Carolina Falls Again On The Road: Predators 5, Hurricanes 2
by Bob Wage on Jan 8, 2012 6:00 AM EST
in Carolina Hurricanes Game Recaps
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PrintThe Nashville Predators jumped out to a 4-0 lead and never looked back on Saturday night as they defeated the Carolina Hurricanes, 5-2.
Shea Weber, Craig Smith, and Ryan Ellis each scored a goal for the home team while Patric Hornqvist almost had a hat trick. Hornqvist had a possible third goal of the night taken off the board because it was determined that he kicked the puck in the net.
The Hurricanes got two goals from Jay Harrison in the third period to make things look respectable. (The second goal was originally given to Chad LaRose, but was later awarded to Harrison. It was apparently decided that LaRose did not tip in Harrison's shot from the point.)
The Preds outshot the Hurricanes 36 to 29.
The Canes will next take on the Philadelphia Flyers at home on Tuesday night.
Game Notes:
- There were only nine hits for each team in this contest. Bryan Allen had a team high three.
- The FS Carolinas television focus was on him all night and Jay Harrison made the most of it. The defenseman led the team with six shots on goal, four blocked shots, and had over 22 minutes of time on the ice.
- Eric Staal had an assist giving him eight points in the last four games. He also won 55% of his faceoffs.
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Tim Brent won 71% of his faceoffs, (10 of 14).
- for post game interviews, check out Canes PR.com.
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yes Bob
that is and was the extent of it ..short and bitter sweet like baking chocolate is…but life goes on and here the season is now over half way done too !! And sadly if JR waits until the trade deadline the canes may ..again may..just get to 500 …it’s a do-able thing..but sadly it should have never gotten this as the cancer of Mo hockey has been cut out,but the darn “chemo” treatments to assist in recovery are even worse than the tumor was…is it too soon to say .“well next season”….or would it be in bad taste ?
9/11/01 - Never Forget !!
Long Live #63 The Condor
Go Canes & Checkers !!!
well if Brandon Sutter would have finished that wrap around chance, that might have sparked some more energy from the team. Alas, I think the goal post stopped 3 great chances by our team. Harrison hit one and Jokinen hit one short handed.
I blame the goal posts.
IT WASN'T ALL MO; IT IS A TEAM IN NEED OF A REBUILD
Last night was predictable, as sittler27 noted, the moment the Hurricanes team loaded into the charter plane with Bowman (and I’d say Dalpe) not on the flight. The version of the Hurricanes that departed for Nashville, without Skinner and Pitkanen, can’t get the job done as a playoff team. Nashville out hit, out hustled, and out thought the Hurricanes.
LaRose learns nothing from season to season as far as knowing how to avoid handing a game to the opposition via boneheaded penalties. Dwyer is too small and lacks the strength to battle in the top nine against Nashville. Over all the team doesn’t have enough players whose first instincts include the desire to use the body rather than trying to finesse on defense.
As far as I am concerned, it is hard to watch this team play some games. The rebuild cannot begin soon enough. Whatever this team is missing in the locker room the product on the ice often is highly, highly disappointing.
You honestly think that if we had either Bowman and Dalpe were in the lineup last night that it would have made that much of a difference? That seems to be a little dramatic, however, I will agreee that we need some new players to go along with the new coach.
by hotchipsnsalsa on Jan 8, 2012 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
At Least Having a Chance to Win
I honestly believe that if either Dalpe or Bowman were in the top nine, and if LaRose were not, the Hurricanes would have had at least a viable chance of winning. What makes a difference for the Hurricanes is not self-destructing and forcing the other team to beat them rather than the Hurricanes crushing themselves. LaRose has no hockey sense to speak of; and the odds of him making a boneheaded play are ovewhelming. The only question is whether the particular boneheaded play will only damage the team’s chances rather than effectively ending the game.
On the other hand, both Dalpe and Bowman have excellent basic hockey sense. They are still young and over-eager at times; but their brains are engaged and they have good hockey instincts. They are also dramatically more gifted as hockey players than either LaRose or Dwyer. Dwyer has great hockey sense and is very fast and agile. His issue is that he lacks the nuanced hands of a scorer; and lacks the ideal strength of a bottom six player. On balance, however, Dwyer is much more suited for a bottom six role than LaRose because LaRose is a game killer. He may make some outstanding plays; and he may hustle like the Tasmanian Devil; but in the end, all to often he makes the key mental mistake that sinks the team. Why take that risk.
If either Dalpe or Bowman were playing, even if the Hurricanes lost, they would be getting much needed on ice time against a big, hard-nosed team. They would be better for the experience; and the coaches would be able to assess where Dalpe and Bowman are in their development as NHL players. This season is a wasteland as far as the playoffs. Using the game to confirm that LaRose lacks hockey sense and that Dwyer is best suited for the fourth line does nothing to advance the team that will play in 2012-2013.
Yea, I would agree, however, your ire should be against the coaches and management not the players themselves. I had no problem with Mo and what he was doing, but Muller is making the same decisions as to who is playing and some of those decisions are the same as Mo’s its just under a different system. Although I do think under Muller he has a better niche to take this team into the future than Mo. I understand you want LaRose on the 4th line, but he is one of leading goal scorers so you can’t fault him for that and he is going to make mistakes everyone does. Everybody thats a fan wants this team to succeed, but realistically we just don’t have the overall talent and until some trades happen or decisions are made to waive players, which is not going to happen, then we are going to have to live with the decisions that were made to start the season as to which players are going to be part of the big club.
by hotchipsnsalsa on Jan 8, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
To be clear, I really do understand that every player on the Hurricanes goes on the lines and on the ice when a coach tells him to go. The players don’t make substitutions. The players don’t take a vote on which players stay up and which players go to Charlotte. LaRose plays when and where he is told to play. Without question, he gives 150% every shift. He is by all accounts a wonderful teammate. He loves the organization and the Caniacs. You can’t ask LaRose to give more, although I do think he can demand of himself that he use hockey I.Q. In that regard, he is letting himself down, the team down, and the organization down. It’s not too much to ask for a player with LaRose’s experience that he use that experience and learn from his mistakes.
I am sorry AD but I just cannot see why you are so negatively fixated with LaRose. Your many posts will inevitable have some paragraph or two devoted to another LaRose bashing. I just cannot see the fairness in that approach.
You already say he is giving 150% (how much more can you ask?)
You acknowledge you want him to reduce his mistakes (I think he does but everyone makes mistakes all the time, many more damaging than LaRose mistakes)
You ask that he uses his hockey IQ and imply he is not. (He is using his hockey IQ to yield the current pace of a career high year in a number of categories, goals, points, hits just to name several)
Finally you say that because he is not using his hockey IQ he is letting himself down, the team down and the organization. Wow, what an indictment on someone who you agree is given 150% and who is a role player, not one of the franchise players on this team and who is currently having a career year on a bad team.
I just don’t buy your Larose arguments anymore…….you have singled out Chad Larose for vehement condemnation and because of the body of your many condemnations it could imply he is the real demon of all Canes woes (my words not yours).
AD…..look at each of the many veterans on this team and ask yourself…….are they giving all (150%) they can give in the same relative way as Chad. Some of these other veterans have significantly more skill level than Chad but are using less than 100% of it. Those are the ones who should be singled out and deserve more of your attention than Chad.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 8, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see it so much as a negative fixation per se but rather to hilight that the coaches/management don’t give the team the best shot to win when they overslot LaRose. And it puts him a tough spot. He gives it all he has but he is over matched and hence his talent shortcomings are magnified.
I like the effort and energy Chad brings. I see him as the prototypical 4th liner who can also be key on the PK . But as you move him up the lines does he make anyone of his linemates better? Sutter was playing some of his best hockey when he had Bowman on one side and we could tolerate LaRose on the other. He brought speed, some physical play and Bowman and Sutter’s skills created more time and space for him. Last night with Dwyer and LaRose flanking Sutter, I thought it really brought Brandon’s game down. His wingers were losing the battles along the boards. The lack of respect for both allowed the Preds to focus more on Sutter. Almost all of Sutters chances were the result of individual efforts. And when he set up Chad and Pat…. nothing.
So that leads us to frustration… not really with either LaRose or Dwyer as much as management and the coaching decisions as to the lineup. Especially against a team that is known for its grinding style. What did we expect to happen last night. The result was predictable.
Then hockey sense has left Eric Staal this year. He isn’t even seeing the puck out there or looking for passes. He also looks lost in front of the net. It is time to get over our fascination of Eric this year. He’s gone south. It’s ugly. It’s Rod Brind’Amour ugly.
Harrumph
what part of 8 points in 4 games do you not understand?
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Jan 9, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Then place the blame squarely on where it belongs………..
As I implied, the negative attention on Larose as a player who is placed in these circumstances and who is giving the best he can give is way overboard in my opinion.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 8, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I would like to add to your post ,as by sending Bowman down ,and not being on Sutter’s line made that line with Dwyer on it basically ineffective ,and was when Bowman was one of the best ,if not the best ,and was even more a cost to the PP ,and Dwyer’s PK skills sure didn’t help as the Preds scored 4 PP goals ,and imo Dwyer rushed himself back ,because Bowman was a threat to his spot on the team ,also Tlusty was one of the “passengers” last night as well.
The young players being called up and getting major TOI MAKES borderline veteran players like Dwyer and Tlusty ,or even Poni play harder which makes the whole team play better ,but as we saw last night Dwyer/Tlusty/Poni were glad Bowman was gone ,and with a glaring display of taking a shift of or two vs a grinding physical team well was lets just say awfully apparent ,also Rosey is like Nic Wallin not only does he take bad penalty’s at bad times ,but when he does the other team seems to score every time which magnify’s the mistake even more ,and him playing vs bigger more skilled players makes it worse.
The teams we are playing look at the game tapes ,and can figure out fast that the Sutter line with Bowman was a line that they had to be very careful with ,as they had to not give them as much ice or the puck would be in the net…with Dwyer totally different Nashville didn’t have to respect his shot/ forecheck or passing skills…BIG difference ,and you could tell by Sutter’s body language his line had been shipwrecked ,with the “passengers” breathing a sigh of relief there TOI was back to normal ,and it showed in spades…That’s what putting “passengers” on waivers is for one way contract ,or not!..Ask Nodl about that ,but it seems with this team that a one way contract guarantees you a spot on the team ,and keeps better talent in Charlotte.
Other than Staal, which other forwards do you rate as consistently under-achieving? Staal is having a disastrous year over all; but has shown improvement. For example, over the course of the last five games he has nine points. I blame the coaches and management for misusing LaRose. I blame LaRose for being a knucklehead on the ice far too often.
I would throw in Jokinen as a player I’ve been underwhelmed with this year. He’s been shuffled around so much this year so that may have something to do with it but he’s been dissapointing in my opinion.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
AD…….Your answer certainly makes it clear to me that you feel your comments and approach concerning Chad are appropriate. I respect that…..if that is what you are saying without saying it. However, this will be the end of my comments directed at you about how I feel on any future comments you make about Chad. Like I said, I only beat that dead horse once. However, I will continue to be a reader and commenter here and if you do continue with your Larose bashing there will be at least one silent reader in complete disagreement unless Chad slips below his potential. I will also hold him accountable for that when it happens.
In answer to your question, which does have a rather obvious answer…….
Veterans are veterans……why limit this to just forwards?
Staal, Jussi, Poni, Gleason, Ward, Dwyer, and Boucher have all under-performed based on their potentials this season for one reason or another in the aggregate. To clarify, we both agree Chad is playing beyond his potential. Bad teams do produce bad individual results sometimes.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 8, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I generally agree and I heard a brief comment on FSC last night that Bowman was also up with the big club on an emergency call-up. I don’t have anything more on that or what that meant when injured players come back or might come back soon. Sending Bowman down just might have been necessary because of this and unavoidable. Someone with a little more knowledge about this might help me out here.
There is an overwhelming agreement that this version of the Canes just does not have the skill to compete. Occasionally they will exceed their skill levels and gel as a team and win or at least provide a very entertaining competitive atmosphere in defeat. However, I do expect more of the same from last night. Don’t like it but it is the reality and cannot be changed with words only actions. I am perfectly OK with beating a dead horse once…….but if I beat it constantly that makes me feel very small.
JR and the Canes, it appears, will be the “most active” trader in the coming several weeks. Although that has not yet been publicly acknowledge by JR, the first sign will be “when the first veteran is traded”. If JR followed some of the recommendations here he would rush to judgement on some of these early trade offers. I would hope he takes his time and judge each trade offer against what he would want ideally. I am restless when I see results last night but know I will see more until the problems are corrected. Realistically, that will have to take place in stages until the final free agent is sign. I am going to be a harsh judge of JR during this process but I think so will the Canes when all is said and done.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 8, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Occasionally they will exceed their skill levels and gel as a team and win or at least provide a very entertaining competitive atmosphere
Exactly, when each individual plays together and clicks this team will win like they did against Buffalo, but when one player doesn’t then there are going to be struggles. There is just not enough talent to overcome when everyone is not playing as one. And its difficult to expect a team and each individual to play as one every game its just not going to happen.
by hotchipsnsalsa on Jan 8, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Even when the injured player comes back?…..sort of a bumper car or tag team thing? I actually don’t know if the team has the flexibility to keep a emergency call up on the big club even after the player who that were replacing comes back………
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 8, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
But when I heard Skinner was with the team in Nashville it just seemed Bowman was sent down in anticipation of Skinner playing very soon……..was not sure how those rules applied in this case.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 8, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
He is with the team so he can skate with them and start getting back to regular routine…. which includes flying. Many post concussion victims report that getting back to flying is one of the toughest on the recovery trail.
Makes sense………
OK the direct question…….do the Canes have to return the player called up on emergency basis when the player who was actually injured come back? Or the organization can send anyone back who is on a 2-way when the injured player comes back……..
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 8, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
You have to send the personal on the emergency call-up back. You can call them back up afterwards on a normal basis immediately afterward though.
I’m not sure why Bowman was sent back when Skinner is not back and I want to know why. The only reasoning I can find is that they wanted to rush Dwyer back into the line-up and they didn’t want to pay Bowman’s salary over Sutter’s.
Perhaps I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that if you were on emergency call-up you had to be the first person to return to the AHL when a player of the same position came back from injury. In other words, since we had enough healthy forwards to field a team, Bowman had to return even though it wasn’t Skinner that was returning to the lineup.
Someone please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. I am definitely searching (read-grasping at straws) for a reason that Bowman was sent back down despite all of the good things he was doing.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
That may be correct, but then, what was the motive of, one, rushing Dwyer back into the line-up when he was clearly not ready at the expense of Bowman, and two, keeping Brent Sutter up instead of Bowman?
For two, if my line of thinking is right (and again I am not entirely sure it is-maybe Carolyn or Cory or Brian could confirm for me), then since Bowman was the emergency recall, he had to go back as soon as someone who’d be injured became healthy. Brett could (and had to) stay because he wasn’t an emergency recall.
Now, if I’m wrong and Bowman only had to be returned if/when Skinner came back and Brett could have been returned first, then I’m really at a loss.
For one, I honestly have no idea and since I’m not privy to the coaches’ decision making process, I can’t really speculate other than saying they must have felt Dwyer was ready.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
If Sutter were returned, then there we wouldn’t have enough players for the roster, and so Bowman would still be considered here acceptably under the emergency recall. Unless there is part of the rule that says that emergency recalled players must be sent down prior to other recalls, which may be the case. But then, why wouldn’t they send down Bowman and call him back up?
Unless there is part of the rule that says that emergency recalled players must be sent down prior to other recalls, which may be the case.
That’s exactly what I’ve been thinking. For some reason, it’s what I remember reading/hearing when it comes to emergency recalls.
But then, why wouldn’t they send down Bowman and call him back up?
Your guess is as good as mine. Not sure if waivers is an issue (it’s early and my mind is foggy). I understand Muller wanting to get a longer look at Sutter, but don’t think it should have come at the expense of someone contributing the way Bowman has.
"What Carolina really has going for them is Brandon Sutter. When that kid first showed up, he looked like a skinny little thing that wouldn’t last two weeks. But he’s turned into a real star."
The reason I originally asked this question was because I was never clear whether the Canes management HAD TO send Bowman down. The answer to that question would repudiate some of these condemnations of Canes management for this action. I honestly did not know. There are varying degrees of opinion. I still don’t really.
Does anybody know the real answer here?
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 9, 2012 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
My recollection from past discussions is that a player called up on emergency recall must be sent back down, which can be a paper transaction, and then may be immediately recalled. There is no waiting period for recall; but the roster rules do apply. It would mean the Hurricanes would have had to pay Bowman and Dalpe at the NHL pay scale; and that there would be two healthy scratches who were being paid if both were retained, or one if only one were retained.
So what you are saying is that the NHL has a rule that required Bowman to be sent down…..on paper. But they could have brought him back up immediately……on paper. In effect, he could have sat in his apartment and would have transitioned from emergency call up to just a regular call up without having to physically go to Charlotte.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 9, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
I found the rules finally….turns out they were inside the CBA. I have added it as a fan post on the right because it was too long for a comment here. It clearly said this could happen…..so as best as I can determine the long and short of this is the Canes did not have to return Bowman.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 9, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
doug, your comment
" Over all the team doesn’t have enough players whose first instincts include the desire to use the body rather than trying to finesse on defense."
I think you have hit on the crux of what is keeping this current cast of players from being more successful against the upper tier teams in the league. They don’t have enough physicality either on offense and especially on defense. Too much finesse and not enough hard charging aggressiveness. I don’t think it’s a case of being outsized, it’s a mental thing.
One other thing, I think other teams (upper echelon) have established lines that have played together for a long time (on the same line and on the same team) and these players know where each other will be on the ice and even have set plays amongst themselves. We don’t have this chemistry.
by FoxtrotSierra on Jan 8, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Has any team ever won a hockey game when the opponent was 4 for 5 on the PP? Unless Bowman and Dalpe are the answer to our PK problems this game was lost on special team play and Renne’s goal tending. Add in the B2B and the absence of Skinner and Pits this was pretty much a scheduled loss. There is no point in getting your panties in a wad over this one.
GILBERT BRULE
Was place on re-entry waivers by the Oilers ,could the Canes use him?..he’s only 24 and Edmonton was high on him at one time ,also a center.
PASS, we don’t need anymore 3rd/4th liners; we’re already loaded in that area.
Of course this might be a JR reclaimation project. I really have no idea with this team.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
And in his 198 other NHL games, he has scored 21g and 23a. Doesn’t really sound like more than a bottom 6er to me.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
Bowman, Dalpe. etc.
Having Bowman or Dalpe probably wouldn’t have mattered much last night. All the Canes are doing by calling Checkers up at this point in a season like the Canes are having, is adding AHL players to a team that quite a few AHL teams could beat on any given night! Don’t get me wrong, the Canes ARE my NHL team and I follow them and pull for them to win , and long to see them succeed, but without serious upgrades to the current roster, I don’t see them turning this thing around this season. I know that the Checkers are the Canes top affiliate and the contracted players are theirs to use as they see fit, and some of the guys have NHL potential, but playing them with a team in such disarray could potentially do more harm than good in their development and they definitely won’t change the Canes fortunes this year! Maybe I’m a bit selfish on this subject since I’m a die hard Checkers fan that doesn’t want to see my team’s season get derailed by the parent team sending players back and forth in an attempt to change their fortunes that has accomplished no more than grasping at straws by doing so.
This Season is Toast
Obviously, any team that is 27th in the NHL over all; 27th on the penalty kill, 29th in goals against, 27th in shots against; 27th in plus/minus is greatly in need of a talent upgrade. Cam Ward is 75th, the worst in the NHL, in goals against with 110 goals that got past him. Ward is 61st out of 75 in goals against with an average goals against of 3.19. The company he is keeping in that regard is disheartening. Ward is 56th out of 75 with a save percentage of .898. In short, Cam Ward’s season is as disastrous as the season as a whole has been. Corvo is the only defenseman who left the team. Cole is the only forward who left.
Given the fact the playoff chase is over, the reason for bringing up the Checkers is to give the players NHL experience and to assess their talent. The Hurricanes of 2011-2012 flopped. In order to add talent, the Hurricanes organization needs to know what it has and what its prospects can do. Muller needs to see which of the Hurricanes prospects fit his desired style of play and which ones he can coach. Playing in the NHL at this point is not going to hurt the development of Dalpe, Bowman, Boychuk, and Nash. If anything it will help them start with a clean slate with Muller and MacLean as their coaches. In my view it is long past time to give the top prospects their time to prove they are better than some of the players on the roster.
I’ve read Sittler27’s rant against the organiZation re: not playing youngsters, but I’m wondering if they are auditioning tradeable talent vs. hiding the good youngsters at this point? I cannot figure any other reason to play dwyer and larose over bowman and dwyer.
I've discovered who that woman was having the heart attack when Staal scored: The Love Boat's Lauren Tewes!
by Capt. Stinky on Jan 8, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve been chuckling at the posts in this column for a few years now and the one thing that I have noticed is there are some fans that will not be satisfied not matter what.
Last year there was daily bashing of Cole… how he can’t finish!…. now we miss him.
Everyone wants to see the kids play and get experience, but they are trashed for making mistakes! (See McBain bashing…. and yes, he is still a youngster learning!)
I read about how the team needs to hustle, yet LaRose is roasted here daily. Apparently, some people really don’t “get” hockey.
Hey… thanks for the laughs.
Where have you seen me bash the kids? Never.That goes for many of the regular posters on this blog as well. Nor did many regularly make negative comments on Cole. They agreed we will miss his skills. But also were of the opinion that Montreal was taking a risk with the length and amount of the contract.. I’d say that was an astute hockey observation and let’s review that again in year three and four of his time with Montreal. And the negative comments on LaRose are generally not about his hustle but about his skills.
But good thing you are the only one here that “gets” hockey.
Yes, tons of folks bashed Cole for taking that contract and “going for the money” by leaving for Montreal, and not taking a hometown discount. (Isn’t that like kissing your sister??) Money well spent by Montreal, in my opinion. Look how Staal has stalled. Not sure if the two are related or if even Erik could get Eric out of this funk.
I’m guilty for bashing McBain. I don’t wholeheartedly agree that he’s too young be criticized, because he had a less than expected year last season. I was hoping he’d have improved. Not so much.
Harrumph
You used to almost never see defenceman make the jump straight from Juniors to the NHL, let alone college where they play a 40 game schedule. Now you are seeing it more often and it seems that all of the “phenoms” go through some ups and downs.
This is really Jamie’s second full season. He is only 23. He started this year with some injury issues and has been a slow starter his entire career. I think it is too soon to believe he has peaked. I think you may see some improvement the 2nd half of the season.
Along those lines I have also noticed some setbacks in Faulk’s game. He is 19 and this is as much hockey as he has ever played. He may go through some dog days and need some time off to recharge. You also have to expect him to make some mistakes. I do believe that we see one and maybe two of our veteran D traded before the deadline. That will mean the kids will get plenty of ice time. No doubt we will see some good and bad as they develop. Problem with being young and on D is that your mistake often find themselves in the back of the net.
Problem with being young and on D is that your mistake often find themselves in the back of the net.
When you’re a veteran, too. Ask Gleason or Pits.
Yeah, I’m no fan of Faulk getting top billing and minutes. He’s done as well as can be expected up to this point. I’m pleased w/ his play. Better than Jamie has ever played. He’s outplaying Gleason, IMHO.
Question: how does one go from “slow starter” to being ready to fire on most all cylinders when the season begins? I mean, technically we are at the midway point aren’t we? To me a slow starter should work out to 10-15 games, not 1/2 a season.
Harrumph
I hate on McBain a lot, but to be fair, he was recovering from a shoulder injury through most of the summer and didn’t get to workout or practice for too long. Still, like you’ve said, it’s over half way into the season and there is little improvement from last year.
another
Short sighted comment by the #1 fan of the Carolina Hurricanes AHL affiliate. The best players in Charlotte want NHL ice time more than winning the Calder Cup. They are, hopefully called up to provide the team with prospects that develop under true NHL conditions. To call their use grasping at straws is a clear misunderstanding of why they are in Charlotte. Only journeymen should be counted on to be in the Queen City without a chance of call ups. Thanks for not calling me an idiot this time.
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
by Caniac233 on Jan 8, 2012 7:05 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Dear #1CheckersFan
Your “team” exists to warehouse Hurricanes. Period.
The Condor. #63.
by DidJussiThat? on Jan 9, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Copy paste from the game thread
- Muller needs to be asked why he skated the team this morning. He’s made a few dumb decisions in the past week (Staal and LaRose in the shootout anyone?) and this was one of them. The legs were clearly gone at the start, and once you go down against Nashville, you are down.
- Those line combinations are atrocious and I am surprised at some of the decisions. I can kind of accept Dalpe being sent down, but he needs to be up here. Bowman’s demotion was a terrible decision and I am awestruck that it happened. What did Dwyer do exactly? Did he play more than 5 minutes, because I didn’t see him?
I don’t know what was wrong with the lines before. We lost a couple close games and one game by Pittsburgh and we go and change everything. We were on a nice little points run with Dalpe/Staal/Tlusty and Jokinen/Ruutu/Poni. Then we send down Bowman and Dalpe so that we can put Sutter and Dwyer in the line-up (yeah, great improvement huh?) and now we have a terrible first line with our only three forwards on it, a terrible second/third line that is really a borderline fourth line, minus Sutter, and two fourth lines that don’t grind well or play defense well. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. I think Skinner is back Tuesday. He’s out of the no-contact jersey and traveled, so he is close. We need these lines:
Poni/Staal/Dalpe
Skinner/Jokinen/Ruutu
Bowman/Sutter/LaRose
Tlusty/Dwyer/Stewart
I wanted LaRose on the fourth line but we need a fourth line center and Dwyer at the same time, so this is what I see working. Trade Brent and Nodl for picks. If Skinner is not back, put Poni on the 2nd line, Tlusty up with Staal, and Nodl on the fourth.
- LaRose and Poni took two completely stupid penalties that led to goals. Three offensive zone penalties led to goals.
- Harrison got two goals, but he and Faulk were out there for the last four goals. Those were the four powerplay goals, so you won’t see that in the plus/minus, but that is just inexcusable.
- Peters was better, but he was still weak. That first goal should have been a save. Weber has a bomb, when when you have no screen and plenty of time to react, that should not be in the back of the net. I can’t blame this game on him at all though.
- This team is softer than a mites team out there. Jokinen got scared after being lightly bumped by Weber for the rest of the game. McBain shied away from all contact…again. Gleason reverted to his invisible self. Allen didn’t do much, but that may be due to his broken nose. Dwyer and LaRose do not work well on the 3rd line together…both too small. Ruutu has reverted to his non-hitting self after being put with Staal.
Basically, this game was terrible.
It seems like when Peters is in goal the team just plays a different game. Maybe they think it’s a lost cause so for the most part they just mail it in. It is a long season.
Remember the last Peters start was that ugly 52-SOG barrage vs. Pittsburgh.
by drifterscape on Jan 8, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
I think Peters is a fine man. He is not an NHL calibre goalie. (And can someone tell why Boucher is out? I new he got injuried in practice, but never saw what injury was).
I think Staal needs to get his proverbial head out of his backside. He was in front of the net on 2 occasions last night and the puck was at his feet. He didn’t even see it, nor was he looking for the pass. He in no way wants to put his head down when he’s in the slot. Soft. In the corners, he’s a beast.
The 36, 15, 12 experiment ain’t working. Nothing has worked consistently. I don’t think putting a healthy Mario Lemieux next to him would get Eric back.
Harrumph
Peters tries his best, but he is just too jittery for me. He needs to learn to calm down and keep his positioning. He does this well to start games, but as the games go on, he starts to revert to an unorthodox style.
I think Staal is fine. He was one of the best forwards last night. You also have to realize that Suter and Weber make up one of the best defensive pairings in the league. I would probably say the best at the moment. This was a game where you need secondary scoring, but there wasn’t any. I don’t like him with Jokinen and Ruutu though. Jokinen is too soft and slow for the first line. As I said in my post, every time he looked up and saw Weber he was throwing the puck away. I don’t know about Ruutu but I feel he was "overpowered’ by Staal. He works better when it’s him battling in the corners and in front of the net, but there is where Staal spends much of his time. Tlusty and Dalpe are both big, fast wingers with scoring talent, and having them on Staal’s line opened up a lot of ice for him to do what he does best – shooting. With Ruutu and Jokinen, that wasn’t happening.
Boucher LBI
They haven’t been more specific than lower body. It was significant – the video from Calgary showed him helped off the ice with a skater on either side, looking like he could put no weight on the leg and in extreme pain. I would guess something groin or knee related. Not an easy thing to heal.
Twitter @HMof2
by Carolyn Christians on Jan 8, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I see your obviously very frustrated with Staal right now and he has had a horrible year, but damn. The guy has been a PPG player since Muller has taken over, while playing with some under-skilled linemates. No other player has been over 0.75 PPG in that time.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
by PackPride17 on Jan 8, 2012 2:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes, he’s getting points. He is just not the same dynamic player. The “sit on the seat of my chair and watch him skate up ice w/ the puck” player is not anywhere to be seen. I did not buy into the “he’s bummed about Marc” scenario. I think he’s gun shy from that big hit he took against Pittsburgh last year when he was laid out on the ice in front of the net. I think he even missed a game. He has been very hesitant to go to that area of ice since. He’s not looking down for the puck in open ice. He is not looking for the pass.
Staal is one of my fav players. After last years tremendous year, I felt sure this would be another great one.
Harrumph
How much of this is on JR?
While the coaching and players have taken much of the criticism for this season, it appears more & more this is majority on JR & PK. Let’s just look at some of the moves made.
Resigning both LaRose & Dwyer – poor move. Keeping one would have been fine, but there was no need for both with the prospects we had to fill one of those roster spots.
Not resigning Cole – a negative move. Not resigning Cole to a crazy contact wasn’t the bad decision, but failing to replace him was.
Signing Stewart & Poni – not a significant move. Getting those guys for the 3rd or 4th line would be ok, but not as a replacement for Cole.
Signing Kaberle – bad move. He didn’t spend money for a 1st line winger and he didn’t address the other need of a shutdown defenseman, but he did overpay for an aging offensive-only defenseman.
Signing Brent – yet to be determined move. He hadn’t been bad, but he hadn’t been really good either.
Trading Kaberle – great move. This was a great move that wouldn’t have had to be made if not for the previous bad move. At least he corrected one mistake.
Sending Bowman down – poor move. Not sure who’s decision this was, but it was the wrong one. He had proved to be a productive player and has some size that this team is lacking. Yet they down reward his effort and send him down for a small player coming off an injury.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
by PackPride17 on Jan 8, 2012 2:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
JRs mistakes, and he has to be regretting them now, were the 2 expensive lengthy contracts to Staal and Ward. I understand why he did it and I would have done the same. 06’ and ‘07 they looked like franchise anchors that you can build a team around, and the type of players that teams like the Whalers/Canes in markets like Raleigh would typically lose. Now, with both players having disasterous seasons, they are contracts that are just handcuffing the team. Neither player is earning their current salary, and neither contract is very movable. I’m not saying they should necessarily be moved, but even if they wanted to it will be difficult to find a partner.
Ward and Staal
I think Jim Rutherford is quite satisfied with the contracts for Ward and Staal. Ward is having a very poor year for him, but for most teams, they’d be delighted to have a goalie playing to this level. Ward will rebound, I feel certain. Staal, too, had a ton on his mind, including trying to keep the team from imploding under Maurice. Once Muller came and changed some things, Staal is back to being Staal. Staal is an elite player; but he gets blamed for not being a generational player.
The more the young kids can develop and take away the need for Staal to feel he has to singlehandedly win every game, the better he will play. Muller probably can do his most good for Staal in teaching him how to lead by effort and body language.
I still believe Staal & Ward are players you can build a franchise around. The problem is that PK & JR haven’t built around those players. They have never really gone out to get another 1st line player for Staal to play with. And they have never put together a defense to help out Ward. Instead of building around these players as they should have, they have used these players as crutches. They expect them to prop up the rest of an under-skilled players.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
by PackPride17 on Jan 10, 2012 6:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
the canes
I love the team but just like most I feel we need another first line winger like the preds got last deadline in Fisher. I also Can’t wait for bouch to get back. Maybe trade Mcbain for another allen like shot blocking defense man to help our net minders. I’m the fan looking forward to next year so let’s play some prospects. When skins comes back I’d like to see
Staal, dalpe, jussi
Ruutu, bowman, skins
Sutter, tlusty, Dwyer/ larose
Brent, nodl, Stewart
U could flip bowman and jussi depending on current play
by jerry6racing on Jan 8, 2012 3:06 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Staal and Neal
Pens announced that both Staal and Neal will miss significant time with injuries. Staal has knee issues and Neal a broken foot.
Somehow the Pens always manage to get through injuries but they are dropping in the standings and now are in a battle for 8th. Add them to the list of teams who may have to make a trade to just stay in the race….. given that they need all their roster players I suspect that it would be for a prospect and/or draft picks.
BTW…. Pens have some excellent prospects in the AHL, Juniors and College. Lots of size and skill. Could be a landing spot for some of Canes veteran forwards.
I would like to think all 29 teams are trade partner targets at one point or another before July 1 or even after. Will JR trade with any current division teams or any of the new Conference D teams? I have no feel for this one way or the other with JR the GM. It would seem this would not matter to him very much, but he may have to pay closer attention because of the competitive scenario with the beasts in Conference D create.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 8, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I guess the biggest issue here might be cap floor for us. I think the Penguins will be able to take on like 6 mil in salary, prorated, more if say Crosby goes on LTIR. We could send them one of our forwards without having to take on salary, but if we worked out some big trade and offered them both Ruutu and Jokinen or something, we’d drop too low, I believe.
Then again, the Penguins are already in 8th place. They are highly unlikely to get Crosby back before the playoffs. It might not be worth it for them to bet the farm on making a run this year.
A few thoughts… I don’t see JR truly embracing a traditional rebuild, mostly because he never has before. We will clearly sell some parts later in the year, but we don’t have a lot of salary to shed, and most of our spare parts aren’t very desirable.
I don’t see JR, for example, dumping both Jokinen and Ruutu, and maybe neither. They are both young, affordable, and good players. Moreover, any return we get won’t replace them. It is worth noting that the Hurricanes don’t draft all that well. Our own first rounder will be good this year, but we have a spotty record in the draft with picks below the top ten. JR would be much better off keeping the talent we have, adding one good rookie in the draft, letting the checkers fill out the depth positions (third line, fourth line), hoping Dalpe turns into a top six player for next year, and hoping Dumolin makes the jump as successfully as Faulk. Maybe Murphy as well.
That way, we could keep a core of Staal, Skinner, Sutter, Faulk, McBain, Pitkanen, Ruutu, Jokinen, Gleason, and add to it our own better prospects (Dalpe, Bowman, Dumolin, Murphy), and hopefully a top six forward in this years draft. Then JR can try and sign a second line center and another veteran defenceman, and we may all the sudden be competitive again.
Boy is there a lot of negative in here.
We get 2 days off until the next game so hopefully a lot can clear by then.
We may get Skinner back (but don’t like seeing Boston and Philly on the schedule this week) – I’d play Joslin and Gleason as a defensive pairing and make sure that these teams know to leave Skinner alone.
Anyway, the big news Friday was the change in divisions/conferences (none due to NHLPA). Keep in mind that we could very well have a lockout or strike at the end of the summer, so JR and Francis need to make sure that they figure out the right strategy for 12-13 as well. Fehr and the NHLPA will play hardball.
Looming
I thought that the failure for the NHLPA to ratify the changes could be a sign of poor positioning by the league or both and a sign that things could go south in a hurry this summer. Additionally, you have to wonder how careful the organ-EYE-zay-shun has been this year regarding player moves and contracts due to the upcoming CBA negotiation. You would think that both groups would see the folly in even flirting with a lockout. However, in the world of the entitled that we live in, it may be an inevitable thing. I hope that hockey (NHL) shows to be different than the NBA and other ridiculous professional enterprises.
"Forget about style; worry about results."
Bobby Orr
I thought I read somewhere...
That it didn’t matter what the NHLPA said, that the NHL itself can go forwards with the changes whether the NHLPA likes it or not…
Ready for the Canes to win the Cup again! :)
As I understand, the NHL was required to get the NHLPA “consent”. The NHLPA did not consent. Lawyers on both sides will give you different meanings of the word so things are at a standstill until something legal happens (court) or until the NHLPA does consent after more talks.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 9, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Laptop overheated when I tried to watch this game and I missed the last two periods. It doesn’t sound like I missed a lot, though. Anyway, I’m trying to watch the replay to track chances and there is no feed showing up. Anyone else with Game Center Live outside teh Carolina or Nashville markets having this issue? The same thing happened to me for the New Jersey game.
www.shutdownline.com
trackingthenhl.wordpress.com
I just returned home from a trip and was able to watch the replay this morning. The game wasn’t as bad as the score. Or as bad as the tone of most of the above posts. The Cliff Notes are: our PK was frightful and their goalie was awesome. Given that it was our B2B, they were home rested and our significant injuries the game was not our worst by any means. If our PK goes 5 for 5 we could have won. I’m curious to read your reaction if you can find a replay.
lots of stuff
Ok here is my list from what I read above:
- if Donald Fehr can ruin hockey he will. The NHLPA not going with the realignment when even the players mostly were for it shows that. So get ready whenever this CBA expries it will be ugly and not sure hockey can over come a second lock out. The NHL may be dead as we know it.
- I think we all love LaRose, I think he is fine on the 3rd line/4th line anything more is too much, other teams best players go around him to easy but on the 3rd-4th line he could be a good player.
- This year shows the vets we still have are getting older quicker and either the young guys are not as good as we were told by the “experts” or not as ready as they had hoped.
- Peters is just not a NHL goalie. Too many rebounds and once he gives up one they seem to keep coming.
- There will be changes, JR will not stand still even if we still will be in the Southeast again next year. I will wait and see what we look like in Feb. before deciding where our future is.
Excellent Statistical Analysis on LaRose http://www.shutdownline.com/hurricanes/statistical-analysis/the-truth-about-chad-larose.html
Here is an excellent statistical analysis on LaRose.
http://www.shutdownline.com/hurricanes/statistical-analysis/the-truth-about-chad-larose.html
Shutdown Line is excellent; and Cory is anything but a LaRose Must Go person.
Thanks for the link. Solid article and it seems Larose is not a knucklehead after all.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 9, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
He is getting the job done, based on where he should truly be playing. Doing better than others who should be pulling more weight on this team. He became a whipping boy mostly because he was over-slotted. There was also some opinion that he and Dwyer were redundant ( I took that stance) but he finds a way to score more than Dwyer, who certainly has his specialty on the PK. If JR wants to move him at the deadline I could see some interest.
LaRose and Knucklehead Penalties
The article is quite well-done. LaRose’s knucklehead penalties are not addressed by that article at all. What is addressed is whether LaRose is a top six forward. Here’s a portion of the article, and really the entire article is excellent:
“Much of the arguments centered around whether or not he should be used in the top-six like he has been for much of this year. Per Hockey Prospectus, the benchmark for top-six scoring is defined as a player who has a even strength scoring rate of 1.8 points per 60 minutes. That may not sound like much, but think about every team’s top-six units. Not all of them are going to consist of 20 goal scorers that put up 50+ points every year and the average scoring rate for them is 1.8 even strength points per 60 minutes. *That said, no matter which way you go by, Chad LaRose does not appear to be a top-six scorer and he never has been, really.” *
So if LaRose is as Cory states, a valid third line forward, how does that measure against the stated desire by Muller for the Hurricanes to move toward a bigger, more physical team? At 5’9" 180 lbs, LaRose is small in size. NHL teams can only have so many 5’9" 180 lb forwards. Is it better to use that roster spot on a highly skilled, waterbug or a grinder?
See http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=610800 for the discussion about the Hurricanes needed to add physicality. I much prefer the kind of physicality that Bowman brings over LaRose. I can’t recall seeing LaRose make a clean, open ice hit. I do see him slam into players at the boards after they have passed the puck which is helpful in terms of wearing out players. LaRose is LaRose. He does some things well and some things poorly. I prefer third line players to be like Sutter and Bowman. I do not like seeing third line players taking offensive zone game killing penalties. I prefer to have well-rounded players on the third line over small, feisty, agitators.
If the Hurricanes are planning on moving Ruutu; and by various media articles that is the plan; then moving LaRose makes sense as well. LaRose is far more easily replaced than Ruutu. A team like Pittsburgh may well want to have LaRose for its playoff run.
Please don’t lift one quote out of context:
Here is one you perhaps forgot to cut and paste:
However, to say that he is part of the problem with the Canes is also false because while LaRose is not a top-six forward, he does do a lot of good things for the Canes and has been one of their better players this season.
Here is another one you perhaps forgot to cut and paste:
LaRose might be out of place on the top-six but discrediting everything else he does is wrong.
And the summary at the end of the article was quite good……..
LaRose is a valuable third line player who a lot of teams would like to have, especially for his low price tag. The key word there is “third liner” because that’s what he is. He is playing in a top-six role because the Canes don’t have anyone better right now. If I had it my way, I would have him playing with Sutter & Dwyer on the third line but Canes have too many bottom-six wingers currently on the roster, so they have to go with who is currently scoring and that guy is LaRose right now. He is versatile, a hard worker and help the team in a lot of ways even if he isn’t putting up points.
These quotes from the article are telling.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 9, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Well, whether they were left out or not doesn’t invalidate AD’s argument. In point of fact they are opinions of the same weight as Dougs. I would add these points:
LaRose scores at the expense of others—when he’s been on top lines both this year and last year, he killed the lines he was on, drained their offense, and let the better players be the focus of the defense. The penalties he takes—which were not covered in the article—both last year and this year have hurt the team. The fact they occur at bad times, and often in the offensive zone don’t add to his value at all.
To look only at LaRose’s scoring, and ignoring the rest of what he does, doesn’t mean he is a valuable piece because he scores more than those not given top six time. The article also makes clear LaRose’s extra scoring this year is also benefitting from PP time.
As AD mentions, LaRose leads the team in hits—when can you or anyone remeber when those hits have led to a puck turnover?? WHen have his hits stopped a forward from moving where he wanted in the offensive zone?? Not much if any at all—why—-because the vast vast majority of his hits occur behind the play: finishing a check on a defensman who has ALREADY moved the puck along. And given LaRose’s size, i haven;t seen any of those defensemen afraid of going back out there and having to fave another LaRose check again.
As Sittler had mentioned, LaRose is really only a good third line player when he is paired with two better players—-and specifically one who has size to offset what Rosie lacks. Rosie and Dwyer together on one line doesn’t work and the line is manhandled. Rosie is really a 4th liner (key word, 4th Liner)who can fill in on the third line.
Not sure why you would consider the quotes from the article more telling than Sittler or AD’s—they are all just opinions of the writers with equal validity. Mine be no different and acknowledges as such. The stats are valid, but to only look at the scoring stats and not to look at the long periods last year and this year when LaRose was placed with Staal or Skinner’s liine and those lines dissappeared offensively, or not to look at his team leading — rating, and his second best team leading — rating this year, not to look at the penalties he’s taken and their results on the game is an incomplete analysis….
So take what analysis or opinion you agree with, because it’s your choice. But it’s not the same as being right or wrong….
The Shutdown Line Article
The article does not address whether LaRose takes knucklehead penalties far too often. The article addresses several issues. One issue whether LaRose is a top six forward. According to the article’s conclusion, the answer is no, LaRose is not a top six forward. Therefore, if indeed LaRose is a third line forward the question is why spend a roster spot on him when Dwyer is an equivalent player for $625,000.00 whereas LaRose will be paid $1.9 million next season.
A further question is whether it makes sense to have two 5’9" 180 lb forwards in the bottom six when the team is trying to get bigger and more physical.
Given the fact that according to Cory at Shutdown Line other teams would want LaRose and given the fact he is easily replaceable it makes sense to trade LaRose while his value is high. The quote above was not taken out of context. It was clearly in context for the point both the author made and which I made about LaRose not being a top six forward.
Yea…….I expect this kind of response from you.
You pulled one quote out of context from an article that you lauded…..saying HERE………SEE THIS, I AM RIGHT about LaRose, the knucklehead (my words not yours exactly). When in fact, you ignored that that article essentially was lauding LaRose and his play to date. Even that Cory considered him one of the BEST players overall on the Canes team to date. I may not fully agree with that last statement myself but it is clear Cory is giving LaRose his due.
It is painfully obvious you will never give LaRose his due for what he does and which the author of the article believes is appropriate and which you brought to our attention. He said bluntly that discrediting LaRose BECAUSE he is assigned to the top 6 is WRONG. I fully agree with the author on this point.
But I am flapping my jaws in vain…….unless you find a “I should have had a V-8” moment, nothing anyone says will change your belief that the fairly viscous public condemnation of LaRose was justified.
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 10, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
When is JR going to start making moves?
I think it is obvious that this team needs to add AT LEAST another top 6 player. But after looking at the UFA list this season, I really don’t see a lot of options there. Let’s take a quick look at some UFA forwards:
Zach Parise – would Parise even consider Carolina and would PK fork over the money needed to get him?
Alexander Semin – would JR be able to afford this guy and would he even want him?
Dustin Penner – he got high 20 goal potential, but he appears to be a “project” as of now.
Ray Whitney – he knows the organization, but he is not a long-term solution.
Andrei Kostitsyn – he got 20+ goal potential, but he is somewhat in the same boat as Semin.
Ales Hemsky – he’s a pretty decent player when healthy, but when is he healthy for any stretch?
Brad Boyes – he’s got goal scoring potential, but is a “project” that could cost a lot and fail.
Jaromir Jagr – I think I have a better shot at suiting up for the Canes.
Shane Doan – not likely to come here and is on the older side.
David Jones – decent player, but is he really a top 6 winger?
So the question becomes when is JR going to make a move to improve this team’s top 6 forwards?
So the question becomes; when & where is JR going to find another top 6 player for this team? A high draft pick could yield someone, but it might take a couple of seasons for them to round into form. Some of our prospects look decent, but do any really look to be able to give a bunch of production. I’m just wanted to know that JR is not going to stand pat and except this product. I want him to make some moves to improve the team and it’s getting more & more frustrating to see nothing happening.
Sorry for the rant, I guess I just need to get it out of my system.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
Parise – I’d take him in a heartbeat. Kostitsyn and Boyes – I wouldn’t hate on it and they may could fit.
I’d say no to everyone else especially Hemsky and Semin.
"I'm not going to waste my time with Tuukka Rask" - Cam Ward
About a month ago, when I knew this season was lost, I initially thought that JR would use some combination of his current assets (UFA and perhaps in-system prospects plus some picks) for that #1 winger. I am not sure that can happen now with the assets he has and the demands being made by teams who “got them”. Hard to crystal ball this with any confidence but it seems the more likely the early efforts by JR will be to trade most of his current UFA in return for good prospects and high picks. He is going to have to take back salary to keep above the floor. As he bundles these assets (and there will be a lot of these assets that he will pick up) he then sets himself up to do some real horse-trading for that #1 winger and perhaps a top 4 shutdown D-man just before or at the draft. What he misses, he picks up after July 1. I hope this is wrong but it just seems timing is off for meaningful trades.
Saying all that……..more desperate teams are being added to the trade list every day. Opportunity abounds!
When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Sun Tzu circa 4th Century BC
by hurricanefever on Jan 9, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Just need to sell off Gleason, Allen, Ruutu, Poni, and LaRose (while at high value) then tank the rest of the season. Nail Yakupov or Mikhail Grigorenko are better options immediately next year than any of these except Parise who will be the hottest commodity on the market.
I think as far as Rentals go:
Ruutu – 1st + mid-level prospect or elite prospect + 2nd
Gleason – low 1st or 2nd + high-end prospect
Allen – 2nd or 3rd + decent prospect
LaRose – 3rd + decent prospect
Poni – 3rd
That is a good number of assets (especially Ruutu/Gleason return). Could easily turn around and deal picks to make the team better now if JR was comfortable with our top-5 pick alone.
Trades and Rentals
I think you are dead on correct in how Jim Rutherford ought to proceed with one exception. I think Rutherford should make a Ruutu exception and work to negotiate an extension with Ruutu’s agent. If Rutherford can sign Ruutu to a three year extension, fantastic; but if not, then I am in agreement 100% with your assessment.
With respect to Gleason, Allen, and Ruutu, because they are free agents, unless one or more sign extensions rather than going into the UFA market, then Jim Rutherford can sign one or more on the open market. I think Yakupov, Girgorenko, Galchenyuk, and Forsberg are all top tier forward prospects. Any one of those four could go in the top two picks.
I agree that Yakupov or Grigorenko would be better options than most of the players on that list, but all that means is that we will be in this same position again next year. I want to see JR make a trade to bring a good, quality player in. If we lose Ruutu and basically replace him with Grigorenko; are we actually gaining anything? Most rookies (unlike Skinner) actually struggle their first year or so. Unless JR actually acquires some more talent, we will probably be in even worse position next season.
Also, I think some of your values are a little high.
Ruutu – might get a low 1st + a prospects + some salary dump
Gleason – a low 1st or high 2nd + a salary dump
Allen – a 3rd
LaRose – a 3rd or 4th
Poni – a 4th or 5th
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
Agree. I would rather get a proven top 6 winger now than hope for Yakupov or Grigorenko to develop into that player.
I personally would like to see JR take a risk, be creative and go get a true NHL 1st liner. I understand we might have to overpay some, but we NEED real, ready help. These are a few players I wouldn’t mind seeing JR trade for:
Bobby Ryan – obviously my first choice. A multiple time 30 goal scorer that is still very young. He would make us a lot more dangerous offensively.
James Neal – he recently broke his foot and will miss some time. Couple that with Pittsburgh’s other injuries and falling in the standing; they might be desperate. He’s a RFA that might be to expensive for the Penguins next season. Would they take Ruutu and a prospect for Neal? They receive immediate help and we pick up a 1st line winger for next season. We could also still make a pitch for Ruutu in the summer.
Chris Stewart – another RFA on a team heading toward the playoffs. St. Louis is a financially troubled team and maybe Ruutu could help with their playoff push. Stewart is a true power forward that could score 30. And again, we could still try and get Ruutu back in the summer.
Mike Cammalleri – a different type than the others listed, but still a quality player. He’s a 25 – 30 goal scorer that would work well with Staal. He pricey, but he’s proven and might welcome getting out of the pressure-cooker of Montreal. And the Habs might be willing to get rid of his contact.
These are just a few players I think the Canes should look to acquire. Add a top draft pick and at least we start looking like we can field a legitimate top 6.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
by PackPride17 on Jan 9, 2012 6:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The ugly reality is “normal” trades don’t happen at this point in the season. Except for the trade deadline deals of UFAs for prospects and draft choices. JR has to get the best return on our group of desirable UFAs in the next 47 days. Sooner isn’t necessarily better either. This team doesn’t change until closer to the deadline and doesn’t get better from the trades that do occur this season. But that does not preclude rants of any type or motive. Passion is good.
1.Parise(i wish)
2.Boyes
3.Jones
4.Penner
Parsie with Staal & Skinner would be sweet ,but doubtful as he will go to the highest bidder ,if he don’t resign with the Devils who are in the same shape as the Canes in top 6 talent ,the rest would come close with other ’throw in" players coming back ,as theCanes are close to the floor ,and $$$ would have to match in a player for player trade.
The Ice will be crowed in Charlotte next year with Rask and Hoffman coming up ,so who’s stayin and goin there is a puzzle in itself ,and if a trade(s) come this year i’d say some forwards in Charlotte will be trade sweetners to clear roster spots there.
Parise
One wildcard in the decison-making on Parise is the fact that Parise knows MacLean and Muller. IF, which is an enormous if, Karmanos will go for a higher budget, Parise might well want to play with Staal, Skinner, and the 1st round pick, with Muller and MacLean as the coaches, as long as the money is right. The Hurricanes would have to pay a huge salary, but Parise is worth it.
Parise would be an unbelievable option, but trust me; Carolina is not going to be in his final 5 if he becomes a UFA. The Devils will be up there, so will Minnesota; then it will probably be whichever teams have the best shot of competing for a Cup. He will probably also get a deal that pays him around $9 million for the first couple of seasons and goes down after that (to help with the cap hit). These things make Carolina a very unlikely option.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
When I say $9 million, I’m talking about actual salary. Sort of like how Kovalchuk will make $11 million next season, but his cap hit will only be $6.67 million.
Staal & Dalpe; The New Dynamic Duo or The Canes Crusaders!
by PackPride17 on Jan 9, 2012 6:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Just Wondering
OK, haven’t really commented on the actual games, lines, team decisions lately. Because I’m confused. Mullers got to try some things, and frankly is inexperienced as a coach. But I do not like some of the line choices, nor the prospect decisions. To Whit:
LaRose and Dwyer on the same line with Sutter—a “defensive shutdown” line with ZERO size? A “Shutdown” line with a —17 Forward on it? They got creamed.
Sending Bowman down? Size, speed, puck handling (brings the puck up ice nicely), defensively responsible, decent scoring ability for a third liner…. A Team need to develop home grown talent. A team need to assess the NHL ability and future of our home grown talent? A player with only a —3 rating?
Sending Dalpe down was required. OK got that. And truthfully he had a 50/50 showing. SOmetimes good, sometimes not so good. ABout what you’d expect from a prospect, but agains, see Bowman comments. This guys need serious NHL time to either develop and see if he will stick and have an ability to score or not. If he can’t cut it by the end of the year, then we’ll know. We need more trades, FA acquisitions or draft forwards. But, to leave him and Boychuck in the AHL now…. zero playoff chance?? Dumb dumb dumb.
So why? These moves all make no sense?? Especially on the prospect side. We have room under the cap to sit multiple players. But we are a budget team. I know JR makes the decisions, but PK sets the budget. Does Muller get much say? Are PK’s restrictions on the budget so harsh that we will NOT pay to sit vets?? We MUST send the prospects down instead of maybe rotating them in and out with other players going to the press box? We are not in any way posssible going to turn around and even if we play better than a President Cup winners point pace the rest of the year going to make the playoffs.
So why? Why aren’t we doing what most teams in the NHL do and play their prospects? Why don’t we use the homegrown talent and see what we’ve got?
I’m really miffed about this issue.
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