 1st or 2nd line winger is not realistic. Else all 4th line wingers should be able to produce at a level appropriate for the top 2 lines. That is just not the case with Chad or any correctly slotted 4th line winger. In a normal world, 4th line wingers would rarely achieve these projected numbers but yet Chad will if he keeps up this pace. I say again, Chad is exceeding expectations for someone with a 4th line winger skill set and I can not ask for anything more.
The Canes woes this year are not to be placed on the shoulders of someone who exceeds expectations in a lot of key areas but on those who do not meet expectations. I really believe Chad has underperformed in certain areas but I also believe he works very hard to correct them just as every player is suppose to do. However, the statistics of importance to many folks continue to be goals and points and checking/forechecking abilities. The numbers for him are pretty good.
I might also add that under Lavi I think Chad grew as a player but yet was properly slotted by Lavi.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 4, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
There is an apples and oranges comparison. LaRose under Maurice spent a large amount of time on the first two lines. He also received time on the power play. The analysis of saying LaRose would be expected with less time on ice and especially in the top six or on power plays to score the same amount of goals begs the point. LaRose in the top six hurts the other players on his lines. He lacks the skill set to be a top six forward. His game deteriorates when put in that position. The Hurricanes have better choices than LaRose on the third line. On the fourth line, the Hurricanes also have a wide variety of choices.
For the Hurricanes to be decent next season, the forward lines have to be balanced and all four lines have to be accountable defensively. LaRose would be fine on the fourth line; but I can’t imagine Rutherford thinking it was a great plan to pay LaRose $1.9 million to be an agitator, energy guy on the fourth line and a penalty killer.
LaRose would be perfect for a playoff team that needed a high-energy, fourth line agitator who could on occasion play on the third line. He’s a specialist kind of player who does well within a limited role. Once he is expected to go beyond his level of abilities, it gets ugly quickly.
I guess the only way to really judge Chad & for that matter Eric is to trade them and see what they do with their new team’s.
Erik Cole is currently on pace for a career high in goals and a 56 point season. That would be his highest point total since 06/07. I guess either a change of systems or more talent around him has increased his production.
Ray Whitney is currently on pace for 28 goals, which would be his most since 06/07. But he is a little below his assists per game pace while with the Hurricanes. Maybe he prospered from having more goal scoring around him in Carolina.
Matt Cullen is about 0.1 PPG lower than his Carolina career average. Of course he is playing on a team that is much more defensively focused. It appears he may have benefitted from playing in Carolina’s more offensive system (interesting to say that).
It’s just interesting to see how former Canes players are effected by playing on different teams.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
Interestingly LaRose was a -21 last year. In each season before that he was at worst a -2 and usually slightly positive. Regardless, the point that being on a line with Eric this year will pull down ones plus/minus is still valid. Eric’s slide into double digit negative plus/minus also began last year when he was a -10. for his career. Eric is a lifetime -30 with 4 of 7 years in negative numbers.
Looking at shooting percentage I was surprised to see that Chad is making a higher percentage of his shots (8.62% of 116 shots) than Eric (6.29% of 148 shots) this year. Somewhat tongue in cheek, I suggest this stat begs this question. Would Chad’s offensive assist production be significantly better if he played with a center who could finish more consistently.
So much to comment on...
- Staal has never been good on a breakaway. I don’t agree with why coach had him out there other then again a chance for the C to show the way and it failed. Coach is still trying to build back up his confidence which seems to go away as quick as he gets it.
- I am not sure why no one has let Sutter try a breakaway because it does seem like in a game he scores on them all the time.
- I think we all agree we love LaRose and he would be a perfect 4th line player.
- On the draft remember the NHL is a lottery so just because Columbus as the worst record it does not guarantee the #1 pick. Also once we start trading the Canes could get an additional 1-2 first round picks which means if they wanted to package those and move up to #1 I think they could and draft whoever they want if they do not get it on their own.
- This team needs to find a way to play better in the 3rd period. That used to be a strong trait of this team and that has seemed to disappeared this year.
LaRose is the perfect 4th liner… unfortunately 4th liners do not make $1.9 million a year, especially on budget teams.
Money better spent elsewhere. Take all of Stewart, Poni, Kabs, and LaRose’s salaries signed last offseason and you have a legit 1st line winger for Staal.
by JussiJuice on Jan 4, 2012 9:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Faulk & McBain
While everyone is busy trashing Wardo, I want to point out that the Canes are asking a 19 year old to play 20 minutes a night on D. Unless you are Bobby Orr, this is not a good situation.
Faulk got completely turned around by Stankos on the go ahead goal New Year’s eve. A few posters criticized Harrison on that goal, but the reality is he had picked up his man in the slot and no chance to react when Stamkos left Faulk in the dust. Last night was more of the same, just not as blatant. Faulk is a terrific talent, but he needs to be given the opportunity to learn his craft at the AHL level.
McBain I cannot figure. He skates well, has a decent shot and seems to know when to jump in. But he is a liability in our zone because he is not strong enough and not physical. I have seen 5-6 goals this season where he was in position to defend and simply was outmuscled. When 1/3 of your defensive group is weak and your best defender (Pits) is out, the goalie is going to struggle.
Partially disagree
Faulk is a good defensive player with nice skills and poise. But yes, he will make rookie mistakes. He did have his time down in Charlotte, and frankly, he now needs to learn more up here at the NHL. There are no Stamkos’s down in the AHL. You can also go back and look at this game and find there were other occasions where Faulk handled Stamkos quite well. STamkos makes even the best defnders look silly sometimes. Using that as a reason why Faulk doesn;t need to be playing in the NHL right now is being disingenuous. Faulk played porrly to start the year and was sent down. He worked and improved. Since coming back up, he’s eliminated a lot of his mistakes and is continuing to improve. We’re not a playoff team, he’s certainly not costing us games, he’s clearly earned a spot on this team, so why would you ever send him to a lower league to learn when he’s fine learning where he is.
Mc Bain is not as physically strong as Faulk, McBain could actually benefit from AHL time—learn better positioning, work on strength. Let Joslin play…. But McBain would never make it through waivers. McBain also doesn;t have the calm patience and sense for the position of opponents and teammates that Faulk seems to have so he tries too hard to get rid of the puck and turns it over a lot. (Faulk had a pretty play where he took the puck away in the corner from two Isles forwards last night, McBain would have tried to immediately just puch it up the bords and probably turned it over, Faulk kept the puck on his stick, waited the forwards out keeping the close one away with his body, then turned and skated the puck out of the corner before passing nicely to a forward in the center of the zone) McBain doesn’t have that calmness or confidence Faulk (And to be Honest Kaberle as well has) to get the puck and hold it patiently while under pressure—so he chips it along costing us posession more than half the time.
It’s why I’d use him as trade bait to get a Forward we need. He’s a good offenwsive Dman, but we’ve got Faulk, Pitkanen as starters, and Murphy and Dumoulin in the wings. McBain is not good enough defensively, so I’d let him go…
Right, there are no Stamkos-like players in the AHL. Faulk can easily hold his old against AHL caliber players. The fact that the coaching staff are trusting him as being on the top pairing against the other team’s best forwards shows that they are going the NHL development route, which I personally think is better for him. He can play against Keith Aucoin type players, or against Stamkos, Ovechkin, Malkin, etc .
McBain just needs to learn to hit someone and I think his game can improve drastically. I think he is uncomfortable with the physicality and many of his turnovers result from him shying away from checks.
Really young defensemen
I’ve watching Erik Karlsson in Ottawa and remembering what a disaster he was early on, but now seems to be figuring it out and leads all Dmen with points scored. On a bad team.
The opposite path would be Drew Doughty – who was a Team Canada hero and Norris nominee in 2010 and now has less points than McBain. On a supposedly much better team than Ottawa.
Zach Bogosian is another one who came in with very high expectations. Or Tyler Myers? (All of them skipped the AHL – McBain did not).
All these guys early careers cycle between goat and hero. Seems like when we as Carolina fans watch every shift, the bad is more obvious than the good.
Is it just part of the process of becoming an NHL defenseman: learning the league, the risk/reward decisions, and realizing they’re mistakes often enough end up in the back of the net?
How would we as a group compare them to Faulk, McBain? What’s the best way to develop these guys (including those I mentioned above)?
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 4, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
realizing *their mistakes often enough end up in the back of the net?
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 4, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
It bothers me on how many fickle fans we have routing for this team.
I watched the game last night on the MSG feed and was shaking my head afterwards. Definitely one that should have been a WIN in regulation. The daily chatter about LaRose is entertaining and that is why he needs to stay…. There is daily chatter about him… which means he is not invisible on the ice. (There were a few guys last night that were invisible on the ice) The guy plays hard every game and is trying to make a difference. We all know he does not have top line talent and should not be the third shooter on a shootout, but the guy brings it. And… he did score the late goal in the third which gave the ‘Canes the lead! (Typical LaRose goal a result of hustle.)
The Islanders got a fortunate bounce off the boards for one goal. Tavares seemed to be everywhere, Parenteau (first shooter) simply buried the puck. Not too many goalies stop that. Cam played the second shooter poorly. In the course of a season, he doesn’t give up many of those.
Gee and here i hurried to get here
and sadly very little postive vibes/words…hmmm..and here there are 41 games left in the 2011-2012 season…pleanty of time to do something…right ? And yes Faulk is no Bobby Orr But the potential is there more so than with McBain And whether we like it/or approve of it or not,Faulk is making a difference for trhe Canes over all. And like Skinner he is taking it in stride, and is consistant more so than many other players in his posostion. And as far as Ward having an off night …yet again…seeing No one here has NHL/AHL/ECHL or any other like experience…I credit his play as of late as being tired..tired of being left hung out to dry more often than not thus the normal conn-smyth we as fans got spoiled by seeing alot of are quick to point out just how crappy our #1 defencman really is…Should Peter’s been played ? possibly ..but that was yesterday wasn’t it ? today is today and there is still 41 games left to play and the Canes can only play & focus on 1 game at a time can they ? Thanks for letting me have my say…be safe and stay warm…
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
Likely we get to see Peters against Buffalo or in Nashville this weekend. Faulk was beaten for the late game tying goal. The perfect pass that allowed that to happen was from the player being guarded by the leagues worst plus/minus player.
Beaten? Strong choice of words, the off side player cheated down and Faulk didn’t notice (neither did the off forward…). It hapens. Called a learning curve. For most of the game Faulk was just fine.
I have no problem with Faulk’s play. He has earned his 20 minutes a night. I have not seen him get burned twice by the same fire, so if he did make a less than veteran positional choice, he won’t make it again. How many other veteran blueliners on this team can say that?
I have no issue with Faulk either. Haha the Kid is 19.. yes Kid!
He is looking real good actually. Not many 19 year old D in the league. Keep him there and keep him learning. just imagine when he is 25 with 6 years experience!
by RobbinDollar on Jan 4, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
I was just looking – Faulk’s the youngest Dman in the league other than Adam Larsson ( who is 4 months younger), up in New Jersey and who was playing Swedish Elite League, not NCAA last year.
I agree, Faulk is stellar in this context. Very promising on where he’ll be at 25.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 4, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
My apologies to Faulk if it appeared I blamed him for that goal. I took that comment from the N&O morning news story and wanted to counter their read of the play. I meant to direct the blame to the other player refered to in my statement. The pressure on the passer did not seem at all desperate considering the game situation. Faulk deserves consideration for the Calder this year.
You’re good, understand where you were coming from – mostly I was looking for opportunities to find players to praise rather than lament.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 4, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
So when Gleason is traded, Faulk will wear # 6 next year? (#toosoon?)
[just kidding people!]
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 4, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Timmy fans would like to let #6 breathe a year or 2. Faulk was #25 at UMD, so unless Pitkanen goes away, that’s not an option for him. He was# 27 in the WJC last yr.
Aside – I love how I can use the # sign here with out it turning into a hashtag.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 4, 2012 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Sweden won the game with a come back. Sweden is in the finals, so I don’t think Victor Rask is disappointed.
Sure, but Sweden’s success doesn’t interest me nearly as much as Rask’s personal achievements during this tournament.
How Sweden Coaches
Sweden’s coach is formalistic. Rask is given a specific role on his line with Collberg and Forsberg. They are third line forwards and expected to focus on defense and puck possession. Forsberg is likely a top ten pick, if not higher; but he is not playing an offensive role primarily. Collberg likewise is likely a first round pick; but hasn’t been given the offensive green light.
Bowman's puckhandling skills
Tossing this out there: did anyone else notice some amazing puck-handling/ stick skills from Bowman last night, especially along the wall bringing the puck out and finding a pass to set up a chance? My thought was: how did he hold on to the puck there? Wow.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 4, 2012 11:20 AM EST reply actions
To al the naysayers….Some of you are way off base with this +- evaluation. A portion of your plus minus has to do w/ whom you are playing with…Seems to me that Staal has gotten alot more fire under his feet since Muller has arrived. I agree with the folks that say Rosie brings it every nite…His +- is somewhat of the function of his line mates. Staal is not trailing as many rushes since Muller has arrived. Maybe they told him to not hang around the neutral zone and opponents blue line to end his scoring woes, and play some D and all will fall into place. Seems to have helped him out here some recently. Read between the lines. Rosies +-, and for that matter folks that have played w Staal on their line, is definitely not all on them…I think Muller has realized this and has made changes to get Staal moving in the correct direction and iy has started working.
This is especially evident w the D pairings…Nothing against Faulk who is a great young player, but Harrison has been bailing him out all year at the same time teaching him where he needs to be on the ice…They are going to have fails. However, I feel they have been working well together. Alot of you guys have played the game before and should know this. You need to take into account the line mates and who you are playing/paired with when evaluating +-…
What I look for is whether any particular players’ plus/minus compares to other players on the team; and whether their plus/minus is negative on whatever line they are on. I then try to put an isocam on various players to try to correlate what I see with the statistics. Then I look for a pattern over a course of several seasons. Ultimately if the player is the control, that is the person who drives down the plus/minus on the line he is on, it means he is having trouble defensively.
and/or having trouble offensively…. If Staal was on normal pace he’d have 15 goals and about 20 assists…. His “top six” linemates would have an additional 5— 10 points to add to his rating that he didn’t contribute to..
So add +10 to +15 to Staal’s +/— and it’s not near as bad. But he’s been in a slump and the lack of production from others on his line hasn’t helped either.
Two edged sword. His +/— is capturaing less than stellar defensive play (especially early this year, with poor backchecking and more tunrovers leading to rushes) but in his case it’s been more the lack of offense. His defense has gotten back to normal hence his diving down the negative rating hasn’t increased at the same pace, but his scoring is still lagging the fight.
+- can be a misleading stat and it can be a telling stat.
When you are worst in the league in +-, however, it is very telling. If a player is 20, can you seriously say with a straight face that it is not his fault? A problem with Staal’s + is that he isn’t scoring as much, and when he is, it is often powerplay goals, so his +- hasn’t been improving much. LaRose, on the other hand, is on the best scoring pace of his career, so the +’s are there. The minuses are also there.
The thing to keep in mind is that LaRose has played mainly on the first and third lines this season. I will give him some leniency as, compared to Staal, their +- stats are terrible. But now LaRose is playing on the 3rd line and has been, but his +- continues to drop. The third line is supposed to be the defensive shutdown line. He is playing with two great defensive forwards in Bowman and Sutter, who are also scoring at a nice pace. There is NO excuse for his +- to continue to drop, and he is lucky that they don’t give minuses for goals on penalty kills because then he would be nearing triple digits.
Just for information
Since December 1st, our worst +/- forwards are Poni & LaRose at – 6 and Staal at – 5. Our best +/- forwards are Stewart at + 6 & Nodl, Tlusty, Nash at + 1. Our worst +/- defensemen are Joslin at – 5 & Faulk at – 4. Our best +/- defensemen are Pitkanen & Spacek at +1.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
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