NHLPA REJECTS PROPOSED REALIGNMENT
I am happy the NHLPA turned it down ,and like the way the division's are now ,and imo the NHL went overboard with the new realignment when all they had to do is switch either Columbus or the Nashville to the SE division ,and that's pretty much what the NHLPA thought as well not to mention the playoff format.
The NHL is at it's best right now ,and it would have been a tough division the Canes were going to anyway which i personally didn'tt like leaving our SE rivals to start with. The unbalanced divisions were also not a good idea either ,because nobody knows where the Coyotes are going or staying ,maybe Las Vegas/Kansas city/Quebec city/Seattle who knows ,but imo "if" they move from Phoenix Las Vegas has more potential investors ,and revenue potential than all the other city's combined ,and Quebec city has failed before. Kansas city has a new arena ,and would have an in state rival in the Blues ,and are still in the west ,as is Las Vegas ,so the realignment isn't an issue. Seattle has been mentioned ,but that's about all.
The moves by both side are imo "posturing" for the new CBA to gain bargaining chip for each side ,but as the Don Fehr stated before the owners voted that a "radcial" realignment would likely not be approved by the NHLPA with much easier solutions much more viable(moving CLB/NSH to the SE) so it seems the owners are trying to shove the move down the NHLPA's throat ,and imo the NHLPA may give back revenue and lower the cap ceiling and floor ,but they will not give up on the realignment if it involves unbalanced competition and travel.
This situation i doubt will result in another lockout with both side knowing what they lost on the last CBA talks meltdown ,and are now just getting back to where they were in TV rating's ,or slightly better ,so it will probably be more growling than fighting with both giving and taking ,but plenty of drama you can count on that. Let's hear your Canes fans opinion's on this ,and vote.
Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/canes/nhl-realignment-on-hold#comment-249000#storylink=cpy
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Actually there are some things about the new plan that i like, BUT… the bad outweigh the good! from the competitive standpoint: it would be a tough division to play against!! …also the rationale for moving the two Florida teams NORTH…is mind-boggling!
Ultimately I think the league will get what it wants in this whole thing. Realignment will happen and it will be more than just a one team flop into the southeast.
That being said, the players are flexing their muscles. They didn’t get any input into the deal and they want it. The union wants its say and this is a way to tell the league that they are not going to just give in without consultation. I don’t think the players are unified on this issue either way, so it will be an easy compromise with the owners.
In other words the rejection is more about the principle of the thing than the result.
The thing is – the NHL doesn’t NEED NHLPA approval to go through with it.
What they are doing is simply posturing. They create a realignment plan that makes fans and the media giddy and creates some more excitement. And then suddenly, they say the NHLPA denied consent of it and so it won’t happen at all.
If they NHL really wanted the realignment, they would just go through with it. Maybe the realignment was a ploy the whole time to make the NHLPA look like the bad guys before CBA negotiations began. If you remember, the NHL made the NHLPA look evil during the last negotiations, which led to them making a ton of concessions to the NHL. The problem, though, is the the NHL knows if they go through with it, the NHLPA will be pissed, which they definitely don’t want.
So what’s going to happen? Will the NHL “go out of their way” to make the NHLPA happy? Will the NHL “give in” to the “demands” of the NHLPA? I have no idea, but whatever happens, the NHL will come out the victors and the NHLPA will be the enemy.
This no realignment decision means that Winnipeg stays in the SE division next season. There is no simple shift of Columbus or Nashville to the SE. The NHLPA decided to keep this chip on the table for the next contract discussion. When the owners decide to realign they will have to give up something in negotiations to the players to allow that change to occur. They won’t get it for free. The beginning of hardball in their overall negotiations.on the next CBA. It won’t be pretty.
Seems the solution to both sides would be the NHLPA gives the owners back 3-4% of revenue and lowering the cap at the floor and ceiling by $2-3m which has been talked about already ,but i don’t think with 50% of the players in the east will agree to “even up” the travel with the west which would put realignment on hold for a long period of time ,or just not happening unless a much less radical solution can be agreed to ,and having 7/8 teams as far as the NHLPA goes won’t happen ,because of the “unfair” advantage that the 7 team divisions would have over the 8 team divisions ,and even with a "tweaked’ re-seeding format the 7/8 team situation would not improve. I agree on the “bargaining chip” scenario ,but both sides will imo come to an agreement before training camps start ,as both sides have stated “we cannot afford another lockout”
Hellfish, I hope you are right, but fear you are wrong. The no consent decision by Fehr was not done to be useful to the eventual league realignment outcome. The decision was to establish Fehr as a force in league decisions of all types, a warning shot over the bow of the NHL. There is a September deadline to a league/player association agreement. This does not bode well to that agreement. Others have said the league can’t afford another lost season but as far as I can find not Fehr.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384483
TSN has learned that any hope to salvage the NHL’s proposed realignment plan for next season is dead, which will leave the current conference and playoff format intact next year.
The NHL now has 60 days to file a grievance, an action that would seek declaration that the NHLPA withheld their consent unreasonably in violation of the CBA.
As well, the league may seek damages on behalf of the teams whose business will be most impacted next year. The franchises that appear to be most affected would be Detroit, Columbus, Minnesota, Florida and Winnipeg.
This grievance and the issues identified within would require a decision from an arbitrator before collective bargaining.
The league’s planned realignment from six divisions to four conferences for next season had been approved by the board of governors in December pending input from the NHL Players’ Association.
But the league’s plan was stalled Friday after the union opposed the changes. Instead, the NHL will maintain its current alignment and playoff format for the 2012-13 season.
“Players’ questions about travel and concerns about the playoff format have not been sufficiently addressed. As such, we are not able to provide our consent to the proposal at this time,” union head Donald Fehr said in a statement Friday.
“We continue to be ready and willing to have further discussions should the league be willing to do so.”
The plan was to have two conferences with seven teams all based in the Eastern time zone: New Jersey, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, New York Rangers, New York Islanders, Washington and Carolina in one and Boston, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo, Florida and Tampa Bay in the other.
The third conference consisted of eight teams in the Eastern and Central time zones: Detroit, Columbus, Nashville, St. Louis, Chicago, Minnesota, Dallas and Winnipeg.
The fourth conference had eight teams in the Mountain and Pacific time zones: Los Angeles, Anaheim, Phoenix, San Jose, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and Colorado.
Players reacted warmly to the changes in December, but some expressed concern with the increased travel during the regular season.
The uneven conferences, which featured two made up of eight teams and seven teams in the other two, were also contested since the number of teams qualifying for the playoffs would have been four in each conference.
The lost plan also sets an uneasy tone to the start of labour talks, which were expected to begin after the all-star weekend later this month but are essentially underway now.
The collective bargaining agreement is set to expire Sept. 15.
— With files from The Canadian Press and Associated Press.
Well with 3 major issues with the players among themselves being:
1.The west having 2 8 team divisions
2.the eastern teams having to travel much more
3.the playoff format
The owner proposed realignment in it’s current form can only offer to tweak the current playoff format to a conference re-seeding format ,but from the western conference players standpoint 8 teams won’t work ,and the eastern conference players standpoint the "idea"of playing every team in the west each year sure ain’t gonna work either ,so imo the owners just can’t work around all 3 issues ,and make it work ,and will have to simplify the realignment ,espaecially if they want revenue ,and a cap reduction at both ends which imo is completely reasonable ,especially if the CBA issues go before an independent arbitrator which will be a hard sell for the owners side of it.
The larger and more incredible issue is this “consent” thing or maybe a real future CBA requirement that the NHL HAS TO get approval every time ANY change occurred in conference/division team assignments. Theoretically that will mean the union will have to sign off on the Jets going somewhere west or the team who replaces them going somewhere east. If there is a union “agreement” requirement before the NHL can make these kind of changes then I don’t see any changes being made to the current structure. The heartburn and headaches just may not be worth it to the NHL.
However, this may be such a strong issue with the NHL that they put it at the top of their CBA negotiating to do list to get the union to agree that the NHL has the sole right to make these changes as long as the union gets something in return that the NHL is willing to give up. Might not fly but it may be that important.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 9, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Fehr's most recent work stoppage comment
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/12/28/20-questions-fehr-drawn-to-nhl-players/
17. Are we in any danger of another labour stoppage?
DF All I can say is, I would certainly hope not. In the last negotiation, there obviously was a long stoppage at the owners’ instigation. Both long stoppages in hockey have been lockouts, the players haven’t had any extended strikes. The owners insisted upon and received enormous concessions from the players, so one would hope that those days are days that people can write about in the history books, and we don’t have to look at them going forward. Having said that, I’ve been doing this too long and in too many different places to make predictions.
There will be an epic battle of egos when Bettman and Fehr really get at this. Buckle up.
When the news first broke that the realignment was off, my first thought was that Fehr was going to play hardball and this was the NHLPA taking an early shot before CBA negotiations. After thinking about it further, there is no reason for the PA to give their consent on this deal. The NHLPA had zero input. They requested sample schedules so they could make an educated decision on the travel and the league didn’t give them anything. Can’t say I would have consented to this deal either. Seems more like the NHL just pushing it down the players throat without them being allowed to make an educated decision.
I still worry a little with Fehr in charge of NHLPA but I don’t blame them one bit for not giving their consent on this. One thing is for sure – Fehr won’t let the NHLPA be bullied around by the owners this time around.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
Disagree. This is both Fehr playing hardball and establishing an antagonistic tone to the CBA negotiations which now at least unofficially are underway. It was within the scope of the NHLPA to not consent to the change since it effected work conditions, but the previous 5 weeks where the NHL and NHLPA had to exchange information regarding were a prelude to a very contentious summer of negotiations. The interesting statement about the players disliking the uneven playoff format was interesting since there were easy fixes and compromises to that problem. There certainly was no broad undercurrent of player dissatisfaction upon the announcement of the realignment plan. Given the league is North American in scope travel will be a hardship at times, hardest for the more remote teams. Interestingly the NHLPA even worried about the number of times teams would be subjected to border crossings under the new alignment.
Any new alignment plan will thrill some players, owners and fans and vex others. Had the NHLPA told the owners what they would consent to their objection could have been constructive. But their simple no said volumes more. Game on.
I don’t know, it just seems to me that this was partly a PR move. The NHL knew the fans and most of the media wanted the new format and by coming out and pretty much putting all the blame on the NHLPA – it makes the PA seem like the bad guys. It sounds like the PA was willing to consent or at least negotiate if they could see some sample scheduling and discuss the uneven playoff format. I think the PA’s requests were very reasonable and that if the NHL wanted this realignment so bad, they could have come back and given the PA something. Seems to me the NHL wanted no part of working anything out, didn’t want to give any information the PA requested and wanted them to just accept whatever they came up with.
I will agree a lot of this is just posturing for the upcoming CBA negotiations but I look at this more as Fehr letting Bettman know he isn’t just going to bully the PA around this time.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
All public statements by both parties are public relation moves. For me both Bettman and Fehr are characters that are genuinely unlikeable. Bettman has the owners acting together. Fehr, unlike the past NHLPA leaders, has focused on building a sense of union solidarity with the players for the last 2 years. They have no common grounds. They haven’t even worked together on player safety. (Strangely the owners have had to take this on unilateraly.)
The uncertainty created is stifling player trades and player contract extensions. Both of which are not good for Canes fans psyches.
I agree with the GM’s being VERY cautious about signing UFA’s or extending contracts just in case the cap floor and ceiling will likely shrink about $2-3m ,,and if that were the case it could increase the UFA pool by 2-3x of available players as there are 7 teams that are over now ,and another 6 teams that are within the $2-3m threshold ,“if” the cap drops ,and 6 of the 7 teams that are over the cap are in the east which would shake up the standings in the east next year for sure.
The teams that are over now would be in cap prison ,and could turn the east best teams into so-so teams in a hurry. Philly would come to mind as they are $6.4m over now ,if they were forced to clear $8-9m there roster would be turned upside down with Bryz/Briere/Pronger/Timonen making up around $23.5m! in just 4 players with Vorachek and Carle sure to get big raises next year ,and more than likely the two of them alone would eat up $8-9m per year ,and imo Philly either wins a cup this year ,or they will be in a “retooling” mode for a few years at least.
Is arbitration even an option before a strike/lockout occurs? Mediation maybe but that won’t occur until the September deadline expires. More likely a lawsuit from the NHLPA charging the owners with collusion in setting salaries. But my cup is half empty on this one. Reasonable negotiating partners get things done. Does either side have one of those?
Well both the NFL/NBA used arbitration to settle there CBA’s which were alot more volatile than the NHL’s ,as an arbitrator will look at both sides in the most laymen terms possible ,as to reach a settlement ,so in theory if the owners want revenue + a lower cap ,and floor the players will likely receive a more simple realignment and playoff format with maybe 4 teams changing conference/divisions ,but that’s just a reasonable guess.
The NHL/NHLPA can begin negotiation with mediation ,if both sides agree to speed up the process ,or how to see where both sides stand without getting into a pissing contest right of the bat ,but i’m guessing as soon as each side knows how far off /close they may be to a settlement which is who knows as of now…However i would doubt they would wait that late ,because of the TV contract ,and scheduling problems which have to be ironed out asap just to start the season with the revenue split “if” both sides being close enough to a figure to work with without holding up the start of the preseason ,or training camps. The NHL’s season ending mid-june doesn’t give either side much rope for wrangling ,so mediation/arbitration will be sooner than later.
PUCK DADDY ON REALIGNMENT
Like many fans, I was stoked when the NHL announced radical realignment for the 2012-13 season.
More reasonable travel! Guaranteed visits from very team to every city! Divisional playoffs! Huzzah!
But they didn’t tell us what the playoffs would look like, exactly. And the more I weighed the bloody excess of divisional playoffs against the current model, which has consistently provided thrilling playoff races and playoff series without considerable inequity, I started to have buyer’s remorse.
I don’t think I was alone. As was noted on Monday’s “Marek Vs. Wyshynski”, an unnamed team executive inferred to my radio partner that the NHL had second thoughts about realignment. Maybe it was teams recalculating their travel or wondering if the path to playoff revenue just became more arduous.
To that end, the question becomes maddening:
When have you ever seen the NHL back away from a fight with the NHLPA?
When the NHLPA declined to offer consent, the NHL decided not to pursue realignment for the 2012-13 season.
NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly was on Hockey Unfiltered with Todd Lewis last weekend, and said: “Our CBA specifically allows us with the right to make decisions like that, gives union a chance to deny consent in a reasonable way.”
The remedy for that denial is arbitration, to Daly said: “We’ve not made a final decision whether we will bring in arbitration.”
But it didn’t even need to come to this point, according to Daly, who said:
“We could have unilaterally implemented this. And probably could have done so in a way that would have insulated it for next year because I’m not sure they could have gotten an arbitration award in time to reverse our schedule. But we chose not to do that, and one of the reasons we chose not to do that is because we don’t want to be overly confrontational with the players association.”
Once more, with feeling: The NHL that was willing to cancel a season during collective bargaining now won’t realign its teams out of concern for the NHLPA’s feelings.
The NHL that battled the NHLPA over the Ilya Kovalchuk contract — the kind of long-term deal that could have been settled in the next CBA — was willing to pull a punch here. The NHL that’s still in the quagmire in Glendale gave up realignment.
Does that seem like the NHL you know and fear?
Look, there’s no question both sides are using this moment as the opening salvo/bear poking for the next CBA negotiation. It’s very political. But that doesn’t mean it’s also unpractical.
Stu Hackel of Sports Illustrated has a dizzying collection of player quotes about the spiked realignment plan, including their concerns about travel and the playoffs. Minnesota Wild player rep Matt Cullen’s words resonated:
"There’s going to be realignment. I think it’s just a matter of trying to do it right instead of rushing through it. There’s a lot of information we don’t have, and the league is still learning it, too. To be honest, I don’t think it’s a big scrap. It just a matter of needing more time.
“The travel, from the limited stuff we got, could be potentially worse for some western teams, including Winnipeg,” Cullen added. “Without knowing, and it’s late in the game, it’s obviously hard to come up with a full schedule on a month’s notice. Without knowing what that looked like, it’s hard to consent or not consent when the potential is there for worse travel.”
The earliest the NHL could have given a schedule to the teams and players was May. That’s far too late to really know what the repercussions of this new format were, in the time frame the NHLPA was given for approval.
Is there really any reason to make this a process of several months rather than a couple of years? To wait for two additional expansion teams to balance out the conferences? To wait to see what time zone the Phoenix Coyotes will play in next season? To simply flip the Winnipeg Jets for the Columbus Blue Jackets for now with a vow to the Red Wings, Stars, Predators and Wild that their time zone dilemmas will be dealt with down the line?
Why did we need radical realignment for next season?
The cynic in me says this: Because the NHL anticipated that the NHLPA would bargain for a formal voice in the process, as it previously expressed a desire to have more input on team relocations and expansion, it tried to jam it through now.
But again, that’s the cynic in me.
I’m still captivated by divisional play. I still want to see Wings and Jackets and Predators and Stars and Wild and Avalanche fans get more amenable travel schedules and TV time. I’m a little iffy on the change in playoff format.
Maybe you’re with me, maybe not. But is there anything wrong with taking a step back and making sure we aren’t creating additional problems with this solution?
Meanwhile: Do you really believe there’s nothing more to Gary Bettman avoiding a fight with the NHLPA?..And my 2 cents for realignment.
The realignment imo which would make the most sense for travel and closest to time zone proximity ,and less radical changes would be CBJ to the SE(sorry NSH/Det)/ Dallas to the central to replace CBJ/ The AV’s to the Pacific to replace Dallas ,and Denver is closer to the Pacific division teams anyway/ WPG to the NW to replace the AV’s which only 1 US team would be(MIN) crossing the border often ,and are close to WPG as rivals. travel in the west isn’t easy no matter how you draw it up ,but at least the division’s are even with less travel ,and timezone/border crossing are less ,and the playoff format in it’s current form is the best as it can get. So everybody’s happy?…Riiiight!



















